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tombolino
11-04-2016, 20:42
Zissou 23 bag, tried it a couple of weeks ago.

Love the looks and wide cut but, not sure if its a keeper (REI). Temp specs 34 Comfort/23 Low didnt seem to match reality this weekend, 1st time I tried it. https://www.rei.com/product/847519/sierra-designs-zissou-23-sleeping-bag (http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=ale&ti=6969&pri=0&pw=189374&mi=10248&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F847519%2 Fsierra-designs-zissou-23-sleeping-bag).

Definitely a good 2 season bag, maybe with liner 3 season? Weight 2.3 lbs
Couldland Canyon State Park, GA..Slept in a big 4 person Eureka Copper Canyon tent with my son in his own sleeping bag. Tent was pitched on gravel site (state park car camping). Temps hit 32-35 F at night. I was a bit cold, with my limbs close to my body, not freezing or shaking, but not warm and toasty, not comfortable temp wise. I was wearing underwear, workout nylon pants, t-shirt and light fleece and socks. They day had been warm. Sleeping pad was Sea To Summit UL pad with 3.3 R Value, Synthetic Insulation, 2 inches wide overall.
Not sure if to just get a liner? (weight?) What brand and temp/specs should I get?

or return the sleeping bag? I do love the great wide cut, soft materials, cool looking. Cost me $200, clearance REI.
Would use for both car camping and non hardore UL backpacking. Going to Smokies next week, Mt. Le Conte, shelter.
https://www.rei.com/product/847519/sierra-designs-zissou-23-sleeping-bag (http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=ale&ti=6969&pri=0&pw=189374&mi=10248&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F847519%2 Fsierra-designs-zissou-23-sleeping-bag)
Thanks

Time Zone
11-04-2016, 20:53
IIRC, sleeping bag temp ratings traditionally are "keep you alive" ratings, not "I am comfortable at this temp" ratings. "EN ratings" may be an exception. Anyway, in my experience, as a cold sleeper, I tend to add 20F to any ordinary sleeping bag rating to get my "I am comfortable at this temp" rating. So a 23 bag would be good for me down to 43. Everyone is different, but you might wish to consider this factor - and what it would be for you - when deciding whether to keep it.

As for liners, I tend to get tangled up in them, and I think many others do too. Better way to keep bag clean is wear close fitting clean sleep clothes and let them be your liner. And just buy the right bag for most conditions.

LIhikers
11-04-2016, 20:58
Having a good warm pad is essential to staying warm.
I believe the usual recommendation is to have a pad with an R5 rating for cold weather use.
Maybe you can add a layer of closed cell foam to help bump up your R rating.

tombolino
11-04-2016, 20:58
the alternative is the Zissou 3 S which I just ordered before it sold out, also $200.

27/15 temp but 2.13 lbs....

https://www.rei.com/product/896280/sierra-designs-zissou-3s-plus-sleeping-bag

tombolino
11-04-2016, 20:59
So between the 2 bags, 1lbs difference almost

Hikingjim
11-04-2016, 21:40
your bag is 15.5 fill at 700 fill power (standard length), which is probably around a 35f for most people and a bit higher for you it seems.
I would rather get an 850 fill power quilt (around 12 oz fill for a 20 degree) for that type of 3 season purpose, since it's a lot lighter and they run about $250. I find it easier to layer or to add other items to extend the range and still have room to be comfortable

Sounds like you would probably want a couple oz of overstuff on a quilt. it would make it more suitable in the 20s or low 30s

Your bag wasn't a bad price if you decide to keep it. I don't like liners much... but you could easily also add a better base layer and/or a light down jacket with a hood and/or a beanie if you weren't wearing one
Wearing my camp puffy jacket extends the range of my quilt/bag quite a bit

RangerZ
11-05-2016, 12:46
I like my Zissou 23. I switch to it from poncho liners below 50*; add long UA base layers below 40*, add the poncho liners back as over/underquilts if its forecasted below freezing. I usually sleep in a watch cap and have added a balaclava and my puffy.

I'm only using a zlite sol pad at R=2.6, I also have a roll of reflectix that I've layer on top of the zlite; I don't know what the combination R value would be.
It all works for me, I'm not planning to camp much below freezing. The bag also met my price point at the time. Besides the blue/green colors are cool. :banana

I think that the last time that I got cold sleeping was because I didn't have enough fuel in my body. So add that, presleep exercise, hot water nalgenes, etc to your sleep system.


I have drooled over 15* and 0* bags but can't justify them.

Secondmouse
11-05-2016, 16:36
your bag is 15.5 fill at 700 fill power (standard length), which is probably around a 35f for most people and a bit higher for you it seems.
I would rather get an 850 fill power quilt (around 12 oz fill for a 20 degree) for that type of 3 season purpose, since it's a lot lighter and they run about $250. I find it easier to layer or to add other items to extend the range and still have room to be comfortable

Sounds like you would probably want a couple oz of overstuff on a quilt. it would make it more suitable in the 20s or low 30s

Your bag wasn't a bad price if you decide to keep it. I don't like liners much... but you could easily also add a better base layer and/or a light down jacket with a hood and/or a beanie if you weren't wearing one
Wearing my camp puffy jacket extends the range of my quilt/bag quite a bit

this bag is very well made but has been criticized as being a bit under filled for it's rating. it's important to fluff and distribute the down to the top of the bag.

I wonder if there's an independent company that would add down/overfill to this?..

Venchka
11-05-2016, 22:44
Rainy Pass in Seattle will add down to a bag. However, it's not cheap. I doubt that they could do the whole bag. For the price of the bag + the cost to try to fix it you could have gotten a decent bag in the first place.
In the meantime, if possible move as much down as possible to the top. This only works for bags without a side block baffle. Then put R-5 insulation between the bag and the ground. Cover up with warm layers from head to toes to fingers. Wool and down work for me. A hot water bottle as a last resort.
Wayne


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Secondmouse
11-06-2016, 01:00
Rainy Pass in Seattle will add down to a bag. However, it's not cheap. I doubt that they could do the whole bag. For the price of the bag + the cost to try to fix it you could have gotten a decent bag in the first place.
In the meantime, if possible move as much down as possible to the top. This only works for bags without a side block baffle. Then put R-5 insulation between the bag and the ground. Cover up with warm layers from head to toes to fingers. Wool and down work for me. A hot water bottle as a last resort.
Wayne


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thanks, it is a decent bag. well made and comfortable and a larger profile/width that I want. though it's rated 23*, I bought it thinking it would make a good 30* bag and so far, it's been fine.

I only paid $139 for it. I could take the 6oz of 700-fill down from a $20 Costco Down Throw and add whatever cost for them to do that and it would still make it a bargain...

Venchka
11-06-2016, 10:10
To date, the most cost effective way for me to sleep when I am under protected is to spread a down vest (always in my pack) across my midsection under the quilt or bag. It does miracles. A "puffy" jacket with the arms reversed and next to you would do the same. This has worked for me much better than wearing the vest in the normal way. Give it a try.
Wayne


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Secondmouse
11-07-2016, 11:57
To date, the most cost effective way for me to sleep when I am under protected is to spread a down vest (always in my pack) across my midsection under the quilt or bag. It does miracles. A "puffy" jacket with the arms reversed and next to you would do the same. This has worked for me much better than wearing the vest in the normal way. Give it a try.
Wayne


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your vest is always in your pack, even in combination with a down jacket/sweater?

I have a down vest but it ends up being used as a pillow more often than anything, I simply haven't figured out a use for it instead of a sleeved jacket...

slbirdnerd
11-07-2016, 13:27
I have a Zissou 23. I used it a couple times and found it to be wimpy and very cold. It sits in the closet an I let my Boy Scout use it on dry weekends above freezing.

I've since gotten some good quality bags from cottage companies and when you lay, well, just about anything, next to that Zissou you can see the difference right there--the thing has no loft.

I'm not sure a liner will help. A new bag would :)

Venchka
11-07-2016, 20:13
your vest is always in your pack, even in combination with a down jacket/sweater?

I have a down vest but it ends up being used as a pillow more often than anything, I simply haven't figured out a use for it instead of a sleeved jacket...

Vest instead of jacket or sweater.
Exped Air Pillow.
My clothing inventory is selected so that on the coldest nights I anticipate there is nothing leftover to use as a pillow. Read The New Complete Walker.
Besides, the Exped pillow is perfect for me. I haven't found anything else that comes close.
Wayne


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Secondmouse
11-07-2016, 22:48
Vest instead of jacket or sweater.
Exped Air Pillow.
My clothing inventory is selected so that on the coldest nights I anticipate there is nothing leftover to use as a pillow. Read The New Complete Walker.
Besides, the Exped pillow is perfect for me. I haven't found anything else that comes close.
Wayne


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I wasn't asking about a pillow. or how much clothing to carry. and I read the New Complete Walker about 30 years ago.

you said "a down vest (always in my pack) "..., I was asking if it truly is an "always" piece, even in really cold weather in addition to a jacket, or if a jacket replaces it.

but since you asked, the Sea to Summit Aeros Premium pillow kicks the Exped's butt...

tombolino
11-08-2016, 10:15
Has anyone issued the Zissou 2S (green one) for cold conditions? How did you do in low 30s and high 20s? Its a 36/26

https://www.rei.com/product/896279/sierra-designs-zissou-plus-2s-sleeping-bag (http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=ale&ti=6969&pri=0&pw=189374&mi=10248&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F896279%2 Fsierra-designs-zissou-plus-2s-sleeping-bag)

Venchka
11-08-2016, 14:32
I wasn't asking about a pillow. or how much clothing to carry. and I read the New Complete Walker about 30 years ago.

you said "a down vest (always in my pack) "..., I was asking if it truly is an "always" piece, even in really cold weather in addition to a jacket, or if a jacket replaces it.

but since you asked, the Sea to Summit Aeros Premium pillow kicks the Exped's butt...

Until and unless I backpack in real winter conditions the down vest goes with me anytime that I even think I might need it. I own a real winter down parka which isn't suitable to backpacking so I adjust all of my layers and sleeping bag to stay comfortable into single digits.
I'm glad you found a pillow that works for you.
Wayne


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Secondmouse
11-08-2016, 15:19
Until and unless I backpack in real winter conditions the down vest goes with me anytime that I even think I might need it. I own a real winter down parka which isn't suitable to backpacking so I adjust all of my layers and sleeping bag to stay comfortable into single digits.
I'm glad you found a pillow that works for you.
Wayne


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got it. I just wondered as some people will have a favorite piece of gear that just automatically goes with them, like a Patagroinia Houdini wind jacket. I can definitely see the benefit of 5 or 6 oz of down vest stashed somewhere in your pack, regardless of what else you carry.

I started another thread asking about the Patagroinia Nano Puff jacket but rejected it because of its weight. I'm trying to find a piece to fill the 10*-15* gap between weather prediction and unpredictable reality...

Venchka
11-08-2016, 19:20
Long story hopefully shortened.
After several trips to places in the northern latitudes and enduring unexpected low temperatures and equally chilling precipitation and buying clothing to stay warm, I made a solemn promise to myself. Never leave home without my down vest and Gore-Tex parka.
Unfortunately, I didn't make that promise until after I had purchased 4 WPB parkas and numerous fleece jackets or pullovers. [emoji2][emoji106][emoji41]
Wayne


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tombolino
11-16-2016, 22:28
One more round of decision making, hear me out….
-I don’t truly have enough trip experience to know what I need. Not sure if like many of you here, I should have two bags. No I’m not out backpacking every other weekend. I am UL conscious but not hardcore.
-I dont want a quilt (tried one, no thanks) nor a WM (bc they are too much $ and I cant return if I dont like).
So with my given choices that I can buy at REi, here is what I could do:
A. Zissou 3S will be plenty warm for 20’s/30s for me; its very good quality $160. 2 lbs, 15oz – Ok this is on the heavy side but its a good deal for a warm bag. I wont be going to the Rockies with it. So in theory, I could use this bag for 3S and southest winter, Im going to the Smokies soon, Im confident it will do well. It will be in the 30s and 20s.
B. Zissou above + Hydrogen 30 degree bag which weighs 1lb 11oz which would run me about $270. So both $430. Do I want 2 bags and I will be happy to have the lighter Hydrogen for non chilly weather trips?
C. Neither of the above, get marmot Helium for $400, 15/20’s bag, weighs 2lbs, 4 oz. My only bag.
Thoughts? :)

saltysack
11-16-2016, 23:09
One more round of decision making, hear me out.
-I dont truly have enough trip experience to know what I need. Not sure if like many of you here, I should have two bags. No Im not out backpacking every other weekend. I am UL conscious but not hardcore.
-I dont want a quilt (tried one, no thanks) nor a WM (bc they are too much $ and I cant return if I dont like).
So with my given choices that I can buy at REi, here is what I could do:
A. Zissou 3S will be plenty warm for 20s/30s for me; its very good quality $160. 2 lbs, 15oz Ok this is on the heavy side but its a good deal for a warm bag. I wont be going to the Rockies with it. So in theory, I could use this bag for 3S and southest winter, Im going to the Smokies soon, Im confident it will do well. It will be in the 30s and 20s.
B. Zissou above + Hydrogen 30 degree bag which weighs 1lb 11oz which would run me about $270. So both $430. Do I want 2 bags and I will be happy to have the lighter Hydrogen for non chilly weather trips?
C. Neither of the above, get marmot Helium for $400, 15/20s bag, weighs 2lbs, 4 oz. My only bag.
Thoughts? :)

Helium is a good bag...I just sold mine......I'd go that route then add a cheap 45-50 deg quilt for warmer weather @ about 1lb and can layer over the helium which I found warm to about upper 20's with cap 3 base layer only.


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saltysack
11-16-2016, 23:12
I started out using the helium year round with no issues but I seldom hike between May to September. You can always open up and use like a quilt when weathers warm...make sure you have a warm pad for winter!


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