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jjozgrunt
09-17-2016, 22:34
Just out of interest and to ensure I'm in town on this day, what day is naked hike day on the AT next year?

Malto
09-17-2016, 22:53
Summer soltice

Sarcasm the elf
09-17-2016, 23:38
Summer soltice

Correct, but Real hikers celebrate it on winter solstice! :D

Furlough
09-18-2016, 07:28
Solstices:
Summer - June 21 2017 04:24 GMT, Winter -
December 21 2017 16:28 GMT

Engine
09-18-2016, 07:54
We should be somewhere between Monson and Stratton, headed south...hopefully with plenty of sunscreen. :-)

Furlough
09-18-2016, 08:43
We should be somewhere between Monson and Stratton, headed south...hopefully with plenty of sunscreen. :-)
...and liberally applied bug repellant.

Sparkeh
09-18-2016, 09:07
We saw no one hiking naked on summer solstice this year.

bigcranky
09-18-2016, 09:22
We saw no one hiking naked on summer solstice this year.

Maybe 'cause they don't want to end up on the sex offender registry, or something.

OkeefenokeeJoe
09-18-2016, 09:58
Maybe 'cause they don't want to end up on the sex offender registry, or something.

I'm as conservative as anyone anyone on this forum, probably exceedingly more so but, please tell me, what elements of the federal or state sex offender statute does hiking nude violate?

Give up?

None.

Certainly, there might be a violation of public decency statutes but, sex offender? .... No sir.

On the other hand, if you are already on the sex offender registry for a previous sex-related conviction(s) and are currently under state or federal supervision and THEN get busted for public indecency, then you will more than likely be returned to prison, but not necessarily for the specific conduct of hiking nude, but because you engaged in new criminal conduct, thereby, violating the terms and conditions of your supervision, as directed by the Court, under the sex offender statutes.

There you go.

OkeefenokeeJoe

Rain Man
09-18-2016, 10:17
I'm as conservative as anyone anyone on this forum, probably exceedingly more so but, please tell me, what elements of the federal or state sex offender statute does hiking nude violate?

Give up?

None.

True. But an over-zealous or unethical prosecutor might still use the "sex offender" threat to coerce a plea bargain out of an innocent nudist.

To me, people who equate simple nudism with sex offense are the perverts, with minds in the gutter.

colorado_rob
09-18-2016, 10:24
To me, people who equate simple nudism with sex offense are the perverts, with minds in the gutter.Well said! This "sex offender" topic sure comes up a lot on here, anything from the Solstice hike-nude thing to the mooning of the train...

As far as I know, the nudity laws vary from state to state, some states allowing full public nudity, others showing a butt cheek is a felony, IIRC. Might be nice to know such things....

Furlough
09-18-2016, 10:25
I'm as conservative as anyone anyone on this forum, probably exceedingly more so but, please tell me, what elements of the federal or state sex offender statute does hiking nude violate?

Give up?

None.

Certainly, there might be a violation of public decency statutes but, sex offender? .... No sir.

On the other hand, if you are already on the sex offender registry for a previous sex-related conviction(s) and are currently under state or federal supervision and THEN get busted for public indecency, then you will more than likely be returned to prison, but not necessarily for the specific conduct of hiking nude, but because you engaged in new criminal conduct, thereby, violating the terms and conditions of your supervision, as directed by the Court, under the sex offender statutes.

There you go.

OkeefenokeeJoe

I know the 2 issues - being nude in public and public urination - are not the same thing. But I recall an article a few years back on reasons by state you could be made to register as a sex offender. Something like 12 states had this law for public urination. At least 4 were states the AT ran through (Ga, Vt, NH, Ma). The source cited was the Human Rights Watch, Washington College of Law. Does not seem to be a long leap of logic to think that if public urination can get you on the list, public nudity could too. Not a lawyer, and I would guess regardless of the offensive, if you have a good lawyer and sufficient enough gold to cross his/her palms with any of these offenses are can be over-come.

Coffee
09-18-2016, 10:33
Equating nude hiking with a sex offense (for someone with no prior record) seems unjustified. At the same time hikers should make an effort to comply with the norms of society where they are hiking. It is probably a lot more acceptable to hike nude or sunbathe nude at some remote lake in the High Sierra than to walk out of the woods in Damascus nude and stroll through town. People should use common sense and good judgment.

Furlough
09-18-2016, 10:41
+1 to People should use common sense and good judgement. Emphasis added on the word should.

colorado_rob
09-18-2016, 11:26
+1 to People should use common sense and good judgement. Emphasis added on the word should. but with respect to public nudity, can someone define "common sense" and especially "good judgement" ? I think most of us kinda agree, I sure don't want to "bare my soul", and no one (except my wife...) wants me to, and if I were hiking with my kids along the AT and a bunch of nudes folks were coming the other way, being the slight prude that I am, I'd have my kids look away, but I sure wouldn't think that if they didn't look away, seeing a bunch of nude folks would in any way harm them. But, of course, not all would agree.

A lot of the rest of the world laughs at the overwhelming prudishness of the USA. It really is kinda ridiculous, a leftover of our earlier puritanical and religious history, I would guess.

Coffee
09-18-2016, 11:32
but with respect to public nudity, can someone define "common sense" and especially "good judgement" ?

Even the Supreme Court has difficulty with this question ("I'll know it when I see it"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobellis_v._Ohio

That's not a very satisfactory criteria but with social norms it probably can't be more precise. IMO what is socially acceptable in some places is not in others. I'm reminded of Deep Creek hot springs on the PCT. Nude people everywhere, and not just on "hike nude" day. This is in liberal southern California. It wouldn't be accepted in Georgia, North Carolina, or Virginia.

Traveler
09-18-2016, 12:16
I'm as conservative as anyone anyone on this forum, probably exceedingly more so but, please tell me, what elements of the federal or state sex offender statute does hiking nude violate?

Give up?

None.

Certainly, there might be a violation of public decency statutes but, sex offender? .... No sir.

On the other hand, if you are already on the sex offender registry for a previous sex-related conviction(s) and are currently under state or federal supervision and THEN get busted for public indecency, then you will more than likely be returned to prison, but not necessarily for the specific conduct of hiking nude, but because you engaged in new criminal conduct, thereby, violating the terms and conditions of your supervision, as directed by the Court, under the sex offender statutes.

There you go.

OkeefenokeeJoe

A lot depends on the State and/or Jurisdiction. Most public decency laws that can either be a ticket or a criminal charge hinge on intent. For example, if one is changing into a bathing suit by the side of the road under a towel and the towel is blown off by a gust of wind, that would be unintentional and likely not actionable. If that same person opted to change on the beach without a towel, that would fall into the indecent exposure category, which is deliberate exposure in public and actionable in most states at various levels. Since the AT is a public place by definition, one plays a bit of roulette with the law if they opt to be au natural.

Hiking naked on a trail is deliberate and can carry a serious penalty if a complaint is filed. A lot of States if not most, include indecent exposure as an offense requiring registration, which follows you the rest of your life unfortunately.

NY HIKER 50
09-18-2016, 12:36
Let' put this in perspective. Clothing is usually worn for protection as well as for social norms. When you start to expose parts of the body that normally are not exposed to the sun there can be some real problems. Ever notice the way desert people dress? If you do this too many times you will be visiting the dermatologist for a spray of liquid nitrogen or worse. This can even cause premature ageing as well. Sunscreen can slide off after a while and spf clothing is the best bet. Any comments?

bigcranky
09-18-2016, 13:36
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/indecent-exposure.html

"Indecent exposure laws in most states make it a crime to purposefully display one's genitals in public, causing others to be alarmed or offended. "

".... in some states any indecent exposure conviction subjects you to a lifetime duty to register as a register as a sex offender. "

I am not an attorney, so this is not any sort of legal advice. But for me personally, I would not partake in "naked hiking day" due to this risk. (I am in no way a prude, nor has anyone ever accused me of being the least bit conservative. Many of these laws are stupid. Etc.)

colorado_rob
09-18-2016, 13:47
Let' put this in perspective. Clothing is usually worn for protection as well as for social norms. When you start to expose parts of the body that normally are not exposed to the sun there can be some real problems. Ever notice the way desert people dress? If you do this too many times you will be visiting the dermatologist for a spray of liquid nitrogen or worse. This can even cause premature ageing as well. Sunscreen can slide off after a while and spf clothing is the best bet. Any comments?Sure, I'll comment... No argument whatsoever. Yeah, us pure whitie's have no business running around nekked in the sun, zero argument there. Ouch! Then there's the "bouncing around" thing. Ouch again! And really, who wants to look at nearly any one of us nekked?

There really is zero reason I can see for "streaking". Butt: I did in college, it was a blast. So there. It was the 70's. A different era. RIP, oh best decade there ever was!

Tuckahoe
09-18-2016, 14:59
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/indecent-exposure.html

"Indecent exposure laws in most states make it a crime to purposefully display one's genitals in public, causing others to be alarmed or offended. "

".... in some states any indecent exposure conviction subjects you to a lifetime duty to register as a register as a sex offender. "

I am not an attorney, so this is not any sort of legal advice. But for me personally, I would not partake in "naked hiking day" due to this risk. (I am in no way a prude, nor has anyone ever accused me of being the least bit conservative. Many of these laws are stupid. Etc.)

And just to add to Bigcranky's link, here is another...
https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31193

samton
09-18-2016, 17:23
Something I hope I never see is a naked hiker

OkeefenokeeJoe
09-18-2016, 19:22
HA!

Even in the Great State of Alabama the chances of anyone being charged and convicted under Sex Offender statutes for simply hiking in the nude (UNLESS there was an aggravating factor involved) is slim to zero.

Furthermore, do a Lexis/Nexis search and see how many convictions in recent years under Sex Offender statutes have occurred while simply hiking in the nude.

Accordingly, the chances of getting popped on the AT for hiking in the nude and prosecuted under Sex Offender statutes are pretty much a big fat ZEEERO, which makes the argument that people don't hike in the nude on the AT for fear of being placed on the sex offender registry is baseless except, of course, for the ignorant.

My guess is that most people don't participate in nude hiking day is that most folks still have (although diminishing) at least a modicum of personal ethics and respect for others to the point they simply refrain from such behavior.

For 40 years I have criminally indicted and prosecuted a trainload of true sex offenders in the State and United States District Courts, and have provided expert testimony regarding sex offender statutes. There is a lot more involved than doing a jailhouse lawyer google search and getting some very basic, mostly outdated, information.

OkeefenokeeJoe

AfterParty
09-18-2016, 19:56
I hardly ever wear shorts much less go hiking naked I can't imagine how a pack would feel straight up on skin. But if you wanna hike naked do it I have no issue with your choices.

Bronk
09-18-2016, 20:16
People always say "I wouldn't want to see X person naked." Ugly people are ugly whether they have clothes on or not. And people that say this are giving away the fact that they equate nudity with sexuality and they really are two separate things. In many parts of the world and in many different situations nudity is not that big of a deal...its all a matter of what people are used to. Public nudity is legal in every state...what is argued over is the context. Everybody has removed their clothing in public places at one time or another, it just most likely in a socially acceptable situation, such as in a public restroom, shower, etc. Many National Forest areas do not have restroom facilities. They do not have shower facilities. Common sense dictates that you can't be expected to go on an overnight camping trip and not use the restroom or shower. So it follows that public nudity is acceptable in the National Forest.

illabelle
09-18-2016, 20:17
Since you brought it up, what constitutes "public urination" in the context of the AT? After all, unless you're in the privy (a word built from privacy, I think), you're technically in public. Or are you? Are you in public at a shelter? at a campsite? at a trailhead? Downtown Damascus? summit of Max Patch?

And for those who have been arrested for public urination, is urination the offense, or is the exposure? I'm curious because I use a P-style. In theory, I could urinate in a public place with very little exposure - not saying I want to, just curious.

Odd Man Out
09-18-2016, 22:09
I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the Internet.
But I was on in SNP last June during HND. The night before, there were a bunch of thru hikers hanging out at the Elkwallow Wayside eating dinner. There was much bravado as they discussed HND coming up the next day. "Everyone does it" they all said. "It tradition - you have to do it" said others. Because I was hiking SOBO and I was in the middle of the NOBO bubble, this group of thru hikers went the opposite direction. If they participated I wouldn't know. But I passed dozens of other thru hikers the next day as I hike further south and they all looked very much clothed. As far as I could tell I was the only one participating. But since I was on a 50 mile section hike, I was only hiking 5% of the trail so I was only 5% naked - My legs were bare from the top of my socks to the bottom of my shorts. My arms were probably naked too.

Sarcasm the elf
09-18-2016, 22:31
But since I was on a 50 mile section hike, I was only hiking 5% of the trail so I was only 5% naked - My legs were bare from the top of my socks to the bottom of my shorts. My arms were probably naked too.

I like the way you think!

Bronk
09-18-2016, 22:55
I'd bet that many cases of public nudity would never even make it past the prosecutor. Perfect example, around here a few years ago a college student streaked Walmart on a dare. His friends dropped him off at one entrance and he was supposed to run all the way to the back of the store, cross to the other side and then come out the other entrance where the car would be waiting for him. His friends saw the police car pulling into the parking lot and drove all the way to the other end of the lot and threw his clothes out the window. He made a gallant effort and was just finishing putting his clothes on when the police car pulled up next to him. He spent the night in jail and no charges were ever filed. More than likely the prosecutor figured it was a college prank and the kid spent the night in jail and it need go no further.

I'd also bet a lot of these cases revolve around whether or not the person had a reasonable expectation of privacy...was it in the woods where no other people were around, 10 miles from a road, or were there six families having a picnic at a roadside park? Were you behind a bush (or at least thought you were)?

The other issue is probably whether or not there was a sexual component to the nudity. Were you using the restroom, bathing, etc?

But a person just walking around nude is a whole nuther ball game. How do you prove a sexual component to this? You'd have to know what was going through the person's mind, which might be why some prosecutors don't pursue a lot of these types of cases. Unless the person's behavior is overtly sexual, you might have a very hard time getting a jury to convict, and prosecutors don't like to try cases they might lose. But they may still try to talk you into accepting a plea bargain for a lesser charge.

I remember one time I was hiking and had to pee. It was a steep section of the trail so there wasn't much room to step off the trail, so I stepped about 10 feet off the trail, conducted my business, and as I was zipping up my fly I looked up and saw a young woman sitting on a rock about 20 feet away staring right at me. I had been looking down as I was walking and didn't see her. She was sitting down resting so I didn't hear her either. Was a crime committed here? I don't think so.

jjozgrunt
09-19-2016, 00:46
Something I hope I never see is a naked hiker

We actually have a couple of Naked Bushwalking clubs in Australia, one walks a lot in the Blue Mountains. Not anything I would try as even the plants here are trying to sting, stab, scratch and generally trying to inflict trauma on you.

I love how a simple question on here heads off into multiple directions when a simple date was all that was required. Love some of the comments though.

Coffee
09-19-2016, 09:28
Since you brought it up, what constitutes "public urination" in the context of the AT? After all, unless you're in the privy (a word built from privacy, I think), you're technically in public.

Again I think common sense is required. I always get well off trail and try to find some reasonably dense trees or brush. I admit, I've been lazy at times and gone just 10 feet from the trail if I haven't seen other hikers in hours... but I don't think I've ever heard of a hiker being arrested for unintentionally being seen urinating. You want to talk about public urination? Go to any marathon or longer road race ... it's ridiculous!

terryg49
09-19-2016, 10:19
I live in a clothing optional community in central Florida... every day is hike (morning 3 mile walk) nude day.

Uriah
09-19-2016, 10:35
I think I've witness just three naked hikers on "Hike Naked Day", after about 15,000 miles of thru-hiking. That's probably a good thing though.

Engine
09-19-2016, 11:31
...and liberally applied bug repellant.

Yes, that would be important! :D

rickb
09-19-2016, 11:53
In the Whites, the Feds somehow felt it necessary to write these regulations in 2008:



36302


36304

Click
09-19-2016, 13:17
There really is zero reason I can see for "streaking". Butt: I did in college, it was a blast. So there. It was the 70's. A different era. RIP, oh best decade there ever was!

Dang, now I'm cleaning coffee of my monitor...lol

Just Bill
09-19-2016, 13:32
I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the Internet.
But I was on in SNP last June during HND. The night before, there were a bunch of thru hikers hanging out at the Elkwallow Wayside eating dinner. There was much bravado as they discussed HND coming up the next day. "Everyone does it" they all said. "It tradition - you have to do it" said others. Because I was hiking SOBO and I was in the middle of the NOBO bubble, this group of thru hikers went the opposite direction. If they participated I wouldn't know. But I passed dozens of other thru hikers the next day as I hike further south and they all looked very much clothed. As far as I could tell I was the only one participating. But since I was on a 50 mile section hike, I was only hiking 5% of the trail so I was only 5% naked - My legs were bare from the top of my socks to the bottom of my shorts. My arms were probably naked too.

:D
I think your experience is the most common one. Lotta talk, occasional action, and much like a teenage drunken strip poker game... usually a bunch of dudes trying to trick one gal into losing and ending up with everyone a bit disappointed regardless of the results. More often than not with growing social media you see some hike naked day homages, but quite likely after the photo is posted everyone updates their facey and instagram, high fives and gets dressed.

I think naked bonfire goes over well enough here and there- but celebrating hike naked day on any trails outside the big three would either be a long day of me impersonating Colin Fletcher or me impersonating a lawyer as I tried to get out of trouble.

Sarcasm the elf
09-19-2016, 13:49
:D
I think your experience is the most common one. Lotta talk, occasional action, and much like a teenage drunken strip poker game... usually a bunch of dudes trying to trick one gal into losing and ending up with everyone a bit disappointed regardless of the results. More often than not with growing social media you see some hike naked day homages, but quite likely after the photo is posted everyone updates their facey and instagram, high fives and gets dressed.

I think naked bonfire goes over well enough here and there- but celebrating hike naked day on any trails outside the big three would either be a long day of me impersonating Colin Fletcher or me impersonating a lawyer as I tried to get out of trouble.


http://www.theonion.com/article/nations-moms-dance-nude-around-moonlit-bonfire-to--34974

Sarcasm the elf
09-19-2016, 13:51
In the Whites, the Feds somehow felt it necessary to write these regulations in 2008:



36302


36304

Is that also known as the "Stop mooning the cog railway" proclamation?

HooKooDooKu
09-19-2016, 14:05
Since you brought it up, what constitutes "public urination" in the context of the AT? After all, unless you're in the privy (a word built from privacy, I think), you're technically in public. Or are you? Are you in public at a shelter? at a campsite? at a trailhead? Downtown Damascus? summit of Max Patch?...
While the laws will vary from place to place, apparently there are exceptions to peeing in the woods. As an example, I found that Tennessee Law (http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-13/part-5/39-13-511) makes an exception to the crime of "Public Indecent Exposure" for a person that makes "reasonable attempts to conceal [themselves]... while performing an excretory function...in an unincorporated area of the state".

Another Kevin
09-19-2016, 16:57
I never was one for the whole summer-solstice thing. Nor have I seen a naked hiker, solstice or otherwise, in about the last 30 or 35 years.

If I'm naked in the woods, I'm probably doing one of :


relieving myself
changing underwear
checking my nether regions for ticks or other vermin
bathing
swimming (Who bothers to bring swim trunks on a backpacking trip? I'll forgo swimming in the front country, and trust that nobody in the wilderness will be shocked.)


That goes for virtually everyone I've met on trail - at least once the 1970's were gone. (The long-haired hippie freaks back then were a lot more casual about such things. I decided it wasn't really for me, even back then, after the first time that I sat down on a sunburnt arse.)

On some of the trips I've done, I could surely have got away with it - some of them, I didn't see a person for a couple of days. Nevertheless, any time that the weather would allow for doing it in comfort, the mosquitoes, deerflies, blackflies, or other bloodsuckers would be out.

As far as mooning the Cog goes, I think if I were ever to do that stunt, I'd appliqué a crescent moon on my baselayer and drop my trousers while exposing only my contempt.

That said, any hiker with any amount of experience is NOT going to get all bent out of shape if you accidentally see the hiker's you-know-what or the hiker sees yours. I personally feel about that sort of thing much the same way that I do about firearms: I don't care what you're packing, or whether I accidentally get a glimpse of it, as long as you don't wave it in my face.

Lnj
09-19-2016, 17:45
That said, any hiker with any amount of experience is NOT going to get all bent out of shape if you accidentally see the hiker's you-know-what or the hiker sees yours. I personally feel about that sort of thing much the same way that I do about firearms: I don't care what you're packing, or whether I accidentally get a glimpse of it, as long as you don't wave it in my face.
ROTFL AK!!!!!!!

Coffee
09-19-2016, 17:47
Just an opinion on trail etiquette ... if you're sitting somewhere quietly and another hiker doesn't see you and looks like he or she is about to relieve themselves in plain sight from your location, I think that it is better to yell a quick "Hey, how's it going!" before they get started than to let an embarrassing situation unfold...

kayak karl
09-19-2016, 18:03
Something I hope I never see is a naked hiker

I think you have the start of a good poem.....or limerick :)

rocketsocks
09-19-2016, 20:59
Something I hope I never see is a naked hikerwhere none there be.


I think you have the start of a good poem.....or limerick :)

Maydog
09-20-2016, 00:21
There once was a hiker from Jersey...

jjozgrunt
09-20-2016, 01:47
Who hiked naked at nature's mercy

LoneRidgeRunner
09-20-2016, 17:00
Who would go trapsing through the woods naked any way and get your nads all scratched up? I won't even hike with short pants or sleeves..And that even includes hot weather, which I try to avoid anyway.

Seatbelt
09-21-2016, 07:44
That said, any hiker with any amount of experience is NOT going to get all bent out of shape if you accidentally see the hiker's you-know-what or the hiker sees yours. I personally feel about that sort of thing much the same way that I do about firearms: I don't care what you're packing, or whether I accidentally get a glimpse of it, as long as you don't wave it in my face.

Reminds me of stopping in the rain at Laurel Shelter north of Allen Gap a few years ago and there were 8 or 10 of us in a shelter rated at 5 or 6 people.It was raining cats and dogs and we all were trying to dry out best we could. None of us cared what each other looked like naked that day as we tried to get changed and hang up our clothes. When we all finally settled down, It looked like a chinese laundry with all the clothes hanging. Next morning everything was frozen after it got down in the 20's. Had some great conversation and made a few friends that nite.