View Full Version : Where is there no forest fire smoke in the Southeast to go backpacking??
tombolino
11-14-2016, 11:14
cant go anywhere!
Im in ATL
Lone Wolf
11-14-2016, 11:20
grayson highlands
blue indian
11-14-2016, 11:29
Also all the water sources in the SE are DRY. Just keep that in mind. We need rain so bad
Time Zone
11-14-2016, 11:36
cant go anywhere!
Im in ATL
As of now, Central and eastern NC/SC; coastal GA.
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
Tipi Walter
11-14-2016, 12:00
Also all the water sources in the SE are DRY. Just keep that in mind. We need rain so bad
This is just not true. While many springs are bone dry and while some creeks are bone dry---there are many creeks still flowing. I just returned from a long backpacking trip 10 days ago and found a surprising number of small springs still flowing. You just have to know where to look. If a spring is dry, follow the spring rocks down the mountain 200 or 300 feet and there's a good chance you'll find tiny mud-seep pools full of water. Dig these out and wait for the silt to settle and Voila you have water.
For those planning a backpacking trip during a drought, I recommend sticking to trails along creeks and there are many in the Southeast. (The problem now are the forest fires keeping people out---and not unavailable water sources).
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2016-Trips-171/Four-Trails-of-the-Apocalypse/i-rbhwcGT/0/XL/P1000041-XL.jpg
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Descend the springhead down several hundred feet until you find wet ground and dig out a pump hole. There's plenty of water.
What is the water/smoke situation like in Roan Highlands?
I am planning a trip there later this week... Iron Mountain to 19E- but may decide to head further north.
This is just not true. While many springs are bone dry and while some creeks are bone dry---there are many creeks still flowing. I just returned from a long backpacking trip 10 days ago and found a surprising number of small springs still flowing. You just have to know where to look. If a spring is dry, follow the spring rocks down the mountain 200 or 300 feet and there's a good chance you'll find tiny mud-seep pools full of water. Dig these out and wait for the silt to settle and Voila you have water.
For those planning a backpacking trip during a drought, I recommend sticking to trails along creeks and there are many in the Southeast. (The problem now are the forest fires keeping people out---and not unavailable water sources).
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Descend the springhead down several hundred feet until you find wet ground and dig out a pump hole. There's plenty of water.
Wonder how many times those thinking there is no water available is just because they are (like it seems many mention) not carrying the right gear (like the filter/pump you show) to be able to get it?
For instance, someone just treating it with a chemical might have trouble getting their whatever into that small space to get the water into it, where the pump makes that much easier.
Tipi Walter
11-14-2016, 12:42
Wonder how many times those thinking there is no water available is just because they are (like it seems many mention) not carrying the right gear (like the filter/pump you show) to be able to get it?
For instance, someone just treating it with a chemical might have trouble getting their whatever into that small space to get the water into it, where the pump makes that much easier.
You point out one of the flaws of the Sawyer system filters vs pump filters. I always recommend using a pump filter and NOT a Sawyer for this very reason.
Generally, backpackers are lazy when it comes to getting water. They prefer not to carry much and certainly not have to carry 9 lbs of the stuff to dry camps for 3 days like I had to do twice on my trip, and they are lazy when it comes to searching out water sources far off the trails they are hiking.
What is the water/smoke situation like in Roan Highlands?
I am planning a trip there later this week... Iron Mountain to 19E- but may decide to head further north.
I hiked Buffalo Mountain near Johnson City yesterday and the main Blue Ridge mountains were almost invisible because of the smoke. I only had a view range of about 5 miles. I wouldn't do the Roan Highlands until after a significant rainfall can put the fires out and clear out the smoke.
blue indian
11-14-2016, 13:09
Ok. Not ALL water sources are dry. I did see many streams running this past weekend. But many of water sources that your average backpacker is looking for might not be flowing. The average backpacker is not going to walk 300 yards down the side of the mountain to fetch water. Just trying to make sure everyone is safe out there...
saltysack
11-14-2016, 13:12
Sounds like Grayson Highlands or Mount Rogers area would be the best choice
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
saltysack
11-14-2016, 13:12
Well worth the drive....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I hiked Buffalo Mountain near Johnson City yesterday and the main Blue Ridge mountains were almost invisible because of the smoke. I only had a view range of about 5 miles. I wouldn't do the Roan Highlands until after a significant rainfall can put the fires out and clear out the smoke.
Thank you!
Tipi Walter
11-14-2016, 13:27
Ok. Not ALL water sources are dry. I did see many streams running this past weekend. But many of water sources that your average backpacker is looking for might not be flowing. The average backpacker is not going to walk 300 yards down the side of the mountain to fetch water. Just trying to make sure everyone is safe out there...
Without water there is no backpacking. If a backpacker wants to stay out in the woods for the duration of his trip, he had better make the necessary effort to find water. And camp next to creeks. What's a measly hike down a mountain side for water when it means he can stay out for 3 weeks?
blue indian
11-14-2016, 14:28
Without water there is no backpacking. If a backpacker wants to stay out in the woods for the duration of his trip, he had better make the necessary effort to find water. And camp next to creeks. What's a measly hike down a mountain side for water when it means he can stay out for 3 weeks?
Totally agree
I just wanted to make sure the average backpacker understood the conditions in the SE right now to be safe and enjoy nature.
I certainly underestimated the severity of the wildfires
MuddyWaters
11-14-2016, 14:38
Wonder how many times those thinking there is no water available is just because they are (like it seems many mention) not carrying the right gear (like the filter/pump you show) to be able to get it?
For instance, someone just treating it with a chemical might have trouble getting their whatever into that small space to get the water into it, where the pump makes that much easier.
Ummm....a simple cup, ziplock, or cookpot can basically collect any water thats collectable. A large straw also works for diverting smallest trickles
Moosling
11-14-2016, 14:38
cant go anywhere!
Im in ATL
I'm east of Greensboro and we've had smoke whenever a cool front comes from the west, I'm talking thick smoke it's crazy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Starchild
11-14-2016, 15:10
You point out one of the flaws of the Sawyer system filters vs pump filters. I always recommend using a pump filter and NOT a Sawyer for this very reason.
Generally, backpackers are lazy when it comes to getting water. They prefer not to carry much and certainly not have to carry 9 lbs of the stuff to dry camps for 3 days like I had to do twice on my trip, and they are lazy when it comes to searching out water sources far off the trails they are hiking.
Lazy??? or smart, The first part of LNT is preparation, including accounting for water. In that is selection of a water purification device for what you are attempting and also given contingencies. The smart hiker will research and select the proper water purification device for the hike they are planning. Primary is the ability to get water, secondary is convenience of the method including weight.
With proper reasonable preplanning not everyone needs to go to the extreme of 'prepper' while on trail.
Tipi Walter
11-14-2016, 16:10
Ummm....a simple cup, ziplock, or cookpot can basically collect any water thats collectable. A large straw also works for diverting smallest trickles
As befits your Muddy Waters appellation---trying to get water out of tiny seep pools as in my pic with a cup or ziploc or pot will result in gathering muddy water and will fill your container with half water and half silt. A suction pump can gather clean water out of the smallest pools without stirring up this mud.
Lazy??? or smart, The first part of LNT is preparation, including accounting for water. In that is selection of a water purification device for what you are attempting and also given contingencies. The smart hiker will research and select the proper water purification device for the hike they are planning. Primary is the ability to get water, secondary is convenience of the method including weight.
With proper reasonable preplanning not everyone needs to go to the extreme of 'prepper' while on trail.
The beauty of a pump filter is it works in getting water from regular sources ("for what you are attempting" on a regular trip) and also getting water during various "contingencies" i.e. droughts, scarce sources etc. So it does double duty.
This current drought is not my first rodeo with tiny water sources. Many "secret" springs off hiking trails can be found with some exploration and once finding these sources you have more campsite choices because you have water. Even in regular weather with no drought these sources are small and require a pump filter to pull up clean water. Here are some examples during normal weather (no drought) on various backpacking trails---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/21-Days-Yellow-Mt/i-QgBXCbf/0/XL/Trip%20156%20124-XL.jpg
This is a source on the Benton MacKaye trail on Yellow Creek Mt above Fontana that requires a pump. The green leaf keeps the filter out of the mud and allows for cleaner water to be suctioned up.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Warriors-Passage/i-Ttp5gFc/0/L/TRIP%20128%20124-L.jpg
This source is the only water source on the 6.2 mile Flats Mt trail and the dead leaf keeps the nozzle clean.
As far as your last quote---"With proper reasonable preplanning not everyone needs to go to the extreme of 'prepper' while on trail."---I can't make any sense of it. And beyond this, if the primary purpose of a filter is to get water as in your post, then Sawyer type gravity filters fail miserably at this---They don't in fact gather any kind of water---they just filter.
MuddyWaters
11-14-2016, 16:46
As befits your Muddy Waters appellation---trying to get water out of tiny seep pools as in my pic with a cup or ziploc or pot will result in gathering muddy water and will fill your container with half water and half silt. A suction pump can gather clean water out of the smallest pools without stirring up this mud.
.
Dig or dam a little pool, let settle a few min solves most.
If you can submerge end of filter, you can carefully dip from surface with a cup or ziplock bag.
Or, suck up with straw.
No law against settling in bottles either
A filter might be helpful in some circumstance, but not a necessity.
I drank green/brown pond water as a kid.
I don't recognize any pics of seeps or water sources I couldn't get water by dipping a spoon, plastic bag, or small cookpot. Might take some time, possibly more time than on other water finding occasions, but when you need water, and especially when you're approach to backpacking is spending more time camping, sitting around, etc rather than on the move, you find a way to get it. Not a big deal. AND, THE WAY TO GET IT HAS NEVER ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED A PIECE OF GEAR LIKE A PUMP OR FILTER OR POT. Those things are more for convenience sake rather than necessary. A cupped leaf, can hold water or rolled leaf can direct water from a seep. Squeezing out wet moss, that I've always been able to locate in shaded spots even in the toughest of east coast drought situations, can be used as water sources. Certain types of moss are excellent sponges that can be used to sop up water from seeps. Certain tree bark or non poison fungus or mushrooms can behave as descent water sponges.
I don't know what others do, but most times, and I certainly would in drought conditions, I'd be carrying at least two ways to hold some amount of water even if it's a shell/outer layer or clean sock or shirt than can be used to sop up water. This water can be strained or allowed to settle out debris than the cleaned H20 can be decantered off.
Seeps are often located on grades. Sometimes on the sides of vertical embankments. Finding one in Appalachian forest environments, as evidenced in the pics, often includes moss so aren't always as dirtied as some make seeps in the east out to be. C'mon you can't find a way to strain or filter water as hikers? Finding a seep on grade, even one with seemingly invisible or marginal flow, one can usually place a smooth stick, long flat rock, or pen into the seep and water will flow down it. Place a water retaining receptacle on the other end and one can usually accumulate water. If it's contains debris strain it through a piece of clean clothing into another water restraining receptacle. Water receptacles can be pita pockets, tortillas, Snickers or Pop Tart packaging, etc The receptacle can come from nature too. It can be a cupped leaf, possibly several layers of cupped leaves made into a larger tostado like bowl, or slightly concave stone, or formed wet clay pot.
If the seep is remotely located not relied on by others a small channel can be scratched in soft surfaces that will accumulate water spreading it out helping it to settle out debris. Or, as MW said make a little pool by creating a dam. Heck, if there is a serious drought situation makes several pools or catch seep water from several seeps simultaneously.
In much more problematic seep situations I've never never been stumped at gathering water.
MtDoraDave
11-15-2016, 07:33
Back to the topic, I'm hoping the AT from Damascus, VA north about 85 miles is not on fire and/or dry of water - that's where I plan to head for a hike this next week.
Up until now, I've had a Katadyne mini, which has worked well, if not slowly, from just about any trickle of water encountered. My hiking partner has the Sawyer, and at most water sources it has been the faster and more convenient filter. As has been mentioned, for small trickles, dig a pool if necessary, wait for it to settle, then slowly and carefully (so as not to stir up sediment while doing so) dip a cup.
MuddyWaters
11-15-2016, 07:41
There is still smoke everywhere, depends on wind. I talked to someone in damascus yesterday, Theres smoke in damascus and a number of fires in SW VA also. Damascus had air quality warning yesterday. Theres even fires in WV.
That doesnt have to stop you, just be prepared for it possibly. Attitude is everything.
PatmanTN
11-15-2016, 08:27
FWIW, I was in the Smokies last weekend; I live in Knoxville and last Friday there was less than five miles of visibility in town. I called the Treemont Institute to inquire about the weather and they told me it was clear and beautiful with no smell of smoke at that moment. Sure enough that nights hike along Middle Prong to Mark's Cove was awesome and smoke free. The next day I looped up to Miry Ridge and the AT and it was like another world. Super Smoky and smelly. I dropped off at Starkey Gap and followed the drainage off trail down to Sam's creek and was back into the smoke free zone in about 30 minutes. So I guess you can find pockets of good places to be in some of the valleys. But of course the wind could change an area quickly.
cant go anywhere!
Im in ATL
I live south OTP of Atlanta and it's ridiculous.
I was up in Ellijay on Friday and it was so bad I could barely see across the highway.
Lone Wolf
11-15-2016, 09:09
very little smoke in damascus. water sources are very low. no fires north of here
hikernutcasey
11-15-2016, 11:02
They actually had to do back burns beginning right beside the restaurant at the NOC to protect it. I live in northwest NC and it is hazy and sometimes smoky here and we are under a air quality alert today. With a drier and warmer than normal winter predicted for the southeast, this isn't going to get any better any time soon. Really need some rain.
I gathered this with a Ziploc bag. It took a long time to gather and even longer to get it prepared to filter with my Sawyer. I'd much rather have had a pump, which I will bring next time if there's a known water shortage. I'll still carry the Sawyer for other reasons.
37012
yeah that's not dirty that's chocolate milk.
ever find tiny fish, mosquito larva, tiny frogs, or tadpoles in the water you obtained?
ever get water from sources that resemble wet green slimy cottage cheese?
MuddyWaters
11-16-2016, 15:14
I gathered this with a Ziploc bag. It took a long time to gather and even longer to get it prepared to filter with my Sawyer. I'd much rather have had a pump, which I will bring next time if there's a known water shortage. I'll still carry the Sawyer for other reasons.
37012
Filter that and you likely wont have a working filter long.
Cant let drinking a little dirt or algae bother you.
Cant let drinking a little dirt or algae bother you.
Yeah, anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger. :-? :D
Tipi Walter
11-16-2016, 16:05
I gathered this with a Ziploc bag. It took a long time to gather and even longer to get it prepared to filter with my Sawyer. I'd much rather have had a pump, which I will bring next time if there's a known water shortage. I'll still carry the Sawyer for other reasons.
Wow, great pic Rush. Had I not had my pump filter all my water would've looked like this. Then what, drink as is? No thanks. It's half mud and half water. What filter will deal with this? Better to try my technique---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/23-Days-with-Hootyhoo-Sgt-Rock/i-fLcHMBR/0/L/TRIP%20115%20131-L.jpg
The beauty of this method is #1---you suck up clean unsilted water from a tiny pool and #2---your job is done as the water has been filtered and it's ready for drinking. Minimal mud, maximum quench.
Uncle Joe
11-16-2016, 16:42
The smoke is clearing a bit today. I wouldn't let it stop me from hiking. In fact, I may be out there somewhere myself this weekend. Thinking of doing something along the Woody-to-Neel section. Water is scarce along there, however.
Couldn't a Life Straw be used to get water in the pics? It would seem like a lighter wt less bulky way, no?
Tipi Walter
11-16-2016, 18:00
The smoke is clearing a bit today. I wouldn't let it stop me from hiking. In fact, I may be out there somewhere myself this weekend. Thinking of doing something along the Woody-to-Neel section. Water is scarce along there, however.
I'll be packing several N100 face masks as part of my standard load on my next backpacking trip---3M---N100 face mask as below. Why not? They're light and they're cheap.
http://www.bosssafety.com/images/Product/medium/6903.jpg
Couldn't a Life Straw be used to get water in the pics? It would seem like a lighter wt less bulky way, no?
How would a life straw fill up a gallon of water? By sucking in a bunch and spitting it out into my containers??
That's what I was thinking Tipi. I have never used a Life Straw device so I was asking not condemning or promoting the option.
You'r going backpacking wearing face masks? I find that highly unusual at least for those not hiking in Beijing.
johnnybgood
11-16-2016, 19:33
Add the southern district of Shenandoah National Park to the list of areas with a fire ban in place. www.nps.gov/shen/learn/news/south-district-fire-restrictions.htm (http://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/news/south-district-fire-restrictions.htm)
Filter that and you likely wont have a working filter long.
Cant let drinking a little dirt or algae bother you.
Yeah, as per my post:
"It took a long time to gather and even longer to get it prepared to filter with my Sawyer."
I had to let it settle in this bag, then poor slowly into another before I used the filter. If you tried to use a Sawyer on this bag your flow rate would be NIL.
yeah that's not dirty that's chocolate milk.
ever find tiny fish, mosquito larva, tiny frogs, or tadpoles in the water you obtained?
ever get water from sources that resemble wet green slimy cottage cheese?
I try to avoid it if possible, but I did filter from a green slimy pool once that smelled like a horse's ass.
Wow, great pic Rush. Had I not had my pump filter all my water would've looked like this. Then what, drink as is? No thanks. It's half mud and half water. What filter will deal with this? Better to try my technique---
The beauty of this method is #1---you suck up clean unsilted water from a tiny pool and #2---your job is done as the water has been filtered and it's ready for drinking. Minimal mud, maximum quench.
No question that having a pump is the best device even if it weighs more. I had to dig to get this source, and it was damn near impossible to avoid the silt using a Ziploc. I'm glad I've had the experience of both plentiful water and no water on the trail. I learned a lot.
Add the southern district of Shenandoah National Park to the list of areas with a fire ban in place. www.nps.gov/shen/learn/news/south-district-fire-restrictions.htm (http://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/news/south-district-fire-restrictions.htm)
Thanks for posting this. No alcohol stoves in southern SNP for the time being.
Yesterday evening and again this morning TV news reported 30 fires totaling 128,000 acres in KY, TN, NC & GA.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
saltysack
11-17-2016, 18:30
We've got smoke all the way down in NE Fl from fires in southern Appalachians....hope it improves in few weeks as I hope to do southern part of SNP.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yesterday evening and again this morning TV news reported 30 fires totaling 128,000 acres in KY, TN, NC & GA.
the number of fires is way way higher than that..........
its well over 100.......
not sure about acreage though.........
it (literally) is changing on a daily basis-----for instance, we had a new fire break out this afternoon in walland (which is near the smokys)...
illabelle
11-17-2016, 18:56
the number of fires is way way higher than that..........
its well over 100.......
not sure about acreage though.........
it (literally) is changing on a daily basis-----for instance, we had a new fire break out this afternoon in walland (which is near the smokys)...
My boss drove through Maryville today and was telling us about it. Said it was big. :(
saltysack
11-17-2016, 19:03
Well the green tunnel not going to be so green for few years....a burn does have some positive effects though....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rocketsocks
11-17-2016, 21:41
I always wanted to hike on the moon.
saltysack
11-17-2016, 22:30
I always wanted to hike on the moon.
[emoji23]...on a serious note part of the sierras felt like I was hiking the moon....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
saltysack
11-17-2016, 22:30
Sierra damn it....not sierras!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe tv said 130 and I only heard 30. The 128,000 acres was written on the screen. But that number is 24-36 hours old.
The front coming through is supposed to make it all worse. Good luck Y'all. Praying for you.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here was an update they sent a few minutes ago--
note--these are just TN fires
Tennessee Department of Agriculture
1 hr *
2016 Fall Wildfire Season Situation Update - NIGHT
November 17, 2016; 7PM CST (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://1)
The TDA Division of Forestry responded to 17 new fires statewide for 391 acres today.
o West Tennessee District - 4 fire/2 acres; 1 was from burning vehicle, 3 escaped debris fires (citations issued)
o Highland Rim District - 3 fires/85 acres; 2 fires were suspected arson, 1 fire was unknown cause and on-going
o Cumberland District - 4 fires for 3 acres; all were suspected arson
o East Tennessee District - 6 fires for 301 acres; 1 escaped debris fires, other 5 fires unknown cause
MAJOR FIRES:
o East Miller Cove (Blount) unknown acres, 50% contained
o Cool Branch Cove (Hancock) 100 acres, 0% contained
o Neddy Mt (Cocke) 1,116 acres, 85% contained
o White Oak Circle (Morgan) 1,888 acres/100% contained
o Flippers Bend (Hamilton) 979 acres, 95% contained
o Poe Rd. (Hamilton) 712 acres, 80% contained
o Mowbray (Hamilton) 865 acres, 70% contained
o Hobbstown (Sequatchie) 181 acres/100% contained
o Sunshine (Sequatchie) 46 acres/100%
o Bench Bluff (Bledsoe) 2,109 acres, 100% contained
o Cave Cove (Marion) 170 acres, 90% contained
We're hitting the Pine Mountain Trail next weekend. South Georgia near Columbus. Was the last weekend and no smoke whatsoever.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
[emoji23]...on a serious note part of the sierras felt like I was hiking the moon....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For those that like Mars or moon landing like hikes:
1)hike down into Haleakala caldera from the summit at the Visitors Center on the Sliding Sands(Keonehe'ehe'e) Tr. and Halemau'u Tr to Paliku Cabin
2) CDT(Chain of Craters Tr) through El Malpas National Monument
3) PCT through McKenzie Pass
4) In Hawaii Volcanoes NP hike from the Mauna Loa Lookout TH up the Mauna Loa Tr over to the other side of the caldera to the true Mauna Loa Summit flagged high point retracing to the Mauna Loa Cabin and descend the 'Aiagnapo Tr to Hallway Cabin
5) In Hawaii Volcanoes NP starting at Maunaiki TH on Hilini Pali Rd or Ka'u Desert TH on Hwy 11 take the Ka'u Desert Tr past Pepeiao Cabin to the Ka'aha Tr to the Hilini Pali TRAIL to Halape and onward along the Puna Coast TR to Chain of Craters Rd but checking out the nearby Pu'u Petroglyphs and Holei' Sea Arch. Hitch back to the Visitors Center
6) In Hawaii Volcanoes NP starting at the Naulu TH on Chain Of Craters Rd hike to Napau Crater. Take the Napau Crater Tr. back to Pauahi Crater or connect with the Escape Rd to Thurston lava Tube.
4, 5, and 6 are the best moonscapes but if eruptions are occurring, especially with 5 and 6, they may not be possible due to lava, active fissures/vents, and volcanic gases or the trails may be closed.
1 is the best Mars scape
Wouldn't be that astonished seeing any or all of these covered by one of the crawlers in a future Backpacker piece. :rolleyes:
Actually, they already covered the Mauna Loa hike to the summit. :-?
cneill13
11-21-2016, 09:21
I went up to the North Georgia mountains to camp on Saturday and test out some of my equipment in the 20 mile+ hour winds.
I went up to Woody Gap initially but the wind was just too much. So we instead went down to Dockery Lake and hiked up the approach trail toward the AT.
Water was flowing interesting enough as we haven't had a lick of water in about 6 weeks.
I did not notice any fire activity at all in the area I was at. No smoke, nothing.
But I did notice ashes all over my tarp in the morning. Just small white ashes. Not sure where they blew in from but there are obviously fires in the area. I just didn't see any thankfully.
Carl
Secondmouse
11-21-2016, 10:44
I gathered this with a Ziploc bag. It took a long time to gather and even longer to get it prepared to filter with my Sawyer. I'd much rather have had a pump, which I will bring next time if there's a known water shortage. I'll still carry the Sawyer for other reasons.
37012
this is why I throw half a dozen coffee filters in my kit. the water may still be colored but at least it won't be crunchy...