Cold weather sleep options - 2 quilts

[jjozgrunt]

G'day

Not used to cold weather especially below 30 degrees, and that is rare, usually around the 40 degree mark. I will actually be coming from 90+ degree days to whatever the temperature is in a March Georgia. I have been looking at getting a 20 degree quilt but then bingo! what about using the two I already have. I have 30 and 50 degree down quilts. Weight not bothered but the difference is about 11 ozs heavier than using a 20 degree quilt, and only puts my usual pack loaded weight (4days food and 2 lts water) up to 28lb. What I can't find is any sort of scale to give me a combined temperature rating of both combined. Any ideas? Should I just bite the bullet and splash the cash on another quilt?:-?

[Just Tom]

This page has just such a chart:

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/blog/quilts-106-quilt-layering-for-cold-temps/

It claims a 30 and a 50 give you a 10 degree limit

[jjozgrunt]

MMM nice and toasty especially for my thin blood. Thanks for that.

[Hikingjim]

Good info above.
Just make sure you have a good sleeping pad if it's cold weather and you're going with just quilts
if temps are around or just below freezing, I would recommend r-value of at least 4 (personal opinion, not scientific!)

[jjozgrunt]

The pad I use has a rating of 3.3, I suppose I could use it with my Gossamer gear 1/4 inch thin light, will only add about 5ozs.

[couscous]

Put the 30F quilt on top to avoid compressing the down. You may also consider carrying a SOL Emergency Bivy for the bottom layer on colder nights. https://www.rei.com/product/813511/sol-emergency-bivy

[Hikingjim]

even if you were to get a 20f quilt, it would probably not be warm enough on its own for a march start. So if your 2 quilts do give you 10f rating, the extra warmth is good
a lot of people with a 20 quilt also bring a liner or a summer sleeping bag for a march start then send it home. gets pretty chilly.

so, based on what you said I would bring the extra pad

you can send some or all of your extra stuff home after a couple months. The cold sticks around for awhile at any decent elevation

There may be lighter options, but I don't think your stuff would be overly heavy.

[jjozgrunt]

Home may be a problem! and expensive. Basically at the moment what I start with is there for the whole hike.

[Hosh]

If you have EE quilts, then you will want this strap for the layering of 2 quilts, http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/sub-zero-strap-quilt-layering-strap/

If it's snaps are incompatible to your quilt, you might be able to modify. EE will sell the individual piece parts.

With out straps, I think the top quilt would tend to "roll off" unless your are a very immobile sleeper.

[colorado_rob]

I did a little study a couple years back and found that about R4 to 5, depending on assumptions on ground and air temperature, was pretty much optimal for cold weather sleeping. Anything above R5, one would be better off using extra ounces for insulation on top, vs. extra R value weight in the pad. I can share later if anyone interested, but I'll be gone for a couple weeks.

With respect to sleeping bag/quilt stacking, I just go be total loft, using the conservative Western Mountaineering sleeping bag specs, like here:

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/product-details/sleeping-bags-specification-chart/

Fir example, look at the 45 deg bag at the top, 3" of loft (total). Look down the chart, and see the 5.5 and 6.5 loft bags, rated 20 and 10 degree respectively, meaning 6" of loft should be good for about 15 degrees. So two 45 degree bags are good for one 15, conservatively. To be comfy to 0 degrees, 7 degrees of loft, etc.

[gbolt]

If it is about inches of loft, than the lighter (i.e. Higher temp quilt) should go on top in order to not weight down or crush the loft of the heavier lower temp quilt. Is my reasoning correct and now substantiated? Inquiry minds want to know!

[Dogwood]

G'day

Not used to cold weather especially below 30 degrees,… I will actually be coming from 90+ degree days to whatever the temperature is in a March Georgia. I have been looking at getting a 20 degree quilt but then bingo! what about using the two I already have?…


Rewind! STOP. Questionable way to start a March NOBO if you don't know the likely lowest temps you'll be facing over the first 45 days or so! Once you know this you can talk about sleep systems and warmth. MAYBE not as toasty as you think?

Also, so you're anticipating carrying both quilts through warming temps???

[jjozgrunt]

Rewind! STOP. Questionable way to start a March NOBO if you don't know the likely lowest temps you'll be facing over the first 45 days or so! Once you know this you can talk about sleep systems and warmth. MAYBE not as toasty as you think?

Also, so you're anticipating carrying both quilts through warming temps???

Funny did not mention not knowing the temperature in Georgia, NC or TN over the first month, people with esp always amaze me with their skill. :)

Day I plan to start (next year) this year it was 31 -54 F. Coldest was in the GSMNP of 8 F. Temperatures below 20F are what puffy jackets, fleeces and good thermals, headgear and, merino and possum fur socks are for. Although I am not used to those temperatures I have hiked the AAWT in Aussie Alps 3 times down to -7 and snow, about 100 days in total.

Yes at the moment what I start with is what I finish with, unless I throw something away, doesn't faze me at all. It would be nice to get rid of the winter stuff but 4 or 5 lbs is nothing. We don't have towns as frequently on aussie long tracks so carrying 7 - 10 days worth of food is not uncommon, as is 6 or more liters of water in drier areas, used to bigger weights on the back.

The more I have thought about it the more I like the flexibility that two quilts will give me. Good EE quilts so not much weight and one is actually wider and longer that the other already so that works out well. Quite looking forward to a prolonged bushwalk in cold temperatures, beats a prolonged bushwalk in 90+ temperatures any day of the year.

[MuddyWaters]

It works OK
But when it gets really cold, you need a helluva down hood for you head
My down hood is lacking at 20F
And the quilts dont stay together great, and dont add up quite like youd hope.
Since they arent one piece, or tightly together, air leaks in between them, and its downright cold in there. Even icy.
Drafts become much bigger problem as well

My experience....Id rather have a proper bag under 20 and sleep snug and warm, than fight layered quilts routinely. Lighter too.

[jjozgrunt]

It works OK
But when it gets really cold, you need a helluva down hood for you head
My down hood is lacking at 20F
And the quilts dont stay together great, and dont add up quite like youd hope.
Since they arent one piece, or tightly together, air leaks in between them, and its downright cold in there. Even icy.
Drafts become much bigger problem as well

My experience....Id rather have a proper bag under 20 and sleep snug and warm, than fight layered quilts routinely. Lighter too.

Looking on the EE site they have a strap to join them both together and I have just ordered that. Have a 30f down hood and a thick merino/possum fur double thickness beanie and a light merino balaclava so should be okay layered up on the worse nights.

Ideally one 20f bag/quilt would be better but I needed something for the warmer temperatures so this looks like being the go for me. I have been following some people over the last 2 years who did it with only a 30F bag and clothes and although they had some cold nights they managed. Always have to option to retreat down to town if it's not cutting it during a cold spell. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks for all the info and thoughts guys, I appreciate it.

[Abi]

Instead of carrying things the whole way or throwing them away, you just need to find someone in the USA to ship to/from while you are here :)

[MuddyWaters]

Always have to option to retreat down to town if it's not cutting it during a cold spell. Better safe than sorry.



Yes
Many early starters blow much of their trail budget in first month due to this.

Proper gear for expected cold temps would have been cheaper for them often

[jeffmeh]

Sounds to me like you have a plan that you are comfortable with. You could consider a "bounce box" and just mailing things you want to jettison general delivery to a US Post Office for you to pick up later. Some of the hostels will accept those deliveries also, but may want compensation if you are not going to stay there.

Now, if it were me and I had the funds, I would go for the 20F quilt, an R3+ inflatable, and a thin closed cell foam, and bring enough clothing so that if I were to wear all of it (except for the wet hiking clothes) I would be fine for the coldest nights. A merino balaclava and a warm hat round out the sleep wear. :)

[Just Bill]

Temps- Formula as stated is correct- 50+30= 10*F FOR AN AVERAGE MALE. At 58 years old and an admitted thin blooded (and female?) person- that is probably at least 10-15* off.
So sounds like YOU have a 25* combo. Here's a simple test- how close to 50* do you get in your 50* bag? That will tell you how much colder than average you sleep.

Pad- yes- you need to add the foam to your R3 ish pad for winter.

Stacking- The 50* down should be put over the 30* (all things being equal on size).
If there are stacking issues with sizes, like the 50* is compressing the 30*, then put size ahead of rating.

At anytime of year, but especially in winter- the temperature gradient in your sleep system (you are say 80* and outside is 20*) will leave a spot INSIDE your sleep system that is below freezing. So your evaporating body moisture will likely accumulate and freeze in your outer quilt. So use the 50* quilt on the outside to preserve the most loft in your inner system.

If you are piling on clothes- these should be on the outside for the same reason. It is easier to wear your puffy around camp, or dry it in the sun the next day or by the fire to work out that frosty moisture than it is to try to air out your outer quilt. Even if they don't do much for your total warmth, putting the clothes out may preserve your outer quilts rating longer.

As mentioned- it is easy to bounce gear on the AT. You'll figure it out;)

[Puddlefish]

With an April start I used a 40 degree quilt layered over a 32 degree mummy bag, and I thought that was perfect. When I sent the bag home for the warmer weather, I had to get used to the occasional gust of wind sneaking under the quilt.

So, basically what I'm saying is that it depends on your tent as well. I wouldn't have enjoyed two quilts without my head and neck being covered, and the possibility of drafts, even in mid April. Once I sent the bag home, I occasionally would wake up in the middle of the night and put on a puffy jacket.

[Dogwood]

Funny did not mention not knowing the temperature in Georgia, NC or TN over the first month, people with esp always amaze me with their skill. :)

Day I plan to start (next year) this year it was 31 -54 F. Coldest was in the GSMNP of 8 F. Temperatures below 20F are what puffy jackets, fleeces and good thermals, headgear and, merino and possum fur socks are for. Although I am not used to those temperatures I have hiked the AAWT in Aussie Alps 3 times down to -7 and snow, about 100 days in total.

Yes at the moment what I start with is what I finish with, unless I throw something away, doesn't faze me at all. It would be nice to get rid of the winter stuff but 4 or 5 lbs is nothing. We don't have towns as frequently on aussie long tracks so carrying 7 - 10 days worth of food is not uncommon, as is 6 or more liters of water in drier areas, used to bigger weights on the back.

The more I have thought about it the more I like the flexibility that two quilts will give me. Good EE quilts so not much weight and one is actually wider and longer that the other already so that works out well. Quite looking forward to a prolonged bushwalk in cold temperatures, beats a prolonged bushwalk in 90+ temperatures any day of the year.

THX for clarifying.

So, are you saying carrying an unneeded 4-5 lbs of gear, food, water is nothing? UMM??? Question: WHY carry extra wt and volume adding up to 4-5 lbs when not necessary when you can make some logistical adjustments not to?


Instead of carrying things the whole way or throwing them away, you just need to find someone in the USA to ship to/from while you are here :)


Tell you what Jjozgrunt, I'll be in Georgia come Mar-April-May-June I'd be willing to securely hold and mail you stuff if you'd like. Abi is correct. The opportunity I'm offering is worthwhile. Many hikers from abroad utilize or would jump at such an opp to have someone within the U.S. offer this! I know the AT, know thru-hikers(I'm a TCer), know UL, know how the mailing process works in the U.S. for thru-hikers, can be relied upon, and would like to support an Aussie. No reason to prove to yourself and others how masochistic you can be. PM me if interested.

[jjozgrunt]

Tell you what Jjozgrunt, I'll be in Georgia come Mar-April-May-June I'd be willing to securely hold and mail you stuff if you'd like. Abi is correct. The opportunity I'm offering is worthwhile. Many hikers from abroad utilize or would jump at such an opp to have someone within the U.S. offer this! I know the AT, know thru-hikers(I'm a TCer), know UL, know how the mailing process works in the U.S. for thru-hikers, can be relied upon, and would like to support an Aussie. No reason to prove to yourself and others how masochistic you can be. PM me if interested.

Thanks for that Dogwood and the other members that have PMéd me, I would love to have one of you hold my winter gear for me because of course it would be easier.

Did I just get Yogi-ing without having started the walk???? Love the terminology, and I will contact all those that offered closer to the date to confirm your offer.

For those that have asked 58 Male, 20 years infantry, walk all the time, bushwalking leader in a club here and I think that answered everything. Oh arrive Atlanta 10 Mar, travel to Springer afternoon of the 11th and start 12th.

Cheers
Jim

[Dogwood]

…Did I just get Yogi-ing without having started the walk????

Jim

Nah, I was just trying to get some new winter gear, expand my couch surfing network, and tell ya all the things ya doing wrong. :D

Some say the true art of yogiing is having others offer without asking for what you may want or need.

Seriously, one of the greater awarenesses backpacking/traveling has taught many a backpacker/traveler is the capability for goodness, understanding, and generosity left in the world. When it's visited upon yourself you in turn will have the opportunity to visit it upon others.

By remembering those who have shown us grace, mercy, and assistance, even at times when unaware we could use it, by paying it forward is what many in the hiking/traveling community are about. It goes beyond borders, skin color, religion, economic status, or political affiliation…..even if you're an Aussie.;)

[jjozgrunt]

Seriously, one of the greater awarenesses backpacking/traveling has taught many a backpacker/traveler is the capability for goodness, understanding, and generosity left in the world. When it's visited upon yourself you in turn will have the opportunity to visit it upon others.

By remembering those who have shown us grace, mercy, and assistance, even at times when unaware we could use it, by paying it forward is what many in the hiking/traveling community are about. It goes beyond borders, skin color, religion, economic status, or political affiliation…..even if you're an Aussie.;)

How true, and some of it by people that can't even afford it but do it anyway. In 1983 I left Rhodes and travelled by fishing boat to Kaz in southern Turkey. Two guys I meet in a kibbutz in Israel, a Canadian and Irishman went with me. We then started a 7 month adventure, mainly walking north through the central mountain regions to Ankara and the west to Istanbul. Only had a road map and most of the places we went had no roads as such. Stayed with locals, got feed by locals, directions (not the best sometimes) by locals and they were the friendliest and most welcoming of people. Had a few hairy moments along the way and looking back some could have ended badly, but a smile, handshake and the aussie and irish willingness to drink anything alcoholic always got us through. Always wished we had gps's back then as we rarely knew where we were, until we hit bigger towns. Unfortunately not something I'd recommend to people these days. The people of the small villages are probably the same but the rest?

Might take a while to get the smell out of the gear!