View Full Version : Modern Blue Blazing
ARambler
10-13-2016, 17:35
I left Whiteblaze for several years due to the negative posts, eg. Purist arguments. The "modern" Whiteblaze seems much better now, so I hope this thread does not degrade.
On the CDT, most hikers take alternative routes. Most alternatives are significantly shorter (but a few take longer.) Some of the longer ones are shorter distance but take longer due to more climb (and vise versa for the faster routes). It is typical for thru hikers to shorten their hike by 10%. I think most need to shorten their routes to finish within the short weather window. Other safety issues like the lack of water and frequent thunder storms affect route choice. Others want to stay with friends, or genuinely believe the official route has inferior scenery, or feel the shorter routes are needed for their budget (time?) constraints.
I'm thinking of hiking the AT with blue blazes and wonder how much faster a thru could be. If I can save 5% or more, I could schedule another hike. (Longer alternative might be the subject of a SEPARATE THREAD.)
I have 3 criteria for this thread:
A) It must be a continuous path; no yellow blazing.
B) Each alternative must be significantly shorter. I will set a goal of 1 +/- hr or more. An acceptable deviation might be to list 4 options that save 2 hr (to show that small choices add up.)
C) Reasonable to me: I would like to hike, i.e. no biking, skiing, or aqua-blazing. I do not like to hike paved roads, although short stretches might be considered if you would recommend it. Dirt roads or even bushwacks are ok.
I do not want to do anything dangerous or illegal, or environmentally unsound.
A brief description is ok, but I would like enough info to begin research. (At this stage, time estimates do not need to be precise.)
My List (with very rough time savings):
1) Horse Gap road walk? 1hr?
2) Bartram Trail from Wyah Bald to north of NOC??
3) Road walk from Clingmans Dome to Indian Gap when road closed?
4) Old trail from Laurel Falls to Watauga Lake around Pond Mt. 3 hr.
5) Creeper Trail 3 hr.
6) North of Mount Rodgers, bypass The Scales to Old Orchard Shelter. 3hr.
7) From Trents store, take the dirt road past Dismal Falls and continue (is private property an issue?) 2 hr.
8) From New River road walk past plant to trail to Rice Field? 1 hr?
9) Road walk various parts of the Blue Ridge Parkway.?
10) Bypass Three Ridges on the Mar Har Trail to Reeds Gap. 3 hr.
11) Hike to hogback rocks??? (I don't think this is any faster)
12) Road walk various parts of Skyline Drive.
13) A to Z Trail, Zealand to Mizpah 6 hr
14) Lake of the Clouds directly to Carter Hut. 10 hr.
15) Katahdin, Blueberry Trail sic.? 1hr?
Starchild
10-13-2016, 18:42
I think you can bypass McGaffies Knob / tinker cliffs and also a famous bald who's name eludes me just north of the Smokies.
Take the Kimsey Creek Trail and Long Branch Trail from Deep Gap to Glassmine Gap in North Carolina (the route passes near Standing Indian Campground). The AT route is around 18 miles but the shortcut appears to be less than half that (and flatter as well). A disadvantage would be missing the Mt. Albert Fire Tower which I think is one of the most scenic spots on the AT in NC/TN.
How one arranges their hikes depends on what one's goals are for starters. If it was my goal to hike the AT in a shorter period of time I wouldn't do it by shortening the length of it lopping off miles. I recognize little need for doing that within typical AT thru-hiking timeframes. I would apply Skurka's "How to do a faster hike" principles getting it done with that approach instead. And, if by some chance I failed doing the entire 2167 miles I would have reason to come back to enjoy what I do in the context of why I do it.
ARambler
10-13-2016, 20:05
How one arranges their hikes depends on what one's goals are for starters. If it was my goal to hike the AT in a shorter period of time I wouldn't do it by shortening the length of it lopping off miles. I recognize little need for doing that within typical AT thru-hiking timeframes. I would apply Skurka's "How to do a faster hike" principles getting it done with that approach instead. And, if by some chance I failed doing the entire 2167 miles I would have reason to come back to enjoy what I do in the context of why I do it.
I don't know (and you probably are not self aware enough to know) if this is empowering or hate speech. It is clearly off topic.
I am aware of the concept of section hikes; I have spent 20 years doing two of them. I know I can split a 12 month thru hike over 2 calendar years and this may be what I do for the second time.
I can hike 5+% faster, but not sure I want to; How fast do I need to hike to be an educated hiker. It would be easy to hike 5+ % faster, if I was supported. I would like that. Are you interested in helping me?
I have not said I want to lop off miles. In fact, I want to do more miles, either on other trails or by doing some longer blue blazes that I have in mind. Can you read?
I admit that variety is a goal for doing new trails. How many times have you hiked the trail as a purist? Your join date, and response make me question if you are a modern Whiteblazer.
gpburdelljr
10-13-2016, 20:22
I'm confused by "...I have not said I want to lop off miles..." in post #5, and "...each alternative should be significantly shorter...." in post #1. The words in post #1 sure sounds like lopping off miles.
I am thinking you should head down the Dry River Trail out of Crawford Notch, and then head straight for Pinkham. That would be about 9% faster, and you wouldn't have to deal its the hassles of Presidentials. The first miles out of the notch are very flat, so you might even get into double digits.
36527
jbbweeks
10-13-2016, 21:19
I like where this thread is headed. All should seek the path less traveled if the AT is to survive. Have an open mind!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dudeijuststarted
10-13-2016, 21:41
Consider a blue blaze down to Cade's Cove in the Smokies. I met a friend down there to hang out for a few days. It's a bear getting back up but Cade's Cove is super cool. Blasting through the Smokies IMO is a major waste of an opportunity.
Then of course you have the Virginia Creeper, which is used far more often than people admit, and also has a nice ice cream parlor in a Tom Sawyer-y little hamlet of a town which I think exemplifies the beauty of Appalachia. The AT straight NOBO of Damascus is kind of cool though too, but not as pretty as Creeper.
Some higher elevations have bad weather alternates which can come in handy if things get hairy. Not always less or more difficult, but generally safer from lightning.
Blue blazes are there for a reason. There are alot of things to be seen along the journey.
AfterParty
10-13-2016, 21:43
I'm all for this if some Blue blazing gets me better fishing opertunities.
Virginia Creeper Trail out of Damascus, for sure.
Alligator
10-13-2016, 22:18
It might be easier to think of this in miles than hours, because speeds vary by hiker. If you want to cut 5-10%, then you want to cut about 110-220 miles out. I don't know how fast you hike, but suppose you would take 150 days. Then you are looking to save 7.5-15 days? Look for those big arcs on the map where the trail curves around and see if there are straighter runs. It's an interesting question to answer.
I haven't read Dogwood's suggestion of Skurka, but I think where he is going with that is to be more efficient. Consider this: If you are a strong hiker averaging 20 miles per day, 5% further is only one mile. At a two mile per hour pace you would only have to hike another 30 minutes to hit that target. AT 15 mpd, it's only 3/4 of a mile. And that's just 22.5 minutes of walking. If you are sure about how long you want to take, divide the days into the trail length and get a daily average. Then add 5-10% onto that every day and you will be done with the extra time you want.
I mention some of this to try to dial in what you want to accomplish here. A 5-10% savings isn't exactly leaving a lot of hiking time in the context of a long distance hike, roughly 8-15 days of extra hiking. You might not even want to do that after hiking 2000 or so miles? Not to throw off the exercise here at all, because you are asking for alternate routes but you did ask it in the context of saving time.
gracebowen
10-13-2016, 22:48
It may not meet your criteria and i don't know where it is.
Ive read in alot of journals where the at leaves the road goes over a hill and rejoins the same road.
If i ever hike ill probably skip that part if i notice it in time.
ARambler
10-13-2016, 23:07
It may not meet your criteria and i don't know where it is.
Ive read in alot of journals where the at leaves the road goes over a hill and rejoins the same road.
...
Yes, Maybe. The Blue Ridge Parkway and Skyline Drive in VA may have shorter/faster alternatives. It would be road walking, but not too bad midweek, and probably save less than an hour, but there might be several of them.
Do you remember the state?
Uhh, hate speech...clearly off topic? Lighten up.
Here's what you said, "most hikers take alternative routes. Most alternatives are significantly shorter (but a few take longer.) Some of the longer ones are shorter distance but take longer(as in time, correct?) due to more climb (and vise versa for the faster routes). It is typical for thru hikers to shorten their hike by 10%. I think most need to shorten their routes to finish within the short weather window. Other safety issues like the lack of water and frequent thunder storms affect route choice. Others want to stay with friends, or genuinely believe the official route has inferior scenery, or feel the shorter routes are needed for their budget (time?) constraints.
I'm thinking of hiking the AT with blue blazes and wonder how much faster a thru could be. If I can save 5% or more, I could schedule another hike.
It seemed to me like you were making the case for considering a shorter AT hike or hiking possibly faster.
I'm not the only one who thought that was what you were considering. Then the snide remark follows, "and you probably are not self aware enough to know." I too now feel confused scratching my head.
I'm confused by "...I have not said I want to lop off miles..." in post #5, and "...each alternative should be significantly shorter...." in post #1. The words in post #1 sure sounds like lopping off miles.
Enjoy your hike. I have no more to offer you.
First off, I would like to appologize for the prior poster's micro aggression.
As you have observed, the new and improved Whiteblaze has done a rather good job weeding out HH (hiker hate), trolls and even IHS (internet hiker sarcasm)-- but there remain a basket of DSKIAs.
But getting back on track..
Should you miss the turn off or elect not to follow my advise on how to bypass the Presidentials, I would suggest you consider taking the Pine Link trail off MADISON and head directly into Gorham.
There is is a blue blaze trail leads out of Gorham on the other side of the river reconnecting to the AT in the Mahoosucs so the benefit is clear: You will have succeeded in avoiding the entire Carter-Moriah range.
While cutting off small sections has its benefits -- Mt Height in that same stretch comes immediately to mind -- I think the bigger chunks might b a better way for you to reach your objective.
Have fun with this!
I left Whiteblaze for several years due to the negative posts, eg. Purist arguments. The "modern" Whiteblaze seems much better now, so I hope this thread does not degrade...
Welcome back...sorry things were so bad back then.
I don't know (and you probably are not self aware enough to know) if this is empowering or hate speech. It is clearly off topic...
Hmmmm, 2nd post after your return and you attack someone who was simply attempting to answer the question you posted. Maybe your leaving WB several years ago had less to do with others...
peakbagger
10-14-2016, 07:09
Keeping political comments aside as this is straight forward thread, there are several blue blaze options in the whites that meet the OPs requirements . I don't advocate them but list them as an academic exercise.
Just south of Zealand Falls hut, take the A to Z trail up over the col between Tom and Willey to the Highland Center in Crawford's Notch, then take the Crawford path to the summit of Mt Pierce where the AT rejoins the Crawford Path. This avoids a flat but scenic section of the AT around Mt Willey and Ethan Pond. It also avoids the continuous steep climb up out of Crawford Notch with the subsequent scenic walk along the Webster Cliff trail, Mt Jackson and Mitzpah Spring Hut (There is spur trail off of Crawford Path that would allow Mitzpah Spring hut or the adjacent Nauman tentsite to be accessed). I would guess a savings of 1.5 days
There are several options off the section of Crawford path north of Lake of the Clouds Hut to cut over to Tuckerman's Ravine. Tuckerman's Ravine trail will then take the hiker down to the AMC Pinkham Notch facility and rejoin the AT. This skips the arguably most scenic above tree line continuous stretch of the AT. I would guess 2 days savings.
If the OP would accept former AT routes that have been replaced, the stretch from Mt Moriah to Mt Hayes in or near Gorham NH would most likely apply. The vast majority of thru hikers resupply in Gorham yet the AT was relocated around the town in the seventies. The old route through town still exists. On the summit of Mt Moriah, the hiker would head down off the ridge via the Carter Moriah Trail. There were several iterations of the AT through Gorham but the best one would be to head down Bangor Street a short distance and take a left off the street and then head over the Peabody River via the swinging bridge a cable supported bridge. The hiker would then take a right onto a town road (I dont have map handy with its name). Follow the road to Rt 16 and take a right onto RT 16. There is a sidewalk. At the junction of RT 2 you will pass an Inn with "The Barn" a long term traditional AT stop for thru hikers with very basic accommodations. Take a left onto main street and follow until the intersection where RT 2 goes west. You will pass Hiker Paradise another long term AT hostel that is less traditional then The Barn. Follow RT 16 north to a large railroad Trestle over the road. This is the start of the Mahoosuc trail. It is poorly marked for the first 1.5 miles but if you look at map the route is obvious. Cross the river under the trestle and then climb up a steep slope to the old railroad bed. Follow the railroad bed over another section of the river and take a sharp right and go back in the woods. After a short walk through the woods on you will come out on dirt road, take a right and follow the road paralleling the canal that feeds a hydro plant. Just prior to the Hydro station, the Mahoosus trail takes a sharp left off the road. There is AMC sign and then the trail is blazed to the intersection of the AT at the top of Mt Hayes. You will pass a spur to Mascot Pond which is very scenic spot and great place to camp. You also pass the open ledges on Mt Hayes which have a very nice view looking south to the Presidentials. This route is arguably more scenic than the current AT route around town and inevitably thru hikers end up going into Gorham for resupply anyhow. I would expect a half day savings for the trail routing and possibly and the possibility of 4 to 8 hour savings for not doing an out and back from the Rattle River AT crossing that most thru hikers would do.
Next time I'll take the Gulf Hagas trail but that adds 4.5 miles.
stumpknocker
10-14-2016, 07:38
Rambler....you listed way more alternatives in your first post than I could think of.
The few we talked about last week you have already listed, so I won't be of much help.
Maybe Lone Wolf will see this and help. I think he probably knows more blue blaze trails than anyone.
The second time I ran into him was north of Lehigh Gap somewhere. He and Gypsy were on a blue blaze that crossed the AT...we met at that junction.
Another time years later was when he met me at the end of one of my thru hikes. I had flipped from Catawba, VA. and he met me a few miles north of there. He wanted to take a blue blaze from there, but I wanted to stay on trail.
My point is that he KNOWS blue blazes along the AT!
The CDT is the one trail that really frees your thinking on walking trails and making your own route. I can see why Rambler wants to do this on the AT.
For those of you that don't know him, he has done that trail 3 times...along with the PCT and the AT at least three times each. In fact, I only know of two other people that have more miles hiked than Rambler does.
He knows he can make more miles on the actual trail each day, so he doesn't need those kind of suggestions. He's looking for alternative route suggestions that he may use.
The old AT used to go right into Monson, now it's a blue blaze. The fork (junction) is just a couple miles south of town. From a NOBO perspective: current (official) AT bears left, continues northwesterly for another couple miles and meets the highway west of town. To follow the old AT, just bear right at the fork. It leads straight into town.
Another nice blue blaze is the old Sherburne Trail from Killington (or is it Pico) Peak down to The Inn at the Long Trail. This was the AT until, oh, fifteen years ago. The current AT meets Rte. 4 a mile or two west of the inn. Again a bit of a mystery since many hikers like to stop at the Inn. That reroute was the consequence of years and years of lawsuits and negotiations.
Up in the White Mtns., you might want to skip the a$$ over teakettle climb over Wildcat. (One of the steepest climbs on the whole trail.) From Pinkham lodge, walk north on Rte. 16 for a couple of miles, just past Wildcat ski area, and take 19 Mile Brook Trail up to meet the AT near Carter Hut. 19 Mile Brook is a pleasant trail with some nice stealth camping opportunities (rare for the White Mtns.)
SWODaddy
10-14-2016, 08:15
Wouldn't it be faster to just take the Iron Mountain trail from Damascus to its intersection with the AT South of Mt. Rogers HQ if your #1 priority is saving time?
Seatbelt
10-14-2016, 09:16
From what I have heard and read, the Mau Har trail around Three Ridges might be shorter but is much more difficult thus taking longer. Have not hiked it myself, just going by what others have said.
squeezebox
10-14-2016, 10:19
I like the idea of blue blazing to take some of the stress off of the AT. But for many it's about calling yourself an AT thru hiker. IMHO that requires a purist attitude.
Up in the White Mtns., you might want to skip the a$$ over teakettle climb over Wildcat. (One of the steepest climbs on the whole trail.) From Pinkham lodge, walk north on Rte. 16 for a couple of miles, just past Wildcat ski area, and take 19 Mile Brook Trail up to meet the AT near Carter Hut. 19 Mile Brook is a pleasant trail with some nice stealth camping opportunities (rare for the White Mtns.)
While I think my plan to skip the Carter-Moriah range altogether is more time efficient, I do see merit in your approach-- if one's schedule allows.
I might modify it a bit, however.
Why not head from the Osgood Tentsite up towards Dolly Copp CG? That trail would drop you out closer to the 19 Mile Brook TRail, cut out more miles, and allow the OP to bypass the crows in Pinkham Notch.
Better still, he could head up to the AT via the Imp trail for an even shorter route.
Still think my idea of bypassing the C/M range is more to the point, but with this alternative you could bypass Gorham if you wanted.
Once you get to Route 2 and cross the river near the Hostel, you could enjoy a nice country road walk rather than turning back into the woods. Just keep on the road until shortcut blue blaze up to Gentian Pond Shelter.
From there I think one could find a way to bypass the Mahoosic Notch by using Success Pond Road-- not sure, but that would be a good strategy for Cutting out some miles, I think. Added benefit-- no Arm, and the extra pace one picks up on a road walk but without hard pavement doing a job on your feet.
I don't know (and you probably are not self aware enough to know) if this is empowering or hate speech. It is clearly off topic.
I am aware of the concept of section hikes; I have spent 20 years doing two of them. I know I can split a 12 month thru hike over 2 calendar years and this may be what I do for the second time.
I can hike 5+% faster, but not sure I want to; How fast do I need to hike to be an educated hiker. It would be easy to hike 5+ % faster, if I was supported. I would like that. Are you interested in helping me?
I have not said I want to lop off miles. In fact, I want to do more miles, either on other trails or by doing some longer blue blazes that I have in mind. Can you read?
I admit that variety is a goal for doing new trails. How many times have you hiked the trail as a purist? Your join date, and response make me question if you are a modern Whiteblazer.Comes on here saying he left the forum several years ago because of the negativity...comes back and posts this. Maybe the reason the negative posts stopped is because you left.
this is an interesting idea, but to me it presents a couple of issues in practice-
there really arent many big chunks to by pass. the 2 or 3 obvious ones are all already under discussion. the main issue with this is, i think, theyre the areas one would be least inclined to want to skip. the parts that more people would view as skippable there simply is no way to shorten them. alternate routs sometimes, but these are if anything longer, not shorter.
theres probably a few dozen places where you can save a mile or two and not miss anything exciting, but at the end of the hike that has accomplished what exactly?
is the CT mohwak trail longer or shorter than the current AT route? i forget. if shorter, thats one spot where you might improve things and make it shorter.
Expanding on earlier suggestions, you could pick up some miles by dropping down into the Pemi after climbing Liberty (Better still Mt Flume) and thus avoid the crowded Franconia Ridge altogether.
The route could be externded rather easily to avoid the Presidentials by way of the Dry River Trail I mentioned earlier, or the Davis Path.
If done right you should really be able to make up some time, and yet still walk a continuous line. Since some of these trail don't connect to the AT directly I am not sure they are all blue, however.
Is that important?
I think you might also want to Google up Success Pond Road. Not sure how it will help, but I have to think it could be a help.
ARambler
10-14-2016, 14:07
The old AT used to go right into Monson, now it's a blue blaze. The fork (junction) is just a couple miles south of town. From a NOBO perspective: current (official) AT bears left, continues northwesterly for another couple miles and meets the highway west of town. To follow the old AT, just bear right at the fork. It leads straight into town.
Another nice blue blaze is the old Sherburne Trail from Killington (or is it Pico) Peak down to The Inn at the Long Trail. This was the AT until, oh, fifteen years ago. The current AT meets Rte. 4 a mile or two west of the inn. Again a bit of a mystery since many hikers like to stop at the Inn. That reroute was the consequence of years and years of lawsuits and negotiations.
Up in the White Mtns., you might want to skip the a$$ over teakettle climb over Wildcat. (One of the steepest climbs on the whole trail.) From Pinkham lodge, walk north on Rte. 16 for a couple of miles, just past Wildcat ski area, and take 19 Mile Brook Trail up to meet the AT near Carter Hut. 19 Mile Brook is a pleasant trail with some nice stealth camping opportunities (rare for the White Mtns.)
I hiked thru Monson and north on the road in ca. 1982. I don't think the old town routes to Monson, Stratton or Gorham would save much time. The old route north of Gorham might be used with some options.
Yes, the Pico Peak route is probably in the top three blue blazes with the Creeper and Mau Har. (btw: I will lower my time savings for the Mau Har due to the rocks)
Everyone, thanks for all of the input on the White Mt. Many of the options are mutually excusive. I agree that skipping Wildcat should be a priority. I would like to find something better than walking 16 from Pinkham to
Gorham. Maybe hiking the AT backwards to Osgood would help. I like the looks of the Nelson Crag trail to Osgood to Dolly Copp.
No one mentioned Lonesome Lake to Greenleaf Hut.
ARambler
10-14-2016, 14:36
Expanding on earlier suggestions, you could pick up some miles by dropping down into the Pemi after climbing Liberty (Better still Mt Flume) and thus avoid the crowded Franconia Ridge altogether.
The route could be externded rather easily to avoid the Presidentials by way of the Dry River Trail I mentioned earlier, or the Davis Path.
If done right you should really be able to make up some time, and yet still walk a continuous line. Since some of these trail don't connect to the AT directly I am not sure they are all blue, however.
Is that important?
I think you might also want to Google up Success Pond Road. Not sure how it will help, but I have to think it could be a help.
Thanks for all of your leads. Are you suggesting the Success Pond Road to Mahoosuc Notch of all the way to Grafton Notch? It looks like it starts pretty far north of Gorham.
On the Pine Link suggestion, would you hike down to Dolly Copp and up 16 to Gorham? or up the Imp Trail? or?
On Dry River, it looks like the A-Z trail is shorter, even hiking to Lake of the Clouds. How much faster is Dry River?
Thanks for all of your leads. Are you suggesting the Success Pond Road to Mahoosuc Notch of all the way to Grafton Notch? It looks like it starts pretty far north of Gorham.
On the Pine Link suggestion, would you hike down to Dolly Copp and up 16 to Gorham? or up the Imp Trail? or?
On Dry River, it looks like the A-Z trail is shorter, even hiking to Lake of the Clouds. How much faster is Dry River?
Please think of those leads more of as ideas than specific directions.
Success Pond Road starts in Berlin. We used it several times years ago to get up to the AT for short loops in the Mahoosucs, so I was thinking you might be able to drop down to it from the AT. A map would probably give you the best answer for that one. It would be a very ugly route compared to the AT, but I suspect you know that already.
I have never hiked Pine Link-- I was thinking it connected to trails that got you to Gorham, but on reflection you might need to hitch from 16. There are a bunch of trails fairly near Dolly Copp to the AT. Like Rafe said, the 19 Mile Brook trail is a piece of cake -- it's the one everyone uses to snowshoe into Carter Hut. Easy. Imp would take you farther down the AT. Cutting out Pinkham Notch would not be a loss unless you wanted a shower.
THE A-Z trail would better meet your criteria if the goal is to do the Presidentials.
We have done a loop up to Nauman and Lakes starting from the Dry River Trail, but as a stand alone hike. A good bit of he Dry River Trail is surprisingly flat. The reason I mentioned it was that it should allow you to piece a path together with other trail that would allow you to make it to Pinkam Notch without doing the Presidentials.
I think you would come out near the Dry River Trail head is you took low route throug the Pemi Wilderness Area, rather than along he ridge.
Again,
Lone Wolf
10-14-2016, 18:04
Wouldn't it be faster to just take the Iron Mountain trail from Damascus to its intersection with the AT South of Mt. Rogers HQ if your #1 priority is saving time?
yes.........
First off, I would like to appologize for the prior poster's micro aggression.
As you have observed, the new and improved Whiteblaze has done a rather good job weeding out HH (hiker hate), trolls and even IHS (internet hiker sarcasm)-- but there remain a basket of DSKIAs....
Oops, I think you just offended someone with your own micro aggression.
You doing it is OK though because... you are a defender of all things right, non sexist, intelligent, non racist, promoting free speech, non gender specific, tolerant,,,,,?
There was nothing to apologize for Rick. We don't have the right not to he offended. If I had done something wrong I could have and would have apologized for myself and the forum.
Hikingjim
10-14-2016, 19:30
you could have a look at something like the nat geo maps for each section and research which blue blazes you want to do. they're everywhere.
mau har trail in VA that someone mentioned is very scenic and has a bit of scrambling, etc, and a great waterfall. It avoids another "ridge climb", cuts off 3.5 miles or so, and mixes things up. not that much faster, but a bit
every area seems to have obvious options if you have detailed maps. another example is sherburne pass to inn at long trail in vermont which some people take instead and used to be the AT anyway (I think)
When I was doing a section in VA, I took some random blue blaze trails out of towns to rejoin the trail (instead of shuttling to/from town), etc, and made good use of detailed maps to vary my route
peakbagger
10-14-2016, 19:39
I was sticking to no road walks, someone mentioned Pinkham to Carter notch to cut out the wildcats. I can further that one. There is no need for a significant road walk, the hiker could go south bound on the AT which is actually compass north on the AT (old Jackson Road), into the Great Gulf and then out via Great Gulf trail. From there cross the road to Camp Dodge (the AMC facilty on RT 16), there is a short logging road that connects up with the southern branch of the Imp trail, From there hike up to the junction with the North Carter trail and then intersect the AT. This skips the wildcats, Carter Dome, Mt Hight, South and middle Carter. easily a half days savings.
With respect to Pine Link down off Madison to Gorham, the trail crosses the Dolley Copp road and the normal trail head. It actually keeps going and goes over Pine Mtn, then down into Gorham.
Oops, I think you just offended someone with your own micro aggression.
You doing it is OK though because... you are a defender of all things right, non sexist, intelligent, non racist, promoting free speech, non gender specific, tolerant,,,,,?
There was nothing to apologize for Rick. We don't have the right not to he offended. If I had done something wrong I could have and would have apologized for myself and the forum.
Of course.
I had hoped my own sarcasm would have been obvious.
:D I'm not offended, not worth going through life having a sense of entitlement not to be offended. I have no need to perceive myself as a victim or push an agenda of victimology. You did not invade my "safe space." I'm not a precious little snowflake. My backbone is strong. I take personal responsibility for my actions. I have enough self awareness to know this.
ARambler
10-25-2016, 19:48
A little more research.
I have looked at the interactive AT map. I found this map does a poor job of showing alternate trails, e.g. the Kimsey Creek Trail is not shown.
Many parts of the old AT are on the USGS maps, but it is difficult to determine which trails are still being maintained.
I think there may be some options in the south half of the 100 mile wilderness. So, it would be very helpful to have up to date maps of the dirt roads or, better yet, actual reconnaissance of alternatives.
So, hiking out of Monson via some dirt roads may be much faster than the AT even if they are longer. Therefore, it may be faster to hike into Monson on the old AT. I'm going to need a better lead to estimate savings, if any.
The Mohawk Trail is significantly longer.
Yes the AT is on a couple ridges (north of McAfee Knob, and South of Duncannon) that bend back on themselves, but I don't see good shortcuts.
I think very long alternatives, that probably only save a little time, should just be considered alternatives. I'm thinking of the Iron Mt Trail and the Bartram Trail.
I'm going to drop 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 11, 12 and 15, from calculations and just assume there is likely one day, or up to 20 mile of savings in short options, but I would probably never do all of them.
I have added the following, listed south to north:
16) Kimsey Creek Trail.
17) From the Hamburg reservoir (north of Port Clinton) there is a bypass of the Pinnacle and the Priest to Eckville.
18) From Kent CT, it would be much faster on Skiff Mt Rd/River Road. I'm not sure how much traffic Skiff Mt Rd has. This would be a substitute some of the road walk that most do back to the trail from Kent.
19) It would be much faster to bypass Mt Stratton via the Stratton Pond Trail.
20) Old AT on Pico Peak.
21) Lonesome Lake to Greenleaf Huts, on to Lafayette.
22) Success Pond Road from ?? Carlos Col. sic to Grafton Notch.
Finally, I note that I would want to stay at many of the towns weather or not I take the shorter alternatives. If all town stops were fixed, I speculate that 3 of four alternatives might lead to a longer nearo in town, and one alternative would get me to town a day early and eliminate a nearo. The average effort per day stays the same in the long run, but in reality, the overall time savings could be shorter or longer than the sum of the alternatives.
Similarly, issues with limited campsites e.g. in the Whites, a short alternative many lead to a shorter day, or allow a significantly longer day to reach another campsite.
Continuing this speculative example, if I'm strong enough to give up time in town, I could stay on the AT for many alternatives, stay in the same town, and just use the alternative that get me to town a day early.
This hybrid would be just as fast but would not miss nearly as much.
Of course, there are many towns, so if I get to town early in the day, I can hike to the next one.
peakbagger
10-26-2016, 09:49
The Success Pond Road hike is quite out of the way. Its quite dusty in the summer as ATVs, motocross bikes and speeding vehicles create a permanent dust cloud along the traveled portion. The eastern end is closed due to washout of bridge, the alternative road route heads a few miles north before it ends up on RT 26. I expect you could walk the closed section of the road and the crossing of the washout would be pretty trivial in the summer.
Wild Bill and I walked some logging roads in the neighborhood around Trents' Store and Woods Hole hostel. I forget the exact trajectory of our transgression. Maybe a day's worth of road walking. Rained like h3ll that week and we wanted a break from the wet gloomy woods.
If you wanted to go retro, you could search for faded blazes and trail markers while walking along the soon to be forgotten Cumberland Valley Road Walk:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-70920.html