View Full Version : Bear bag verses canister
What do you use a bear canister or bear bags for storing food overnight ?
or do you use both ?
what is the advantages of one over the other ?
MuddyWaters
10-24-2016, 22:07
What do you use a bear canister or bear bags for storing food overnight ?
or do you use both ?
what is the advantages of one over the other ?
Almost no one uses cannisters on AT, because heavy and not required except 5 mile section in spring.
That said, i met a woman last week carrying TWO cannisters with 8 days food. Loosely packed. This is pretty rare.
The advantages of cannister is simple, and they work. I love mine, but only use it where required due to wt and bulky shape. I wish was required everywhere. Best for wildlife, and would keep a lot of people out of woods.
Ouse a canister as required mainly the West Coast (Sierras, JMT) and some sections on the AT as required.
Rest of the time I hang my food.
Unless the bear rolls my canister off the side of the mountain I know my food will always be there.
I periodically have midnight doubts when I hang.
But I'm a novice hiker with only 1000 miles under my belt.
I haven't lost any food to bears either way so far.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
saltysack
10-24-2016, 22:20
Food bag makes a great pillow......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sarcasm the elf
10-24-2016, 22:26
Food bag makes a great pillow......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I always found mine too lumpy to actually be used as a pillow, mostly because of the peanutbutter jar and other hard plastic containers...
Back to the original question, probably less than 2% of A.T. Hikers use a bear canister, they just aren't needed. Properly hanging or keeping your food attended is sufficient and many established campsites in problem areas already have bear boxes/poles/cables installed.
thank you everyone ..... I will look into a bear bag over the canisters . :)
Sarcasm the elf
10-24-2016, 22:50
thank you everyone ..... I will look into a bear bag over the canisters . :)
If you search youtube for "PCT Method" you will get several good tutorials for how to hang a bag correctly. Definitely Worth watching.
These days I use a canister where it is required and in grizzly country. I hang a food bag everywhere else.
nsherry61
10-25-2016, 08:32
These days I use a canister where it is required and in grizzly country. I hang a food bag everywhere else.
I would think that bear bagging would work better for grizzly's than for black bears since grizzlies don't climb . . . unless of course, your grizzly country is tundra and there aren't any trees over 8' tall.
Always bear bag instead of canister unless you are required to use canister. On the AT you can hike through most of the bear can areas so it's not an issue.
Sierra through Yosemite is definite bear can country. A canister is a pain. Avoid whenever possible. Just learn how to hang a bag properly.
Sandy of PA
10-25-2016, 08:38
I am one of the 2% that uses a bearcan on the AT. I suck at throwing rocks at the best of times and especially when tired. I also like to stealth camp just before dark and not having to seek the perfect tree is a bonus. I sleep with my food, but it is inside an odor blocking bag, inside a bearcan, and just outside my tent. I do not feed wildlife even by accident.
nsherry61
10-25-2016, 08:47
. . . A canister is a pain. Avoid whenever possible. Just learn how to hang a bag properly.
Hanging a bear bag is a pain, especially after dark. Hanging a bear bag is impossible in some alpine areas where there aren't any places to do it.
Just learn how to carry a bear canister properly and quit wining about the little extra weight and enjoy the ease of evening food storage, the comfy seat the canister provides along with the convenient rodent protection.
Full disclosure: I generally sleep with my food, hang it if I have any concern about bears and there is a place to do so, use a bear canister when required and dream about experimenting with an Ursack which I haven't broken down and purchased yet, and maybe never will.
Have fun. Stay mostly safe, but not too safe, because then you'd never get out of bed in the morning.
allmebloominlife
10-25-2016, 10:44
I have both but prefer the bear bag. I did a trip out West last year and the canister was required. Makes a great camp chair though. Some bear canisters have a Fry Pan for a lid. Bonus!!
The only times that I haven't hung my food on the AT, I slept with it. Never once was I harassed by even the smallest creature. If you cant find a place to hang your bag, you may have picked a bad spot... otherwise, just sleep with the food. Talking about the AT here.
In the Sierras, especially around Yosemite, or in WY near Yellowstone, I would always say bear can. Otherwise... bear bag it... and if you're worried about odors, wrap the stinky stuff in an OP sack.
slbirdnerd
10-25-2016, 11:50
Great bear bag PCT hang instructions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgBLDMuPuvE
Great bear bag kit:
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/bear_bag.shtml
If you search youtube for "PCT Method" you will get several good tutorials for how to hang a bag correctly. Definitely Worth watching.
While the PCT Method has its merits, I prefer a 2 rope system. The first rope has a carabineer on one end which is thrown over a branch. The second rope is looped through the carabineer. Then the first rope is hoisted and tied off. The second rope is attached to the food bag and then hoisted up.
The advantage of this method is NO DAMAGE TO THE TREE from rope friction. While saving the tree, it also makes hoisting the food bag easier as the paracord is sliding over a smooth carabineer not the rough tree bark. I have even seen this method using a small light weight pulley verse a carabineer to hoist the food bad.
Some might complain that this requires two the amount of rope. While that is true, I am not an ultralight hiker and the additional 3.6 oz of weight it worth it for such an easy method. Next time you are in the wood, start looking at the the damage to the trees near shelters from all of the food bags getting pulled over the branches. I think you will be surprised.
I have not used a bear can, but may try it one day for the ease of use.
nsherry61
10-26-2016, 20:39
While the PCT Method has its merits, I prefer a 2 rope system. . .The advantage of this method is NO DAMAGE TO THE TREE . . .
One rope, leverage advantage, tree safe. . (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/112951-New-safer-amp-easier-bear-bag-hanging-method?highlight=). (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/112951-New-safer-amp-easier-bear-bag-hanging-method?highlight=)check it out (http://http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/112951-New-safer-amp-easier-bear-bag-hanging-method?highlight=) . (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/112951-New-safer-amp-easier-bear-bag-hanging-method?highlight=) . .
If the above link doesn't work, just find my profile and look at started thread titled "New safer & easier bear-bag hanging method".
Berserker
10-28-2016, 12:20
I use both. Normally I carry a bear bag and hang, or sometimes just use it as a pillow...I actually don't really use it as a pillow...I usually pack everything up in a trash bag, put that in the sil bag and then put that in my pack inside my tent. Yeah, I know that's not kosher by some people's standards, but I honestly just get lazy sometimes. Most areas that actually have bear problems either have cables, poles or boxes and then I just use those rather than hanging or putting it in my tent.
As for the canister, I originally bought it for a hike I did in the Sierras, and now I just like to carry it on some trips. It is heavier, but it's a lot less hassle (place food inside, close and set somewhere) and makes a great camp chair.
August W.
10-28-2016, 18:53
[QUOTE=penny b;2100258
what is the advantages of one over the other ?[/QUOTE]
A fed bear is a dead bear, and the advantage of a bear can over a bag is that when a bear tries to chew the canister the bear gets no food reward. When a bear chews on a bear bag it can get a food reward by having odor and flavor pass through the porous bag. I believe this is why the parks with high bear density prefer bear canisters over bags. A backcountry ranger or permit officer could verify. I would love the weight savings of a bear bag instead of my canister in required areas but my conscience won't allow it.
Is it necessary to use an odor blocking bag with a canister? If so, what is an appropriate bag and are bears more attracted to the smell when not using such a bag?
I'm starting to think that a bear canister that can double up as a camp chair compared to my tripod stool that can't be used for anything else might not be such a bad idea. And the canister only weighs a few ounces more than my stool. I know a lot of people find them bulky and awkward in their packs but I don't see that as a big deal.
August W.
11-18-2016, 19:38
Is it necessary to use an odor blocking bag with a canister? If so, what is an appropriate bag and are bears more attracted to the smell when not using such a bag?
I'm starting to think that a bear canister that can double up as a camp chair compared to my tripod stool that can't be used for anything else might not be such a bad idea. And the canister only weighs a few ounces more than my stool. I know a lot of people find them bulky and awkward in their packs but I don't see that as a big deal.
Check manufacturers websites about the bags.
Canisters not only double as a chair but also makes a nice little table, a wash bin, bucket, congo drum, and you can stuff clothes or other items in them as you take food out. Another bonus is that you don't have to cary rope and constantly find trees to hang them from.
AfterParty
11-18-2016, 20:08
I have and still am considering a canister much more convenient. I am gonna have to re weigh all my gear and see if it will keep me where I want to be. I am not against hanging. But I do like the canister idea.
I'm another 2 percenter. A bear can weighs about 1 day's worth of food, so on a 4 day hike, I have the same starting weight as I would for a 5-day hike, no big deal. Sometimes, instead of a bear can, I pack my food in a plastic pretzel jug (6 ounces) - won't keep a bear out and I can't sit on it, but keeps food dry, whole, and rodent-free.
K2 Travels
11-18-2016, 23:09
So many ignorant people to sleep with or near their food.
Bear canisters are good though I find the Ursack to be much better. You can tie it around a tree or for more protection hang it like all other bags.
Ignore anything you read about Opsacks preventing animals from smelling your food. These fail agianst dogs let alone bears.
Only thing I would add is if using an Ursack make sure you tie it as instructed and hard. Have fun.
saltysack
11-18-2016, 23:13
So many ignorant people to sleep with or near their food.
Bear canisters are good though I find the Ursack to be much better. You can tie it around a tree or for more protection hang it like all other bags.
Ignore anything you read about Opsacks preventing animals from smelling your food. These fail agianst dogs let alone bears.
Only thing I would add is if using an Ursack make sure you tie it as instructed and hard. Have fun.
I guess I'm ignorant....my food bag makes a great pillow......[emoji15]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sarcasm the elf
11-18-2016, 23:20
So many ignorant people to sleep with or near their food.
Bear canisters are good though I find the Ursack to be much better. You can tie it around a tree or for more protection hang it like all other bags.
Ignore anything you read about Opsacks preventing animals from smelling your food. These fail agianst dogs let alone bears.
Only thing I would add is if using an Ursack make sure you tie it as instructed and hard. Have fun.
I'm constantly amused by people on the internet who label anyone who disagrees with them as "ignorant."
Hanging your food or using a canister when you leave it unattended is a technique to prevent bear problems. Keeping your food properly attended at all times (aka sleeping with your food) is also a technique.
The only really "ignorant" way to store food is to have it both unsecured and unattended, which is something that I see way too much of on the A.T. as it is.
K2 Travels
11-18-2016, 23:25
It's your life mate.
Would rather a bear not have to die because it bit/killed you as you were being laxy/ignorant in your food storage.
You would think common sense would prevail but so often laziness and the attitude of "nothing has happened to me yet" wins out.
Last post. Do and think as you will.
Sarcasm the elf
11-18-2016, 23:45
It's your life mate.
Would rather a bear not have to die because it bit/killed you as you were being laxy/ignorant in your food storage.
You would think common sense would prevail but so often laziness and the attitude of "nothing has happened to me yet" wins out.
Last post. Do and think as you will.
You can choose to believe whatever outdated bear myths you like and use thinly veiled ad hominem attacks, still doesn't make your point valid. Given your "last post" comment I assume that you were more intent on jumping in and insulting people than having a meaningful discussion so I won't bother arguing my point any further.
saltysack
11-19-2016, 00:03
It's your life mate.
Would rather a bear not have to die because it bit/killed you as you were being laxy/ignorant in your food storage.
You would think common sense would prevail but so often laziness and the attitude of "nothing has happened to me yet" wins out.
Last post. Do and think as you will.
If you were so concerned with the bears you would carry a can....the studies show the ursack still gives bears a taste reward when they get food tastes and scents through chewing on the porous bag....to each is to own...I'm all about following the rules. If a cans is required I use one. I also usually have my dog in the tent and bears typically stay clear of dogs...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
August W.
11-19-2016, 08:28
[QUOTE=saltysack;2105618]If you were so concerned with the bears you would carry a can....the studies show the ursack still gives bears a taste reward when they get food tastes and scents through chewing on the porous bag....to each is to own...I'm all about following the rules. If a cans is required I use one.
Glad to see this noted here! Far too many people seem to think that the ursack is just as good for the well being of bears as bear cans are.
While you guys were busy arguing, I'm still waiting for the answer to my question.
So... is it necessary to use an odor blocking bag with a canister?
I didn't want to start a debate about whether people are smart or ignorant, I just want to know if bears can smell food through the canister. I read that people leave them at a safe distance outside their tents which makes me think that bears can probably smell them, otherwise wouldn't people keep them in their tents rather than having to run around to find them in the morning after a bear spent the night playing hide and seek with the canister?
K2 Travels
11-19-2016, 16:34
Bears will still smell the food inside.
MuddyWaters
11-19-2016, 18:37
While you guys were busy arguing, I'm still waiting for the answer to my question.
So... is it necessary to use an odor blocking bag with a canister?
I didn't want to start a debate about whether people are smart or ignorant, I just want to know if bears can smell food through the canister. I read that people leave them at a safe distance outside their tents which makes me think that bears can probably smell them, otherwise wouldn't people keep them in their tents rather than having to run around to find them in the morning after a bear spent the night playing hide and seek with the canister?
Yes,bears can smell whats in cannister.
They work because too big to get jaws around to carry away, and cannot get leverage on to bust or pry open
The concept is that bears quickly learn theres no reward in spite of the odors.
You put cannister where it cant roll away, in a depression or such
Or surrounded by logs or rocks
Or close enough you can scare bear away if disturbs it
It's not necessary to use an odor proof bag with a bear canister. The bear can't get in.
cmoulder
11-19-2016, 20:42
Not a bad idea to put some bright yellow paint stripes on the bear can and/or some of that 3M reflective tape.
rocketsocks
11-19-2016, 20:47
Not a bad idea to put some bright yellow paint stripes on the bear can and/or some of that 3M reflective tape.
You can buy tracking dots...adhesive micro electronic circuits that can tell ya where the bear took your food bag, track it on your cell phone so you can recover the mauled killings and crumbs.
MuddyWaters
11-19-2016, 20:57
Not a bad idea to put some bright yellow paint stripes on the bear can and/or some of that 3M reflective tape.
Particularly when its black, and you want to be able to find in dark with headlamp.
Lots of reflective tape at auto store, made for trailers, etc. Red, white, yellow, striped, etc.
Yes,bears can smell whats in cannister.
They work because too big to get jaws around to carry away, and cannot get leverage on to bust or pry open
The concept is that bears quickly learn theres no reward in spite of the odors.
You put cannister where it cant roll away, in a depression or such
Or surrounded by logs or rocks
Or close enough you can scare bear away if disturbs it
THANK YOU!!! It's clear now. I'm seriously considering getting a canister and I want to use it properly.
FreeGoldRush
11-20-2016, 01:04
It's not necessary to use an odor proof bag with a bear canister. The bear can't get in.
There's just something unsettling about knowing that a bear is outside the tent playing with the food. During the day I'd never get as close to a bear as the bear cables often are to a shelter. At night you'd think you want twice the distance, yet people seem comfortable with about 10 steps. I use an Opsack in hopes that the bear stays far from camp. Maybe more experience required to be comfortable sleeping while a fully alert bear is just a few feet away.
There's just something unsettling about knowing that a bear is outside the tent playing with the food. During the day I'd never get as close to a bear as the bear cables often are to a shelter. At night you'd think you want twice the distance, yet people seem comfortable with about 10 steps. I use an Opsack in hopes that the bear stays far from camp. Maybe more experience required to be comfortable sleeping while a fully alert bear is just a few feet away.
If I'm using the bear canister, I find a place anywhere from a hundred feet to a hundred yards away to stash the can for the night. I've yet to wake up to find it disturbed. I've also used the can to cache food for resupply - same story, even after a week or two, the can is right where I left it, unbothered. Unless you're in a spot where bears - or a bear - are a known problem, bears are just not a big deal.
Old Hiker
11-20-2016, 11:58
I used a bear bag for my thru - 7 months, 4 days minus zeros. Slept with the food 2 times - both times very low on food and no suitable trees to hang from. I also slept AWAY from most shelters. The ONLY time I had problems was the night before Baxter State Park where I camped 100 meters or so from a shelter. A squirrel or some such chewed through my food bag.
I used a 30 oz Gatorade bottle for water - also used it for tying my para-cord around to fling it over branches. Worked VERY well, esp. when only half full. A rock or stick will get caught and when pulled on hard, will come flying back towards the thrower and smack him/her. (Don't ask how I know !! ) The bottle was also heavy enough to drop straight down without all the cord flipping, etc. needed for a rock or branch.
MuddyWaters
11-20-2016, 19:23
There's just something unsettling about knowing that a bear is outside the tent playing with the food. During the day I'd never get as close to a bear as the bear cables often are to a shelter. At night you'd think you want twice the distance, yet people seem comfortable with about 10 steps. I use an Opsack in hopes that the bear stays far from camp. Maybe more experience required to be comfortable sleeping while a fully alert bear is just a few feet away.
If a bear wants to be in tent with you, chewing on you , it would be. Whether your awake or not is not too relevant. The bear KNOWS you are there, your not hiding from it because cannister is 100 ft away even.
So put in earplugs, and sleep well. Your at the mercy of the bear, whether you think so or not. Unless you have a firearm.