View Full Version : How soon is to soon?
One Half
10-06-2016, 17:21
How soon is to soon to start researching your resupply for a thru hike?
Here's the situation.
It will likely be 2019 before we can thru, though it could be 2018. Pretty unlikely that it would be 2017 but if the stars align....
We have a very specific way we eat which rules out resupply along the trail except through mail drops. We will be freeze drying all of our own meals though we will likely be able to eat at restaurants at times when we are "in town" with accommodations (don't worry, we tip well for the trouble).
So as you can see, resupplying is a high priority. I am a planner. I would like to be able to know what we are facing. I also realize that between then and now some businesses may go out of business and we will have to do a last minute check in before we launch. But if we were able to go next spring, I would want to be ready.
Maybe I just answered my own question. LOL
And what resource would you recommend for finding the most up to date mail drop locations? I have many links (WB and other sites) but not sure they are the most up to date.
Slo-go'en
10-06-2016, 23:26
The current list of mail drop locations which includes PO's, hostels, motels and other businesses will still be 99.9% accurate in a couple of years. The only real variable would be businesses, as they can come and go or decide handling boxes is too much trouble. That can be tweaked when the time comes. No problem if you just use town Post Offices.
The real question is how much to prepare in advance and when. If you prepare 6 months of food in advance and only use 4 or 2 or 1 months worth, that wasn't very cost effective.
One Half
10-06-2016, 23:34
The current list of mail drop locations which includes PO's, hostels, motels and other businesses will still be 99.9% accurate in a couple of years. The only real variable would be businesses, as they can come and go or decide handling boxes is too much trouble. That can be tweaked when the time comes. No problem if you just use town Post Offices.
The real question is how much to prepare in advance and when. If you prepare 6 months of food in advance and only use 4 or 2 or 1 months worth, that wasn't very cost effective.
As for preparing too much food, not a problem. We always have a very well stocked "pantry" and the freeze dried foods would simply go into the rotation anyway. Also, given our recent dietary changes eating out is very difficult and freeze drying food will become just a part of our everyday life.
Regardless of your requirements you could figure out the logistics in a few weeks or a month if you can devote a bit of time to it everyday. What would be awesome is to have a support person at home who would take orders, fill them and ship them upon request.
When I'm in a long hike I'll call my wife and ask her to please ship x to y to arrive by a certain date.
To directly answer your question: if you're not going to hike until 2019 forget about it till mid-2018 - obsess about something else for a few years. :)
Small post offices in tiny out of the way places are subject to gummermint budgetary whims. Phone them first before mailing.
Good luck.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Another Kevin
10-07-2016, 15:46
I'll confess that I've already started the research for a "thru hike" that I may do in retirement, which is likely not for a few years yet - assuming that the good Lord spares my health until then.
Why start the research so soon?
It's a route rather than a trail. The New York Long Path (which has one branch that shares treadway with the AT from Harriman to High Point, NJ, so I can post about it here...) was originally envisioned as a route - not a trail - from New York to the Adirondak Loj near Lake Placid. It was eventually blazed as a trail as far as Altamont, NY. The understanding is that blazing it as a trail does not really respect the original intent - the hiker was supposed to do his own research and find his own way to a set of listed landmarks, following a rough description of the route. Nevertheless, it was necessary, or else the increasing enclosure of posted lands would have cut off access altogether. (The Harriman-High Point route is to cut off a hellish roadwalk in Orange County.)
NYC-Altamont counts as thru-hiking the Long Path. But that doesn't really satisfy me. North of Altamont, there's a recommended roadwalk (with a couple or three very short in-the-woods sections) that terminates in Northville, at the southern terminus of the Northville-Placid Trail. The current idea is that if you really wanted to hike through to Lake Clear of Heart, you'd take the Northville-Placid as far as Duck Hole, and then detour on the Preston Ponds, Calamity Brook and Indian Pass trails. That, too, is unsatisfying, because the descriptions of the original route are spectacular. Alas, for about eighty years, the original route was pretty well out of reach, because it crossed many miles of posted lands. Vinvcent Schaefer's original account, which warns the hiker against building fires or camping on private land, seems charmingly naive today, when even the most innocuous crossing along the edge of a farmer's field is likely to get you at best arrested and at worst shot.
One vast tract of the posted territory belonged to the lumber company Finch Pruyn & Co. In 2007, Finch Pruyn & Co underwent a reorganization to become Finch Paper LLC. Its new owners, Atlas Holdings LLC and Blue Wolf Capital Partners, sold Finch Pruyn's Adirondack holdings to The Nature Conservancy, which a few years later, conveyed them to New York State to become "forever wild." There will be a somewhat complex process to unwind current leaseholds, and an acrimonious controversy over just what sort of access to allow where, but the outcome will be that by 2018, virtually all of the holdings will be accessible to the public, at least on foot. Opening them up makes the old route look feasible again.
Attempting to thru-hike it means reviving a route that had largely followed abandoned haul roads and trails, and that has been largely unmaintained and forgotten even by hikers since the 1930's. Since it was a route, rather than a trail, I'd not attempt to follow it slavishly, but I'd think it would be good to try to hit most of the landmarks that the original proponents called out. A lot of it would be entirely unmapped on modern maps. Finding the described route would mean navigating to roads that are now grown to mature trees - probably carrying the maps from the 1895-7 and 1952-3 topographic surveys as well as the "current" ones (1989: there have been no new USGS ground surveys since then, because that service was defunded in the first Bush administration), and modern maps produced from spaceborne radar and aerial imagery. Recovering the route would be at least as much an archaeologic expedition as a hiking trip. Even some of the original route description simply involved heading across country, not following any established road or trail.
The portions that are on trail would range from strolling in a city park to epically strenuous sections. The route would traverse at least eleven Catskill high peaks (including the Burroughs Range Trail, about half the Devil's Path, and the Escarpment Trail, all of which would be considered challenging trails even in New Hampshire), and would also include nearly all of an Adirondack Great Range traverse (missing only Lower Wolf Jaw).
Some of the advance research would probably involve field work, since I can't tell from aerial imagery whether some of the old sections might even be passable. Given the logistical difficulties (it looks to me as if the only good resupply options between Northville and Heart Lake will be North Creek and Minerva), I don't want to discover suddenly that I need to backtrack five miles and go around the other side of a mountain! Given the zigs and zags that the original route takes (in order to take in the very best of the Adirondack high country), it's rather a long haul from Minerva to Heart Lake, so there would have to be a contingency plan such as hiking out to Keene Valley for resupply. The Northville-North Creek run also may be more mileage than I feel comfortable doing without resupply, so I'd have to investigate options. There are a handful of road crossings, and even a short roadwalk section, so there is likely some sort of business in there somewhere that could set up a shuttle or hold a box.
The hike would have to be coordinated in advance with NYSDEC, because of permit requirements in Eastern High Peaks Wilderness. The permits (as of 2016) are self-issuing, but the problem is that the proposed route doesn't anywhere close to a trailhead where you can get one. At the proposed point where I'd enter the restricted area (somewhere between Boreas Ponds and Panther Gorge), I think it's a six mile hike to the nearest official trailhead at Elk Lake.
NYC to Lake Clear of Heart would become a "big hike" of about 550 miles. Conditions would vary from the sidewalks of New York (and the walkway of the George Washington Bridge) to out-and-out bushwhack. There would be maybe a total of a hundred miles of roadwalk, mostly over pleasant farm roads with good views. The one really long roadwalk, across the Mohawk Valley, could readily be completed in three days, and I have an extensive support network there, so I could easily slackpack that section.
Obviously, the research for this sort of thing is a lot more extensive than simply looking up where the post offices are on an established trail. The need for research would multiply, because I'd want to write about the trip, fitting the route into its historical context. There would be a lot of time spent reading old newspapers, tracking down contemporary people's journals, and similar work. (I have some good leads on starting points.)
My best guess is that someone is going to beat me to this, and write a book about it. More power to them! If nobody does, then I'll write the book myself, otherwise, someone else will spare me the effort.
This may be my "Ben on Adventures" moment. But I don't think so. I have a certain amount of experience with off-trail travel and recovering abandoned routes. I'd be going in with my eyes open. I've done all eleven of the Catskill peaks that the route traverses. I'm busy about one weekend a month mapping the trail through the Helderbergs. The trail there is maintained and blazed, but nobody - not the NYSDEC, not the NY/NJ Trail Conference, not NatGeo - has any printed maps available, and even the available electronic ones have glaring errors.
It's surely not the same thing as a thru-hike of a major trail, but it's closer to the way I roll.
In summary, the trip would be about, "where does the trail go beyond the points listed on this sign?" which everyone hiking the AT in Harriman has passed by.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8427/7881561738_6cf173d928_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/d1t4Hu)
IMG_2558 (https://flic.kr/p/d1t4Hu) by Kevin Kenny (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ke9tv/), on Flickr
gracebowen
10-07-2016, 15:46
My thru hike attempt is a ways off yet but ive studied out some mail drop options too. I plan on getting 75% or more of my food by mail. Ill dehydrate it at home too.
If and when i complete my hike I will be on a very limited budget. I will be able to say how cheap it can be done and how to do it.
Ill have to keep good records because many wont believe me. I wont post my budget till im done.
I would find it extremely challenging logistically planning for relying on mailed resupply 100% of the time for all my on trail food for an entire 2200 AT thru-hike without being wasteful or wanting in some way. For me, it's easy to get it wrong occasionally or have to adapt for some unplanned for event to thru-hike with such a rigid plan...and that's knowing myself, how I hike, my typical pace, what I'm in for, as an experienced LD hiker, with a willingness to hitchhike for resupplying further from the trail than many thru-hikers desire, and having a flexible mindset. Mailing SOME resupply boxes on almost all my 500+ mile hikes but leaving options open to buying some and supplementing along the way at key large grocery store locations while knowing pre hike the quality of the variety of foods at those stores offers some more flexibility and less hassle overall than attempting to get all my food from mailed boxes for such a long thru-hike.
"We have a very specific way we eat which rules out resupply along the trail except through mail drops. We will be freeze drying all of our own meals...." I've personally known or know about some of the strictest Vegans, Diabetics, Gluten Free, Paleo, Atkins, different types of vegetarians(I'm one), Organic only Foodies(I'm close to being one), raw food only eaters, etc that have found ways to buy some along the way on the AT, PCT and CDT. Even the most anal hardcore Foodies will find acceptable full and partial resupply locations even in the southeast at large grocery store chains. The AT IMHO has probably the most over ana-lyzed, documented, and frequency of ease resupply logistics for a 500+ mile trail in N. America. Use this to your advantage to find large grocery stores like: Sprouts, Earthfare, WholeFoods, Wegmans, Harris Teeter, The Fresh Market, Krogers, Publix, Ingles, Trader Joes, Market Basket,... All these stores have east coast locations and will have at least some if not all the potential for the pickiest Foodies. And, don't forget even chains like Walmart SuperStores and Costco have Organic non highly processed highly refined Gluten Free selections. Now, more than ever grocery and healthfood store retailers are catering to "healthier" food desires.
Farmers markets can be another source offering great varieties of produce and fresh local Organic food possibly not found in large grocery store chains in such abundance.
What AT thru-hikers could, and IMHO should do, with such super strict dietary requirements is not always expect to buy along the way in every location having the utmost convenience. For example, you're not going to have the opportunity to locate any or all these stores listed at all possible resupply locations 2 miles or less from an AT TH. Jack Tarlin's resupply article here on WB still provides applicable and excellent AT resupply logistical considerations and info. If you really like to plan as you say combining these various sources of resupply info will get a AT thru-hiker to Mt K even with such strict food requirements.
MuddyWaters
10-07-2016, 17:22
Everything else aside, figuring out the 25 places to send mail drops ought to take a couple hrs at most.
So yeah, starting 1.5 yrs in advance is a tad early.
But so what(
MuddyWaters
10-07-2016, 17:22
Everything else aside, figuring out the 25 places to send mail drops ought to take a couple hrs at most. You have X choices and must space them out.
So yeah, starting 1.5 yrs in advance is a tad early.
But so what?
Your gonna waste mucho time thinking you can optimize a schedule that is blown out of water the first week. But go ahead and endlessly debate merits of 3 and 5 day food carries that will never happen.
Somethings to consider to be less wasteful is dehydrate foods for your mailed resupply boxes that you can also eat at home enjoyably. Having similar menus and eating habits both on and off trail has helped me in this regard. We don't always know what's going to happen despite our well laid out plans. Consider 8 out of every 10 or so professing AT thru-hikers don't complete the AT. Dehydrating enough food for two hikers for a 4+ month thru-hike, gathering all the snacks, boxing all of it up into 12+ resupply boxes, choosing where to send it to, addressing it correctly, having it all mailed out in appropriate time frames, and postaging it correctly can be a time consuming and logistically complex affair. ;)
Consider I did that for one anticipated Grand Enchantment Trail(GET) thru-hike two yrs ago. I was taken off this hike leaving me with 4 GET taped up, postaged up, addressed, and ready to be dropped off at the USPO Priority Flat Rate resupply boxes that couldn't be used until I got onto the GET the following yr to complete the hike. All these boxes had to be reopened and reworked because all the food in these boxes would not have been edible after sitting around for 12 months. Some of those foods especially the snacks were of a high dollar amount specifically meant for on trail consumption that eventually wound up being eaten at home or given away.
As you dehydrate choose the timing of it to coincide with some high state of freshness at anticipated time of consumption. Vacuum pack seal, etc. I dehydrate some close to mailing times placing into double Ziplocs dropping in a moisture absorbing packet saved from vitamin pill bottles. I've never had one dehydrated meal go rancid inside a resupply box doing it this way when using a 4-5 month timeframe for freshness. When packing a resupply box I find it sometimes best with some items such as jerky or high oil items like dried coconut bought in packaging to leave it unopened in its original packaging until I receive the resupply box. At that time I will often repackage into a Ziploc rolling it up winding with a rubber band or two I've thrown into the resupply box.
Consider USPS Flat Rate Priority boxes. There are several advantages, one being set postage rates so postage can be adhered before embarking to the AT making it easier for those dropping it off at the USPO(no line to wait in or money to be exchanged for postage at the PO). Second, faster, typically 2-3 day, mailing times from Texas to the east coast removing the guess work about when its appropriate mailing and receiving time. Third, gives ya flexibility to freely bump ahead to another USPO if you fail to pick it up where originally mailed at another USPO.
There will be push back against your plan here on WB but there can also be several notable benefits to mailing many/all of your resupply boxes too. i.e; easier to budget for on trail expenses since food costs are largely removed from the equation, less time in town gathering up and repackaging food bought on the fly made even more difficult, and potentially impossible at some locations, with picky dietary requirements, freeing up in town time for other activities, less garbage accumulated in town, more time potentially spent on trail compared to in town, a potentially speedier overall thru-hike, the contentment offered knowing you've committed to positive dietary changes you're sticking too, less food unknowns in town,....
Everything else aside, figuring out the 25 places to send mail drops ought to take a couple hrs at most. You have X choices and must space them out.
So yeah, starting 1.5 yrs in advance is a tad early.
But so what?
For a first time 2000 miler? For a first time "I'm mailing 25 resupply boxes" thru-hike? For one, not abreast of the oodles of potential AT resupply locations? For one who may, and should, double check the reliability and details of resupply mailing locations? :-?
I'll confess that I've already started the research for a "thru hike" that I may do in retirement, which is likely not for a few years yet - assuming that the good Lord spares my health until then.
Why start the research so soon?
It's a route rather than a trail.
Sounds like it is right up your alley. Perhaps out respective retirements and good health will intersect. :)
MuddyWaters
10-07-2016, 17:49
For a first time 2000 miler? For a first time "I'm mailing 25 resupply boxes" thru-hike? For one, not abreast of the oodles of potential AT resupply locations? For one who may, and should, double check the reliability and details of resupply mailing locations? :-?
It's as complicated as you make it.
BJs list and AT guide is all you need.
Need to have someone else do mailing anyway, all you need is first few mailed ahead
Then let them mail where you tell them each week. You'll know by the time pick one up, where u want next one.
What goes in the boxes is a different story than where to send, and is really unrelated.
The more planning done in advance. The worse the outcome will likely be. As far as mailing goes
If you don't have someone at home shipping.....frickin disaster probably.
Imo
One Half
10-07-2016, 18:23
It's as complicated as you make it.
BJs list and AT guide is all you need.
Need to have someone else do mailing anyway, all you need is first few mailed ahead
Then let them mail where you tell them each week. You'll know by the time pick one up, where u want next one.
What goes in the boxes is a different story than where to send, and is really unrelated.
The more planning done in advance. The worse the outcome will likely be. As far as mailing goes
If you don't have someone at home shipping.....frickin disaster probably.
Imo
I have seen some great suggestions and one that we will take advantage of is to have a complete list of what we have "back home with the support person" and be able to ask them to pack it up and we will remove it from our list. I have seen variations on this where you pack a "basic box" and then have extras they can add in. But the bottom line is you having a master list with you and keeping it updated. Which with today's technology should be no problem. Heck! I could do this with paper and be perfectly happy!
MuddyWaters
10-07-2016, 19:13
knowing absolutely nothing else, A possible schedule is 10-12 mpd for new hikers:
1 mountain crossings - 4 day trail food + zero day food at mx
2 Ron Haven Hiawassee - 5 daytrail food + zero day
3 NOC - 3 day trail food
4 Fontana village PO - 6 day trail food + zero day
5 Standing bear- 3 day trail food + zero day
6 Elmers -6 days food
7 Uncle Johnnies - 4 days food + zero day
8 Mountain Harbour- 5 days food
9 Mt Rogers outfitters
About 23% of trail there in ......2 minutes most of it typing.
My point is, if you had only a few fixed choices...it would be easy.
Its the stewing over options forever trying to optimize that makes it difficult
The problem is, you will never know the optimum because you dont have all the info until you are on trail
You just have to make a choice, and go with it, and it doesnt take that much info to do that.
sometimes youwill have too much food, sometimes you will wait a day to be able to pick up a resupply, thats how it goes.
Most of the time you wont want a lot of what you thought you did 6 mo ago anyway
Dont ship to PO and have to wait till monday to pick up...very bad.
If you got someone to help you be flexible...you have it a lot easier.
One Half
10-07-2016, 19:48
knowing absolutely nothing else, A possible schedule is 10-12 mpd for new hikers:
1 mountain crossings - 4 day trail food + zero day food at mx
2 Ron Haven Hiawassee - 5 daytrail food + zero day
3 NOC - 3 day trail food
4 Fontana village PO - 6 day trail food + zero day
5 Standing bear- 3 day trail food + zero day
6 Elmers -6 days food
7 Uncle Johnnies - 4 days food + zero day
8 Mountain Harbour- 5 days food
9 Mt Rogers outfitters
About 23% of trail there in ......2 minutes most of it typing.
My point is, if you had only a few fixed choices...it would be easy.
Its the stewing over options forever trying to optimize that makes it difficult
The problem is, you will never know the optimum because you dont have all the info until you are on trail
You just have to make a choice, and go with it, and it doesnt take that much info to do that.
If you got someone to help you be flexible...you have it a lot easier.
I hear ya. I just want to know my options and obviously businesses are better options for mail drops usually than a post office.
I'm not disagreeing with you MW. I'm addressing this major defining assumption and parameter, "we have a very specific way we eat which rules out resupply along the trail except through mail drops."
Attempting to get mailed resupply 100% correct for every resupply on a 2200 mile hike as a first time 2200 mile thru hiker by automatically and immediately ruling out buying any on trail food along the way without being wasteful or wanting in some way, again, is extremely challenging.
Have YOU personally attempted to mail every resupply relying SOLELY on those mailed resupplies for on trail food disregarding any acceptable in town restaurant eating on your first AT thru hike?
MuddyWaters
10-07-2016, 21:14
I'm not disagreeing with you MW. I'm addressing this major defining assumption and parameter, "we have a very specific way we eat which rules out resupply along the trail except through mail drops."
Attempting to get mailed resupply 100% correct for every resupply on a 2200 mile hike as a first time 2200 mile thru hiker by automatically and immediately ruling out buying any on trail food along the way without being wasteful or wanting in some way, again, is extremely challenging.
Have YOU personally attempted to mail every resupply relying SOLELY on those mailed resupplies for on trail food disregarding any acceptable in town restaurant eating on your first AT thru hike?
I agree with you completely
Only I suggest its near impossible to plan and stick to for 6 mo, so dont agonize over it, be flexible.
Storms, injuries, unplanned zeros, zeros with new friends, all guarantee you will vary from planned schedule and need to be OK with eating some town food, or hauling around a couple extra days food.
I should have? said it that succinctly. ;)
Get the databook...buy enough food to make it to Neels Gap...when you get to Neels Gap, look in the databook and plan your next resupply point and buy enough food to make it to that place...when you get there plan your next resupply. I see people on here all the time making spreadsheets and planning everything out to the minutest detail but the reality is that when you get out there your whole plan is going to go out the window and you'll just wing it.
I think the best prep you can do, as far as logistics go, is to get one of the guides and put together a list of all of the useful towns and supply stops, and the mileage of each one from the start of your hike.
A list like that for a 600 mile section would cover about a page or so and have maybe two or three dozen entries. (Recalling from personal experience.) Another way to build that list is from reading journals. Or look up Baltimore Jack's resupply guide, somewhere in the reference pages of WhiteBlaze. Jack's list is eight or ten years old by now but probably still 90% valid.
Personally I don't go for trying to predict daily mileage, or where I'll be on a certain date. Too many variables, and no accounting for unexpected delays for all sorts of reasons -- hooking up with friends, minor emergencies, layovers due to foul weather, gear replacement, etc.
One Half
10-08-2016, 23:33
I'm not disagreeing with you MW. I'm addressing this major defining assumption and parameter, "we have a very specific way we eat which rules out resupply along the trail except through mail drops."
Attempting to get mailed resupply 100% correct for every resupply on a 2200 mile hike as a first time 2200 mile thru hiker by automatically and immediately ruling out buying any on trail food along the way without being wasteful or wanting in some way, again, is extremely challenging.
Have YOU personally attempted to mail every resupply relying SOLELY on those mailed resupplies for on trail food disregarding any acceptable in town restaurant eating on your first AT thru hike?
I am not ruling out eating in restaurants along the way. We can handle those things. But to plan on resupplying from stores en route really will not work. Will we be able to grab a few fresh veggies every now and then? sure. Wouldn't even mind grabbing a dozen eggs and hard boiling them for the trail before leaving town. But we cannot eat the way we do and depend on resupplying on the trail. Most people eat the same several meals every week as it is. We probably have a much larger variety of meals than the average person as I like to cook and try new things. We will be buying a freeze dryer which will make preparing a wide variety of meals and snacks much easier. While we certainly have our favorite meals we have no shortage of variety now. I don't see variety on the trail being a problem.
YoungBloodOnTrail
10-09-2016, 00:08
It's never too soon, planning is what keeps us sane while waiting to hike!
YoungBloodOnTrail
10-09-2016, 00:09
With that said though you will want to recheck the info closer to departure as some things may change, stores will close and new ones will pop up, mailing addresses could change or places could stop accepting hiker packages.
"I am not ruling out eating in restaurants along the way. We can handle those things. But to plan on resupplying from stores en route really will not work."
Does not compute. Help me understand why your diet allows eating at restaurants while making it absolutely impossible doing a resupply for food buying at a large grocery store picking one of the chains I listed?
You're telling me with your diet, no matter how strict, you can't get a 5 day resupply at a Sprouts, Earthfare, WholeFoods, Krogers or Harris Teeter that has well stocked Organic, gluten free, no sugar, Vegan, Diabetic, vegetarian, Paleo, raw food, blah blah blah sections?
I'll bet that if you comb shelves at large grocery stores you'll find more resupply than you assume!
This is no longer the 1990's or even early 2000's. Healthy varieties of foods catering to just about every diet have gone mainstream. Walmart Super Centers(those with food markets) are even stocking foods not traditionally or normally associated with it's merchandise. Consumers have spoken. They want to eat healthier. There is a growing market segment that is proactively informing themselves how to eat healthier with a willingness to wade through marketing hype and fight for the right to know what's in their food. Retailers are scrambling to meet consumer demand.
rocketsocks
10-09-2016, 06:31
Was it to soon when the Germans bombed Perl Habour.
Was it to soon when the Germans bombed Perl Habour.
Right on!
Confirming what Dogwood said in 25 words or less.
He is right. Even East Texas convenience stores have healthy food these days. You won't die if you deviate from your 1 in a 1,000,000 ultra exclusive diet during the course of a 4-6 month hike.
A hitch to Earth Faire and Harris Teeter in Boone is worth the effort.
More than 25 words. Sorry.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Was it to soon when the Germans bombed Perl Habour.
Germany is planning to do it as well? Better get busy planning for round two I guess...
One Half
10-09-2016, 17:14
"I am not ruling out eating in restaurants along the way. We can handle those things. But to plan on resupplying from stores en route really will not work."
Does not compute. Help me understand why your diet allows eating at restaurants while making it absolutely impossible doing a resupply for food buying at a large grocery store picking one of the chains I listed?
You're telling me with your diet, no matter how strict, you can't get a 5 day resupply at a Sprouts, Earthfare, WholeFoods, Krogers or Harris Teeter that has well stocked Organic, gluten free, no sugar, Vegan, Diabetic, vegetarian, Paleo, raw food, blah blah blah sections?
I'll bet that if you comb shelves at large grocery stores you'll find more resupply than you assume!
This is no longer the 1990's or even early 2000's. Healthy varieties of foods catering to just about every diet have gone mainstream. Walmart Super Centers(those with food markets) are even stocking foods not traditionally or normally associated with it's merchandise. Consumers have spoken. They want to eat healthier. There is a growing market segment that is proactively informing themselves how to eat healthier with a willingness to wade through marketing hype and fight for the right to know what's in their food. Retailers are scrambling to meet consumer demand.
Well, since you asked (and I thoroughly enjoy your posts):
We are grain and added sugar free (with a very small exception with dark chocolate but even there we must be vigilant as some brands have more sugar added than others). Grain free means no rice, pasta, bread, corn etc. Not just gluten free. No grains. Also means no "vegetable oils." Nothing with added sugars or fake sweeteners. We use monk fruit and erythritol for sweetening. Natural sweeteners without sugar spiking. No honey, agave etc. Certainly no corn sweeteners or derivatives. No rice syrups. very limited soy. basically if it has more than 1 ingredient, it gets strict scrutiny.
We eat only organically raised veggies (even if they don't have the organic label - I grilled my local farmers market guys until I found one I like) with a very few exceptions. And we choose pasture raised meats when we are able. This is much harder because of cost and being able to locate these items.
For us to resupply for 5 days from a grocery store wouldn't work because we would have to buy fresh foods mostly and the weight would kill us not to mention that much of it would spoil on the trail.
We can eat at a restaurant, though it can be difficult. It helps if the restaurant will cook to our needs upon request - like using butter to cook eggs or whatever instead of their normal oil. Yes, we eat veggies at restaurants even though I have never found one that serves organic ones. Fresh veggies instead of freeze dried or dehydrated organics is a good swap in my mind. We very seldom eat out since starting this way of eating (3+ months). We recently visited friends for a weekend. We brought our own breakfast to heat up in the hotel room (I hate getting dressed before eating anyway so this made our mornings better). She cooked dinner the first night we arrived. Her and her husband eat pretty similar to us so that was good. We grabbed a salad at a salad bar for lunch so while not organic, I was able to choose what did and did not go on my salad. Easy peasy. Dinner was a little more challenging because even though we went out to a "paleo" restaurant they still insisted on cooking with vegetable oils. I really wanted to try something new and the chef said he would be willing to customize things but eventually I settled on a steak and veggies as it was the least "non compliant" with my dietary choices. The staff was wonderful and the waitress especially so. She received a 30% tip for her patience with me. Having worked in restaurants I know that even "gourmet/specialty" places will often outsource many of their sauces due to cost. So sauces and even spices is one place where there can be lots of hidden ingredients that negatively affect us. Even "little bits" add up over time. Since switching to this way of eating my blood sugar is normal (almost optimal) and our blood pressures are fantastic (105/62 ish) and we are both nearer to 50 than any other number with a zero in it. We have each lost 15-20 lbs as well. Aches and pains that used to nag us are gone, especially in the joints. Energy is also phenomenal. Forget about all those things people tell you to expect as you age that we had been dealing with, we have probably gone back to where we were 15 years ago healthwise and will continue to see these benefits and more the longer we eat like this. My allergies have pretty much disappeared, which can be a real PITA when backpacking.
So we are choosing to resupply by mail for the most part in order to stay with these great feelings of health and as I said in prior posts, we will eat at restaurants when able (a flame grilled steak sounds FANTASTIC) and get fresh veggies as well as we can.
I will say, before we even changed our eating habits we were finding restaurant food less and less appealing. Since I sold my business last year and stayed "home" I have been cooking nearly every meal. Almost every restaurant meal since has been a disappointment. Except the prime rib at H3 in Fort Worth. If you are ever in the area, go there. You won't regret it. But I would actually recommend the ribeye. Had a bite of my brother's ribeye there and OMG! Next time we go that's what I am eating (they also raise their own beef)!
So I guess if I wanted to eat organic oatmeal and pasta meals and "paleo bars" I would be good to go at most large grocery stores. But paleo is not grain free and added sugar free. We are NOT vegan by any stretch, not even going there. Many "diabetic" approved foods are extremely high in carbs. So to steal a line from you - does not compute (a diabetic bar with 30grams carbs?!) I also prefer to have more variety. One of the things we will be experimenting with (we likely have 2+ years before attempting) is how creative we can get with grain free breads/tortillas/deserts/etc to round out our meals and seeing how they do in the freeze dryer and then reconstituting them while backpacking.
I hope that makes it clearer to you on why I say we cannot restock at a grocery store.
THX. The details do make things clearer. They can be important as they are in your parties hiking situation. It seems you're backing down a bit from your rigid stance that you will not be apply to do any resupplying as an absolute as you buy or perhaps I was misunderstand your opening post? :-?
With some flexibility of traveling off the AT to further away locations as I listed you can do "buy along the way" 4-5 day resupplies even if they aren't your main source of on trail food which you'd dress with mailed boxes. Even with one of the most difficult features of your diet, monk fruit sweetener and erythritol, Swerve(100% erythritol) and Wholesome Sweeteners Brand Zero Cal are carried by Whole Foods, Sprouts Earthfare, Stop & Shop, and perhaps a few Kroger stores off the top of my head. In any case how much potent sweetener does one really need on a resupply while thru-hiking? Although I have known two Vegan couples on different PCT hikes that carried erythritol derived from monk fruit used in their daily yerba mate breaks. One coupler had small individual packets and the other a larger bag.
There's a misconception that all "pasta" is equal because we've been accustomed to think of it has been traditionally derived from durum wheat or it tends to all be in one aisle next to each other. When Healthcare Professionals refer to "pasta" this is what they invariably are talking about. For example, "pasta" can be made from non grains such as buckwheat or quinoa which are both actually seeds sometime preferred to as pseudo cereals. Ancient Harvest quinoa pastas and several Organic SOBA Buckwheat brand noodles are found in large grocery stores. SOBA Buckwheat noodles have been located at even Dollar Generals. are also made from beans with bean flour or from vegetables like yams from yam flour. Explore Asia bean pasta brand is turning up in stores from Wholefoods, Earthfare, Sprouts to Kroger stores. The other day I saw it at a Walmart along with organic hemp hearts, and shelled/milled chia and fall seed.
You'll find grain free gluten free yeast free soy free low carb blah blah blah Paleo Bread brand and Paleo Wraps made by Julan Bakery and WrawP brand tortillas at some large grocery stores as well but this find is relegated more to the EarthFare, Sprouts and WholeFoods type stores but also at some Krogers with an Organic aisle.
Organic free range antibiotic free growth hormone fresh meats are found everywhere and some specialty stores as just listed offer high priced jerkies of the same.
I haven't been in a produce section of any large grocery store chain recently and not seen Organic produce. Maybe not in the widest selection as hoped for, but organic produce is everywhere.
I strongly recommend you consider growing sprouts on trail as you hike for their abundant nutrition. It is EASY. http://outdoorherbivore.com/trail-sprouting/
Thx for the H3 steak rec but I've been a vegetarian since 1997. Maybe, I'll take one of my omnivore friends or clients there one day. You have been like the 6th person to offer the H3 rec to me.
So, you and your wife must be looking forward to the Pine Grove Furnace 1/2 gal ice cream challenge.
While keenly observing my own and others on trail food and drink consumption it became so obvious food cravings and addictions and the root causes. Being on trail for long periods finally offers opportunities for sobering up from these questionable food habits.
rocketsocks
10-09-2016, 19:55
It should be noted, not all plan, some wake up at three in the mourning...and go for a long walk, no planning, thats the beauty no?
One Half
10-09-2016, 22:49
So, you and your wife must be looking forward to the Pine Grove Furnace 1/2 gal ice cream challenge.
While keenly observing my own and others on trail food and drink consumption it became so obvious food cravings and addictions and the root causes. Being on trail for long periods finally offers opportunities for sobering up from these questionable food habits.
I'm the wife. My husband and I will be skipping the half gallon challenge. He has learned to make compliant ice cream, and it's damn good, but I don't think it will freeze dry well as I hear full fat items do not freeze dry. But, I am sure he will at least try!
One Half
10-09-2016, 22:50
It should be noted, not all plan, some wake up at three in the mourning...and go for a long walk, no planning, thats the beauty no?
and that's awesome, but not necessarily for us.
elWiesel
10-23-2016, 19:00
For me the whole thing looks like you´ll need less of a "Resupply-Plan" and more of a "Resupply-Logistic-Person", who is in the real world and can adjust to where you are and how many miles you are doing.
That is because the one thing (my personal experience at least) to avoid is a set-in-stone fixed Pace. Looking back at my hike this year I had a couple of Places I had to be a certain date (short term meet-up-with-friends stuff) and (long term) time constraints due to being on a visa. In both cases I had to hurry up, which in hindsight definitely took some enjoyment out of those parts. Monson to Finish in 6 days might have been an achievement, but it did sorta suck and resulted in me taking 2 pictures in the entire 100 miles. And longer stretches of that earlier in the hike would likely have had me out of the woods for good.
While I didn't have to slow down, I highly suspect that´s just as crap.
So first figure out someone who likes you quite a lot and/or owes you a big one. Then figure out the logistics (places/storage at home/Modularisation (because your diet will change massively)/maybe what not to maildrop), so that person has the easiest possible job of sending you whatever stuff you want that week to wherever you are.