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Shrewd
08-30-2016, 17:39
Hey all,

I'm planning on a '17 thru and have been having some issues with my current pack, a Dueter act zero 50+15

its a decent pack and I got it for a good price, but it causes my traps to ache. I've since fussed with the adjustments, got measured at an outfitter, and came back and adjusted again.

today I took my pup for a 2 hour hike and it felt better, certainly bearable, but still not overly comfortable.

so my question is: is a bit of ache normal? I'll just get used to it? Maybe I'm being a baby, burnt hear people mentioning all the time how their osprey/ula/zpacks feels great and they can go all day.

I tried on a few Ospreys and they felt really good. I can't remember the model but it was a larger pack in dark green with orange trim. Of course any pack feels good for a few minutes. The 2nd was an Exos 58, which I really liked the look of but unfortunately they didn't have my size (I'm a 19 inch torso with a 38ish waist)


sonwhat hat are your thoughts, keepers of wisdom?

Flounder940
08-30-2016, 17:43
How much does the gear you are loading into it weigh?

Shrewd
08-30-2016, 18:10
I haven't weighed it, but I'd guess it's around 30 at the moment.

right now it isn't loaded for a trip, I just moved and roughly shoved about 30 pounds of crap into it, but it felt the same as my last weekend trip, which was a well packed and luxurious 30

oh and the first osprey pack that felt really good was the atoms again 65

Miles 2 Go
08-30-2016, 18:13
Are you carrying most of your pack weight through your hip belt? My shoulder straps really don't carry much of my pack weight.

Christoph
08-30-2016, 18:29
You might try to pack it differently to get the load where you want it and where it rests comfortably. I put my tent on the bottom, outside. Inside at the bottom is my bag and clothes bag, then first aid/cleaning, air mattress, and cook kit. Then on top is my food bag and my rain gear on top. I'd think at around 30 pounds loaded, you should be able to be fairly comfortable. There were some days that I just couldn't seem to get it right, but overall this is the best way I've tried to pack my bag where it's comfortable. Maybe just try shifting items around and adjust the heavy part of the load where it's even between hips and shoulders. If it isn't at least somewhat comfortable, on a thru attempt it's more than likely going to be unbearable day after day. Hope this helps and maybe I'll see ya out there next year on my 2nd attempt. :)

Dogwood
08-30-2016, 18:30
I'll take a shot at answering. First male or female? Some females especially new to LD backpacking don't have established/strong enough traps in the upper back to carry 30 + loads. Males can certainly have the same issue though.

Assuming the pack fit is right at the pt of purchase the load can take some time to get used to. Next it may not be the backpack per say but the adjustments made with the loaded pack. Initially, before gaining LD backpacking experience with heavier loads I've found when I placed too much wt on my shoulders because of 1) not transferring enough wt to the hips via my hip belt adjustments i.e.; too loose hip belt 2) over cinching down the shoulder straps 3) over tightening the sternum strap I once had more trapezoid issues.

Next, when I got tired and my hiking form, especially my posture, was not optimal I had trap issues. I would especially lean too far forward on uphills which again put undue strain on my upper back I had trap issues. I suggest you research correct backpacking body form.

Lastly, sounding possibly strange, my spinal alignment wasn't all that great. Since going back to a knowledgable chiropractor and paying attention to footwear which can have impacts on alignment I don't have anywhere near the degree of trap soreness as I once had.

At this stage in my backpacking having gotten significantly stronger as a backpacker and routinely carrying UL/SUL loads I'll remove the hip belt or hike at times with the hip belt uncinched with all the load on my shoulders which is only possible because of being stronger and carrying light loads.

Dogwood
08-30-2016, 18:32
Good pt Christoph makes too. How the load is packed can have an impact on the comfort of handling the load.

MuddyWaters
08-30-2016, 20:29
major nerves run thru traps, thats why they are a pressure point.

even a light pack, bouncing with every step, eventually can make them ache after a long day.

Your pack should rest mostly on hips, and you wont have the problem appear readily, maybe after 10 miles sure.

Ideally....so comfortable you forget you are wearing a pack. Needs to be under about 17 lbs for that thougj.

Shrewd
08-30-2016, 23:24
I'm a 6'3 dude with a fairly wide back. I'd like to think the issue isn't muscle strength, after years of rowing and boxing.

indefinitey have the hip belt cinched tight, and I keep adjusting the torso length on the pack and testing it, without too much luck.

The posture thing is a good point, I'll work on that

amk
08-30-2016, 23:41
Providing the pack is correctly sized/adjusted but you aren't fit, every pack with a certain load after a certain time will cause an ache somewhere, even if at first in does not. Your back supposed to resemble a shield by its shape and be tough. Go for a serious gym for a half of year, you will see the difference.

Uncle Joe
08-30-2016, 23:53
I found Deuters a little uncomfortable compared to Ospreys. I hiked with an Osprey for awhile. Now I have a ULA. For both I had to hike quite awhile to have any bad shoulder discomfort.

Hikingjim
08-31-2016, 08:05
I get this same problem when there is a certain amount of weight on my shoulders over a long period of time. Typically when I go with my daughter or on a really long hike with no resupply and I'm carrying way too much

I think it's just too much weight on the shoulders. Some causes could be pushing your pack weight limit or having a hip belt improperly placed or not properly functioning

Hikingjim
08-31-2016, 08:09
when you put on your pack, if you can't do up the hip belt in such a way where the shoulders straps just rest on your shoulders (no weight), then that is a problem
I transfer some weight to my shoulders, mix things up, etc, but I could easily stroll with little or nothing directly on the shoulders

peakbagger
08-31-2016, 08:55
I think the problem may be 6'3 and wide back. Every pack is designed around a certain size body and I expect you are outside of the 95% percentile. I would be surprised if the pack can be adjusted to your torso length and if the torso length is wrong all the other adjustments are moot. The quick check is loosen up all the straps and put on the pack using the hip belt located over the crest of the hips now snug up the shoulder straps, if the straps can not be adjusted horizontal with the top of your shoulders then the torso length is too short. Generally the straps come up the back and over the shoulders from an anchor point lower in the pack, there should be some smaller straps coming from the pack attached to the shoulder straps at the top of the shoulder, these are the straps that should be roughly horizontal. With wide back and possibly broad neck the suspension may be pulling the shoulder straps to skinny. I have seen one or two packs that can be adjusted for shoulder width but they are very rare.

Mountainsmith used to be known for their overly complicated suspension systems but in the hands of the right packfitter, they could be dialed in to fit just about anyone. I have one of their old 6500 cubinc inch packs and it is a load monster, I could carry a lot more weight than I should have. Sadly Mountainsmith went the way of many high end manufacturers and they are all manufactured in the same Vietnamese factory to fit the average hiker.

DuneElliot
08-31-2016, 09:07
As a female was new to backpacking at one point I didn't have any issues with those muscles starting out with my Arc Haul, but I did notice it when I was carrying a heavy day pack on my shoulders and without a hip belt. While my hip joints and leg muscles complain with the heavier pack, I almost never have back pain (and I've broken my back before). It does seem that you have too much weight on your shoulders...maybe your pack is actually too small if even after adjusting you're still getting this issue

I'd take the advice above and use it; try packing it differently, watch your posture (I notice I have to concentrate on keeping good posture by the end of the day) etc. But at the end of the day, if the pack doesn't feel good while wearing it for a while then you need a new pack; there is no point in being uncomfortable and in pain.

I would disagree that any pack feels good for a few minutes...I tried Osprey packs in the store and didn't like them personally. I have a ULA Circuit that is okay, but just doesn't fit as well as the Arc Haul (modified by me with a thicker lumbar pad) and I don't like how it carries...it made me more tired by the end of the day than the same weight in my Haul.

It sounds to me that unless the minor adjustments work you need to look into getting a new pack. See if you can rent one of the Ospreys locally...the Exos is definitely popular (and lighter) so would venture to say that would probably be a good choice.

Dogwood
08-31-2016, 12:14
when you put on your pack, if you can't do up the hip belt in such a way where the shoulders straps just rest on your shoulders (no weight), then that is a problem…


Here's how I get the wt on my hips. I put on the pack with all straps loosened. I shrug up my shoulders. I FIRST tighten the hip belt with my shoulders shrugged high. I relax my shoulders. The pack my come away from my back a bit but the wt is all on my hips. The pack stays there firmly on my hips. It does not slip down. I then adjust the shoulder straps. Then the serum strap. I do not overly cinch down the shoulder or sternum straps.

Another Kevin
08-31-2016, 12:51
Here's how I get the wt on my hips. I put on the pack with all straps loosened. I shrug up my shoulders. I FIRST tighten the hip belt with my shoulders shrugged high. I relax my shoulders. The pack my come away from my back a bit but the wt is all on my hips. The pack stays there firmly on my hips. It does not slip down. I then adjust the shoulder straps. Then the serum strap. I do not overly cinch down the shoulder or sternum straps.

About the only step I'd add is that after adjusting the shoulder straps, snug up the load lifters until the pack is resting on your clavicles rather than your shoulders. THEN do up the sternum strap.

Some people just do this step once and depend that the load lifters will be the right length thereafter, but nylon webbing stretches enough, particularly in wet weather, that I almost always loosen the load lifters before putting the pack on and then snug them up every time. In wet or really humid weather, I may need to take them in the first time that I shrug up the pack and snug up the hip belt, which I wind up doing often. (That's a familiar enough motion that I can do it while I'm walking.)

Bronk
09-01-2016, 12:21
The most common problem with fitting a pack is having the shoulder straps adjusted incorrectly.

Try this:

There are two sets of straps to adjust on your shoulders. There are the two that you pull down to your hips to tighten the shoulder straps. Most people don't have a problem with those. Then there are two straps to adjust that are behind your head near your ears.

Here's what you do...loosen all of the straps as loose as they will go...including your hip belt. Then put the pack on. Bend over as if you were going to touch your toes...while bent over, snap your hip belt and pull it tight. Now stand up straight. Pull your shoulder straps snug. Now for the tricky part...those two behind your ears. If they are as loose as they go your pack should be falling away from your back...when they are loose all the way your pack shouldn't even be touching your back except at your hips. This leaves all of the weight riding on your hips and none on your shoulders.

Now, find a full length mirror and stand sideways so you can see your pack leaning away from your back. Pull those straps behind your ears until the pack is vertical and just barely touching your back. This centers your gravity and leaves the weight riding on your hips. The problem most people have is they pull these straps as tight as they will go and that moves all the weight from your hips to your shoulders.

Your legs are the biggest muscles in your body. They should be carrying all the weight, not your shoulders.

yaduck9
09-01-2016, 12:38
Hey all,

I'm planning on a '17 thru and have been having some issues with my current pack, a Dueter act zero 50+15

its a decent pack and I got it for a good price, but it causes my traps to ache. I've since fussed with the adjustments, got measured at an outfitter, and came back and adjusted again.

today I took my pup for a 2 hour hike and it felt better, certainly bearable, but still not overly comfortable.

so my question is: is a bit of ache normal? I'll just get used to it? Maybe I'm being a baby, burnt hear people mentioning all the time how their osprey/ula/zpacks feels great and they can go all day.

I tried on a few Ospreys and they felt really good. I can't remember the model but it was a larger pack in dark green with orange trim. Of course any pack feels good for a few minutes. The 2nd was an Exos 58, which I really liked the look of but unfortunately they didn't have my size (I'm a 19 inch torso with a 38ish waist)


sonwhat hat are your thoughts, keepers of wisdom?

seems everyone has covered the bases.............might try checking this out, have not tried this ( yet ), but it is yvon chouinard. There is a small video that explains the logic

i might get around to trying this on a ultralight pack with no frame

http://www.patagonia.com/product/patagonia-tumpline/11685.html

Dogwood
09-01-2016, 13:39
About the only step I'd add is that after adjusting the shoulder straps, snug up the load lifters until the pack is resting on your clavicles rather than your shoulders. THEN do up the sternum strap.

Some people just do this step once and depend that the load lifters will be the right length thereafter, but nylon webbing stretches enough, particularly in wet weather, that I almost always loosen the load lifters before putting the pack on and then snug them up every time. In wet or really humid weather, I may need to take them in the first time that I shrug up the pack and snug up the hip belt, which I wind up doing often. (That's a familiar enough motion that I can do it while I'm walking.)

Good addition. I inadvertently left out the load lifter strap adjustments as most of the UL packs I use don't have them.

To the OP it's not enough that you "indefinitely have the hip belt cinched down." The sequence in which you make the adjustments is important too in having a comfortable carry.

Puddlefish
09-01-2016, 19:01
One additional step I take is that after I tighten the load lifters, I then slightly loosen the shoulder straps. I carry very little weight on my shoulders.