View Full Version : Feb 2018 AT NOBO Gear List needs review and critique :)
Hey all, I REALLY need help with my gear list from hikers-in-the-know. I am planning to thru-hike the AT starting February 15, 2018 and am attempting to do so with as much of an UL pack weight as possible. However, I have no backpacking experience myself so all the information I found online regarding hiking clothes, packed clothes, layers, etc. is over my head. As such, I have no idea if items in my list (clothes in particular) apply for the category I've put them, or even if some of my categories are redundant, or if specific items are redundant because some camp clothes should be the same as my hiking clothes, etc. Seriously, for clothing, I simply added every #1 rated item from Outdoor Gear Lab reviews for each category. So actually, this is more like a gear wish list. So please advise on items that aren't good for a said category, alternatives that are better, or better advice on the layers!
Also, although I don't have ANY gear of my own; I'm starting from scratch; I'm trying to be UL; all my prices are conservative/worse-case scenarios of full-price; and I do plan to keep an eye out for sales/deals, the $$ total in my list is about 1K more than I'll be able to save by the time I start. So any lower-priced alternatives that you all know of, that don't significantly increase pack weight, would be greatly appreciated.
So, please look over my draft gear list in the Google Sheets link below and let me know your thoughts, critiques, advice, suggest edits, and let me know if I'm missing anything. I tried to make it as clean, thorough and organized as possible. Thanks so much for the help!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qWC6UVtWcb2OlTPftj3OcljV7npSvv5OC2ISwv0bJOc/edit?usp=sharing
FYI, I realize "no backpacking experience" and "February" might freak some people out but some 2016 hikers who live close to the trail and had a Feb start offered for me to come up and train whenever I needed so I intend to take advantage of that if I can. I'll make a separate thread sometime soon seeking help and advice with the aspects of a winter-start hike :)
Spreadsheet Footnotes:
* I'm a female
* The Big 3 and the sleeping pad have already been or will be purchased this Black Friday weekend so those are unchangeable unless a BIG concern is noted.
* This a Winter gear list (heaviest pack weight) but I intended for it to also include ALL my gear for a full thru because it includes summer gear where you see Generic (read Walmart) in shirts and shorts. (Again, tell me if I'm wrong!)
* In all my past overnight camping during Fall in Georgia, I've always slept cold and wake up repeatedly throughout the night, so warmth is a big player in my choices here.
* Price columns with "purchased" or "own" indicate items I already obtained prior to the creation of this list and thus their prices did not play a part in this list's total
* Clothing weights were mostly guesses/estimates since I couldn't find weights listed on manufacturer websites (if you know real weights please let me know!)
* Red weights (in lbs) are the total in pounds for the corresponding red category
That is a very expensive list of very nice things. http://www.pmags.com/ has lots of good info
http://sectionhiker.com/ great real reviews. I would rather carry a little more weight and have more to spend on the trail. Still with a base weight of less then 10 lbs for 3 season kit.
Good luck Thom
rashamon12
11-22-2016, 20:14
a footprint isnt nessasary unless you choose poorly over and over again where to place your tent. In addition camp chair is not needed as long as you have something waterproof to sit on like poncho or rain pants you will be fine. You could easily get a digital bible and look at it on your phone as long as phone power is not an issue. Depending on how frequent you go into town and if you carry a battery pack.
That is a very expensive list of very nice things. http://www.pmags.com/ has lots of good info
http://sectionhiker.com/ great real reviews. I would rather carry a little more weight and have more to spend on the trail. Still with a base weight of less then 10 lbs for 3 season kit.
Good luck Thom
Thanks for the input, I will be sure to check out these sites. I'll actually have nearly 7K saved up just for my hike alone (on top of gear) :)
rashamon12
11-22-2016, 20:28
personally some cheaper alternatives are out there like Darn tough socks
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_15?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A2419358011%2Ck%3Adarn+tough+socks&keywords=darn+tough+socks&ie=UTF8&qid=1479860210&rnid=2941120011 (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_15?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A2419358011%2Ck%3Adarn+tough+socks&keywords=darn+tough+socks&ie=UTF8&qid=1479860613&rnid=2941120011)
trekking poles like as well as your other gear you should take a look at this site because you can get some crazy deals here too
sierratradingpost
its all a matter of opinion and what you are willing to do without in order to save weight and or money. sierratradingpost is a great place to cut some cost especially if you let them email you they can send additional deals and even with your first package they send a 20% discount on purchases over $75 or more as long as they aren't close out. if you buy wisely you can save a significant amount of money
https://www.traildesigns.com/
this is good cook kit
dudeijuststarted
11-22-2016, 20:37
ditch the bracelet with the compass, striker, and whistle. You won't likely be starting fires and if you do your lighter will be fine
ditch the bible (sorry, but can't your phone store the bible?)
ditch the pencil and sharpener
you'll also lose a bunch of pack weight when summer comes. 30-35lbs is pretty normal for winter. If you're hiking NOBO you'll be at an outfitter within a few days of hiking, so if you're not sure about an extra item, consider saving your cash until you get there. Even experienced section hikers such as myself regeared a fair amount once on trail in Georgia for a few days. Believe me, there will be more than enough people giving you plenty of advice (solicited and unsolicited) when you get there :-)
You have duplicates in packed and worn gear. Did you really find the most expensive stuff you can find and list it? Vargo titanium stuff? Smartwool? Its good quality stuff, but after using it, wearing it for a hike of several months, its going to get trashed and most of it will be replaced at some point.
I'll definitely see to switching to Darn Tough in my list and will sign up for Sierra Post emails today, thanks :) I only added the Z-Seat because I read it was an indispensable luxury item on multiple sites; adding to their mental comfort. But I'll re-examine how important/how much effect that actually is, as you say.
At the risk of being flamed into a pile of ashes, do not skimp on your sleeping BAG! A fellow who goes by Just Bill has explained this repeatedly. You sleep cold. You're starting in mid February, a topic for a whole other thread. You need a proper full coverage sleeping bag.
From my personal experience I would heartily suggest the Western Mountaineering Versalite or Antelope. I own the Antelope and Alpinlite. Very conservative honest temperature ratings. Impeccable construction. Buy once and done.
Save money elsewhere. It's easy. Thrift shops, Craigslist, used gear here at WhiteBlaze. A pack from ULA will work just fine and save you money. A tent from Henry Shires at TarpTent will work fine.
Don't spend any money this weekend. You need to learn more.
Good luck. Spend all the time you can on trails at elevation. You've got time to knock out a few hundred miles. Go play in the snow.
The Xtherm Large is my favorite pad in the past 40 years. Lighter and cheaper than the MAX.
Have fun!
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Will ditch the bracket :D Thanks
I did consider the app vs. physical bible but it's more about saving as much battery power as I can. I will have a iPhone _s Plus so drainage is a concern for me. However, if you guys think my listed external battery will be more than sufficient for the time between towns then I'd probably reconsider. (Again, I have no experience)
I plan to have no apps besides Guthook, the Bible and FB & Insta (town only) so my phone can be a lightweight, glorified camera while hiking. So maybe it's enough?
You have duplicates in packed and worn gear. Did you really find the most expensive stuff you can find and list it? Vargo titanium stuff? Smartwool? Its good quality stuff, but after using it, wearing it for a hike of several months, its going to get trashed and most of it will be replaced at some point.
Yeah I was almost certain I had duplicates. Can you specify which items? I'd like to get rid of any redundant items I have, so it'd be a big help. (By the way, if a worn item says "same as packed" it means that it's the same item being used in both categories, not two of the same)
As for expensive, yeah I pretty much did. I kind of chose the items in this list to make sure I didn't underestimate the money I would need for gear. Worst-case scenario/max, if you will. I'm not married to any brands if others have the same weight for less $.
rashamon12
11-23-2016, 02:38
if you are overly concerned about battery power look at the specs online for your phone for the milliamp hours (mAh) than find an external battery that will allow a charge. i went with
external battery (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005X1Y7I2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
I still would make sure to have a compass and a way to start fire like a lighter but that would only be if you easily get disoriented and want to have assurances in case you get lost in the woods. Venchka (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php/46440-Venchka) is right, the sleeping bag is one of the most important things because that should be your warmest place even in the worst of conditions. I know i went anti ultra light on this but i got the military modular sleep system (MSS) because survival rating it is rated for -30 and has a bivy system. Its not the most pack-able but i will be carrying the winter bag and bivy with me which will give me a -10 rating easily. (i will be hammock camping). Ultra light is all about having just the bare bones in both weight and extras, only carrying what is absolutely needed. I will not do ultra light because i am a survivalist type and will not take risks where they are not necessary.
look to find what will get the job done with minimal extra weight. Each item if it can take care of more than one role the more space and weight you can save in the long run. For example my flashlight is dynamo and solar charged removing the weight and need to stop for batteries.
Hikingjim
11-23-2016, 03:28
To minimize initial weight, you could drop the crocs and get them in warmer weather if you want them then.
Digital bible will be fine. I use the same phone things you will (other than bible), including lots of kindle app reading, and you'll be fine for battery. That battery pack is a bit overkill and you should be ok with something around 5-6 oz and 8000-10000 mah. This would give you 2-3 charges and allow some room for efficiency loss with time
People don't really carry 6.4 oz of TP, so you could knock that down a bit on your list
I don't use footprints, but I know some do
rashamon12
11-23-2016, 04:55
the charger i posted only weighs 2.7 oz and would give you 1.2 full charges on most typical phone batteries. its lipstick sized and is only like $20 shipped to your door. wouldn't say its overkill at all
jjozgrunt
11-23-2016, 07:09
Yeah I was almost certain I had duplicates. Can you specify which items? I'd like to get rid of any redundant items I have, so it'd be a big help. (By the way, if a worn item says "same as packed" it means that it's the same item being used in both categories, not two of the same)
As for expensive, yeah I pretty much did. I kind of chose the items in this list to make sure I didn't underestimate the money I would need for gear. Worst-case scenario/max, if you will. I'm not married to any brands if others have the same weight for less $.
You seem to have lots of clothes. 2 sets of base layers, 2 pair of long john underwear, 2 t shirts, fleece R1 and synthetic jacket, 2 rain tops (poncho and jacket).
Drop the poncho and I'd think about switching the synthetic insulation jacket for down. You should only be wearing it in camp.
During the day you need to be warm without sweating.
I can't see you wearing long john bottoms, bottom base layer and long pants all at once, you will quickly be sweating. Get rid of the long john underwear.
Tops - I'd get rid of one t-shirt, and the R1. Get a light weight merino t-shirt and a wind shell ( I have the zpacks one). This gives you good layering options for different weather, whilst walking, with a wool t-shirt, base layer Mid, wind shell, and then hard shell.
You will only get to know what suits you by getting out in the appropriate weather and testing. Fine for you at the moment with it getting colder, it's a little warmer here 92F and 80% humidity and it's only spring.
Toaks Titanium stuff is good and its cheaper. You can make an aluminum windscreen from a turkey basting pan that the stores all stock this time of year. Use a mini bic for your lighter. I usually have 2 to 5 on me stashed in various pockets in my pack, pouches, baggies, food bag, stove, wherever. Its one of those fears I pack. Can use the sack the pot comes in as a scrubber, or use sand or dirt or your fingers. No need for a sponge. A simple plastic spoon works fine. I use a long handled lexan spoon I got from REI for $1.50. Don't really need dry bags if you keep all your stuff in a trash compactor bag. You may want to keep your down jacket and sleeping bag in a dry bag, just to be safe. After several days of rain, everything is going to be damp regardless. Get used to it. As was mentioned, its unlikely you will be wearing baselayer pants while hiking. If I'm cold in the morning, I wear my rain pants and take them off after I warm up a bit. Some people don't use rain pants, but in the Winter, I prefer them to a kilt or poncho.
Think of your clothing as a system. Base layers, warming and insulating layers, wind shells, rain shells. You can mix and match all layers or even wear all layers if its really cold out, or windy. Your Puffy you only wear when you are stopped, or in camp socializing before bed. Most of the time, it stays in your pack nice and dry.
One set of baselayers for sleeping in, one set for hiking in. That and socks should be your only duplicates (maybe underwear, but that's a personal choice)
Greenlight
11-23-2016, 09:01
Several tips, but first to address the phone. You may not know what phone you'll have at the time. Do you have Verizon? Because that is the only carrier you'll want if you're on the trail. So part of your homework is, between then and now, timing your jump to Verizon so you only have to be with them for a year or less. They're the stingiest when it comes to data and the most expensive. But also the most reliable on the AT. Also look at upgrading (downgrading) to the iPhone SE or whatever it's equiv will be in 2018. It's the same specs as the iPhone 6S but with the dimensions of the iPhone 5 series, that wonderful text with one hand form factor, and the battery life is better than the 6 series. Plus, they're practically giving them away.
If you're wedded to the idea of using an alcohol stove, buy it now and start using it this winter outside in the snow. Ask to borrow friends' MSR setups or even a JetBoil and test them as alternatives. There are benefits to having hot water in 3 minutes instead of 15. I know some people swear by alcohol stoves, but you may not.
Buy a small multi-tool instead of a knife. What do you need a knife for, are you going to fight a bear or get into a street fight?
Get an anti-gravity "write anywhere" pen instead of pencil. If you're taking a Rite-in-Rain notebook, might as well get the recommended pen for writing in it. And Rite-in-Rain paper is awesome. I've taken notes in pouring rain out in the field with those notebooks and the antigravity pen, and it just works.
Why are you taking tooth paste? Just one more thing to attract critters. You're probably not gonna be kissing many people on the trail.
Last, if you're starting in February, think down, not fleece. Heck, take one of each, but down will make your life tolerable when you stop hiking at the end of the day.
Great good luck!
Will ditch the bracket :D Thanks
I did consider the app vs. physical bible but it's more about saving as much battery power as I can. I will have a iPhone _s Plus so drainage is a concern for me. However, if you guys think my listed external battery will be more than sufficient for the time between towns then I'd probably reconsider. (Again, I have no experience)
I plan to have no apps besides Guthook, the Bible and FB & Insta (town only) so my phone can be a lightweight, glorified camera while hiking. So maybe it's enough?
DuneElliot
11-23-2016, 09:51
Trim down the clothes:
1 set of hiking clothes. You may want to switch out certain things when it gets warmer. I do carry an extra L/S fleece in cooler weather because I get cold easily.
1 set of camp clothes (your base layer and wool socks) to sleep in
1 down puffy jacket
2 pair of hiking socks (I love my Darn Tough Quarter Crew) and 2 pair of U/W...wear one carry one of each
Lose the crocks
A rain jacket will do decent double-duty as a wind-breaker so lose the hardshell
Lose the chair, bracelet and ground sheet (I've never found a need for one with my Duplex)
You could also save some money by going with an Enlightened Equipment quilt instead of ZPacks. You could almost get two bags/quilts for the same price. Get a 10* Convert for the colder months and then a 40* Revelation or Prodigy for the warmer months. 900FP down reacts to the humidity worse than a lower FP down so bear that in mind when you purchase a sleeping bag/quilt.
Water Rat
11-23-2016, 10:40
My advice is probably something you won't want to hear.... I absolutely understand the desire to get the gear and then get acquainted with it, but you can really save yourself lots of money if you have friends who will let you borrow their gear for practice. That will give you the opportunity to see what does/doesn't work for you. Gear is a very personal choice and what works for someone else (or comes in as highly rated online), doesn't necessarily mean it will work for your hiking style.
I would hold off on buying for now - There are lots of sales to be had...especially when companies are looking to move product in order to make shelf space for the newer colors/style of gear.
If you can borrow any of the gear on the list, that would be the best case scenario so you can try it and see if it will work for you.
Definitely try out the different stove options out there.... Some people have found that they actually prefer canister stoves for their ease of use. There is also the whole "fire ban" issue that could come into play. Currently, there are sections of the AT where a canister stove is the only stove that can be used. Not trying to talk you into any one type of stove, just trying to offer some suggestions for you to mull over during the fun of picking out the new toys. :)
You mention sleeping cold - Sleep is extremely important. Lack of sleep can lead to illness, injury, and not enjoying the hike. Make sure you have a sleeping pad that is insulated and keeps you warm and protected from the heat-sucking ground. That is just as important as whichever sleeping bag/quilt you opt to use during your trek. If you are not warm and comfortable while sleeping, that will just increase your odds of spending more money to fix the situation. It will also increase the odds you will just "bag it" and head home.
While I absolutely love my Zpacks Arc Haul, I also know it is not for everyone. Do you have any friends who have this pack, so that you could try it on? Zpacks is located in Melbourne, Florida and might be worth a road trip to head there and see/feel the pack and tent first-hand and sleeping bag first-hand. The folks at Zpacks are great about answering questions.
Don't worry about clothing right now. You have a lot of time to think and research. Concentrate more on your sleep system (tent, sleeping bag/quilt, sleeping pad), your pack, and your stove options...then worry about the small stuff.
As for your question regarding getting the prices down, it is absolutely possible. Keep your eye on Black Friday sales, end of season sales, pre-season sales.... Some sites you might want to peruse are:
backcountry.com - http://www.backcountry.com/
Sierra Trading Post - http://www.sierratradingpost.com/
Campmor - https://www.campmor.com/
Campsaver - http://www.campsaver.com/
REI - https://www.rei.com/
And...White Blaze. There are definitely gear sales to be had on this site. Sometimes people get all their gear only to discover that thru-hiking...or backpacking...really is not for them.
Studlintsean
11-23-2016, 11:11
The big thing that jumped out to me (and others as noted) is your clothes. Here is what I would bring for a February start:
Hiking
-REI Sahara Pants Hiking
- Mid Weight Base Layer
- 100 weight Fleece
- Darn Tough Socks
- Wool Beannie
- Glove liners (TNF) and Mitts (Borah Gear)
- Rain Pants and Jacket - add/ remove as needed
Camp Only
- Heavy base layer top and bottom
- Montbell Alpinelite Down jacket- Outdoor Research Down Beannie
- Dry sleep socks
- Crocs (these are heavenly when your shoes are wet in the winter)
- Possibly a spare set of gloves but probably not.
kevperro
11-24-2016, 10:27
Everyone is different but I pretty much guarantee you will ditch much of that list. If you start later in warmer weather you can save money and weight and you increase your chance of finishing significantly. Getting your first backpacking experience in winter conditions is not likely to be fun. Hell... I wouldn't enjoy starting in February and I have many thousands of hiking miles under my belt over thirty years.
I'd also encourage you to leave the electronics at home. Believe it or not, backpacking is fun and life is still livable without your iPhone.
I'd also encourage you to leave the electronics at home. Believe it or not, backpacking is fun and life is still livable without your iPhone.
Blasphemy! :D
My phone is my camera and emergency GPS. Its usually in my pocket, not my hands.
kevperro
11-24-2016, 12:11
Blasphemy! :D
My phone is my camera and emergency GPS. Its usually in my pocket, not my hands.
Well... I'm a hypocrite because I carry mine too nowadays but when I hiked the AT in the early 90s I didn't have one and I cannot think of a time when I would have needed it. Of course, I took no pictures the entire trip. The hiking pictures I have are not all that special to me but the people you meet on a thru-hike occupy a special place.
So... pictures are a good reason to carry it but I'd encourage you to get real names of the people you meet along the trail and take pictures of people, not necessarily places. Twenty-five years later that is my only regret, that I don't have their real names so I can get in touch with them.
kevperro
11-24-2016, 13:49
If you're wedded to the idea of using an alcohol stove, buy it now and start using it this winter outside in the snow. Ask to borrow friends' MSR setups or even a JetBoil and test them as alternatives. There are benefits to having hot water in 3 minutes instead of 15. I know some people swear by alcohol stoves, but you may not.
This is wisdom. Food comes to occupy a special place in your heart during a long trek. What I take backpacking for three or four days is different than I'd take a multi-month hike. You will get tired of eating dehydrated meals even if you can afford them. I really enjoyed cooking bagels in butter and then slathering them in crunchy peanut butter every morning. You need your calories. I carried a white gas stove (MSR) but if I did it today I'd carry a Kova Spider and a Toaks frying pan/pot combo (1300mL) so that I could simmer and Mac&Cheese and other grocery store stuff as my food cravings changed. You don't need a big kitchen by any stretch but the ability to cook more traditional packaged food and mix-up your diet is more needed on a long trip.
What kevperro said.
Drink alcohol.
Burn hydrocarbons.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
At the risk of being flamed into a pile of ashes, do not skimp on your sleeping BAG! A fellow who goes by Just Bill has explained this repeatedly. You sleep cold. You're starting in mid February, a topic for a whole other thread. You need a proper full coverage sleeping bag.
From my personal experience I would heartily suggest the Western Mountaineering Versalite or Antelope. I own the Antelope and Alpinlite. Very conservative honest temperature ratings. Impeccable construction. Buy once and done.
Save money elsewhere. It's easy. Thrift shops, Craigslist, used gear here at WhiteBlaze. A pack from ULA will work just fine and save you money. A tent from Henry Shires at TarpTent will work fine.
Don't spend any money this weekend. You need to learn more.
Good luck. Spend all the time you can on trails at elevation. You've got time to knock out a few hundred miles. Go play in the snow.
The Xtherm Large is my favorite pad in the past 40 years. Lighter and cheaper than the MAX.
Have fun!
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not a 4 season hiker but after 3 nights below freezing on a 4 day 3 night trip I completely agree. Don't sleep cold. I was amazed at how cold my hands/feet and face were. Best of luck.
Great suggestions here but one not mentioned... Get Amazon Prime (for the free shipping, and sometimes better pricing) and build a wish list. Amazon will send daily updates when an item changes price. This is excellent for clothing. For example, IceBreaker Shirts can cost up to $100 dollars regular price. I have bought 3 shirts ranging from $39 to $45. What you are paying for Polypro ground cloth, I got Tyvik Ground Sheet just as cheap. Amazon will work for anything besides the cottage industries such as Z Packs, Hammock Gear, Dutchware... that you already know about. I also agree with not jumping into Vargo products but taking a look at Canister Stoves - Again Amazon will have $5 China knockoffs of the Pocket Rocket. Maybe think of buying a Buff for versatility and face covering, for warmth. I have found I can regulate core heat by what I place on my Head, Hands and Feet. You have a year so don't rush it. I plan on March 2018 if I can retire this coming June and my winter pack weight is just under 20lbs. Enjoy the prep process, it's part of the fun!
One more Amazon advantage: Unknown Unauthorized charges to your Amex account.
Wayne
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been away from this site for a long time. Don't want to be a killjoy but you mentioned you will only have a thousand dollars saved. I hope you are only talking about gear money and not total funds for your thru. Most people get shocked when they find out how much money you will actually spend on a long distance hike. I usually plan to have about $4 per mile. I know that is a lot more than most people spend but it's always nice to have a little extra.
poolskaterx
11-25-2016, 21:38
I have much of the gear you listed, lol!
I would recommend both hip pouches from zpacks, you will love them and they are very convenient.
I switched out my wool beanie to the zpacks fleece beanie-love it!
I just ditched my old wool sweater for the R1 full zip and there is no going back, usable hiking, in camp, and sleeping.
I will echo what many others have mentioned: alcohol stoves can be great, but I only use canister stove now- the convenience vs minimal weight saving is just not worth it to me... I can have 2 cups of cocoa before the alcohol stove starts to boil.
I would throw 2 ground hog stakes in there for ridge line or poking hole in the ground for the carbon stakes.
Just my.02
Sorry for the radio silence everybody. Haven't been ignoring your suggestions but have actually been looking into everything you all have mentioned. In regards to the sleeping bag in particular, the Western Mountaineering looks amazingly comfortable and warm, so much so that I wouldn't even mind the increase in weight. However, the price tag is pretty steep seeing that I'm trying to get my costs down. Enlightened Equipment was mentioned and they have a lot of customization options plus it's cheaper than ZPacks. I've read some gear talk online between all these and it's kind of even among opinions for and against each. If at all possible I really wanted a sleeping bag that was flexible enough to take me from winter through spring and summer. Just to avoid having to get two different bags if I could. It looks like the bags that can open up would fit that bill. Could anyone speak to a bag or degree that would achieve all that? Or is that too big of a request?
Been away from this site for a long time. Don't want to be a killjoy but you mentioned you will only have a thousand dollars saved. I hope you are only talking about gear money and not total funds for your thru. Most people get shocked when they find out how much money you will actually spend on a long distance hike. I usually plan to have about $4 per mile. I know that is a lot more than most people spend but it's always nice to have a little extra.
Oh no, as it stands now I'll be able to have $6,800 saved for the hike and $3,400 for gear. Any other extra money I can squirrel away will be added to that. And whatever savings I can achieve from the gear monies will go towards the hike instead.
DuneElliot
11-26-2016, 10:09
Sorry for the radio silence everybody. Haven't been ignoring your suggestions but have actually been looking into everything you all have mentioned. In regards to the sleeping bag in particular, the Western Mountaineering looks amazingly comfortable and warm, so much so that I wouldn't even mind the increase in weight. However, the price tag is pretty steep seeing that I'm trying to get my costs down. Enlightened Equipment was mentioned and they have a lot of customization options plus it's cheaper than ZPacks. I've read some gear talk online between all these and it's kind of even among opinions for and against each. If at all possible I really wanted a sleeping bag that was flexible enough to take me from winter through spring and summer. Just to avoid having to get two different bags if I could. It looks like the bags that can open up would fit that bill. Could anyone speak to a bag or degree that would achieve all that? Or is that too big of a request?
I have the Enlightened Equipment Convert (their full-zip quilt) rated to 10*. I found it good into the 20s. I have also used it in the 60s and it was definitely too warm. There is no easy way to use a really warm bag for those temps...I was only half covered, but that half sweated while the other half was colder. I don't know what east coast/AT night temperatures are like in the summer but I'm pretty sure a fall/winter bag is serious overkill. As I suggested before, you could get the down-filled Convert for the cold sections AND a synthetic Prodigy for the humid warm sections for a little more than the same price of a ZPacks quilt.
A 20º to 30º Bag/Quilt will get you through an AT Gear Hike. Western Mountainering Versalite is an example. Quilts offer more venting so they can be used as a blanket when temps get warmer in the heat of summer. However, look at the bag as part of a sleep system; if using the entire hike. By that, I mean, take into consideration various head covering to work in combo with a quilt, dry socks at night, down jacket worn backwards and other dry fleece garments to aid in insulation of core temps. Also remember tricks like sleeping with a hot water bottle if the night gets to chilled. If there is an extreme drop in temps, you can alway's drop off the trail and wait it out in a warmer hostel.
kevperro
11-26-2016, 13:45
Sorry for the radio silence everybody. Haven't been ignoring your suggestions but have actually been looking into everything you all have mentioned. In regards to the sleeping bag in particular, the Western Mountaineering looks amazingly comfortable and warm, so much so that I wouldn't even mind the increase in weight. However, the price tag is pretty steep seeing that I'm trying to get my costs down. Enlightened Equipment was mentioned and they have a lot of customization options plus it's cheaper than ZPacks. I've read some gear talk online between all these and it's kind of even among opinions for and against each. If at all possible I really wanted a sleeping bag that was flexible enough to take me from winter through spring and summer. Just to avoid having to get two different bags if I could. It looks like the bags that can open up would fit that bill. Could anyone speak to a bag or degree that would achieve all that? Or is that too big of a request?
I still have an use the Feathered Friends bag I used on the PCT in 1993 & the AT 1995. It would be a heavy 32 ounces by today's standards.
But... I've experimented with various quilts and sleeping bags over the years. Everyone is different but I'd get the EE Revelation 20 deg. in a wide if I were doing what you plan. Buy a down puffy with a hood and the ZPacks fleece caps and a neck gaiter for winter. My puffy is a custom one by Goosefeet Gear and it is the lightest most versatile piece of warmth I own @ 8.7 ounces. If you sleep with cold feet get the goose down or EE has synthetic booties. Ship them home once the weather warms.
So...rather than depending upon just a sleeping bag/quilt to keep you warm I'd focus on a system of components that you can add/remove as the weather changes. Ship home what you don't use once you get into summer.
For trail use wear as little as possible during the day. Even in fairly cold weather you can get by with shorts and a lightweight top. The more you wear during the day the more you will have wet at night. It isn't until you pull into camp that you will typically deal with getting cold. The exertion during the day will keep you warm except for extremities or during high winds/rain. Even in those conditions I'd carry a lightweight wind shell to deal with during the day protection. Rain jackets are too warm for me when moving. Gloves are also important to me during the day if it is raining and/or cold. Think really light weight.... just enough to provide minimal protection. Also plan on them getting and staying wet so experiment with light weight gloves on some hikes before you go on your trip. These days I use cheap thin work gloves.... mainly because they are cheap, light weight and disposable. I can carry an extra pair in my pack that stays dry and alternate them at night. You need something in your pack that stays dry for camp that may just be a warming mitt. I'd just get fleece ones for camp because they are light weight, moisture won't bother them much and you can throw some plastic bags over them if needed for additional warmth.
Anyway.... just some thoughts. You really have to experiment with winter travel to find out what works best for you. Spending the most money isn't going to do it. Some of my most used gear is the cheapest junk I've found. Although I love my ZPacks cap. ;-)
MtDoraDave
11-26-2016, 14:17
Not a lot of input on the high dollar products, since I went mostly with mid priced stuff.
My thoughts: footwear, price no object - only comfort and fit matter. No blisters. My Keen boots were the cheapest I tried on, but I only knew that later because I told the salesman I did NOT want to see the prices of all the boots I tried on... and I tried on several.
I just got back from a week in Virginia, and several nights / mornings were in the twenties. My crocs are the ones without holes in them. They are straight up warm with only my thick smartwool socks inside (I only wear them for camp/sleep, for hiking I wear the thinner darn tough socks).
I have a 0 degree down sleeping bag for cold weather trips that is too hot once it gets over about 45 degrees at night... but I won't go without it if there's a chance for colder weather. It is my refuge when my layers don't cut it outside. I strip down to base layer and crawl in - and soon I'm toasty warm.
For warmer weather, I use a walmart lightweight down bag that is supposedly rated to 32 degrees, weighs 1 lb 12 oz, and stuffs down to the size of a football ($80). I'm sure a 40 degree quilt would work fine in mild weather, and be lighter than that sleeping bag - but I don't think you will find one bag/quilt that will work for the entire trek, especially if you insist on starting in February.
MtDoraDave
11-26-2016, 15:08
One other thing... Now that the Thermarest ridgerest and/or the z-lite are available at most of the big box stores, pick one up and cut off a section of it to use to sit on and to kneel on outside your tent door. After I discovered I couldn't sleep on it comfortably, I cut my Ridgerest into pieces for this purpose, and gave some away to my hiking partner. The size that worked out for me is about 14" long. I fold it in half and store it in the hydration bladder section of my pack. (since I don't use a hydration bladder)
It does wonders keeping your bottom insulated and dry when sitting on snow for lunch, or on a picnic bench at a shelter, and keeps knees dry when kneeling to enter the tent.
Walmart sells blue foam rolls suitable for sit pads for under $10. In fact, I would think that you could get a sit pad and enough leftover to fit your torso under your sleeping pad. You might sacrifice a bit of R value.
Wayne
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kevperro
11-27-2016, 12:57
Oh no, as it stands now I'll be able to have $6,800 saved for the hike and $3,400 for gear. Any other extra money I can squirrel away will be added to that. And whatever savings I can achieve from the gear monies will go towards the hike instead.
I don't want to come across as a know it all but I'd encourage you to allocate less money towards gear. There is nothing wrong with ZPacks other than it is the lightest and most expensive but you don't necessarily need that to complete the hike. You pay a lot of money for the last couple pounds of weight reduction and that has been overemphasized in importance on the Internet.
What I would encourage is getting a couple winter 3-4 day trips under your belt to "shake down" your gear list. Several weekend trips into the weather you will be facing daily is a much better use of resources than Internet surfing for an opinion among a bunch of opinioned "old farts". And get in shape ahead of the trip. You should be known as the person who monopolizes the Stairmaster at your local gym and who steps backward and forward on that thing for an hour or more at a time. Good 2-3 hour aerobic leg exercises are what you want to specialize on. If you live where you can hike nothing at the gym is as good as going up and down the mountain with a pack on mixed terrain. If you need to... burn off some extra weight (body - not pack) ahead of the trip.
Don't believe me. Here is another opinion.
http://sectionhiker.com/buying-western-mountaineering-sleeping-bags/
Wayne
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Hey all, forgive the lapse in update. Holidays, family, more research, updating, etc is all time consuming.
Please see my updated list again: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qWC6UVtWcb2OlTPftj3OcljV7npSvv5OC2ISwv0bJOc/edit?usp=sharing
Bday/Xmas gifts served me well. The right-most column indicates whether I have the item listed now. I've made a few revisions per everyone's input and also made some winter additions as I saw in use by hikers I'm following online who started in Jan/Feb this year. Please critique all. There isn't much change in the clothing department as that is still a confusing area to me so specific guidance and suggestions there would be greatly appreciated.
- For one, would a 100-150wt base layer be good enough while hiking considering the Feb start or will I need a thicker weight? (Hiking pants will be worn over the base)
- Is the R1 fleece sufficient for a Feb. start / does anyone know of good, less-expensive alternatives I could replace it with?
- Considering the ZPacks Arc Haul is highly water resistant, if I use a trash compactor bag inside, is it safe to say I won't need a pack cover?
- If the above is true, should I be able to get by with the FroggToggs UL2 suit for my rain shell?
- To those with experience with WM bags: will an Alpinite, on top of the XTherm, with a 250wt baselayer, thick socks, and appropriate layering with down jacket and other items listed be enough for the conditions I might see with a Feb start? Or would I need to add a liner to stretch its temperature?
- Are compression shorts a good idea to replace underwear while hiking? Riding has always been an issue after hours of walking so I'm wary whether traditionally-cut undies will work out.
Thanks again!
100 to 150 wt is good if its cold. If its in the 20's, you may find its too warm if wearing another layer over it and hiking in your baselayers may be preferable, but keep in mind, you will always want to keep one set of dry baselayers safely in your pack. Those are your sleeping clothes or emergency "0h ****! Im going to die" layer.
nothing wrong with patagucci baselayers. I have several, in fact. R1 hoody is one of my favorite pieces, and I dont even like the hood. My neck is too long and I wear glasses. The hood interferes with my glasses being comfortable on my nose.
pack covers arent needed.
Whats an Alpinelite rated for? 20*?
100 to 150 wt is good if its cold. If its in the 20's, you may find its too warm if wearing another layer over it and hiking in your baselayers may be preferable, but keep in mind, you will always want to keep one set of dry baselayers safely in your pack. Those are your sleeping clothes or emergency "0h ****! Im going to die" layer.
nothing wrong with patagucci baselayers. I have several, in fact. R1 hoody is one of my favorite pieces, and I dont even like the hood. My neck is too long and I wear glasses. The hood interferes with my glasses being comfortable on my nose.
pack covers arent needed.
Whats an Alpinelite rated for? 20*?
Oh yes, my gear list has another set of base layers for camp. And yes, the Alpinite is rated @20
Kalaallit
02-28-2017, 01:49
Personally, I'd go for a down quilt over that Alpinlite. $500 is a lot of money for a 20 degree bag.
Great cottage companies for down gear are Underground Quilts, who have two models, the Flight Jacket and the Renegade. A 950fp 20deg Flight Jacket will run you around $300, and come it at about 16.8 ounces. Half the weight of the Alpinlite, and a lot less money as well.
Other good options are Hammock Gear with their Burrow line of quilts, where a 20 degree will be about 18 ounces, but only $234, as they use 850fp down. Enlightened Equipment has their three lines of down quilts (a 20 short, slim, 950fp Revelation will be $320 and 15.8oz).
Finally, Loco Libre are another good option. Their Ghost Pepper in the short length comes in at $278 and 17 ounces in the 900fp.
Underground Quilts offers 800 and 850 fill down as well, which is cheaper and slightly heavier than the 950. EE also has 800 and 850, Hammock Gear just has the 850, and Loco Libre has 800 as well.
DuneElliot
02-28-2017, 09:47
The Arc Haul is water "resistant" and certainly not waterproof, and I would definitely use a pack liner...either a CF or just a regular trash compactor bag works great and it is what I use in my Arc Haul.
Quilts are awesome but they are not for everyone either. I love mine, and have another one on the way for my hammock. However, WM makes a superb bag if that's what you prefer.
The Arc Haul is water "resistant" and certainly not waterproof, and I would definitely use a pack liner...either a CF or just a regular trash compactor bag works great and it is what I use in my Arc Haul.
Quilts are awesome but they are not for everyone either. I love mine, and have another one on the way for my hammock. However, WM makes a superb bag if that's what you prefer.
With that said (regarding the use of a pack liner instead), do you think the Frogg Toggs will suffice as a rainshell? I'm trying to justify getting rid of the ZPacks Groundsheet/Poncho from my gear list in exchange for something less expensive.
With that said (regarding the use of a pack liner instead), do you think the Frogg Toggs will suffice as a rainshell? I'm trying to justify getting rid of the ZPacks Groundsheet/Poncho from my gear list in exchange for something less expensive.Plenty of people use the frogg toggs, unless you plan on bushwacking, they should be fine. Worse case, they tear up and you snag another set from a wal-mart or the like along the trail.