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carrottop
09-11-2016, 17:00
hello...We are planning a 40 mile loop in Eagle Cap Wilderness in a couple weeks.

This is higher elevation in Eastern Oregon.

Typically I use a Pocket Rocket, but think that the Whisperlite may need to be dusted off for the higher elevation and cold temps.

We are planning 4 breakfasts and 4 dinners for three people and am wondering if the 1 bottle of fuel will be enough or do I need to carry a spare bottle?

thanks for the help.

On a side note...anyone reading htis have any info on the weather out there.

I am in SC right now and it is about 90 degrees lol.

rafe
09-11-2016, 17:08
There are a couple of different bottle sizes. I used to hike with the larger 22 oz. size. But even with the smaller (16 oz.) bottle I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. Use it with a windscreen, of course...

HooKooDooKu
09-11-2016, 17:35
The higher the elevation the colder it can become before a canister stove stops working. This is because the lower air pressure means the fuel doesn't have to be as warm to vaporize. So don't plan to dump the cannister stove because of altitude (but you will still need to consider expected temperatures to determine if the white gas stove is needed).

garlic08
09-11-2016, 19:36
My wife and I used to easily make our large Whisperlite bottle last for eight days, two hot meals a day, in the CO high country, so you should be good.

A side note, unsolicited so ignore at will: With that many people and that many meals, you may want to consider a back-up plan--either a second stove or food that doesn't need to be cooked (instant potatoes, Ramen, couscous, rolled oats). Regardless of fuel efficiency, if you have any kind of stove failure a lot of people are going to be missing it.

carrottop
09-12-2016, 06:58
The higher the elevation the colder it can become before a canister stove stops working. This is because the lower air pressure means the fuel doesn't have to be as warm to vaporize. So don't plan to dump the cannister stove because of altitude (but you will still need to consider expected temperatures to determine if the white gas stove is needed).

So do you think the canister will be ok then? I am only used to Smokies camping at most 5k feet.

carrottop
09-12-2016, 07:33
I have a 16 oz bottle, and am trying to minimize weight. Dont really have a backup plan unless we take a canister and an extra canister stove. Well I guess backup would be to go old school and build a fire.

carrottop
09-12-2016, 07:38
Expected temps would be down to lower 30's to upper 20's

Just Bill
09-12-2016, 10:48
I have a 16 oz bottle, and am trying to minimize weight. Dont really have a backup plan unless we take a canister and an extra canister stove. Well I guess backup would be to go old school and build a fire.

The best way to get a solid idea is to cook a meal or two at home and then measure how much fuel you used.

If you're on the fence after that- and the trail supports it/allows it- then planning a fire or two is a good way to extend the fuel to help shave the weight of stepping up to a bigger bottle or a full spare. I prefer to stretch the fuel when the opportunity arises (good camp, decent day, safe spot) and use a fire then- saving the fuel itself for when/if you get that crappy day and want the convenience of the stove. Otherwise it always works out that you run out of fuel and the day happens to be raining and crappy :D

HooKooDooKu
09-12-2016, 11:43
So do you think the canister will be ok then? I am only used to Smokies camping at most 5k feet.
I don't know...
I only posted because your question seemed to indicate that you believed a canister stove would be less likely to work at higher altitudes.
I just wanted to correct that misconception and let you know that the coldest temperature at which a canister stove will still operate is colder for higher altitudes than it is at lower altitudes.

Beyond that, whether or not you need to ditch the canister stove is likely more a question of how well you know how to use it at colder temperatures. There's a host of tricks that I've read about that can be used to extend the lower limit that you can operate a canister stove:
1. Use body heat to keep the canister warm before you use it.
2. Insulate the canister from the cold ground.
3. Allow heat from the stove to be reflected at and warm the canister (extreme care is needed as something like surrounding a canister stove in a full wind screen could allow the canister to over heat and explode).
4. ... (just Google the subject and you'll find a host of suggestions)

From what I understand, using these tricks its possible to use a canister stove down to about 20 (and I'm sure a real pro at it could go even colder).
But me personally, I once had problems operating my canister stove in the low 40's.
Since I usually only to long weekend hikes, I opt to just carry the heavier Whisperlite stove when ever I'm camping in colder conditions rather than bother with the hassle of these "tricks".

nsherry61
09-12-2016, 18:19
Couple of thoughts:
1) Eagle Cap is beautiful. Enjoy.
2) Weather looks to be in the high 20's to 70F according the the weather report (https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2#q=eagle%20cap%20wilderness%20weather).
3) As noted above, higher elevation improves the performance of canister stoves. HooKooDooKu's comments are spot on.
4) When using canisters in cold weather, use the smaller canisters (110 g) because canisters are gas mixes and the higher vapor pressure gasses needed to burn well in cold weather burn off first, so, if you use larger canisters, you end up with 1/2 a big canister that is really hard to get enough pressure out of to work adequately.
5) With three people, it is really nice to have two stoves, both for backup and so that you can be cooking twice as fast with one stove boiling water for drinks and the other cooking dinner or whatever. Two stoves heat water in 1/2 the time that one stove can. And when cooking for three, that can be quite of bit of boiling time, depending on the details of you menu plans.

Have fun!

Kaptainkriz
09-12-2016, 18:24
Piece of copper strip on a small canister keeps it warm enough in cold weather to operate:
36190

gbolt
09-12-2016, 20:06
Piece of copper strip on a small canister keeps it warm enough in cold weather to operate:

Interesting... Can you elaborate on where to get the strip? And at what temp you use this set up? Do you still keep the canister and copper warm or just the copper or just the canister? Enquiring Minds want to know!

Kaptainkriz
09-12-2016, 20:36
There was another thread on this somewhere and I copied the idea. It is copper roof flashing cut into a strip with some tin snips. I got it at a local building supplier and had some left over from another project. Butane stays a liquid somewhere around the freezing point of water and when it evaporates, the canister cools some. I clip it on around 35F and colder. The canister just needs to be warm enough to light, which it usually is if it is in the tent with you or you hold it in your hands for a while. Some people sleep with it. The copper strip conducts heat from the flame very effectively down to the canister and helps heat the fuel during operation. It works very well and will bring a wheezy cold canister to full power in freezing weather.


Interesting... Can you elaborate on where to get the strip? And at what temp you use this set up? Do you still keep the canister and copper warm or just the copper or just the canister? Enquiring Minds want to know!

Kaptainkriz
09-12-2016, 21:11
This thread: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/115424-How-low-will-a-cannister-go!

carrottop
09-13-2016, 13:52
Thank you for all the help. Typically when we go out we use a canister. We did a Rim to Rm Grand Canyon trip last fall with a canister. It is just a bit easier than having to prime the Whisperlite, wait to make sure you don't start a forest fire...you know the drill...

So I think we will just go with the Whisperlite this trip with just a little bit of extra fuel...probably about 24 oz total should do it.

rafe
09-13-2016, 18:02
For sure, the Whisperlite is more work and more weight, but as the single stove for a group, it makes some sense. Just make sure it's in good working order, and maybe bring the repair kit -- at the very least, something to clean the jet if it gets clogged.

cmoulder
09-14-2016, 09:28
Concur with rafe on the jet cleaner, but also the "shaker jet" really is very good and almost always works as advertised. If it doesn't work the first time, try again and shake it even harder.... you're not going to hurt it!

One other item I'd make absolutely sure to have is a spare (or maybe 2 or 3) of the little O-rings that fit into the plastic pump where the fuel tube is inserted. And make absolutely sure to lube the end of the fuel tube every time before inserting it into the pump. If this o-ring is stiff from old age or cold, or if it gets scuffed, the resulting leak can a serious problem.

carrottop
10-01-2016, 09:36
So we are back from Eagle Cap...what an awesome place!!!!

Wanted to let everyone know what we used...

To boil 10 cups of water (on average) for two meals a day for five days we used just under a 20 oz bottle of fuel...the temps were in the upper 20's (we got sleeted on) to mid to upper 50's at dusk. We camped around 8000' elevation several nights and 7000' one night.

Thanks for the help!

psyculman
09-23-2017, 07:12
Piece of copper strip on a small canister keeps it warm enough in cold weather to operate:
36190
Warning about this use of copper! The thickness of the copper I used was not enough to prevent it from melting. The melted copper dripped onto the catalytic element in the center of the burner, and it does not glow where the copper coated the catalytic screen. I think it deminished the heat out put. The stove is a Primus TI. A picture does not show up this damage because the flame obscures the catalytic center element.

cmoulder
09-23-2017, 07:48
Warning about this use of copper! The thickness of the copper I used was not enough to prevent it from melting. The melted copper dripped onto the catalytic element in the center of the burner, and it does not glow where the copper coated the catalytic screen. I think it deminished the heat out put. The stove is a Primus TI. A picture does not show up this damage because the flame obscures the catalytic center element.

That's precisely why it is specified as 20mil (.020") copper strip, 1" wide. I have 20mil strips with dozens and dozens of burns with no problems.

Venchka
09-23-2017, 08:15
So we are back from Eagle Cap...what an awesome place!!!!

Wanted to let everyone know what we used...

To boil 10 cups of water (on average) for two meals a day for five days we used just under a 20 oz bottle of fuel...the temps were in the upper 20's (we got sleeted on) to mid to upper 50's at dusk. We camped around 8000' elevation several nights and 7000' one night.

Thanks for the help!

Old school works! Thanks for the report and the fuel usage for three people. I'm pondering a 3 person trip next summer (a first for me) and your information is a big help.
When in doubt, keep it simple.
Wayne


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Venchka
09-23-2017, 10:56
A good place to go for stoves and fuel needs, etc.
https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/04/how-much-white-gas-do-i-need.html?m=1
Wayne


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