View Full Version : Wind generators in Dauphin Co. PA?
The Governor of PA announced today that $360,295 will be alloted to fund a feasibilty study for wind generators in the DeHart Dam Watershed. The DeHart dam is only about one mile from the AT, between Peters & Stony Mountains. Is this something to worry about?
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/pollprev/PA_Energy/PAENERGY/PDF_files/PEDApress_release_011106.pdf
fiddlehead
01-14-2006, 01:05
Let's see? free wind, or coal burning generating plants?
Sounds like an AWESOME Thing to me.
Ever wonder why you can't eat the fish in the US anymore? burning coal has a lot to do with it. (I come from Sch county PA, about 20 miles from DeHart dam and we have many coal burning plants around there.
I imagine folks here will be bitchin about the view.)
Where i live in Phuket, Thailand 8 months out of the year, we have a wind turbine about 200 metres away from my house. The locals here are proud of the fact that we are using energy created without pollution. (And we love our fresh fish ) (I believe it is a big reason why the Thai women are so beautiful) (eating fish and living in a clean environment for those who will disagree)
I've read that wind generators kill a lot of birds ( I would have to look for the documentation on this, if anybody wants to challenge it ) but I can't believe that they would kill as many birds and other animals as Exxon alone has, over the years. So maybe it's a good trade off. I guess I'd like wind turbines in my neighborhood better than a coal or oil burning plant.
I agree that Thai women are great beauties, but Cambodian women can be real knockouts, too. Of course, they're nowhere near American girls.
digger51
01-16-2006, 18:40
Lets see...pollution killing birds, fish, plants, and humans vs wind with a few birds flying into the windmills. Seems like no contest to me. Bring on the wind. Since I see many towns and roads and such while hiking, I think I can put up with some windmills.
Footslogger
01-16-2006, 18:43
I think they're getting ready to make them the state tree out here in Wyoming. They seem to multiply on thier own.
'Slogger
Doesn't any one care about the eye sore about all those tall towers on the landscape that can be seen for miles around? Are wint power towers any more benign than cell phone towers? I don't think so.
So many speak of how wonderfully benign these things are.. but what about the asthetics on the landscape? Isnt part of the reason we hike in the first place to see nature unspoiled???
And speaking of cell towers..they are such a blight in my view..I REFUSE to own a cellular phone!
David
Footslogger
01-16-2006, 19:03
And speaking of cell towers..they are such a blight in my view..I REFUSE to own a cellular phone!
David
=====================================
It's true that some of the towers are monstrosities ...but I wouldn't go so far as refusing to own a cell phone for that reason alone.
'Slogger
Pedaling Fool
01-16-2006, 19:51
...Where i live in Phuket, Thailand...big reason why the Thai women are so beautiful)...
I've been all over the world, including Phuket. The most beautiful women are in the USA. Although, South America is a damn close second.:D
Lets see...pollution killing birds, fish, plants, and humans vs wind with a few birds flying into the windmills. Seems like no contest to me. Bring on the wind. Since I see many towns and roads and such while hiking, I think I can put up with some windmills.
OK with you if we compromise by avoiding putting up windmills near bird migration routes instead? I think shrugging off environmental concerns is how we killed all those birds, fish, plants and humans in the first place.
... So many speak of how wonderfully benign these things are.. but what about the asthetics on the landscape? Isnt part of the reason we hike in the first place to see nature unspoiled??? ...
A lot more of nature gets spoiled by fossil fuels and industries that pollute air and water. Frankly, I'm encouraged when I see wind farms. I don't have any aesthetic problems with them. I think shelters, privies, fire towers, housing developments, power line cuts, and Palmerton are uglier. Switchbacks and water bars aren't "natural". Aren't a lot of the balds down south the result of farming, not nature? Everything is a compromise.
The press release doesn't say exactly where this "30 megawatt wind energy project" is going to be located in relation to the AT. The DeHart Dam, which is the City of Harrisburg's water supply, is located in Clarks Valley, along Route 325. The AT runs along the ridge, above and to the south of the dam (to your right if you're SOBO), drops into Clarks Valley at the west (trail south) end of the dam, crosses Route 325, and then climbs Peters Mountain.
In other words, the dam itself is on the floor of the valley. Looking at the map, it doesn't look like the city owns any land on the ridges. Don't you have to put these windmills on ridges?
I smile a little every time I see a windmill, because it shows that there are people out there that do care about the environment.
Of course, I would like it to be done with out building 20 miles of road thru a forest that will in turn open it up to more roads and development.
I'm not a windmill placement engineer, but a valley can be a good place to put a windmill if the valley passes thru the range. Its kind of a funnel effect.
Kirk
Footslogger
01-17-2006, 11:18
[quote=kab21]I smile a little every time I see a windmill, because it shows that there are people out there that do care about the environment. ========================================
Ya know ....I feel the same way. Why not harness a power source that naturally ocurring and on the surface.
'Slogger
Evidently the City of Harrisburg owns land on the ridges of both Stony and Peters Mountains:
"The one-year study will require the placement of a temporary tower on Harrisburg Authority land that spans the crests of Peter's Mountain and Stony Mountain, where elevations range from 1,400 to 1,600 feet.
The Rush Twp. property is mostly remote mountain land, but is close to Fort Indiantown Gap and the Appalachian Trail."
Full Story Here (http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1137493317203951.xml&coll=1)
digger51
01-18-2006, 19:51
Stupe...go out and find some windmills and count the number of dead birds lying around them. I am fairly sure there are less dead birds than dead fish in the rivers and dead people because of air pollution. I would have a windmill in my back yard if I could to save on fossile fuel use.
Put me down for windmills, and american women....especially women in the northeast. There would be alot of dead birds around here though. We have a bird problem in north Texas
Jack Tarlin
01-18-2006, 20:34
Enough with the "Windmills kill birds!" nonsense. The American Bird Conservancy feels that the greatest threat to American birds is urban sprawl, loss of habitat, and pollution. The conspicuously do NOT mention windmills as a major threat. Oh, they also point out that the domestic house cat is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of birds annually. Compared to this, bird fatalities near windmills becomes irrelevant.
Truly concerned environmentalists should be more concerned about preventing cat proliferation rather than preventing an increase in the number of wind turbines. You wanna save the birdies, it's time to rein in the kitties!
Fiddlehead's right. I'd rather live, or hike, near a wind farm than a coal plant or a nuclear reactor.
(P.S. Before I hear from outraged cat owners, be aware that the second paragraph was a joke......I'm actually very fond of kitties. Dogs, however, are another matter entirely!)
smokymtnsteve
01-18-2006, 22:07
I gotta dog that likes cat...he just loves to eat them..
I don't think I would like to see a windfarm sticking up anywhere and spoiling the view of whatever I found beautiful and wanted to look at. However I also think that would be much preferred over seeing the smokestacks of a fossil fuel power plant sticking up spoiling the view. Not to mention wind is free, everlasting, and non-polluting, and coal, oil and gas are costly, limited, and polluting. We as a nation keep demanding more energy. Gotta come from somewhere.
Harrisburg Patriot editorial opposing Clark's Valley wind farm (http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1137838814306280.xml&coll=1)
fiddlehead
01-25-2006, 23:50
The argument was brought up to me by an engineer about the supposed fact that windmills kill so many birds when i was with 2 other PCT thru-hikers. I asked them both how many dead birds they remember seeing when hiking thru all those windmill farms in CA. Neither those two , nor I remembered seeing ANY.
It sounds like an unfounded argument to me.
So I'm reading thru my new book 'The Skeptical Enviromentalist, measuring the real state of the world (2001)' and the author (Bjorn Lomborg) has found some statistics on # of dead birds due to windmills.
The Denmark govt est that 30,000 birds died each year due to windmills. By increasing the # of windmills in the US as compared to Denmark, he estimates 67,000 bird deaths per year. This compares to 57 millions bird deaths to cars and 97.5 million bird deaths due to plate glass (assuming windows).
In total 0.04% of the worlds power comes from wind energy, so as everyone knows wind power isn't a terribly significant source. But I prefer windmills to fossil alternatives for so many reasons.
Kirk