View Full Version : My 2016 Thru Hike - Excessive Slack Packing
TheWhiteWalker
08-31-2016, 19:41
I just finished my 2016 thru hike. It was an awesome experience. All of the people on the trail were friendly and I did not encounter or hear of any issues involving people, just animals. Every thru hiker I encounter did a great job practicing Leave No Trace, which impressed me. So I hate to bring up a negative subject but it is just killing me not to mention it...
I was shocked by the large percentage of young thru hikers (20-26yr old’s) that were slack packing and/or skipping sections. I understand according to the ATC you can slack pack and still be considered a thru hiker… but I highly doubt the ATC ever imagined that young hikers in their prime would abuse this service. I would also ask hikers that were 30-59yrs old and the vast majority would laugh at the thought of slack packing and all noticed the same observation with the young hikers. I will say many of the hostel owners along the trail are shoving the idea of slack packing down everyone’s throat and for some reason the young hikers couldn’t resist. If there was something physically wrong with a hiker or they were 60+ yrs old I could care less if you slack pack, I give you lots of credit just for being out there. It is just SAD and PATHETIC to watch these young “thru hikers” take advantage of slack packing every opportunity they could. I just find it very odd the difference of opinion between the young and older generations on slack packing… are young hikers nowadays just lazy???
I would also see a large percentage of young hikers that would intentionally skip sections, maybe a mile or 2 at a time when leaving town or returning from a hitch and still call themselves thru hikers by improperly using the HYOH... that’s just sad!!!
So for all the current and previous thru hikers who carried their own gear up and down the mountains, I want you to know that a large percentage of the record number of thru hikers that complete the AT this year are cheaters and lazy young slack packers.
I will end my rant with the most overly used saying that the young hikers improperly used to justify their excessive slack packing and section skipping, Hike Your Own Hike!
Please consider putting into practice the ethic embodied in that old Dylan lyric:
"You go your way and I'll go mine."
Congratulations on completing your thru-hike -- I'm considering trying it myself one day.
DuneElliot
08-31-2016, 21:25
I don't think slack-packing means you're not a thru-hiker. You can't judge what was going on with a particular person on a particular day...it sounds very similar to those who judge people with invisible diseases and conditions for parking in the Disabled Parking spots. I'm sure many people would take take advantage of a few days of slack-packing if they could...it makes life, and a short section, a little easier, so why not? Many of the FKT hikers slack-pack...aren't they still thru-hikers?
I also don't see an issue with missing a mile or two, if it's not consistent and at every town stop sine the miles missed would eventually add up to a considerable amount. But also, on another note, many hikers on the PCT are re-routed by major fires with no safe route to walk around and thus skip several miles...are they still thru-hikers? I would consider them to be so. A missed mile here or there shouldn't be the be all and end all of the thru-hiker definition, and while I see your point I am not sure it is up to you to decide or judge these hikers. And I do agree with the HYOH sentiment, so feel free to rant and rage about it if it's frustrating you, but everyone hikes differently and is looking for a different experience and I would call them all thru-hikers!
capehiker
08-31-2016, 21:26
Slack packing caters to all ages. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
jjozgrunt
08-31-2016, 23:36
OK seems HYOH only means if someone else approves of it, seems like a common problem with life in general these days. Starting 12 Mar 2017 and I will be hiking the way I want, regardless of what other people do or think. I plan to do it pack the whole way, pass every blaze and enjoy the walk, BUT if I decide to slack pack, aqua blaze or anything else that should only worry me. I certainly won't be worrying about what other people do or what they call themselves.
imscotty
09-01-2016, 00:21
Whitewalker, since the ATC is the closest thing we have to an authority on this subject, please allow me to quote them...
"ATC policy is to operate on an honor system, assuming that, if you apply for 2,000-miler status, you have madean honest effort to walk the entire Trail—as a thru-hiker or in sections. In the event of an emergency, such as aflood, a forest fire, or an impending storm, blue blazed trails or officially required roadwalks are viablesubstitutes for the white-blazed route. And, while sequence, direction, length of time, or whether you carried apack are not considered, the ATC holds high expectations of 2,000-milers that include treating the naturalenvironment, A.T. communities, other hikers, and our agency partners—whose land the A.T. passes through—with kindness, respect, and cooperation. Respect for these standards by all applicants is essential to thecontinuation of ATC's practice of recognizing end-to-end hikers in any fashion. If you meet these standards,please complete the form below. "
Carrying your own pack (or not) seems to be not part of the definition of '2000 miler' recognition. Really, it is a personal choice. Different hikers have different goals, and I think they should be able to set these goals for themselves without criticism. Observations about generational differences for these goals are interesting and worth discussing, but calling someone who does not share your goals 'lazy' is inflammatory and I think inaccurate. Hiking all day, even without a backpack, would not match most peoples definition of lazy. Live and let live WhiteWalker, if they are enjoying their hike and not doing you any harm, why should you care?
Now as to the skipped miles... going back to the ATC, I think they give some pretty clear guidance there. And as the skipped miles start adding up I think at some point it should become clear to the hiker that their hike really can't be called a tru-hike. Now we can all have fun arguing where that line should lie, but at the extreme there are clearly some people out there fraudulently declaring themselves thru-hikers. I think that says something negative about them, but my feelings on this tend more towards pity than anger.
Congratulations on your achievement. You set a tough goal for yourself and achieved it. You should be proud. But I hope you can look back on this hike and recognize that other people may have had other goals, and hopefully you can support them in hiking the hike they set out to hike. An experience like this that puts people back in touch with nature and themselves is a good thing for us all I think and should be encouraged, whatever the flavor of the hike.
ScareBear
09-01-2016, 08:09
Who are you "competing" against? If you are not "competing", then you would not be complaining about how others hike the AT and whether or not they call themselves "thru hikers". There's no medal, no award, no plaque for completing the AT. The accomplishment is inside of you for getting it done. Its your goal that you set and you accomplished. Why give a darn about how anyone else got it done? Otherwise, you should be rallying against AT record setters who don't really carry a pack and are assisted by support teams and support vehicles, rather than regular hikers who choose to lessen their burden/suffering in order to accomplish THEIR goal. Don't judge others through your life's lenses. Everyone wears different glasses....
I enjoyed at least 6 or 8 full days of slack packing on my hike. And I hiked with only 20 pounds in my pack for the entire first week. It has never occurred to me that I didn't hike the trail. I WISH i had southbound slack packed Moosalauke. That was a beast NOBO and fully loaded. I almost turned around and hiked the other way when I saw that rock wall with the little wooden foot thingies in it. I know someone though who skipped 4 states and still registered as a thru-hiker. I don't want it to bug me because it is her hike- but it does a little. And it makes me a hypocrite. I judge her, and someone else will judge me and call me a section hiker because I skipped 7 miles in the Shenandoahs when I was sick and 7 miles from Madison Hut when we were re-routed down a long trail at night. Truth. I journaled these things and never hid them. I still consider myself a thru hiker. I did not intend to skip- circumstances got in the way. Gotta roll with life on and off the trail. I loved slack packing and would have done it more often except I did not like how it dictated how much I could hike. If I felt like going further I couldn't because I didn't have my pack and if I felt like going shorter I couldn't because I didn't have my pack.
Hikingjim
09-01-2016, 08:47
thru-hiking is a personal accomplishment, not a guinness world record or something like that
I personally wouldn't favor a lot of slackpacking, but if someone is 20 and wants to get out there and enjoy, then who am I to say how to do it. It's just good to see people enjoying outdoors instead of playing world of warcraft or something in their basement.
OkeefenokeeJoe
09-01-2016, 09:21
.... are young hikers nowadays just lazy???
That, sir, is an understatement. Add ignorant and entitled and you have a more accurate representation.
OkeefenokeeJoe
DuneElliot
09-01-2016, 09:27
Actually it's an oxymoron!
FreeGoldRush
09-01-2016, 09:45
Aren't we all slack packing compared to how people thru hiked the trail 50 years ago? Technology is lightening our loads. Some people hike without carrying a shelter or cook set. Is that "sorta slack packing"? More frequent road crossings allow us to carry less food and resupply more often, or eat in town more often.
Everyone leverages the available technology and always has. It is technology that is frustrating you.
Starchild
09-01-2016, 10:06
The AT is changing and evolving, more towards El Camino experience (which I just completed this summer), and away from what I hear the PCT is still like (never did the PCT).
People slackpack because it's there now - and didn't in the past because it was not so available. It has and is becoming part of the journey experience. On my 2013 AT thru I slacked where I got a opportunity, only paid for it maybe 3 times (various practical reasons like needed a easy recovery from illness day but still wanted to hike), all else was AT yoging, but carried my pack through most of it. As such opportunistic slackpacking was part of the wonder and joy.
On El Camino slackpacking is basically how it is done now. I didn't find out till about 1/2 way and did it to get a break for my feet to recover. It's about 5 euros per day with multiple services providing it.
swisscross
09-01-2016, 10:32
I enjoyed at least 6 or 8 full days of slack packing on my hike. And I hiked with only 20 pounds in my pack for the entire first week. It has never occurred to me that I didn't hike the trail. I WISH i had southbound slack packed Moosalauke. That was a beast NOBO and fully loaded. I almost turned around and hiked the other way when I saw that rock wall with the little wooden foot thingies in it. I know someone though who skipped 4 states and still registered as a thru-hiker. I don't want it to bug me because it is her hike- but it does a little. And it makes me a hypocrite. I judge her, and someone else will judge me and call me a section hiker because I skipped 7 miles in the Shenandoahs when I was sick and 7 miles from Madison Hut when we were re-routed down a long trail at night. Truth. I journaled these things and never hid them. I still consider myself a thru hiker. I did not intend to skip- circumstances got in the way. Gotta roll with life on and off the trail. I loved slack packing and would have done it more often except I did not like how it dictated how much I could hike. If I felt like going further I couldn't because I didn't have my pack and if I felt like going shorter I couldn't because I didn't have my pack.
Four states?
DuneElliot
09-01-2016, 10:55
I enjoyed at least 6 or 8 full days of slack packing on my hike. And I hiked with only 20 pounds in my pack for the entire first week. It has never occurred to me that I didn't hike the trail. I WISH i had southbound slack packed Moosalauke. That was a beast NOBO and fully loaded. I almost turned around and hiked the other way when I saw that rock wall with the little wooden foot thingies in it. I know someone though who skipped 4 states and still registered as a thru-hiker. I don't want it to bug me because it is her hike- but it does a little. And it makes me a hypocrite. I judge her, and someone else will judge me and call me a section hiker because I skipped 7 miles in the Shenandoahs when I was sick and 7 miles from Madison Hut when we were re-routed down a long trail at night. Truth. I journaled these things and never hid them. I still consider myself a thru hiker. I did not intend to skip- circumstances got in the way. Gotta roll with life on and off the trail. I loved slack packing and would have done it more often except I did not like how it dictated how much I could hike. If I felt like going further I couldn't because I didn't have my pack and if I felt like going shorter I couldn't because I didn't have my pack.
I'd say skipping four states is not exactly the same as skipping a mile or two here and there...that's a pretty huge section! I'd be judging her too...mostly for her dishonesty and lack of integrity.
bigcranky
09-01-2016, 11:30
That, sir, is an understatement. Add ignorant and entitled and you have a more accurate representation.
Yeah, kids these days, amirite? Of course nobody complained at all about the fine young men and women back in the 60s who all worked hard and lived clean lives, no hippies or drugs or music back then, no sir. It's the kids nowadays who are the problem. :)
Actually, the young people I work with are uniformly bright, engaged, and work their butts off.
As for slackpacking, more power to them.
Puddlefish
09-01-2016, 11:47
I pretty much hold that little completion badge as meaningless... to anyone but yourself.
I don't think there's anything wrong with slackpacking the entire route, that's still a through hike. Your gear isn't through hiking, you are.
When they skip miles, it's not a through hike. When they walk an equal number of miles and elevation through more scenic blue blazes, good enough for me.
When they slackpack a 20 mile section in reverse soley to avoid 3,000 feet of elevation, that's kind of fuzzy, I think it becomes more of a section hike at that point.
Still, what I think isn't important to you. No one should care how I judge their hike, and I don't care if your hike is particularly pure. I hope everyone had an enjoyable hike and didn't ruin the enjoyment of anyone else, no matter the length of their hike.
Seatbelt
09-01-2016, 12:39
I loved slack packing and would have done it more often except I did not like how it dictated how much I could hike. If I felt like going further I couldn't because I didn't have my pack and if I felt like going shorter I couldn't because I didn't have my pack.
This is what I ran into last year trying to slackpack a little. I had a slight injury and had to get off the trail before reaching my destination for the day. No shelter, bag, extra food, etc. Had a very hard time finding a way out and then a ride. If I'd had my pack, I could have rested and healed for a day before proceeding, Probly won't try that again.
SouthMark
09-01-2016, 14:23
It is called hiking the AT... not backpacking the AT for goodness sakes.
MuddyWaters
09-01-2016, 14:28
"My hike is BETTER than someone else's because__________."
No, it's really not. Yours cheated in many ways too, you just choose to ignore.
Traveler
09-01-2016, 14:37
Complete the following sentence:
They (pick one)
Are using cell phones
Are being loud after 8 pm
Have a dog
Slack pack
Have a cat
Are Blue blazing
Are eating food with crinkly wrappers
Smoke cigarettes
Listen to headphones
Walk too slowly
Eat in the middle of the trail
Wear shorts
Wear a bear bell
Are not very attractive to look at
.... and ruin the AT hike experience for everyone as a result.
DuneElliot
09-01-2016, 14:45
Complete the following sentence:
They (pick one)
Are using cell phones
Are being loud after 8 pm
Have a dog
Slack pack
Have a cat
Are Blue blazing
Are eating food with crinkly wrappers
Smoke cigarettes
Listen to headphones
Walk too slowly
Eat in the middle of the trail
Wear shorts
Wear a bear bell
Are not very attractive to look at
.... and ruin the AT hike experience for everyone as a result.
Funniest thing I read all day
Congratulations on finishing your thru-hike. Slack packing is just another way to experience the AT.
Theodore Roosevelt is credited with saying "Comparison is the thief of joy". Don't let the hiking techniques of others spoil your memories.
i think the ATC really just calls you a 2,000-miler,period. doesn't matter to them how long it takes. I'm a long-ass-section hiker because of work and parenting. so i go as many weekends a year as i can for short sections. it will take me another 10-20 years (will make up some when my kids are older and i can take weeks off at a time to hike) and i love every minute of it and i will be just as proud when i finish. in fact, section hikers have tons more logistics to work out with so many more dates and schedules to work around. and we lose our hiking legs in between every hike. so i don't think we have any less to be proud of than a thru hiker. and I think if people take a few alternate blazes on a 2189 mile hike, they're still a 2000 miler. the only negative thing i think of some of the younger hikers i've met out there is there are many of those that don't practice leave no trace ie leave trash / tp along the trail and are setting up tents in the shelter. they have the attitude that i don't live here, ill never be back here, and ill never see these people again. that's the arrogant and entitled behavior mentioned here that i think is the most problematic, including to the ATC. otherwise, respect the trail and the other hikers, and cover that 2189 or a little shy of it however you want to and need to.
peakbagger
09-01-2016, 18:30
I moved to Gorham NH in 1987 and since I have been there many thru hikers of all ages slack the wildcats and the carters. A very large number of AT thru hikers begin or end their hike by borrowing a pack at KSC campground to climb Katahdin and have done so for year. They are slackpacking.
Skipping sections is another story, if someone skips a section or blue blazes they aren't a thru hiker unless they had to blue blaze as the AT was closed or dangerous. I happened to section through Georgia and southern NC after a small hurricane came into Franklin NC and caused a lot of damage to the AT and the local national forest. The national forest roads in the area were posted closed, individuals entering the area will be arrested. We had the option to head down to Georgia for the week but when we came back we asked the forest service and they would not allow us in the Standing Indian area as the roads were washed out. We were allowed to take the blue blaze trails that bypasses the loop. Per the AT rules we were legal as the trail was closed. We did come back the next year and did it anyhow but didn't have to. Hurricane Irene in 2011 destroyed much of VT and part of Western NH. The ATC didn't even post a blue blaze, they just declared the trail through the area closed and a legal through hike that year skipped the damaged section. This was in place for several weeks. Perhaps some folks came back and filled the section in but they didn't have to.
Sarcasm the elf
09-01-2016, 19:25
That, sir, is an understatement. Add ignorant and entitled and you have a more accurate representation.
OkeefenokeeJoe
What else did you expect when they were raised by the baby boomers. :p
So for all the current and previous thru hikers who carried their own gear up and down the mountains, I want you to know that a large percentage of the record number of thru hikers that complete the AT this year are cheaters and lazy young slack packers.
How is that possible?
Don't hikers have to sign a piece of paper stating that they made and honest effort to hike the entire trail?
Perhaps the hikers you saw were simply hiking he Trail on thier own terms, and not interested in such a formal recognition from the ATC -- or from fellow hikers who think like you who took a different approach.
Christoph
09-01-2016, 21:01
I too have a sense of "my feet will carry me and my pack every inch of this trail" thing in my head. I'm stubborn I guess, judge me if you will. Probably why I'm not picking up where I left off last year on my thru attempt and I'm starting completely over next year (yes that's a thing now about 98% official (not FB worthy yet)) But that's just me. I don't hold it against anyone who's out there having a great time doing it a little different than I do. If you wanna slack pack (or not), go for it! Just have fun, isn't that what it's all about anyway?
Sarcasm the elf
09-01-2016, 21:26
https://i.imgflip.com/19wiw1.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/19wiw1)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Hike your own hike, it´s really just that simple. My wife and I enjoy team slacking. I drive her to the southerly trail head, then park the car at the northerly trail head and hike south to meet her for lunch, or to camp together overnight depending on the length of the section. When she reaches the car she drives south to pick me up and we then drive to the next section or double section.
We both hit every foot of the trail, just in different directions and sometimes without full pack. When we complete our journey to Katahdin I think we will be just as proud of ourselves as you are proud of yourself, and i think we have all earned the title thru hiker.
Just because we didn´t carry our 30 pounds every inch of the way does not detract from our accomplishment. To each his own, and hike your own hike. Be thankful the rest of us are out here with you putting in the miles, regardless of our age.
Be proud of your accomplishment and congratulations on your achievement, you´ve earned a special spot in the 2000 mile club and a special right to be called thru hiker.
Every year I hear a few hikers explain that the "2000 miler" certificate is so named because the ATC allows you to skip 189 miles and still be considered a thruhiker. :-?:-?
brother I agree 110% with you
slackpacking has become the 'thing'
I just returned from a section hike in MA and VT
met a lot of young SoBo thrus who talked like slacking was the accepted and normal way to hike the AT
the emphasis today seems to be more on doing mega daily miles, and finishing the trail as soon as possible
yellow blazing & slackpacking are becoming more accepted
think about it.... a lot of that goes on in normal life these days
short-cuts & slackpacking
peakbagger
09-02-2016, 11:43
The AT 2000 miler certificate is strictly a congratulatory certificate by ATC of a self substantiated statement by an individual. If someone is so hard up or delusional that they want to lie about the entire hike, ATC will gladly send them a certificate. If someone wants to lie to themselves and others that they are 2000 miler that's their choice. I didn't sign a register at Springer or at KSC and yet I know I did the entire trail.
I do chuckle about the purist whiteblazers early on in thru hike. I met a lot of them over the years down south. I meet far fewer up in the whites. Several of the nicer above treeline summits in the whites are on blue blazes as the AT is routed to minimize weather exposure (if possible) along the summit ridge. Sure there may be some folks who go around the summits to stick to the AT and some go up and back via the same blue blaze, but far more seem to come up one blue blaze and go down the other effectively skipping a section of the AT. I also expect they consider themselves a thru hiker. HYOH
jbbweeks
09-02-2016, 22:01
WOW - I just hike! I like to do it - that's it - that's all of it - the only rules are the rules you learned from your mother - don't be a slob - cleanup your mess - keep your mouth shut - if you don't like someone don't play with them - don't lie -don't steal - don't be mean - if you see someone that needs help then help them -- smile - now go play and have fun and don't get in trouble or you'll lose your bike for a week! When was the last time you took a bath? Nothing else matters!
Tapatalk
I'm a section hiker. My kids sometimes hike with me for day hikes and at times, they've been slackpackers. Definitely adding to their mileage but the littlest? He's done a boatload of miles with someone else carrying his stuff. Maybe those miles shouldn't count towards his 2,000. And when the oldest was a baby, we covered miles with her--in a backpack on my husband's back. Does that count towards her miles? Or does that count as double mileage for my husband? At times, I've covered the same section of trail during different seasons. How does this count towards my overall trail mileage? I think I need a Frequent Hiker Card.... ;)
When I was in college, I backpacked through Eastern and Central Europe and the Middle East. This was before cell phones--my folks had no way of getting in touch with me, and at one point, I was detained at a border crossing. Not having access to a cell phone made this predicament extremely harrowing. Long story short, I survived and made it out. These days, all you need is a cell phone and an internet connection and you're ready for almost any situation. This doesn't make those folks trekking across Europe these days any less legitimate because they're "cheating" by using technology, or by booking reservations on trains in their hostels or campsites the night before they plan to travel on. It's just a different experience.
I've been privileged to meet many thru hikers on the AT as they've made it to NY. Some had more stuff; some less. Some had dogs, some had trekking poles, some walked on their own, and others walked in groups. Whether a person has a pack or not or if someone skips some miles for whatever reason (perhaps some had covered other sections previously, or plan to do them in the future) doesn't make a thru hike any less legitimate.
I love hiking, I love the AT, and I've always felt that the woods is a judgement free zone. It's where many of us go to be free of the stress and competition that defines our daily lives.
You do your thing and be proud of your accomplishments. Don't worry about the person a day ahead of you--it doesn't negate your accomplishments in any way.
Complete the following sentence:
They (pick one)
Are using cell phones
Are being loud after 8 pm
Have a dog
Slack pack
Have a cat
Are Blue blazing
Are eating food with crinkly wrappers
Smoke cigarettes
Listen to headphones
Walk too slowly
Eat in the middle of the trail
Wear shorts
Wear a bear bell
Are not very attractive to look at
.... and ruin the AT hike experience for everyone as a result.
do not forget:
smell even worse than me
pick their nose
pick their ass
bite their toenails
capehiker
09-03-2016, 01:09
Somebody should tell Warren Doyle he's doing it wrong.
Time Zone
09-03-2016, 09:57
Who are you "competing" against? If you are not "competing", then you would not be complaining about how others hike the AT and whether or not they call themselves "thru hikers". There's no medal, no award, no plaque for completing the AT. The accomplishment is inside of you for getting it done.
Not exactly. As I understand it, the ATC recognizes thru-hikers, and that accomplishment has some social currency. If the sense of accomplishment were purely internal, there would be no point in ever claiming to have thru-hiked the AT.
Those who falsely claim it (including those who add their own exceptions to the ATC definition) devalue the currency. It is human nature to be bothered by such things. Nothing wrong with trying to uphold a defined standard. OTOH, perhaps the ATC should get out of the business of recognizing people who self-certify the accomplishment. Imagine if colleges/universities did the same.
I wrote more, but lost it due to automatic logout. I wish I had time to re-create it, but I need to get back to my dissertation for my third Ph.D. ;)
I tried slack packing for the first time this year. I was re-hiking from Harper's Ferry to Duncannon with a friend. I had already done this section about 10 years ago. When the opportunity arose to slack pack for a couple of days, no charge, I decided to try it. It was different, and reasonably nice. I can see where it would be tempting if you were coming off an injury. That said, I will not be going out of my way to do it again.
A large part of the backpacking experience for me is to know that I am self-sufficient, that I can hike in any direction I want, for as long as I want, and be completely comfortable and safe. Gives me a feeling of tremendous freedom. It's been that way since my first backpacking trip in the late 1970s. In other words, I like having all my gear with me. Slack packing means you are no longer self-sufficient and you MUST make your planned destination. For me it takes away from the feelings that I like.
TheWhiteWalker
09-04-2016, 11:02
OK seems HYOH only means if someone else approves of it, seems like a common problem with life in general these days.
Not true! HYOH is being abused and used incorrectly. Quick example... I met a "thru hiker" who admitted skipping 110 miles of trail because he had to get off trail for a couple days and wanted to rejoin his friends. I asked him if he plans on doing that 110 miles he skipped and he said no because he heard it was a boring section. He told me he still considers himself a thru hiker and justified it by using the HYOH.
That is a very common example. I will say that 110 miles was on the higher end, most "thru hikers" that were skipping sections were more in the 20-60 mile range. Most of them will justify their blue blazing for the miles they skipped and pull out the HYOH to make themselves feel better.
TheWhiteWalker
09-04-2016, 11:05
Slack packing caters to all ages. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Yes, people of all ages do it, never said otherwise. But the young kids are abusing the service. You completely missed the point of my rant.
TheWhiteWalker
09-04-2016, 11:32
Aren't we all slack packing compared to how people thru hiked the trail 50 years ago? Technology is lightening our loads. Some people hike without carrying a shelter or cook set. Is that "sorta slack packing"? More frequent road crossings allow us to carry less food and resupply more often, or eat in town more often.
Everyone leverages the available technology and always has. It is technology that is frustrating you.
I don't disagree except the part where you said technology is frustrating me. I am in my 30's, doesn't frustrate me.
I wasn't out there to try to reenact a hike 50 years ago (much respect to them). Technology improvements are inevitable, so I look at that as an even playing field for all thru hikers on the current year.
And from my experience, those who enter a thru hike without being in good shape with a light pack, don't do well in the long run. Their legs never get a chance to get stronger like those who carry heavier loads. 2nd half of the thru hike, many of the light weights were getting dropped to the back of the pack.
We seem to now be living in a culture where changing definitions of terms and even entire words to fit an agenda are commonplace and accepted.
IMO there is nothing wrong with slack packing. HYOH and be proud of how you do it, but hiking is hiking and skipping sections by riding in a vehicle is not really hiking the whole trail. Thru-hiking has always meant long distance hiking the whole trail, as far as I know, or at least attempting to hike the whole trail. Heck, you might even have a valid use of the term thru-hiking if you are thru-hiking a section, but it would be inaccurate to claim you thru-hiked the AT if you do not stipulate you thru-hiked a section or sections of the trail.
TheWhiteWalker
09-04-2016, 11:51
brother I agree 110% with you
slackpacking has become the 'thing'
I just returned from a section hike in MA and VT
met a lot of young SoBo thrus who talked like slacking was the accepted and normal way to hike the AT
the emphasis today seems to be more on doing mega daily miles, and finishing the trail as soon as possible
yellow blazing & slackpacking are becoming more accepted
think about it.... a lot of that goes on in normal life these days
short-cuts & slackpacking
I am glad someone agrees with me. You hit the nail on the head about the emphasis today being about mega daily miles. The yellow blazing and excessive slack packing but the young kids is being more accepted because people are turning a blind eye because they have been brain washed by the HYOH.
TheWhiteWalker
09-04-2016, 12:00
Not exactly. As I understand it, the ATC recognizes thru-hikers, and that accomplishment has some social currency. If the sense of accomplishment were purely internal, there would be no point in ever claiming to have thru-hiked the AT.
Those who falsely claim it (including those who add their own exceptions to the ATC definition) devalue the currency. It is human nature to be bothered by such things. Nothing wrong with trying to uphold a defined standard. OTOH, perhaps the ATC should get out of the business of recognizing people who self-certify the accomplishment. Imagine if colleges/universities did the same.
I wrote more, but lost it due to automatic logout. I wish I had time to re-create it, but I need to get back to my dissertation for my third Ph.D. ;)
You get it! I couldn't have explained it any better.
capehiker
09-04-2016, 12:36
Yes, people of all ages do it, never said otherwise. But the young kids are abusing the service. You completely missed the point of my rant.
Your use of the word abuse implies there is a standard expectation of how much slack packing can used. BTW, Warren Doyle has hiked the entire AT 17 times, all by using a day pack and having resources at the end of the night. He also runs a service for people wanting to slack pack the entire AT. Hint: average age of customer is NOT a millennial.
TheWhiteWalker
09-04-2016, 14:18
Some of you are clearly missing my point and some of you will never understand my point unless you completed a thru hike. I am not trying to be mean but it is the truth. Thru hikers are a different breed with a far greater goal. So when you try to compare your thoughts/experience from your section hike to anything I am talking about, it is irrelevant. There was a reason why I posted this topic in the Thru Hiking Forum Section and not elsewhere.
The point of my rant is to let former, current, and future thru hikers know about the excessive slack packing and section skipping that I witnessed (especially from young thru hikers) in the class of 2016. And how many of them would justify their actions by misusing the Hike Your Own Hike (HYOH) saying.
If you cheated on your thru hike attempt and still called yourself a thru hiker, I look at you the same way a military person views stolen valor. You are a liar, cheater, and a fraud. HYOH does not apply! If you cheaters want to tag along with real thru hikers, like hundreds of you did, don’t claim to be a thru hiker to locals in town, day hikers, section hikers, your family, yourself, or to real thru hikers.
Issue 1: Slack Packing – Yes, according to ATC, you are still considered thru hikers if you completed all the miles without skipping like I mention in my original post. Yes, some of you slack whackers did hike sections in the opposite direction to intentionally avoid large climbs up, you are pathetic for doing that. I highly doubt the ATC envisioned young able-bodied hikers abusing the slack packing when they wrote the requirements for thru hiking. Excessive slack packing by young able-bodied hikers is annoying for thru hikers to witness, not to mention you are lazy which I would bet this also mirrors your off trail life and work ethic. Maybe it is your parents fault, regardless I feel sorry for you. Did you ever wonder why the hostel owners/employees that push the slack packing option are often fat??
Issue 2: Section Skipping – You are those lazy hikers that will justify your section skipping by your blue blazing and HYOH... you know who you are! You are NOT a thru hiker according to the ATC. Don’t even try to twist the ATC words or pull out the HYOH, you are NOT a thru hiker… so quit claiming to be one on the trail. If you want to call yourself a thru hiker, then hike the entire trail! Yes, all you lazy hikers that skipped the 10-mile hike into Baxter State Park and opted for the shuttle to Millinocket, which then shuttles you to the base of Katahdin, you are not thru hikers…. 1 of many examples of your cheating.
Issue 3: HYOH – Hike Your Own Hike was intended for people who hike slow, fast, excessive zero days, no zero days, takes breaks every 30 minutes, never takes breaks, stops at every view, bypasses every view, doesn’t wear deodorant, always wears deodorant, etc. So please quit saying HYOH as a way to justify being a thru hiker.
I could easily be a sheep and brainwash myself into believing the HYOH BS but my thru hike was such an awesome experience that I will not keep my mouth shut. Attempting and completing a thru hike of the AT is something very special that words cannot describe. It is not an easy feat for anyone, even for the best. When you have fellow hikers taking are shortcuts and also calling themselves thru hikers, it is insulting not only to current thru hikers but also to former thru hikers who have completed the trail. Saying nothing and buying into their HYOH is just enabling the lazy hiking culture. As these lazy thru hiker impostors would say… if you disagree with me, then please don’t comment and go HYOH!!
Sarcasm the elf
09-04-2016, 14:29
Your use of the word abuse implies there is a standard expectation of how much slack packing can used. BTW, Warren Doyle has hiked the entire AT 17 times, all by using a day pack and having resources at the end of the night. He also runs a service for people wanting to slack pack the entire AT. Hint: average age of customer is NOT a millennial.
You just don't seem to understand! These slackpackers and yellow blazers are enjoying their vacation the wrong way! We need do something about it! :rolleyes:
Fun fact, the earliest A.T. hiker known to have been accused of yellowblazing was Grandma Gatewood. Earl Schaffer was the accuser.
Some of you are clearly missing my point and some of you will never understand my point unless you completed a thru hike.!
I think I missed your point because you are combining skipping sections and slackpacking as one thing. They are two separate things.
Time Zone
09-04-2016, 18:53
I think I missed your point because you are combining skipping sections and slackpacking as one thing. They are two separate things.
True. But I think he is suggesting they often occur together.
Time Zone
09-04-2016, 18:59
TWW,
If you really want to get worked up, read The Cheating Culture by David Callahan. It goes beyond observing such examples but explains a bit about what gives rise to them, and the societal consequences of it. In any case, I'm largely with you, but since I'm not a thru-hiker, I don't (can't) feel the sting of counterfeit social currency quite like you. But I probably would.
There's one point you brought up which I would like to challenge you on. If someone (like me) found going uphill easier than going downhill, and I section hiked with more uphills, would you consider that cheating? To me they've met the ATC definition, and I'm fine with it. It would be easier for me to go uphill, as it turns out.
I'm really with you on what HYOH really should mean. It doesn't mean hike your own length, sections, etc., if you want to be called a thru-hiker by ATC definition.
PS I'd also recommend the movie, The Emperor's Club.
SouthMark
09-04-2016, 19:12
There is no such thing as a thru hiker. If you come off the trail and spend even one night in a motel, hostel, etc. then you are just a section hiker.
Not exactly. As I understand it, the ATC recognizes thru-hikers, and that accomplishment has some social currency. If the sense of accomplishment were purely internal, there would be no point in ever claiming to have thru-hiked the AT.
You may understand it that way, but it is factually incorrect to say the ATC recognizes thu-hikers.
They do not.
colorado_rob
09-04-2016, 19:39
This thread reminds me of an anti Howard Roark, for any Ayn Rand fans out there. The exact opposite of the scene a where we Elsworth Toohey asks Howard, " so Howard, what DO you think about me?"
Howard replies, in his perfect self confidence, "well, actually I don't think about you at all".
Long way of saying, I hope you enjoy eventually get some self esteem, because only a lack thereof would cause anyone to care about others' hike standards.
MuddyWaters
09-04-2016, 20:24
Some of you are clearly missing my point and some of you will never understand my point unless you completed a thru hike. I am not trying to be mean but it is the truth. Thru hikers are a different breed with a far greater goal. So when you try to compare your thoughts/experience from your section hike to anything I am talking about, it is irrelevant. There was a reason why I posted this topic in the Thru Hiking Forum Section and not elsewhere.
The point of my rant is to let former, current, and future thru hikers know about the excessive slack packing and section skipping that I witnessed (especially from young thru hikers) in the class of 2016. And how many of them would justify their actions by misusing the Hike Your Own Hike (HYOH) saying.
Most people DO know. The thing is....they dont particularly care the way you passionately seem to.
"Thru hikers are a different breed " ??
Sorry, but no. Youve drunk the koolaid by the gallon you rockstar you.
This thread reminds me of an anti Howard Roark, for any Ayn Rand fans out there. The exact opposite of the scene a where we Elsworth Toohey asks Howard, " so Howard, what DO you think about me?"
Howard replies, in his perfect self confidence, "well, actually I don't think about you at all".
Long way of saying, I hope you enjoy eventually get some self esteem, because only a lack thereof would cause anyone to care about others' hike standards.
Agreed.
A far more clever way to communicate these very same feelings would be to wax poetic about the transcendent beauty of hiking as a purist.
This could be done in the same manner as a fly fisherman might compare his art with a that of a person who wraps his hook in Velveeta.
Traillium
09-04-2016, 20:38
[QUOTE=rickb;2090188]
A far more clever way to communicate these very same feelings would be to wax poetic about the transcendent beauty of hiking as a purist.
/QUOTE]
I'd love to read such a thread!
Bruce Traillium, brucetraillium.wordpress.com
Skinny Rooster
09-04-2016, 20:54
I slack packed three or four times on my thru. If I were to hike the trail again I would slack pack way more often than that.
Puddlefish
09-04-2016, 21:27
Bottom line is, people can lie all they want, cheat all they want, but it's still not going to impact my enjoyment or my accomplishment. It's a personal thing.
Technically there was one yellow/blue blazer who negatively impacted my hike, but only because I didn't like the guy, and he kept catching up to me despite my best efforts to leave him behind. I might have disliked him less if he had just admitted that he was yellow blazing around every single mountain, but then again, maybe not.
I'm only a lowly section hiker, and based on how my plantar fasciitis is going, I doubt I'll ever finish a through hike. It's pretty silly to think that only thru hiker's opinions matter on this topic. I've accomplished a great deal of difficult things in my life that I'm proud of, and I consider more difficult than thru hiking. Failure to finish a thru hike doesn't invalidate anyone's opinions on this topic. We all have analogous life experiences.
Studlintsean
09-04-2016, 21:40
Yeah, kids these days, amirite? Of course nobody complained at all about the fine young men and women back in the 60s who all worked hard and lived clean lives, no hippies or drugs or music back then, no sir. It's the kids nowadays who are the problem. :)
Actually, the young people I work with are uniformly bright, engaged, and work their butts off.
As for slackpacking, more power to them.
The guy you quoted obviously has some deep down disdain for the millenials. Seems like half his posts are complaints about how horrible the young bucks are. Get off your high horse (not BigCranky who after years of reading his posts seem far from "Cranky").
Traveler
09-05-2016, 05:09
This thread reminds me of an anti Howard Roark, for any Ayn Rand fans out there.....
Funny, I was thinking something similar, Dave Chapelle's scene where Clayton Bixby's actions makes someones head explode.
peakbagger
09-05-2016, 06:40
We do understand you, we just don't agree with you. You for some reason need to prop up your thru hike by denigrating others.
Some of you are clearly missing my point and some of you will never understand my point unless you completed a thru hike. I am not trying to be mean but it is the truth. Thru hikers are a different breed with a far greater goal. So when you try to compare your thoughts/experience from your section hike to anything I am talking about, it is irrelevant. There was a reason why I posted this topic in the Thru Hiking Forum Section and not elsewhere.
The point of my rant is to let former, current, and future thru hikers know about the excessive slack packing and section skipping that I witnessed (especially from young thru hikers) in the class of 2016. And how many of them would justify their actions by misusing the Hike Your Own Hike (HYOH) saying.
If you cheated on your thru hike attempt and still called yourself a thru hiker, I look at you the same way a military person views stolen valor. You are a liar, cheater, and a fraud. HYOH does not apply! If you cheaters want to tag along with real thru hikers, like hundreds of you did, don’t claim to be a thru hiker to locals in town, day hikers, section hikers, your family, yourself, or to real thru hikers.
Issue 1: Slack Packing – Yes, according to ATC, you are still considered thru hikers if you completed all the miles without skipping like I mention in my original post. Yes, some of you slack whackers did hike sections in the opposite direction to intentionally avoid large climbs up, you are pathetic for doing that. I highly doubt the ATC envisioned young able-bodied hikers abusing the slack packing when they wrote the requirements for thru hiking. Excessive slack packing by young able-bodied hikers is annoying for thru hikers to witness, not to mention you are lazy which I would bet this also mirrors your off trail life and work ethic. Maybe it is your parents fault, regardless I feel sorry for you. Did you ever wonder why the hostel owners/employees that push the slack packing option are often fat??
Issue 2: Section Skipping – You are those lazy hikers that will justify your section skipping by your blue blazing and HYOH... you know who you are! You are NOT a thru hiker according to the ATC. Don’t even try to twist the ATC words or pull out the HYOH, you are NOT a thru hiker… so quit claiming to be one on the trail. If you want to call yourself a thru hiker, then hike the entire trail! Yes, all you lazy hikers that skipped the 10-mile hike into Baxter State Park and opted for the shuttle to Millinocket, which then shuttles you to the base of Katahdin, you are not thru hikers…. 1 of many examples of your cheating.
Issue 3: HYOH – Hike Your Own Hike was intended for people who hike slow, fast, excessive zero days, no zero days, takes breaks every 30 minutes, never takes breaks, stops at every view, bypasses every view, doesn’t wear deodorant, always wears deodorant, etc. So please quit saying HYOH as a way to justify being a thru hiker.
I could easily be a sheep and brainwash myself into believing the HYOH BS but my thru hike was such an awesome experience that I will not keep my mouth shut. Attempting and completing a thru hike of the AT is something very special that words cannot describe. It is not an easy feat for anyone, even for the best. When you have fellow hikers taking are shortcuts and also calling themselves thru hikers, it is insulting not only to current thru hikers but also to former thru hikers who have completed the trail. Saying nothing and buying into their HYOH is just enabling the lazy hiking culture. As these lazy thru hiker impostors would say… if you disagree with me, then please don’t comment and go HYOH!!
I have thru hiked yet I think you may need a long hike to chill a bit. While I have never slack packed or yellow blazed I couldn't give a rats azz if others do a one, two skip a few 99, 100 approach to their hikeor hire a Sherpa to carry their pack. You keep throwing the term "abusing" around. Really? Do you think because you just walked 2000 miles that you are now the singular source of the truth on how one should hike?
Finally, as to your comment "if you disagree with me, then please don't comment and go HYOH!!" This shows your immaturity. You are just looking for validation and are upset that everyone didn't hail you as a hiking sage.
Mags, when you return we need you HMHDI post.
MuddyWaters
09-05-2016, 07:52
http://www.pmags.com/hike-my-hike-damn-it-hmhdi
Traillium
09-05-2016, 08:28
http://www.pmags.com/hike-my-hike-damn-it-hmhdi
Hhmmh … seems that I need to update Mag's HMHDI vision based on MY vision — just so it's correct.
(Everything has to be be converted to the true Canuck metric units — and rounded to even units. I.e., 10 kilograms, not £20, to accommodate the greater need for more Deet …)
Bruce Traillium, brucetraillium.wordpress.com
Time Zone
09-05-2016, 08:30
You may understand it that way, but it is factually incorrect to say the ATC recognizes thu-hikers.
They do not.
Well, that's an interesting claim in light of this info from the ATC site. I can't reconcile the two claims. Can you?
The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) recognizes anyone who reports completion of the entire Trail as a “2,000-miler.” The term is a matter of tradition and convenience, based upon the original estimated length of the Trail. Conservancy policy is to operate on an honor system, assuming that those who apply for 2000-miler status have hiked all of the A.T. between Katahdin and Springer Mountain, either as a thru-hiker or in sections. In the event of an emergency, such as a flood, a forest fire, or an impending storm, blue-blazed trails or officially required roadwalks are viable substitutes for the white-blazed route. Issues of sequence, direction, speed, length of time or whether one carries a pack are not considered. ATC assumes that those who apply have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail, even if they did not walk past every white blaze. If you meet these standards, please complete and sign the form below.
Source: https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/hiker-lounge/2000-miler-application
Time Zone
09-05-2016, 08:36
There is no such thing as a thru hiker. If you come off the trail and spend even one night in a motel, hostel, etc. then you are just a section hiker.
The ATC uses the term "thru-hiker" quite a bit on their website. If the concept doesn't exist, why do they use it?
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/explore-the-trail/thru-hiking/voluntary-thru-hiker-registration
if the concept does not exist and anyone who spends even one night off trail is a "just a section hiker", what is the term (if anything) for someone who never spends a night off trail? Just a hiker? Ironbutt hiker?
Fun fact, the earliest A.T. hiker known to have been accused of yellowblazing was Grandma Gatewood. Earl Schaffer was the accuser.
Earl did it too. Read his journal online at https://transcription.si.edu/view/6734/NMAH-AC0828-0000025-007
Whitewalker, what amount of slack packing would you say disqualifies someone from being a thru-hiker?
Traveler
09-05-2016, 08:51
Hhmmh … seems that I need to update Mag's HMHDI vision based on MY vision — just so it's correct.
(Everything has to be be converted to the true Canuck metric units — and rounded to even units. I.e., 10 kilograms, not £20, to accommodate the greater need for more Deet …)
Bruce Traillium, brucetraillium.wordpress.com
Unfortunately, the supply of Labatt's in the US is relatively small, so "true" measuring devices are not abundant.
Time Zone
09-05-2016, 08:54
I have thru hiked yet I think you may need a long hike to chill a bit. While I have never slack packed or yellow blazed I couldn't give a rats azz if others do a one, two skip a few 99, 100 approach to their hikeor hire a Sherpa to carry their pack. You keep throwing the term "abusing" around. Really? Do you think because you just walked 2000 miles that you are now the singular source of the truth on how one should hike?
While I don't share the white walker's apparent vitriol, I think it's more fair to say that the point under contention is the combination of skipping sections (for reasons other than fire, flood, storm, etc) and claiming to be a thru-hiker, or 2000 miler if you like. They seem to be in conflict with how the ATC lays out the definition, which is self-certified and on the honor system. To me, there's nothing wrong with the first part by itself, until combined with the second part.
It reminds me of my soccer-playing days as a youth, when we would warm up with laps around the field. There were always some guys who would cut the corners of the field. First lap, the entire field would be within the rough oval that circumscribed the field. Second lap, they'd clip the corners. The corner kick areas would be outside the path. Third and subsequent laps, they would head diagonally for the sidelines soon after passing behind the goal. They may have seen each circuit as a lap of the field, but it really wasn't. Did they run? Yeah, they ran. Did they lap the field each time? No. Did they run laps around the goals? Yes.
So I think it's a matter of what you claim you did, relative to what you actually did. If some of you think it's OK to claim you hiked 2000 miles on the AT when you "only" hiked 1900 or 1800, well, I don't know what to say to you. Hiking 1900 miles is awesome and amazing, but self-certifying that you did more, that action is not so awesome.
Traillium
09-05-2016, 08:55
Unfortunately, the supply of Labatt's in the US is relatively small, so "true" measuring devices are not abundant.
After The Wall gets built — and after we pay for it — you'll have to smuggle yourself up here to become a True Believer. I'll save some 'Cinquante' for you …
Bruce Traillium, brucetraillium.wordpress.com
Time Zone
09-05-2016, 08:56
Unfortunately, the supply of Labatt's in the US is relatively small, so "true" measuring devices are not abundant.
Agreed, we only have one Oliver Smoot.
MuddyWaters
09-05-2016, 08:58
Well, that's an interesting claim in light of this info from the ATC site. I can't reconcile the two claims. Can you?
Thru hikers get same 2000 miler certificate (if thats important to them), as someone completing trail over 50 years. Theres no special recognition given for thru hiking is what the ATC is saying. Registration is new and simply a way to try to spread the hordes out voluntarily. How to get people to voluntarily do this.......make them feel special with a cute little tag.
MuddyWaters
09-05-2016, 09:01
Earl did it too. Read his journal online at https://transcription.si.edu/view/6734/NMAH-AC0828-0000025-007
Back then they got lost frequently, took rides from people back to trail, and no doubt.......missed a couple miles here and there.
Well, that's an interesting claim in light of this info from the ATC site. I can't reconcile the two claims. Can you?
Source: https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/community/hiker-lounge/2000-miler-application
The ATC does not recognize thru hikers-- at least not as a special classification.
Rather, they acknowledge applicants who have walked the entire AT with the organization's "2000 Miler" recognition, regardless of how they hiked the Trail.
They don't care if applicants did the AT as day hikers, or thru-hikers, or section hikers or slack packers or any combination of these.
Sort of makes sense considering the ATC is first and foremost is a TRAIL organization and not a HIKING organization, right?
The definition of what constitutes a "2000 Miler" is spelled out on their application form. It is thier award so they get to define it or change it anyway they so choose. They ATC can even require that hikers looking for the "2000 Miler" recognition sign a document attesting to having met their definition. And they do.
The term "Thru Hiker" is different.
Like many words in common usage, some will use them more "correctly" than others, but no one person or organization gets to set the definition-- we all do. English a living language -- does anyone think "gang banger" still means what it did 30 years ago?
Same with "Thru Hiker". The meaning has changed over time (but not as much as some would think).
Big deal.
Wolf - 23000
09-05-2016, 10:13
I’m getting in this thread late but after reading several of the posts, this is the same topic post over and over again. Last year I asked the question, why it was costing so much to thru-hike compare to the 1990s. In the 1990s, the general advises was about a dollar per/mile. Now, few hikers travel spending less than $5,000 on an average AT thru-hike.
Part of the increase is inflation of course, but a bigger part is the amount hikers are spending on lodging and related expenses. Hikers are spending more time in towns and less time on the trail. It is easier to stay in town, slackpack down the trail and then come back to a nice warm bed. The good part is also means less impact on the trail from camping, litter, etc. The draw-back is it cost more and hikers gain less experience hikers in the wilderness. If someone is spending less time camping in the woods they are not going to be as experience as someone who spend more time camping and less time in town. HYOH. The same applies to hikers who skip large section of trails. Hikers skipping hundreds of trail miles, but still calling themselves “thru-hikers” are going to be less experience in the wilderness. If you talk to them, you can tell. If someone tells you the, “White Mountains are all nice mountains.” They might have skipped them.
Some ones knowledge on equipment is the same way. It always amazes me how someone can claim they have hiked thousands of times and still ask, “What do you carry?” Wouldn’t someone who hiked thousands of miles know where, when, how all determine what equipment someone is going to carry? Call me crazy but wouldn’t it make sense on a normal Northbound thru-hike, someone hiking Georgia in March/April, would carry different equipment than hiking in Pennsylvania. I’m not saying anything someone with experience doesn’t know, but it a different generation.
Face it, this is the new generation of hikers. In WhiteWalker original post, some of the same hikers might even be the same “expert hikers” advising other hikers on how to hike the trail.
Wolf
mountainman
09-05-2016, 10:14
completing the A T means you walked every White Blaze on your own two feet whether your carrying anything or not.
Skipping sections is a different matter. If you don't hike the entire trail, then you should not say you did. SIMPLE Hike your on hike is great , lying about it is not.
mountainman
09-05-2016, 10:19
completing the A T means you walked every White Blaze on your own two feet whether your carrying anything or not.
Skipping sections is a different matter. If you don't hike the entire trail, then you should not say you did. SIMPLE Hike your on hike is great , lying about it is not.
Tipi Walter
09-05-2016, 10:52
I will say many of the hostel owners along the trail are shoving the idea of slack packing down everyone’s throat and for some reason the young hikers couldn’t resist. It is just SAD and PATHETIC to watch these young “thru hikers” take advantage of slack packing every opportunity they could. I just find it very odd the difference of opinion between the young and older generations on slack packing… are young hikers nowadays just lazy???
So for all the current and previous thru hikers who carried their own gear up and down the mountains, I want you to know that a large percentage of the record number of thru hikers that complete the AT this year are cheaters and lazy young slack packers.
I like the way you think. Colin Fletcher was a curmudgeon, Ed Abbey was a curmudgeon, I am a curmudgeon and apparently you are a curmudgeon. You are in good company.
Aren't we all slack packing compared to how people thru hiked the trail 50 years ago? Technology is lightening our loads. Some people hike without carrying a shelter or cook set. Is that "sorta slack packing"? More frequent road crossings allow us to carry less food and resupply more often, or eat in town more often.
Everyone leverages the available technology and always has. It is technology that is frustrating you.
The prevailing trend nowadays in my opinion is to experience the outdoors in smaller and smaller bites. It's the trend called DONE IN A DAY---to experience "wilderness" in much shorter time periods and by carrying the least amount of weight. Done In A Day hysteria is really the "battle" between Dayhiking and Backpacking.
brother I agree 110% with you
slackpacking has become the 'thing'
I just returned from a section hike in MA and VT
met a lot of young SoBo thrus who talked like slacking was the accepted and normal way to hike the AT
the emphasis today seems to be more on doing mega daily miles, and finishing the trail as soon as possible
yellow blazing & slackpacking are becoming more accepted
think about it.... a lot of that goes on in normal life these days
short-cuts & slackpacking
This reflects my previous comment about Done In A Day types. It's also a reflection of the wired-in generation with waypoints and live-feeds and phone addictions, coupled with the Fast & Light hysteria so common nowadays. Your point---"Finishing the trail as soon as possible" and I would add---"Spending as little time as possible with uninterrupted wilderness time."
Bottom line is, people can lie all they want, cheat all they want, but it's still not going to impact my enjoyment or my accomplishment. It's a personal thing.
Exactly. My enjoyment of the forest has nothing to do with the Appalachian Trail or its hikers or dayhikers or slackpackers or thruhikers. In fact, I detest backpacking on the AT during most of the year because most of the backpackers I see are either rushing to a town or recently from a town. It's depressing. These outdoorsmen are severely interrupted with constant resupply and absurdly low food loads, not to mention the pitiful dependence on AT box shelters. No thanks.
Hikers are spending more time in towns and less time on the trail. It is easier to stay in town, slackpack down the trail and then come back to a nice warm bed.
Face it, this is the new generation of hikers. In WhiteWalker original post, some of the same hikers might even be the same “expert hikers” advising other hikers on how to hike the trail.
Wolf
First point is true. Slackers. "Nice warm bed" about says it all.
To second point: So true. Whenever I find myself on the AT during a backpacking trip I am amazed by these so-called "experts" HOLDING COURT at picnic tables by trail shelters. They invite questions from the drooling onlookers and "newbs" but never themselves ask any questions. They've been on the trail for 2 whole months and will now take your questions as they portray a cool trail weariness. It's laughable.
One time I met such a fellow at Thomas Knob shelter by Mt Rogers and he went on and on about his trail experience. I managed to get in one question: "Have you ever camped in snow??" "No" was all he said. Scratch another expert off the list.
Ridiculously low food loads. Oh, the horror... :rolleyes:
The ATC does not recognize thru hikers-- at least not as a special classification.
Rather, they acknowledge applicants who have walked the entire AT with the organization's "2000 Miler" recognition, regardless of how they hiked the Trail.
They don't care if applicants did the AT as day hikers, or thru-hikers, or section hikers or slack packers or any combination of these.
Sort of makes sense considering the ATC is first and foremost is a TRAIL organization and not a HIKING organization, right?
The definition of what constitutes a "2000 Miler" is spelled out on their application form. It is thier award so they get to define it or change it anyway they so choose. They ATC can even require that hikers looking for the "2000 Miler" recognition sign a document attesting to having met their definition. And they do.
The term "Thru Hiker" is different.
Like many words in common usage, some will use them more "correctly" than others, but no one person or organization gets to set the definition-- we all do. English a living language -- does anyone think "gang banger" still means what it did 30 years ago?
Same with "Thru Hiker". The meaning has changed over time (but not as much as some would think).
Big deal.
That ATC does define a Thru-Hiker: https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/explore-the-trail/thru-hiking/faqs"How does the ATC define thru-hiking?We define a thru-hike as a hike of the entire A.T. in 12 months or less."
The 2000 Miler application also asks you to define your hike as a Section or Thru Hike. If a Thru Hike which type; NOBO, SOBO, Alternative (Flip-Flop).
Even ATC's definition of a Thru has changed over the years as they now encourage alternative hikes to address overcrowding in the souther sections. They also use to say "one calendar year" but now say 12 months.
MuddyWaters
09-05-2016, 11:49
That ATC does define a Thru-Hiker: https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/explore-the-trail/thru-hiking/faqs"How does the ATC define thru-hiking?We define a thru-hike as a hike of the entire A.T. in 12 months or less."
The 2000 Miler application also asks you to define your hike as a Section or Thru Hike. If a Thru Hike which type; NOBO, SOBO, Alternative (Flip-Flop).
Even ATC's definition of a Thru has changed over the years as they now encourage alternative hikes to address overcrowding in the souther sections. They also use to say "one calendar year" but now say 12 months.
Thats all recordkeeping driven by escalating trail use though
Not differentiated levels of recognition for achievement
Which is where some confusion lies. Not the same.
As far as Im aware, all certificates simply say congratulations for walking the whole thing, and the year completed with patch and 2000 miler rocker.
Tipi Walter
09-05-2016, 11:59
Thats all recordkeeping driven by escalating trail use though
Not differentiated levels of recognition for achievement
Which is where some confusion lies. Not the same.
As far as Im aware, all certificates simply say congratulations for walking the whole thing, and the year completed with patch and 2000 miler rocker.
We must be pursuing two separate sports. As Lone Wolf would say, it's just walking. Or it's just backpacking. Recognition for achievement? Certificates? Backpacking is about socks and water and maps and wool and food and spoons and trails and overnights. It has nothing to do with achievement-recognition or certificates. Leave that nonsense to the Fastest Known Time types.
Some of you are clearly missing my point and some of you will never understand my point unless you completed a thru hike. I am not trying to be mean but it is the truth. Thru hikers are a different breed with a far greater goal. So when you try to compare your thoughts/experience from your section hike to anything I am talking about, it is irrelevant. There was a reason why I posted this topic in the Thru Hiking Forum Section and not elsewhere.
The point of my rant is to let former, current, and future thru hikers know about the excessive slack packing and section skipping that I witnessed (especially from young thru hikers) in the class of 2016. And how many of them would justify their actions by misusing the Hike Your Own Hike (HYOH) saying.
If you cheated on your thru hike attempt and still called yourself a thru hiker, I look at you the same way a military person views stolen valor. You are a liar, cheater, and a fraud. HYOH does not apply! If you cheaters want to tag along with real thru hikers, like hundreds of you did, don’t claim to be a thru hiker to locals in town, day hikers, section hikers, your family, yourself, or to real thru hikers.
Issue 1: Slack Packing – Yes, according to ATC, you are still considered thru hikers if you completed all the miles without skipping like I mention in my original post. Yes, some of you slack whackers did hike sections in the opposite direction to intentionally avoid large climbs up, you are pathetic for doing that. I highly doubt the ATC envisioned young able-bodied hikers abusing the slack packing when they wrote the requirements for thru hiking. Excessive slack packing by young able-bodied hikers is annoying for thru hikers to witness, not to mention you are lazy which I would bet this also mirrors your off trail life and work ethic. Maybe it is your parents fault, regardless I feel sorry for you. Did you ever wonder why the hostel owners/employees that push the slack packing option are often fat??
Issue 2: Section Skipping – You are those lazy hikers that will justify your section skipping by your blue blazing and HYOH... you know who you are! You are NOT a thru hiker according to the ATC. Don’t even try to twist the ATC words or pull out the HYOH, you are NOT a thru hiker… so quit claiming to be one on the trail. If you want to call yourself a thru hiker, then hike the entire trail! Yes, all you lazy hikers that skipped the 10-mile hike into Baxter State Park and opted for the shuttle to Millinocket, which then shuttles you to the base of Katahdin, you are not thru hikers…. 1 of many examples of your cheating.
Issue 3: HYOH – Hike Your Own Hike was intended for people who hike slow, fast, excessive zero days, no zero days, takes breaks every 30 minutes, never takes breaks, stops at every view, bypasses every view, doesn’t wear deodorant, always wears deodorant, etc. So please quit saying HYOH as a way to justify being a thru hiker.
I could easily be a sheep and brainwash myself into believing the HYOH BS but my thru hike was such an awesome experience that I will not keep my mouth shut. Attempting and completing a thru hike of the AT is something very special that words cannot describe. It is not an easy feat for anyone, even for the best. When you have fellow hikers taking are shortcuts and also calling themselves thru hikers, it is insulting not only to current thru hikers but also to former thru hikers who have completed the trail. Saying nothing and buying into their HYOH is just enabling the lazy hiking culture. As these lazy thru hiker impostors would say… if you disagree with me, then please don’t comment and go HYOH!!
HYOH is a more pleasant way of saying what it really truly means - "Mind your own ****ing business!!"
slack packing has always been a thing by people of all ages - it's not new to 2016
skipping sections big and small and still calling yourself a thru hiker has always been a thing it's not new to 2016.
"Purists" - bitching about what others are doing and judging them has always been a thing. It's annoying and a waste of time. It's life - you live yours let others live yours. Comparing it to stolen valor is silly. It's not even close.
It's normal to feel a little messed up about your experience compared to others when you get back. It took me a long time to get right with what I did and what it meant. It really doesn't matter what others did or say they did and what they tell themselves to get through the night. let it go and start planning your next hike.
it's really only on the AT that people get so hung up about it - other long distance trails have their own issues which often means people are taking alternative routes.
HYOY and get on with your life
MuddyWaters
09-05-2016, 12:23
We must be pursuing two separate sports. As Lone Wolf would say, it's just walking. Or it's just backpacking. Recognition for achievement? Certificates? Backpacking is about socks and water and maps and wool and food and spoons and trails and overnights. It has nothing to do with achievement-recognition or certificates. Leave that nonsense to the Fastest Known Time types.
Bingo
AT thru hiking, isnt really about backpacking for many
In fact, many (most?) Never do hike again. One and done.
Tipi Walter
09-05-2016, 12:31
"Purists" - bitching about what others are doing and judging them has always been a thing. It's annoying and a waste of time. It's life - you live yours let others live yours. Comparing it to stolen valor is silly. It's not even close.
But I can see his point when recognition and certificates are involved---To say you've thruhiked the AT but actually did not, and to get such recognition when in fact you skipped sections and/or slackpacked. Disingenuous. Stolen valor? Mildly so.
But I can see his point when recognition and certificates are involved---To say you've thruhiked the AT but actually did not, and to get such recognition when in fact you skipped sections and/or slackpacked. Disingenuous. Stolen valor? Mildly so.
it's comparing a vacation to military service. One comes with much deserved benefits (because of serious personal risk and sacrifice) and in some cases preferential treatment with regard to institutional hiring practices. The other is a feather in one's cap. A great accomplishment true - but come on - stolen valor?
Is it disingenuous - sure.
I remember having similar feelings and thoughts when I finished my thru - hike. It's what you are faced with everyday for (in my case) 6 months. I hated Bill Bryson for years and refused to read his book. (FYI - I've since read it and liked it.)It took awhile before I could gain some perspective. Now that it's been a while and I've hiked a couple of other long distance trails - I realize it didn't/doesn't really matter. We all go to sleep and wake up alone. What some other person did or said they did that happened to be hiking the trail at the same time as me doesn't matter.
SouthMark
09-05-2016, 14:29
From the ATC info on applying for a 2000 miler certificate:
Issues of sequence, direction, speed, length of time or whether one carries a pack are not considered.
That ATC does define a Thru-Hiker: https://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/explore-the-trail/thru-hiking/faqs"How does the ATC define thru-hiking?We define a thru-hike as a hike of the entire A.T. in 12 months or less."
Actually they don't define "thru hiker"-- they define a thru-hike.
But that is beside the point.
The ATC owns (for lack of a better word) the 2000 Miler Award. As such they have the authority to define the requirements for it anyway they like. They spell those requirements out in writing an an application for all the thesupplicants to send in.
That's all well and good-- the way it should be.
The ATC is also welcome to define thru hiking any way they wish-- just as others are free to do so. The word is descriptive, not sacred. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
That simple.
Actually they don't define "thru hiker"-- they define a thru-hike.
But that is beside the point.
The ATC owns (for lack of a better word) the 2000 Miler Award. As such they have the authority to define the requirements for it anyway they like. They spell those requirements out in writing an an application for all the thesupplicants to send in.
That's all well and good-- the way it should be.
The ATC is also welcome to define thru hiking any way they wish-- just as others are free to do so. The word is descriptive, not sacred. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
That simple.
Well then what would you call the person who completes a thru-hike? The ATC calls them a "Thru-Hiker". From the 2000 Mile application:
"ATC policy is to operate on an honor system, assuming that, if you apply for 2,000-miler status, you have madean honest effort to walk the entire Trail—as a thru-hiker or in sections."
Teacher & Snacktime
09-05-2016, 18:05
The ATC doesn't give a rodent's patootie how a hiker accomplishes their 2000 miles. They don't give certs for thruhiking, but for completing. Pack, no pack, 2000+ days of 1 mile hikes, or sections strung together in a spirograph pattern. It all adds up to the same thing, and who's to judge.
Starchild
09-05-2016, 21:27
I love the 'biblical-like' legalism in this thread. Here is another:
ATC assumes that those who apply have made an honest effort to walk the entire Trail, even if they did not walk past every white blaze.
This differentiates one who has hiked the entire trail from the necessity to walk past every single blaze. So there certainly is wiggle room of an undefined amount. Between a 'honest effort' (the requirement), and a white blaze purest.
The biggest issue with slack packing is trusting your gear to someone else. I tried it once, only to give my aggravated LCL a rest, and my pack was damaged in transit which caused me a zero and losing my group trying to sort it out. I then had to hike 50 miles with a bent pack frame to get the replacement. Another hiker slackpacking with me had food stolen out of his pack. There were about 8 of us slackpacking Woody Gap to Neel Gap, and our packs were left out in front of Mountain Crossings on the sidewalk. The Wolfpen Gap Hostel told us they would be delivered to Mountain Crossings and stored inside where we would have to show ID to pick them up. Avoid that dump like the plague.
I love the 'biblical-like' legalism in this thread. Here is another:
This differentiates one who has hiked the entire trail from the necessity to walk past every single blaze. So there certainly is wiggle room of an undefined amount. Between a 'honest effort' (the requirement), and a white blaze purest.
While I cannot prove it, I am convinced that the ATC made that update after it was observed in a contentious White Blaze debate that Earl Shaffer would not have qualified as a 2000 miler under their prior definition-- and some suggested (sarcastically, of course) that his name should be removed from the historical record.
It was well known that before being accepted by the ATC as the first person to become a 2000 miler by the way of a thru hike, Earl freely shared with them that he missed some of the official trail in the Whites (but took blue blaze trails at least as long) because his maps did not arrive on time.
The prior ATC written standard did not allow for even that kind of benign deviation.
Or to put it another way, the ATC updated their definition to reflect common sense, and the "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" standard.
Wolf - 23000
09-05-2016, 22:58
To second point: So true. Whenever I find myself on the AT during a backpacking trip I am amazed by these so-called "experts" HOLDING COURT at picnic tables by trail shelters. They invite questions from the drooling onlookers and "newbs" but never themselves ask any questions. They've been on the trail for 2 whole months and will now take your questions as they portray a cool trail weariness. It's laughable.
One time I met such a fellow at Thomas Knob shelter by Mt Rogers and he went on and on about his trail experience. I managed to get in one question: "Have you ever camped in snow??" "No" was all he said. Scratch another expert off the list.
I get a lot of crap for my comments that many "expert hikers" are not the experts they make themselves out to be, including some famous hikers. There are only a few hikers that I would consider as really knowing their stuff. The “experts” HOLDING COURT hikers that you are referring to in trail shelters, I see selling books, videos, talks, etc. Where it makes a different is it reflects the next year hikers. The hiking world has changed from when I did the bulk of my hiking. More money and less wilderness skills has been the answer by so many. It not my style of hiking but it the way the hiking community has turn towards.
Wolf
MuddyWaters
09-05-2016, 23:21
To second point: So true. Whenever I find myself on the AT during a backpacking trip I am amazed by these so-called "experts" HOLDING COURT at picnic tables by trail shelters. They invite questions from the drooling onlookers and "newbs" but never themselves ask any questions. They've been on the trail for 2 whole months and will now take your questions as they portray a cool trail weariness. It's laughable.
One time I met such a fellow at Thomas Knob shelter by Mt Rogers and he went on and on about his trail experience. I managed to get in one question: "Have you ever camped in snow??" "No" was all he said. Scratch another expert off the list.
But at the same time, someone with 1 months experience, knows what works much better than probably 75% of newbs hitting springer. So.......
I like to believe halfway intelligent folks can separate the wheat from the chaff for themselves. And blowhards can be comically entertaining sometimes as well. :)
Wolf - 23000
09-05-2016, 23:46
I have thru hiked yet I think you may need a long hike to chill a bit. While I have never slack packed or yellow blazed I couldn't give a rats azz if others do a one, two skip a few 99, 100 approach to their hikeor hire a Sherpa to carry their pack. You keep throwing the term "abusing" around. Really? Do you think because you just walked 2000 miles that you are now the singular source of the truth on how one should hike?
Finally, as to your comment "if you disagree with me, then please don't comment and go HYOH!!" This shows your immaturity. You are just looking for validation and are upset that everyone didn't hail you as a hiking sage.
Mags, when you return we need you HMHDI post.
Malto,
It is easy to say HYOH and there is an large amount of truth to the phrase. It can also be extremely annoying when someone claiming to be something they are not and share their "expert knowledge". Some of them even go as far as write books, make videos, teach courses, etc. It is often the hikers that know their stuff, that are the ones who correct some of the non-sense out there. It is a little annoying when new hikers after new hikers ask the same question over and over again because some put out some general information.
If someone has never hiked or camp in the White Mountains for example, how can they be expected to help someone hike the White Mountains. It is even worst when someone goes as far to claiming they have done them but really have never done them.
Wolf
Wolf - 23000
09-05-2016, 23:58
But at the same time, someone with 1 months experience, knows what works much better than probably 75% of newbs hitting springer. So.......
I like to believe halfway intelligent folks can separate the wheat from the chaff for themselves. And blowhards can be comically entertaining sometimes as well. :)
I would be so sure of that statement. There are many people who believe Bill Bryson's book on the AT is true.
A little knowledge can also be dangerous. Do you think it would be a good idea if a Southbounder were to give advise on what equipment a Northbound hiker should start off with? Generally speaking, Southbounders start when the weather is warm, compare to Northbounders who start when the weather is cold.
Wolf
MuddyWaters
09-06-2016, 00:07
I would be so sure of that statement. There are many people who believe Bill Bryson's book on the AT is true.
A little knowledge can also be dangerous. Do you think it would be a good idea if a Southbounder were to give advise on what equipment a Northbound hiker should start off with? Generally speaking, Southbounders start when the weather is warm, compare to Northbounders who start when the weather is cold.
Wolf
I think...if people are intelligent enough to think a bit for themselves...and ask reasonable questions....and sift thru responses for those that make sense to them...then they will have no real problems.
People getting flawed information, and going out and dieing, is somewhat of a hypothetical scenario.
Yeah, theres some real idiots out there. In my experience, those are folks that dont ask questions, and even if given good advice, refuse to listen.
jjozgrunt
09-06-2016, 00:19
At the risk of putting a target on my back, I'm glad I will never have to bushwalk with the OP as they are far too inflexible for me. They seemingly can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that everyone is different, everyone will be bushwalking the AT for different reasons, and have different expectations of both themselves and the trail. Some will never hike again and this will be one of their great adventures, some want to go past every white blaze, some want to get there the fastest, some will slack pack as much as possible, some will blue/aqua/yellow blaze, ( I hope there is someone that gets up earlier than me as I hate to silk blaze), some are coming just to walk on a different continent and meet different people and see different vegetation and animals (bears only at a distance please).
What a boring world it would be if we were all the same. I'm no 'Expert' I just like to bushwalk my way and have done so on 4 continents and for 38 years, this will be my 5th. How I do the trail and how other people do it should not concern anyone but themselves. If they want to claim a bit of paper, so what, does it really lessen what you have done. I'm sure if some people had their way you'd get issued with a GPS monitor at the start and any deviations would have to be explained. The original poster well done on doing the trail your way, as for the rest of your waffle you've already had 14.59 seconds, too much of fame .
Enjoy your bushwalking everyone, explore somewhere new, suck in those lungfuls of fresh air, smell a rose if you can find one, and above all have fun and be safe. If you hear a melodious aussie accent of a 50+ young man on the trail, please say hi, as meeting you is one of the many reasons I'll be on the trail.
Wolf - 23000
09-06-2016, 01:38
At the risk of putting a target on my back, I'm glad I will never have to bushwalk with the OP as they are far too inflexible for me. They seemingly can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that everyone is different, everyone will be bushwalking the AT for different reasons, and have different expectations of both themselves and the trail. Some will never hike again and this will be one of their great adventures, some want to go past every white blaze, some want to get there the fastest, some will slack pack as much as possible, some will blue/aqua/yellow blaze, ( I hope there is someone that gets up earlier than me as I hate to silk blaze), some are coming just to walk on a different continent and meet different people and see different vegetation and animals (bears only at a distance please).
What a boring world it would be if we were all the same. I'm no 'Expert' I just like to bushwalk my way and have done so on 4 continents and for 38 years, this will be my 5th. How I do the trail and how other people do it should not concern anyone but themselves. If they want to claim a bit of paper, so what, does it really lessen what you have done. I'm sure if some people had their way you'd get issued with a GPS monitor at the start and any deviations would have to be explained. The original poster well done on doing the trail your way, as for the rest of your waffle you've already had 14.59 seconds, too much of fame .
Enjoy your bushwalking everyone, explore somewhere new, suck in those lungfuls of fresh air, smell a rose if you can find one, and above all have fun and be safe. If you hear a melodious aussie accent of a 50+ young man on the trail, please say hi, as meeting you is one of the many reasons I'll be on the trail.
jjozgrunt,
I don't think you are putting a target on your back andhow you choice to hike your hike, well that is up to you. For me, it more abouthikers taking credit for things they didn't do that is the really issue. Orclaiming to be "expert hikers" more than what they really know. Ihave never been to Australia. One day, I love to visit your country but rightnow I have never been there. It would been reckless on my part to claim I havebeen there and offer my “expert advice” on what someone else should pack for abushwalk. Well that is what many hikers are doing.
Wolf
Starchild
09-06-2016, 08:16
While I cannot prove it, I am convinced that the ATC made that update after it was observed in a contentious White Blaze debate that Earl Shaffer would not have qualified as a 2000 miler under their prior definition-- and some suggested (sarcastically, of course) that his name should be removed from the historical record.
It was well known that before being accepted by the ATC as the first person to become a 2000 miler by the way of a thru hike, Earl freely shared with them that he missed some of the official trail in the Whites (but took blue blaze trails at least as long) because his maps did not arrive on time.
The prior ATC written standard did not allow for even that kind of benign deviation.
Or to put it another way, the ATC updated their definition to reflect common sense, and the "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" standard.
That makes a lot of sense and puts the term 'thru hiker' in perspective, as the person who started the activity defines what is needed to accomplish it by how they did it. In the sense that
you can do more, but at least have to come up to that same standard to have accomplished the same thing.
It is correct and good to go to the first known thru hike to help set the definition.
Thanks
Malto,
It is easy to say HYOH and there is an large amount of truth to the phrase. It can also be extremely annoying when someone claiming to be something they are not and share their "expert knowledge". Some of them even go as far as write books, make videos, teach courses, etc. It is often the hikers that know their stuff, that are the ones who correct some of the non-sense out there. It is a little annoying when new hikers after new hikers ask the same question over and over again because some put out some general information.
If someone has never hiked or camp in the White Mountains for example, how can they be expected to help someone hike the White Mountains. It is even worst when someone goes as far to claiming they have done them but really have never done them.
Wolf
I complete agree with you on all points above. I just don't get as worked up over it because I'm not hiking for any other reason other than pure selfish enjoyment.
On on the expert point. I believe Mags has written about how little experience normal long trail hiker really have, Tipi has also hit this point. A typical season AT give a very shallow level of experience. The funny part is that many "lowly" weekend and section hikers actually have vastly more experience in different terrains, conditions etc than someone who has completed a thru hike. Miles doesn't necessarily equal experience.
claybonnyman
09-29-2016, 21:32
Bless me, Father White Walker, for I have sinned.
I'd never heard of "slack packing" before starting the AT this summer. However — and I realize this makes me a loser, an abject scumbag who really shouldn't even claim to have hiked the trail, a groveling cheater who deserves death many times over — after flip-flopping, I slacked Katahdin. Worse — much worse; I shudder to admit it now — I slacked 21 miles from Pinkham Notch to Highway 2 in one day, because I was too much of a p***y to do Wildcat Ridge-Pinkham SOBO/downhill. Worse yet, I slacked the Kinsmans (Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch) NOBO, even though at that point I was SOBO, once more because I was so very fearful — this time of descending South Kinsman SOBO.
I. Am. So. Ashamed.
Please, Father White Walker, won't you absolve me of my 54-year-old slack-packing sins on my (now I KNOW!) non-thru hike of the AT in 2016? So, so wrong of me to have ruined my hike (and worse, my all-important hiker ranking) from Georgia to Maine by allowing myself to be seduced into not carrying my full pack for those three sections. I know, too, that flip-flopping was a very sketchy way to go about all this.
But I count my blessings that I now know the true way to hike. Mea culpa, Father, mea maxima culpa.
FreeGoldRush
09-29-2016, 21:49
Bless me, Father White Walker, for I have sinned.
I'd never heard of "slack packing" before starting the AT this summer. However — and I realize this makes me a loser, an abject scumbag who really shouldn't even claim to have hiked the trail, a groveling cheater who deserves death many times over — after flip-flopping, I slacked Katahdin. Worse — much worse; I shudder to admit it now — I slacked 21 miles from Pinkham Notch to Highway 2 in one day, because I was too much of a p***y to do Wildcat Ridge-Pinkham SOBO/downhill. Worse yet, I slacked the Kinsmans (Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch) NOBO, even though at that point I was SOBO, once more because I was so very fearful — this time of descending South Kinsman SOBO.
I. Am. So. Ashamed.
Please, Father White Walker, won't you absolve me of my 54-year-old slack-packing sins on my (now I KNOW!) non-thru hike of the AT in 2016? So, so wrong of me to have ruined my hike (and worse, my all-important hiker ranking) from Georgia to Maine by allowing myself to be seduced into not carrying my full pack for those three sections. I know, too, that flip-flopping was a very sketchy way to go about all this.
But I count my blessings that I now know the true way to hike. Mea culpa, Father, mea maxima culpa.
Next time you'll add 15 pounds of rocks to your pack just to make sure you have some safety margin that separates yourself from the slackers. A heavy pack will become a thing of envy.
:)
The AT 2000 miler certificate is strictly a congratulatory certificate by ATC of a self substantiated statement by an individual. If someone is so hard up or delusional that they want to lie about the entire hike, ATC will gladly send them a certificate. If someone wants to lie to themselves and others that they are 2000 miler that's their choice. I didn't sign a register at Springer or at KSC and yet I know I did the entire trail.....HYOH
+1 Nailed it in the bold. HOWEVER, it is not just about their choice because they are lying....being dishonorable.... to others as if that is A OK. Their word is shart. I'll occasionally call out people for their fabrications. It's lame watching them backpedal as they are outed in a crowd. Lying to me about hiking something you didn't I sniff that crap right out with 3 or 4 pointed questions. Your credibility is shot. Go wipe your arse with your Certificate.
MANY PEOPLE have all manner of convoluted justifications, hesitations, lame explanations, and crazy rationalizations why it is A OK to be DISHONORABLE...TO LIE!
And, if that by itself is not enough here it is why it is also lame and wrong.
Not exactly. As I understand it, the ATC recognizes thru-hikers, and that accomplishment has some social currency. If the sense of accomplishment were purely internal, there would be no point in ever claiming to have thru-hiked the AT.
Those who falsely claim it (including those who add their own exceptions to the ATC definition) devalue the currency. It is human nature to be bothered by such things. Nothing wrong with trying to uphold a defined standard. OTOH, perhaps the ATC should get out of the business of recognizing people who self-certify the accomplishment. Imagine if colleges/universities did the same.
I wrote more, but lost it due to automatic logout. I wish I had time to re-create it, but I need to get back to my dissertation for my third Ph.D. ;)
I'm on my 25th Ph.D. I'm running for the presidential nomination too. I should fit right in. ;)
“In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”
― C.S. Lewis (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis), The Abolition of Man (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/14823978)
cneill13
10-01-2016, 04:49
TheWhiteWalker, and I do like the The, while not a thru hiker (yet, I have a job and family to deal with), I agree with your post. I think slack-packing is a sign of our society, we want the satisfaction of having done something but don't want to sacrifice the entire effort.
Just look around at the typical American - fat, dumb and lazy.
Nice post. Congrats on completing the AT, the right way.
Carl
If how someone else chooses to go about getting from point A to point B somehow detracts from your satisfaction in having gone about the journey, I think you are looking outwardly for satisfaction when you should be a bit more introspective. The true joy in any accomplishment lies in the satisfaction of a job well done, often while overcoming obstacles along the way. Defining what it means to do it well is really up to you. If someone else defines it differently, that's on them.
Who really cares how others go about their hike, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else. I would argue that if someone slackpacking somehow detracts from your experience or sense of accomplishment, maybe you need to get more comfortable in your own skin.
I, along with my wife, will be attempting to thru-hike next year and we intend to be "purists". Not because we feel it somehow elevates us, or that it's correct in some way. Simply because it's how we envision ourselves completing the journey and I have read that purists tend to have a higher success rate, probably due to an OCD need to walk every foot of the trail. But, if someone walks some lesser percentage of the trail or walks it without a pack, that has no effect on how we'll feel about our accomplishment after getting up Katahdin. And frankly, I couldn't care less how someone else feels about it.
I hope I can learn many lessons on the trip, this is one life already taught me.
pilgrimskywheel
10-01-2016, 17:33
Slack packing is a product for sale: thru-hiking sans pack. Why is this a problem trail geniuses? Because when you systematically remove the challenges of hiking it becomes attractive to more consumers, and sales people. It means a more crowded trail, both in terms of "hikers" and support vehicles. The new must have piece of hiking gear: a 12 passenger van. Back to nature! Funny how all those shuttles seem to end where you can buy things.
bosborne
10-02-2016, 14:14
Thank you Ken.
twilightzone
10-02-2016, 16:59
It seems like the core problem is the ego of everyone involved.
My goal was to complete a thru-hike without any slack-packing or skipping a single blaze, which I did. As it turned out the only one who cared about that goal before, during or after completing the hike was me.
FreeGoldRush
10-02-2016, 20:01
It seems like the core problem is the ego of everyone involved.
My goal was to complete a thru-hike without any slack-packing or skipping a single blaze, which I did. As it turned out the only one who cared about that goal before, during or after completing the hike was me.
I find that admirable, but find that age makes it a real challenge to sleep on a thin mat. It surprises me how much it wrecks my body. Hiking is a relaxing break from the painful night before. So my thru hike will likely consist of more hotel stops than the average, even if carrying a full pack, which may result in carrying less food on average. Is that somehow cheating or slacking? Maybe so, but you have to work within your physical limitations and find solutions.
evyck da fleet
10-02-2016, 20:49
So if a business owner wants to generate more revenue by offering slack packing shuttles which leads to another night of bunk revenue and there are willing customers of all ages whether they have been slack packing at every opportunity or just want to try it, they are cheating? Is resupplying every three days instead of five cheating because its not as much of a wilderness experience? What about tenting at Mountain Harbor which is a few tenths off the trail? Is that the start of a new section hike whereas tenting at a shelter .5 miles down a blue blaze from the AT would be continuous? Is shipping winter gear home in Virginia and receiving it back in New Hampshire partial slack packing? Would it be OK if I gave my gear away in Virginia and bought new gear in NH? Is it cheating to spend $10,000 on a thru hike and stay in a hotel in every town?
I know hikers who went blue blazing in the Shennys, road walked it or took the Creeper Trail out of Damascus. I guess they are all cheating and not allowed to claim they hiked the entire AT because they honestly didn't try to. I also know hikers who skipped 100 miles to catch up to their hiking friends, skipped about the same because they said they were going to run out of time and a hiker who missed 8 miles because he got dropped off at the road closest to where he had to leave the trail the prior year by the guy who picked him up while hitching. I imagine they all claim they've hiked the whole thing when asked and maybe some of them add a qualifier but...
None of that has anything to do with my hike. When I think back on my hike its about what I saw and did with the people I hiked with and not what others who happened to be around me on a certain day did. Don't let what others do distract from your enjoyment.
PaulWorksHard
10-05-2016, 14:10
For me, a "thru hike" means I hiked the entire AT, always in the same direction, and carried my pack from Amicalola to the top of Katahdin. I understand that is not the ATC definition. That being said, I don't understand how it can be a thru hike if you are generally heading NOBO, but occasionally hike SOBO (say moosilauke) to make your hike easier. My biggest issue is with the large number of Aqua blazers who claim they are thru hikers when, in fact, they skipped 100 miles of the trail.
Question for purists- On a recent section hike I got off the AT and took a roadwalk about .3 miles to a public campground, where I stayed for the night. They directed me to the tenting area at the rear of the campground, and advised me there was a side trail from the tenting area that led directly to the AT. In the morning I took the side trail and continued my hike, instead of going back out the entrance and back up the road to where I got off. Thereby skipping a .1 to .2 mile section of the trail itself. If I am ever successful in section hiking the entire trail will I be tainted?
Question for purists- On a recent section hike I got off the AT and took a roadwalk about .3 miles to a public campground, where I stayed for the night. They directed me to the tenting area at the rear of the campground, and advised me there was a side trail from the tenting area that led directly to the AT. In the morning I took the side trail and continued my hike, instead of going back out the entrance and back up the road to where I got off. Thereby skipping a .1 to .2 mile section of the trail itself. If I am ever successful in section hiking the entire trail will I be tainted?
Only you can answer that...
I think I'll be able to live with myself.
dudeijuststarted
10-05-2016, 23:19
For me, a "thru hike" means I hiked the entire AT, always in the same direction, and carried my pack from Amicalola to the top of Katahdin. I understand that is not the ATC definition. That being said, I don't understand how it can be a thru hike if you are generally heading NOBO, but occasionally hike SOBO (say moosilauke) to make your hike easier. My biggest issue is with the large number of Aqua blazers who claim they are thru hikers when, in fact, they skipped 100 miles of the trail.
I flip flopped and have done tons of section hiking. Alternative thrus have tons of benefits, discussed elsewhere, and are actively encouraged. Check your guide then check your thinking. Moosilauke is way harder SOBO. NOBO is pure? MacKaye thought otherwise. Or maybe Earl Schaeffer's thru is the gold standard...wait, he had to fill in blanks and blaze his own trail periodically the whole way. Seems to me, and I've seen demonstrated, that Maine is way harder than Georgia for someone without 2000 miles of practice and the Whites under their legs. The trail evolves constantly. Magnetic declination has nothing to do with terrain difficulty. Hike every incline/decline both ways then make your decision. Aqua blazing...I'd agree on that, but wouldn't take away from the value of their journey.
And to the OP's post, I'm 37 years old with mild scoliosis and kyphosis of the spine, and have no problem using a slackpack to cheer me up or avoid a zero. It's just walking on dirt, nobody's getting a nobel prize for this.
andsoshewalks
10-07-2016, 15:06
i feel like it's hard to consider them lazy when they are still hiking 2000+ miles
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I never thru hiked (I'm just a lowly 2000 miler) but did a lot of things differently.
I slack packed a few bits near Andover, Maine. Day-hiked a few bits in the White Mountains and near Rangeley ME. Bike-hiked all through New England. Walked Skyline Drive for a few miles in SNP, just to see what that was about, and because a lot of old-time thru hikers did that as well.
I've skied many of the ski areas on or near the AT -- Stratton, Killington, Pico, Wildcat, Sunday River, Sugarloaf. (Plus Sugarbush, Mad River, Stowe, and Jay Peak on the Long Trail.) I broke my femur skiing at Sunday River. A year later I walked 600+ miles of AT with a 40+ lb. pack and with the stainless steel hardware still in my leg.
Can't say I've aqua-blazed any part of the AT, but I've rafted on the Penobscot River, within sight of Mt. Katahdin. Climbed most of the major peaks in the White Mountains before I ever gave much thought to the AT.
jbmundy87
11-08-2016, 16:27
I think you miss the meaning of HYOH! People set out for different reasons. Maybe they are lazy and still want to see as much as possible. But I feel HYOH is more about only compare your hike to your own expectations and goals. Don't compare others hikes with your expectations and goals. This is difficult. I thru hiked in 2016 as well, slack packed 35 miles and blue blazed maybe another 5 (for better views or more difficult/longer routes). I did see people skipping anywhere from 20-hundreds of miles, but it isn't for me to judge them or their hikes. I am proud of what I did. I walked every single foot from Springer Mt. Georgia to Mt. Katahdin Maine.
It's a millennial state of mind..... I never slack packed. I enjoyed a night or two in a hotel though during resupplies however.
TylerJ76
12-05-2016, 15:28
It's a millennial state of mind..... I never slack packed. I enjoyed a night or two in a hotel though during resupplies however.
Bull****.
:rolleyes:
plodalong
12-05-2016, 17:27
You are to be congratulated! You finished the trail and I must assume by the tone of your self described rant that you are 'not young'. I hope you take the time to review your post because they barely mask your angry sense of moral superiority. I suspect you want those of us who are also 'not young' to chime in with tones of shared outrage and dismay at the young and lazy and less morally pure. If that is your goal then I am sure you will find many willing to sit around your campfire and bemoan the young, judge their work ethic and chastise their integrity. As for this 'not young' hiker I will be moving on to find another place to set my tent feeling only sadness for your campfire circle.. The 17th Century prayer of a 'not young' nun observed. "I do not want to be a saint - some of them are so hard to live with. But a sour old person is one of the crowning works of the devil."
Yellow blazing and slack packing for someone in prime shape is a poor excuse to try to be cool. All I'm saying is a person who is truly trying to do the whole thing shouldn't be look down on. Trail is Trail in my eyes. Every mile is out there for a reason and just because you think a section is boring takes away from the experience. There is beauty in everything depending which lense you choose to look at it. You wouldn't watch a whole movie like the lord of the rings and only watch the battle scenes and feel like you watched the whole thing.
As a purist southbounder, who is 23, I came to realization in VA that only 1 in 4 people who say they completed a thru hike to ATC missed less than 20 miles. I guess the people who took 3-8 months out of their lives will have to live with their decision to cheat themselves...
HYOH or whatever but to future thru hikers I would give this advice. Learn how to balance your trail life. The social aspect of the trail is just as important the actual hiking itself as well. But when one gets bigger than the other you become the entitle thru hiker. Hikers are hikers no matter thru, section, or day.
speedbump
12-13-2016, 18:16
Well said. I am in my 50's and I slack. (I am a section hiker, or is this 'lazy' too). Some of us do not have the luxury of taking 6 months off from life to boast about not slacking. HYOH
You are to be congratulated! You finished the trail and I must assume by the tone of your self described rant that you are 'not young'. I hope you take the time to review your post because they barely mask your angry sense of moral superiority. I suspect you want those of us who are also 'not young' to chime in with tones of shared outrage and dismay at the young and lazy and less morally pure. If that is your goal then I am sure you will find many willing to sit around your campfire and bemoan the young, judge their work ethic and chastise their integrity. As for this 'not young' hiker I will be moving on to find another place to set my tent feeling only sadness for your campfire circle.. The 17th Century prayer of a 'not young' nun observed. "I do not want to be a saint - some of them are so hard to live with. But a sour old person is one of the crowning works of the devil."
jjozgrunt
12-14-2016, 00:32
You are to be congratulated! You finished the trail and I must assume by the tone of your self described rant that you are 'not young'. I hope you take the time to review your post because they barely mask your angry sense of moral superiority. I suspect you want those of us who are also 'not young' to chime in with tones of shared outrage and dismay at the young and lazy and less morally pure. If that is your goal then I am sure you will find many willing to sit around your campfire and bemoan the young, judge their work ethic and chastise their integrity. As for this 'not young' hiker I will be moving on to find another place to set my tent feeling only sadness for your campfire circle.. The 17th Century prayer of a 'not young' nun observed. "I do not want to be a saint - some of them are so hard to live with. But a sour old person is one of the crowning works of the devil."
Perfect, could not agree more. Maybe we'll start our own camp fire.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by cspan http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/120636-My-2016-Thru-Hike-Excessive-Slack-Packing/showthread.php?p=2089975#post2089975)
Not exactly. As I understand it, the ATC recognizes thru-hikers, and that accomplishment has some social currency. If the sense of accomplishment were purely internal, there would be no point in ever claiming to have thru-hiked the AT.
You may understand it that way, but it is factually incorrect to say the ATC recognizes thu-hikers.
They do not.
The ATC does hand out 2000 Mile Certificates(Awards) and doesn't hand out all of GA AT Mile Certificates(Awards). Doesn't seem that far reaching that special recognition is given to 2000 Milers verse those who hike 500 AT Miles unless there is a new 500 Mile Certificate(Award) handed out by the ATC I don't know about. :-?
Not exactly. As I understand it, the ATC recognizes thru-hikers, and that accomplishment has some social currency. If the sense of accomplishment were purely internal, there would be no point in ever claiming to have thru-hiked the AT.
Those who falsely claim it (including those who add their own exceptions to the ATC definition) devalue the currency. It is human nature to be bothered by such things. Nothing wrong with trying to uphold a defined standard. OTOH, perhaps the ATC should get out of the business of recognizing people who self-certify the accomplishment. Imagine if colleges/universities did the same...
...it more about hikers taking credit for things they didn't do that is the really issue.
This is a different topic Cspan and Wolf 23000 are referring to than slack packing as BonBon stated earlier
Agree with all these posters. Very well said.
HYOH but don't lie or cheat concerning the details of your hike especially to get recognized in some way.
I thought they were called yellow blazers?
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It's a free country, er, well in theory anyway. HYOH applies.
ScareBear
12-16-2016, 15:37
Honestly? Who cares?
In my rec and social circles, thru-hiking the AT isn't much cred, social or performance-wise. Nobody I know or hang with would dare or care to lie about doing it if they really didn't. I can't imagine a social setting or professional setting where it would get you enough cred to..say...get a date...or a job interview because of it. You don't get pro discounts on gear for doing it. In fact, I would venture to say you probably can't even dine or get a free drink because of it.
Therefore, who would lie about it?
Narcissists. Pathological liars. People with no self-esteem. People with no morals. Untrustworthy people.
And, guess what? I've lived long enough on this planet to spot any of the above. Anyone who tells me they've thru-hiked the AT, PCT, CT, CDT or even bagged Long's Peak in January gets a thorough once-over. I've met some bald-faced liars in my day. Only two people have lied to me about thru hiking. One was the AT and the other was the CDT. I've met far more liars who have claimed to bagged Rainier, Denali, etc...than claim to thru-hike. Hell, I've met more people who claimed to have bagged Rainier than anything else. Why? I have no clue...
DSPeabody
06-04-2019, 18:28
Wait..what? You walked 2000 miles from Georgia to Maine?!?
You lazy S.O.B!!!
perdidochas
06-05-2019, 13:37
You just don't seem to understand! These slackpackers and yellow blazers are enjoying their vacation the wrong way! We need do something about it! :rolleyes:
Fun fact, the earliest A.T. hiker known to have been accused of yellowblazing was Grandma Gatewood. Earl Schaffer was the accuser.
Great post. The problem is that everybody thinks their way to hike is right. I don't have a dog in this fight (not being a thru-hiker), but my general view based on common sense is that slackpacking is not a bad thing, but yellowblazing or blueblazing shortcuts seem to be. That said, it's on the honor system, and it's all up to the hiker.