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Hi allI was just wondering if I was to buy the Houdini jacket would it work as a rain coat or should I still carry my Frog togg for those heavy rains. Hope to be on the AT in the south for 2 to 3 wks in May and know it can get wet and cold. Does any body have experience with this coat pro or con. Thanks
Berserker
08-26-2016, 12:28
The Houdini is rain resistant, so basically it will shed small amounts of water such as drizzle. Anything more than a little drizzle or a short burst of rain will wet it out. So I'd still carry the Frogg Toggs. I use a Houdini primarily as a wind breaker and love it by the way.
saltysack
08-26-2016, 12:29
Great for what it is intended for WIND.....love mine but usually layer over an OR helium 11 or Driducks if expecting rain...
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MuddyWaters
08-26-2016, 13:25
Maybe in the desert....
Wind jackets wet out fast, especially when start sweating, which happens when no longer breathes due to external moisture, then it clings like a wet T-shirt and freezes you because thin material has no body to it.
chknfngrs
08-26-2016, 13:31
No experience but those that use it love it for its weight and wind resistance. Not for rain. But, consider that no matter what you wear, you'll wet yourself eventually. No matter how waterproof
swisscross
08-26-2016, 13:32
I have used mine in some pretty substantial downpours and have been quite pleased.
Granted, I also use an umbrella.
Cold temps would be the deal breaker.
Just Bill
08-26-2016, 14:41
The Alpine Houdini may be a good middle ground... got one for my wife as the Houdini is a bit light for her. Though she hasn't used it enough for me to comment much.
Personally I have an M10 (2.5layer WPB) already for cooler three season and winter and the plain Houdini for summer and warmer three season as my switch point.
When brand new- you can get an hour or so out of the DWR on the Houdini. After a decent season though they will wet out in 10 minutes of decent rain.
But they dry fast so I tend to use it on it's own in temps 55 and up even in the rain when moving. If I was sitting around much outside my shelter- I bring the full shell up to 65-70.
Puddlefish
08-26-2016, 18:41
I also use one with an umbrella. Generally one arm gets soaked. Any other little splashes end up drying out within a few minutes.
saltysack
08-26-2016, 22:37
The Alpine Houdini may be a good middle ground... got one for my wife as the Houdini is a bit light for her. Though she hasn't used it enough for me to comment much.
Personally I have an M10 (2.5layer WPB) already for cooler three season and winter and the plain Houdini for summer and warmer three season as my switch point.
When brand new- you can get an hour or so out of the DWR on the Houdini. After a decent season though they will wet out in 10 minutes of decent rain.
But they dry fast so I tend to use it on it's own in temps 55 and up even in the rain when moving. If I was sitting around much outside my shelter- I bring the full shell up to 65-70.
Wonder is any of the gear wash or dwr washes would help?
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b-square
08-27-2016, 09:58
Go with the Frogg Toggs - you are gonna wet out with the Houdini. Also in my opinion there is no situation on a long hike that you would need both FT and the H.
But like everything else, everybody's got an opinion. HYOH
saltysack
08-27-2016, 10:09
Go with the Frogg Toggs - you are gonna wet out with the Houdini. Also in my opinion there is no situation on a long hike that you would need both FT and the H.
But like everything else, everybody's got an opinion. HYOH
I used to think that until I tried as part of my layering system...breathes waaaay better than frogg toggs or in my case OR helium 11.
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Thanks I think Ill get one appreciate everyones help
Secondmouse
09-02-2016, 15:48
personally, I think you should have both. a wind shirt is not a rain jacket but when you need a wind shirt, it's sooooo nice to have...
Wonder is any of the gear wash or dwr washes would help?
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Yup, that's why they make DWRs to reapply. It DOES make a difference especially if reapplied as directed using a high quality DWR. A great DIY DWR: https://www.mcnett.com/gearaid/durable-waterproofing#36221 Some would argue that applying this on a wind jacket or wind pants that previously had a DWR from the factory that has degraded hampers breathability to the point of a no-go. I'm not of that opinion.
The reg Patagonia Houdini Jacket absolutely does wet out though. Gotta know the difference between a wind jacket verse a true rain jacket.
personally, I think you should have both. a wind shirt is not a rain jacket but when you need a wind shirt, it's sooooo nice to have...
And, with something like a Patagonia Houdini Jacket or Montbell Tachyon Jacket at a wispy sub 2 - 3 oz balling up to a tennis ball….Nice to have a UL/SUL true rain jacket in the sub 6-7 oz category AND a 2-3 oz wind shirt having the versatility of both individually or paired together can be soooo nice.
I use my Frogg Toggs as a wind shirt and a rain jacket. I carried the Houdini for awhile too but found I could get double duty from the rain jacket so I sent it home.
FlyFishNut
09-02-2016, 18:31
I've thought about the Houdini as a trail running jacket to wear or bring in a light rain or windy situation - but when I will only be out for a few hours or a long day. I don't think I'd depend on it for anything more than this.
saltysack
09-02-2016, 18:39
And, with something like a Patagonia Houdini Jacket or Montbell Tachyon Jacket at a wispy sub 2 - 3 oz balling up to a tennis ball….Nice to have a UL/SUL true rain jacket in the sub 6-7 oz category AND a 2-3 oz wind shirt having the versatility of both individually or paired together can be soooo nice.
You mentioned pairing the 2 pieces a few years back....at the time I thought it was redundant until I tried it! The Houdini is one of my favorite pieces for all around use and layers great for colder weather under my helium 2 lite wt rain shell.
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You mentioned pairing the 2 pieces a few years back....at the time I thought it was redundant until I tried it! The Houdini is one of my favorite pieces for all around use and layers great for colder weather under my helium 2 lite wt rain shell.
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I just went on some hikes in oregon including a Oregon PCT section hike using this layering approach. It worked well allowing the Marmot Mica(last one I'm buying or getting) and then Outdoor Research Helium II and a light wt merino tee on the coast and while night hiking. It's worth considering as a better alternative to break up the wt and bulk of a single 10 oz true rain jacket into these two components with a similar wt and bulk.
What I think this can do is bring greater usage of apparel i.e; more ozs, more bulk that isn't so often dead wt or as rarely used. Furthering that process each or both pieces can add to a sleep system - worn as sleep wear, over footwear to sleep on as a pillow, under insulation, spread out as a small place to store stuff on as one camps/stops, etc. It also may allow one to bring a lower wt lower bulk next to skin layer i.e; lighter wt tee, perhaps a short sleeved verse LS, etc. If concerned throw in some extremity accessories of UL wt. i.e; beanie, running gloves, extra pr socks, etc. All this snowballs. Think runner perhaps ultra runner but you don't have to run unless you're Jurek. Unsupported FKTers have been doing this for awhile. Fast and light - OK maybe. But how about just lighter? Recognize the possible rewards of that alone. I know many do. I know I do.
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You mentioned pairing the 2 pieces a few years back....at the time I thought it was redundant until I tried it! The Houdini is one of my favorite pieces for all around use and layers great for colder weather under my helium 2 lite wt rain shell.
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I had the same mental journey. Absolutely love the Houdini, and now take it as well as an EMS 2.5 jacket. Gives me just the Houdini (cold wind), just the rain jacket (rain above 45F or so), or both (nasty rain in the 30's). I will stipulate that I tend to hike the Whites, so the potential for extreme weather makes it easy to justify carrying both.
cmoulder
09-03-2016, 05:31
And, with something like a Patagonia Houdini Jacket or Montbell Tachyon Jacket at a wispy sub 2 - 3 oz balling up to a tennis ball….Nice to have a UL/SUL true rain jacket in the sub 6-7 oz category AND a 2-3 oz wind shirt having the versatility of both individually or paired together can be soooo nice.
The problem with the Montbell Tachyon is that it is not breathable at all... totally clammy in about 5 minutes if doing any exercise at all. Far better IMO is the Montbell Dynamo, which is very similar to the Houdini and is far more useful, and the next step beyond that is the Montbell Versalite which is similar to, but MILES better than, the OR Helium II because it has a better hood, better fit, hand pockets, adjustable cuffs and pit zips, and weighs about the same... mine was actually a bit lighter.
Hi allI was just wondering if I was to buy the Houdini jacket would it work as a rain coat or should I still carry my Frog togg for those heavy rains. Hope to be on the AT in the south for 2 to 3 wks in May and know it can get wet and cold. Does any body have experience with this coat pro or con. Thanks
As others have mentioned, no, the Houdini is a wind jacket and only offers minimal water resistance as a bonus, as opposed to a rain shell which is "water proof." If you are expecting rain, you will need a rain jacket. If you are expecting cool mornings with lots of wind, this is where a wind shell such as the Houdini would come in. If it happens to be a little misty for a few moments, a wind shell will work, however, once it starts raining, you had better pull out a rain jacket if you want to stay dry.
Yes, there is the argument that a rain shell is less breathable, so you sweat inside, and still get wet, but that was not your question. To answer your question, in May, carry both. May can still be quite cold, and you do not want to get hypothermia from being wet.
And as others mention, there are a number of wind jackets to choose from. I personally use a North Face Verto (https://sticksblog.com/clothing/jackets/the-north-face-verto-wind-jacket/). It has been my go-to for a few years now. It is less breathable than some, such as the Houdini, but this is where personal preference comes into play. I had the last good version of the Houdini (2012 model - the models after this year was all less breathable) and ended up selling it because it was too breezy, not to mention almost twice as heavy as my Verto. For me, I wanted a wind shell to block ~90% of the wind, and the Houdini let it all right in. Saying that, if I were in the market for a wind jacket today, I would go with the ZPacks wind jacket (http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/wind_shell.shtml).
saltysack
09-03-2016, 08:59
The problem with the Montbell Tachyon is that it is not breathable at all... totally clammy in about 5 minutes if doing any exercise at all. Far better IMO is the Montbell Dynamo, which is very similar to the Houdini and is far more useful, and the next step beyond that is the Montbell Versalite which is similar to, but MILES better than, the OR Helium II because it has a better hood, better fit, hand pockets, adjustable cuffs and pit zips, and weighs about the same... mine was actually a bit lighter.
Agree on the tachyon....I tried it. Reminded me of a weight loss jacket, trash bag. Love the Houdini....haven't tried the versatile but the helium has worked perfectly for ME......best part out it.....it was free.....[emoji16]
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The problem with the Montbell Tachyon is that it is not breathable at all... totally clammy in about 5 minutes if doing any exercise at all. Far better IMO is the Montbell Dynamo, which is very similar to the Houdini and is far more useful, and the next step beyond that is the Montbell Versalite which is similar to, but MILES better than, the OR Helium II because it has a better hood, better fit, hand pockets, adjustable cuffs and pit zips, and weighs about the same... mine was actually a bit lighter.
Interesting take that you consider the wispy 7 d MB Tachyon JACKET(w/ the full zip, not the anorak version) w/ the same higher quality Polkatex DWR as the 12 d Dynamo JACKET less breathable. I'm not sure if the Tachyon has gone through different versions but my Tachyon JACKET also has more open mesh fabric panels under each armpit. I've only had this one MB Tacyhon Jacket and I've never owned or demoed a Dynamo Wind Jacket.
I'm on my second MB Versalite Jacket. Just bought a new one. This is my second OR Helium II and I had two Helium I's. Agree with the Versalite being a more breathable more fully featured (but still low wt) Helium comparison. Isn't it so nice to have more ways to dump heat with a jacket verse an anorak or with the Versalite verse the Helium.
The problem with the Montbell Tachyon is that it is not breathable at all... totally clammy in about 5 minutes if doing any exercise at all. Far better IMO is the Montbell Dynamo, which is very similar to the Houdini and is far more useful,
Well, looking at it from a wt perspective alone I would surely hope jumping up 3-4 oz from a MB tachyon Jacket to a MB Dynamo Jacket should provide some added benefit for the wt increase. I heat up just as fast in my Patagonia Houdini Jacket as the MB Tachyon Jacket though if I do nothing to dump heat. Remember, breathability and ultimate comfort is in the hands of the user and not the gear alone. I believe far far too many offer opinions about breathability that don't take into account user ability and specific scenarios of use.
Well, looking at it from a wt perspective alone I would surely hope jumping up 3-4 oz from a MB tachyon Jacket to a MB Dynamo Jacket should provide some added benefit for the wt increase. I heat up just as fast in my Patagonia Houdini Jacket as the MB Tachyon Jacket though if I do nothing to dump heat. Remember, breathability and ultimate comfort is in the hands of the user and not the gear alone. I believe far far too many offer opinions about breathability that don't take into account user ability and specific scenarios of use.
I totally agree... While some materials are not as "breathable" as others, that is not the only method of ventilation... As I said, my Verto does block more wind than my Houdini, which is why I got rid of the Houdini. When wind is really kicking, and it's cold, I can zip the Verto up, and benefit from it keeping me a little warmer... If I start to sweat, I simply unzip and pull the hood down and the wind will take care of any ventilation/cooling down that I need. With the Houdini, it wasn't so though... Even zipped up, wind would still blow right through that thing. But, as you point out, it's about the user, and the user's need. People like different things. To me though, the less breathable Verto made more sense... plus, it was much lighter! :)
I have the Houdini, it wet out on me after a 20 minute drizzle.
saltysack
09-08-2016, 09:50
I have the Houdini, it wet out on me after a 20 minute drizzle.
How old? Been washed allot? I wash mine yearly with a good wash in dwr....seems to help.
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Not said yet that should be known is something like the Pat Houdini Jacket at a sub 4 oz for a wind jacket and certainly something like the sub 2 oz MB Tachyon is these pieces are light wt to UL to SUL. Some TLC is in order using these as an outer shell/shirt, not getting fabric caught in a zipper(I put small holes in a Pat Houdini sleeve this way), not handling the zipper roughly, not going off trail through briars/saplings with pointy nubs, etc. Observed The pat Houdini being used quite often on the PCT from PCT thru-hikers. When I looked many different people had holes in the sleeves of their Houdini or Tachyon jackets.
JumpMaster Blaster
09-09-2016, 09:48
Great for what it is intended for WIND.....love mine but usually layer over an OR helium 11 or Driducks if expecting rain...
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Why wouldn't you just use your rain jacket as a wind breaker too? Why carry both?
saltysack
09-09-2016, 14:14
Why wouldn't you just use your rain jacket as a wind breaker too? Why carry both?
I used to do that but find the 3 oz hooded wind shirt/jacket for cooler weather is a great in between layer. Actually about same weight to wear a UL s/s t-shirt with wind shell than a l/s button up shirt and way more versatile. Really just another more breathable light weight layer that breathes better when worn alone. Since the dog almost always hikes with me having both jacket layers keeps him warm in his bag when it's under about 40*....lighter than me carrying his fleece bag liner and multi purpose....his diy sleeping bag is Costco down vest that I sewed up the waist and arm holes. Only warm to about 40* so I add both wind and rain shell over top helps allot....don't knock it till you try it......
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JumpMaster Blaster
09-09-2016, 19:13
I used to do that but find the 3 oz hooded wind shirt/jacket for cooler weather is a great in between layer. Actually about same weight to wear a UL s/s t-shirt with wind shell than a l/s button up shirt and way more versatile. Really just another more breathable light weight layer that breathes better when worn alone. Since the dog almost always hikes with me having both jacket layers keeps him warm in his bag when it's under about 40*....lighter than me carrying his fleece bag liner and multi purpose....his diy sleeping bag is Costco down vest that I sewed up the waist and arm holes. Only warm to about 40* so I add both wind and rain shell over top helps allot....don't knock it till you try it......
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Hmm, I just might do that, but I'm going to use a "repurposed" wind shirt/jacket (Army issue) before I drop some coin on a new one. I think the breathability issue comes to play using just a rain jacket, but I didn't have much of an issue using the Marmot Precip as a wind break layer. The OR Helium II? Sweatbox.
What temps would make you ditch the windshirt in favor of a synthetic puffy or light down jacket?
saltysack
09-09-2016, 19:54
Hmm, I just might do that, but I'm going to use a "repurposed" wind shirt/jacket (Army issue) before I drop some coin on a new one. I think the breathability issue comes to play using just a rain jacket, but I didn't have much of an issue using the Marmot Precip as a wind break layer. The OR Helium II? Sweatbox.
What temps would make you ditch the windshirt in favor of a synthetic puffy or light down jacket?
I've never hiked in my down jacket...coldest I've hiked in is about 10-15*.......I don't get cold on the move typically. Only put down on during extended breaks or sleep. This combo with wind jacket under a OR Helium 11 would be plenty sufficient for me....
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