View Full Version : Health Benefits of Thru-Hike Gain vs. Loss
irritable_badger
01-12-2006, 21:10
After spending an embarrassing amount of time reading the forums looking myself, I had to break down and ask. What health benefits can be expected after completing a thru-hike? What about damage to your health? If you read enough of the forums you begin to see a large number of fairly significant and quite a few odd physical injuries, malnutrition, permanent mutations, and multiple instances of psychological trauma. What about the positive effects of the journey, both physically and mentally? I feel certain the benefits outweigh most any possible negative implications but I am curious as to what people think those benefits are. What physical and mental benefits/damage did you obtain/sustain on your thru-hike?
With IB's permission, Im going to add to these questions...
Weight loss/gain? How much is expected? I would like to lose several pounds between GA and ME, but while consuming soooo many calories is that feasible?
Blue Jay
01-12-2006, 21:55
Exercise is always positive. You are doing exactly what you body evolved to do, carry weight over long distances.
Depends on you and what you weigh to start... Plan to lose if you are male, but you may gain if you are female (muscle mass). I was the same weight when I got off that I was when I started.
That said, the problems come after the hike. You are used to eating and it is quite difficult to stop after the trail. Most folks put on a good bit when they go home. I did!
I worry about diseases carried by ticks.
irritable_badger
01-12-2006, 22:21
I worry about diseases carried by people.
And I question the statement that exercise is always positive. I have some friends who are "Ultra Runners" (run 100+ miles in 24 hours without stopping) and they are all screwed up. Sure their cardio health is impeccable but their joints are falling apart at 38 years old...
After spending an embarrassing amount of time reading the forums looking myself, I had to break down and ask. What health benefits can be expected after completing a thru-hike? What about damage to your health? If you read enough of the forums you begin to see a large number of fairly significant and quite a few odd physical injuries, malnutrition, permanent mutations, and multiple instances of psychological trauma. What about the positive effects of the journey, both physically and mentally? I feel certain the benefits outweigh most any possible negative implications but I am curious as to what people think those benefits are. What physical and mental benefits/damage did you obtain/sustain on your thru-hike?
If you use common sense. Start slow. Build up to big miles. Eat enough and wisely. Listen and act on what your body tells you, rather than on preconceived goals, you'll almost always emerge from a thru hike in better health than when you started.
I asked my doctor, who had specialized a bit in outdoor medicine, if it was wise for me, a month shy of age 64, to attempt a 2,000 mile walk on the trail. His reply? "It's the best possible thing you could do. He was right. I left the trail healthier than I had been in years.
Thirteen years later I remain reasonably healthy, except for medicine induced fibrosis of the lungs. DEspite that, I can out walk and out work nine out of 10 people I meet who are anywhere near close to my age.
Nor did I begin with any special physical ability. I went to high school during World War II when the emphasis was on physical training and testing in preparation for service in the Army. I never played sports and ranked well towards the bottom of a class of 125 males. I was at a 60th anniversary high school reunion planning meeting a few weeks ago. Several of the school football and basketball stars of six decades ago hobbled in with their canes. All profesed they couldn't possibly walk a half mile in the homecoming celebration parade. I had walked five miles that morning on a rough woodland trail.
Exercise is invariably (well almost always, anyway) healthy. The more you exercise, the better off you'll be -- providing you use some common sense about it.
Weary
amoebagirl
01-13-2006, 02:53
I too am curious about weight loss. Alot of threads talk about trying to not lose weight...strange. I'd think that one of the benefits of a thruhike would be weight loss. In Bryson's book, he noted a successful thruhiker who did it solely to lose weight. I would appreciate answers to the following questions from those that completed a thruhike:
1. what were your pre and post weight?
2. Did you want to lose weight or stay the same?
3. If you didn't lose weight, did you at least lose fat while gaining muscle mass?
Thanks.
Lumberjack
01-15-2006, 13:48
Men lose more weight on the trail but gain it all back.
women offset the loss of body fat with a gain of muscle mass. they also are better at returning to a normal diet after the hike then men.
losses of 30 to 50 pounds are not uncommon.
Simply put your burning upwards of 4000 - 6000 calories per day and it is hard not to lose weight. In fact some lose too much weight and prematurely end their hike.
Lumberjack
01-15-2006, 13:55
One comment on health - many hikers and athletes screw themselves up with a no pain no gain mentality. They forget that all those little injuries will eventually come back and haunt them later on. Pain also means damage. Stop and fix the problem before it gets out of hand.
I too am curious about weight loss. Alot of threads talk about trying to not lose weight...strange. I'd think that one of the benefits of a thruhike would be weight loss. In Bryson's book, he noted a successful thruhiker who did it solely to lose weight. I would appreciate answers to the following questions from those that completed a thruhike:
1. what were your pre and post weight?
2. Did you want to lose weight or stay the same?
3. If you didn't lose weight, did you at least lose fat while gaining muscle mass?Thanks.
Almost everyone loses some weight, men more than women. Some lose way too much weight. "Tall drink of water" had lost 50 pounds by the time he quit in Virginia and he was skinny to start with.
One cook in his off-trail life, seemed to think that portions listed on the packages of Lipton meals were sacrosanct despite the energy expended on a thru hike. He would carefully split a package in half, while I ate the equivalent to two packages some meals. He was forced to quit also after weeks of losing almost a pound a day..
I lost three pounds or so in pre-hike walking and another eight pounds or so on the trail.
Weight loss is a comparable thing. Most of us are happy to lose some weight. The wisest of us try not to lose so much that our bodies are consuming muscle mass.
It takes a few weeks for the hunger to kick in, but when it does, wise hikers adjust their intake accordingly.
Weary
Blue Jay
01-15-2006, 21:57
And I question the statement that exercise is always positive. I have some friends who are "Ultra Runners" (run 100+ miles in 24 hours without stopping) and they are all screwed up.
I didn't say compulsive over exercise is always positive. We're talking about walking.
TRIPNATURE
01-16-2006, 19:27
I want to eventually hike the AT, but I am into body building/cardiovascular health, and I while I don't care how much fat I would loose/gain (most undoubtably loose), I would not like to loose any muscle. Also I know that any fat/muscle mass you loose on the trail comes back in the form of fat. Also on the trail you have to eat foods that I would consider to be very unhealthy. I eat only natural foods, mostly fresh vegetables/fruit, alot of fish, %100 Whole Grain, Natural juices, some fish and eggs, nuts, (The book Anti-Inflammation Zone will help you appreciate a good diet). I forget why I replied to this post, but I also am very interested in the health aspect of the trail.
BTW
I know from previous attempt to hike part of the AT (several years ago) that hiking to loose weight you must be careful, your burning 2000-3000 calories a day plus the 2000 calories a day you need to maintain your body, we'll just say 4000+/- a day and if you go onto the trail sticking to a diet, the calorie deficit will just keep building up and you will most likely be exhausted after a week or so.
Also I know that any fat/muscle mass you loose on the trail comes back in the form of fat.
Fat is fat, muscle is muscle, the cells do not change. Lost muscle mass will not be anything but muscle tissue, it is all in how you develop it. Same goes for fat cells, if you feed them, they will enlarge, if you "starve" them, they will shrink, but they will always and only be fat cells.
TRIPNATURE
01-16-2006, 21:15
***... ..............
***... ..............
I was puzzled by tripnature's comment a couple of posts back: "I forget why I replied to this post..., " But it does suggest a possible explanation for the above.
I advise care when dealing with some veggies.
Weary
If you are interested in the health effects of low-level starvation (and dehydration) plus a lot of exercise there are a lot of interesting studies on wrestling.
My summary of the main findings that I can remember--
-your body can get used to performing well while slightly malnourished
-While you may slowly lose strength 'in season,' you will gain it back very quickly after. Total strength gains outpace those who never 'starve.'
-the body uses fat to generate calories if you are ingesting food on a consistent basis, even if it is not enough food. If you rarely ingest food, then your body will use more muscle for calories.
Geohabit is correct--the amount of muscle and fat cells in your body is pretty much set--they simply expand or contract to fit your situaiton.
And from stuies on mice (and to a lesser extent on people)- what we consider low-level starvation can be healthy and extends the lifespan
TRIPNATURE
01-16-2006, 22:19
***.. your all crazy... fat comes from eating, your fat cells are made when u have fat, when you dont have fat, your body eats the fat cells (fat cells are regular cells that simply eat too much and are larger then other cells) muscle cells are simply cells that are alot strong then others. your body will also eat these,uscle cells but it takes energy to eat these cells since they fight back to keep from being eaten. so my thesis is this: on the trail you will loose fat and muscle, but as soon as you get back to eating, you will gain weight to the point wher you will weigh 20 pounds more then you weighed at the begining of the trail. as the rasta man bob marley says, if you get down and you quary every day, your singing prayers to the devil, woy woy wooo, help is on the way, woay woay woooaa. make way for the positive day, cause its a new day , new time , and its a new feeling , and its a new day , pickin up now, shala, chala , chala, oh ecks, a chala, a chala, o ecksa, a chala , a chala, o ecksas, rasta man vibration yea, positive, aya ney vibration yea, i eat ice, positive vibration yea, positive, pickin up, are u pickin up now, u pickin up,are u pickin up now, who who who chala, chala chala, oh ecksas, a jala , a jala, oh egsas, a jala , a jala, go texas
Dances with Mice
01-16-2006, 22:27
shala, chala , chala, oh ecks, a chala, a chala, o ecksa, a chala , a chala, o ecksas, rasta man vibration yea, positive, aya ney vibration yea, i eat ice, positive vibration yea, positive, pickin up, are u pickin up now, u pickin up,are u pickin up now, who who who chala, chala chala, oh ecksas, a jala , a jala, oh egsas, a jala , a jala, go texasRocks'n'Roots! Where have you been, man? We've been missing you.
Rocks'n'Roots! Where have you been, man? We've been missing you.
Now that's not nice. R'nR is not into those kinds of veggies. He's actually quite wise as those who listen, and reason, know.
I was hoping to lose 130 pounds on my thru hike........but I am sure she will figure out a way to call.
TRIPNATURE
01-16-2006, 22:46
well im sure you could loose a hell of alot of weight on the trail, just eat about 2000 calories a day , and you will loose at least half a pound a day
Trip--You are wrong. Check an anatomy and physiology textbook.
Dances with Mice
01-16-2006, 22:58
Now that's not nice. You are correct, sir. Tripnature, I apologize.
TRIPNATURE
01-16-2006, 23:12
listen ScottP you little college book i hate this world and all the little scips and scops and every little god damn thing!!
I was trying to make a joke.........girlfriend humor
Somebody needs a Xanex...
Xanex is for social anxiety....
Trip needs something and fast!
Trip needs something and fast!
....age will cure it! :banana Sue
Hikers get flabby-skinny, sprinters get hard-skinny. Thru-hiking and eating crap isn't good for your body. Bringing the rest of your bad habits (eating and otherwise) with you just makes it worse. You can get physical fitness benefits if you are out of shape to begin with but if you're in good or great shape to start, you'll be in worse shape after you're done, not better...Most guys get fat after hiking because the hiker style eating habits (anything, anytime...) don't fade so fast, but many do no exercise whatsoever ater they get back...next year at trail days tou wont recognize all the clean-shaven fat guys....
TRIPNATURE
01-17-2006, 01:46
thanks alot guys i am a recovering xanex addict and you just made me relapse....
bfanz man u make me very wary of hiking the AT because i am in top phsyical shape of my life and would not like to loose my cardiovascular stregnth (which might not be affected as much but would surely suffer somewhat) or my stregnth from muscle mass (as surely would suffer greatly from malnutrition and low level starvation) but 3-4 months of this might be easy to overcome assuming i come back to the same excersizing and eating i do now . think about it, alot of the top mountaineers in the world go on at least 3 months trips every year if not year round and most are in great shape . and most are very lean , not just "flabby skinny"
btw joking about xanex relapse and yes a xanex would help me relax right now but instead ill drink some kava extract and take some valerian root since they dont have any side effects and are natural
TRIPNATURE
01-17-2006, 01:49
and joking baout xanex addiction, although it is no joke and many people suffer from this. i would not recommend xanex to anyone, many people die from the withdrawls and while most do not die they are still terrible withdrawls.
nyushka42
01-17-2006, 15:34
I don't plan to loose much weight, but I do want to loose a lot of my fat. As is I weight WAY too much because of fat, but in my family we tend to weight more than we look (have a sister at 150+ pounds, 5'4, and she's a size 2!!!). So weight, not a big deal for me, but size is. Hope to go down several sizes and keep it there when I get off the trail (only doing GA to WVa this year, probably).
I don't plan to loose much weight, but I do want to loose a lot of my fat. As is I weight WAY too much because of fat, but in my family we tend to weight more than we look (have a sister at 150+ pounds, 5'4, and she's a size 2!!!). So weight, not a big deal for me, but size is. Hope to go down several sizes and keep it there when I get off the trail (only doing GA to WVa this year, probably).Just try to make as many calories as you can in the form of protien. There is protien powder that mixes with water as fruit punch...can mix it with other drink powders, too. Drink protein all day, like a gram-2grams of protein per pound of desired bodyweight. Read about diet and muscles in muscle mags and try to formulate a good diet. Gorp with lots of nuts is actually really good for you...loaded with EFA's and nutrients, high in good calories. Lots and lots of veggies, meats and whole foods when in town. Avoid the simple sugars and processed foods other hikers depend on...pop-tarts and such...It's expensive to eat right on trail but 90% of physical fitness is diet and the other 10% is busting your butt. Edit: Get good nutrient supplements, as well.
nyushka42
01-17-2006, 17:22
Hate pop-tarts, love gorp. :-D
Hate pop-tarts, love gorp. :-DVarying types of chocolate keeps it interesting...but that's another thread....Mabye it's time to start a "How to eat healthy on trail" thread...
Here it is.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=158269 - post158269
smokymtnsteve
01-17-2006, 18:00
Just try to make as many calories as you can in the form of protien. There is protien powder that mixes with water as fruit punch...can mix it with other drink powders, too. Drink protein all day, like a gram-2grams of protein per pound of desired bodyweight. Read about diet and muscles in muscle mags and try to formulate a good diet. Gorp with lots of nuts is actually really good for you...loaded with EFA's and nutrients, high in good calories. Lots and lots of veggies, meats and whole foods when in town. Avoid the simple sugars and processed foods other hikers depend on...pop-tarts and such...It's expensive to eat right on trail but 90% of physical fitness is diet and the other 10% is busting your butt. Edit: Get good nutrient supplements, as well.
actually excess protein is NOT needed,,,,too much protein in ur diet is hard on the kidneys,,,
most amerikans eat too much protein.
fats and complex carbs are what U need on the trail.
My studies in biology support Smokey Mountain Steve's most recent post. However, I know nothing about diabetes. Complex carbs (whole wheats) are better than simple carbs (sugars, white flours). A good majority of your calories should be from carbs. During cold weather, you will want to consume more fats, especially before sleeping.
Don't trust men's magazines. They are all worse than those pseudo-outdoor magazines that are just extended advertisements. They push products, routines, and diets that dont' work and/or are unhealthy. Try some basic biology and nutrition reading, not Dr. so and so's (who isn't a MD or diet expert) book selling his specific diet.
Skidsteer
01-17-2006, 22:13
My studies in biology support Smokey Mountain Steve's most recent post. However, I know nothing about diabetes. Complex carbs (whole wheats) are better than simple carbs (sugars, white flours). A good majority of your calories should be from carbs. During cold weather, you will want to consume more fats, especially before sleeping.
Don't trust men's magazines. They are all worse than those pseudo-outdoor magazines that are just extended advertisements. They push products, routines, and diets that dont' work and/or are unhealthy. Try some basic biology and nutrition reading, not Dr. so and so's (who isn't a MD or diet expert) book selling his specific diet.
Basic biology and nutrition texts are as inadequate( IMHO ) as Men's magazines for folks trying to maintain muscle mass. I've lifted weights for close to 3/4 of my lifespan. I'm 42 now; I have more muscle as a percentage of bodyweight than I had at age 22 and I say large amounts of protein are indispensable for the purpose.
Of course when I thru-hike, I won't be silly enough to worry about such things. I'll make it up later, God willing.:D
actually excess protein is NOT needed,,,,too much protein in ur diet is hard on the kidneys,,,
most amerikans eat too much protein.
fats and complex carbs are what U need on the trail.
You're right...but if you're taking effort to preserve muscle during weightloss/thruhiking you need to over-protien. Having plenty of good whole nutrients is best, but on trail you have to get creative. That's why gorp is great hiking food, full of good fats, protein and complex carbs well balanced.
In basic nutrition/biology books you will find: recommended percentages of carbs, protiens, and fats. However, there are modiications to this as a basic rule: there are also charts relating weight/muscle mass to ideal protien intake. Obviously a marathon runner and a bodybuilder need different diets, even if they burn the same amount of calories. While most americans do eat way too much protien, you will also find that people with a lot of muscle mass need more protien than you might think. The body can only absorb so much protien at a time, so protien supplements aren't always as helpful as one might think, and are rarely cost efficient (as compared to eating chicken).
My studies in biology support Smokey Mountain Steve's most recent post. However, I know nothing about diabetes. Complex carbs (whole wheats) are better than simple carbs (sugars, white flours). A good majority of your calories should be from carbs. During cold weather, you will want to consume more fats, especially before sleeping.
Don't trust men's magazines. They are all worse than those pseudo-outdoor magazines that are just extended advertisements. They push products, routines, and diets that dont' work and/or are unhealthy. Try some basic biology and nutrition reading, not Dr. so and so's (who isn't a MD or diet expert) book selling his specific diet.
When you are burning 2 to 3 times the normal caloric range, protien intake could become a factor.
If I recall correctly, your body will burn the carbs, fat stores and then the protien (muscle) in that order. If you have a low body fat to muscle percentage, you'd need be sure to eat enough carb and fat calories to compensate for the calories burned per day in order to avoid the protien (muscle) loss.
Original thread starter:
What physical and mental benefits/damage did you obtain/sustain on your thru-hike?
I would be interested in hearing other folks opinions on this as well. I've read so many different things, especially the psychological effects for some - mostly after stopping the hike. Any thru hikers out there to address the question from their standpoint?
Lone Wolf
01-18-2006, 09:38
Original thread starter:
I would be interested in hearing other folks opinions on this as well. I've read so many different things, especially the psychological effects for some - mostly after stopping the hike. Any thru hikers out there to address the question from their standpoint?
After my first thru-hike in 86 I was physically fine but mentally ***ed. I went into a funk, got tossed in jail one nite. The next day I decided to thru-hike again in 87. Gave me a goal. I've been trail trash ever since.
well thru the years of hiking I have learned not only to appreciate the trails but I have learned to be a better person,If a person takes care of their self then the mountians are their,when I first started hiking I was a wild man and I have since thru the years learned to controll my self alot better thanks to my faith,and many other things,Its amazing how much more my hiking exeperinces have been the last 3yrs have been.ky
icemanat95
01-18-2006, 11:08
thanks alot guys i am a recovering xanex addict and you just made me relapse....
bfanz man u make me very wary of hiking the AT because i am in top phsyical shape of my life and would not like to loose my cardiovascular stregnth (which might not be affected as much but would surely suffer somewhat) or my stregnth from muscle mass (as surely would suffer greatly from malnutrition and low level starvation) but 3-4 months of this might be easy to overcome assuming i come back to the same excersizing and eating i do now . think about it, alot of the top mountaineers in the world go on at least 3 months trips every year if not year round and most are in great shape . and most are very lean , not just "flabby skinny"
btw joking about xanex relapse and yes a xanex would help me relax right now but instead ill drink some kava extract and take some valerian root since they dont have any side effects and are natural
You will not lose cardiovascular health on a thru-hike. It's day after day of cardiovascular exercise. By the time you are done with a thru-hike you will be in extremely good cardio shape and could probably convert to running a marathon in very short order. You will lose muscle mass, no doubt about it, your body will get rid of what it doesn't need for the task at hand. By doing lots of isometric exercises, you can resist the losses, but there will be losses none the less.
If you really want to do a thru-hike, it won't matter to you, you'll just hike and deal with the other stuff later. If worrying about maintaining your physique is more important to you than a thru-hike, then you should just stop worrying about this altogether, stick to what you are doing and stay away from the long-distance hiking.
Natural/herbal remedies have their strengths and weaknesses, but assuming that something is safe just because it is natural is idiotic. Cyanide is naturally occurring and will kill you fast. Foxglove can be a beneficial heart medication or can kill someone in a matter of minutes. St. John's Wort can act as a fairly gentle anti-depressant, or, mixed with the wrong meds, can cause severe psychological side-effects. The other problem with natural meds is that you have no way of knowing the concentrations of material in them and what is in there besides what is on the label. In most cases this is not a huge issue as most of the major suppliers are pretty good about ensuring reasonable quality, but some of the foreign suppliers can be suspect.
Good luck with your decision.
If worrying about maintaining your physique is more important to you than a thru-hike, then you should just stop worrying about this altogether, stick to what you are doing and stay away from the long-distance hiking.
If you give yourself enough carbs and fat to cover the calories burned everyday you will NOT burn muscle mass.
If you give yourself enough carbs and fat to cover the calories burned everyday and supplement that with protein, you could actually gain muscle mass in the muscles you use for hiking which would make you a stronger, faster hiker.
If you give yourself enough carbs and fat to cover the calories burned everyday you will NOT burn muscle mass.
If you give yourself enough carbs and fat to cover the calories burned everyday and supplement that with protein, you could actually gain muscle mass in the muscles you use for hiking which would make you a stronger, faster hiker.
I'm not sure where one gets all this extra protein folks are talking about. Powdered milk, an occasional tuna, a few dehydrated and powdered soy beans, and a bit of chipped beef is about all the protein my back can stand.
Weary
I'm not sure where one gets all this extra protein folks are talking about. Powdered milk, an occasional tuna, a few dehydrated and powdered soy beans, and a bit of chipped beef is about all the protein my back can stand.
Weary
I used EAS protein powder. (Whey protien.) Chocolate flavor is good. They have vanilla too!
Runners will eat a lot of high carb foods before a race for an energy boost.
A lot of quick calories there to burn since the body burns carbs first.
Weightlifters will eat six times a day when they are bulking up. They also stress their muscles so they are in a constant state of recovery and eat high protein foods/supplements during this muscle stress/recovery to build muscle.
The point is, if you don't eat enough for the calories you burn in a day, and you have little body fat, you will lose muscle mass.
Blue Jay
01-19-2006, 21:47
St. John's Wort can act as a fairly gentle anti-depressant, or, mixed with the wrong meds, can cause severe psychological side-effects.
Most of what you said is exactly correct. This one however can only cause severe bull****itis. The the drug company that did this "study" has since admitted it was "without merit", another name for "faked data".
jmaclennan
01-19-2006, 22:30
i thru-hiked in '03, was in great shape going in; 28 year old male, 180 pounds at the time:
on the physical side: what happens to YOU on the trail will depend on MANY factors including, but not limited to: your fitness going in, how much your legs/joints/etc. are used to backpacking on rough terrain, packweight and footwear, nutritional intake along the way (as has been stated), how well you ease into the trail (not starting with overly high mileage for your current fitness level), your overall pace (miles/day, # of zero days). personally, i didn't lose any weight, but my body certainly changed. it took over a year for my feet to get back to normal and i rested a lot. probably should have worn something sturdier than running sneakers or got my packweight down (was between 25 and 35 lbs. depending). my cardiovascular fitness was better than ever at the end, but it went away cause i couldn't run after the trail due to my feet. i guess i should've biked or swam to keep it up til my feet got better. my leg muscles in particular were in very lean and hard after a few hundred miles or so (no surprise there).
mentally: i was pretty down for months afterward. just the other day i realized that i am still recovering from such an undertaking, although much of that is probably due to the fact that right after the trail i wrote my doctoral dissertation about long distance hiking on the AT (so i suggest you think twice before trying that). thus, my longer term AT-related mental difficulties are mostly related to that i think.
Footslogger
01-20-2006, 11:40
mentally: i was pretty down for months afterward. just the other day i realized that i am still recovering from such an undertaking, although much of that is probably due to the fact that right after the trail i wrote my doctoral dissertation about long distance hiking on the AT (so i suggest you think twice before trying that). thus, my longer term AT-related mental difficulties are mostly related to that i think.
==========================================
Graymatter ...
I prescribe a "Post Doc" re-hike of the AT to deal with the lingering mental issues (which I still suffer from myself)
'Slogger
corentin
02-08-2006, 01:47
the kava doesn't seem to be working for you dude..why not try some all natural poppy tea?