View Full Version : running a marathon before thru-hike?
kara1702
09-21-2016, 14:22
Hi ya'll, I'm planning to thru hike 2017 but I also already have plans to run my first marathon this spring. I'm a very inexperienced backpacker but I have a couple 3 day hikes planned to affirm my plans, test gear, etc.
What does everyone think about marathon recovery time before starting the hike? Do you think that if I start two weeks after the race I'll be rested enough? I'm pretty in shape, run regularly, and have completed several half marathons. Do you know anyone who has done this?
Dates are tricky because the marathon pretty much needs to be May. I was thinking of doing a flip flop pawling, NY to katahdin.. flip back to pawling and go south.. would leaving in June 4th be too late?
Any advice is helpful! Thanks so much!
You'll be totally fine! That's great training for your hike. Two summers ago I did the Blue Ridge half marathon with my wife. Admittedly I walked it because she was pregnant at the time, but I'd done a good bit of training leading up to the event. Anyway... I went straight from the finish line into a change of clothes and onto a bus for GA. Started the approach trail the next day and did the first half of the BMT over the following week. Plenty of muscle soreness, but nothing major. You'll have two weeks of rest, so that's perfect. Enjoy your race and your hike!
Odd Man Out
09-21-2016, 14:38
Welcome to WB kara. Congrats on your plans for running and hiking, and on your first post. :banana
I would think two hours (or the time it takes to eat a really big meal) would be sufficient. The main reason - the thru hike is not a race. No one gives a hoot how fast you hike.
Bad idea--don't do the marathon unless you are comfortable with a decent possibility of missing your thru-hike. I've run 2 marathons and a few halves, and training for the marathon was much more painful and intense. IIRC, a large proportion of people training for their first marathon end up getting hurt. My wife got a stress fracture halfway through training for her first marathon.
The question you need to ask yourself is: do I care about the marathon so much that I'm willing to miss or delay the thru-hike to try to run the marathon? If you've already arranged your life to do the thru next summer, then I would suggest putting off the marathon. Also, distance running really isn't the best training for a thru-hike. You need to work on your strength and climbing muscles by doing a lot of hiking, not your endurance by running long, flat (more or less) distances.
(BTW, I'd ignore the post above since it's not from a marathon runner).
Also, here's an alternative idea: a hiker I met on the CDT ran a marathon immediately (like within 1-2 weeks) after each of her triple crown thru hikes and got pretty good times. I've heard of a couple of other hikers doing the same. By the time you finish your thru, you will be in insanely good shape, and a marathon run may be a possibility.
If you decide to do the marathon, I'd say give yourself at least a week and preferably two before starting the hike. I was doing easy runs again within 3-4 days after each of my marathons, but for taking on something like the AT, I'd probably want 7-10 days off at least.
If you decide to do the marathon, I'd say give yourself at least a week and preferably two before starting the hike. I was doing easy runs again within 3-4 days after each of my marathons, but for taking on something like the AT, I'd probably want 7-10 days off at least.
Women recover more quickly than men.
nsherry61
09-21-2016, 15:09
It totally depends on you. If this is your first marathon and a marathon is the longest run you've ever done, then there are a lot of unknowns, and no advice here will be appropriate other than to give you a range of 2 hr to 2 wks. My college roommate would run a marathon whenever he thought it sounded like a good idea - several times per year. He would be be on the two beers and two hrs side of things. My highschool girlfriend ran her first marathon and then limped for two weeks afterwords.
So obviously experiences and advice will differ. But here is my take. I train for marathons year-round and have done two in most years since 2013: one in the spring and another in the fall. It is my primary way of staying in shape year round. I have found that marathon training keeps me in excellent physical condition for long distance hiking. However, the reverse is not true: After a long distance hike, I am not physically "optimized" for running long distances at anywhere near the speeds I'm capable of when I am training specifically for a marathon.
For a first time marathoner, my advice would be to listen to your body and think about your priorities in the spring. In other words, if during long runs your body feels like you're on the edge in terms of injury, think about whether the marathon or the hike is the priority when deciding how far to push yourself. Pushing yourself for the marathon could result in injury ruining the hike, so if the hike is the priority, be ready to back off and run a marathon another time.
What I think is non-controversial is that the cardiovascular conditioning one gets from long distance hiking is going to be a huge help with long distance hiking. Good luck.
In other words, if during long runs your body feels like you're on the edge in terms of injury, think about whether the marathon or the hike is the priority when deciding how far to push yourself. Pushing yourself for the marathon could result in injury ruining the hike, so if the hike is the priority, be ready to back off and run a marathon another time.
This is where I disagree. Serious injuries, like stress fractures, that can cause you to miss a thru-hiking window can come on with zero warning. It's one thing to dial back training or skip the marathon if you're having some knee pain or shin splints. Those things usually come on gradually and give you warning. But a stress fracture or an achilles strain or other injuries might just pop up out of the blue, and if that happens close to the thru-hike start date, you can forget the thru hike.
I've spent a lot of time on running boards, and I think that folks who run multiple marathons successfully give bad advice sometimes because they assume that anyone can do what they do. Not true! Injuries happen, and if someone isn't really suited to run long distances they're not going to know until they actually train for one. Do you really want to discover this right before your thru hike? I sure wouldn't.
Spirit Walker
09-21-2016, 16:05
One possibility is to do an earlier marathon. Myrtl Beach is in March. Gettysburg is in April. There are many others that aren't that far from you. You have time to train for them, assuming you are currently running decent mileage. Marathon training will get you in very good shape, as long as you don't get injured.
As others have said, you also need to spend some time training with your pack and gear so that you are comfortable in the woods and climbing mountains with weight on your back. Backpacking does use different muscles from running, but if your pack is light enough, you can get conditioned fairly quickly.
Recovery after a marathon really depends on what your mileage is going in to the race and how hard you race it. (i.e. a 20 mile a week runner will have a much harder time doing the distance than a 60 mile a week runner) Most first time marathoners aren't out for speed, they just want to finish, so they don't really push terribly hard. You are also young, which helps with recovery. I'm older, so marathon recovery takes me a while, but I'd still be able to do a thruhike within a month, especially since the AT allows you to start with very low mileage days.
You can start a thruhike just about any time. Southbounders start as late as August. Doing a flip flop you just aim to reach Katahdin before mid-October. If you are in good shape, as you would be as a runner, doing 15 mile days won't be difficult.
This is where I disagree. Serious injuries, like stress fractures, that can cause you to miss a thru-hiking window can come on with zero warning. It's one thing to dial back training or skip the marathon if you're having some knee pain or shin splints. Those things usually come on gradually and give you warning. But a stress fracture or an achilles strain or other injuries might just pop up out of the blue, and if that happens close to the thru-hike start date, you can forget the thru hike.
I've spent a lot of time on running boards, and I think that folks who run multiple marathons successfully give bad advice sometimes because they assume that anyone can do what they do. Not true! Injuries happen, and if someone isn't really suited to run long distances they're not going to know until they actually train for one. Do you really want to discover this right before your thru hike? I sure wouldn't.
I wouldn't argue that it is much more conservative to get in shape using some lower impact form of cardiovascular exercise - cycling, using elliptical machines, etc. Certainly for a first time marathoner, it would be best to train at a time when a long distance hike is not on the horizon, if the priority is on the hike rather than completing the first marathon. So I do not really disagree with what you are saying.
kara1702
09-21-2016, 18:32
This is all great advice.. and you've all given me a lot to think about so far. I still have time to think about it but I'm leaning towards the Pittsburgh Marathon (I've had these plans with an Ohio friend for years so I just can't back out and this is a great middle location for both) on May 7th and leave 2ish weeks after that for the hike. We have no time goal at all for the marathon, just to finish. I know a marathon is a different beast but I recovered very quickly after all the half-marathons so I'm hoping for the same this time.
SkeeterPee
09-21-2016, 22:03
So much depends on you. Being young you should recover quicker. My first marathon was at 24, I was running 70miles/week then. I was still very sore after that finish. The harder you run it the more sore you will be. But if you have consistent training you probably will be less sore.
Ive since done 13 more marathons and when run easy, I have actually run a second 6 days later. But generally I could run 6-12 miles a week later. 2 weeks might be enough, but if you are tight you may be more likely to hurt something as you go up/down hills.
Good Luck. You should have great lungs for hiking with all that running.
I did a section hike in the southern Appalachians this May four weeks after having run in a 50K (31 miles). My hiking fitness was better than it's ever been for that hike. I felt like I could have easily done the hike just two weeks after the ultramarathon if I had needed to.
You are a lot younger than I am and likely to recover more quickly than 57 year-old me. You already have done several half marathons, you run regularly, and you are planning to run the marathon at less than a breakneck pace. These things lead me to believe you should be able to take on a long hike two weeks after your marathon.
By the way, I have found that doing some of your running on hills (they don't need to be steep hills) is great preparation for both running events and for backpacking.
Just to add one comment - if you "hit the wall" during the marathon, pushing on very hard seems to lengthen recovery time. There were two marathons where I recall hitting the wall (once at mile 22 and another time around mile 24) and I pushed on as hard as I could. Recovery on those occasions much much longer than when I have finished strong. For a first marathon when the goal is simply to finish and with a long hike on the horizon shortly after, I'd say very conservative pacing, good fueling, and backing off if you hit the wall rather than pushing hard would be good steps to mitigate risk.
StealthHikerBoy
09-22-2016, 12:39
My experience is running training helps a ton with hiking fitness, but it doesn't work the other way around. I get back from a long hike and it takes me weeks to feel like a runner again.
Regarding the marathon, recovery all depends on what kind of shape you are in and how hard you push it. To be honest, most people don't even run marathons completely -- I'd say at least 75% of finishers walk substantial portions of it. If that is you, I don't think it would be all that hard to recover from it.
If you are truly going to run the whole thing and push yourself hard, that usually means a world of pain from the 20 mile mark onward. I'd say it will take you a month or more to feel right after that. I once heard that it takes a day to recover for every hard mile of effort you put forth in a race, and that seems to be about right in my experience.
I did a section hike in the southern Appalachians this May four weeks after having run in a 50K (31 miles). My hiking fitness was better than it's ever been for that hike...By the way, I have found that doing some of your running on hills (they don't need to be steep hills) is great preparation for both running events and for backpacking.
Excellent advice. My wife and I are training for a 50 mile ultra on February 11th with a planned NOBO start on March 8. We have promised each other we will be hyper-attentive to any incipient injury and we're looking forward to starting our hike with a high level of fitness.
All of the warnings about injury are legitimate, but starting out with a low level of fitness causes a very high number of attempts to fail also. Risk vs reward...
Givens: 1)untested at full marathon length
2)untested as to full marathon recovery time
3)desires to complete full marathon; will be in the company of others who will do what/create what kind of atmosphere for her if she is willing to take the full marathon in context of upcoming in two wks 2200 mile backpack of AT?
4)untested BACKPACKER(not just a hiker) desiring to complete first LD hike, an AT thru-hike, not just a hike but a 2200 mile multi month day after day after day wk after wk after wk epic backpacking event
I think you have to go into the full marathon being willing to make an executive on the fly decision to prioritize completing the full marathon possibly at the risk of injury, completing it but not hurting yourself physically, or prioritizing an anticipated AT thru-hike. Take it as it comes. Observe, listen, and adapt. You seem bright and strong enough to be able to make those decisions for yourself. You seem driven too. When putting all this together with your emotional, mental and physical strength on you full marathon it pays huge dividends on the thru-hike.
Since you're from Cheese Steak City and you're doing your full marathon in PA I would like to see you start your flip flop possibly at DWG rather than Pawling NY. Starting at Pawling gives you about 150 miles before the elevation and harder states of the AT begin in earnest but if you start at DWG it's overall easier with the mindset going in you're working your way into hiking form and then thru-hiking/LD backpacking condition. Be mindful not going out too hard, too fast, and too strenuous only two wks post full marathon.
http://www.postholer.com/elevation/Appalachian-Trail/3
All of the warnings about injury are legitimate, but starting out with a low level of fitness causes a very high number of attempts to fail also. Risk vs reward...
Of course, you can always just hike yourself into shape. That's what I do before all of my long- and medium-distance hikes.
Of course, you can always just hike yourself into shape. That's what I do before all of my long- and medium-distance hikes.
Works great if you live in an area with terrain conducive to that approach. I don't...
Works great if you live in an area with terrain conducive to that approach. I don't...
Get a gym membership, and there are a bunch of workouts you can do. The best, IMO, is to walk uphill on the treadmill with your full pack. You'll get strange looks, but it's a fantastic cardio workout and will build up the appropriate leg muscles better than running will. Stepmills--the one that looks like a small escalator--are great, too (I'm not sold on those other climbing machines where you just kind of pedal up and down). Meanwhile, even walking on flat ground with a full pack will help to toughen your feet and work your leg muscles if you do some distance.
Hiking is best, but I'd bet you can get into pretty good shape for the AT without doing any running.
Comprehensive core workouts are great. Ed Viesturs workout is posted online and is designed to prepare him for mountaineering. It's an excellent piece to the puzzle of preparing for a successful hike.
kara1702
09-22-2016, 17:03
This is helpful! I had only decided Pawling because it was listed as a possible flip route on the appalachiantrail.org website. I should look more into deciding the starting point. I know I've got to be careful if the flip is so close to home that I don't get tempted to stay too long in my comfy bed and nice warm shower :P Sounds like my friend (also in Philly) and I should make the agreement now that we don't even try to come back home during the flip. Also, I haven't yet looked into transportation from home to the start point.
kara1702
09-22-2016, 17:04
Givens: 1)untested at full marathon length
2)untested as to full marathon recovery time
3)desires to complete full marathon; will be in the company of others who will do what/create what kind of atmosphere for her if she is willing to take the full marathon in context of upcoming in two wks 2200 mile backpack of AT?
4)untested BACKPACKER(not just a hiker) desiring to complete first LD hike, an AT thru-hike, not just a hike but a 2200 mile multi month day after day after day wk after wk after wk epic backpacking event
I think you have to go into the full marathon being willing to make an executive on the fly decision to prioritize completing the full marathon possibly at the risk of injury, completing it but not hurting yourself physically, or prioritizing an anticipated AT thru-hike. Take it as it comes. Observe, listen, and adapt. You seem bright and strong enough to be able to make those decisions for yourself. You seem driven too. When putting all this together with your emotional, mental and physical strength on you full marathon it pays huge dividends on the thru-hike.
Since you're from Cheese Steak City and you're doing your full marathon in PA I would like to see you start your flip flop possibly at DWG rather than Pawling NY. Starting at Pawling gives you about 150 miles before the elevation and harder states of the AT begin in earnest but if you start at DWG it's overall easier with the mindset going in you're working your way into hiking form and then thru-hiking/LD backpacking condition. Be mindful not going out too hard, too fast, and too strenuous only two wks post full marathon.
http://www.postholer.com/elevation/Appalachian-Trail/3
This is helpful! I had only decided Pawling because it was listed as a possible flip route on the appalachiantrail.org website. I should look more into deciding the starting point. I know I've got to be careful if the flip is so close to home that I don't get tempted to stay too long in my comfy bed and nice warm shower :P Sounds like my friend (also in Philly) and I should make the agreement now that we don't even try to come back home during the flip. Also, I haven't yet looked into transportation from home to the start point.
Returning home for a break mid hike is tricky... I did so on the pct last year, went back on trail for two weeks and then ended the hike and returned home for a bunch of reasons that wouldn't have arisen had I not visited. Of course everyone is different.
Kara, you sound like some of us that want epicness in what we do. You sound like me in that I want to finish what I start. It hurts me mentally to quit. I hold myself to a high standard of completion while somehow finding a way to "chunk it down" and enjoy it. Believe me a thru-hike is more mental and emotional than physical.
Here's another scenario to consider that would serve many AT thru-hikers well who are untested inexperienced with long distance(LD) hiking of the 2200 mile magnitude. Don't initially plan for a thru-hike. What, say me as a LD hiker/thru-hiker? Plan on an epic LD section hike of the AT. 7-9 out of every 10 self confessing AT thru-hikers wind up doing section hikes anyway. PLAN on an EPIC hike defined as you define epicness! There should be no shame to your sense of commitment, epicness, and pride doing say 1/2 of the AT or 1100 mile hike of the AT just as you first completed several half marathons with no less sense of commitment, epicness, or pride. Just as in your completing of half marathons epicness and a sense of fulfillment in backpacking does not have to be defined by going the fastest, with the lightest wt hauled, OR THE LONGEST DISTANCE! You defined your epicness in marathons as far as what length of marathon you completed, who you went with, your attitude, and the atmosphere you brought to the party. YOU DEFINE YOUR HIKE! YOU OWN IT! It's just something to consider. If at some pt you recognize the LD trail life of the multi month multi state magnitude is for you do the thru-hike. Sounds like you are capable. That is what you should go for - YOUR OWN HIKE - YOUR OWN DESTINY - YOUR OWN EPICNESS AS DEFINED BY YOU.
Now, how does that scenario play into your full marathon?
Also, I haven't yet looked into transportation from home to the start point.
In terms of transport options, you certainly picked a good point to start from - if you are in Philly, you can get Amtrak (or possibly NJ Transit) trains to NY City. Then the Metro-North lines run out of the city and there is actually a stop (only certain days/times) right ON the trail just outside Pawling (but if not I believe it's only a couple miles from Pawling station to the trail).
The only other thing would be a quick transfer from Penn to Grand Central in the city, but there are plenty of ways to get around NY City without a car!
Then for the second part, getting back to NY City from anywhere is bound to be one of the easier destinations, repeat the Metro North ride and start hiking the other way.
cliffordbarnabus
09-22-2016, 22:10
i was a peace corps volunteer in vanuatu. i won a trip to do a marathon in new caledonia. my first. sub 3 hrs. sweet!
i took my bike with me as checked luggage. the NEXT day i began a 1000 mile bike tour of new caledonia.
then back to vanuatu and volunteering!
just listen to the body. it is wise beyond WB fools, esp cliffordbarnabus!
I would HIGHLY recommend going into marathon training with a strong base and then following an established training plan which should include cut back weeks and not ramping up mileage too quickly. This is the most effective way to stay injury free. I would not recommend substituting cross training for running (unless necessary like in case of injury). The way to prepare for running is to run. Mixing in hikes and hills will help for backpacking.
There is an extremely good chance that you will experience DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) after the race. This is ok! Get some rest and do some light activity to help the body start the healing process.
When you do get on the trail start off slowly. While your cardiovascular fitness may be there, your body isn't, and the stresses on your muscles, tendons, and ligaments on climbs and descents will take some time to adapt to.
Have fun through it all. Running and hiking are both great. It is great that you have this opportunity.
CarlZ993
09-24-2016, 22:15
From a pure statistical standpoint, you are much more likely to successfully complete a marathon (I've started & finished 13) than completing an AT hike (~75% failure rate). Personally, I've felt like crap after I've finished a marathon for quite a while afterward (whether I was in my 20 or up until I was in my 50s... have tried one in my 60s yet). When I finished my AT hike, my legs felt like crap and could barely run.
Many marathons have a 1/2 marathon option. Much shorter recovery time. Run that & then try your AT thru-hike.
Regardless of whether or not you attempt your marathon, get some serious pack-time before you start the AT. The more the better. Make sure you kit works for you.