View Full Version : Thoughts on Maltodextrin vs Dextrose for liquid calories on trail.
Like the title says, I have used dextrose before as a easy carb calorie boost but not for an energy source per say. I know Malto used maltodextrin on the PCT and I will assume still does for his various outings. I haven't looked at the breakdowns recently but it seems that I remember dextrose having a higher caloric number per weight. I am also aware that dextrose has a much sweeter taste and that malto takes longer to process in the body.
Any thoughts?
If you are not familiar with the search function on Whiteblaze, this subject has been discussed In great detail. Just type in "maltodextrin", or dextrose
colorado_rob
09-16-2016, 09:55
Unless there are some non-caloric fillers in either product, I don't think there can be any difference in calories per ounce; a carb is a carb is a carb for calories, 4 of them per gram.
I do know that when an energy boost is needed on the trail or on a big climb, Maltodextrin is a miracle. I can't tell you how many times a couple of shot-block cubes (made of flavored maltodextrin) gets me the last 1000 feet of a BIG climb; I'm talking here about a mountain climb, which has been my primary use of them, but I have also used it with excellent results for a boost at the end of a very long day on a regular trail.
I thought one key feature of Maltodextrin was the speed at which the carbs become available to your body, ie very quick digestion. Perhaps Dextrose is even quicker? All I know is that Maltodextrin gives me energy really fast, 15 minutes or so after eating 100 calories of the stuff (3 cubes of shot blocks) I'm good for 30-40 minutes.
Basically, I have no experience with Dextrose (that I know of), but swear by Maltodextrin for a quick energy supplement.
If you are not familiar with the search function on Whiteblaze, this subject has been discussed In great detail. Just type in "maltodextrin", or dextroseGood call, I was posting pre-coffee and didn't consider searching prior.
Unless there are some non-caloric fillers in either product, I don't think there can be any difference in calories per ounce; a carb is a carb is a carb for calories, 4 of them per gram.
I do know that when an energy boost is needed on the trail or on a big climb, Maltodextrin is a miracle. I can't tell you how many times a couple of shot-block cubes (made of flavored maltodextrin) gets me the last 1000 feet of a BIG climb; I'm talking here about a mountain climb, which has been my primary use of them, but I have also used it with excellent results for a boost at the end of a very long day on a regular trail.
I thought one key feature of Maltodextrin was the speed at which the carbs become available to your body, ie very quick digestion. Perhaps Dextrose is even quicker? All I know is that Maltodextrin gives me energy really fast, 15 minutes or so after eating 100 calories of the stuff (3 cubes of shot blocks) I'm good for 30-40 minutes.
Basically, I have no experience with Dextrose (that I know of), but swear by Maltodextrin for a quick energy supplement.Thank you sir!
nsherry61
09-16-2016, 12:05
FYI: Shotbloks list maltodextrin as their third ingredient behind tapioca syrup and cane syrup. So, unlike the gels which are primarily maltodextrin based carbs, the shotbloks have a lot more sucrose and fructose in them.
From a dextrose vs. maltodextrin vs. other carb point of view, the big advantage of the maltodextrin mixes is that, when eating maltodextrins, your body will be able to continue to process more carbs (i.e. get more energy) more effectively when your digestive system has otherwise slowed down from stress due to exercise intensity and/or high altitude. In other words, many people get sick to their stomach from sugar bloating when consuming sugars under physical stress whereas simple starches (like maltodextrin) do not cause the bloating and allow you to continue consuming and digesting food when you otherwise could not.
Also, all maltodextrins are not the same. Moltodextrin is a class of starches that can be mixed by the food engineers to be faster or slower to break down and digest. So, for instance, Gu gels are very slow and steady carbs while Hammer gels have a different mixture of maltodextrins, some of which are very vast to digest and some of which are slower. So, many people will get an energy pick-me-up with Hammer gel whereas Gu is a steadier, long slow release of carbs into your system. If you are crashing, Hammer is a better pick-me-up, but, as a long stead food where you are using the gel to maintain your energy, not recover from or avoid and imminent crash, Gu seems to be a better option.
As many things, experiment with how the different foods work for you.
Finally, if it isn't already clear, dextrose is a sugar, so it can work well as a pick-me-up, but can also cause post-consumption "crashing" and or stomach bloating depending on how your particular digestive system works under the particular circumstances and how much dextrose you consume.
Just Bill
09-16-2016, 12:51
Malto is the expert, but my understanding is similar to Nsherry's; Maltodextrin is the better "steady" choice and is helpful overall as that "medium burn" carb (versus candy or pasta/grains) is harder to place in a hikers diet. We can eat a handful of candy or raisins for a pick me up... or carb load grains at a dinner... but for ready to use carbs while moving Maltodextrin seems the ideal choice and easy to integrate over all.
Malto also echo'd the concern that there are different varieties and there are superior suppliers who provide the longer chain version a LD hiker would prefer.
He does straight maltodextrin with kool-aid for flavor. 20ish ounces per quart? (he packs in a water bottle and dumped that into a bottle of water.)
Personally- I liked to use .5-1 cup along with a serving of Gatorade per quart of water. A little basic sugar, flavor, electrolytes from the Gatorade powder... and the malto for sustained fuel. That seemed to fit me better than the straight mix- but I fully admit nowhere near the use of it as Malto. However I think it's a great tool to have in the kit and it is very helpful to have drinkable calories overall.
colorado_rob
09-16-2016, 13:37
FYI: Shotbloks list maltodextrin as their third ingredient behind tapioca syrup and cane syrup. So, unlike the gels which are primarily maltodextrin based carbs, the shotbloks have a lot more sucrose and fructose in them.
...
As many things, experiment with how the different foods work for you.
Finally, if it isn't already clear, dextrose is a sugar, so it can work well as a pick-me-up, but can also cause post-consumption "crashing" and or stomach bloating depending on how your particular digestive system works under the particular circumstances and how much dextrose you consume.Thanks for that info, I starting using shot blocks at least a half dozen years ago, I wonder if their recipe has changed? All I know for sure is that they work very well for me, per your second point. Maybe a liquid powder version is worth a shot, as sometimes those gels get really hard to eat... I was just glad to stop using those Gu shots, they worked, but always a big mess, sticky fingers, sticky pockets where I discarded the used, pack, etc.
It is unclear as to what application the OP is asking about these for... simple long distance hiking or something a bit more intense? In any case, I never notice a post-consumption crash using these products, probably because I'm burning real-time everything available. Of course, these sugar calories don't last long, but for the application I'm referring to, they don't need to, in fact, I don't want them to, I want the calories NOW when I consume Maltodextrin, etc. for sustainable "long" calories burned over an entire long day on the trail, these "fast" sugars are not a good way to go in my experience.
Just Bill
09-16-2016, 13:49
Personally- Malto got me interested in it for speed hiking.
That said...
1/4 cup of nuts/trail mix is 200 cal or so.
If I can slug down a Gatorade/Malto mix combo (say half a quart) along with it that's another 200 cal depending on how much maltodextrin is crammed in.
I'm drinking anyway... I like drinking one water, then one Gatorade roughly... so if by simply drinking I can double the calories I'm dribbling in it seems like a no-brainer to me.
It's damn hard to eat 300 calories an hour for 12-16 hours a day and not feel like you're force feeding yourself.
But pretty easy to mix up a batch in a bladder or bottle and thoughtless keep the IV drip of calories going to supplement a more comfortable eating/snacking pattern of solid foods.
Even in a regular hike- 400-600 for a breakfast, same for a dinner puts you around 1000 calories.
5 snacks a day (bar, trail mix, peanut butter, etc) at about 200 cal each brings you up to 2000 calories.
Much more than that and most of us feel pushed to eat (at least for non-multi week hikes). So having 800-1000 calories in the form of drinks (two quarts of a malto style mix per day) fills things out nicely in my opinion.
I also have been messing with coffee- adding a scoop of NIDO (I don't drink milk) is a tolerable way to get that down and turn my 10 cal. cup into a 100-200 cal cup.
I really am leaning towards a 1/3 meal, 1/3 snack, 1/3 drink mix as a nice way to travel.
Odd Man Out
09-16-2016, 13:53
Also know that dextrose is another name for glucose or corn sugar or blood sugar. It is the sugar that is in your blood that feeds cells. When you get your blood sugar measured, you are measuring glucose. As such it requires no further catabolism (i.e. breakdown) to become available, although you do need insulin for the glucose to assimilated by the cells.
So to throw a bit more info out, I was looking at using malto/dex for adding calories on 8-day section hikes on the AT and for fueling 1+ hour gym sessions. After my experience in the heat this past July, for me liquid calories were key. Solid foods held little to no appeal. At the Malto ratio of mix, I think maltodextrin is the winner since it is less sweet to the taste than dextrose. Price-wise they ended up the same. I have an electrolyte mix I am going to add with the malto and experiment from there. Should end up being 300 calories per litre.
Just Bill
09-16-2016, 15:26
Malto made his own electrolyte capsules and seemed to prefer that system for his PCT hike. If I recall correctly he liked having better control of that... so if you really want to follow his mix (malto and unsweetened Koolaid) then that (or using running products) would be the way to do it.
For a post workout 1 hr gym recovery MAYBE I can see the benefit of the occasional MODERATE use of maltodextrin. I know it's very popular among bodybuilders. For a done in a day or so activity like an Ultra PERHAPS a couple of gels with maltodextrin combined with real whole foods I can see its possible benefit too. Different with backpacking as that is a sustained activity. Attempting to sustain energy levels with maltodextrin in the realm of 8 day 10+ hr/day hiking trek can and likely will have adverse side affects like blood sugar spikes related to maltodextrin's HIGH glycemic index, possible bloating, and getting into the habit of pumping more and more maltodextrin into the body to avoid crashes or provide quick energy. In this way maltodextrin acts similar to the roller coaster rides of refined table sugar but possibly with lower highs and higher lows energy wise. Even though maltodextrin is technically a complex carb it acts somewhat like refined table sugar perhaps even worse. Pumping all this into the body also feeds the "bad" gut flora and can create or aggravate existing imbalances in gut bacteria for the "good" gut flora. Some parasites feed on sugar as well as being implicated in bowel and digestive disorders and fatigue maybe something that should be considered in the realm go backpacking.
And despite the PR campaign maltodextrin is NOT natural. It does not exist in nature. What is is yet another by product/usage for the glut of GM corn produced in the U.S. It is the result of highly processing a "unnatural" product.
What Malto is entirely doing on trail in what he consumes or who Malto medically and internally is we also don't know. Not everyone is Malto or knows Malto's full lifestyle.
Now, I'm not saying as a LD hiker or semi pro tennis player when in need of a quick energy boost I've never slammed a Gu, Stinger, or Hammer gel but I don't do it routinely. I MUCH PREFER NOT getting into such an energy deficit IN THE FIRST PLACE by constantly feeding using the grazing method of eating the most minimally processed NUTRITIONALLY DENSE slower burning foods especially if I anticipate a hot weather very competitive long 5 set tennis match or in the realm of multi day/LD backpacking. And, what I mean by nutritionally dense goes WELL BEYOND looking at what I put into my body and mind narrowly just in terms of calories as food and drink/optimal nutrition is SO MUCH MORE BROADLY defined than calories alone.
There are better ways IMHO getting the energy and cognitive enhancement one desires both on and off trail than simply coffee too which again easily becomes an energy crutch. So much more to coffee than just caffeine as well.
Now, I'm not saying as a LD hiker or semi pro tennis player when in need of a quick energy boost I've never slammed a Gu, Stinger, or Hammer gel but I don't do it routinely. I MUCH PREFER NOT getting into such an energy deficit IN THE FIRST PLACE by constantly feeding using the grazing method of eating the most minimally processed NUTRITIONALLY DENSE slower burning foods especially if I anticipate a hot weather very competitive long 5 set tennis match or in the realm of multi day/LD backpacking. And, what I mean by nutritionally dense goes WELL BEYOND looking at what I put into my body and mind narrowly just in terms of calories as food and drink/optimal nutrition is SO MUCH MORE BROADLY defined than calories alone.I fully understand where you are coming from, my issue was that eating solid food was difficult on my trip. I don't like to eat while moving so I would hold off until stops and eat a bit of dried pineapple. If needed I can go into specific breakdown of the breakfast and dinner shakes that make up the majority of my nutrient intake while out in the field. I add in a bit of olive oil on top of these at night. But the sum of all these things leaves me a bit shy of where I would like to be calorie-wise. I run about 3500 kcal during a normal day not on the trail and maintain between 190-193 lbs. When we were out, I was only averaging 2240 kcal. So I'm looking to boost that by drinking the malto mixed with an electrolyte product that I have been using since we returned.
I have used far more Malto than Dextrose or other sugars. I tend to go that direction because Malto is less sweet than other alternatives and can be used in higher concentrations without being syrupy. But I have also used other fuel very successfully as well. lately I ran out of Malto and haven't ordered another 50 lb bag. So I have been using gatoraid and have done several 50+ mile days fueling almost exclusively on gatoraid. On an upcoming 16 day hike I will consume about 2000 calories a day worth of gatoraid and then I will move back to Malto.
FOR HIKING I don't think it make a difference which fuel near as much as it does how you consume it. Meter the proper amount in with the proper water & electrolytes and all is well. Don't and it can result in a very upset stomach like my failed June 8 state challenge hike. Here is a good article: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/The_Science_of_Energy_Gels
My 8 state challenge failure was do to too much fuel and not enough water, improper osmolality.
I fully understand where you are coming from, my issue was that eating solid food was difficult on my trip. I don't like to eat while moving so I would hold off until stops and eat a bit of dried pineapple. If needed I can go into specific breakdown of the breakfast and dinner shakes that make up the majority of my nutrient intake while out in the field. I add in a bit of olive oil on top of these at night. But the sum of all these things leaves me a bit shy of where I would like to be calorie-wise. I run about 3500 kcal during a normal day not on the trail and maintain between 190-193 lbs. When we were out, I was only averaging 2240 kcal. So I'm looking to boost that by drinking the malto mixed with an electrolyte product that I have been using since we returned.
Umm, did you consider you might boost you total daily caloric intake by eating a greater percentage of "good" fats in your daily caloric intake? It could be accomplished, at least in part, by ditching some of the malto wt providing 4 cals/gm with some good fats which you've already started to do with the EVOO which is 9 cals/gm. You effectively more than double your calories which each gram of good fat that replaces a gm of protein or carbs. IF you can get your body into a metabolic state of ketosis on trail fat becomes your main source of energy.
I carried roasted sea salt almonds last trip but they were destroyed by mice after we lost our outsak... I may end up going that route again and doubling up on the olive oil. Once the almonds were gone we had zero issues with properly hung food so I may just get the smallest UL outsak and put the almonds in it since that seems to be the only thing I carry that mice/squirrels/chipmunks want.
Definitely all good things to consider. About to order some malto and play with ratios to see how it goes.
I carried roasted sea salt almonds last trip but they were destroyed by mice after we lost our outsak... I may end up going that route again and doubling up on the olive oil. Once the almonds were gone we had zero issues with properly hung food so I may just get the smallest UL outsak and put the almonds in it since that seems to be the only thing I carry that mice/squirrels/chipmunks want.
Definitely all good things to consider. About to order some malto and play with ratios to see how it goes.
Carrying fats on a short duration (less than two weeks) is counter productive in most cases. For the vast majority of us we have plenty of fat to fuel our bodies so there is little need to carry more. carbs are needed in order to stoke the fire that will allow fat to be burned. For short duration hikes you can carry less calories but more carbs. This would be a lower calorie per ounce density but a lighter and more effective overall food carry. For longer duration hikes you would eventually run out of fat for fuel so adding fat into the diet will push out the depletion point. You will see very good articles written about carb to fat ratios for long distance hiking. It does not apply to short duration.
Ok gotcha. And, if one doesn't quickly get into a state of ketosis or doesn't have the body fat reserves to burn? What could the possible consequences be on even a short duration hike say 7-10 days totally eliminating fat consumption in the trail diet that may not be evident until after the hike if this is the case?
Malto, on lengthier duration hikes at what state do you start adding fat back in and how if existing on a liquid diet as your sole or main source of nutrition?
Personally- Malto got me interested in it for speed hiking.
That said...
1/4 cup of nuts/trail mix is 200 cal or so.
If I can slug down a Gatorade/Malto mix combo (say half a quart) along with it that's another 200 cal depending on how much maltodextrin is crammed in.
I'm drinking anyway... I like drinking one water, then one Gatorade roughly... so if by simply drinking I can double the calories I'm dribbling in it seems like a no-brainer to me.
It's damn hard to eat 300 calories an hour for 12-16 hours a day and not feel like you're force feeding yourself.
But pretty easy to mix up a batch in a bladder or bottle and thoughtless keep the IV drip of calories going to supplement a more comfortable eating/snacking pattern of solid foods.
Even in a regular hike- 400-600 for a breakfast, same for a dinner puts you around 1000 calories.
5 snacks a day (bar, trail mix, peanut butter, etc) at about 200 cal each brings you up to 2000 calories.
Much more than that and most of us feel pushed to eat (at least for non-multi week hikes). So having 800-1000 calories in the form of drinks (two quarts of a malto style mix per day) fills things out nicely in my opinion.
I also have been messing with coffee- adding a scoop of NIDO (I don't drink milk) is a tolerable way to get that down and turn my 10 cal. cup into a 100-200 cal cup.
I really am leaning towards a 1/3 meal, 1/3 snack, 1/3 drink mix as a nice way to travel.
So, at least 1/2 your day's calories are in the form of solid food, supplementing your diet, supplementing significantly as far as cals, with liquid drinks rather than attempting to go to a an entire or virtually entire liquid cal diet?
Carrying fats on a short duration (less than two weeks) is counter productive in most cases. For the vast majority of us we have plenty of fat to fuel our bodies so there is little need to carry more. carbs are needed in order to stoke the fire that will allow fat to be burned. For short duration hikes you can carry less calories but more carbs. This would be a lower calorie per ounce density but a lighter and more effective overall food carry. For longer duration hikes you would eventually run out of fat for fuel so adding fat into the diet will push out the depletion point. You will see very good articles written about carb to fat ratios for long distance hiking. It does not apply to short duration.
For one who is at an ideal wt and body fat content(yes, they exist!) that doesn't want to lose wt or need to lose body fat - such as some bodybuilders, those involved in staying fit, or many other athletes - COULD just as an effective overall food carry be achieved in terms of adequate daily calories considering the greater overall sustained energy expenditure of backpacking for multiple days, GREATER wider nutrition BEYOND just calories, certainly that can be appreciated in the context of backpacking, and lower food wt hauled be achieved by simply increasing the "good" fat % consumed daily in total daily calorie consumption? COULD a scenario that DOES NOT involve body wt yo-yoing be helpful in the long term such as post hike? Isn't body wt and body fat yo-yoing one of the eating disorder problems with those who routinely have issues with their diet and health?
Since we are getting specific(which is awesome for my OCD!) This is what I am looking at if I bump fat but it puts me at 7.06lbs for a 3 day supply. Heavier than I would like but it is what it is.
Fuel
Calorieskcal
Fatg
Carbsg
Proteing
Fiberg
Sugarg
Isagenix - Isafruits, 1 Scoop (8.52g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
25
0
5
0
1
1
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227801?date=2017-07-08)
Muscle Milk - 100 % Whey Protien, 4 Scoop (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
520
6
12
108
0
0
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227803?date=2017-07-08)
Isagenix - Isagreens, 1 scoop (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
30
1
5
1
3
1
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227804?date=2017-07-08)
Quaker Oats - Old Fashioned Oatmeal, 2 cup dry (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
600
12
108
20
16
4
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227805?date=2017-07-08)
Isagenix - Ionix Supreme, 7.5 g (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
25
0
6
0
0
5
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227807?date=2017-07-08)
Great Value - Sweetened Dried Pineapple 170g, 1 container (170.00 g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
595
0
149
0
4
132
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227809?date=2017-07-08)
Blue Diamond - Natural Oven Roasted Almonds with Sea Salt, 2 oz. (28 g/about 24 nuts) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
340
30
10
12
6
2
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704227813?date=2017-07-08)
Marconi - Extra Virgin Olive Oil, 3.5 fluid ounce (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
840
98
0
0
0
0
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704228681?date=2017-07-08)
Isagenix - Replenish - Lemon Lime, 4 scoops (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
70
0
18
0
0
16
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704229336?date=2017-07-08)
Supplements - Carbo Gain (Now Sports), 268 g (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
1,000
0
252
0
0
8
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704229937?date=2017-07-08)
Add Food (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/add_to_diary?date=2017-07-08&meal=0) Quick Tools (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#quick_tools_0)
4,045
147
565
141
30
169
Totals
4,045
147
565
141
30
169
Ok gotcha. And, if one doesn't quickly get into a state of ketosis or doesn't have the body fat reserves to burn? What could the possible consequences be on even a short duration hike say 7-10 days totally eliminating fat consumption in the trail diet that may not be evident until after the hike if this is the case?
Malto, on lengthier duration hikes at what state do you start adding fat back in and how if existing on a liquid diet as your sole or main source of nutrition?
I have an 18 day hike starting in a week. My short term hiking fueling targets are 100 calories per mile. On my thru hike I did 200 calories per mile with the extra calories primarily being high fat. For the upcoming hike I will have 150 calories per mile with a daily distance of about 30 miles/day (or off-trail equivalent) I estimate that I will lose about 8 pounds of fat on that trip which would put me just below my ideal weight. I added back fat because I have no desire to drop 16 pounds by staying on the short duration fueling schedule. Given everyone has different levels of fat stores and daily calorie burn they will have to learn their needs and adjust accordingly.
For one who is at an ideal wt and body fat content(yes, they exist!) that doesn't want to lose wt or need to lose body fat - such as some bodybuilders, those involved in staying fit, or many other athletes - COULD just as an effective overall food carry be achieved in terms of adequate daily calories considering the greater overall sustained energy expenditure of backpacking for multiple days, GREATER wider nutrition BEYOND just calories, certainly that can be appreciated in the context of backpacking, and lower food wt hauled be achieved by simply increasing the "good" fat % consumed daily in total daily calorie consumption? COULD a scenario that DOES NOT involve body wt yo-yoing be helpful in the long term such as post hike? Isn't body wt and body fat yo-yoing one of the eating disorder problems with those who routinely have issues with their diet and health?
If someone is at ideal body weight then yes I agree completely with comments above. BUT, ideal body fat should still have sufficient fat to fuel a short term hike. Ideal is not zero fat, you should always have fat stores so depending on the trip length most should still be able to employ the calorie deficit to some degree.
as far as nutrition, that is an entirely different critter. The biggest watch out from using any fueling strategy such as Malto is that there is zero nutritional value in the calories. Nutrition has to occur from the remaining thousands of calories that are consumed. I have been slowly evolving my food carry to incorporate BOTH efficient fueling as well as proper nutrition. I believe both are important.
colorado_rob
09-17-2016, 12:01
Good discussion. One point I'd like to make, in the "too much information" category...
I definitely have regularity/bowel issues when I eat too many soft sugars, like Maltodextrin and the like. For an 8 day hike, no biggie. Even for a 3-week climbing expedition (which is when I eat the most of these man made chemical compositions), no huge deal.
But on the thru hike, or large section of multi-months or so, this can get old an highly annoying and have other ramifications (chaffing, constipation, not enough TP, etc). We're all, of course, different, but if your new to these kind of supplements, don't be surprised if "things" change a bit. Basically, furthering the "TMI" thing, I get soft and highly irregular.
I have an 18 day hike starting in a week. My short term hiking fueling targets are 100 calories per mile. On my thru hike I did 200 calories per mile with the extra calories primarily being high fat. For the upcoming hike I will have 150 calories per mile with a daily distance of about 30 miles/day (or off-trail equivalent) I estimate that I will lose about 8 pounds of fat on that trip which would put me just below my ideal weight. I added back fat because I have no desire to drop 16 pounds by staying on the short duration fueling schedule. Given everyone has different levels of fat stores and daily calorie burn they will have to learn their needs and adjust accordingly.
Thx. What makes you think the 8 lbs you'll be losing will be all fat? Is that wishful thinking while you're looking down at the Xbox and fried chicken? :p
"Given everyone has different levels of fat stores and daily calorie burn they will have to learn their needs and adjust accordingly." Best info yet. Add to that a possible host of other factors and specifics that aren't always communicated and makes it even more important to "know thyself."
Since we are getting specific(which is awesome for my OCD!) This is what I am looking at if I bump fat but it puts me at 7.06lbs for a 3 day supply. Heavier than I would like but it is what it is.
Fuel
Calorieskcal
Fatg
Carbsg
Proteing
Fiberg
Sugarg
Isagenix - Isafruits, 1 Scoop (8.52g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
25
0
5
0
1
1
Muscle Milk - 100 % Whey Protien, 4 Scoop (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
520
6
12
108
0
0
Isagenix - Isagreens, 1 scoop (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
30
1
5
1
3
1
Quaker Oats - Old Fashioned Oatmeal, 2 cup dry (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
600
12
108
20
16
4
Isagenix - Ionix Supreme, 7.5 g (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
25
0
6
0
0
5
Great Value - Sweetened Dried Pineapple 170g, 1 container (170.00 g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
595
0
149
0
4
132
Blue Diamond - Natural Oven Roasted Almonds with Sea Salt, 2 oz. (28 g/about 24 nuts) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
340
30
10
12
6
2
Marconi - Extra Virgin Olive Oil, 3.5 fluid ounce (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
840
98
0
0
0
0
Isagenix - Replenish - Lemon Lime, 4 scoops (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
70
0
18
0
0
16
Supplements - Carbo Gain (Now Sports), 268 g (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#)
1,000
0
252
0
0
8
Add Food (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/add_to_diary?date=2017-07-08&meal=0) Quick Tools (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary?date=2017-07-08#quick_tools_0)
4,045
147
565
141
30
169
Totals
4,045
147
565
141
30
169
please consider whether you will actually want to eat what you have listed. I made a major mistake years ago when hiking the JMT. I had a menu that looked good on a spereadsheet but not so good on trail at altitude under heavy exertion. My very first criteria before anything else is to take food that you KNOW you can eat. Otherwise it will likely end up being dead weight sitting in your food bag the entire trip.
Thx. What makes you think the 8 lbs you'll be losing will be all fat? Is that wishful thinking while you're looking down at the Xbox and fried chicken? :p
"Given everyone has different levels of fat stores and daily calorie burn they will have to learn their needs and adjust accordingly." Best info yet. Add to that a possible host of other factors and specifics that aren't always communicated and makes it even more important to "know thyself."
no, wishful thinking will be that I gain 8 pounds of muscle mass, but I know better. That will have to come post trip.
please consider whether you will actually want to eat what you have listed. I made a major mistake years ago when hiking the JMT. I had a menu that looked good on a spereadsheet but not so good on trail at altitude under heavy exertion. My very first criteria before anything else is to take food that you KNOW you can eat. Otherwise it will likely end up being dead weight sitting in your food bag the entire trip.I learned that in July. I had peanut butter, tortillas, pepperoni, and candy bars on top of the shakes and pineapple, I quickly learned in that heat that none of those things appealed to me. So the sheet I linked above is based off what I learned last go. I eat all of the listed daily minus the olive oil, pineapple, almonds and the malto. A regular day looks like:
Fuel
Calorieskcal
Fatg
Carbsg
Proteing
Fiberg
Sugarg
Quaker Oats - Old Fashioned Oatmeal, 2 cup dry (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
600
12
108
20
16
4
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349280)
Isagenix - Isagreens, 1 scoop (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
30
1
5
1
3
1
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349284)
Muscle Milk - 100 % Whey Protien, 4 Scoop (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
520
6
12
108
0
0
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349286)
Isagenix - Isafruits, 1 Scoop (8.52g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
25
0
5
0
1
1
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349289)
Isagenix - Ionix Supreme - Liquid, 1 fl. oz. (30ml) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
20
0
5
0
0
4
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349290)
Jack Daniel's Barbecue Sauce - Hickory Brown Sugar, 4 tbsp (34g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
100
0
24
0
0
20
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349293)
Great Value - 75/25 100% Beef Burger, 4 burger (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
1,320
112
0
72
0
0
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349295)
Cobblestone Bread Co. - Corn Dusted Kaiser Rolls, 2 roll (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
460
7
88
16
4
8
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349298)
Garden Life - Romaine, 2.0 leaves (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
5
0
1
0
1
0
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349303)
Isagenix - Cleanse for Life - Natural Rich Berry Liquid, 1 fl. oz. (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
10
0
3
0
0
2
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349541)
Kraft Singles American Cheese Slices - Cheese American Singles, 6 Slice (19g) (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
360
24
12
18
0
6
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349685)
Isagenix - Replenish - Lemon Lime, 3 scoops (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
53
0
14
0
0
12
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704349847)
Onions, sweet, raw, 1 NLEA serving (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#)
47
0
11
1
1
7
(http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/remove/5704350363)
Add Food (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/add_to_diary?meal=0) Quick Tools (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary#quick_tools_0)
3,550
162
288
236
26
65
Totals
3,550
162
288
236
26
65
…as far as nutrition, that is an entirely different critter. The biggest watch out from using any fueling strategy such as Malto is that there is zero nutritional value in the calories. Nutrition has to occur from the remaining thousands of calories that are consumed. I have been slowly evolving my food carry to incorporate BOTH efficient fueling as well as proper nutrition. I believe both are important.
This is where many go off the rails. The malto does provide some nutrition and certainly in terms of calories. BUT, energy levels and nutrition aren't determined by caloric intake alone as MANY in the hiking community mistakenly assume. MANY MANY obtain adequate calories yet are fatigued on trail as result of consuming massive amounts of low quality nutritionally denatured food like products not understanding energy levels are a factor of a wider spectrum of nutrients and lifestyle choices. Professional athletes, Olympians, and many non professional athletes understand nutrition and other lifestyle choices affect performance and well being so we don't all need to be professional athletes to consider the ramifications of nutritionally dismal trail diets.
What furthers this type of nutritional reductionism is it is the dominating nutritional approach used to study nutrition. "The reductionist approach has traditionally been and continues today as the dominant approach in nutrition research. This means that parts of diet rather than the whole, or single food components rather than food habits, are studied. Even though much progress has been made with this approach, the relationship between diet and health is not yet fully understood. With the recognition about the whole being more than the sum of its parts, the limitations on the applicability of the reductionist approach, and the growing knowledge about parts of diet, another epistemological approach, such as holism, and new research strategies, such as transdisciplinarity, are needed to reveal more about the relationship between diet and health." - http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/514S.full
When we start down the path of applying reductionist nutritional theory- isolating compounds or components or calories, protein, carbs, etc - out of the whole food matrix we miss whole foods can be greater nutritionally than the sum of the parts. It also leads to MASSIVE marketing propaganda. We're also likely to continue that reductionist approach as we attempt to make up for lost nutrition hence, "Nutrition has to occur from the remaining thousands of calories that are consumed. I have been slowly evolving my food carry to incorporate BOTH efficient fueling as well as proper nutrition." Proper fueling and proper nutrition are one and the same.
"Nutrition for tiredness revolves around energy boosting foods. By this, we do not mean the quick releasing energy bars and drinks athletes use during competitions - although these have their place. Instead, we are talking about foods that form part of a balanced diet and provide optimum nutritional value to support bodily functions, improve emotional and physical health and promote overall well-being." - http://www.nutritionist-resource.org.uk/articles/tiredness.html
Even though Scott Jurek is a Vegan he stated and it applies to everyone: Scott Jurek’s Tips for Vegans and Omnivores
1. Focus on quantity of calories no matter what type of diet, and then work on improving the quality of the calories.
Unfortunately, MANY in the hiking community address the first part of that while ignoring the second part.
True the focus is quantity at minimal weight. Hence the 500 calorie honey bun and his friends.
I'm disappointed with the poor/incorrect information here. 1970's nutritional dogma. Never properly established by research.
A carb is not a carb is not a carb... There's a huge range in glycemic load. Read Good Calories Bad Calories.
You can't calculate your weight loss/gain based on caloric intake/output. A pound of fat does not equal 3500 calories. You are not making deposits and withdrawls from a bank. Your hormones are determining everything that happens. When a young girl suddenly grows a few pounds of breasts and hip fat, it's not because she is pounding donuts. Same thing if you must inject insulin to control T2D, you will gain fat regardless of your eating.
The caloric theory has big problems. You should know this because it's impossible for hikers to eat as many calories as they are burning. The most successful become fat adapted. There's no need for all this twaddle about carbs, which often are glorified sugar which will hurt your health and rot your teeth. You maybe can do it for a while in your youth or if you are the small minority that is insulin sensitive, but don't try it in your 50's or later... we all become insulin resistant as we age. It's a good idea to watch out for this dietary error before it's too late for your pancreas.
If you are not familiar with the search function on Whiteblaze, this subject has been discussed In great detail. Just type in "maltodextrin", or dextroseThe search function on this website is nearly totally ineffective. You're much better off typing your search into google and adding the word "Whiteblaze" to it...this will give you good search results for the forum. But honestly I get really tired of the peanut gallery here telling people to use the search feature (which generally doesn't work). It doesn't add anything of value to the conversation and just about every topic here has been discussed over and over and over again.
The search function on this website is nearly totally ineffective. You're much better off typing your search into google and adding the word "Whiteblaze" to it...this will give you good search results for the forum. But honestly I get really tired of the peanut gallery here telling people to use the search feature (which generally doesn't work). It doesn't add anything of value to the conversation and just about every topic here has been discussed over and over and over again.
Your point is noted. Thank you.
The search function on this website is nearly totally ineffective. You're much better off typing your search into google and adding the word "Whiteblaze" to it...this will give you good search results for the forum. But honestly I get really tired of the peanut gallery here telling people to use the search feature (which generally doesn't work). It doesn't add anything of value to the conversation and just about every topic here has been discussed over and over and over again.
Even better, google "site:whiteblaze.net maltodextrin" Of course, that is if you want to search for "maltodextrin" on whiteblaze.net. :)
Farr Away
10-04-2016, 16:07
The search function on this website is nearly totally ineffective. You're much better off typing your search into google and adding the word "Whiteblaze" to it...this will give you good search results for the forum. But honestly I get really tired of the peanut gallery here telling people to use the search feature (which generally doesn't work). It doesn't add anything of value to the conversation and just about every topic here has been discussed over and over and over again.
I guess you missed a notification.
You can set Google search as your default search option on Whiteblaze.
At the top of the screen between My Profile and Log Out, click Settings.
On the left hand side of the screen that comes up, under My Account, click General Settings.
Scroll to the bottom under Miscellaneous Settings, and choose Google Search for Search Type.
Click Save Changes (button at the bottom of the screen).
-FA
I guess you missed a notification.
You can set Google search as your default search option on Whiteblaze.
At the top of the screen between My Profile and Log Out, click Settings.
On the left hand side of the screen that comes up, under My Account, click General Settings.
Scroll to the bottom under Miscellaneous Settings, and choose Google Search for Search Type.
Click Save Changes (button at the bottom of the screen).
-FA
Thanks! Learn something new every day, or at least aspire to do so. :)