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SoFlHiker
01-11-2006, 15:00
Article published Jan 11, 2006
Police: Suspect out to kill 'preppy kids'

A 19-year-old Largo man charged with killing two Gainesville college students came to Ocala National Forest with an assault rifle and a desire to kill at random, according to police.

Leo Lancing Boatman was charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the killings of John Parker and Amber Peck, both 26-year-old Santa Fe Community College students. Boatman was expected to be taken to the Marion County Jail early today and to be held on a suicide watch.

Detectives believe Boatman stole his uncle's AK-47 rifle, took a bus to Ocala from Clearwater, bought camping equipment at Wal-Mart and took a cab to the forest. They believe he encountered Parker and Peck the next day as they were leaving from an overnight camping trip, allegedly firing "multiple shots" to kill them.

"It was random," said Marion County Sheriff's Capt. Chris Blair. "I really believe they did not know it was coming, they had no time to defend themselves."

Boatman allegedly told a girlfriend that he didn't want to kill someone with nothing to lose and shot the first "preppy kids" he came across. Marion County Sheriff Ed Dean called Boatman "a would-be serial killer, that had he not been stopped now, would have continued killing."

Police say they broke the case with the help of a 20-year-old man who reportedly gave Boatman a ride as he left the forest after the killings. Joey Tierney, a Georgia resident visiting his mother in Lake County, said he picked up Boatman on Jan. 4 about 6 p.m.

"He just looked like a nice guy," Tierney said. "I felt sorry for him."

Boatman allegedly told him he was carrying a rifle, before he was dropped off at a Silver Springs hotel. Tierney said he "got cold chills" when he heard on the television Saturday that two students were killed on the same area he picked up the hitchhiker.

Family members of Parker and Peck expressed gratitude that Tierney came forward.

"Without him, who knows what would have happened," said David Peck, Amber's father. "We're just so glad that this could be put to rest."

With Tierney's help, detectives say they pieced together a series of events leading Boatman from Largo to Ocala and back again.

They allege Boatman stole his uncle's assault rifle on New Year's Eve, leaving Clearwater on a Greyhound bus two days later. He arrived in Ocala early Jan. 3, and video footage shows him buying $391 worth of camping equipment at a Wal-Mart there at 2 a.m. that morning. A cab company told police one of its drivers brought Boatman to Juniper Springs Recreation Area.

Later that same day, Parker and Peck left Gainesville for a planned overnight camping trip in a remote part of Juniper Springs. Witnesses heard gunshots at noon the next day, according to police.

About six hours later, Tierney said he picked up Boatman on a road near the site of the killings. Tierney said Boatman was carrying a large bag, telling him he had a rifle and knife. Boatman said he left Southwest Florida looking to escape city life and live in the woods, according to Tierney.

He dropped Boatman at a Holiday Inn in Silver Springs, but police say the rates were too expensive and Boatman instead went to the nearby Silver River Inn. Records show he stayed there and left the next morning, according to police.

Peck's roommate reported her missing when she hadn't returned three days after she was expected, leading Peck's family members to use satellite tracking to locate her car near a forest road Friday night.

The family embarked Saturday morning through rough terrain to reach their campsite, finding the bodies face down near Hidden Pond, off the Florida Trail. The bodies were airlifted that night for an autopsy, and investigators combed the scene for evidence.

Sheriff's deputies found at least five shell casings at the scene and believe each victim was shot at close range multiple times, said Marion County Sheriff's Capt. Tommy Bibb. Parker's wallet was found rifled through, he said, but all their equipment was packed and it appeared they were leaving the forest when they were killed.

After Tierney called police Saturday night, detectives were able to track Boatman's movements to the hotels. They learned his identity from a copy of his driver licence at the hotel where he stayed, then found he had taken a Greyhound back to Clearwater.

On Monday, detectives interviewed Boatman at his Largo home. When asked about the rifle, he allegedly told them it was a pellet gun and showed them one in his shed. But by this time, Bibb said police had statements from Boatman's friends and family that he had stolen the assault rifle.

According to a police report, Boatman's girlfriend told police he had said he "went to the woods and killed someone." Boatman told her, "I wouldn't kill a bum because they would have nothing to lose" and "I went out there and came across two preppy kids and killed them," according to the report.

Parker and Peck were members of Students for Environmental Harmony, a SFCC environmental group. He was a former U.S. Marine who planned on studying forestry; she had planned to study biology at a school in Australia.

Michelle Blackburn, a close friend of Parker's, was shocked by the apparent randomness of the killing.

"This is tragic. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard," she said. "Go figure - it's just some idiot with a gun. I hope he gets the death penalty.

"It makes me mad that it was such a senseless death, but it brings me a lot of peace and a lot of closure to know he's in custody," she said.

Peck's friend Sarah Austin said she felt better knowing Boatman was in custody, "but I don't see any reason why he would just feel like shooting somebody," she said.

"These people's lives and the lives around them will not be the same just because he thought somebody's life wasn't valuable," Austin said, her voice breaking with emotion.

At SFCC, "to just get closure on this horrible case is a good thing," said college President Jackson Sasser. "There's been a sense of loss at Santa Fe, especially for those that knew these promising students so well."

Parker's sister, Bethany, said the family is glad they can move beyond the mystery and begin grieving.

"Our family is grateful that this killer has been caught and now we can focus on remembering my brother," she said.

Sun staff writer Tiffany Pakkala contributed to this report.

Skidsteer
01-11-2006, 19:14
.....Damn.

CaptChaos
01-11-2006, 20:46
Everyone:

1st:

My heart goes out to the family of both people killed.

2nd:

Before everyone gets started: "Guns don't kill people, People kill people".

In 1974 in Darke County, Ohio I was cross a field with my best friend when someone opened up on us by a fallen tree with a .306. We jumped behind the fallen tree and the shooter keep firing rounds in front, to the side and behind our location. My best friends father was painting the house and saw what was going on and called the police and then got his service pistol.

I had enough, when he stopped to reload I opened up with my .45 Cal ACP and emptyed the clip on the hillside where I suspected the shooter to be. The shooting stopped.

The police later found the spot where the shooter had been due to the shell casings. Very close to his location were marks where my bullets had gotten very close to where he was at. The shooter was never found but the golf course across the street, this was out in the county, had seen him there most of the morning drinking like a fish.

The police suspected that he had heard us plinking cans down by the river bank and decided to have some fun at our expense. But my return fire ended his fun for the day. I hope that he is still running for what he did to us.

Case in point: He did not know us, we did nothing to him and we were lucky that he did not kill one or both of us. It can happen anywhere to anyone. I am truth to that.

John

CaptChaos
01-11-2006, 20:49
Just in passing for those of you who wonder how I felt about this after it was over.

1) I was glad that I had not killed him.

2) I puked

3) I have never fired a weapon since then and hope that I never have to.

neo
01-11-2006, 23:32
i am so sad to hear this,i am glad they caught their killer,when a hiker gets hurt or killed on the trail,i feel as though i have been atacked also,because
i feel like the hiking cummunity as a whole is like family to me:cool: neo

Tha Wookie
01-12-2006, 03:23
That is a shocking and saddening story. I can only pray for those victims, their families, and for the killer's sick soul, that it may be rid of those demons.

We must remember that as sad as this is, things like this happen daily in cities and towns, to city people and others in rural areas very commonly. This is not a trail-specific problem. If anything, the trails are far more safe than just driving leisurely down any given highway.

Nean
01-12-2006, 03:42
People go camping everyday, and sooner or later some sick **** will wonder in from the road. Same happens w/ hikers. The victims and public are fortunate that this s* was caught so easily. It's a sad thing about being human, some lose it and others suffer.

RLC_FLA
01-12-2006, 09:02
Latest from the St Pete Times on this tragedy.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/01/12/State/From_troubled_boy_to_.shtml

Tha Wookie
01-12-2006, 09:38
You can get used to these kind of stories since the Republican regime has brought back the legalized assault rifle.

Sad but true. the NRA has some money to make.

Lone Wolf
01-12-2006, 09:40
A ***ing shotgun would have achieved the same result you gun grabber.:rolleyes:

Tha Wookie
01-12-2006, 09:48
A ***ing shotgun would have achieved the same result you gun grabber.:rolleyes:



I'm not the gun grabber, wolf. Remember, it was a 19 year-old boy who grabbed the weapon designed to kill and enlivened its role.

Thanks to your vote, it was made possible!

lobster
01-12-2006, 14:05
Wookie, go crawl back under your liberal rock!

Fiddler
01-12-2006, 14:28
You can get used to these kind of stories since the Republican regime has brought back the legalized assault rifle.

The legalized assault rifle was not brought back by the republican regime. Correct me if I am wrong. Weren't the bans only temporary? Didn't they expire a short while ago? Weren't any items covered by the bans that were owned before the bans grandfathered in so ownership was still legal? Were not sales of existing weapons still legal since the bans covered mostly the importing and manufacturing of banned items? I was a licensed firearms dealer many years (quit 3 years ago, retired and enjoying it) and I had to know the laws on firearms. I could still buy and sell all the banned items I cared to as long as they were manufactured or imported before the bans took effect. Evidently those who think the republican regime brought back the assault rifle didn't visit any gun shops during the time the bans were in effect.

Tha Wookie
01-12-2006, 15:41
The legalized assault rifle was not brought back by the republican regime. Correct me if I am wrong. Weren't the bans only temporary? Didn't they expire a short while ago? Weren't any items covered by the bans that were owned before the bans grandfathered in so ownership was still legal? Were not sales of existing weapons still legal since the bans covered mostly the importing and manufacturing of banned items? I was a licensed firearms dealer many years (quit 3 years ago, retired and enjoying it) and I had to know the laws on firearms. I could still buy and sell all the banned items I cared to as long as they were manufactured or imported before the bans took effect. Evidently those who think the republican regime brought back the assault rifle didn't visit any gun shops during the time the bans were in effect.

The republicans at the helm neglected to renew the ban on assault weapons.

Wouldn't you say that will make it far easier for more assault weapons like the AK-47 to be distributed in America, Fiddler?

khaynie
01-12-2006, 16:13
What the difference between an AK-47 and a 30.06 in the hands of a lunatic - politics aside? Nothing. No party could have prevented this crime. I say we call up the Boondock Saints.

MarcnNJ
01-12-2006, 16:18
How come there are no groups that represent stabbing victims trying to outlaw knives?

Max Power
01-12-2006, 16:36
Juniper Springs may have been the first place I ever camped. It was a favorite of my parents. Here in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State> this horrible story has been everywhere. One interesting thing I just found in the Orlando Sentinel is that this is one of many violent crimes that have happened in the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ocala</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">National Forest</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>.
1966 two Pinellas women (same <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">county</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Boatman</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> lives in) vanished from an outing with a youth group. They were believed to be murdered.
1990 serial killer Aileen Wournos left one of her victim’s bodies in the forest.
1994 an FSU student was killed and his sister was abducted raped twice and left tied to a tree.
1995 two hunters found a man's body that had been killed from head trauma.
1998 a hiker found the body of a headless woman. Head found 3 months later.

The seclusion and safety you feel in the forest is nearly lost. You usually go there to escape these things, but now they seem to be creeping in.

Max Power
01-12-2006, 16:40
Soory about those icons, not sure what happened. I still can't find that edit button.

Animal Man
01-12-2006, 17:17
Laws, good people don't need them, and bad people don,t obey them.

Fiddler
01-12-2006, 17:19
The republicans at the helm neglected to renew the ban on assault weapons.

Wouldn't you say that will make it far easier for more assault weapons like the AK-47 to be distributed in America, Fiddler?

As for the first part I remember there were quite a few Democrats that were kind of slack on pressing for a renewal. Maybe their constituents sent them some kind of message? Not all democrats are so-called gun grabbers. Not all republicans were against the renewal either. Sort of a weak showing from both sides the way I remember it.

As for the second part:
Do you know what an assault weapon is? According to the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide published by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (the federal firearms laws) and sent to all licensed firearms dealers (which I was) this is what an assault rifle is:

a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash supressor or threaded barrel designed to accomodate a flash supressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher.

Their words exactly.

As for easier distribution, no. There was so much left-over inventory from when the ban first took effect there never was a shortage of anything you might have wanted. And the manufacturers, foreign and domestic, simply left off the bayonet lugs and pinned the folding stocks so their former assault weapons were now ordinary rifles.

icemanat95
01-12-2006, 18:22
The statistics are pretty simple, the vast majority of violent crimes and homicides are commited with ordinary household objects like kitchen knives and blunt objects. Knife wounds are also more frequently lethal than gunshot wounds.

Handguns come next, chosen because they are concealable and relatively cheap.

"Assault Rifles" of any description, are hardly a blip on the radar because they are big, bulky and hard to hide and get rid of. Despite what Television and the movies would have you think, they are not a prefered weapon of violent criminals or deranged lunatics or even in crimes of passion, after all, in a crime of passion, you are going to pick up and use whatever is handy, not run up to wherever you've stored your rifles and pick that AK. You're going to grab that big 10" chef's knife, or the cast iron skillet, or a hammer.

That's the way it plays out in the real world, about 99 times out of 100. The thing is that no-one pays any attention to the 99 people who are killed with kitchen knives, bare fists and baseball bats, but they have a cow about the one person killed with something that looks like a military rifle (but isn't).

And of course, the liberal fanatics seize on every possible opportunity to take a whack at the republicans (just as the republican fanatics return the favor). Politics has grown stupid again, polarized to the point of ridiculousness. I don't know how many times I have heard fanatics from one side calling the politicians on the other "evil." That's the same sort of behavior that touches off civil wars, crusades and "ethnic cleansing/genocides."

Skidsteer
01-12-2006, 19:56
Do you know what an assault weapon is? According to the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide published by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (the federal firearms laws) and sent to all licensed firearms dealers (which I was) this is what an assault rifle is:

a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash supressor or threaded barrel designed to accomodate a flash supressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher.

Most of which, with perhaps the exception of the grenade launcher( anybody know where I can find one? ), can be purchased "after-market" and installed on your semi-auto of choice. But it is still a semi-auto, not an assault rifle( which, by classic definition, is fully automatic).

Sorry Wookie, but my Libertarian tendencies make me chafe at illogical, largely unenforcable laws(guns, drugs, sex, etc. ). I want the government to leave me the hell alone and I don't want them to force me to finance ( with my tax dollars ), programs I find morally repugnant. But since I live in the real world in a country of people representing many different perspectives, I'd probably settle for just being left alone. In short, that sicko would've killed somebody if he'd had to do it with a rock. Because he's sick, not because he had a gun. Cheers,

justusryans
01-12-2006, 20:10
What the difference between an AK-47 and a 30.06 in the hands of a lunatic .

25 rounds:D

khaynie
01-12-2006, 20:14
Good point. Perhaps with an AK, one doesn't have to be as good a shot...

Skidsteer
01-12-2006, 20:44
25 rounds:D
Good point. Perhaps with an AK, one doesn't have to be as good a shot...

If someone( read sicko ) were hunting you with a 30.06, they could bag you from so far away you'd never know they were there. And if they wanted to bad enough, they could find gear that would give them a virtually unlimited number of chances.:D And all perfectly legal, too. You've still got a better chance of getting cut, though. Knife wielders mean business for the most part!
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Skidsteer
01-12-2006, 20:53
And it occurs to me that if the families of the victims are reading these posts, we might be accused of missing the point, so to speak. Apologies for my part and heartfelt condolences to the victim's loved ones.

little bear
01-12-2006, 21:20
Why do people have to turn a tragedy like this into a debate over weapons and politics. Like someone else said we go into the woods to escape these things but yet they seem to find there way into the woods as well. I see this kind of violence everyday in my job and love getting away from it, and walking without the worry of this kind of thing. I will pray for the victims family. Like Neo said we all feel this as a hiking community.

Fiddler
01-12-2006, 22:25
What the difference between an AK-47 and a 30.06

An AK-47 is a particular model of rifle that is made for several different calibers. A .30-06 is a particular caliber of cartridge that will fit many different rifles.


25 rounds:D

Some AK-47's with the fixed magazine (no detachable clip) hold only 5 rounds, there is a good number of clip-fed rifles that you can get clips that look more like the old Thompson drum that will hold 100 rounds.

CaptChaos
01-12-2006, 23:55
I thought that I had set the tone of this when I pointed out that "Guns do not kill people, people kill people".

I wanted to share my life event when I was shot at with a .306. Why the discussion of gun type, bullet type, clip size, etc..

That was not my point, I am sorry for the death of these human beings. The person that did this had issues. The topic is this random act not the type of gun and configurations. That is why I answered the post to prevent this hijack of the post for something other than what it is.

This is not about gun control, politics, etc.. It is about society and the issues that we all face day to day and how we deal with it.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I am trying to be a know it all but your views on gun control, politics, number of rounds you can put in a gun, etc., is not what this thread is all about right now at this time.

gumby
01-13-2006, 00:10
I saw this on the news the evening it happened. I live just north of Tampa. I was planning on doing an overnight up there soon. Probably will but will definitely use my camo tarp.

It's sorry to hear about this type of violence, especially where the perp did it with such intent.

SteveJ
01-13-2006, 00:14
.Because he's sick, not because he had a gun. Cheers,

ya know, sometimes people do bad things because they're......bad. evil.

they knowingly choose to do something terrible, understanding the consequence of their actions and the effect these actions will have on others.

IMHO - not sick, but evil.

whatever non-pc term you want to use....

yeah, maybe sometimes legitimately 'sick' - but methinks that we shouldn't assume the 'sick' part.....

The Desperado
01-13-2006, 00:47
I still dont understand why the focus is on this whole gun nonsense!! And that's just what it is.nonsense! If it wasnt an ak47 it would have been something else.the guy was simply a whacko period. He would have used an axe if he had to. He was just out to kill and that's just what the sick b------ did!

Skidsteer
01-13-2006, 07:15
ya know, sometimes people do bad things because they're......bad. evil.

they knowingly choose to do something terrible, understanding the consequence of their actions and the effect these actions will have on others.

IMHO - not sick, but evil.

whatever non-pc term you want to use....

yeah, maybe sometimes legitimately 'sick' - but methinks that we shouldn't assume the 'sick' part.....

I meant primarily sick as in evil. Sin sick, soul sick, spirit sick, etc.

justusryans
01-13-2006, 08:48
I still dont understand why the focus is on this whole gun nonsense!! And that's just what it is.nonsense! If it wasnt an ak47 it would have been something else.the guy was simply a whacko period. He would have used an axe if he had to. He was just out to kill and that's just what the sick b------ did!

Yup, It's not about the weapon used. He just grabbed what was available. It could have been anything.:confused:

khaynie
01-13-2006, 09:54
Why do people have to turn a tragedy like this into a debate over weapons and politics. Like someone else said we go into the woods to escape these things but yet they seem to find there way into the woods as well. I see this kind of violence everyday in my job and love getting away from it, and walking without the worry of this kind of thing. I will pray for the victims family. Like Neo said we all feel this as a hiking community.

Sorry if there is confusion over politics or gun choices. I personally know the difference between an AK-47 and a 30.06, but that's not the point, nor the point I was trying to convey. The real tragedy here are the victims. My earlier comments were in a response to Wookie's idea that had the Republicans not been in power this "sicko", the shooter, wouldn't have had an oppurtunity to get his hands on an assault rifle and this crime could have been prevented. My internal BS flag went up so I felt my first response was necessary albeit inappropriate or appropriate. I should have realized that asking "what's the difference" between anything on this site brings out an array of experts. I guess this thread isn't one for open ended questions. I'll try to do better.

Tha Wookie
01-13-2006, 18:04
Sorry if there is confusion over politics or gun choices. I personally know the difference between an AK-47 and a 30.06, but that's not the point, nor the point I was trying to convey. The real tragedy here are the victims. My earlier comments were in a response to Wookie's idea that had the Republicans not been in power this "sicko", the shooter, wouldn't have had an oppurtunity to get his hands on an assault rifle and this crime could have been prevented. My internal BS flag went up so I felt my first response was necessary albeit inappropriate or appropriate. I should have realized that asking "what's the difference" between anything on this site brings out an array of experts. I guess this thread isn't one for open ended questions. I'll try to do better.

I never said he wasn't going to do it with any other weapon, but an AK-47 made it a whole lot easier.

There's a reason why they are prefered human-killing weapons.

Maybe he could have used a rock. But he didn't.

I agree that the weapon is not the problem, as stated above. This kid obviously was going to do something terrible with whatever weapon, even if his hands.

But the case clearly highlights why some guns should not be legal without stringent regulations.

They make killing too easy.

RockyTrail
01-13-2006, 18:37
This is not about gun control, politics, etc.. It is about society and the issues that we all face day to day and how we deal with it.


He says he wants to be a serial killer. A trial without delay followed by public hanging would prevent this S.O.B. from ever doing this again.

Spartan Hiker
01-13-2006, 18:59
My earlier comments were in a response to Wookie's idea that had the Republicans not been in power this "sicko", the shooter, wouldn't have had an oppurtunity to get his hands on an assault rifle and this crime could have been prevented. My internal BS flag went up so I felt my first response was necessary albeit inappropriate or appropriate. I should have realized that asking "what's the difference" between anything on this site brings out an array of experts. I guess this thread isn't one for open ended questions. I'll try to do better.

Get used to throwing BS flags around here. Liberals are all about doing whats best for the rest of us but rarely apply the same standards to themselves, including taking away our inherent right to bear arms. Besides, they're intellectually lazy and/or dishonest when characterizing weapons like the perfectly legal version of the Kalishnikov cited. I guess they just can't grasp the concept that an inanimate object like a firearm can't kill on its own power, except in perhaps the most bizarre of circumstances- but then, liberals live in a bizzaro world so maybe that explains the rationale.

Tha Wookie
01-13-2006, 19:20
Get used to throwing BS flags around here. Liberals are all about doing whats best for the rest of us but rarely apply the same standards to themselves, including taking away our inherent right to bear arms. Besides, they're intellectually lazy and/or dishonest when characterizing weapons like the perfectly legal version of the Kalishnikov cited. I guess they just can't grasp the concept that an inanimate object like a firearm can't kill on its own power, except in perhaps the most bizarre of circumstances- but then, liberals live in a bizzaro world so maybe that explains the rationale.

Weapons of Mass Destruction don't kill anybody -right?

I want to know what genius came up with the "guns don't kill people" defense. Talk about intellectually lazy!

How about "pulling your finger in doesn't kill people -guns kill people!"

I surely don't want to take your guns away. I too want my own rights to have a gun. I feel like the way our rights our being removed, we'll most likely need them to protect ourselves. The gun zealots on this site really need to relax......:cool:

But an AK-47?

Anyone who can't keep it out of the hands of people like this kid never deserved to have one in the first place.

Too bad Saddam didn't think of your brilliant excuse for weapons. :p

AdelitaDB
01-13-2006, 23:59
I knew one of the victims, Amber Peck. She had a right to bear arms but she did not. The other victim served in the Marines and deserved to be able to defend himself, but people like Wookie and those who think that bad guys will just sink into a swamp somewhere and never use a weapon against an innocent victim need to wake up! The more the good citizen's rights are encroached upon, the more dear sweet innocent daughters and sons will be murdered by those who refuse to abide by the "gun laws". We are the ones who suffer.

I pray Wookie nothing like this ever happens to you when you had an opportunity to carry a weapon and fight back. They didn't have that opportunity and it has NOTHING to do with gun laws.

Some sick kid, seriously ill for many years, let out of the system to harm the public yet again. This time tearing into the hearts, souls, dreams....there are no words. I am still in shock, but angry and hurt. Saddened that you would prefer to turn her death into a political battle that my United States Constitution says should not even be an issue here.

You should be ashamed to call yourself a Wookie! The creatures with warrior heats and the battlements to back it up!

AdelitaDB
01-14-2006, 00:05
sorry, in my tears I mis-spelled hearts!

little bear
01-14-2006, 00:54
Sorry if there is confusion over politics or gun choices. I personally know the difference between an AK-47 and a 30.06, but that's not the point, nor the point I was trying to convey. The real tragedy here are the victims. My earlier comments were in a response to Wookie's idea that had the Republicans not been in power this "sicko", the shooter, wouldn't have had an oppurtunity to get his hands on an assault rifle and this crime could have been prevented. My internal BS flag went up so I felt my first response was necessary albeit inappropriate or appropriate. I should have realized that asking "what's the difference" between anything on this site brings out an array of experts. I guess this thread isn't one for open ended questions. I'll try to do better.

I was picking on you, I was just saying in general. But I know about weapons as well. Currently I am a Patrol Sergeant with a Police Dept, and before that I served in The United States Marine Corps. All I was getting at was we lost two hikers, two people how had went into the woods to try to get away from that violence.

little bear
01-14-2006, 00:56
that should have been not picking on you

khaynie
01-14-2006, 00:59
that should have been not picking on you

No offense taken. Just clarifying a few points. Unlike some, I don't wear my feelings on my sleeves. Happy trails!

Tha Wookie
01-14-2006, 11:18
Some sick kid, seriously ill for many years, let out of the system to harm the public yet again. This time tearing into the hearts, souls, dreams....there are no words. I am still in shock, but angry and hurt. Saddened that you would prefer to turn her death into a political battle that my United States Constitution says should not even be an issue here.



Go back and re-read my post. I'm not against the right to bear arms. I like guns.

I just think AK-47s are a bit excessive.

The issue tears me up too. Especially since it happened to such great-sounding victims.

This is not about politics. I'm not a liberal anyway. I just think for myself, so it seems that way.

And I think legalizing assault rifles was a big mistake, and we are seeing the consequences.

AdelitaDB
01-14-2006, 11:35
Although I partially agree with you Wookie, I don't think making the assault rifles illegal would have made a difference as people who WANT to use them and do terrible deeds such as this, would still be able to find/purchase/make or steal these weapons... :(

weary
01-14-2006, 11:49
....Saddened that you would prefer to turn her death into a political battle that my United States Constitution says should not even be an issue here.
I share the shock and hopelessness over these senseless murders. I don't know whether they could have been prevented or not -- but certainly they suggest that Florida's program for dealing with orphaned and troubled children needs a bit of thought.

As for constitutional issues, our constitution certainly allows members of a militia to bear arms and perhaps others to do so, also. But does the constitution truly permit us to carry any and all arms anyone might want. Should we be allowed to walk around with 50 caliber machine guns, portable nuclear bombs, AK-47s ...?

Is there a limit? and if so, what might it be?

Weary

lobster
01-14-2006, 14:03
Has Texans' right to carry concealed firearms reduced crime?

SteveJ
01-14-2006, 14:58
I meant primarily sick as in evil. Sin sick, soul sick, spirit sick, etc.

yeah, I know, Skidsteer... it just bothers me that we throw the word sick around when referring to evil people. it implies that they're really not responsible, and shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. and when they get well, everything will be ok. I'm sure you didn't intend that, but I just refuse to use the term when referring to bad people doing bad things.....

Nean
01-14-2006, 15:14
I see it this way, tha Wook is sick; and the kid is evil:-?

weary
01-14-2006, 15:42
yeah, I know, Skidsteer... it just bothers me that we throw the word sick around when referring to evil people. it implies that they're really not responsible, and shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. and when they get well, everything will be ok. I'm sure you didn't intend that, but I just refuse to use the term when referring to bad people doing bad things.....
What happened was evil. Why it happened is something none of us can know for sure, as yet, and perhaps never know. But the alleged murderer has been pretty much a ward of the State of Florida since the age of 10, suggesting the state may have been at least partially culpable. Maybe of course the culprit may be inherently evil and no one could have changed his behavior.

If so, let's think how that condition could best be described. Perhaps, "sick?"

Weary

Fiddler
01-14-2006, 15:58
IMO - Sick can usually be cured, Evil cannot.

CaptChaos
01-15-2006, 01:00
Good Evening Everyone.

Sorry that I can't keep my mouth shut on this but catching up on the post on this subject has brought something to my mind that I do have a problem with.

We all know that we have the right to bear arms. But I noticed years ago since I live very close to Mammoth Cave National Park that guns are not allowed in the park. This also applies for the Great Smokey National Park as well, since I do backpack there whenever I can.

The rub that I have with all of this is that by law then I am denied the right to protect myself if I want to backpack through the National Park. Yet, the Park Service will not ensure that my rights or life will be protected.

By nature that I was raised to obey the law I have no choice that if I wish to backpack in the Great Smokey Mtns or Mammoth Cave National Part that I have to give up my right to arm myself and in a sense I submit myself to becoming a victim since the other person has chosen not to obey the law and comes to the National Park somewhere on the trail and blows me away since I can't defend myself.

Several years ago I brought this up and I was told by several law enforcement officers that they would not backpack at Mamouth Cave National Park unless they were packing. So what do you do. From KY's point of view if I was caught with a gun in my pocession then it is a misdamenaor. The officers stated that this implies that KY is not that concerned about the carry of a gun. Since that time we now have concel carry laws but you still can't carry a gun in a National Park.

So if I am not willing to become a victim but I intend to follow the letter of the law then I can no longer backpack in the National Parks and I am paying for them with my taxes. Yet I pay for them and now I can't use them so my rights are now being walked upon.

For me this is an endless cycle that has no correct answer. I get mad when I hear stories about the couple that was killed because I do not have the answer.

In closing, I had an officer tell me one day that law enforcement is misunderstood. An officer does not protect you but enforces the law. I had to think about this and it hit me like a ton of bricks. What he is saying is if an officer was present when someone tried to kill you the officer would enforce the law and kill the person if he had to to keep you alive. But if the officer is not present then he cannot do anything until a law has been broken. So you have to get killed before they will do something about it.

This is a sick and twisted catch 22 and I don't like it.

John

MedicineMan
01-15-2006, 03:41
I dont like guns, but own them.
Was smart enough to know I didnt have gun knowledge so hired an ex-marine to spend much time with us teaching us the basics.
Now the sad reality.....if you study past advanced and not so advanced civilizations since 1776 you will find a trend. Where gun control laws were passed in succesively stricter fashion toward the ultimate illegality of possessing a firearm by any but the controlling government the end result over and over again is genocide. GENOCIDE.
The Founding Fathers of this country could foresee this and even in their time dealt with homicide, accidental death and the tragedy it brings.
It was to them, and to us a weighing of the benifit/risk ratio with the obvious staring them and us in the face- that if we do ultimately remove guns/firearms from the common man the end result with be yet another Killer Field or Gulag. This country, if you havent noticed is the last bastion, the only country (Switzerland is an exception) remaining where the citizens could actually resist a tyranical government, maybe a government led by a madman bent on the removal of a type of people or type of thought.
Was it that the Jews were so placid that they allowed the Nazis to herd them to their deaths? No, rather they were attempting to be good citizens and answer the governments pleas to help arm the German soldier against the coming Communist that they willingly gave up their arms.
No one wants the death of a teenager or younger to a firearms accident. No one wants a crazed individual randomly taking out 10 in a McDonalds, yet our Founding Fathers knew all to well that a Blunderbuss could have done the same (and did) in a Tavern so long ago.
I dont like guns. I own them. I study their use. I prepare for the inevitable.

Skidsteer
01-15-2006, 10:11
but I just refuse to use the term when referring to bad people doing bad things.....

I can live with that.:)

Max Power
01-19-2006, 15:28
In the St.Pete times today they said his (Boatman, the killer) bus trip and $500 plus dollars in camping gear was purchased with the money the state gave him for being a foster child.
They're also looking for a disposable camera that he purchased before the crime. They believe it has further evidence.

There is post titled "smokies death" that sounds too familiar to this story, there isn't much news out on it yet.

Fiddler
01-19-2006, 16:01
There is post titled "smokies death" that sounds too familiar to this story, there isn't much news out on it yet.

Hope it wasn't done with an AK and get all that s**t started again.

Amigi'sLastStand
05-23-2006, 03:27
The ban was a joke. Never worked and never could have. The only thing that really keeps a populace free is if that populace is armed. Reason for the Second Amendment.
I this psycho wanted to kill, he would have used an axe if he didnt have a gun. Gun laws only keep guns out of law-abiding citizens hand. As they say, "Laws-- good ppl dont need 'em and bad ppl ignore them"

Kozmic Zian
05-23-2006, 07:06
Yea, 'To Much TV'....

I'm appalled at the inherent 'gun talk', 'kill talk', and lack or respect for those who have passed before us. All I can say is that the lst post in this thread was informative and sad, for the families and friends of the victims....Has anyone here ever known a 'victim' of a heinous crime. Informative, that other hikers can know of the dangers in the 'wilds'....but that's about it....right? No need to carry on with the 'gun, knife, fist, kill, TV violence thing that everyone seems so intent on mirroring. So, that's it, guys. Can we observe some sanity, here? [email protected]