Want lighter more comfortable sleeping gear [Archive]

dreamweaver21

11-19-2016, 23:06

Hello,

I am a part time White Blazer. I do 1-2 weeks a year on the AT each year and have for the last three years. I love the hiking but not really a fan of sleeping in the woods because I can never sleep through the night. I started at Springer 3 years ago and I am at mile marker 606 (Trent's Grocery). Each trip I adjust my gear based on my experience. Last year it was a new tent. This year I am looking for a better sleep setup. I currently use a Klymit Static V Sleeping Pad and an Enlightened Equipment 20 degree quilt.

My issues with this setup are: I wake up a lot part of it is because the pad makes my arms go to sleep (stomach sleeper) and part of it is because it is generally too cold to not have a quilt on me but I sweat under the 20 degree quilt so I can't keep it on me.

I am thinking of getting a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite pad which should save me a few ounces and hopefully be more comfortable and a 50 degree quilt from Enlightened Equipment. I will get the long quilt so it reaches over my head without pulling my leg up like I have to now.

My question is, is there anything better I should look at? I am aware of what this stuff costs. I am not rich by any stretch but I can budget for nice hiking gear. I will never have the nicest car made or the biggest house, but dammit I can have the best sleeping pad or quilt made.

Venchka

11-19-2016, 23:55

Just Bill has created a mini encyclopedia on quilts in that temperature range in a couple of recent threads on the subject. Search for them.
Personally, I manage to sleep through the night, side sleeper & very unlevel locations, on a NeoAir Xterm Large and a 20 degree bag in temps from high 40s to mid 20s. The coldest measured temp has been 25.
Wayne

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hikingjim

11-19-2016, 23:57

If you are going in 50+ degree weather, getting a 50 quilt will be a good start. Sure you can vent a 20f quilt, kick your feet out, etc, but it's not ideal, harder to manage, and wasted weight.

I get the arms falling asleep issue sometimes too. Quite annoying. It's usually when I tuck my hand or arm underneath my leg or body. I have this issue on all the mats I've used, but I know how to avoid it

ggreaves

11-19-2016, 23:58

Give a hammock a try. You happen to own one of the best pads for hammocks (Klymit Static V) already. Underinflate it a little bit. You'll be very comfortable and sleep through the night.

Odd Man Out

11-20-2016, 00:10

I'm in much the same boat. I take one or two trips per summer and have always had a hard time sleeping through the night. I use a Static V and Underground Quilt 40 deg. Long so I can pull over head. I too have problems with my arms. I think it is key to have a wide pad. The static v is wider than most which helps. Un fortunately most wide pads are also extra long. As a side sleeper, I need a good pillow. I recently added a Sea To Summit deluxe pillow. That helped.

AfterParty

11-20-2016, 00:35

Pad in the hammock will create condensation. Under inflating one is quite comfy in the hammock. But it won't help.

cmoulder

11-20-2016, 08:28

I have had a similar problem and I hate narrow air mats and the resulting D.E.S. — Dangling Elbow Syndrome. And the hot quilt in the summer.

Solution for me is a Neoair Trekker in the torso/wide format, which is 47" x 25" and an EE Rev 50, with the footbox that can be completely unzipped so that it essentially becomes a simple blanket.

The key with the torso-length mat is, as mentioned above, to inflate it just enough to keep you off the ground when you lie down on it so that it better conforms to, and supports, body contours. I put my empty pack under my lower legs for a little support, and there is minimal drop-off from the minimally inflated air mat.

I also use an Exped UL pillow, medium, with an elastic strap to hold it in place on the air mat.

This entire sleep setup weighs 26.1 oz — 13 oz for the Trekker, 11.3 oz for the Rev 50 and 1.8 oz for the pillow+strap.

dreamweaver21

11-20-2016, 09:33

HeartFire

11-20-2016, 09:48

I always bring a sleeping bag liner - not silk, mine is 'cool max', Cocoon brand, I've had it for years. In the winter, I'm inside the liner, inside my bag (an EE quilt). If it's too warm for that, the liner is used as a 'bottom sheet' - I put my neo air inside the liner and I sleep on top of that with the quilt covering me , or, I will just use the liner as my sleeping bag.

I also bought an x-large neo air the 25 inch wide version, and rimmed it down shorter for me. It works great. There is a you tube on how to shorten it.

As far as ratings on quilts -not only are they meaningless, it's also a very individual thing. Some people sleep cold, others not, so the ratings are rather meaningless, you can apply all the scientific measurements you want to it, but you still have to try it out - I have a 30* ee quilt, I find it's good to about 45*, I have a 15* mountain hardware bag, it's good down to way way below 0*.

same with shoes, they can measure your feet 6 ways to tomorrow - you still have to try them on to see if they work for your feet.

Greenlight

11-20-2016, 09:49

Having looked over your whole post and the question you really want answered, I think your gear upgrade for this year is pretty logical. You're sweating because you're asking too much of your 20 degree quilt. There are also new sleeping bags out there that have a pocket for the sleeping pad and less insulation underneath because the pad stays in place. If I was sleeping on the ground instead of in the trees, I'd probably try one of those. As a stomach/side sleeper, I've also trained myself to put my left arm (the one I usually pin while sleeping) by my side instead of underneath me. It has helped a lot. If your lighter quilt and new pad don't work well for you this year, maybe try the setup I mentioned the season after. They're sure to have made advances on the design by then, too.

DuneElliot

11-20-2016, 09:55

As a stomach/side sleeper also I often struggle with sleeping too. I am in the process of trying a hammock to see if I like it. I have heard from many many hammockers that are side and stomach sleepers that they have no issues with falling asleep on their back in their hammocks and staying asleep. It might be worth getting an inexpensive one from Dutch to try and home before investing in all the quilts and stuff.

nsherry61

11-20-2016, 10:30

A few thoughts that might help.
1) A 20* quilt for 3-season use is for people that want only one quilt and are afraid of getting cold, and thus spend too much time being hot. I think of a 50* quilt as a summer quilt when I can pick and choose my weather. I would think a 50* quilt would frequently be chilly along the AT in the summer or need to be supplemented with warmer clothing than you would otherwise need to bring for a summer AT hike. I would think a 40* quilt would probably be more effective. . . but then, I have never hiked the southern AT in the summer so take it for what it's worth.
2) If you haven't already done so, I would recommend going into an outfitter somewhere and spend some significant time laying on the different mattresses you are thinking about trying out so you don't buy one that doesn't work. It's surprising how comfortable and/or uncomfortable mattresses can be that you would have thought would be uncomfortable or comfortable from reviews and specs.
3) When I haven't been sleeping on the ground for a while, it takes my body some time to get used to it and comfortable. With short trips being the norm, it's hard to get your body hardened to ground sleeping before the trip is over. Some people sleep in the mattress on the floor or in the back yard for a few nights prior to a trip to help their bodies prepared.
4) The NeoAir X-lite is a great family of pads. Others worth considering for comfort are the Big-Agnes Q-core SLX - much thicker than the NeoAir and less bouncy than most other thicker pads. Sea-to-Summit pads are shockingly comfortable for many people in spite of their thinness and their weight.
5) You could plan on buying several pads from someplace like REI with a great return policy, then sleep on each one on your floor at home for a few nights until you found the best one for you.

Good luck.

Secondmouse

11-20-2016, 14:46

here's a theory - I suspect you are getting cold from the uninsulated mattress and compensating by using a heavier cover. the ground in spring is colder than the ground in summer or fall. I bet you would get better service out of a mildly insulated mattress in the R2-4 range and a lighter quilt, but 40* instead of 50*...

ggreaves

11-20-2016, 16:54

Pad in the hammock will create condensation. Under inflating one is quite comfy in the hammock. But it won't help.

As someone who's spent hundreds of nights in a hammock in temps ranging from -25F to over 100F, this statement is ridiculous. A pad in a hammock doesn't create any more condensation than a pad on the ground. By your logic, all people, including tent dwellers should be ditching pads, period. BTW, using an underquilt in a hammock allows you to do just that.

ggreaves

11-20-2016, 16:58

I like the idea of a hammock because I don't care for shelters and it seems like it would be easier to find two spaced out trees than a nice flat tent site. I can't see sleeping on my stomach in one though. Seems like they are made for back sleepers and side sleepers.

Worst arm asleep experience I had was I somehow managed to tuck both my arms under me and they both went numb. I woke up and couldn't get either one out from under me. I ended up rolling my torso over with my legs and then laying there a couple of minutes while I regained feeling and use of my arms.

I side sleep and stomach sleep at home in bed. That's the only way I can find a comfortable position. But, being completely supported everywhere with no pressure points in a hammock, I'm very comfortable back-sleeping. My advice to people who won't try hammocks because they're "side-sleepers" is to try it for a few nights on your back. You'll find you will wake up refreshed and it will be morning and you won't believe you slept through the night without moving.

ggreaves

11-20-2016, 17:03

orthofingers

11-20-2016, 17:47

Yup, that's been my experience too. I mostly sleep on my stomach or side at home in my bed but in my hammock (Blackbird XLC), I seem to get a great sleep on my back. I do side sleep some in the XLC as well.

Kaptainkriz

11-20-2016, 19:36

I find that a good pillow helped my comfort much more than I expected, even my arms. I sleep side/stomach and was quite uncomfortable no matter what I did until I added the pillow. I'm using the Aeros premium combined with an xTherm pad.

jcamp

11-20-2016, 20:08

Agreed with the pillow being a pretty valuable item. I don't even like a pillow that much at home, but there is something about the luxury/warmth on the trail. I got a hammock gear down pillow. Light. Compressible. And it makes not having a hood on a quilt so much nicer.

MuddyWaters

11-20-2016, 20:32

Put your shoes where you can rest elbows on them to help with dangling arm syndrome.

With enough time you get used to sleeping on anything. I usually use xlite short with small piece ccf under lower legs. I sleep better on full length, but I do fine on short

cmoulder

11-21-2016, 08:17

Put your shoes where you can rest elbows on them to help with dangling arm syndrome.

I tried the shoes-under-elbows trick but it didn't work for me. And the mummy shape of the xlite shortie slipped out from under me all night like a greased pig.

Glad I discovered the short-wide Trekker in the rectangle shape with horizontal baffles as that is what works best for me. While I love the Trekker, I was able to get an older rectangle-shaped long/wide Neoair original thru gear swap and cut it down to the exact same size as the Trekker. It weighs 10.4 oz and is my favorite for 3-season.

Bowzman7

12-11-2016, 18:49

If you put some 1 inch strips of silicon adhesive on bottom of your air pad it wont slip out or slide around

MuddyWaters

12-11-2016, 19:17

I tried the shoes-under-elbows trick but it didn't work for me. And the mummy shape of the xlite shortie slipped out from under me all night like a greased pig.

Glad I discovered the short-wide Trekker in the rectangle shape with horizontal baffles as that is what works best for me. While I love the Trekker, I was able to get an older rectangle-shaped long/wide Neoair original thru gear swap and cut it down to the exact same size as the Trekker. It weighs 10.4 oz and is my favorite for 3-season.

The xlite short is very narrow at bottom thigh length. dont know why they make thigh as narrow as foot normally is when make a short pad, but some knucklehead thinks thats how you do it.
I sleep fine on it. I prefer long one, but mostly use the short due to 7.6 oz wt. My head is usually on my shoes /spare clothing sack to have as much pad beneath me as possible. Tips of shoes under the pad to incline it a little

ldsailor

12-21-2016, 17:54

There are also new sleeping bags out there that have a pocket for the sleeping pad and less insulation underneath because the pad stays in place. If I was sleeping on the ground instead of in the trees, I'd probably try one of those.

You are talking about the Big Agnes "system." I have it and used it this year for 530 miles NOBO from Springer. You're right about the thermal characteristics. There is no insulation in the bottom of the bag because BA says the pad provides insulation. That may be true, but I was cold in April (30 degree bag). I bought a fleece liner and that solved the problem. When weather got warmer in May, I didn't use the liner and it was perfect for sleeping. The sleeping bag is a Gunn Creek, which is a rectangular bag, so plenty of room to move around on the pad BA sells to go with the bag. Best of all, you can't roll off the pad.

Gambit McCrae

12-21-2016, 18:08

I can only tell you what works very well for me:

Montbell UL spiral stretch down bag ( temp rating of your choice)
Exped LW pad (lots of options) - I have had more durable luck with Big Agnes quilted pad
Sea to summit luxery inflatable pillow

EARPLUGS

dreamweaver21

12-22-2016, 22:42

Update on this:

I ordered a 50 degree EE quilt. I thought about going 40 degree but I already have a 20 and really during my last trip at least, if i put my thermals on, I really only wanted a sheet on me. The 50 degree quilt should be good. I did go for the long so I could get it over my head without pulling my legs up. I also added a touch to the width because it was almost no weight and should make it easier to keep the drafts out.

I still haven't bought a new pad though.

Engine

12-23-2016, 08:20

The xlite short is very narrow at bottom thigh length. dont know why they make thigh as narrow as foot normally is when make a short pad, but some knucklehead thinks thats how you do it....

Exactly the problem I had with that pad. What genius thinks a pad should be wider at the head than at the hips? A true lightweight 20x48 (when inflated) rectangular pad would be something I would probably grab if it ever came to market.

Cheyou

12-23-2016, 08:56

Exactly the problem I had with that pad. What genius thinks a pad should be wider at the head than at the hips? A true lightweight 20x48 (when inflated) rectangular pad would be something I would probably grab if it ever came to market.

You could cut down a full size to your "dream" size . I have a short xtherm ,don't think it's made anymore. Very warm and works great for me as a side sleeping quilt user.

Thom

Engine

12-23-2016, 09:08

You could cut down a full size to your "dream" size . I have a short xtherm ,don't think it's made anymore. Very warm and works great for me as a side sleeping quilt user.

Thom

I have seen Youtube videos of people doing that and it looks easy, but I have a hard time rationalizing the purchasing of a new pad and immediately hacking into. If I ever find a great deal on a used one, I might give it a go.

Engine

12-23-2016, 09:09

cmoulder

12-23-2016, 09:55

Exactly the problem I had with that pad. What genius thinks a pad should be wider at the head than at the hips? A true lightweight 20x48 (when inflated) rectangular pad would be something I would probably grab if it ever came to market.

You could get a neoair trekker and cut it down. However I understand your aversion to slicing into a brand-new air mat.

Alternatively, the Trekker also comes in a 25"x47" version that weighs 13oz.

I would guess that a 20"x47" would weigh about 11.5oz. I have a brand new Trekker in the 20"x72" size that I would cut down to 20"x47" (inflated length) and send to you for $90. Or cut it down yourself, if you want. PM if interested.

Sandy of PA

12-23-2016, 12:22

It really is not hard to cut down a Neo-air, you just have to make sure it is a good one before you do it. No warranty, a risk I take to carry the perfect custom sleeping pad. I have cut down the All-season, X-lite, and X-therm all in the large size to get the 25 inch width. No leaks, use whichever one matches my trip. Full length for me is 65 inches, no need to carry 77 inches just to keep my body parts fully on the mat.

cmoulder

12-23-2016, 13:55

True, it's really not a difficult or tricky mod. But with some of these air mats costing north of $200... well, there's a bit of a 'pucker factor' the first time, lol. :eek:

It builds confidence to do some test runs with the hot iron with the leftover end after cutting. But I have a couple of modified mats with a lot of nights on them with no problems. My pride and joy is a cut down old-school NeoAir the same size as my torso/wide Trekker, and it weighs 10.4oz. Ahhh... to have exactly what you're aiming for!