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TSWisla
11-20-2016, 21:41
I have tried some section hikes with a partner and I have come to a crossroad. I am either going to go alone or I am done with backpacking the AT. I am ready to head out alone, but even after 4 year and 4 section hikes, I still have some reservations. I am still concerned with bears. I have read at least 1 article from this year alone describing a hiker being pulled from his tent by a bear. This leads me to want to camp near other hikers, but I despise the though of the vermin found in shelters crawling over me all night long. I realize that out of 1000s of hikers, one or two may be attacked, but it bothers me. Am I thinking about this all wrong?

Another issue that I am having is that I can't get comfortable on my pad at night. I have a Thermarest Neo Xlite pad and I use 2 small pillows. I use a quilt from Enlightened. What am I doing wrong? I simply can't seem to get any sleep at night.

Any ideas or words of wisdom?

Slosteppin
11-20-2016, 22:01
I've been mostly a solo hiker for the last 15 years. I never have food in my tent or hammock whichever I am using. One of the first things I do when I get to camp is get a rope up to hang my food. I generally cook at least 100 feet from my sleeping area. My food bag is always hung at least 200 feet away.
To my knowledge I've never had a bear near my sleeping area at night. I know there are bears in the area. I have found tracks in my yard and on the nearby NCT in sandy areas.

I have to wonder when I hear of a bear invading a tent if the hiker had food in the tent.

Do you worry about noises outside at night? Ear plugs might help. I read a Kindle until I get sleepy. It turns off when I don't turn a page for a while. Sometimes if I hike far enough I'm too tired to read.

imscotty
11-20-2016, 22:04
TSWisia, my words will probably not help you with your bear fears, but a little research should convince you that this would be an extremely unlikely event. You probably go about your daily life successfully without fear of lightning strikes, drowning in the bathtub, and popping champagne corks, but the truth is all these things are much, much more likely to kill you than a bear. With reasonable food precautions you should be able to sleep safe and sound at night.

And I would not restrict my camping to shelters, if anything it is the area around shelters that some bears have associated with food. I always sleep better knowing that I am away from shelters and the vermin they attract.

As to the comfort question, why don't you see if you sleep better in a hammock. There is a learning curve, and it is not for everyone, but I found hammock hanging a vast improvement6 over the ground.

Scott

Time Zone
11-20-2016, 22:24
Ideas: Can you sleep well on the pad with quilt at home? If so ... consider taking a benadryl at night. Watch your caffeine intake; try to gradually reduce it. A corollary to "hunger is the best seasoning": "if you're tired enough you will fall asleep." Also, the great outdoors can be surprisingly loud compared to a modern home. Consider earplugs; make sure they're soft. I find the yellow foam cylinder ones work the best but aren't so comfortable. The squishy foam bullet-shaped ones are nearly as good, and far more comfortable.

If you can't sleep on your ground gear at home, try hammocking. I did. Unfortunately, it appears that it's probably not for me ... but for many it is. I'm one of the unlucky few. If you can sleep on your back that really helps. Not strictly necessary, but definitely helps. If possible, try before you buy. Borrow, and have the lender show you how to set up, or check out the website The Ultimate Hang. good luck.

TSWisla
11-20-2016, 22:56
Thank you for the replies. I have NEVER slept with food in my tent. I follow all of the precautions that you do. This article put me over the top though http://www.wbir.com/news/local/appalachian-trail-hiker-describes-agonizing-bear-attack1/216960737 The earplugs sound like a great idea if I can get past the horror of waking up with a bear chewing on my leg like the guy in the article did.

You would not have any issues just pitching a tent away from a shelter and just going to bed, knowing that no one would be around if a bear would attack? I guess that I have to change my state of mind. I realize that I have a better chance of being in a traffic accident on my way to the trailhead, but the idea of waking up to a bear munching on my leg...

mattjv89
11-20-2016, 23:19
Thank you for the replies. I have NEVER slept with food in my tent. I follow all of the precautions that you do. This article put me over the top though http://www.wbir.com/news/local/appalachian-trail-hiker-describes-agonizing-bear-attack1/216960737 The earplugs sound like a great idea if I can get past the horror of waking up with a bear chewing on my leg like the guy in the article did.

You would not have any issues just pitching a tent away from a shelter and just going to bed, knowing that no one would be around if a bear would attack?

I think the important take away from that article is the guy fought the bear off simply by shouting at it. If anything I'm less concerned about encountering a bear when pitched far away from a shelter. They gravitate more towards shelters and other high use areas with a consistent supply of people food.

Old Hiker
11-20-2016, 23:26
I have this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RFG0NM/ref=abs_brd_tag_dp?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

My closed cell pad no longer did it for me, but the above does great.

Go alone - I spent 85-90% of 7 months and 4 days of my hike in my tent, sometimes near a shelter, most times not. Saw 2 bears on the Trail in the Shenandoah NP. Never saw, nor heard one at night.

You can always find people to camp near if you want.

Praha4
11-20-2016, 23:47
it's usually better to start alone. You will meet other hikers on the trial you can join, or leave, when you want, with no obligations.

I've seen many pairs or groups who started together and within a couple weeks were at each other's throats, squabbling, arguing....and ended up splitting up.

don't give up backpacking, it's one of the best forms of exercise on the planet

happy trails

Venchka
11-20-2016, 23:51
Bypass the Smokies.
Wayne


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Dogwood
11-20-2016, 23:56
"Any ideas or words of wisdom?"

Yeah, you've identified coming to a crossroads. Make a decision, trust it, move forward...

You've identified some dissatisfactions. Don't be limited by negative incessant pondering on these. Be solution minded. Everything you've said has answers. Find what's appropriate and move forward.

These will serve you well in life's endeavors.

PaulWorksHard
11-21-2016, 00:10
After a few weeks on the trail, I fell asleep almost instantly. Picking a good flat spot was the most important, and in some places, most difficult issue. Try inflating your mattress more or less than usual and see if that helps. Do a thru hike, do it alone and camp by yourself whenever possible. Plenty of time during the day to see and chat with people, if you want. Enjoy.

TSWisla
11-21-2016, 00:35
I am not worried about being lonely or talking with people. I would even rather not talk to anyone. I am concerned with camping away from shelters and not having anyone to help me in the case of an emergency (bear attack, etc.) At the same time, I don't want to stay in shelters due to noise, vermin, etc. I realize that there is no good answer to this, but I am simply trying to work this out in my mind. I want to continue hiking, badly, but only if I can work through these issues. Thank you.

Sarcasm the elf
11-21-2016, 00:41
You're not going to get attacked by a bear.

I repeat: You are not going to get attacked by a bear.

You can re-word this statement in any way you need to in order for it to sink in, but you just need to accept it.

MuddyWaters
11-21-2016, 00:47
Think of it this way

You chances of being seriously injured by a bear, are less than being seriously injured in a car accident on way to trail.

So put out of your mind

You will either die from heart attack, murder, fall, or hypothermia first most likely, ....statistically speaking....of course.

Embrace the risk, the uncertainty. Its what its all about.

Sarcasm the elf
11-21-2016, 00:51
To add to my previously comment, what worked for me was to have bear encounter and watch them run like heck at the very sight of a big scary human.

Barring that, I'd recommend giving the site below a good read, especially the parts about myths and misconceptions about bears and humans. One of the most basic take aways is that black bears are not carnivores, they are plant heavy omnivores that eat meat as a secondary food source. Black bears are also not a dominant predator, they were only midway up the food chain until humans came in and killed off all the more dangerous species. The reason black bears survive to this day is because their natural instinct when confronted by another predator (and humans are unequivocally predators) is to run away first and ask questions later. If they had posed a consistant threat to humans then early man would have been driven to extinction the same way we did to dire wolves, the short-nosed bear, the american lion, and many other more dangerous predators that used to inhabit the land that is now the Eastern United States. Basically we allowed black bears to live because they were mostly harmless.

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/basic-bear-facts.html

Time Zone
11-21-2016, 07:48
Thank you for the replies. I have NEVER slept with food in my tent. I follow all of the precautions that you do. This article put me over the top though http://www.wbir.com/news/local/appalachian-trail-hiker-describes-agonizing-bear-attack1/216960737 The earplugs sound like a great idea if I can get past the horror of waking up with a bear chewing on my leg like the guy in the article did.

You would not have any issues just pitching a tent away from a shelter and just going to bed, knowing that no one would be around if a bear would attack? I guess that I have to change my state of mind. I realize that I have a better chance of being in a traffic accident on my way to the trailhead, but the idea of waking up to a bear munching on my leg...

The only way to guarantee no bear attack is to stay home. If you're going to go, the best you can do is minimize an already-low probability. Carry bear spray in bear country.

Time Zone
11-21-2016, 08:06
I am not worried about being lonely or talking with people. I would even rather not talk to anyone. I am concerned with camping away from shelters and not having anyone to help me in the case of an emergency (bear attack, etc.) At the same time, I don't want to stay in shelters due to noise, vermin, etc. I realize that there is no good answer to this, but I am simply trying to work this out in my mind. I want to continue hiking, badly, but only if I can work through these issues. Thank you.

You probably could find a spot to camp away from shelters and all their associated downsides, but within earshot of a loud whistle you could have at the head of your bed. I forget what the conventional wisdom is here in terms of distance/minutes from the shelter, but point is, you could find a happy medium.

Have you considered a dog as a hiking companion/early warning system?

Puddlefish
11-21-2016, 10:01
I am not worried about being lonely or talking with people. I would even rather not talk to anyone. I am concerned with camping away from shelters and not having anyone to help me in the case of an emergency (bear attack, etc.) At the same time, I don't want to stay in shelters due to noise, vermin, etc. I realize that there is no good answer to this, but I am simply trying to work this out in my mind. I want to continue hiking, badly, but only if I can work through these issues. Thank you.

You're far less likely to run into bears at night when you camp away from a shelter. The tentsites away from the shelters were far cleaner than the tentsites near the shelters. Legal stealth camping sites 200 feet from the trail were by far the most peaceful, scenic and clean camping experiences I had. If you do see a bear that's far away from a shelter, it will be a nice wild bear that has no interest in eating you. It will be busy tearing apart rotted trees for the insects, or foraging for wild food, and just generally doing wild bear things.

The only problem I encountered with bears from George to Virginia was in the GSMNP. A lot of idiot people have created a lot of problem bears that associate shelters with food.

I ended up mixing it up, I'd socialize some nights tenting in designated sites, and stealth camp the next night to give myself a break from noisy people. You'll find a method that works for you.

HooKooDooKu
11-21-2016, 10:55
I have read at least 1 article from this year alone describing a hiker being pulled from his tent by a bear.

Let's see if we can show how rare bears are a problem:

The article you were reading about was the camper attacked near Spence Field shelter in GSMNP. Just the previous year, a teenager was dragged from his hammock by a black bear at a campsite located less than 9 miles away from Spence Field (just the other end of Jenkins Ridge trail). 16 years ago, a woman was killed in the Elkmont section of GSMNP. Those are the three top major bear attacks in GSMNP for the last 20 years... an area that likely has the greatest concentration of bears along the entire AT... and the greatest density of human visitors. So I would hazard a guess that if you see a bear at all, GSMNP is the most likely spot, and even then, I would guess (based on 20 years experience camping in GSMNP) that you have less than a 1:5 chance of seeing a bear while in GSMNP.

Here's another way to look at it: Check out the list of fatal bear attacks in North America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America).
If you look at the details of the list, there have been about 12 fatal bear attacks in states the AT passes thru. Of those deaths, most of them involved a captive bear (such as a zoo, including two polar bears) or freak hunting accident ("...started skinning a bear he had just shot when it awoke and attacked..."). Only about three of them had anything to do with people in the back country... and that's over a time period of 100 years.

By contrast, this artical (http://adventurepossible.com/adventure/murder-on-the-appalachian-trail/) lists something on the order of about a dozen murders that have occured near or along the AT. So if you are going to be afraid of anything, you need to be more afraid of humans than you need to be afraid of bears.

The only other thing I can think to say to try to help ally your fears... If you are attacked and seriously wounded or killed by a bear along the AT, you will make national news. Do you really believe that your AT hike (out of the thousands of others) is going to make national news? I don't think so.


Now I'll admit that when I go to sleep at nights on camping trips in GSMNP, I do have a small worry about bears. It's perhaps one of the reasons I generally don't sleep in my tent with ear plugs (the only time I ever have has been when surrounded by a large group of campers at a front country campsite. But I allow my higher reasoning powers to overcome those primeval fears to allow my self to enjoy the back country.


The other thing I can say... when I did a thru hike of the JMT, I was usually tired enough at the end of a long day of hiking 15+miles that I was pretty much too tired to care about bears.

saltysack
11-21-2016, 11:18
I've been in the woods in one form or another since I was a young boy and now 42.......over 1,000+ miles hiking....I've only seen a few bears and none on the AT.....

I've seen a few bears in Florida, a few on the JMT and 1 on the FHT. None on the AT....with that said I hike with my dog and haven't done any miles in GSNP....hoping to see some in SNP in a few weeks....embrace wildlife don't be afraid of it....I'd consider myself lucky if I see one....


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swisscross
11-21-2016, 11:27
Think of it this way

You chances of being seriously injured by a bear, are less than being seriously injured in a car accident on way to trail.

So put out of your mind

You will either die from heart attack, murder, fall, or hypothermia first most likely, ....statistically speaking....of course.

Embrace the risk, the uncertainty. Its what its all about.

Murder? That is comforting!

BobTheBuilder
11-21-2016, 11:41
I have found that hammock camping near a shelter is a pretty reasonable solution. I sleep much better in a hammock that I did either in a tent or a shelter, and not getting any sleep makes for a miserable hike. Since you only need two trees the right size and distance apart, you don't need to set up at an established tent site. I have never seen any leftover trash near my spot, so no rodents or varmints.

I hang near the shelters primarily for the water supply and picnic table for cooking, but it would also work if you wanted to be within shouting distance of other people. It isn't something I worry about, but the brain is a powerful organ, and if yours is keeping you awake worrying, all the statistics in the world won't help you sleep.

K2 Travels
11-21-2016, 12:01
Just do something simple like carrying bear spray or sleeping with a large stick/club. You'd be surprised how something like this could help your mental state.

Also black bears when the they do attack are not "attacking" in the sense you think of. They are more curiously nibbling on you to see what it is and if you are indeed more food. Some really loud yelling and a few whacks from a fist/foot or even better a sharp/heavy stick will most likely send them running. Remember black bears do not have to fight for their food in their normal lives so they are unlikely to choose to do so for you.

Basically just take something that is a comforting item for you to relieve these bear worries of yours. After some time will may choose to leave them at home.

Good luck.

PS: Don't get eaten by a bear but if you do how much cooler would that be/sound than most people's deaths!? Legend in your family for decades ; )

Puddlefish
11-21-2016, 12:43
Just remember, you're statistically more like to die from a cow attack than a shark attack. Black bear attacks are way down the list of things to worry about at any time in your life.

On the other hand, there are some cows on the AT, so don't mess with them.

HooKooDooKu
11-21-2016, 13:15
I have found that hammock camping near a shelter is a pretty reasonable solution.

Solution to what?
The top three major bear attacks in GSMNP have been:
#1: Death back in 2000 of a Day Hiker in the Elkmont Area.
#2: Teenager dragged from his hammock in the middle of the night in a predatory attack.
#3: Incident OP related about hiker bit thru his tent.

A hammock doesn't offer anymore protection than a tent.

Hikingjim
11-21-2016, 13:22
Just remember, you're statistically more like to die from a cow attack than a shark attack. Black bear attacks are way down the list of things to worry about at any time in your life.

On the other hand, there are some cows on the AT, so don't mess with them.

That's why I put my hammock 10 feet in the air. Can't get a good rest knowing there are murderous cows nearby

Engine
11-21-2016, 13:28
Maybe I've been luckier than most, but I have seen literally dozens of bears while backpacking. One in Shanandoah and every single other siting occurred in the Smokies. Now for the good part...I've had them come in to camp, I've seen them beside the trail, and I actually almost walked into a baer once as it crossed the trail in thick blueberry bushes about 18" in front of me. As Sarcasm the elf stated a few posts back, the bear was always more afraid of me than I was of it...I look upon a bear encounter as a gift, not a burden or something to be feared.

Now, for the sleeping part. You don't say why you cannot get comfortable, so it's hard to give advise. If the pad isn't cushioned enough, try letting a bit of air out...it's common for people to complain about an overinflated pad. On the other hand, if it's allowing your hips or shoulders to sink through, try adding air or getting a thicker pad. Something like the Nemo Tensor which is similar to the Neoair but is 1/2" thicker when inflated. Also, maybe you just need a bigger pad which will allow you to toss and turn a bit while remaining on the pad. Most manufacturers make a wide pad, 25" vs 20" for a regular.

Also, please don't take offense to this, but is it possible you aren't sleeping well because of your overt fear of bears? Just a thought...

saltysack
11-21-2016, 13:46
Maybe I've been luckier than most, but I have seen literally dozens of bears while backpacking. One in Shanandoah and every single other siting occurred in the Smokies. Now for the good part...I've had them come in to camp, I've seen them beside the trail, and I actually almost walked into a baer once as it crossed the trail in thick blueberry bushes about 18" in front of me. As Sarcasm the elf stated a few posts back, the bear was always more afraid of me than I was of it...I look upon a bear encounter as a gift, not a burden or something to be feared.

Now, for the sleeping part. You don't say why you cannot get comfortable, so it's hard to give advise. If the pad isn't cushioned enough, try letting a bit of air out...it's common for people to complain about an overinflated pad. On the other hand, if it's allowing your hips or shoulders to sink through, try adding air or getting a thicker pad. Something like the Nemo Tensor which is similar to the Neoair but is 1/2" thicker when inflated. Also, maybe you just need a bigger pad which will allow you to toss and turn a bit while remaining on the pad. Most manufacturers make a wide pad, 25" vs 20" for a regular.

Also, please don't take offense to this, but is it possible you aren't sleeping well because of your overt fear of bears? Just a thought...

Good point...switching from a 20" pad to 25" helped...now need to find a damn pillow I like!


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theinfamousj
11-21-2016, 14:16
I have to wonder when I hear of a bear invading a tent if the hiker had food in the tent.

Black bears understand proximity possession. If it is near you, it is yours. Which makes feeding the captive ones interest, because you have to bowl those cabbages way far away from you before they will take the chance of accepting that the cabbage is for them.

So, I am skeptical unless I hear that (a) it is verified by a ranger and not just some tall tale trail gossip or (b) it wasn't a black bear.

Now a moose, elk, or insistent raccoon on the other hand...

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theinfamousj
11-21-2016, 14:25
http://www.wbir.com/news/local/appalachian-trail-hiker-describes-agonizing-bear-attack1/216960


So, that article has an animal with a strong jaw biting the guy on his leg and refusing to leave, which he only *assumed* was a bear. And then the saliva didn't DNA match the bear in whose territory the man was attacked. Which weakens his claim of bear. As does the claim that the teeth were the first thing he felt on his leg. Bears use their lips, first. And you'd notice the lips.

I am betting raccoon, dog, or mountain lion.

You'd be surprised the number and variety of animals who are mistaken for a bear or a shark, because that is what the fearful tent inhabitant or swimmer is expecting it to be. Of my own personal experience, I have seen several raccoons and a DUCK all called bears. And there was a crocodile who called a shark.

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theinfamousj
11-21-2016, 14:27
Er. Not a crocodile. An alligator. NC has gators, silly me.

Wasn't but a few years back that all the shark attacks on the NC coast, with witnesses nonetheless, were caused by a rather large and horribly lost gator who had gone swimming out to sea.

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TSWisla
11-21-2016, 19:22
Maybe I've been luckier than most, but I have seen literally dozens of bears while backpacking. One in Shanandoah and every single other siting occurred in the Smokies. Now for the good part...I've had them come in to camp, I've seen them beside the trail, and I actually almost walked into a baer once as it crossed the trail in thick blueberry bushes about 18" in front of me. As Sarcasm the elf stated a few posts back, the bear was always more afraid of me than I was of it...I look upon a bear encounter as a gift, not a burden or something to be feared.

Now, for the sleeping part. You don't say why you cannot get comfortable, so it's hard to give advise. If the pad isn't cushioned enough, try letting a bit of air out...it's common for people to complain about an overinflated pad. On the other hand, if it's allowing your hips or shoulders to sink through, try adding air or getting a thicker pad. Something like the Nemo Tensor which is similar to the Neoair but is 1/2" thicker when inflated. Also, maybe you just need a bigger pad which will allow you to toss and turn a bit while remaining on the pad. Most manufacturers make a wide pad, 25" vs 20" for a regular.

Also, please don't take offense to this, but is it possible you aren't sleeping well because of your overt fear of bears? Just a thought...

Not offended at all. The idea is very bothersome to me, but the main reason that I can't sleep is that I can't seem to get comfortable on my mattress. Thank you for all of the ideas and support.

Kaptainkriz
11-21-2016, 19:29
Coincinence I just posted this on another thread: I find that a good pillow helped my comfort much more than I expected. I sleep side/stomach and was quite uncomfortable no matter what I did until I added the pillow. I'm using the Aeros premium combined with an xTherm pad.

Maineiac64
11-21-2016, 20:19
A fear need not be rational to be difficult to overcome. The statistics quoted here point to a low probability of a bear issue but it is higher than zero. I recall that the victim of the last attack was near a shelter but had properly stored his food. So even though the liklihood is remote, to overcome the fear I believe you have to take all the right precautions to limit an encounter and be prepared in the remote chance something happens (bear spray, other campers nearby, etc.). Of course, a shot or two of nice whiskey and ear plugs always helps to get to sleep quickly too.

nsherry61
11-21-2016, 20:41
Just remember, you're statistically more like to die from a cow attack than a shark attack. . .
Especially while hiking the AT!

TSWisla
12-02-2016, 07:58
How far away from a shelter do you think that one would have to sleep to avoid mice?

Engine
12-02-2016, 09:45
I've had a few mice show up on occasion even when miles away from a shelter, but it's part of being outdoors and I've never had anything seriously damaged. If you are camped in a location which sees frequent use, there are likely to be more mice around.

Now, as far as shelters go, we spent a night at the Mount Collins shelter fighting what seemed to be an army of mice. In all seriousness, it was ridiculous...I've also stayed in shelters which probably had some mice, but we never saw any. In general, we'll hike an extra hour to get past a shelter to a nice spot that isn't as frequently used and they're never a problem. You avoid both the mice and the snoring that way. :)

troubletrev
12-03-2016, 02:22
Despite what most on here would say, I completely understand your Bear concerns. The Statistics didn't mean much to me when I encountered 3,4 different 300 pound plus Bears this summer on my hike from Springer to Franklin. NOT all ran at the sound of my voice. Be weary of Bears who have become accustomed to Human activity. All the Bears which I encountered, I saw within a 3 mile radius of the nearest town or camprground. Always be prepared and have a quick subconscious procedure in place in case you do run across one of those "rogue" bears.

dcdennis
12-03-2016, 08:02
just look at the statistics, you are literally 12x more likely to be murdered by a bumblebee than a bear (seriously). Black bears are just big ass chipmunks. they are so afraid of people that some of them even **** themselves when running away from us. also, that one story you read about a bear grabbing a guy in his tent is literally the only time that has ever happened (and been reported) on the AT. So your stat of '1 of thousands of people' is grossly understated. 5.8 million people hike the AT every year, and only one person has ever been attacked like that. EVER.

egilbe
12-03-2016, 11:29
Better odds of winning poweball than getting bit by a bear. I play the lottery. I dont worry about bears.

TSWisla
12-05-2016, 21:07
Ok, I am starting to feel better about the bear thing. I am hiking from NOC to Newfoundland Gap in late April, so that is why I am so worried. I will probably not take any food that needs to be cooked, just to be on the safe side. I will be required to sleep at or near shelters on this upcoming trip, so aside from bears, I want to do what I can to avoid mice. If I camp 10 yards away from a shelter, do you think that I will need to be "battling an army of mice"?

egilbe
12-05-2016, 21:22
Ok, I am starting to feel better about the bear thing. I am hiking from NOC to Newfoundland Gap in late April, so that is why I am so worried. I will probably not take any food that needs to be cooked, just to be on the safe side. I will be required to sleep at or near shelters on this upcoming trip, so aside from bears, I want to do what I can to avoid mice. If I camp 10 yards away from a shelter, do you think that I will need to be "battling an army of mice"?

Yes. Mice can travel

rafe
12-05-2016, 21:56
Not sure why, but it took me more than 30 years of hiking before I got to meet a bear in the woods at close hand. And it was exhilarating when it finally happened. Most eastern black bears don't want anything to do with humans and will make themselves scarce when humans approach.

There is no requirement that you stay in shelters, except for GSMNP and Baxter State Park. Most shelters have room for tents nearby. In GSMNP, just show up late to the shelter. If it's full, you don't have to stay in it, and can set up your tent nearby.

More and more AT shelters are now equipped with bear boxes or other bear-safe storage for food bags.

A handful of very experienced hikers with multiple long hikes to their credit say they actually sleep with their food. I've done that a few times and lived to tell the tale. Not recommending it, just sayin'...

Avoid trashy sites and the trashy hikers that create them. The only bears that need concern you are the few who've learned to feast on that trash.

MtDoraDave
12-05-2016, 22:01
Yay, great thread!

I can relate to the OP quite a bit. My hiking partner has bailed on me twice, so my last two trips were solo. Last March in the Smokies, I was only solo while hiking; at shelters each night, plenty of people around.
Two weeks ago, Thanksgiving week, he bailed again, and I hiked 86 or so miles sobo to Damascus, VA. I saw 1 to 2 people per day, and on only one night was there another camper around, in the Partnership shelter.

I share the OP's fear of bears. I realize it is an irrational fear, and in my head I understand that bears are just big raccoons... but all alone at night in the middle of the woods with NO cell service, it can be spooky.

I saw a mama bear and her cubs crossing the trail perhaps a mile nobo from the road that goes to Franklin. They were running away.
In the smokies in the fall, there is bear scat on the trail A LOT. If they ONLY pooped on the trail, there would still be a lot of bears! Saw some that was very fresh, but most is older and breaking down - but the frequency of it gets into my head - "must be a thousand bears around here!"

I also have a lesser fear of mice. I have heard them in several shelters, and seen one in another shelter, but only had one run-in with one. It ran across my head (that was covered with a shirt) in one shelter, ever. That was possibly Stover Creek Shelter, not far north of Springer. Same night, my hiking partner had one borrow a few inches of his shamwow for nest building. That's it. No ruined gear, none in my sleeping bag with me, just a bunch of unnecessary worry.

So I understand that these fears keep me from sleeping well. I sleep better on my Prolite Plus than I did on my ccf pads. I sleep better with a pillow than when I use my clothing bag - but I still am slow to sleep, and wake several times a night.

I have come to the conclusion that I need to spend more than a week in the woods at a time. By the end of one week, I am sleeping a bit better, and hiking longer days. Two weeks should help me do more miles and hopefully become more comfortable sleeping outside.

I used to have a fear of spiders, but working on race cars in my friend's garage every night for a couple years taught me that they aren't coming after me. There were hundreds of them in that garage, but they wanted nothing to do with us.

TSWisla
12-06-2016, 19:47
I too realize that the fear of bears is irrational, but it still bothers me. Dave, you hit it right on the head with the bit about being alone all night with no help around. That is rough.

I have a big problem with mice, not because I "fear" them, but because they are disgusting. It would be horrible to wake up at night only to realize that there is a mouse in your bag with you. I am using a quilt by the way, should I purchase a bag instead? What advice would you have for someone like me who loathes the idea of something crawling all over you while you sleep? I have to come to terms with this if I am going to be forced to sleep in shelters in GSMNP.

egilbe
12-06-2016, 20:05
I killed three mice in my tent the night after the little rodents ate a hole in my pack pouch because I left a snack in it. The night before that, they chewed up my gf's foodbag that was hanging, but couldnt get into her Ursack. I hate mice. I stomp on the little buggers whenever I can find them.

rafe
12-06-2016, 21:43
I have a big problem with mice, not because I "fear" them, but because they are disgusting. It would be horrible to wake up at night only to realize that there is a mouse in your bag with you.

This is why you should hike with a Glock. /jk

MtDoraDave
12-06-2016, 22:23
In all fairness, someone pointed out how unfair it was for me to blame a mouse. SOMETHING ran across my head, it may have been a cute little chipmunk. ;)

The same night, something took a section of my hiking partner's shamwow, and SOMETHING filled the third guy in the shelter's boot up with acorns.

But like I said, mice haven't really been an issue. I've spent perhaps 15 or 20 nights in shelters in my 6 week long trips on the AT. Only once have I had that experience.

ScareBear
12-06-2016, 22:26
This is why you should hike with a Glock. /jk

Nah. Could be in a shelter and someone(likely) other than the mouse(unlikely) and the bag occupant(possible) get shot. Its the innocent shelter occupants I fear for...just sayin...

TSWisla
12-07-2016, 19:15
I am worried about criminals and wild animals more than people legally carrying.

TSWisla
12-07-2016, 19:19
Sleeping in a shelter with a quilt is probably a bad idea. Looks like I have to look for a sleeping bag. Any suggestions?

saltysack
12-07-2016, 19:34
Sleeping in a shelter with a quilt is probably a bad idea. Looks like I have to look for a sleeping bag. Any suggestions?

Really think your worrying to much..can you enjoy being out with all these fears?....you could try a bivy with your quilt...even cheapo made from tyvek or Mylar...as everyone said you're much safer in the woods than in a city!!!


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TSWisla
12-07-2016, 19:39
I don't live in the city! I hate the city. I am concerned because the bottom of the quilt is open of course. Won't the critters have an easy way in? I really should not be concerned with that?

Dogwood
12-07-2016, 20:01
"I realize that out of 1000s of hikers, one or two may be attacked, but it bothers me. Am I thinking about this all wrong?"

YES, you are thinking about this incorrectly. Get a grip, seriously. Don't be a hypochondriac. You're running on emotions and fears rather than facts, knowledge, and wisdom. Get the facts. Verified black bear "attacks" on the AT according to statistics occur at a rate much much higher than one or two attacks in 1000's of hikers. Without providing a long list of statistical links black bear attacks experienced as an AT hiker are estimated by authorities to occur once in every 200,ooo+ hikers and these are not fatal encounters. Fatal encounters are at an even higher degree of chance. Chances of having a black bear attacking you personally or chewing on your leg are significantly, much significantly lower, than having a rampaging tick or careless human transmit disease to you, you falling resulting in injury or death, getting into a car accident if your drive 50 or more miles/wk, having lightning strike you, or you being swept up into the wild blue yonder during the Rapture.


"I am concerned with camping away from shelters and not having anyone to help me in the case of an emergency (bear attack, etc.)"


"Any ideas or words of wisdom?"

YES, seek knowledge and wisdom not unwarranted fear.

RockDoc
12-07-2016, 20:03
I'm concerned with bears too. I never get to see them and I want to see them really bad.

ScareBear
12-07-2016, 20:07
I don't live in the city! I hate the city. I am concerned because the bottom of the quilt is open of course. Won't the critters have an easy way in? I really should not be concerned with that?

In a shelter? Mmmmmm....well.....I don't know. I am not a shelter fan and other than GSMNP, I don't use them. I am not a quilt fan because I cant get used to just me on the mat. I also get that squished down doesn't insulate much, but I just like the "feel" of the sleeping bag v. quilt. It's not a sin, but it's good for almost a pound, I'd say...YMMV...

I suppose an argument could be made for a 30 degree bag being the "universal" bag, if you were only going to spend the bucks on one good bag. Then, I'd decide whether I was going to spend 250 or 450 on the bag. The difference is about a pound.

saltysack
12-07-2016, 21:04
Bears...mice and ticks oh my!!!!!! I'll stay in my house and die from boredom!


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Engine
12-08-2016, 04:56
Guys, the OP has a phobia (or two), but treating it like it's just a stupid reaction will not somehow allow them to see the light and suddenly get over it. My wife had a bad experience as a child and she has a serious phobia regarding water. It can be waist deep and she still starts to hyperventilate and gets almost tearful when she wades through, which makes even a modest creek crossing quite an adventure. I've worked with her for years and if anything, it may be a little worse now than in the past. I see the fear as completely irrational and I've even been so brazen as to tell her it's a dumb fear to have...I won't be doing that again ;).

Phobia: A persistent,abnormal,or irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid the feared stimulus.

Maydog
12-08-2016, 05:11
Hiking with a partner can sometimes lead to conversation. Who needs that?

egilbe
12-08-2016, 08:24
Hiking with a partner can sometimes lead to conversation. Who needs that?

All that chattering going on when I want peace and quiet...


I mentioned to my gf that I like hiking with her because she doesnt talk. May go an hour or two before she has anything to say.

la.lindsey
12-08-2016, 09:42
I don't live in the city! I hate the city. I am concerned because the bottom of the quilt is open of course. Won't the critters have an easy way in? I really should not be concerned with that?

I love sleeping in shelters. And when the weather is 35F or above, i sleep with a quilt.

I've had exactly one mouse crawl through my hair. Now, I'll hear mice in the shelter, scampering around, but generally they don't come that close to these big, loud, moving animals.

My hair, on the other hand, is curly and looks like a rats nest, so I can forgive them the Intrusion. I did have a porcupine chew on my hair once too, but it was hanging off the edge of the shelter so...can't blame him there either.

I'm in the woods at least one weekend a month, usually more. 3 weeks in August, spring break, 10 days in January, 4th of July weekend, etc. Lots of time. If you would like to trawl through my blog posts for every mention of a mouse, you're welcome to: birthdaygirlhikes.com

So, all that said, in my experience, you don't really have to worry about mice or other critters crawling inside a quilt or sleeping bag in a shelter. They're much more interested in your pack or your food bag or your rain jacket with a wrapper left in the pocket.


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rock steady
12-23-2016, 20:41
I have many of same preferences. Bear encounters are rare and you hang your food: the bears are attracted to tents where the food is. You can tent near other tents w/o being too close. I've done some long sections and I didn't encounter problems. PM me if you want to

LibertyBell
12-23-2016, 21:21
TSWisla, don't be worried about bears. I thru hiked the AT this year and the one bear incident I heard about was false. I heard it was a hiker who used Coconut Oil scented lotion and was drug out of his tent. That was a false rumor. Hang all your stuff every night, EVERYTHING. You will not have a problem. I camped by myself almost every night except for the Smokies which was by far the worst part of the trail for me. I did not like being forced to sleep in shelters. Smokers and drinkers and people only out for a couple days partying most of the night. PITA. I only stayed in a shelter 4 or 5 times the rest of the trail. You can camp near the shelters if it makes you more comfortable but still retaining your privacy and a feeling of security. I also use the Thermarest pad. It took a couple weeks to get used to it but I looked forward to it after that. I never heard about an attack on a person. It may have happened but I am not aware of any. As far as your quilt, I started and finished with a Montbell 11 degree bag and a Silk Liner. I used it as a quilt if my Silk Liner was not enough and as it got warmer and I am glad I kept the bag over Franconia and Washington. If you go alone, you will not be alone on the trail unless you want to be. I stealthed most of the time as I wanted the quiet. I usually hiked until almost dark so I could ensure I was camping alone. I enjoyed the AT so much I am going to do it again in 2017. I started March 7th this year and finished July 27th. I plan on starting on the same day in 2017. Happy Trails, Brightside

MuddyWaters
12-23-2016, 21:35
TSWisla, don't be worried about bears. I thru hiked the AT this year and the one bear incident I heard about was false. I heard it was a hiker who used Coconut Oil scented lotion and was drug out of his tent. That was a false rumor. Hang all your stuff every night, EVERYTHING. You will not have a problem.

He said he didnt use the scented sunscreen, and it was unopened. Bear didnt drag him out of tent either.

But it was very real. He was bitten and repeatedly attacked thru tent. He made it to shelter when bear took a break. Rangers evacuated him next day. They killed sveral bears, DNA proved them all innocent.

http://wate.com/2016/05/27/appalachian-trail-hiker-describes-

RockDoc
12-23-2016, 23:02
Words of wisdom: "It's not for everybody".

LongBlaze2019
12-24-2016, 11:57
I've done a lot of backpacking throughout Southeastern Ohio. The Buckeye Trail and all over the Wayne National Forrest.
I've encountered bears and Bobcats throughout the years but they have never wanted anything to do with me.
The only time I ever had a had "scary" encounter was when I woke up one night and a Bobcat was looking at me through the end of my tent.
We looked at each other without move ngbfor about 2 minutes and he got bored and left. I didn't sleep much the rest of the night but I slept like a rock the next 4 days I was out.
You are going to come across wild animals while on the AT or any other trail. Your heightened fears will do nothing but keep you constantly worried and ultimately ruin your hiking experience.
Most encounters are harmless.
Hike on!!

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Fireplug
12-24-2016, 14:48
I have tried some section hikes with a partner and I have come to a crossroad. I am either going to go alone or I am done with backpacking the AT. I am ready to head out alone, but even after 4 year and 4 section hikes, I still have some reservations. I am still concerned with bears. I have read at least 1 article from this year alone describing a hiker being pulled from his tent by a bear. This leads me to want to camp near other hikers, but I despise the though of the vermin found in shelters crawling over me all night long. I realize that out of 1000s of hikers, one or two may be attacked, but it bothers me. Am I thinking about this all wrong?

Another issue that I am having is that I can't get comfortable on my pad at night. I have a Thermarest Neo Xlite pad and I use 2 small pillows. I use a quilt from Enlightened. What am I doing wrong? I simply can't seem to get any sleep at night.

Any ideas or words of wisdom?

the guy who was involved in the bear attack slept with food in his tent!!!!! Shelters. I've heard mice but never ever seen one. If your not going to hike because of these two issues it's time for a new hobby. The trail is still safer than any town.

TSWisla
12-25-2016, 21:58
Thank you for the replies.