Winter Long Trail Thru-Hike [Archive]

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Texaco

11-25-2016, 16:25

Hey all!

Been a long time since I've logged in here, but I started looking around recently and wanted to come back and announce my winter thru-hike plans for the Long Trail. Having talked about it last year with a fellow '14 NOBO friend, we decided that winter 2016 into 17 was going to be the best time for both of our schedules to undertake the next trail. My work schedule drops in December/early January and he's still in college so it will (should) work perfectly with our timing to complete the 273 miles before we have to be back in the real world.

I thoroughly blogged my Appalachian Trail adventure two, almost three, years ago, and plan to do the same thing next month. We'll be leaving from Adams, MA on December 19th and beginning our northbound trek.

If you're interested in following along, I'm going to be updating daily at www.2180miles.com (pending cell service) and will try and simultaneously post to TrailJournals as I go with the hopes of reaching the audience base there too.

Just wanted to let those of you who follow along in the L.T. area what was going down.

Onward & upward,

Texaco

hikeandbike5

11-25-2016, 17:47

cool thanks excited to read and follow along!

Kerosene

11-25-2016, 18:45

That will certainly be an adventure, Texaco. Frankly, some northern sections might be easier in deep snow (assuming you have the right snowshoes or crampons) than they are when the rock is slick and wet.

I'm assuming that you and your friend have done a fair amount of winter backpacking in deeper snow and are adept at keeping yourself from the sweat/freeze cycle...something that I've always found difficult to achieve. If you haven't, then get out there for a few weekend hikes beforehand to tune your gear and walking style; it is a lot different from that sub-20 pound pack you probably hiked with for most of your AT thru-hike! You'll probably have more bailout options if you start at the VT/MA border, which will allow you to get used to deeper snow and hairier weather as you head north, plus figure out just how much food you'll need between resupply points.

Best of luck!

Wolf - 23000

11-25-2016, 20:22

Winter thru-hiking the Long Trail is a SERIOUS BUTT KICKER! I know probably better than anyone. I have already posted a few suggestions prior from my own winter Long Trail thru-hike experience but I will repost a few.

First, if you don't have a great deal of winter experience, DO NOT even try it!!! The temperatures are EXTREME! It will freeze skin in seconds. Mother nature is NOT forgiving out there. Hiking even 10 miles is a challenge, it will feel like 30. If you're hiking with someone it won't be as bad but it will still wear you out. The trail has a lot of blow-downs from the winter that you are going to have to climb over. That also means wearing the smaller snow-shoes. The trail is too narrow for large snow-shoes in most places.

Second, plan on stopping around noon to melt snow for water. You may not notice it at first but you have to keep your energy up. If you are going to try to hike all day with the water you make from camp, you are not going to be drinking enough. If you try carrying too much, your water will freeze. There is almost no running water on the whole trail. Everything is frozen solid.

Third, the long trail is a green tunnel. That is also going to play against you while the snow from the trees falls down on top of you. You will physically be hiking around like a frozen snowman. Goretex will freeze with you wearing it. The best solution I found to resolve this is wearing a poncho.

Carry extra fuel. You are going to be using a lot of fuel for cooking/melting snow. I found it paid off carrying an extra pot. If you don't want your food to be frozen, only cook several dishes of small amounts. Use the second pot for melting snow while you are eating. It also pays to have a wooden or plastic spoon instead of a metal spoon.

Stay safe and have fun!

Wolf

Deacon

11-25-2016, 21:04

I have to agree with Wolf above. I for one IMHO, think it is nuts to go over Mt. Mansfield if there is deep snow. If it's slippery icey, you can easily fall to your death.

That's just my perception having done the LT in July.

Dogwood

11-25-2016, 21:15

Look on the bright side. You'll have no issue finding lean to space. And, the mud will be frozen.:D It could be a hut to hut like winter mountaineering experience. Pushing through narrow single track in thick evergreens with a recent snowfall should be memorable.

mark schofield

11-26-2016, 07:46

I'm looking forward to following your adventure.

LoneStranger

11-26-2016, 09:53

...
It also pays to have a wooden or plastic spoon instead of a metal spoon.

There is great wisdom in that statement.

Have you ever winter hiked with a thermos to keep your water from freezing Wolf? Dang thing weighs over a pound but I fill my stainless with boiled water in the morning and use it to melt the ice in my insulated drinking bottle all day.

Texaco if you haven't perused this thread from a few months ago there was a lot of good discussion there on the topic of doing the LT in Winter http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/120285-Winter-thru-hike

colorado_rob

11-26-2016, 10:31

Couple of thoughts, if the OP is reading this, not sure he is...

First, I'm jealous! My wife and I were talking about trying this feat this year, but with some family obligations over the holidays (which we'll actively avoid next year), we have to wait a year.

Of course this will be a total but-kicker and frigid cold a lot, but of course, that's part of the appeal!

I just did a LT ETE this last late-September, with a close eye on stuff with the thought of doing it again (with my wife) in the winter. Lots of folks talked about the doom and gloom of the "tunnel" thing, how trees would be weighted down with snow making the track very difficult to follow. I'm sure this is a major hurdle to getting this done, BUT, I did notice that the trees closest to the trail that would be "weighted down" were primarily deciduous (won't hold any snow), while the evergreens tended to be cut back from the trail a bit more, meaning maybe this concern is slightly overstated.

Timing of the hike: To get this thing done reasonably, I like the idea of the late December start; bigger chance of non-epic snow levels that early.

One minor concern, and this is just me: We have various "winter challenges" out here in Colorado, one of which is climbing all the CO 14ers in calendar winter. Only 8 people have done it. But the climbing community has strict "rules", one of which is the climbs have to actually be in calendar winter. December 19th (and some years, the 20th) does not count as calendar winter.

As far as I can tell, this feat (a winter LT thru) has never been accomplished. If you (OP) are successful, but given a reasonably strict criterion, it still will not have been because you are starting in late fall, not strictly winter (December 19th). Excellent chance you could care less, and that's 100% fine. I'm just saying "for the record" that if you start in actual calendar winter (the 21st) and pull this off, you will have done something no one has done.

Just my 2 cents! Good luck, and have fun! We'll certainly be following along.

Deadeye

11-26-2016, 11:13

I agree with Wolf and others that this is a serious endeavor, and most of his points, but disagree about the lack of running water. Even in the coldest temps, most sources are flowing, but the water will freeze pretty quickly once you get it in whatever containers you use! I also have only one suggestion about gear: bring a CCF pad in addition to your inflatable. The extra warmth is welcome, the weight penalty is minimal, and if your inflatable springs a leak you'll appreciate the CCF!

rafe

11-26-2016, 11:20

Texaco, have you hiked all of the LT yet?

Just be aware that there are some... interesting sections, north of Killington. Stuff that makes most of the AT look like child's play. Stuff that I'd be wary of doing in deep snow or with any amount of ice. Aside from the steepness and footing issues -- I'd be concerned with navigation, ie., just staying on the trail. Challenging enough in summer, in some places. So much green tunnel.

On the plus side, as others have mentioned, you'll have less mud to deal with.

Deadeye

11-26-2016, 13:39

For me, one of the biggest challenges to LT winter hiking is the deep snow - at any elevation. Ideally the LT is maintained as a 4 foot wide by 8 foot tall "tunnel" through the woods. Picture 3 feet of snow on the ground, and heavy snow bending the trees over the trail. Now that 8 foot tall tunnel is 4 or 5 feet tall, and you're duckwalking with a winter-laden pack for miles. Not expecting 3 feet of snow in December? Woodford, VT, southern LT, got 26 inches the day before Thanksgiving this year! In these conditions, just finding the trail can be very time-consuming. It's just plain exhausting. Along some of the highest ridgelines, you may be walking on top of trees - watch out for fir traps.

On the plus side, much of the trail will be well-packed, especially around higher peaks, places with views, or gentler terrain where xc skiers go. Many of the most difficult places, such as the forehead and chin on Mansfield, have bad-weather bypasses that avoid the steepest pitches. No mud is (almost) guaranteed. No bugs. Usually no bears, but the mice will still be hanging around the shelters. Absolute quiet, plenty of solitude. Some of the clearest skies and cleanest air you can get in the US.

I hope you have a blast.

Slo-go'en

11-26-2016, 13:52

The snow is already starting to pile up in the Greens (and here in the Whites). Looks like it might be a real winter this season. Be sure to get snowshoes with heal lifters, it will make going up the steep climbs a lot easier. But there might not be enough snow in 3 weeks to make snowshoes usable, but enough to make it really difficult to hike through.

Cell service in Vermont is real sketchy, but should be okay around the ski areas. Speaking of ski areas, there are quite a few ski trials you will either have to go up, go down or cross which can be a real challenge trying to avoid being run over by skiers.

Slo-go'en

11-26-2016, 13:57

Dogwood

11-26-2016, 14:10

For me, one of the biggest challenges to LT winter hiking is the deep snow - at any elevation. Ideally the LT is maintained as a 4 foot wide by 8 foot tall "tunnel" through the woods. Picture 3 feet of snow on the ground, and heavy snow bending the trees over the trail. Now that 8 foot tall tunnel is 4 or 5 feet tall, and you're duckwalking with a winter-laden pack for miles. Not expecting 3 feet of snow in December? Woodford, VT, southern LT, got 26 inches the day before Thanksgiving this year! In these conditions, just finding the trail can be very time-consuming. It's just plain exhausting. Along some of the highest ridgelines, you may be walking on top of trees - watch out for fir traps.

That's describing in greater detail the memorable tight single track through dense evergreen stands scenario. You must get out in winter because that's what it can be like in those places. Finding deep snow covered trail and negotiating sno/ice covered trail construction apparatus poses additional challenges. Exposure can be significant on Mansfield, Camel's Hump, Jay, Bromley, Killington, etc.

Late Dec taking along snowshoes are strong options to consider. Might go SOBO rather than NOBO too as there are likely advantages.

Dogwood

11-26-2016, 14:11

Praha4

11-26-2016, 14:40

The GMC magazine published a great article a couple years ago about a pair of GMC members/caretakers who did a SoBo winter LT thru hike. Check out that article, it had some great 'lessons learned'. There were days they had to get off trail due to weather. The LT north of Lincoln Gap is very tough hiking, and north of Appalachian Gap is even tougher.

I recall the terrible tragedy of Kate Matrosova, who died in the Whites over President's Day weekend 2015. Similar conditions will exist on the LT in winter.

best of luck

colorado_rob

11-26-2016, 16:23

The GMC magazine published a great article a couple years ago about a pair of GMC members/caretakers who did a SoBo winter LT thru hike. Check out that article, it had some great 'lessons learned'.
Is this article available somewhere? I sure would like to read it. I did a modest search a few months back and couldn't find anyone on an online record who had done the complete LT in actual winter, good to know there is actually someone, but I'd love to read about it.

One other very GOOD thing about all the ski areas is that they will be running, and therefore you can grab a free lift ride down into towns/resorts, warm up, fuel up, then ride back up and continue.

I did indeed have a tough time following the white blazes a time or two passing through the ski areas (in September, when it should be easy!), so this indeed will take some care and maybe a good set of GPS points. I personally would have a thorough set of GPS points for this entire endeavor. Having hiked through many working ski areas in the past, however, and being a lifelong skier myself, I don't see any significant danger of being collided with.

Texaco

11-26-2016, 16:36

Wow, I was not expecting this kind of response. I've read everything, and will go back through and reply accordingly.

Thanks all!

rafe

11-26-2016, 16:49

Oh, another thing about the ski areas, finding where the trail goes back into the woods is a real challenge. It can be challenge when there isn't any snow. The blazes are covered with snow and the opening obscured so that skiers don't go down it. You can waste a lot of time tying to find the exit off the ski slope!

Aye to that, it was a challenge finding the "turn off" on Upper FIS at Sugarbush, even after having skied it dozens of times. And when I did, it was so gnarly I had to wonder if this was indeed the trail.

LT doesn't approach the slopes at Stowe or Stratton as far as I know, but it certainly does at Middlebury, Sugarbush, Mad River Glen, Smugglers Notch (Madonna Peak) and Jay. I think the odds of getting "run over" by a skier are pretty slim. And if it happened the skier would be at fault -- read the fine print on any lift pass.

Dogwood

11-26-2016, 17:02

Wow, I was not expecting this kind of response. I've read everything, and will go back through and reply accordingly.

Thanks all!

That's excellent. There will be a test afterwards. :D

Wolf - 23000

11-26-2016, 22:10

There is great wisdom in that statement.

Have you ever winter hiked with a thermos to keep your water from freezing Wolf? Dang thing weighs over a pound but I fill my stainless with boiled water in the morning and use it to melt the ice in my insulated drinking bottle all day.

Texaco if you haven't perused this thread from a few months ago there was a lot of good discussion there on the topic of doing the LT in Winter http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/120285-Winter-thru-hike

I used thermos-like insulation water-bottle covers. They do helped but you can only carry so much water with them. There is a huge amount of effort constancy breaking snow, route finding, etc. Once you open up that lid, you boiling water is going to quickly loose a lot of heat fast. You can add mix snow in with the water and get a little bit more but it wasn't worth it. The snow would cool down the water I did have. It is a trade off. If you carry much water, it is going to weigh you down more and make it harder to break snow. For myself, I found the best course of action was to simple to melt snow by mid-day.

V/R

Wolf

Slo-go'en

11-26-2016, 22:51

[QUOTE=Wolf - 23000;2107144If you carry much water, it is going to weigh you down more and make it harder to break snow. For myself, I found the best course of action was to simple to melt snow by mid-day Wolf[/QUOTE]

It can beneficial to carry an ice axe, if for no other reason then to break through the ice in a stream to get to the water.

Wolf - 23000

11-27-2016, 06:27

It can beneficial to carry an ice axe, if for no other reason then to break through the ice in a stream to get to the water.

Others may had their own experience but there was only one stream that I saw flowing. Everything else was FROZEN solid or under several feet of snow where it could not be seen. No springs, even the lakes were frozen to a point I was able to hike on top.

An ice axe could help chip out ice but normally it was just easier to just grab some snow and compact it down in the cooking pot.

Wolf

Praha4

11-27-2016, 15:58

the article was in the GMC's quarterly "Long Trail News" magazine, as I recall I saw the story in a copy that was left in a laundromat in Pearisburg, VA back in April 2013...while I was on an AT section hike. It's been a while, but I think the LT winter hike in that story was done the previous winter 2012-13.

GMC HQ may still have it on file.

Wolf - 23000

11-27-2016, 17:52

fastfoxengineering

11-27-2016, 23:52

https://www.40below.com/products_detail.php?ProductID=19

these bottles plus the same companies insulated bottle covers work great.

I would probably bring along 2x 1.5L's in the bottle covers and keep another 1L in my pack wrapped in a sock or something

but.. I have no intentions of thru hiking the LT in winter

egilbe

11-28-2016, 08:36

1.5 liters are pretty big bottles. They dont fit in my pack's pockets.

Slo-go'en

11-28-2016, 13:37

Winter is the one time you do want to carry the heavy, wide mouth quart Nalgene bottles. And get insulated sleeves to cover them. I have two, one is thin and just insulates the body of the bottle for when it's not too cold and one made with 1/4 closed cell foam insulation that includes a cover to totally insulate the bottle for when it's really cold.

Texaco

11-28-2016, 22:59

Alright guys, here we go...

That will certainly be an adventure, Texaco. Frankly, some northern sections might be easier in deep snow (assuming you have the right snowshoes or crampons) than they are when the rock is slick and wet.

I'm assuming that you and your friend have done a fair amount of winter backpacking in deeper snow and are adept at keeping yourself from the sweat/freeze cycle...something that I've always found difficult to achieve. If you haven't, then get out there for a few weekend hikes beforehand to tune your gear and walking style; it is a lot different from that sub-20 pound pack you probably hiked with for most of your AT thru-hike! You'll probably have more bailout options if you start at the VT/MA border, which will allow you to get used to deeper snow and hairier weather as you head north, plus figure out just how much food you'll need between resupply points.

Best of luck!

I've done a fair bit of winter hiking in the Whites, my dad's an in-winter NH48’er, but I do plan on a few more nights up in the Franconia/Crawford region this weekend and next week testing this specific pack set-up out. Waiting for my new snowshoes to get in from Backcountry. Despite my speedy thru, my A.T. pack weight was actually around 30lbs with camera and electronic gear which allowed me to blog so thoroughly. I think this pack weight will come in around 5 lbs more than that. Total weight is a guess at this point, though.

We are planning to begin in Adams and head north, much for the same idea as you posted, we’ll get further up as the weather conditions worsen. Also, having already done the first hundred or so miles while white-blazing to Maine, we’re familiar with that region which might allow us quicker miles in the beginning to save up for slower days further north.

Winter thru-hiking the Long Trail is a SERIOUS BUTT KICKER!
Second, plan on stopping around noon to melt snow for water. You may not notice it at first but you have to keep your energy up.

Third, the long trail is a green tunnel. That is also going to play against you while the snow from the trees falls down on top of you.

Carry extra fuel.

It also pays to have a wooden or plastic spoon instead of a metal spoon.

Stay safe and have fun!

All great advice, Wolf. Thanks for commenting.

The details about water are definitely helpful, as that’s something I’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking about. I knew early on that my 3-season Sawyer Squeeze wasn’t going to cut it with the regular/full time sub-freezing temperatures. The benefit of the two of us hiking is that we will be splitting weight of the tent, each carrying 8oz fuel canisters, and 2 separate stoves. There will be a redundancy of critical gear.

My plan for upper body gear day to day hiking is a long poly underwear layer, a mid weight fleece quarter zip midlayer, and my Marmot PreCip jacket with the hood (re: snow falling from above) with a microfleece hat that covers my ears. I also have a fleece facemask/balaclava type to protect against frostbite on my cheeks. I’m strongly considering ski goggles as well for both depth perception and eye protection. Thoughts on the goggles?

I’ve got a strong plastic spoon I plan to bring.

Texaco if you haven't perused this thread from a few months ago there was a lot of good discussion there on the topic of doing the LT in Winter http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/120285-Winter-thru-hike

Thanks Stranger! I’ve looked through it, and plan to again a few more times.

First, I'm jealous! My wife and I were talking about trying this feat this year.

Of course this will be a total but-kicker and frigid cold a lot, but of course, that's part of the appeal!

…meaning maybe this concern is slightly overstated.

Timing of the hike: To get this thing done reasonably, I like the idea of the late December start; bigger chance of non-epic snow levels that early.

Excellent chance you could care less, and that's 100% fine. I'm just saying "for the record" that if you start in actual calendar winter (the 21st) and pull this off, you will have done something no one has done.
QUOTE]

Rob,

Thanks for chiming in. It’s great to hear that you and your wife were talking about the same thing. I know you said you hiked E2E in the fall, hopefully I can help provide some info for you for your hike next winter. I’ll be interested to see how the green tunnel syndrome is. It’s been interesting enough to follow weather patterns thus far, see photos of the Whites from friends (headed up there this weekend, so that will be interesting to get a first hand eye on).

Regarding timing, you bring up a fascinating point that I had not considered. I’m a records kind of guy, and I thrive on challenges. My A.T. experience left me with a 62 mile “day” (20.5 hours) out of Harper’s Ferry as a self challenge, and I typically would hike 30 or more miles each Sunday as a self-imposed “Sunday Challenge” just to keep things interesting. I know there’s some debate on here as to whether or not it’s on record of having been done before. I plan to call the GMC tomorrow and ask them the details. If it has been done before, I’ll start as planned on 19. There’s a deadline for me to finish (I have to be in Orlando the 15th of January) so 48 hours could make or break the hike. Need to be smart in that regard. If it technically has not been done before… well… 12/21 it is.

Looking forward to staying in touch. Hopefully the blog provides some entertainment and insight for you. Thanks again!

[QUOTE=Deadeye;2106979] I also have only one suggestion about gear: bring a CCF pad in addition to your inflatable. QUOTE]

My winter backpack is a Cold Cold World Chaos pack. The padding/back support is removable as an extra layer of foam under an inflatable pad. I think that’ll do if necessary as some extra insulation or as an emergency backup if need be! Thanks for your suggestion, definitely a valid point.

[QUOTE=rafe;2106982]Texaco, have you hiked all of the LT yet?

Just be aware that there are some... interesting sections, north of Killington. Stuff that makes most of the AT look like child's play. Stuff that I'd be wary of doing in deep snow or with any amount of ice. Aside from the steepness and footing issues -- I'd be concerned with navigation, ie., just staying on the trail. Challenging enough in summer, in some places. So much green tunnel.

On the plus side, as others have mentioned, you'll have less mud to deal with.

Rafe – I haven’t hiked the northern part after the A.T. heads to the whites. I appreciate the heads up, and will definitely be exercising caution in the unknown territory. I think that hiking as a team will allow us an edge with staying mentally sharp and supported during those tougher sections or worse weather.

I have the weatherproof maps, Guthook’s Long Trail app on my phone (hugely helpful on the A.T. with regard to finding shelters, knowing exact location), and will have a separate GPS app that I use while on Overland expeditions in my Jeep that will show my exact GPS location in relation to the trail. Yes, I know about electronics and battery in cold and all that. I carry spare battery banks for my electronics in order to maintain the blog while off the grid, so I’m not as concerned about losing power. We’ll be keen to keep an eye on where we are.

Thanks for the thoughts. Vermud be damned.

For me, one of the biggest challenges to LT winter hiking is the deep snow. Not expecting 3 feet of snow in December? Woodford, VT, southern LT, got 26 inches the day before Thanksgiving this year! In these conditions, just finding the trail can be very time-consuming. It's just plain exhausting.

On the plus side, much of the trail will be well-packed, especially around higher peaks, places with views, or gentler terrain where xc skiers go. Many of the most difficult places, such as the forehead and chin on Mansfield, have bad-weather bypasses that avoid the steepest pitches. No mud is (almost) guaranteed. No bugs. Usually no bears, but the mice will still be hanging around the shelters. Absolute quiet, plenty of solitude. Some of the clearest skies and cleanest air you can get in the US.

I hope you have a blast.

As I said above, it’s been interesting to watch the weather thus far this year, and I’ll definitely be continuing to keep an eye on it as we get closer to my departure date. I’m hoping that my GPS backups to printed maps will lend a hand at finding the trail when/if need be.

Your second paragraph made me smile. I too look forward to clear winter skies (we’ll be hiking between full moons, so it should be startlingly dark on most nights… I’m an astrophotographer so I live for that kind of thing) but the solitude on the trail will be amazing. Thanks for the well wishes, hope you follow along on the blog.

The snow is already starting to pile up in the Greens (and here in the Whites). Looks like it might be a real winter this season. Be sure to get snowshoes with heal lifters, it will make going up the steep climbs a lot easier. But there might not be enough snow in 3 weeks to make snowshoes usable, but enough to make it really difficult to hike through.

Cell service in Vermont is real sketchy, but should be okay around the ski areas. Speaking of ski areas, there are quite a few ski trials you will either have to go up, go down or cross which can be a real challenge trying to avoid being run over by skiers.

I’ve got shoes with heel lifters, Tubbs Flex Alps. I’ll be interested to see just how much snow we run into.

I had AT&T on the A.T. 2(almost 3!) years ago and had consistent 4G/LTE service up in the mountains. Hoping it’s stayed the same or perhaps gotten a little better. My pack is bright red, and Marmot shell is bright red. Hoping I stick out like a sore thumb on a white washed ski slope :)

One other very GOOD thing about all the ski areas is that they will be running, and therefore you can grab a free lift ride down into towns/resorts, warm up, fuel up, then ride back up and continue.

Totally valid points!

There has been several people prior to 2012-13 who have winter hike the Long Trail.

Wolf

If you have any links, I’d love to see them. Having a hard time finding any on my own aside the couple from 2012/13 who finished on the Catamount Trail instead of the L.T. due to it being “basically impassable” (their words via a Facebook post). My plan is to call the GMC tomorrow and find out what they have on record.

I would probably bring along 2x 1.5L's in the bottle covers and keep another 1L in my pack wrapped in a sock or something

but.. I have no intentions of thru hiking the LT in winter

Winter is the one time you do want to carry the heavy, wide mouth quart Nalgene bottles. And get insulated sleeves to cover them. I have two, one is thin and just insulates the body of the bottle for when it's not too cold and one made with 1/4 closed cell foam insulation that includes a cover to totally insulate the bottle for when it's really cold.

Regarding both of your posts, I have 2x the ultra-light Nalgene bottles, wide mouth with the fancy plastic inserts. Also have neoprene insulation covers for them. Minimal weight that add a little bit more insulation to the things.

Texaco

11-28-2016, 23:02

Okay so! That's pretty much all the big ticket thoughts/comments from you guys. I really appreciate everyone reaching out and talking to me about their experiences and suggestions. Definitely have been helpful and have pushed me to consider different aspects of my hike. This is a great community, and it's nice to be off the typical "next year's A.T. class" threads with everyone and their mother chiming in with silly information.

I'm going to REI tomorrow for some small things. Once I get my new compression sack (compressing a -15 synth. bag is a lot different from a 20* down bag) then I can get you guys some more stats on bag weight and actual packed gear. Definitely will be interested in all your thoughts on what's on my back.

Thanks guys for taking the time to chime in. Be sure to check out the blog, 2180miles.com, and register for the email updates if you want. I won't spam you with stupid stuff, but there will hopefully be regular posts about the hike itself, along with a few more pre-hike posts regarding gear and prep.

Look forward to hearing back from you all.

Tex

Dogwood

11-28-2016, 23:18

Texaco, don't forget the corn cob pipe, coal for two eyes, button for nose, top hat and broomstick. :)

Happy Birthday.

Wolf - 23000

11-29-2016, 06:25

All great advice, Wolf. Thanks for commenting.

The details about water are definitely helpful, as that’s something I’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking about. I knew early on that my 3-season Sawyer Squeeze wasn’t going to cut it with the regular/full time sub-freezing temperatures. The benefit of the two of us hiking is that we will be splitting weight of the tent, each carrying 8oz fuel canisters, and 2 separate stoves. There will be a redundancy of critical gear.

My plan for upper body gear day to day hiking is a long poly underwear layer, a mid weight fleece quarter zip midlayer, and my Marmot PreCip jacket with the hood (re: snow falling from above) with a microfleece hat that covers my ears. I also have a fleece facemask/balaclava type to protect against frostbite on my cheeks. I’m strongly considering ski goggles as well for both depth perception and eye protection. Thoughts on the goggles?

I’ve got a strong plastic spoon I plan to bring.

I have the weatherproof maps, Guthook’s Long Trail app on my phone (hugely helpful on the A.T. with regard to finding shelters, knowing exact location), and will have a separate GPS app that I use while on Overland expeditions in my Jeep that will show my exact GPS location in relation to the trail. Yes, I know about electronics and battery in cold and all that. I carry spare battery banks for my electronics in order to maintain the blog while off the grid, so I’m not as concerned about losing power. We’ll be keen to keep an eye on where we are.

If you have any links, I’d love to see them. Having a hard time finding any on my own aside the couple from 2012/13 who finished on the Catamount Trail instead of the L.T. due to it being “basically impassable” (their words via a Facebook post). My plan is to call the GMC tomorrow and find out what they have on record.

Texaco,
Just a couple points. Winter hiking the Long Trail is a SERIOUS hike that can very quickly turn out BAD. I’m going to be brutally honest because this hike can end lives. First your cell phone app WILL NOT WORK. When I took my cell phone winter hiking in Maine (2005) full charge. While gearing up from my car, in less than 20 minutes I found my cell phone completely DEAD. Cell phone batteries are not designed to handle that kind of extreme COLD. Your extra batteries will be dead before you are even able to use it. The batteries I did find that can handle the EXTREME cold are the lithium batteries made by Energizer. I used a GPS that took AA batteries and map/compass to help keep me on course.
You are also going to need more fuel. I recommend using white gas, with the ability to simmer. Canisters have come a long way but they still are not burning as hot as white gas. Your stove and amount of fuel needed is going to be drain in two ways. First by the outside temperatures is going to require more fuel to burn than your summer hike. Two the ice/snow is much colder than the water you can get from you’re AT thru-hike also requiring more fuel. For your meals, figure on at least 30 minutes per/burn to include both cooking your food and melting snow/ice.
Your Marmot jacket is going to quickly become an ice jacket. When the snow falls on top of it, your jacket is going to quickly freeze while you are wearing it. The best thing that I found that helped was wearing a poncho. A simple non-rip nylon poncho did wonders. It was also usefully in helping keep me warm while breaking for lunch.
Finally, when I did my 1995 winter Long Trail thru-hike, it was before the Internet was even popular. I’m not aware of any link of other winter LT hikers. It is difficult to post anything from the trail because of the cold and the service.

Hope this helps.

Wolf

T.S.Kobzol

11-29-2016, 07:22

I've only done 10 straight days on the LT in the summer and it was more challenging than I assumed with constant PUDs and very slippery conditions.

Good Luck. If you are from NH then you hike 4Ks in the winter like I do and thus have an idea of what you are getting into.

Except the trails in NH are usually broken out. On LT it will often not be the case.

All the advice was spot on except perhaps the comparison to conditions that caused Matrosova's death on Mt.Washington. Matrosove got picked up by the wind like a kite and got injured by the fall. I don't believe you'll encounter that and if for the few places that will be exposed and windy there will be quicker ways to retreat back into the tree line.

T.S.Kobzol

11-29-2016, 07:28

I'm still jealous you have the time to do this though :)

I've done a few winter trips to Baxter State Park. When the snow is deep and unconsolidated on the trails or munor bushwhacks it gets downright miserable. :) it's like swimming in the plastic balls at Chucky Cheese's :) :)

Texaco

11-29-2016, 11:41

Texaco, don't forget the corn cob pipe, coal for two eyes, button for nose, top hat and broomstick. :)

Happy Birthday.

Thanks Dogwood! I'm traveling with work the week before I leave, come home for 48 hours (my birthday the latter 24) then leave for this! I may not be carrying the pipe and coal, but I am hiking with a guy whose trail name is Santa so that will have to do over the Christmas holiday :)

I've only done 10 straight days on the LT in the summer and it was more challenging than I assumed with constant PUDs and very slippery conditions.

Good Luck. If you are from NH then you hike 4Ks in the winter like I do and thus have an idea of what you are getting into.

Except the trails in NH are usually broken out. On LT it will often not be the case.

All the advice was spot on except perhaps the comparison to conditions that caused Matrosova's death on Mt.Washington. Matrosove got picked up by the wind like a kite and got injured by the fall. I don't believe you'll encounter that and if for the few places that will be exposed and windy there will be quicker ways to retreat back into the tree line.

Texaco,
Just a couple points. Winter hiking the Long Trail is a SERIOUS hike that can very quickly turn out BAD.

The batteries I did find that can handle the EXTREME cold are the lithium batteries made by Energizer. I used a GPS that took AA batteries and map/compass to help keep me on course.

You are also going to need more fuel.

Your Marmot jacket is going to quickly become an ice jacket. When the snow falls on top of it, your jacket is going to quickly freeze while you are wearing it.

It is difficult to post anything from the trail because of the cold and the service.

Hope this helps.

Wolf

Thanks for the quick reply Wolf. Please don't think I'm naive to winter in the mountains. First priority is safety.

I've been a big fan of the Max Lithium 8x AAAs since forever. I use them in my SPOT tracker, headlamp, etc. They'll also be used in our 2-way walkie talkies and should be great due to their -40* rating. Appreciate the input there! I hike with my iPhone in my 1/4 zip's chest pocket, so it stays close to my body heat at all times to maintain some consistency with battery life, then sleep with it in my sleeping bag at night to keep it warm with me. I'm very aware of the depletion effect cold weather has on batteries, and am fairly experienced with working around those issues.

When I said we'd each carry an 8oz canister, I hope you didn't think I meant 2 canisters to last the entire hike... we'll plan to get off and resupply our food and fuel as necessary, and before either run fully out as I sometimes did on the A.T. - this hike isn't being taken lightly, and neither of us are inexperienced hikers. I do appreciate your concern and suggestions.

Regarding the Marmot, I had it in sub freezing, hailing, snowing, every-kind-of-winter-precipitation-ever weather while in the Smokies and further south in Georgia/TN at the beginning of my hike. It performed without issue, and I never ran across the issues you're describing. I've also worn it repeatedly on winter hikes in the Whites (summiting Moosilauke at 5*, howling winds and snow, etc) without issue. I'll remember your wisdom, and if necessary will pick up a poncho if the need arrises.

I had no issues with service last time, and am aware that it may not be as consistent further north. All of the maps I carry on my devices are fully self contained and saved offline, so they do not require cell service to view/explore. If I can't blog daily, the worst thing that happens is that people back home get anxious to read about what's going on... worse things could happen, and it drives viewership through the roof... not a terrible thing :)

Thanks again for your input, hugely helpful.

I'm still jealous you have the time to do this though :)
:)

Thanks for chiming in T.S.!

I'm self employed and have hugely supportive clients who love reading about my adventures and seeing the photos. Taking off months for the A.T. came at no expense, and I'm often pushed by clients to know when I'm going next and where I'll be adventuring. I'm lucky in that regard.

Looking forward to the ball pits of snow. Hopefully less kiddo germs.

swisscross

11-29-2016, 12:07

Texaco,
Followed your AT blog. One of the best I can remember. I still go back and read sections of it and reference it here on WB.

I lived in Burlington for a few years and remember -30 without wind chill in the city, a good 20 degrees cooler in them mountains. Not in December though)
I cannot image being in that type of weather for an extended period of time. You and Santa have some major cojones for sure.
Snow could be DEEP. The first year I was there it started snowing Dec. 1 and continued for 25 straight days. Shoveled my drive twice a day.
After three years I had enough and moved back home.

Consider a Whisperlite instead of a canister stove. Carry a canister stove for backup. Also rig it with a copper strip as it will work much better in the extreme chill.

Good luck, cannot wait to read about your trip.

Collin

11-29-2016, 14:36

Honestly, the thing I would be most worried about (other than temp and water) is the terrain. There are a lot of sections after the AT branches off where there are ladders/ropes to continue over a gap or whatnot and even more sections where I'd spend 10 minutes just figuring out how to continue down a 20 foot drop over boulders. Never snowshoed before, but I would not trust that the snow beneath me would not have air pockets in it. Also, I can't see how there will be a way to get over Mansfield. I recall a rock shelf that I had to get on all fours and I barely had enough room and that was after a rock wall climb. But, if you've done similar before, give it a shot. Maybe plan a number of bail out options.

Texaco

12-02-2016, 10:02

Texaco,
Followed your AT blog. One of the best I can remember. I still go back and read sections of it and reference it here on WB.

I lived in Burlington for a few years and remember -30 without wind chill in the city, a good 20 degrees cooler in them mountains. Not in December though)
I cannot image being in that type of weather for an extended period of time.

Good luck, cannot wait to read about your trip.

Swiss-

Thanks for the kind words. It means the world to hear/know that people still have high regard for the blog and use it as a reference point for other hikes/A.T. information. I added a poll to some of the Appalachian Trail related pages on the site and there are a lot of people that use it for research for upcoming thru-hikes. The internet is an amazing place.

It will certainly be interesting to have exposure to those kinds of temperatures for any kind of time period, you're right.

Look forward to having you follow along with the blog again. Be sure to leave comments if you want, they're a huge moral boost while I'm out on the trail itself.

Texaco

12-02-2016, 10:04

Honestly, the thing I would be most worried about (other than temp and water) is the terrain. Maybe plan a number of bail out options.

A 100% valid thought, and it is something that Santa (my hiking partner) and I have discussed. We'll have bailouts noted in case it comes down to getting out of there early, or will be ready to spend a day in the tent if there's a severe reason to. The goal here is not stupidity and hope for success, it's safety and hope for success.

Texaco

12-02-2016, 10:20

So I published another blog post last night which I welcome you all to read here at 2180miles.com (http://www.2180miles.com/the-blog/gearing-up)

Long story short, I've got all of my gear, it all fits very snugly into my pack, and I'm headed up to the Whites to test it this weekend on a 18ish mile loop around Crawford Notch. The goal is a mix of elevation and distance, and I'll be spending a night up there in the new tent. I comedically set the tent up in my living room Wednesday night, then again on my back porch last night and spent overnight sleeping outside to make sure everything worked comfortably. The -15 degree bag was HOT (fleece bottoms, long underwear poly top) and temps dropped only into the mid 30s. I'm not entirely sure what I'll see this weekend at elevation, but it won't be -15. Side note, I did not use the bag liner last night, instead leaving it stuffed down by my feet.

For those who are Whites friendly and knowledgable, the plan is to go up Signal Ridge Trail from 302, over Mt. Carrigan, down Desolation Trail, and spend the night along the Carrigan Notch trail. The next morning i'll take Nancy Pond trail around the lower elevations of Mt. Anderson and Duck Pond Mountain before making it back down to 302. My folks have a vacation property in Bartlett about 20-30 minutes away and will drop off/pick up so that I don't need to leave mine in a parking lot or be car spotted back. Weather shows a likelihood of snow, so I'm bringing my light traction and snowshoes, planning to overpack to get a good idea of how weight will be including a few days worth of food.

Anyway, that's the update as of now. Since everyone likes photos, here's one of 96% of my gear laid out in a pretty picture.

Talk soon!

37253

Texaco

12-02-2016, 10:21

Apparently in order to actually see the microscopic pretty picture, you have to click on it..

1azarus

12-02-2016, 10:52

I'm excited for you!

rafe

12-02-2016, 11:06

I see microspikes and snowshoes in that picture. Any sort of crampons? Highly recommended.

Texaco

12-02-2016, 12:16

I see microspikes and snowshoes in that picture. Any sort of crampons? Highly recommended.

I initially was planning just the two above, but in recent conversations with my dad I've been looking out for crampons. I've got a $20 coupon for REI I can use next week, so I was going to wait for that.

Any thoughts on these?: https://www.rei.com/product/798354/black-diamond-contact-strap-crampons-with-abs-plates

Another Kevin

12-02-2016, 12:39

rafe

12-02-2016, 12:49

I initially was planning just the two above, but in recent conversations with my dad I've been looking out for crampons. I've got a $20 coupon for REI I can use next week, so I was going to wait for that.

Any thoughts on these?: https://www.rei.com/product/798354/black-diamond-contact-strap-crampons-with-abs-plates

No, though they look like they'll do fine. They look very similar to Hillsounds, what I and a lot of White Mtn. winter peakbaggers use.

One of the more annoying situations in winter hiking is having to change traction devices frequently. Especially this time of year where the snow cover isn't complete, so at various times you're walking over either snow, ice, or rock. Walking on rock with crampons is a pain.

Your practice hike sounds like fun. It was eons ago but as I recall the descent of Carrigain was steep as get-out. That was in summer time.

You may want to consider a length of rope (line) and or ice axe. I'm not trying to be alarmist. Earlier this year while descending Canon, my partner and I hit a short section of trail that was, in my opinion, impassible with any of the traction devices we were carrying (we had them all.)

The trail itself was a traverse. Ground water had formed a steep, sheer-ice chute across the trail, straight down the fall line. The chute began well above the trail and continued steeply for another 100 feet down the mountain. It was a good 15-20 feet wide at the point where it crossed the trail. We looked uphill and down, couldn't see a safe way across. We ended up bushwhacking downhill along side the chute for a fair distance until we found a spot that was safe to cross. My concern at that point was finding our way back to the trail, but we got lucky and found it pretty quick.

Slo-go'en

12-02-2016, 13:22

I doubt you'll need snowshoes. Any snow tonight/tomorrow won't amount to much and the recent rain and above freezing temps has washed most of the snow we had last week away. Could be really icy though, since it's going to get cold this weekend with lows in the 20s or teens. Microspikes probably aren't going to cut it going up the steep part of Carrigan and it looks like it could be really windy up there with the front moving through. I would think twice about going up there.

The forecast maps are showing a lot of snow for the Green Mountains though, especially the northern end, which typically gets a lot of snow even if no where else does.

LoneStranger

12-02-2016, 14:09

You won't need the snowshoes, but you are smart to bring them along on your shakedown. Testing is about simulating conditions so make it as real as you can.

Desolation does have a couple of really steep sections which can be bad in the Spring when ice is really thick. If icy it should be dangerous enough right now to be fun but passable in good spikes like the Hillsounds. Personally I'd do the route you described in the other direction because I enjoy climbing Desolation a lot more than descending it in any season other than deep snowy Winter. Be safe, have fun, take pics!

Another Kevin

12-02-2016, 14:11

You may want to consider a length of rope (line) and or ice axe. I'm not trying to be alarmist. Earlier this year while descending Canon, my partner and I hit a short section of trail that was, in my opinion, impassible with any of the traction devices we were carrying (we had them all.)

Besides, without an ice axe, how are you going to have the fun of glissading back down? :D

Glissading without an ice axe is NOT fun. If you've ever done the "inadvertent glissade with tree-assisted self-arrest" manoeuvre, you won't want to do it again.

I suppose it doesn't hurt if a party carries a static line, and maybe even a harness or two, a couple of braking devices and a handful of ice screws and quickdraws. I've been on one trip to Sugarloaf (the one in the Catskills) where the ice was just unreal, and the folks who had full crampons and piolets wound up going on ahead, tying in and top-roping the guys who'd brought just microspikes or Hillsounds. Some of the local hikers call Sugarloaf 'Suicide Mountain' because of the ice conditions - much worse than the surrounding peaks, for some reason. On the other hand, with crampons and ice axe, it was fun. With French technique, you could walk right up the stuff - easier than in good weather where you'd be picking your way among the boulders.

That chute you ran into on Cannon sounds nasty! A lot of Northeast peaks have infamous spots. There's one on Blackhead that was deceptive when I did it in a five-foot snowpack. Notice that trip leader Jon has his piolet in hand:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TadfZXHHbrA/VJnbY410-8I/AAAAAAAABnk/Q84lrdMmutA/s800/jon.jpg

In low-snow conditions, you wind up needing full crampons (this guy is doing it in spikes, but I wouldn't!) for about twenty feet. Something like that can happen on almost any of our mountains if the wind was wrong in the last storm. It's a surprise you have to be prepared for.

(Source: http://www.eastcoasthiker.com/trails/blackheadrange)
(http://www.eastcoasthiker.com/trails/blackheadrange)http://www.eastcoasthiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/IMG_0603-3.jpg

DavidNH

12-02-2016, 14:17

a winter thru hike of the Long Trail. This gives new meaning to the term INSANE!!!

The Solemates

12-02-2016, 14:18

Texaco,
Just a couple points. Winter hiking the Long Trail is a SERIOUS hike that can very quickly turn out BAD. I’m going to be brutally honest because this hike can end lives. First your cell phone app WILL NOT WORK. When I took my cell phone winter hiking in Maine (2005) full charge. While gearing up from my car, in less than 20 minutes I found my cell phone completely DEAD. Cell phone batteries are not designed to handle that kind of extreme COLD. Your extra batteries will be dead before you are even able to use it. The batteries I did find that can handle the EXTREME cold are the lithium batteries made by Energizer. I used a GPS that took AA batteries and map/compass to help keep me on course.
You are also going to need more fuel. I recommend using white gas, with the ability to simmer. Canisters have come a long way but they still are not burning as hot as white gas. Your stove and amount of fuel needed is going to be drain in two ways. First by the outside temperatures is going to require more fuel to burn than your summer hike. Two the ice/snow is much colder than the water you can get from you’re AT thru-hike also requiring more fuel. For your meals, figure on at least 30 minutes per/burn to include both cooking your food and melting snow/ice.
Your Marmot jacket is going to quickly become an ice jacket. When the snow falls on top of it, your jacket is going to quickly freeze while you are wearing it. The best thing that I found that helped was wearing a poncho. A simple non-rip nylon poncho did wonders. It was also usefully in helping keep me warm while breaking for lunch.
Finally, when I did my 1995 winter Long Trail thru-hike, it was before the Internet was even popular. I’m not aware of any link of other winter LT hikers. It is difficult to post anything from the trail because of the cold and the service.

Hope this helps.

Wolf

Wisdom in these truths. I've done some extreme winter hiking, and have not been able to have operable cell phone batteries or operable canister fuel stoves - despite carrying both on my body to warm them all day, and sleeping with them inside the sleeping bag at night. Despite these best of practice precautions, they still would not work. Forget the cell phone and also use white gas.

Another Kevin

12-02-2016, 14:25

...... oops, double posted ......

rafe

12-02-2016, 15:28

Couple photos of that ice chute...

http://www.terrapinphoto.com/120216/_DSC4325.jpg

http://www.terrapinphoto.com/120216/_DSC4326.jpg

Slo-go'en

12-02-2016, 16:33

Been raining on and off all day, temps in the high 30's in the valley. But it's starting to clear and when the temp drops later tonight, the ice flows will start forming up.

T.S.Kobzol

12-02-2016, 20:17

It's snowing right now in the high pemi. I'm contemplating getting out of the tent to pee. :)

egilbe

12-02-2016, 21:05

Headed up West Bald Pate in late April37264

ice makes great photo ops

colorado_rob

12-02-2016, 21:11

T.S.Kobzol

12-02-2016, 23:14

Snowshoes are essential

colorado_rob

12-02-2016, 23:18

Snowshoes are essentialcrap, sorry, i missed the context of the "no snowshoe" comments, referring to only a near term shakedown hike, nevermind!

rafe

12-03-2016, 00:31

Snowshoes are essential

I almost always carry them on winter hikes but don't always use them. The more popular trails in the White Mountains get packed down within a day after the end of any major snowfall. Often to the point where snowshoes aren't necessary. In back country with limited foot traffic, yeah, you'll almost certainly need 'em.

Impossible to go anywhere in the White Mountains last winter without spikes or crampons. It seemed we had more ice than snow. Many of the trails were just rivers of ice.

T.S.Kobzol

12-03-2016, 07:06

rafe

12-03-2016, 11:06

I suggest taking the bypasses at either end of Mt. Mansfield, especially at the south end. I can never remember if that's the nose or the chin. There are places on the northern LT where a misstep could really ruin your day.

Keeping to the trail is a challenge in winter, if there are no prior tracks to guide you. Parts of the northern LT are hard to follow even in summer. The footpath is completely obscured, so no clues to be had looking down at your feet. Snow and ice often cover the blazes. The view outward is better in winter but the distinctions between trail and non-trail often disappear.

Slo-go'en

12-03-2016, 12:47

Yes. Whites are different. I thought somewhere you said you wouldn't take them on a LT through. That would :)

I'm typing this on a top of the mountain in a tent and it snowed all night. :) The walls are pushing in , it seems like 10 inches...i haven't looked outside yet... And I didn't bring snowhoues :) But I think it will be ok. Today I go over S.Twin, Guyot and Bonds back to the car. :)

Good luck, your probably somewhere along there right now. It takes a couple feet of snow to cover up all the rocks and sticks on the trail to make using snowshoes practical. Anything less then that and its just a lot of work to walk through. And of course, above tree line where the snow gets wind packed or just blows off into the trees lower down, snowshoes are not usable, but you do need crampons. The snow is always deepest on the trail for the 1/4 to 1/2 mile just below tree line as that's where all the snow ends up collecting when it blows off the exposed areas.

T.S.Kobzol

12-03-2016, 22:43

Out of the woods now. Yeah I could have used them today but it was ok. Breaking trail all day from Galehead to South Twin, Guyot, Bond and Bondcliff

Dogwood

12-03-2016, 23:41

Out of the woods now. Yeah I could have used them today but it was ok. Breaking trail all day from Galehead to South Twin, Guyot, Bond and Bondcliff

You have me aching. Would have liked being there doing what you did. What a great experience breaking trail. Kudos. What were the temps and winds and snow depth?

T.S.Kobzol

12-04-2016, 01:03

10 inches on top of existing snow with deeper drifts here and there, probably 15 degrees without wind chill, wind on occassions probably gusting to 60 mph ... basically it took all my strength to remain upright. Bonus, saw two snowshoe hares on Bondcliff happy as clams.

T.S.Kobzol

12-04-2016, 01:14

https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5492/31290066371_934493d683_k.jpg

Slo-go'en

12-04-2016, 19:34

T.S.Kobzol

12-04-2016, 19:42

Yeah. I was wondering when we'd get a report from him. It's his thread after all ;-)

Dogwood

12-04-2016, 19:49

Texaco

12-05-2016, 08:09

Glad you made it out alive. Wonder how the other guy made out?

Yeah. I was wondering when we'd get a report from him. It's his thread after all ;-)

Made it out just fine, gents. I'm going to get some photos onto my computer than do a brief write-up.

Texaco

12-05-2016, 21:32

Mt. Carrigan Shakedown Trip

Day 1: 9.7 mi
Day 2: 7.1 mi

I got dropped off at the Sawyer River Road summer parking lot (the gate was open to the upper lot!) around 8:30 and began my 5 mile hike up towards Carrigan's summit. Temps were in the low 30s, and a light snow began falling about a mile in (maybe 1.5mi? Right as I crossed over that first river). I took my time getting to the summit itself, letting a few groups of hikers go past me, each sporting microspikes and the typical Osprey/Gregory 25L day packs. At that point I had no traction and wasn't feeling it necessary, so I kept going bare booted. Halfway up the climb I shed my fleece layer, leaving me with my long underwear top and my Marmot shell, which did me fine to the summit. I stopped at the upper ridge walk to take photos, temps in the low 20s and wind howling across the ridge, and got chilly, but that's the photographer in me going any length for a photo. I'll have to get better at that during the thru.

I reached the summit around noon, slightly disappointed in my timing of 3.5 hours to cover 5 miles, but I'm also going to have to get used to the fact that not every thru-hike can be accomplished at 3 mph. I didn't venture up the old fire tower, but instead snuck off to the side little clearing in the woods and quickly ate a sandwich after putting my fleece back on. The wind wasn't constant, but the temperatures were much chillier. At this point there were 20+ people in the vicinity of the summit so I packed up my stuff, donned my Microspikes, and began my venture down Desolation Trail.... it appeared from the snowfall and lack of previous tracks that I was the first person to head that way in quite a while. I had no issue in my light traction, but some steps on my descent left me in snow deeper than my nearly knee-high gaiters. I flew down that segment and got to the bottom where it crosses Carrigan Notch Trail pretty quickly, running across two 48'ers (one of whom was a hiker friend of my dads) and pushing on towards Nancy Pond Trail. Deciding to cross both of the trail's rivers before stopping, I carefully navigated each being cautious to not get my boots wet or misstep. I found a nice flat spot alongside the second river around 1530hrs, with sunset at 1610hrs. I plan to hike later into the dark once Santa and I are on the trail, but in this instance I was happy to stop and get camp set up. I was able to set up the Direkt2 tent within 8 minutes of dropping my bag. I got all my gear set up inside, set up my stove just outside the tent door, and got dinner ready, only to realize that I forgot a friggin (I assure you this was not my word of choice) lighter to ignite the stove with. Dinner was a string cheese stick and a cold Pop-Tart.

With nothing else to do I slept from 1630 to 2100, waking up to pee and shed a few layers. One of the things I'll have to get used to is appropriately choosing layers to sleep with. I had initially fallen asleep with my compression shorts, fleece pants, long underwear top, fleece top, and puffy down jacket on. At 2100 I shed everything except my underwear base layers for the rest of the night. When I awoke at 0630hrs (yeah... 14 hours of sleep!) I was concerned to find just how much moisture had been absorbed into my sleeping bag. Despite shedding the layers and hopefully sweating less, I made the mistake of being super comfortable and burrowing down inside the bag itself, exhaling a ton of moisture into the bag. This is something I will not do again, as I left the bag unzipped on my heating forced-hot-water radiators today to dry out. I'm considering a VBL, but I'm wondering if by adjusting the ventilation (both vents in the tent were open, but due to snow falling I left the door closed) I'll be able to not have this issue.

Camp was struck in 45min or so as I took my time, and I was on the trail by 0800. There was 1" or so of new snowfall overnight, on top of what appeared to be relatively untravelled trail, so I stopped and strapped on my snowshoes just to check how they worked with the extra weight of my pack. I followed along with what I believe were moose tracks (doubt anyone is riding horses in the Whites) and made my way up the 1,200' climb to Norcross Pond. The trail got pretty narrow from there on, but the snowshoes continued working well and I hiked the mile or so to Nancy Pond, then began the descent back to NH302. About a half mile from Nancy Pond I met a solo hiker, we chatted for a minute then continued on. I think we both caught each other off guard, hats on covering our ears and otherwise silence in the woods. Didn't expect to see anyone.

I stopped to send my dad a text around 10, estimating my arrival at 302 for noon exactly. I descended a bit faster than I thought, and he managed to arrive at the trailhead at the exact moment I was walking into the parking lot. Serendipitous.

Take homes:
1) Don't be a moron. Bring a f'n lighter. Seriously can't believe I left that out.
2) Need a vapor barrier for my feet. My boots were wet, my socks smelled like hell after day 1. This will be horrid after a month.
3) Need to either practice better moisture management in the tent/sleeping bag, or add a VBL for that too.
4) See 1.

Honestly, other than that I think I did a great job, utilized most of the gear I brought, save for my change of clothes and other socks. SPOT worked well checking me in and tracking (on day 1... day 2 it seemed to not care), and the apparel did a great job and covering different bases of exterior temps and body temp regulation.

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts regarding the VBLs and other experiences with moisture control with sub-freezing temps.

372943729537296372993729737298

rafe

12-05-2016, 22:28

T.S.Kobzol

12-05-2016, 22:38

bigcranky

12-05-2016, 22:50

Given the conditions, I'd want more than one way to create a spark or a fire. Not just a single lighter, in other words.

Otherwise sounds like a nice trip.

Slo-go'en

12-05-2016, 23:09

As soon as you get out of your bag, before you do anything else, you need to stuff it away. This pushes all the warm, moist air out of it before it has a chance to chill down and condense. My routine is to unzip the bag, sit up and put on my upper layers, pull out my feet and put on the lower layers, then stuff the bag and roll up the mat. Don't delay on the mat or it could freeze to the bottom of the tent.

It's really tempting to start hiking in the morning with everything you got on. But it doesn't take long to warm up and start sweating and getting all those layers damp. So, you have a choice of stripping down just before you put the pack on or do it 10 minutes later.

You might want to look into gortex socks instead of a VBL.

Don't have just one lighter, have three - a back up to the back up. And maybe some matches to back up the lighters.

T.S.Kobzol

12-06-2016, 07:01

I almost think for a winter LT through a synthetic bag should be considered.

There are integrated VBL sleeping bags out there too.

Texaco

12-06-2016, 08:25

I have vbl socks and a vbl sleeping bag liner and a vb shirt that i sometimes use. Usually when the temps are forecasted to be below zero. I also have vb pants but those look seriously tinfoil weird :) but yeah it all works fine to trap heat and control outgoing moisture.

Would you mind sending me a link to your VBL socks? I tried searching the Internet last night and found a very sparse marketplace for them. Still debating the bag liner or not.

Given the conditions, I'd want more than one way to create a spark or a fire. Not just a single lighter, in other words.

Otherwise sounds like a nice trip.

Yes of course, I didn't specify that but it is my intention. I'll bring at least 2 lighters, Santa (who I'm hiking with) will also have one or two of his own. I'll probably bring a book of matches as well.

As soon as you get out of your bag, before you do anything else, you need to stuff it away. This pushes all the warm, moist air out of it before it has a chance to chill down and condense. My routine is to unzip the bag, sit up and put on my upper layers, pull out my feet and put on the lower layers, then stuff the bag and roll up the mat. Don't delay on the mat or it could freeze to the bottom of the tent.

It's really tempting to start hiking in the morning with everything you got on. But it doesn't take long to warm up and start sweating and getting all those layers damp. So, you have a choice of stripping down just before you put the pack on or do it 10 minutes later.

You might want to look into gortex socks instead of a VBL.

Don't have just one lighter, have three - a back up to the back up. And maybe some matches to back up the lighters.

Great tips for the morning routine, Slo. Thanks for that. I agree, easier to start a bit chilly and warm up!

I'll have a look into Gortex sox instead of the VBLs, especially if VBLs are as hard to come by as I'm finding.

As stated above, my plan will be for multiple lighters and matches, I just didn't clarify that in my initial trip report post.

I almost think for a winter LT through a synthetic bag should be considered.

There are integrated VBL sleeping bags out there too.

My bag for this trip is a -15* synthetic Mountain Hardwear Lumina Z-Blaze bag. The temp rating might have been why I was sweating more on the 25 degree night this past weekend, but I'd rather be comfortable in lower temps as we get further into winter so I went with a lower rated bag from the get-go.

Texaco

12-06-2016, 08:30

Nice report. Especially the "take homes" part.

In my limited winter camping I've not had the same issues with H20 vapor. I don't "burrow into" the bag as you describe. In extreme cold the bag is over my head and I'm breathing through an opening just big enough for my face. Usually just a base layer, dry socks and cap between me and the bag.

Last cold-weather outing, I remembered the lighters but failed to account for my Platy bag being frozen almost solid in the morning. Worse yet, there was still some liquid water in it, but I coudn't get at it. Grrrr. Dumb.

Thanks for the kind words. I get longwinded when writing about my days, but I do believe that's why my blog became so successful during my A.T. hike.

Now that I'm more aware of the issue at hand with moisture in this bag, I'm definitely going to go to further lengths to make sure I'm solely breathing out of the mummy face hole in the bag and not hiding down inside it. By starting in just underwear base layers (maybe even a fresh pair for sleeping that would not have the moisture of swear from my day of hiking?) I'll allow the bag to warm me up instead of trying to go in warm and sweating more. Dry sox, yes; hat on, yes.

I began the night with my Nalgene bottles in my sleeping bag to keep them warm, but after a while got tired of the cold water against my feet and put them upside down in my hiking boots. In the AM they were not frozen, so that worked well this time. While hiking I typically store them upside down so they freeze at the bottle's bottom first, and not at the wide-mouthed opening. Little tricks that I'm sure I'll hone further in on during and after this upcoming trip.

egilbe

12-06-2016, 08:31

T.S.Kobzol

12-06-2016, 08:33

Looks like you're all set with the sleeping bag then. So, I suppose you just need to dress less before you fall asleep. Contrary to some of the advice here I do use nalgene bottle as a hot water bottle. Mine never leaked. I suppose if you really were worried about that you can only use it before you get into your sleeping bag and place it standing up. However, a hot water bottle preheats your sleeping bag - this way you can jump in with less clothes on right away and if you are worried about leaks you can then take it out of the bag.

My VB socks are very old. Actually all of my VB stuff is at least 20 years old. I got it from New Hampshire company named Warmlite. They are still in business but I'm not sure if they make anything else than tents nowadays.

rafe

12-06-2016, 08:39

Always-dry base layer is a must, in my opinion. That means it can't be worn hiking.

I'm a fan of keeping a journal and summarizing lessons-learned, just as you've done. What worked and what didn't. Sometimes, for short hikes, the journal is written from memory back home. I wish I'd been more thorough about these journals over the years. Lots of early hikes weren't recorded.

T.S.Kobzol

12-06-2016, 08:46

having said that about my old VB stuff, I occassionally improvized VB socks due to various reasons. Once, I think 3 years ago in January, at Baxter State Park, Chimney Pond we hit big winds and record low temperatures. My hiking boots cold not accomodate two layers of socks so I ended up using a very thin liner sock, grocery bag and my regular wool hiking sock. Worked great. My feet were balmy. We turned around at the top of the saddle due to the high winds on the plateau.

rafe

12-06-2016, 09:11

My VB socks are very old. Actually all of my VB stuff is at least 20 years old. I got it from New Hampshire company named Warmlite. They are still in business but I'm not sure if they make anything else than tents nowadays.

They used to have a very entertaining NSFW website. Years ago. I think the good stuff's been taken down.

Where do you get VB apparel nowadays? Name brands? Product names?

I seriously need VB socks to got with my Sorrells.

Another Kevin

12-06-2016, 10:28

They used to have a very entertaining NSFW website. Years ago. I think the good stuff's been taken down.

Where do you get VB apparel nowadays? Name brands? Product names?

I seriously need VB socks to got with my Sorrells.

They still have their catalog/brochure. It still has the same models. They'll mail you one, or email you a PDF. You have to certify that you're over 18. The brochure still has a long discussion of vapor barrier clothing. There are no prices on anything, you have to call Stephenson.

The son of the original owner is running the company now. I think the old man is arranging naturist cruises, or some such.

I still do the poor man's thing with my Sorels. Thin nylon or polyester dress socks, then a double layer of bread or newspaper bags, then wool socks. Rubber bands at the ankles to keep the bags from riding down. The bread or newspaper bags have to be doubled, a single layer rips almost immediately. A double layer almost never does, but I still carry some spares.

Texaco

12-06-2016, 20:20

Forgetting a lighter is like forgetting your spoon. Everyone has done it once. I keep a firesteel and lighter in my FAK, now. I usually have a lighter in a pocket in my pack, one with my stove, too. I also have an extra plastic spoon in a pouch in my pack...just because. I like to eat.

Exactly. Every once in a while at work I have a moment like that, a "forget your lighter" experience and it never happens again. This will be one of those things. I like to eat too, picked up two of those nifty $1 plastic sporks from REI.

Looks like you're all set with the sleeping bag then. So, I suppose you just need to dress less before you fall asleep. Contrary to some of the advice here I do use nalgene bottle as a hot water bottle.

Yeah, definitely going to have to experiment with less clothing before bed. I sleep cold anyway on a regular basis at home, I think I just was chilly from setting the tent and felt the need to be comfy right off the bat.

I, too, keep Nalgenes in my sleeping bag. I give them an incredibly vigorous shake first to make sure they’re sealed, but then I throw them in. Sometimes in my spare socks to keep me from burning my feet, depending on how hot the water is.

Always-dry base layer is a must, in my opinion. That means it can't be worn hiking.

I'm a fan of keeping a journal and summarizing lessons-learned, just as you've done. What worked and what didn't. Sometimes, for short hikes, the journal is written from memory back home. I wish I'd been more thorough about these journals over the years. Lots of early hikes weren't recorded.

Lesson learned on the base layer being dry. I had a set of spare base layers in my clothes bag, but didn’t think to change them out.

One of the greatest choices I have made as a hiker and adventurer is the chronicling of my trips. The daily blog of the A.T. has left me with 190,000 words depicting my adventure, and has in turn left a storyline and research database for countless prospective hikers. I can go back and read through, smile, relive moments, etc. I take notes sometimes as I take breaks on the trail, or stop to take a photo, jotting enough detail to jog my memory from my tent later that night. It can be exhausting in the moment, but well worth it days and months later. I’m sure later in life I’ll be even more appreciative.

having said that about my old VB stuff, I occassionally improvized VB socks due to various reasons. Once, I think 3 years ago in January, at Baxter State Park, Chimney Pond we hit big winds and record low temperatures. My hiking boots cold not accomodate two layers of socks so I ended up using a very thin liner sock, grocery bag and my regular wool hiking sock. Worked great. My feet were balmy. We turned around at the top of the saddle due to the high winds on the plateau.

Copy that on the grocery bag front. Might be the best, most easily renewable method of accomplishing this.

They still have their catalog/brochure. It still has the same models. They'll mail you one, or email you a PDF. You have to certify that you're over 18. The brochure still has a long discussion of vapor barrier clothing. There are no prices on anything, you have to call Stephenson.

I still do the poor man's thing with my Sorels. Thin nylon or polyester dress socks, then a double layer of bread or newspaper bags, then wool socks. Rubber bands at the ankles to keep the bags from riding down. The bread or newspaper bags have to be doubled, a single layer rips almost immediately. A double layer almost never does, but I still carry some spares.

I e-mailed and asked for a catalog. Depending on price, I’ll order. Otherwise I’ll follow suit with you and Kobzol and do plastic bags over my liners. Well worth it for this multi-week trip to make sure I’ve got some barrier between my feet and the wool layer.

Soggybottom

12-06-2016, 22:55

My only thought about hiking the LT, I have done 117 miles south to north, is like the one guy said about Mt Mansfield there are sections like Clarendon gorge which are extremely steep and will take some time to descend. You may not be able to stop yourself from falling. And some of the rock climbs are just plan dangerous in wet weather. I am not even talking icy weather. Make sure you have means to bug out. Satellite phone or spot would be smart.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LoneStranger

12-07-2016, 09:14

For multi-night trips in freezing temps I've found a neoprene balaclava to be a very beneficial vapor barrier. As a quilt user my head is sticking out with a Mad Bomber as my outer layer. Before I got the barrier I'd wake up with that hat covered in frost every morning. Now the moisture is kept inside the balaclava so my hat stays unfrozen for the entire trip. Makes your hair a bit funky though, something I normally don't notice as a hiker, so if I'm noticing it may be a bit more than a bit heh.

Glad you enjoyed Carigain but sorry you didn't hit the tower. Very nice view of the entire Pemi from up there.

Slo-go'en

12-07-2016, 14:13

For multi-night trips in freezing temps I've found a neoprene balaclava to be a very beneficial vapor barrier..

I have a gortex balaclava which I used above tree line in extreme conditions, along with a neoprene face mask and googles. The gortex balaclava was really tight on my head, it might fit better now that I have less hair...

The LT doesn't have too much in the way of above tree line, just the mile or two on Mansfield and a few exposed spots like the top of Camels hump. But it could still be pretty windy along the ridges where the trees offer little protection and when traversing ski slope areas.

Last winter would have been the time to do this hike since it was mild winter little snow. This winter is shaping up to be a more typical New England extreme winter.

LoneStranger

12-07-2016, 14:19

I have different gear for daytime use Slo-go'en. The balaclava I mentioned is dedicated for sleep like the rest of my cold weather sleep system. It is used to keep head moisture from passing into your insulation layers. In my case that is a heavier insulating balaclava and my rabbit lined hat, but the principle applies to those whose heads are wrapped inside their mummy bag too. The head puts out a lot of moisture during the night so that little item can really cut down frost build up.

Texaco

12-11-2016, 10:10

My only thought about hiking the LT, I have done 117 miles south to north, is like the one guy said about Mt Mansfield there are sections like Clarendon gorge which are extremely steep and will take some time to descend. Make sure you have means to bug out. Satellite phone or spot would be smart.

Appreciate the heads up. Both myself and Santa, whom I'm hiking with, have SPOTs, and I also carry the $100,000 S&R insurance policy.

Glad you enjoyed Carigain but sorry you didn't hit the tower. Very nice view of the entire Pemi from up there.

Great thought with the balaclava. Re: the tower, there wasn't much of a view anyway as the snow and clouds were both heavy!

Last winter would have been the time to do this hike since it was mild winter little snow. This winter is shaping up to be a more typical New England extreme winter.

I've got a neoprene/fleece face mask that I've used (and used last weekend) that provides great protection for my face above treeline in windy conditions. When my goggles are added, it provides 100% coverage along with my hat of my face from the elements. I'll certainly be utilizing this on the trail. I laughed at your last comment... the idea for hiking this in winter came up originally at Thanksgiving 2015, and Santa and I threw it out there as a "hey let's leave for the LT in 3 weeks!" but then decided it was too spontaneous. I can't choose the weather, I can only hike when it's safe to do so. We'll see how this goes! Hopefully a successful trip with a great storyline.

Texaco

12-11-2016, 10:12

Side note re: VBL...

I just ordered a pair of VBL socks from the Connecticut company RBH Designs (http://www.rbhdesigns.com/product/2043/vaprthrm-and-hi-and-rise-insulated-socks.htm). They were $46 delivered, and I wrote a note to hopefully ensure they'll get to me by the 17th of December. I'm in Florida currently on my last work trip of the year, then fly home Friday night for my birthday before Santa and I depart for the Long Trail. At this point it's minute details to tweak. I bought four different BIC lighters at the grocery store Friday night.. so there's a *bit* of redundancy there.

Thanks again everyone for the support and wisdom with this undertaking!

Slo-go'en

12-11-2016, 12:53

jeffmeh

12-11-2016, 13:54

Wishing you guys a fantastic and safe trip. :)

Deacon

12-11-2016, 14:09

A Long Trail scene from the winter issue of the Long Trail News:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161211/f564ae848fdcbcbf439b5874d0a13237.jpg

Texaco

12-11-2016, 14:14

While you've been basking in the sun in Florida, its been snowing here all week (flurries and squalls, which can add up) and when it finally cleared late yesterday, the temps dropped to 3 degrees this morning. Big storm moving in for tonight/tomorrow with 6-8" for us in the Whites. Vermont has been getting a lot of lake effect snow. I hope your ready for this! Your going to be breaking trail from day one.

I flew out of Boston yesterday, so I've been in New England for the last few weeks, including the weather patterns in the past few days! It was 15 on my back porch when I left for Logan yesterday morning.

Appreciate the encouragement!

Texaco

12-11-2016, 14:15

Wishing you guys a fantastic and safe trip. :)

Thanks Jeff! Appreciate it.

A Long Trail scene from the winter issue of the Long Trail News

Great cover photo!

StubbleJumper

12-11-2016, 19:17

MuddyWaters

12-11-2016, 19:23

I cant hardly use a lighter to light stove with cold fingers.
A small firesteel can work easier to drop a shower of sparks onto stove sometimes.

jeffmeh

12-11-2016, 20:26

I would recommend a magnesium fire starter as a backup to the lighters, or at least some waterproof matches in a sealed container.

Texaco

12-11-2016, 20:29

I bought four different BIC lighters at the grocery store Friday night.. so there's a *bit* of redundancy there.

It might be redundant, but I've found that Bic lighters don't work particularly well in the winter. If you want to be a little safer, you might consider taking only two of the lighters and then also bringing some waterproof matches or some strike-anywhere matches in a waterproof container.

Yep, noted. I had mentioned earlier above (or on another page, at this point) that I was bringing matches as well. Didn't think to restate it in this post.

I cant hardly use a lighter to light stove with cold fingers.
A small firesteel can work easier to drop a shower of sparks onto stove sometimes.

Noted! Thanks!

T.S.Kobzol

12-11-2016, 20:51

StubbleJumper

12-11-2016, 21:05

Not sure if theygotbetter but when I bought waterproof matches...they sucked :) fwiw I never use lighters . I have two redundant match containers, never had issues with wetness or anything that would cause them not to work :) I use wooden matches from thebigcase you buy at a local grocery store

In the summer, I love Mini-Bic lighters. I usually carry two Mini-Bics stored in two different places in my pack to reduce the risk that both will get wet, or that one of them will run out of fuel. They are light, cheap, and effective. But, the winter is a different ball game. If you keep them warm and dry, they'll work fine...but if they get too cold or even a little bit wet, they are a PITA.

Venchka

12-11-2016, 23:32

Related match question:
I can't seem to find strike anywhere matches in semi-rural east Texas. Did the Nanny Police or the CDC or ATF outlaw them? All of the wooden matches I've found are safety matches. I had to cut a piece of the striker material from the box and put it in my match safe. Bummer!
Wayne

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RockDoc

12-12-2016, 00:59

Woah! I've been there in the winter .... deep snow and very very cold. Take snowshoes.
I hope you have a lot of experience doing this sort of thing...

Kerosene

12-12-2016, 12:29

It was -6F here in Minneapolis the morning after the snow system passed through this weekend on its way east. The perfect white snow and piles combined with sunshine and bracing temperature reminds me fondly of a Colorado ski town. This would be a great day to backpack if you're sufficiently prepared and the winds stay down. Looks like Killington will get these temps on Friday. Such an adventure! I wish you well.

rafe

12-12-2016, 12:52

This morning's mess in eastern MA makes me content to be indoors. Light snow overnight, changing to rain. 36F outside. Yecch. I'd rather have 20F with steady snow. But at least there's no wind.

Deadeye

12-18-2016, 12:46

Slo-go'en

12-18-2016, 13:23

It's mild today (12/18), 30's with rain changing to snow, temps dropping back to 5-10 degrees either side of zero tonight. It's going to be a cold start, but if the snow freezes solid, it might be the easiest walking conditions you can get. Good luck!

Or the worst. If the crust is not quite strong enough to support you and you keep breaking through post holing, even with snowshoes, that saps a lot of energy. The climb out of MA and into VT tomorrow should be interesting.

Texaco

12-19-2016, 13:29

Final post before zero-hour. We're at Friendly's in Greenfield filling up on warm calories before we start over the Mohawk Trail for the North Adams area.

A final thank you to everyone for the support and encouragement throughout this. Your honesty and advice and experiences were greatly appreciated!

I'll be posting on the blog and Instagram when possible.

www.2180miles.com / @2180miles on IG

If any of you are local to us while hiking and would like to volunteer a ride to town for resupplies and a cold beer, we welcome the offer!!

Happy trails,

Texaco

colorado_rob

12-19-2016, 13:46

I was just thinking of you guys... Good luck , we'll be following along!

Deadeye

12-21-2016, 13:35

It's pretty cool to be able to follow along with the Spot reports. This is the second hiker I've "followed" (not stalked!) this year; the first I met on the LT and tracked her until she completed the trail during the first snows of autumn. It may just change my view on electronics on the trail, especially if my wife can "follow" me.

Texaco

12-24-2016, 22:44

Merry Christmas Eve from the Bromley shelter gents! Chilly and windy but not too bad. 56 miles in so far. 14 yesterday over Stratton, resupply and 9mi today. Making it happen!

Glad you're enjoying Spot. It's pretty neat and one of my favorite gadgets on trail.

Happy holidays!

CELTIC BUCK

12-28-2016, 13:22

Best of Luck ; In Oct My Black Lab & I were just about where you guys are now. Keep on Trail & Get a shower & hot meal when you can. The Inn of the Long Trail was a great stop for us

colorado_rob

12-28-2016, 13:53

I'm lovin' it! Nearly 100 miles in, 9 days, doing OK it seems. Keep pluggin' along! Thanks for the cool blog.

Slo-go'en

12-29-2016, 12:44

I'm lovin' it! Nearly 100 miles in, 9 days, doing OK it seems. Keep pluggin' along! Thanks for the cool blog.

Now the real test starts. The trail is about to get much more difficult and the snow much, much deeper. They'll be on the fringe edge of today's Nor'easter, but will likely get some significant snow out of the deal and the northern half of the state has gotten much more snow then the southern end so far this winter.

mark schofield

12-29-2016, 15:55

Thanks for virtually taking me along. I've gone up and down the trail numerous times and your journey brings back memories. Looking forward to the next update.

lemon b

01-01-2017, 09:22

Wow. Good luck. It can be done.

bigcranky

01-01-2017, 09:45

http://www.2180miles.com/the-blog/far-better-to-dare-mighty-things

1azarus

01-01-2017, 15:36

...you guys/those guys made an early winter end to end more attractive as a goal, not less. thanks for that.

rafe

01-01-2017, 16:26

That was a serious challenge you took upon yourselves. You done good. Welcome back to the dark side.

Slo-go'en

01-01-2017, 19:04

CELTIC BUCK

01-01-2017, 19:33

They got off the Long Trail Alive and well . Better smart & alive

littlefoot33

01-01-2017, 19:49

mad props to both of you! Onwards and upwards

egilbe

01-01-2017, 19:57

Always another time and you have two weeks more experience than you did before. You can adjust your goals and expectations and give it another try. Good decision to bail before you took any more unnecessary risks with your health and life. Its a good decision.

Texaco

01-01-2017, 23:14

I'm lovin' it! Nearly 100 miles in, 9 days, doing OK it seems. Keep pluggin' along! Thanks for the cool blog.

Thanks for virtually taking me along. I've gone up and down the trail numerous times and your journey brings back memories. Looking forward to the next update.

...you guys/those guys made an early winter end to end more attractive as a goal, not less. thanks for that.

That was a serious challenge you took upon yourselves. You done good. Welcome back to the dark side.

mad props to both of you! Onwards and upwards

They got off the Long Trail Alive and well . Better smart & alive

Always another time and you have two weeks more experience than you did before. You can adjust your goals and expectations and give it another try. Good decision to bail before you took any more unnecessary risks with your health and life. Its a good decision.

Immense thank you to all of you for the support and encouragement. It was fun, it was a challenge, and it's a shame that it's over so early. If I was able to have it my way, we'd still be hiking. I'm immensely disappointed that we had to get off the trail, and rather frustrated with the situation. BUT! It will always be there and I will most certainly return to finish it.

Texaco

01-01-2017, 23:20

I'm not surprised from what you wrote about the hike through the Nor'easter. That took a toll. In retrospect, I'm sure you can see that if you had waited out the storm at the inn you might still be out there. Heading out into the storm wasn't the best move and it's a testament that you survived.

Even though the goal was not meet, still one heck of an effort.

Thanks for the recognition of the effort.

I wanted to reply to you individually to note that the storm had absolutely nothing to do with us getting off the trail. We were completely comfortable hiking into that storm from Killington, and although the darkness threw us a curve ball with the trail, we had 100% of the gear, generic wisdom, and hiking knowledge to wait it out in the tent. That single-wall structure paid for itself in that one night of use.

We got off the trail because my hiking partner had personal things going on that were a driving force in his mental frustration and desire to get off the trail and get home, on top of the mileage we were looking to attain. I would be out there right now in a shelter instead of my own bed if I could... home is not where I want to be. He planned on having the conversation about getting of the trail with me regardless of whether we were in that storm or in a shelter or in a sunflower field on a beautiful summer day.

I appreciate your recognition of our effort. I for one will be back out there finishing the trail within the next year. My hands were tied in this situation.

bigcranky

01-02-2017, 13:16

Immense thank you to all of you for the support and encouragement. It was fun, it was a challenge, and it's a shame that it's over so early. If I was able to have it my way, we'd still be hiking. I'm immensely disappointed that we had to get off the trail, and rather frustrated with the situation. BUT! It will always be there and I will most certainly return to finish it.

I followed your blog and thoroughly enjoyed it. Having done an e2e hike in July, and done a fair amount of winter hiking here in NC and VA, I cannot imagine combining the two :) Props to you both, and I hope you're able to get back to it someday.

pedxing

01-04-2017, 20:32

Great trip, great blog, great decision.

In the mountains during winter, the hikes you complete speak to your ability, preparation and determination. The ones you choose not to complete speak to your judgment.

I've heard too many stories about physically capable and well-equipped hikers who persevered too long on winter trips. The ability to turn around, or not go past the trail head is as important as the ability to move ahead.

Greenmountainguy

01-16-2017, 21:53

You do realize that -30 F is not unknown in the Killington region, right? Not common, but like dying on the LT, it happens. -15 to -20 F is not uncommon. Just east of Bennington are some rocky hills that would be inviting a broken leg if you cannot see the crevices when there is snow. If there is not snow, ice on the rocks is likely.
This hike is not challenging...it is,,, something rather more.