View Full Version : Wingfoot's Trail guide?
Does anyone know if Wingfoot is still making AT guides? And if so, when will this year's be ready and how to get one?
gsingjane
01-11-2006, 20:15
Go to his website, trailplace.com. As I understand it, the guides just arrived from the printer and are ready for shipping now. You order one by sending him your check (get the address and amount from the site).
Jane in CT
Jack Tarlin
01-11-2006, 20:16
It should be out any day now, unless it's been delayed. According to his website it was supposed to have arrived from the printer today (11 January).
I am sure he will be glad to sell you one.
http://trailplace.com/portal/index.php
or you go here and get IMHO a better handbook:
http://www.aldha.org/
Even though I've been an ALDHA Companion field editor, I've always liked Wingfoot's book better. And then, once he used the databook mileages, it made it even better than before.
If I'm not mistaken, I think the Companion is going to take a similar approach and this years guide should be the best ever.
When you buy the Companion, you not only help ALDHA, but the ATC and the trail. When you buy WF's, well....
Jack Tarlin
01-11-2006, 20:43
The 2006 Companion should be ready by the end of this month, and perhaps sooner. The chief editor told me today she'd write me when it was available for ordering; as soon as I know more, I'll let you guys know. In the meantime, the 2005 Edition can be perused at www.aldha.org
Thanks for the very quick responses! I will definitely check into the ALDHA Companion too before I buy. Seriously now, wasn't expecting such quick responses! :clap :banana :sun :banana :clap
mattydt20
01-11-2006, 21:20
What does Wingfoot provide in his guide that aren't provided in the data book or companion?
Lone Wolf
01-11-2006, 21:23
A combo of both.
TJ aka Teej
01-11-2006, 21:30
What does Wingfoot provide in his guide that aren't provided in the data book or companion?
Self authored self praise.
Lone Wolf
01-11-2006, 21:33
Self authored self praise.
... and a combo of both guides. Give credit where credit is due. Don't be a hater.
I used both guides. All things being equal I would rather see my $$$ go back into the trail then somebody's pocket. :-?
TJ aka Teej
01-11-2006, 21:41
... and a combo of both guides.
Yes, yes, and a good deal of DataBook and Companion content too.
I used both guides. All things being equal I would rather see my $$$ go back into the trail then somebody's pocket. :-?
Wingfoot lives in near poverty because of his dedication to the trail. He is not always the wisest advocate, but no one I know has devoted more of his life to the trail. And no one I know has done more good for the trail over the decades than Wingfoot.
max patch
01-11-2006, 22:39
Yes, yes, and a good deal of DataBook and Companion content too.
C'mon TJ...Did the The Thru Hikers Handbook copy the Companion or did the Companion copy the Handbook? I think you know the answer.
Folks - why the angst towards Wingfoot and his book? How old are you - not chronolologically, but mentally? Jesus.
Give it up -- such unattractive vindictiveness is amazing and totally unnecessary. If you don't like someone or what they do -- why do you think others give a rat's ass? Live your own life - buy your own book - hike your own hike. Quit with the negativity.
Treat others as you want to be treated. Jealousy or pettiness is so unattractive and an energy vampire. :( Sue
i give wing foots book 2 thumbs up,i never hit the trail without it:cool: neo
C'mon TJ...Did the The Thru Hikers Handbook copy the Companion or did the Companion copy the Handbook? I think you know the answer.
A long story, I think the short version goes like this,
WF took over the Philosophers Guide and published it through the ATC. Broke from them when he wasn't getting enough money or recognition. ATC wanted to publish their own guide, which makes perfect sense, and ALDHA took over. Since most guides are just facts, basically anyone can write one without compromising copyrights, but WF saw fit to sue the ATC. ATC settled. Sometime after suing the ATC, WF started incorporating the ATC's databook data.
A long story, I think the short version goes like this,
WF took over the Philosophers Guide and published it through the ATC. Broke from them when he wasn't getting enough money or recognition. ATC wanted to publish their own guide, which makes perfect sense, and ALDHA took over. Since most guides are just facts, basically anyone can write one without compromising copyrights, but WF saw fit to sue the ATC. ATC settled. Sometime after suing the ATC, WF started incorporating the ATC's databook data.
Wingfoot was upset that everyone was getting paid at Harpers Ferry, except him. Though he lives cheaply he needed some income. Anyway, that's the story he told me once.
I'm not sure there ever was a law suit. I simply don't know. Maybe someone else does. But I suspect there wasn't. Certainly there was a discussion of legal matters, out of which came permission for Wingfoot to use the data book information.
The recent copies of Wingfoot's guide that I've seen includes a sentence or two thanking ATC for granting him permission toi use ATC's trail data. Aside from Wingfoot's characteristic testiness, I don't detect any particular animosity on his website against ATC, though I don't visit as much as I used to.
Both books contain occasional errors. But I agree with Lone Wolf. Wingfoot's guide has more useful information than the Companion.
Weary
saimyoji
01-12-2006, 00:18
Folks - why the angst towards Wingfoot and his book? How old are you - not chronolologically, but mentally? Jesus.
Give it up -- such unattractive vindictiveness is amazing and totally unnecessary. If you don't like someone or what they do -- why do you think others give a rat's ass? Live your own life - buy your own book - hike your own hike. Quit with the negativity.
Treat others as you want to be treated. Jealousy or pettiness is so unattractive and an energy vampire. :( Sue
As you are a relative newb, you'll find that many of the threads here on WB are ripe with negativity, insults, personal attack and a generally poor attitude towards other posters. Note that I said posters, not hikers. Participating here on WB makes you a poster (internegator??) not a hiker. When you meet the hikers, I think you'll find they are different from their poster personas.
Yes, yes, its all petty and vindictive and childish, and all in good fun (till someone gets their eye poked out).
If you really want to see what people here think about WF, do a search through the threads. I think you'll find that in the end, RE: WF's book, most people give him credit for a valuable hiking tool, regardless of his personal opinions and the way he runs his website.
As you said, HYOH. :welcome
smokymtnsteve
01-12-2006, 00:24
wingfoot has a long history of being an oppourtunist.
totempole99
01-12-2006, 00:25
Folks - why the angst towards Wingfoot and his book? How old are you - not chronolologically, but mentally? Jesus.
Give it up -- such unattractive vindictiveness is amazing and totally unnecessary. If you don't like someone or what they do -- why do you think others give a rat's ass? Live your own life - buy your own book - hike your own hike. Quit with the negativity.
Treat others as you want to be treated. Jealousy or pettiness is so unattractive and an energy vampire. :( Sue
My sentiments exactly.
Ordered Wingfoots guide today.
Wouldn't do the trail without it.
Has there been some sort of falling out between Wingfoot and the community?
Have ALDHA's Companion. Good, But I hate spiral binding (evil) and "long" format.
Nightwalker
01-12-2006, 01:23
Self authored self praise.
Here we freakin' go again. I think I'm just gonna change my name to Dan Doyle!
:-?
Self authored self praise.
Actually, he credits those that help with the info, same as the Companion. I'm in the '98 edition! ;)
The way I look at it, ALDHA and the ATC should be making the best guide available. If they have to make a book that mirrors WF's current format, so be it.
wingfoot has a long history of being an oppourtunist.
Well, if it was opportunities for personal profit, he's been totally in effective, based on my observations.
He has seized many opportunities for helping the trail and the trail community with some success. I can think of only one chance to improve the trail that he has missed. He never actively got behind our Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust.
All those who want to prove how wrong Wingfoot can be are welcome to send us donations. We've bought one mountain and the slopes of a second. Think what we could do with $11 million for instance. I heard this week that 24,000 acres surrounding the high peaks where the wind turbines are planned is available for that price.
Just open www.matlt.org
Weary
in 2000, wingfoot kept my money and never sent my book, due to delay's at the printer. i never got my book or my money after repeated attempts during and aflter my hike. eventually i was called a liar and told that i etiher didn't order a book or i was given my money back, due to the fact that it had all been taken care of. i've got a memory like a fu***n' elephant, and i ain't no liar. same thing happened to S.T.R. in 2000 as well. that was 6 years ago so maybe things have changed, bud i'd lay my money on the companion.
Lone Wolf
01-12-2006, 09:22
Gypsy got her Handbook in November of 2000 after she was done hiking for the year.
I can totally understand the need to explain the character behind each publisher of the 2 different types of thru-hiking books discussed here. I thank everyone, on both sides of the fence and those in the middle, for their time spent posting and for the readily available information.
Now, I don't want this thread to get out of control and have it turn into a who's-who. That accomplishes nothing but negative things in the long run. I, and anyone else who might have wanted to know the answer to my question, now have 2 possible avenues to look to for a hiking companion/databook, and the links needed to order which we choose.
With that said, could the moderator's lock this thread, as it has already served it's original purpose? Thanks!
TJ aka Teej
01-12-2006, 10:24
With that said, could the moderator's lock this thread, as it has already served it's original purpose? Thanks!
Excellent suggestion, Tudor. You are wise beyond your years.
QHShowoman
01-12-2006, 10:36
Folks - why the angst towards Wingfoot and his book?
I don't know Wingfoot, or have his book, or really care what he does/doesn't do for the trail but .... as a relative newbie to the world of AT thru-hiking (but not the world of internet discussion forums!), I used to participate on his message board and got quickly frustrated with the way he manages (or "controls") it. I recognize that he's the owner of that board and can do as he pleases, but anytime someone offered an opinion that differed from his "gospel" of thru-hiking, he would swoop in and close the thread with a post that basically said his way was the right way and there'd be no more discussion on the issue. So much for a "discussion" board ... so, if that qualifies as "angst" so be it, but it sure doesn't stem from a position of jealousy.
TJ aka Teej
01-12-2006, 10:40
anytime someone offered an opinion that differed from his "gospel" of thru-hiking, he would swoop in and close the thread with a post that basically said his way was the right way and there'd be no more discussion on the issue.
His minions try to do that on other boards too. Only praise is allowed, any facts or opinions to the contrary will be shouted down.
The Desperado
01-12-2006, 11:32
It's a great tool ! I dont know the man, and could care less about all the "side issues". I have been on the a/t many, many years and it's the book I see most frequently-- by far, this guy must be doing something right. I have a veeery old copy and still use it. I think Saimyoji hit the old nail on the head!
Youngblood
01-12-2006, 13:03
Gypsy got her Handbook in November of 2000 after she was done hiking for the year.Same here, but it was two copies for me... wanted the home folks to have the same info I did if something came up-- towns, phone numbers, post offices, etc.
longshank
01-12-2006, 13:19
in 2000, wingfoot kept my money and never sent my book, due to delay's at the printer. i never got my book or my money after repeated attempts during and aflter my hike. eventually i was called a liar and told that i etiher didn't order a book or i was given my money back, due to the fact that it had all been taken care of. i've got a memory like a fu***n' elephant, and i ain't no liar. same thing happened to S.T.R. in 2000 as well. that was 6 years ago so maybe things have changed, bud i'd lay my money on the companion.
You can get it on amazon.com in about a week.
QHShowoman
01-12-2006, 13:35
Longshank: Can you post a link because all I see on Amazon are older versions of it carried by re-seller's ... I always thought if you wanted the newest version, you had to purchase it directly from Wingfoot's site.
Footslogger
01-12-2006, 13:42
... I always thought if you wanted the newest version, you had to purchase it directly from Wingfoot's site.
=========================================
Pretty sure that's still the case. Current issue is available only by direct order from the website.
'Slogger
WF's Book: Well written, WF acts as your friendly hiking companion along the trip. includes much of the databook info. I too like the non-spiral format as I can rip out the pages. Only one editor, though, so the info tends to not be as updated
ATC/ALDHA Book: More utlitarian that the WF book. Many editors in the field, tends to be updated and more current. Does not currently have the databook type info so may not be as handy as the WF book. I don't like the spiral format.
Overall: The WF book is probably the better witten of the two. The ALDHA book seems to be more current. If the ALDHA/ATC book includes the databook type info as Sly suggested, it will probably be the more useful book overall.
The ATC/ALDHA book does directly benefit the ATC. That may or may not be a selling point.
Anyway, that's my .02 worth. Trying to keep a nuetral overview.
(And in a slightly not-so-nuetral way: I'd buy the ATC/ALDHA companion because I know many of the editors, been involved with ALDHA, and it supports the ATC. Nothing to do with WF. When I met him in 1998, he was very personable. Have not dealt with WF online in years, so I can not speak firsthand of his current online persona)
longshank
01-12-2006, 13:49
Longshank: Can you post a link because all I see on Amazon are older versions of it carried by re-seller's ... I always thought if you wanted the newest version, you had to purchase it directly from Wingfoot's site.
I've read that the updates are not vast and sweeping changes, generally speaking, and I think I would rather have a year-old version than risk going without one at all.
trippclark
01-12-2006, 13:54
Prior to seeing this thread, I went to Wingfoot's site earlier this week with the intention of ordering his guide. Personally, I prefer the format of his handbook over the Companion. I bought and have been using the 2003 handbook but figured that the info is getting a bit old and it was time for an upgrade (as a section hiker that, at best gets in 100 - 150 miles each year, I can't justify a new guide every year).
What shocked me about the Handbook is that Wingfoot is charging $6 for shipping on ONE BOOK! That seemed high to me. Checking actual mailing cost for the book (using my 2003 handbook for checking weight), it comes to $2.07 for First Class or $1.59 for media mail. Even at $1 for the envelope, that is still a pretty stiff premium for shipping.
I guess I'll wait and buy my copy from one of the outfitters along the trail this spring.
QHShowoman
01-12-2006, 14:25
I've read that the updates are not vast and sweeping changes, generally speaking, and I think I would rather have a year-old version than risk going without one at all.
That's great for you, although that wasn't really my question. The most current handbook I could find on Amazon was 2002 ... there was a copy available from a re-seller (not amazon directly) for $184. Hopefully, that price was in error. I'd take a year old version than go without as well, but they don't seem plentifully available on Amazon.
totempole99
01-12-2006, 14:36
Longshank: Can you post a link because all I see on Amazon are older versions of it carried by re-seller's ... I always thought if you wanted the newest version, you had to purchase it directly from Wingfoot's site.
He says on his site, and I quote, "The only place you will able to get a copy will be here on Trailplace until April 1 or so."
WF currently ONLY sells his book at his site. If you want my 2000 copy in perfect shape (received in November 2000) I'll let it go for $183. I'll even throw in free shipping. :D
trippclark
01-12-2006, 14:38
He says on his site, and I quote, "The only place you will able to get a copy will be here on Trailplace until April 1 or so."
I got a reply from WF yesterday when I asked about buying from an outfitter. He said:
"We will start shipping to outfitters later this spring. For now, we will sell only through the website to give us a chance to sell as many books as possible. We need to make a profit, too, so that we can continue our work from year to year, and the book is our only product, unlike outfitters that carry many products needed by hikers."
QHShowoman
01-12-2006, 14:39
WF currently ONLY sells his book at his site. If you want my 2000 copy in perfect shape (received in November 2000) I'll let it go for $183. I'll even throw in free shipping. :D
You know, what I like best about you is your generosity.
(I thought he only sold them on his site ... but I was just curious if Longshank found a better alternative. Guess not ...)
longshank
01-12-2006, 15:43
That's great for you, although that wasn't really my question. The most current handbook I could find on Amazon was 2002 ... there was a copy available from a re-seller (not amazon directly) for $184. Hopefully, that price was in error. I'd take a year old version than go without as well, but they don't seem plentifully available on Amazon.
All I'm saying is that if not getting your book in time is an issue, go with an earlier edidtion. Based on what I've read here, I'm going to order the 06 ed. for my 07 thru.
I found several errors between Tray and Dicks Creek Gap this fall. Water and camp area errors/mileage errors. But I still use the book!
All I'm saying is that if not getting your book in time is an issue, go with an earlier edidtion. Based on what I've read here, I'm going to order the 06 ed. for my 07 thru.
Wingfoot was in some financial difficulty several years ago, as a result one year his guide was promised, but not published.
It's my understanding that the problem has been resolved. I haven't heard any major problems in recent years.
You can get it on amazon.com in about a week.
i didn't go without. i just went without wingfoot's book.
Jack Tarlin
01-12-2006, 18:15
You're neglecting to mention that he ships the book out Priority Mail. Last year, I got my copy no more than two days after he got my check. Parcel post mail can take seven to ten days; most folks are happy to pay a bit extra for shipping if it means the get the book immediately.
trippclark
01-12-2006, 18:21
You're neglecting to mention that he ships the book out Priority Mail. Last year, I got my copy no more than two days after he got my check. Parcel post mail can take seven to ten days; most folks are happy to pay a bit extra for shipping if it means the get the book immediately.
You are right Jack, and Dan clarified that. Priority mail is $4.05, which is much closer to what he charges ($6). I still think that I'll wait and buy it at face value from one of the outfitters on the trail. It is not worth the $6 premium to have it delivered to my door. I like to support the outfitters when I can anyway.
By the way, Jack, I enjoyed listening to the trailcast interview. Fun stuff.
Pacific Tortuga
01-12-2006, 21:42
The reason I understand Wingfoot was the editor, was in Model T's first book. By T' s recolection,Wingfoot pulled out of a thru- hike becacuse he was asked by the Philosophy's editor, if he would consider taking over? I use his guide with all the books I read to help give a clearer picture of the trail for a future thru-hike and I agree with his politics on and off the trail. For the years I have logged on his site, he has showed he will defend the letter of the law the congress voted to create, and the integrity of the scenic trail,why does that seem to upset so many?
I wish there was more information and publicity about the "new" companion. IMO they are losing sales. Doesn't matter, Wf will do his book as long as there is a Wf ( I've got 2to1 odds on a 2cent bet);) The ATC will outlast him. Nobody will suffer w/o his book, even though it is good. I'd like to see him back out on the trail, maybe get one of those circle deals going w/ Warren. Jack and Wolf could be in the circle too!:jump We could do a DVD!!!:D
WF must have stock in the USPS...
Instead of using (free) PM supplies, one could buy #2 padded envelopes on Ebay, send 1st class and still end up saving the buyer $1.25 that goes directly to the PS for the privilege of PM.
I wish there was more information and publicity about the "new" companion.
Won't be long now. Many changes in Erwin and to the town map. I hope they included them all, along with the mileage data.
I picked up the 2005 ed. of WF's book for $15 from my local outfitter yesterday. Only 1 year behind and I got it immedietly. For me it is worth not getting the most current 2006 ed. than having to deal with personal checks, mail, waiting, etc. Also if you bother to register for WF's site you can just look up the list of changes between the 05 and 06 editions (seems that there were only 2 updates total).
tommy
The reason I understand Wingfoot was the editor, was in Model T's first book. By T' s recolection,Wingfoot pulled out of a thru- hike becacuse he was asked by the Philosophy's editor, if he would consider taking over? I use his guide with all the books I read to help give a clearer picture of the trail for a future thru-hike and I agree with his politics on and off the trail. For the years I have logged on his site, he has showed he will defend the letter of the law the congress voted to create, and the integrity of the scenic trail,why does that seem to upset so many?
the belittlement of people that don't think as wingfoot does is discriminatory. that, and, through e-mail, he told me that all blueblazers are painty waists (exact words). well, i like blue blaze trails, and most blueblazers, and being called a painty waist kind of pissed me off.
I found several errors between Tray and Dicks Creek Gap this fall. Water and camp area errors/mileage errors. But I still use the book!
No matter which book you use, take the time to note what the errors are and send the information along to the editors. Unless we, the users, let the editors know about the mistakes, the same incorrect information is going to get published again and again.
i faithfully use the A.T.DATA book & town guides from the ALDHA "THRU-HIKERS' Handbook.
i found numerous updates were needed in WINGFOOTS book last year from my fellow hikers that i was with for 3 weeks.
good luck w/ yer hike!:D
Nightwalker
01-14-2006, 16:09
guess I'll wait and buy my copy from one of the outfitters along the trail this spring.
Mountain Crossings at WalsiYi will have tons of 'em.
tiamalle
01-14-2006, 21:19
You know, what I like best about you is your generosity.
(I thought he only sold them on his site ... but I was just curious if Longshank found a better alternative. Guess not ...)Showoman
You ought to have Mowgie throw in some Green Stamps on this sale:banana
TJ aka Teej
01-15-2006, 01:00
I wish there was more information and publicity about the "new" companion. IMO they are losing sales.
2005 sales were up 450 copies over 2004 according to the latest ALDHA newsletter. The Companion was created by AT hikers asking other AT hikers what they wanted in a Trail Guide. The shape and spiral binding were what hikers wanted. Each year since the Companion has changed to reflect the input received by the members of the AT community. The 2006 edition will include hundreds of updates from volunteer field editors who hike their sections and visit their service providers every year. Nothing beats first hand information! New features, like mileage and trail data that many have asked for, continue the tradition of giving hikers what they want in an AT guide book.
Yes! you hear it all the time, love that spiral binding and the bigger size is just perfect for keeping in a zip-lock. Does the Companion recieve any play in the ATC Journeys? Positive changes should be marketed, not be kept secret. No, I'm being silly- marketing never brings in more sales. nevermind:o
TJ aka Teej
01-15-2006, 13:38
Does the Companion recieve any play in the ATC Journeys?
I'm not sure the Trail gets much play in the shiny new fanzine. The Companion would fit nicely into a saddlebag, though.
Pacific Tortuga
01-15-2006, 16:59
the belittlement of people that don't think as wingfoot does is discriminatory. that, and, through e-mail, he told me that all blueblazers are painty waists (exact words). well, i like blue blaze trails, and most blueblazers, and being called a painty waist kind of pissed me off.
I thought this thread was about his hand book but it sounds like you might have deeper issues about WF, go ahead and vent if it makes you happy. We respond to what we know to believe is the truth,no one likes or sits still, after being called a liar but a painty waste? You know who you are, opinions are like a holes, everyone has one.
DMA, 2000
01-15-2006, 17:36
I liked using the Companion and Data Book in concert. The best part is the convenience, as the Data Book fits nicely in your pocket (and I'd refer to it many times each day), and I could keep the Companion in my pack as a reference when needed.
Fitting the entire Wingfoot guide in your pocket for frequent reference is a bit less convenient.
A very small detail, I know, but I was happy with the arrangement.
Barnes and Nobles website says they will have wf 2006 guide by Jan. 28 for $14.35.
I'm not sure the Trail gets much play in the shiny new fanzine.
That was worth a laugh!:D
I thought this thread was about his hand book but it sounds like you might have deeper issues about WF, go ahead and vent if it makes you happy. We respond to what we know to believe is the truth,no one likes or sits still, after being called a liar but a painty waste? You know who you are, opinions are like a holes, everyone has one.
just answering you question there hot rod.
I thought this thread was about his hand book but it sounds like you might have deeper issues about WF, go ahead and vent if it makes you happy.
potkettleblack
And your glowing apprassial of WF, his website, his commitment, and his politics was about the HB?
Someone else gave their opinion and used WF's words, bias and insults against him.
Seems fair to me...
Some think fair is a one way street. Tell it like it is Sly:clap
If I may.. could I ask what the differences are between the handbook and the companion? are both equally good sources of info on the trail or does one have an advanantage over the other or hiking the AT?
I don't care about your oppinions on wingfoot so please just focus on the two products (thru hikers hand book and the Companion) in answering this post!
DavidNH
Lone Wolf
01-16-2006, 18:38
Both are equally good.
RITBlake
01-16-2006, 18:42
Wingfoots book is still the best thing going. Wouldn't step foot on the AT without it. Mike carried the databook and found it incredibly useless.
TJ aka Teej
01-16-2006, 18:51
Mike carried the databook and found it incredibly useless.
And yet, until Wingfoot copied the DataBook and included it in his Handbook, many considered a guide written by an ex-hiker collecting info via the telephone useless.
And yet, until Wingfoot copied the DataBook and included it in his Handbook, many considered a guide written by an ex-hiker collecting info via the telephone useless.
I donno Teej. I've been on these bulletin boards a long time, and I have never seen anyone refer to WF's guide as "useless" - unless they had an agenda of some kind. Lets face it. Both the ALDHA Companion and WF's book are useful.
As an hiker and ALDHA member, I appreciate your efforts to gather data on behalf of ALDHA, but I think you do a disservice to both yourself and ALDHA when you take shots at Dan like this.
RITBlake
01-16-2006, 19:15
And yet, until Wingfoot copied the DataBook and included it in his Handbook, many considered a guide written by an ex-hiker collecting info via the telephone useless.
True. Just seems like the Wingfoot book had a lot more 'data' then the data book. For example if we hiked a 10 mile stretch, the databook might offer you 10 or 12 points of reference. In that same stretch the wingfoot book offered 20, maybe 25 points of reference. I was happy to carry the heavier wingfoot book, almost all Sobos did. I only saw the thru-hiker companion 2 or 3 times on the trail, usually carried by a section hiker.
TJ aka Teej
01-16-2006, 19:19
2005 sales were up 450 copies over 2004 according to the latest ALDHA newsletter.
Correction: Up 540 copies! And each state will now begin with a table that includes road crossings, cumulative mileages both nobo from Springer and sobo from Katahdin, mileages between lean-tos, road crossing info, water sources and shelter information. 20 of the town maps have been re-done and a few new ones added, and Rambunny has rewritten the intros to each state.
TJ aka Teej
01-16-2006, 19:21
As an hiker and ALDHA member, I appreciate your efforts to gather data on behalf of ALDHA,
Thank you.
edit: With so many hostels closing in Maine, my annual two week ALDHA trip might only take a weekend in '06...
RITBlake
01-16-2006, 19:22
I should mentin though from what I've heard from Miss Janet and others, the new Companion is new and improved. I will try and get my hands on one eventually,
TJ aka Teej
01-16-2006, 19:27
I only saw the thru-hiker companion 2 or 3 times on the trail,
That makes sense, as the Companion was originally meant more for planning, and the DataBook for carrying. In the old days, we'd tear the Philosopher's Guide apart, something I still see many hikers doing with guidebooks.
Nightwalker
01-17-2006, 04:43
Mike carried the databook and found it incredibly useless.
Lots of folks would disagree with you on that one. If I carryb only one book, it's definitely the data book.
RITBlake
01-17-2006, 12:02
Lots of folks would disagree with you on that one. If I carryb only one book, it's definitely the data book.
Really? Why? I'm genuinely curious because compared to the wingfoot book, the databook seemed so bare bones. Maybe if thats all you need,by I really appreciated the the more in depth content of the wingfoot.
Each book has it's good points, and places where it can do better. My suggestion is to look at each one before you buy. If you don't have a local outfitter, then perhaps you can hike to Neels Gap/Mountain Crossing and preview both of them there, assuming that you can go the first 30 miles without one or the other.
Really? Why? I'm genuinely curious because compared to the wingfoot book, the databook seemed so bare bones. Maybe if thats all you need,by I really appreciated the the more in depth content of the wingfoot.
I found it sufficient to hike the trail in 2000. All I needed to know was a) where are the shelters b) where is the water c) where are the road crossings and what basic services are available at each of them.
Lone Wolf
01-17-2006, 12:43
It seems todays hikers want and need info overload. They gotta have every detail about every mile and town. There is no discovery anymore with all the info available.
RITBlake
01-17-2006, 13:00
I found it sufficient to hike the trail in 2000. All I needed to know was a) where are the shelters b) where is the water c) where are the road crossings and what basic services are available at each of them.
I imagine it would be sufficient. When it came to things like water sources, the wingfoot gave many more options. I didn't like taking chances so with that I wanted the most information available. Wingfoot does give a nice breakdown of the towns and the services provided, I mean if you walk in to town knowing there is a burger king, are you really losing anything from the 'discovery' expeirence of the trail, probably not. I do think that the full shelter description and history given in the companion is overkill.
wingfoot lists more water sources
I carried pieces of both books when I last sectioned. I carried one or 2 states at a time with the balance being put in my bounce box. When I got to my bounce box I would tear out new states if I needed to and put the states that I had already hiked in the bounce box for safe keeping. The weight of both pieces weighed less that the total weight of either book in its entirety.
Panzer
topo maps show every feature, water, elevation gain/loss, mileage, shelters, capmsites (established, and places not so established with some creativity). what we really need is a topo map with town maps (of towns in that section) on the reverse side. if the town info was included on the map, i don't see any need for any book. much lighter, and all the info is laid out right there in front of you, together, and on a flat surface.
Nightwalker
01-17-2006, 18:03
Really? Why? I'm genuinely curious because compared to the wingfoot book, the databook seemed so bare bones. Maybe if thats all you need,by I really appreciated the the more in depth content of the wingfoot.
Precisely because it is so bare bones. It has what I need and nothing more.
topo maps show every feature, water, elevation gain/loss, mileage, shelters, capmsites (established, and places not so established with some creativity). what we really need is a topo map with town maps (of towns in that section) on the reverse side. if the town info was included on the map, i don't see any need for any book. much lighter, and all the info is laid out right there in front of you, together, and on a flat surface.
That would make the maps too big. The maps already have "stuff" on the reverse side.
Panzer
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2006, 18:18
Teej:
A few quick questions, since you're such an authority on Bruce's book:
1. When did you last thru-hike?
2. Most of your hiking these days seems to be in Maine. Please provide us with evidence from a recent edition of the Handbook that would leave you (or us) believing that the book was "useless", i.e. tell us about the mistakes, errors, and omissions in the Maine section of the Handbook.
In point of fact, it's been by far the most popular Trail guide for years, although the improvements in this year's "Thru-Hiker's Companion " may change this.
Fact is, Teej, you have a stick up your ass about Wingfoot, and it's been there for years. All because you got thrown off his website around half a decade ago.
You've been slamming Bruce and his book for years now, on any internet forum you can find....here, the at-l list for years, Trailjournals, you name it.
On this thread alone, you've bitched him out probably half a dozen times in recent days.
Get over it. You got tossed off a website. Deal with it.
Despite your cracks and snide cheapshots whenever Bruce's name is mentioned, fact is this is still the most popluar book amongst long-distance hikers on the A.T., and if you were actually one of these people yourself, you'd realize and admit this.
Tha Wookie
01-17-2006, 18:25
I used Wingy's book on my '01 thru. It's really a well-written book. Worthy of the price, and for me it was all I needed.
There's no reason to trash talk him (or any other hiker for that matter).
That would make the maps too big. The maps already have "stuff" on the reverse side.
Panzer
that stuff is usually useless to the long distance hiker. things you should already know. don't make the map bigger, just more useful.
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2006, 18:33
Lighten up, Wook.
Teej has been talking trash about Bruce since the moment he got here, it's an obsession with him. He was notorious for it on other forums, and then he brought his bitterness over here, all because he got thrown off of Trailplace.
It's tired and old.
He said the Handbook is "useless", Wook. How is asking him to justify his words trash talking? It was HE who was talking trash, for around the hundredth time. Only difference is that this time I'm asking him to back it up.
Skidsteer
01-17-2006, 19:34
Lighten up, Wook.
Teej has been talking trash about Bruce since the moment he got here, it's an obsession with him. He was notorious for it on other forums, and then he brought his bitterness over here, all because he got thrown off of Trailplace.
It's tired and old.
He said the Handbook is "useless", Wook. How is asking him to justify his words trash talking? It was HE who was talking trash, for around the hundredth time. Only difference is that this time I'm asking him to back it up.
Jack,
I may have read it wrong but I took Wookies' post to mean that people shouldn't trash Wingfoot, which is similar to your position. Did I miss it?
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2006, 19:39
"There's no need to trash him OR ANY OTHER HIKER." is what he said.
From this, I got the impression Wook thought I was a little rough on Teej.
I've got no problems with Teej, except perhaps his habit of introducing politics here every three minutes.
I think Teej does a lot of good here at Whiteblaze, especially when he provides info on Maine, which he knows extremely well. I think his presence on the editorial staff of the Thru-Hikers Companion will help make the 2006 Editionof that book the best one yet.
That being said, I think it's a pity he's so obsessed with Dan Bruce and his Handbook. This thread wasn't even two hours old when he felt the need to slam Wingfoot; so far he's made half a dozen similar comments. I simply don't see the need for it.
Skidsteer
01-17-2006, 19:43
"There's no need to trash him OR ANY OTHER HIKER." is what he said.
From this, I got the impression Wook thought I was a little rough on Teej.
I've got no problems with Teej, except perhaps his habit of introducing politics here every three minutes.
I think Teej does a lot of good here at Whiteblaze, especially when he provides info on Maine, which he knows extremely well. I think his presence on the editorial staff of the Thru-Hikers Companion will help make the 2006 Editionof that book the best one yet.
That being said, I think it's a pity he's so obsessed with Dan Bruce and his Handbook. This thread wasn't even two hours old when he felt the need to slam Wingfoot; so far he's made half a dozen similar comments. I simply don't see the need for it.
I agree, but I'm not sure from reading his post that Wookie was implying that you were trashing Teej. Possible, though. I guess Tha Wook will have to clarify if He feels it is warranted. I'm out.:D
that stuff is usually useless to the long distance hiker. things you should already know. don't make the map bigger, just more useful.
Well, a lot of the maps have more maps on the reverse side, elevation profiles, legends and maybe a small amount of stuff that would be "useless to the long distance hiker", but eliminating that stuff would give you only a small amount of additional space to put new stuff that someone else with a trail book would find useless.
Panzer
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2006, 22:33
Panzer is correct; most Trail maps are double-sided, which would leave little or no spare space for town information.
Also, the maps are designed and published by local Trail Clubs, and most of these folks probably don't want to get into providing town info on the maps as there would be inevitable arguments and disagreements over which places to include and which to omit. In some cases, trail maintainers and local club members actually own some of these hiker facilities, and in some circles it might not be seen as proper for the maps put out by these clubs to be seen listing (i.e. "endorsing") certain facilities, or omitting others. Lastly, the map sets for each particular section are re-done and revised every four or five years, so maps that had Town facilities and businesses printed on them would inevitably contain false or out-of-date information (like places that were no longer in business) and would also be incomplete as they wouldn't reflect new businesses either.
The great advantage to the standard Trail Guides is that they're constantly being up-dated and revised, with obsolete information hopefully removed, and new information added. This is especially true with the Thru-Hikers Companion, where each section of the Trail is re-vised every year by someone who either lives in that particular neck of the woods; is intimately familiar with the section, or has just finished hiking it.
In short, the standard guides contain an extraordinary ammount of useful information, which is why most thru-hikers elect to carry and use one or the other.
I just received to day my copy of the 2006 thru hikers handbook.
I have given a brief review so far and it looks like a wonderful resource. Got the milages and all the info and its well indexed with info on towns and services.
I wonder one thing..The 2006 ATC data book that I also bought..was that a waste of money since I have all the milages in the handbook? (at time I bought the data book I didn't know the handbook had all the milages!). Any advantage to carrying both? I don't see any..as it is all in the handbook.
Between the handbook and Jacks re-supply articles I have all I need now to map out my fat chance schedule for my thru! yippee!!! gonna get into this this weekend!
David
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 00:28
Nothing new, same old same old.
Jack. Your obsession with me is unhealthy. Have you really tracked and timed all my postings? That's sick, dude.
First, the 'useless' phrase was used by another hiker about another book. In the most simple of basic high school leval debate tricks I turned his phrase around. Sorry it was over your head, like much of the politics talk going on that you have "a stick up your ass" about, Jack. Now, then. The first, the very first, mention by me of HeWhoShallNotBeNamed came over six months (not as you claim, "the moment") after I came here. I have not started a thread about him since, and have let the vast majority of topics about him and his book pass by without comment. To correct more of your mistakes: I was never 'kicked off Trailplace', no matter what Dan has shared with you in those late night IM sessions. Dan Bruce did start an email effort to discredit me (in which Jack participated,) and he has a doctored email about me posted on his website. For some bizzare reason, Jack wants to bring up old news. So now, please, for the sake of this website - please no one take Jack's bait and respond to the topic he's trying to stir up. Email Jack off list. For info about the merits, and debate thereof, of WF's book, please have Jack email you the links to the old posts. And please, no matter how much Jack tries, let's keep the political stuff in the politics forum.
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 00:29
I wonder one thing..The 2006 ATC data book that I also bought..was that a waste of money since I have all the milages in the handbook?
Jack? Do I have your permission to respond?
Also,
I'm guessing that the paper that the maps are on is expensive paper and the paper that the trail guides are on is cheap paper. Combining the 2 onto the more expensive map paper would probably raise the cost of the final product. Hikers, being the cheapest people I know, would probably avoid this more expensive version.
Panzer
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 00:45
Respond all you wish, Teej, you don't need my permission to make an ass out of yourself. You do that fine on your own.
You ARE indeed obsessed with Bruce, Teej, and anyone who's been here awhile knows is.
Case in point:
Tudor starts this thread by asking if Wingfoot is still publishing his book and if it's coming out soon. That's all he wants to know. Not the history of the Handbook. Not Dan Bruce's biography. And not anyone's opinion of him.
You immediately, and I mean IMMEDIATELY start making snotty anti-Wingfoot remarks, ignoring Tudor's simple questions.
Shortly after that, Tudor suggests that he doesn't like the nasty turn the thread has taken (thanx to you), and that as the thread has served its original purpose, perhaps it should be closed.
And YOU of all people have the nerve to immediately write that you think this is a good idea! How magnanimous of you! First you hijack and ruin a thread, and then you agree that it's no longer serving its purpose, when it's you who got it off track in the first place with your bitterness and bile.
Of course, pretty soon, you're back to making more snotty comments, despite the fact that the guy who started the thread has announced that it's been hijacked, and despite the fact that you have agreed with him!
Jesus, Teej, enough all ready. You're still angry half a decade later about being thrown off a silly website!
Get over it and stop being such a mewling infant. If the worse thing that's happened to you in five years is getting tossed over a minor outdoor Internet site, istead of bitching so much, you should consider yourself a lucky man.
smokymtnsteve
01-18-2006, 01:02
letz talk about dat thar warren doyle fellar..didn't he walk the ENTIRE trail more than anybody else including ole wingdinger??
Teej, I'm shocked!:rolleyes:
Please guys lets try and keep on the subject here on this thread. It always seems that when ever the name Wingfoot is mentioned the same people have to get into a pissing contest with each other. If you want to do that then please take it to the other Wingfoot thread that you already ruined.
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 09:05
Tudor suggests that he doesn't like the nasty turn the thread has taken (thanx to you), and that as the thread has served its original purpose, perhaps it should be closed.
And YOU of all people have the nerve to immediately write that you think this is a good idea!
I was anticipating you joining the thread.
Lone Wolf
01-18-2006, 09:10
Let's put Warren Doyle's name in place of Wingfoot's and see who makes an ass out of themselves. See who trashes who.:D
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 09:15
The 2006 ATC data book that I also bought..was that a waste of money since I have all the milages in the handbook?
Dan Chazin's AT Databook, published by the ATC, deserves the support of the AT community. The reasons for doing so were discussed here a while back, in a thread I started. Search the media forum for Wingfoot and Databook. Let's not open that can of worms again by starting to post about it, please.
Well, a lot of the maps have more maps on the reverse side, elevation profiles, legends and maybe a small amount of stuff that would be "useless to the long distance hiker", but eliminating that stuff would give you only a small amount of additional space to put new stuff that someone else with a trail book would find useless.
Panzer
the thru-hiker's handbook 8oz
Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers' Companion 8oz
Appalachian Trail Data Book 2000 ed 2 1/2 oz
Appalachian Trail Conference waterproof map 1 3/4 oz heaviest in set
to get you through the next mail drop or two or three
as is now, with no modification, carrying a map+data book weighs half as much as either book. my point is: take said map, put said town data on said map, and you save over 6 oz.
You guys are hilarious...and quite entertaining I might add.
warren doyle
01-18-2006, 10:39
Interesting thread to read.
Lone Wolf (#111) - I admire your ability to say so much with so few words.
smokymtnsteve (#117) - Yes, I have walked the entire AT more than anyone else - 14 times (8 thrus; 6 section hikes). Ward Leonard is next with 10 traverses of the entire trail.
Dan Bruce (Sorry, I mean Warren Doyle).
....Yes, I have walked the entire AT more than anyone else - 14 times (8 thrus; 6 section hikes). Ward Leonard is next with 10 traverses of the entire trail.
Does anyone know how -- and what -- Ward is doing these days?
David-
Buying the Data book wasn't a waste of money. Yes Wingfoot's book has the data book basically included, as well as much other information. Take the Wingfoot (or sections of it) with you on your hike. Then, leave the data book at home. Family or friends can use it to track your progress, or understand what you're talking about when you call home. If they need to meet up with you on or near the trail, they can figure out how long it will take you to get somewhere. Also, you supported the ATC which is a GOOD thing.
I left an old version of the Wingfoot at home with my mom while I hiked and she loved having it. She would anticipate where I'd be next and knew what I was talking about when I called home. Made her feel a lot better about the whole thing.
I left an old version of the Wingfoot at home with my mom while I hiked and she loved having it. She would anticipate where I'd be next and knew what I was talking about when I called home. Made her feel a lot better about the whole thing.
Excellent idea! I forgotten I had done that myself. Dad loved being able to see where I was and what I was up to. Initially, the folks were apprehensive about the trip. Being able to follow along and participate on some level helped their fears quite a bit.
I gave them a 1996 copy, I used the (then current) 1998. Man..it is has been too long. :)
BTW: Earlier in this thread, posted what I think is a balanced look at the guidebooks (page 2, post #38). Long story short: they are both good. The companion is a bit more current, the handbook has one voice so it tends to be better written. In the end, it is not the guidebook that matters..it is the hiker.
Does anyone know how -- and what -- Ward is doing these days?
I haven't heard anything concrete in a long while. Hope he is doing as well as possible. I'd be interested too.
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 12:59
Actually, Wolf, you're quite wrong with your pithy coment above, and so is Warren.
For example, as recently as yesterday, Mr. Doyle's name came up on another thread; somebody wanted to know the cost of his "Institute" sessions.
I answered their question and provided them with the information they were looking for. Mr. Doyle himself posted that the information I provided was correct.
Did I use this opportunity to give my thoughts on Mr. Doyle, his Institute, his advice to prospective hikers, his behavior on the Trail, or anything else?
No, I didn't, and for good reason. That's not what the poster wanted to know, and whatever my feelings may or may not be about Doyle, it would have been inappropriate to have added these comments at this time......a guy had a simple question, and I answered it.
Another example: A few days ago another guy wanted the phone number of a hiker facility down south. Despite my fairly well-known feelings about the place in question, did I take the opportunity to share my feelings about the place, to tell him the history of the establishment, or to advise him to patronize another business?
No, I didn't, and you know why I didn't? Because 1) It would have been inappropriate; 2) It's an old and tired discussion that nobody's interested in hearing again, and most of all, 3) It's not what the original poster wanted to know. Again, he had a very simple question, I had the answer at hand, so I gave him the information that he needed.
Teej or anyone else is of course entitled to give their opinion on anything they wish here at Whiteblaze. All I'm saying is that I think things would flow smoother if people stayed to the subject more, and addressed particular questions with particular answers.
It's no secret that Teej has a beef with Dan Bruce, which is due entirely to his peevishness over getting thrown off of Bruce's website. If he wishes to hold a years-old grudge over something so silly, there's nothing I can do about it, except wish that he expressed his peevishness at the appropriate time and place.
Oh, and I loved his comment above, when he admonishes another poster about opening "a can of worms" that's been discussed previously, as tho Tej's complainta about Bruce have never been made before! David actually asked a fair question. The answer is that he probably doesn't need the Data Book as well, tho some folks elect to carry both as many folks seem to find the Data Book's mileage charts easier on the eye when figuring out distances or daily itineraries; many folks also use the data Book as a mini journal, where they comment on where they camped, how many miles they achieved each day, etc.
Lastly, I'm REALLY amused at post #110, where Teej he says he "anticipated" my joining the thread. Actually, Teej, I didn't join the thread after you ruined it. I'd actually joined the thread BEFORE you arrived and started flinging mud; I was actually the third person to post on this thread, and my post was around two sentences long......I answered the questions posted by the guy who started the thread, and that was it. No comments about Bruce, his book, its history, its competition, or my own personal feelings about any of these subjects. What I did, was to answer the poster's simple and direct questions.
Teej should try this sometime.
Lone Wolf
01-18-2006, 13:02
Hmmmm.Pithy. I like that word. I gotta look it up.:)
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 13:15
Wolf, just about ALL of your comments are pithy, and some of them are actually on the mark! :)
max patch
01-18-2006, 13:20
msg deleted
Alligator
01-18-2006, 13:32
ALL -- 100% -- of his comments on Trailplace are "on the mark" and contain helpful, accurate, and useful information to the subject being discussed.
Which is Exhibit A as to the benefits of a moderated discussion board.
LW actually has posts on Trailplace that make it through the moderator:confused: . I'll take your word that they are both very helpful:D .
I posted on Wingfoot's forum, Trailplace.com, asking him to provide sample pages of his Thru-hiker's guide so that I could compare it to ALDHA's. He censored out the "ALDHA" in that post. There was a reponse from one of his forum members that was aware only of ALDHA's databook but not the companion.
I then responded that ALDHA had a companion that was very similair in content to Wingfoot's guide. He delted that post. I posted it again, attributing it to my error. This post was also censored, with all references to the ALDHA being removed.
This censorship may be automated, or may have been by Wingfoot or a hired admin. Either way it is unacceptable. He passed up an oppertunity to say why his guide was better than the ALDHA's and instead didn't allow it to be mentioned on his forum.
I was leaning towards the Wingfoot guide, but I will now buy the ALDHA's guide.
I posted on Wingfoot's forum, Trailplace.com, asking him to provide sample pages of his Thru-hiker's guide so that I could compare it to ALDHA's. He censored out the "ALDHA" in that post. There was a reponse from one of his forum members that was aware only of ALDHA's databook but not the companion.
I then responded that ALDHA had a companion that was very similair in content to Wingfoot's guide. He delted that post. I posted it again, attributing it to my error. This post was also censored, with all references to the ALDHA being removed.
This censorship may be automated, or may have been by Wingfoot or a hired admin. Either way it is unacceptable. He passed up an oppertunity to say why his guide was better than the ALDHA's and instead didn't allow it to be mentioned on his forum.
I was leaning towards the Wingfoot guide, but I will now buy the ALDHA's guide.
You know WF does kick people off of his site. Be careful...
On another note, buy one or the other - it makes no difference. Believe me, you'll be so excited when you leave for the starting termnius (hopefully N) that buying either the WF or ALDHA was absolutely insignificant. Good luck on your thru hike.
...On another note, buy one or the other - it makes no difference. Believe me ... that buying either the WF or ALDHA was absolutely insignificant.
Not quite insignificant. The proceeds from one goes to the trail you're hiking on.
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 15:48
Sly has raised an excellent point: The Thru-Hiker's Companion is published as a joint venture by the Appalachian Long-Distance Hiker's Association, a very worthy group, and the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, the organization charged with the care, maintenance, and protection of the Trail. Most of the revenues from the book go to the Conservancy, i.e. the money from book sales does indeed go directly to the Trail.
The Handbook has greatly outsold the Companion in recent years, in no small measure due to the Handbook's inclusion of mileage charts, which include shelters, campsites, water sources, road crossings, road crossing information (i.e. telling you what's to be found at crossings; distances from towns; Post Offices; hiker hostels; restaurants, etc). The fact that the Handbook has included this information for several years has, in fact, made it the more useful guidebook, and this has, in fact, been a principal reason for recent hikers preferring one work over the other.
Not everyone is aware that the 2006 Companion, which will be available very soon, will also contain this information.
Those interested in examining the 2005 edition can view it on-line at www.aldha.org
Another advantage to the Companion is that its various sections are edited by folks who either live directly in the areas they're writing about, or have actually hiked that section of the Trail quite recently; this means that the Companion benefits from recent "hands on" opinions by folks who both know the sections they're writing about intimately, have actually seen, experienced,
or visited all of the locations or facilities that they're writing about, and who have also actually hiked those sections in the past year. (This is not necessarily the case with the Handbook, which is written by an extremely knowlegable hiker, but one who has done very little long-distance hiking in recent years).
Whichever guidebook the 2006 hikers elect to carry, you can't really go wrong. Both books are written and published by people who know and love the Trail, and while there are advantages and disadvantages to each book, and while each book contains data and information that is not found in its opposite number, it doesn't really matter which one you take. I always get BOTH books before I start a trip, study them both during my planning, and then decide later which one to actually carry while en route. In the end, it really doesn't matter. Your success and happiness on the Trail does not depend on your choice of trail guides.
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 16:21
It's no secret that Teej has a beef with Dan Bruce, which is due entirely to his peevishness over getting thrown off of Bruce's website.
There are only two persons who know if that is true. Me and Dan.
I have have repeatedly told Jack that I was not "thrown off" Dan's website.
The AT-l, Whiteblaze, Trailjournals, and probably even Trailplace are all archived. I challenge Jack to produce one post by me saying I was kicked off. I doubt Jack will even try, because he knows the truth. If I do have a personal issue with Dan it's over the email campaign he started years ago trying to discredit me that Jack participated in. That was settled quite a while ago, by simply pointing people to official information that contradicted Dan's claim. Dan has (last I looked) a doctored email about me posted on his website, but that's his problem, not mine. (Pun intended.)
Please, if anyone really cares about Jack's obsessive attacks on me, email him off the board. There's really no reason to re-hash old news just because Jack doesn't like what I post to the politics forum.
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 16:35
I'm obsessed? And I'm re-hashing old stuff?
I assure you the only one interested in your relations or non-relations with Mr. Bruce is YOU. And if the old dispute with Dan has been settled, as you claim, then why do insist on sniping at him at every available opportunity? You've done it here on WB more times than anyone can count.
You're right; the principal Trail websites are well-archived; it'd be very easy to find your scores of anti-Wingfoot tirades over the years, including dozens here.
Teej, your very first post on this thread was nasty and had NOTHING to do with the questions asked by the thread starter. You subsequently made repeated negative comments despite the thread starter stating his regret over the hijacking of his thread.
If you're serious, and actually wanna convince us that you don't have an unhealthy obsession with Mr. Bruce, there's an easy way to prove it: Grow up, and stop whining about him every time his name is mentioned. But for you to insist that the matter is settled and you're over it is ridiculous.....all anyone has to do is look at the first page or two of this thread, where it's apparent you only posted in order to be critical and unpleasant, and insisted on continuing this course, even when it was requested that you stop.
Jeez. Grow up. Get over it. There are more important things to worry about, at least for most of us. For you, maybe I'm not so sure.
Bye now. As a courtesy to Troll, who has already requested that we give this a rest, I suggest we take his advice and stick to the subject at hand....which isn't you. If you wanna continue stewing and fretting over this entirely ridiculous matter, do it on your own. Frankly, I'm bored with it.
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 16:45
You're right; the principal Trail websites are well-archived;
So then, find a post or email where I've said I was thrown off Dan's website or ****, and stick to topics you know something about.
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 16:49
Testy today, aren't we? Now you're reduced to sputtering curses.
One last time.....the only one who cares about this nonsense is you. Re-read and repeat this to yourself as often as necessary.
Bye, now.
smokymtnsteve
01-18-2006, 16:59
GO AHEAD AND LEAVE bj..
U said bye now in ur last 2 posts....
jist kant leave it alone kan U???
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 17:18
GO AHEAD AND LEAVE bj..
U said bye now in ur last 2 posts....
jist kant leave it alone kan U???
What he can't do Steve, is back up any of the nonsense he's posted.
I posted in regard to the Handbook or Dan just 5 times in the last 500 posts before this thread. There have been many more threads about Dan and his book than 5 since last spring.
Here they all are:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8764 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8764)
(edit, there are two posts by me in this ^ thread)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=125845#post125845 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=125845#post125845)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=125839#post125839 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=125839#post125839)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=130990#post130990 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=130990#post130990)
In looking through those 500 old posts, I see I've posted about Warren Doyle dozens of times. Honest readers will note that Jack hasn't become obsessed with telling me not to post about Warren.
So there you have it, not only Jack can't produce a single comment by me saying I was thrown off Dan's site, his bloviating about me posting responses "everytime" Dan is mentioned is just a lie. And yes, Jack - I can curse. Just as you can be crude with your "got a stick up his ass" comments.
Lone Wolf
01-18-2006, 17:23
Jacks off having cocktails. He'll be back to answer later even though he's tired of this thread and bored with it.:D Off to Dot's myself for some carbo-loading.
You know WF does kick people off of his site. Be careful...
yeah that can happen, but there are many many free e-mail services out there to provide one with a new address and user name.
smokymtnsteve
01-18-2006, 17:41
Jacks off having cocktails. He'll be back to answer later even though he's tired of this thread and bored with it.:D Off to Dot's myself for some carbo-loading.
:D ;) :D ;) :jump :rolleyes:
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 17:57
Jacks off having cocktails. He'll be back to answer later ...
I just started to look at his last 500 posts and gave up counting about a third of the way through at 100+. That's right folks, the guy who has posted about Warren well over 100 times in his last 500 posts has been scolding me (5 posts out of 500, one just providing WF's email address) for "obsessing" over Wingfoot!
...why do insist on sniping at him at every available opportunity? You've done it here on WB more times than anyone can count.
Maybe he's off learning how to count, or composing a bile-filled post to himself about his "having a stick up his ass" about Warren!
Alligator
01-18-2006, 18:01
If I may interject. Sorry to do this Teej, but I'll throw you a bone when I'm done. If you search by user TJ aka Teej with the terms Wingy or Wingfoot or Dan or Bruce then 108 hits are returned. For just Wingy or Wingfoot it is 83 posts. I'm not going to bother reading them to determine whether what was said was good or bad. That is more than five.
Of course, if you search on Warren or Doyle by user Jack Tarlin, 175 hits are returned. Again, I am not going to read them. Yes Jack, I know you didn't mention Warren first in some number of those posts.
The interested reader can decide what constitutes an obsession. Those numbers are out of the last 500 posts. In the mean time, go to your respective corners, and have a nice hot cup of....
chocolate. (We all know I can be crude, no need for a demonstration:bse .)
P.S. Those totals do not include the handbook, the Appalachian Trail Institute, or other code words like ENTIRE and Wingnut.
yeah that can happen, but there are many many free e-mail services out there to provide one with a new address and user name.
Surely you caught my sarcasm...
warren doyle
01-18-2006, 18:02
Oh, how I miss being obsessed over.
May I join your 'menage a trois?'
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 18:14
If you search by user TJ aka Teej with the terms Wingy or Wingfoot or Dan or Bruce then 108 hits are returned. For just Wingy or Wingfoot it is 83 posts. I'm not going to bother reading them to determine whether what was said was good or bad. That is more than five.
I clicked on user name and then clicked on 'see all posts by this user', and it shows the last 500 posts. I never thought about using 'search'! Still, my 5/500 compared to Jack's 100+/500, says a lot about where Jack's mind is at.
Those (search) numbers are out of the last 500 posts.
I just tried the search feature - seems like it shows all posts, not just the last 500.
Surely you caught my sarcasm...
most definantly, and greatly appreciated.
new record challenge: who can get kicked off the most in one day?
Alligator
01-18-2006, 18:42
...Those numbers are out of the last 500 posts...
This was incorrect on my part, the search does appear to go through all posts, not the last 500. My apologies on that score, I had a vague feeling I left a step out. First get the date for the earliest 500th post, then search back to that date. Dumb, I done it before.
Oh well, I thought it was a stalement but it seems that perhaps Teej is moving on. JACK, YOU MAY BE OBSESSED:jump !
Jack may be obsessed? That was rhetorical right? ;)
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 20:19
Just checking in......been off on other more interesting threads, trying to answer a few questions to help some folks out.
When Teej gets bored with counting and disssecting my last 500 posts, maybe he'll do likewise.
Hey Warren! Good to see you back! Got anything else to offer other here than promoting speed hiking, taking the odd shot at me, and hawking your Trail Institute?
Hmmmm........didn't think so. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
P.S. Teej, please add this post to your definitive compilation of my comments that mention Warren. I know how important it is to you that we keep accurate track of such monumentally important things.
Gotta run, boys, believe it or not, there are other more interesting threads here today.
Lone Wolf
01-18-2006, 20:22
Told y'all he'd be back!:D
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 20:37
Awww, c'mon Wolf! How often do I get to say "Hey!!" to my old buddy Warren now that he don't come 'round anymore?
Whoops, did it again. Don't forget to log it in the Big Book, Teej!
What does Wingfoot provide in his guide that aren't provided in the data book or companion?When you use Wingfoot's book, everything is laid out for you in the manner easiest for you to use. The companion has all the information, but has mileages from shelter to shelter, and it is hard to determine mileages from shelters to roads. The Data Book has good mileage, water source, etc data, but the publishers are still clinging to a Maine to Georgia format, which makes it a little tougher to use. Not impossible, of course, just more difficult than it need be.
Basically, Wingfoot has identified his audience and sells what they are looking for, unlike the Companion and Data Book, which are trying to dictate to customers. I think that if ALDHA and the ATC were responsive to thruhikers' needs, WIngfoot would be out of business in a couple of years. I certainly would switch to the Companion/Data Book combo if they would lay it out better.
QHShowoman
01-18-2006, 20:43
Has anyone ever found themselves in a situation where someone is going on and on about the same old crap and in your mind, you are muttering "shuddupshuddupshuddup" over and over again?
Just wondering.
P.S. Does the "Ignore" feature work on here?
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 20:45
Couldn't agree more!
QHShowoman
01-18-2006, 20:48
Oh Joy! The ignore feature DOES work.
...I think that if ALDHA and the ATC were responsive to thruhikers' needs, WIngfoot would be out of business in a couple of years. I certainly would switch to the Companion/Data Book combo if they would lay it out better.
Probably true, but I hope ALDHA and ATC don't. It is useful to have a variety of voices. Think how incompetent both organizations might drift into being, without Wingfoots competition.
Weary
Skidsteer
01-18-2006, 21:40
Probably true, but I hope ALDHA and ATC don't. It is useful to have a variety of voices. Think how incompetent both organizations might drift into being, without Wingfoots competition.
Weary
Spoken like a true Conservative.:D Just yankin' your Chain, Weary.
Spoken like a true Conservative.:D Just yankin' your Chain, Weary.
Waddayamean.? Yanking my chain? Us Liberals have always been the true conservatives. What's more conservative than intelligence and reason. God produced the human brain. Liberals assume he meant us to use it. Alleged conservatives, seem to have doubts. Like Wingfoot and ALDHA, we are just friendly competiors -- like Newt Ginrich and Al Gore -- now that I think about it. Jack, I'm still waiting for your admission that you have totally misjudged Gore's comments dealing with the Internet. Tell us Jack -- you so proud of your historical knowledge -- how you happened to have missed two decades of Gore's leadership.
Weary
Isn't the format of the ALDHA handbook being updated?
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 23:11
When Teej gets bored with counting and disssecting my last 500 posts, maybe he'll do likewise.
I gave up counting when your obsessive posts about Warren hit 100+ out of the first 250 or so. I'd like to say I'm sorry for exposing your hypocrisy and embarrassing you so completely - but I won't because I am not sorry. You deserved reading the truth about yourself. Over 100 of 250 posts by you were about Warren. You need a twelve step program, Jack.
TJ aka Teej
01-18-2006, 23:19
Isn't the format of the ALDHA handbook being updated?
Yup. The '05 edition sold 540 copies more than the '04 Companion. I think '06 will do even better thanks to all the changes. Each state will now begin with a table that includes road crossings, cumulative mileages both nobo from Springer and sobo from Katahdin, mileages between lean-tos, road crossing info, water sources and shelter information. 20 of the town maps have been re-done and a few new ones added, and Rambunny has rewritten the intros to each state. Windex was on the cover last year - I wonder who will be on this years?
Skidsteer
01-18-2006, 23:22
A motion to adjourn is always in order. Robert Heinlein (http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Robert_Heinlein/), Lazarus Long: Time Enough For Love
tlbj6142
01-19-2006, 13:53
Back on topic a bit, doesn't the handbook have some odd layout? Where the "trail stuff" is separated from the "town stuff" rather than integrated into one seamless section? I haven't seen a recent copy, but I know an older copy (late '90s) had that "problem" which I found quite annoying. It was sort of like carrying two separate books in one binding.
Footslogger
01-19-2006, 14:25
Back on topic a bit, doesn't the handbook have some odd layout? Where the "trail stuff" is separated from the "town stuff" rather than integrated into one seamless section?
==============================================
The front section is a mileage guide, much like the Data Book, with single line descriptions of key points, water sources etc. along the trail. There are page references to the more detailed summaries of towns and points of interest which are in the back section. The back section is more of what you'd need once you actually got to that particular point of interest rather than when you're hiking.
I do see your point about everything being in one continuous style rather than being broken up but I did not find it difficult to navigate and use.
'Slogger
Nightwalker
01-19-2006, 15:36
I'm obsessed? And I'm re-hashing old stuff?Absolutely. Constantly.
No one has mentioned whether ALDHA is going to publish a SOBO edition. Wingfoot use to, but he says there weren't enough sales to justify printing one anymore. Will ALDHA consider?
Before anyone says read the current WF's backwards, we did. Wasn't a problem. Just got to keep the Lefts right and the rights left. No biggie. I am talking true SOBO format.
the goat
01-19-2006, 16:25
No one has mentioned whether ALDHA is going to publish a SOBO edition. Wingfoot use to, but he says there weren't enough sales to justify printing one anymore. Will ALDHA consider?
i second that, this is discriminatory trail guiding!!!
sobos rule.
Jack Tarlin
01-19-2006, 17:34
Probably not, and for the same reason.....not enough Southbounders, so not enough sales potential.
terrapin05
01-19-2006, 18:15
to jack tarlin if you are out there right now wait till you get to franklin and buy the 05 version for half price at the outfitters,there is not too many diffs to make a big deal
Jack Tarlin
01-19-2006, 18:21
Out there now??
Hell, no, I'm not that crazy. I'm in New Hampshire which is bad enough.
I prefer to see Franklin in the springtime.
But thanx anyway.
Actually I buy new copies of both books every year, as I like to keep up with new stuff and additions. Also, I revise my "Re-Supply" article every year, and I like to have a look at both new Guidebooks before I do so I hopefully don't leave out something important.