Anyone successfully thru-hike with their pup?

[blackdog]

I am planning my 2018 NOBO thru-hike (money is not something I have an abundance of so the year ahead is definitely necessary) and I will be bringing my dog with me. I am fully aware of people's feelings toward this and I have taken every aspect of bringing her along into co moderation. Teagan is a border collie/lab and she will be 3 in March. Trust me when I tell you that this dog is more capable of doing this than I am or most hikers on the trail. I know my dog better than anyone and this thread is not for anyone to try to tell me to leave my dog behind. She is coming. Not to be rude, but I've seen the negativity on this subject and I want no part of it. Staying at home is not an option for her and we will both be better off in this together. Anyone who has met my dog knows she is not just capable for this, she is EAGER for it. They also know that me and her being apart for this long is not possible. Let me just end that here and assure everyone she will be fine and she would much rather be in the woods with me than anywhere else on earth.
Now that we have that settled, has anyone successfully thru-hiked with their dog or completed a section? I would love to chat and get some advice or tips! She will be getting a GroundBird pack and eating The Honest Kitchen dehydrated dog food (Thrive to be exact) with supplements of Turbopump bars and Zukes power bones. I am giving her Dogs well Happy Hips bars daily at the moment and if i cant find something i like better, she will also be eating those on the trail. At the moment I am planning on putting a dental bone in every mail drop for her since she has immaculate teeth and I don't want the dehydrated food to change anything about that. I will hopefully also be bringing a nylabone with me if it works out with the weight of everything so that she has something to chew on when we are in camp. I haven't decided on anything else yet such as her sleeping pad, jacket/coat (we will be starting either the last week of February or first week of March), bowl, etc. She already has a Lyme Disease vaccination since we live on 10 acres in New England so that is already something we deal with daily and I am well versed in tick-checking. Isn't that lovely, lol.
She is extremely loyal and obedient to me and has excellent recall off leash. My only concern is that she is a Barker. I just want to share as much about what we are planning to see if anyone has any input. :)
I apologize for any errors, I'm typing this from my phone. Is anyone else planning a 2018 NOBO?

[blackdog]

I'm already noticing plenty of typing errors, my apologies! No idea how to edit a post but I'll try to figure it out.

[egilbe]

become a paying member and you can edit your posts. Click the Donate button at the top of the forum.

[Dogwood]

May I respectfully inquire what you will do if your pup meets with needing financially costly veterinary attention? I ask because you said money is tight.

And, do you plan on continuing the hike without your pup if your pup requires being taken off the hike? I ask because you said your pup staying at home is not an option. You have to consider that there is a possibility your pup may not be up for a 2200 mile hike.

I also respectfully inquire how do you plan on addressing areas where non service dogs are not allowed?

Respectfully, let's keep in mind that it is common for human AT thru-hiker wannabes to assume they are capable and display eagerness. This does not negate the fact that AT thru-hiker wannabes don't complete their intended thru-hikes in 8 out of 10 cases.

[RockDoc]

Why not. This fellow thru hiked with a kitten.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=56877&catid=member&imageuser=12038


http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/0/3/8/dscn2400.jpg

[Uncle Joe]

You have a year to work on her barking. I'd definitely do that.

[illabelle]

I have an elderly Border collie. I've never taken him to The Trail because he's not trained and he'd run off. But we are fortunate to have a little acreage, enough for a one-mile trail that wanders in and out of the woods and across the open areas and back and forth across the hillside. He LOVES hiking our trail with me. If there was any breed that could do a thru-hike, I'd bet on a BC. Those pups are full of energy. Even now (he's at least 10 yo) he feels it is necessary to run constantly when I mow. That could be 30 or 40 minutes, exhausting for anybody.
Good luck with your hike!

[orthofingers]

Border collies are very smart dogs that love to run all day. I have no doubt your dog could do it. Have you figured out paw protectors if her paws start to show signs of wear? Maybe try some on your daily walks to see if she'll tolerate them. If she's a barker, you might want to plan on not sleeping in shelters much. (Not a bad idea anyway IMO due to the rodents). You might get some negativity from others trying to sleep if she barks. Also, if she tries to "herd" everything, make sure you can control her if/when you come across a rattlesnake.

i envy you. My 12 year old lab wouldn't make it and my 6 year old Stafordshire mix would be too out of control.

[blackdog]

May I respectfully inquire what you will do if your pup meets with needing financially costly veterinary attention? I ask because you said money is tight.

And, do you plan on continuing the hike without your pup if your pup requires being taken off the hike? I ask because you said your pup staying at home is not an option. You have to consider that there is a possibility your pup may not be up for a 2200 mile hike.

I also respectfully inquire how do you plan on addressing areas where non service dogs are not allowed?

Respectfully, let's keep in mind that it is common for human AT thru-hiker wannabes to assume they are capable and display eagerness. This does not negate the fact that AT thru-hiker wannabes don't complete their intended thru-hikes in 8 out of 10 cases.

I should have clarified that the money issue is the fact that I am saving MUCH extra for this trip specifically for any unforseen issues with the dog specifically. :) She is very sure-footed outside and on uneven terrain she excels but if she does run into an accident or illness we will be prepared. I am also prepared to send her home if need be and my father is the one who will be sending out my mail drops and is happy to have her if that's the case. The areas where dogs are not allowed is something I'm very aware of and I plan on boarding her in those areas until I finish hiking through them. I won't make any preparations for that until closer to our start since the boarding opportunities change so often.
Trust me, if there is a dog that can do this it is her haha. She is the perfect combination of her breeds. If I had a bulldog or a dachshund they wouldnt be coming. I am very aware of her capabilities and the fact that people ignore their dogs needs and bring them anyway. If it comes to it she will go home without me but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that and me and my family and friends have a good feeling it won't! ��

[blackdog]

I have an elderly Border collie. I've never taken him to The Trail because he's not trained and he'd run off. But we are fortunate to have a little acreage, enough for a one-mile trail that wanders in and out of the woods and across the open areas and back and forth across the hillside. He LOVES hiking our trail with me. If there was any breed that could do a thru-hike, I'd bet on a BC. Those pups are full of energy. Even now (he's at least 10 yo) he feels it is necessary to run constantly when I mow. That could be 30 or 40 minutes, exhausting for anybody.
Good luck with your hike!

Thank you! She definitely has endless energy but is amazing at settling down when we aren't being active. She has npne of the negative border collie attributes but that has a little something to do with me getting her young and putting them to a stop. We are on a farm so she has had the perfect place to practice manners and self control. I brought her to the farmers markets I worked when she was a puppy to socialize her and she LOVES seeing kids but the barking was something I couldn't stop. I am looking into it now so that it won't be an issue on the trail. I hope my girl is as active as yours when she's that age!

[DuneElliot]

You have one of the best cross-breeds to be doing this with. I am taking my BCs on the Colorado Trail thru-hike next year, at least one and maybe both (one will be 7 and the other 9). Border collies and BC-crosses are definitely suited for the demands of a thru-hike, better than us I suspect. Your dog sounds like mine...calm when needed and boundless energy the rest of the time. Mine don't bark though and worked on cattle ranches with me for several years so I know how they are off-leash 100% of the time.

While the CT isn't the AT I can definitely report back to you on how things went with my dogs on a thru-hike. I am planning on slightly lower mileage days than most due to the dogs carrying packs and the extra water I will have to carry in some places. Water won't be as much of an issue on the AT I assume.

I have never noticed an issue with my dogs' paws due to the excessive hair they have for protection between the toes, but I expect that on a rockier trail it might be a concern. I don't foresee an issue on the Colorado Trail for us, but it might be something to look into for your pup with the rockiest aspects of the AT.

It took my dogs a couple of hikes to get used to the packs. My male bucked like a horse the first time he had to wear his with some weight, but got used to it very quickly. My female glared at me like I was killing her, but now she sees it and gets very excited because she knows what it means. Neither carries more than 4-5 days of food at the most.

I would love to go the FD route on the CT but the cost of the food is prohibitive for me. I will stick with their current dry food with lots of mail drops, or switch them to a high-calorie food such as they use for racing huskies/sled dogs.

If you want to read about my 7 day thru-hike of the Solitude Loop Trail with my dog(s), just to give you an idea, you can find it here (https://idlewildandpawprints.wordpress.com/2016/08/15/backpacking-the-solitude-loop-trail/). I'm always happy to connect with other BC owners

[blackdog]

Border collies are very smart dogs that love to run all day. I have no doubt your dog could do it. Have you figured out paw protectors if her paws start to show signs of wear? Maybe try some on your daily walks to see if she'll tolerate them. If she's a barker, you might want to plan on not sleeping in shelters much. (Not a bad idea anyway IMO due to the rodents). You might get some negativity from others trying to sleep if she barks. Also, if she tries to "herd" everything, make sure you can control her if/when you come across a rattlesnake.

i envy you. My 12 year old lab wouldn't make it and my 6 year old Stafordshire mix would be too out of control.

The boots are something I initially didnt think much of until since her pads compared to my boxer are in fantastic shape but after thinking about sharp rocks and water crossings I have looked into it a bit. There is a pair I've seen on a blog somewhere that look very lightweight and the poster used them with their border collie so I am planning on picking up a pair and practicing with them a bit. I'm actually planning on ordering her pack next month as silly as it sounds but I want her to be very familiar with it before our start. I also want to know if it has any downfalls. I am seriously not worried about my gear as much as hers haha.
As far as shelters go I am steering clear and I would be doing the same if I was alone. Every bone in my body does not allow me to sleep in such close proximity to strangers lol. I feel much more comfortable in a tent. I also respect other peoples fear of dogs and if I needed to get in a shelter due to a storm I would ask if its alright to bring in a wet dog. Im prepared for no lol. She also does not herd or nip ankles. I raised her with my dairy goats and free range birds so she is very respectful of animals. She does however love to kill rats and mice so maybe she will win people over by cleaning up a shelter lol.
Thank you, I'm definitely very grateful that I am able to do this with my best friend and I recognize that most dogs are not up to it so hopefully she can make some friends and help them feel a little better about leaving their dogs home!

[Starchild]

The AT thru hike is a traveling community, not a lone journey in the woods. Work on her barking (also herding if she tends to do that) would be a good step of making you both a welcome member of the trail community, show by example what a responsible dog owner does and that with how the partnership of dog/dog owner can be a good member of this community.

Remember that your trip with the dog will be seen by many hikers. As such your hike will be representing all dogs on trail and leave a lasting impression one way or another.


You also say in a way this is her hike too. Just remember that you are responsible for her and must make wise decisions on trail on her behalf. It is far too easy to push a dog while one trail and cause lasting problems, so be every attentive to your dogs condition and be prepared to take it down a notch or two if you start to see signs of some small problems before they become large, lifelong ones. (many thru hikers do experience some sort of long term issues due to their thru).

Finally get her on trail for some training hikes and backpacks, find out what works and what doesn't, be patient.

Happy trails

[blackdog]

You have one of the best cross-breeds to be doing this with. I am taking my BCs on the Colorado Trail thru-hike next year, at least one and maybe both (one will be 7 and the other 9). Border collies and BC-crosses are definitely suited for the demands of a thru-hike, better than us I suspect. Your dog sounds like mine...calm when needed and boundless energy the rest of the time. Mine don't bark though and worked on cattle ranches with me for several years so I know how they are off-leash 100% of the time.

While the CT isn't the AT I can definitely report back to you on how things went with my dogs on a thru-hike. I am planning on slightly lower mileage days than most due to the dogs carrying packs and the extra water I will have to carry in some places. Water won't be as much of an issue on the AT I assume.

I have never noticed an issue with my dogs' paws due to the excessive hair they have for protection between the toes, but I expect that on a rockier trail it might be a concern. I don't foresee an issue on the Colorado Trail for us, but it might be something to look into for your pup with the rockiest aspects of the AT.

It took my dogs a couple of hikes to get used to the packs. My male bucked like a horse the first time he had to wear his with some weight, but got used to it very quickly. My female glared at me like I was killing her, but now she sees it and gets very excited because she knows what it means. Neither carries more than 4-5 days of food at the most.

I would love to go the FD route on the CT but the cost of the food is prohibitive for me. I will stick with their current dry food with lots of mail drops, or switch them to a high-calorie food such as they use for racing huskies/sled dogs.

If you want to read about my 7 day thru-hike of the Solitude Loop Trail with my dog(s), just to give you an idea, you can find it here (https://idlewildandpawprints.wordpress.com/2016/08/15/backpacking-the-solitude-loop-trail/). I'm always happy to connect with other BC owners

Thanks, I will definitely check out your link! I also trained Teagan to be off leash before anything else and I think that honestly makes all the difference with a dog. Much easier said than done with some dogs but it only makes sense to a border collie. She is protective of me so much so that the day I brought her home at about 14 weeks, she was protecting me from my boxer and wouldnt let him touch me! My family will definitely be sleeping better knowing that she will be with me.
I think ill have the same reaction to the pack as your female. She is smart as a whip and I'm sure she will recognize that a slightly awkward pack is fair trade for a lot of fun and walking. I will be carrying some of her gear but the dehydrated food should be a huge help when it comes to pack weight. A 10 lb box is equivalent to 40 lbs of food. And the Thrive food from The Honest Kitchen has excellent calories. I will be ordering some booties when I order her pack and then we will see how this all works out. Im ordering her a GroundBird pack and they are custom made to each dog and the packs are specifically for thru-hiking dogs so im excited to say the least.
The highest calorie dry food I could find was Orijen regional red but my god that price point was insane.

[blackdog]

The AT thru hike is a traveling community, not a lone journey in the woods. Work on her barking (also herding if she tends to do that) would be a good step of making you both a welcome member of the trail community, show by example what a responsible dog owner does and that with how the partnership of dog/dog owner can be a good member of this community.

Remember that your trip with the dog will be seen by many hikers. As such your hike will be representing all dogs on trail and leave a lasting impression one way or another.


You also say in a way this is her hike too. Just remember that you are responsible for her and must make wise decisions on trail on her behalf. It is far too easy to push a dog while one trail and cause lasting problems, so be every attentive to your dogs condition and be prepared to take it down a notch or two if you start to see signs of some small problems before they become large, lifelong ones. (many thru hikers do experience some sort of long term issues due to their thru).

Finally get her on trail for some training hikes and backpacks, find out what works and what doesn't, be patient.

Happy trails

Thank you for gentle feedback, I definitely dont see the hostility that often comes hand in hand with this topic showing up in this thread.
I really appreciate all points of view and I want our hike to be as positive as possible. I also dont want to encourage people to bring dogs on the trail who are not fit for it so I hope to be somewhat vocal about our hike. She does not herd or nip heels and is very sensitive to my voice which gives her excellent recall off leash. She will most likely be off leash most of the time but I will have a leash handy for when we come upon other people or dogs and to keep her with me in camp in case someone doesnt care for dogs. We dont want to put a damper on anyones hike.
My concern is her bark bothering other people so I am trying to talk to trainers and find out how to curb that. In all honesty she is completely quiet and obedient when she has a tennis ball so if it comes down to it, I will just keep one in my hip belt, pull it out and voila a very distracted dog who could not care less if an elephant walked by. She is surprisingly adaptable so I see her getting used to seeing strangers every day and settling down but I do realize that it will be an issue for other hikers.
We hike as often as we can and I would like to say that I can tell when she is in pain or uncomfortable. Most of the time she will let me know if she needs something but I also watch her like a mother watches her newborn.


Also, a plus for anyone dreading running into us in 2018, she will not steal your food! :)
Ive seen that is a problem with dogs on the trail but I am positive this is due to people not properly feeding their hiking dogs. She also has never stolen food in her life, even with a plate directly on the floor she will wait for me to offer. We have high hopes for this hike so hopefully people.will forgive if she initially gives them a bark on the trail! I will be offering the tennis ball to anyone that wants to be friends with her and after that I promise she will never bark at them again lol.

[blackdog]

372053720637207
For anyone curious what a border collie/lab looks like, here you are! And no, she doesnt have anything else in her. Her parents were a border collie and black lab. Somehow she was blessed with this wicked hair-do. The first was taken a few days ago and the other two are pretty old.

[peakbagger]

Sounds like you are going to take your dog along no matter what. Folks have successfully thru hiked with a dog. Many have started with their dog and for many reasons had to modify their hike or send the dog home but its obvious that you are working on the assumption that you are not one of them. A well trained border collie does appear to be a good fit. Obviously there are folks who have bad interactions with dogs and in general fear dogs, they have a right to hike also and that's where the training part comes in. IMHO a well trained hiking dog should be focused on the owner, somewhat aloof/indifferent to other people and wildlife in the area. The dog can be friendly to other folks but only when the owner wants it to happen. A hiker heading down the trail in the opposite direction should be able to walk right past with no interaction with the dog. The dog should generally be nearby the owner, no cruising ahead several minutes in advance of the owner. The standard sign of a badly trained dog is when the owner has to ask other folks to tolerate actions of the dog. I hear it often with poorly trained dogs where the owner has to apologize in advance or warn others, usually the refrain is "don't worry he's friendly" or "he normally doesn't do that". Barking in general can really be annoying to others and wildlife.

I strongly suggest tenting or hammocking with your dog. Feel free to use tenting areas adjacent to shelters but bringing or allowing a dog into a shelter is generally not regarded well by others. Some dog owners use the tactic of asking if anyone in the shelter objects to having a dog in the shelter, this is not a great idea as many people do object but keep quiet about it. Unfortunately one or two experiences of a muddy wet dog running into a shelter over other folks belongings is enough to make most hikers feel that the dog is best elsewhere.

The other observation is the dog should be trained to only eat out of a specific food bowl. No scrounging or begging. Ideally if someone throws some food in front of the dog, the dog shouldn't touch it until the owner gives it a cue that's its okay. This has many purposes but one of them is to keep the dog alive, poisoned baits are occasionally used by landowners to control predators and if your dog gets into one its likely you wont make it to a vet in time.

One White mountain/Maine specific issue is abrasion of the dogs pads on rocks. Unlike much of the trail which is wooded and has soil underfoot, the whites and much of Maine has long above treeline stretches, the rock can be abrasive and the dog has to hike for miles by jumping from rock to rock along with frequent scrambling up and down rocks. The dog may be in excellent physical condition but their pads take a beating as effectively they are rubbing their pads on course sandpaper. There are many cases every year where dogs that hike everywhere and in excellent physical condition end up being carried down or have to be forced down a side trail and have to recover for several days when their pads wear thin. Some folks train their dogs to use booties some dogs tolerate them but many will not. Even those whose dogs tolerate booties will carry multiple spare sets. Generally once into Western Maine past the Mahoosucs the terrain is mixed enough that its less of an issue. Many dog owners that hike the whites year round limit their dogs from doing long above treeline sections until there is consistent snow on the ground.

The other issue it fake service dogs, some folks use it as a means of justifying taking their dogs into areas where they are banned. Be aware Maine and NH and perhaps other states have passed "fraudulent representation laws" and the land managers in those areas are quite aware on how to challenge potential false service dogs. Here is a list of state laws for reference https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-state-assistance-animal-laws. These laws weren't created in a vacuum they were created as some folks were abusing the system. Unlike the airlines, emotional support animals are generally excluded from the rights of service animals

Ultimately its comes down to you have decided to bring your dog with you and you have the right to "hike your own hike" until your hike interferes with other folks to hike your their own hike. They didn't decide to hike with a dog and its unreasonable to expect that they need to change their hike to accommodate yours

[DuneElliot]

Thank you for gentle feedback, I definitely dont see the hostility that often comes hand in hand with this topic showing up in this thread.
I really appreciate all points of view and I want our hike to be as positive as possible. I also dont want to encourage people to bring dogs on the trail who are not fit for it so I hope to be somewhat vocal about our hike. She does not herd or nip heels and is very sensitive to my voice which gives her excellent recall off leash. She will most likely be off leash most of the time but I will have a leash handy for when we come upon other people or dogs and to keep her with me in camp in case someone doesnt care for dogs. We dont want to put a damper on anyones hike.
My concern is her bark bothering other people so I am trying to talk to trainers and find out how to curb that. In all honesty she is completely quiet and obedient when she has a tennis ball so if it comes down to it, I will just keep one in my hip belt, pull it out and voila a very distracted dog who could not care less if an elephant walked by. She is surprisingly adaptable so I see her getting used to seeing strangers every day and settling down but I do realize that it will be an issue for other hikers.
We hike as often as we can and I would like to say that I can tell when she is in pain or uncomfortable. Most of the time she will let me know if she needs something but I also watch her like a mother watches her newborn.


Also, a plus for anyone dreading running into us in 2018, she will not steal your food! :)
Ive seen that is a problem with dogs on the trail but I am positive this is due to people not properly feeding their hiking dogs. She also has never stolen food in her life, even with a plate directly on the floor she will wait for me to offer. We have high hopes for this hike so hopefully people.will forgive if she initially gives them a bark on the trail! I will be offering the tennis ball to anyone that wants to be friends with her and after that I promise she will never bark at them again lol.

My dogs are also trained to wait on food and never beg or steal food. They get a lot of compliments on the trail and are always off-leash, and I am always thanked for stepping off the trail and keeping them under complete control (I put them in a down-stay) when we meet others...sadly I can't say that for other owners and dogs who I have met on the trail and I have occasionally had to step in front of my dog(s) to keep another dog away from them that I felt was acting aggressively.

I think being considerate owners and having dogs under complete and total control is vital to be an advocate of dogs on the trail. I also find that even though when we hike and they don't have packs they love to run and explore but when they have packs we are like a trail train...one dog in front as the engine, me in the middle, and one dog as the caboose and they don't care much for exploring at that point. I didn't train them that way, they fell into it naturally.

[Starchild]

Upon reading a above post, I do have to agree that many people will not say outright they would rather not have a dog in the shelter. Though the image of responsible dog ownership on trail will usually take a hit, less so if you ask, but a hit none the less if people are being polite to the point of not letting you know - and if so that does take away from their enjoyment of the trail, something to consider.


Also, I don't know you or your dog, your postings however do tend to have me ask are you able to make a objective assessment as to your dog's behavior. It is common to get use to small issues and eventually not notice them. I would suggest doing a reality check in that ask your friends, and others you encounter for a honest objective assessment of your dog's behavior around other people.

[blackdog]

Upon reading a above post, I do have to agree that many people will not say outright they would rather not have a dog in the shelter. Though the image of responsible dog ownership on trail will usually take a hit, less so if you ask, but a hit none the less if people are being polite to the point of not letting you know - and if so that does take away from their enjoyment of the trail, something to consider.


Also, I don't know you or your dog, your postings however do tend to have me ask are you able to make a objective assessment as to your dog's behavior. It is common to get use to small issues and eventually not notice them. I would suggest doing a reality check in that ask your friends, and others you encounter for a honest objective assessment of your dog's behavior around other people.

Thank you for asking that! I am aware that my dog is not perfect. I have been raised with bad dogs and I actually have a very noticeable scare on my face due to that fact. I do love my dog more than anything and I did what I could to train and socialize her at a young age so I am proud of her. I also know her faults.
She does not like to be grabbed or manhandled by strangers and she is vocal in general. If I am sleeping (she always sleeps with me) and someone comes near me she will do a low growl until they leave. Her protectiveness of me is a negative and a positive but again, won't be an issue unless someone tries to harm me. If I could change whatever I wanted about her to make her perfect, it would only be her barking. I do not like other peoples dogs to behave badly so I respect that and I have trained her accordingly. I want to make it clear that she is not aggressive to the people on this thread but I understand that in person, that.fact is irrelevant when a dog barks at you. Like I said, the tennis ball is no joke. It is her god. She has been off leash in very public settings with cars, dogs, kids, adults and has ignored all of them because the ball is present. I will be using that and I am also in the process of training her to walk in crowds silently and commands for sitting and waiting while people cross on trail. I want her to be a positive experience for other hikers so I certainly dont want to hold her on a pedestal or ignore other peoples feelings.
I also honest have no desire to sleep in shelters. I will be using a tent and I am expecting to stay in it almost every night, including leaving town after resupply and returning to the trail to sleep. I understand that the trail is not isolated and that is fine with me but I will never be interested in sleeping near strangers without the barrier of a tent lol. We've camped in rain before and im sure we will be doing it again. :)

[Henry8]

My advise:
1. Learn to read your dog.
2. Learn to read people around your dog.
3. Take your dog.

[orthofingers]

The other thing you might consider is a later start date if that fits with your schedule. A late February, early March start means you may see significant snow especially in the Smokies. Hiking with your dog (I know, you can't bring the dog along in the GSMNP) may complicate your flexibility in getting off trail and staying in hostels/hotels/motels and will also add considerably to your expenses. I didn't say it was impossible, just that it complicates things a bit. While a late March, early April start certainly does not guarantee you perfect hiking weather, it still allows plenty of time to get to Katahdin especially considering that Teagan may set a fast pace. Ha ha. (I was going to say a "blistering" pace but I didn't want to bring that "B" word into the discussion.)

[Puddlefish]

If your dog growls and protects you, the simple solution is to hike with a leash. In my 600 mile section, I probably spent a total of one hour being held up by snarling snapping barking overly protective dogs (way out in front of their owners) who wouldn't let me pass on the trail until the owner caught up a few minutes later. Every single one of them did the "he's harmless, he loves people, and they were just oblivious.

Of all the dogs I met on the trail, a border collie and an Australian cattle dog were the only pair that had energy at the end of the day. Sadly, the border collie mix was kind of stupid, barky and aggressive. Most dogs looked beat and unhappy, one dog didn't seem to want to return to it's owner when the kennel people dropped it off after the Smokies.

I enjoyed seeing the well behaved dogs on the trail. Exactly one that unleashed was well behaved. I saw a bunch of semi leashed dogs that were awesome dogs as well. They were on leashes around other people and other dogs.

HYOH, just don't make other people hike your hike.

[Sandy of PA]

Please make yourself aware of the various leash laws in the states and parks you will pass through. For examples, SNP does not permit any dog off leash at any time day or night on trail or in camp. Pennsylvania has a state leash law, and dogs are not permitted off leash in the state game lands(much of the trail), except hunting dogs during hunting and dog training seasons.

[blackdog]

I cant imagine letting her walk ahead of me. I wouldnt allow that anywhere let alone somewhere like the trail. That sounds irresponsible. Off leash, Teagan stays only a few feet away from me and after a while she falls back next to me. No snapping or anything, she literally barks and wags her tail. I dont understand her logic lol. Someone who knows dogs would see her and know that but other people wouldnt appreciate it. I think this is the only thing we have to work on. Her protectiveness is only when someone seems threatening and to be honest, there have been a few times that I appreciated it because I can also get an idea of a creep. Teagan will be leashed around other people and dogs just as a courtesy and also because I dont trust.other dogs. I plan to have her leashed completely in the beginning until she gets a little more understanding of situation. As someone who has been bit more than once, I want to make sure no one is fearful on their hike.

[blackdog]

Please make yourself aware of the various leash laws in the states and parks you will pass through. For examples, SNP does not permit any dog off leash at any time day or night on trail or in camp. Pennsylvania has a state leash law, and dogs are not permitted off leash in the state game lands(much of the trail), except hunting dogs during hunting and dog training seasons.

Thank you, I have taken different laws into consideration and before we leave I will have a list of each area where she will need to be leashed and where she will need to go off trail.

[Sarcasm the elf]

First off :welcome

Since you mentioned negative Internet comments in your opening post, I can tell you that most of that negativity is limited to the internet. How actual people on the trail feel about your dog will really depend on you and your dog.

I have been section hiking with dogs for years and In my experience, most people are generally happy to encounter a dog as long as it is:

- Under control
- Well behaved
- Well cared for
- Happy

As others have mentioned, a leash will prevent about 95% of the common problems that hikers complain about when encountering dogs, but I also understand how much of a pain they are to use. My current dog is always leashed on the A.T. because that's what she needs. On the other hand My buddy's border collie that I often hike with is bombproof off leash. When hiking with my buddy's dog, what we have found works best is to let him hike close to us while we're moving, but then to immediately leash him and step off trail when we encounter passing hikers. This lets the dog hike more freely, but also ensures he doesn't bother anyone. We keep him on leash 100% of the time when we are in a shelter area or shared camping spot, we keep him away from anyone who is cooking or eating and always tent when we have a dog with us. He is also leashed a good distance before any road crossing to prevent any risk from cars or people. This is what I would recommend doing at minimum even if your dog is 100% trustworthy off leash.

Several other people have already commented on concerns about a dog's health on long distance trips, please take this to heart. If you hike with a dog, then it becomes the dog's hike. If the dog is tired or not feeling well do not push them, this often means stopping early or taking days off. Many people don't realize that over long distances humans can actually far outhike dogs, we are built to be long distance animals and need to take this into account when hiking with a dog. Dogs also have trouble with the summer heat, so just take that into account later in your hike. I personally am a little wary of the idea of thru hiking with a dog just because the dogs I have met over they years that have made it as far as my home state of Connecticut very often look exhausted, weary, and in pain. I don't say that to be negative, but to reinforce that it is the owner's job of knowing their animal and preventing this from happening.

One other thing that you may not have thought of is that many hikers do love dogs and will often want to pet, play with, feed, and use your dog as a surrogate pet (often without asking). So do be prepared for that. A friendly, well behaved dog is often very popular with other hikers.

[Dogwood]

Where I see potential concerns with your mixed breed gal:

Is the energy venting and analytical thinking intelligence of both Border Collies and labs. I've seen Border Collies that look like they are trying to work out a Quantum Physics problem. Without enough stimulation to vent the highly active high energy of a Border Collie she might resort to chewing on things. Combined with the retriever gun dog trait of the lab that could be an issue. I'd have a chew toy for her. Be sensitive to her energy venting working dog retrieving instincts. STOP, at open areas and play catch, with something like a dog frisbee or fetch and retrieve with her to help vent energy and build constructive behavior slipping in obedient training as you do it. If you can do it in changing unfamiliar small number crowds letting her know you don't need to be harshly protective all the better. It might help reduce the barking. Assure her you're safe. Acknowledge her quickly to reduce the barking.

I'd be diligent around water with this mix as the chocolate and black pure breed labs I've had love the water. Maybe, not so embracing by others when a free roaming dog enters, plays around, or suddenly drops a chocolate cookie or squirt near or in the only water source! That pisses people off! Avoid it! It's no different than a human bathing or splashing in or urinating or defecating in or too near a water source. ALWAYS leash your dog around drinking water sources which should be defined as ANY water source. ALL water is a potential drinking water source for humans on the AT! Bring the water to the dog NOT the dog to the water! If you're near a large river like the James consider letting her splash around some considerable distance away from the trail. I'm yet to see any dog effectively trained to consciously avoid contaminating water sources of their own accord. Therefore it is up to the dog owner to protect the water from being contaminated by their dog! Water is also a place where wildlife may congregate which is often a common location for unruly or improperly trained or constrained dogs to harass or run after wildlife. Be considerate to wildlife and those who wish to experience wildlife rather than an unleashed unruly free roaming dog chasing away wildlife. It can piss people off.

Border Collies allowed to play out their roaming/unleashed natural instincts in open private expanses, like on a farm, where they are aware of their boundaries is one thing. It's another thing when that same behavior is allowed to be played out in wilderness areas or forest or near private land. If a dog is disobedient to commands not to chase/halt or disrupt wildlife or doesn't closely heel it doesn't belong on the trail, needs to be on leash always(which can suck if you're thru-hiking! which is why many dog owners still let there animals roam freely), or the owner needs to make some effective behavioral changes to the dog.

All the dogs I bring on hikes have been trained to be obedient to heel or hold...QUIETLY without undue motion or activity. That's a tough proposition for some dogs and breeds. And, it can be challenging to train these behaviors once immersed in AT trail environments and in typical thru-hiker mindsets.

I have no doubt that your mixes enable her to physically do the hike providing you are sensitive to not only your own responsibilities and needs but also hers. With everything going on to you on a LD backpacking experience it's easy to forget and to start assuming and imposing supposedly a human or a human and dog hike in a bubble. It takes a lot of commitment and diligence for just a human to thru-hike the AT. Adding the responsibilities of a thru-hiking dog compounds the considerations, needs, and responsibilities. Remember, it's not just you that has to adapt to trail life and further adapting to LD trail life as you make your way up the trail but your dog has to do it too! Dog owners sometimes take for granted assuming a dog should be able to do this.

Also consider just as you will be changing and regularly adapting and readapting on an AT thru-hike as you evolve your dog is going through the same thing. This means you not only have the responsibility of effectively dealing with your own changing internal and external landscape but the dogs. This is a journey for the both of you not a destination where some how you arrive and that's it. Observe. Consider. Keep what's working. Re-evaluate. Change or drop what isn't working. Reset. Adapt, Assimilate. Change. Repeat. Now you're doing it with a dog. This isn't negativity towards what you're planning. It's about having the awareness so you and your dog are better able to succeed at having an enjoyable hike while being considerate of a wider impact. You seem like you're well on your way to achieving this success. ;)

If she is as protective as you say it might be best you camp away from others or not in lean-tos or at least initially until she recognizes your humanly encounters don't require protection by harshly intervening. Despite many dog owners knowing this they still ignore it imposing their dog on others at lean-tos and at multi site larger campsites because the dog owner is addicted to these areas. Avoid this! Dogs accustomed to and demonstrating good social behavior occasionally in larger crowds like at farmers markets is a different dynamic possibly resulting in different behavior when every day you encounter 150-300 new people with new different behaviors of their own, new locations, and you're now with her 24/7 rather than being occasionally apart. Unless you have an exceptionally obedient and close heeling dog leashing may be needed more often especially as you enter into large group areas like at lean tos.

Anticipate your dog needing to do her duty. Just as humans don't camp or like human excrement and conditions at some privies or behind the lean to the same goes true for dogs. Humans don't like to see or smell dog shart as much as they don't like to see and smell human shart. Plan for picking up after your dog disposing of her waste just as diligently as you should with your own. Take waste and her well off trail just as you should for yourself. Good hygiene of dogs should be viewed just as import as good human hygiene. Dogs are going to need some help from their dog owners in this area.

Your dog is a living sanctioned being. Her care and well being is more important than that crap on your back. Her well being is more important than your desire to do an AT thru-hike with her. Listen to her. She'll tell ya what's up.

One last thing. If you want to avoid the creeps, the unusual, perhaps the AT isn't the trail for you.:D

[H I T C H]

Here is a good post that describes AT hiking with a dog and outlines the areas where they are not allowed.

http://appalachiantrials.com/hiking-with-a-dog-part-2/

I used to hike with my dogs but not on the AT.

I think that it is good advise to leash them whenever you encounter other hikers at first. This is just as much for the dog's safety as other hikers.

I would also let your vet know of your plans. There may be specific meds/equipment that they suggest for you.

I am wondering if you plan on having a pack for the dog. I apologize if that has been asked/answered already.

Lastly, a tidbit I picked up hiking with my dogs. They used to have metal chain collars. When I started hiking with them I swapped them out for nylon collars. The clink of the metal chain just did not sound right outside on the trail. :)

Enjoy your hike !

Hitch

[Dogwood]

"I think that it is good advise to leash them whenever you encounter other hikers at first. This is just as much for the dog's safety as other hikers."

This is great advise for a great many dog owners and dogs. Many people mentally agree to this but I ask in practice as a AT thru hiker thru-hiking during typical high use thru-hiking season how practical is this?... off the leash, on the leash, back off the leash, etc.? :rolleyes:

[Water Rat]

One White mountain/Maine specific issue is abrasion of the dogs pads on rocks. Unlike much of the trail which is wooded and has soil underfoot, the whites and much of Maine has long above treeline stretches, the rock can be abrasive and the dog has to hike for miles by jumping from rock to rock along with frequent scrambling up and down rocks. The dog may be in excellent physical condition but their pads take a beating as effectively they are rubbing their pads on course sandpaper. There are many cases every year where dogs that hike everywhere and in excellent physical condition end up being carried down or have to be forced down a side trail and have to recover for several days when their pads wear thin. Some folks train their dogs to use booties some dogs tolerate them but many will not. Even those whose dogs tolerate booties will carry multiple spare sets. Generally once into Western Maine past the Mahoosucs the terrain is mixed enough that its less of an issue. Many dog owners that hike the whites year round limit their dogs from doing long above treeline sections until there is consistent snow on the ground.

^^
This is so very true and so very important. I have two dogs who are black lab/golden mix. They are 5.5 yrs and have grown up regularly hiking Maine and NH trails. They are awesome trail dogs, but the one thing I could never get them to do was wear the booties. My dogs definitely prefer to feel the ground beneath their feet.

Though their paw pads are accustomed to the brutal rocks, stuff does happen. No matter how diligent you are, there are days when paw pads can be rubbed raw. The trick is to take as many preventative measures as possible, and be diligent in checking feet during breaks. As my dogs will not wear booties, I do treat their paw pads with Musher's Wax. That does offer a thin layer of protection, as well as prevention against cracking paw pads.

In addition, I also always carry 2 (1 for each dog) cotton crew socks, some antibiotic ointment, some gauze pads and a little gauze when I hike with my dogs. It doesn't weigh much and has come in handy when there has been a cut dog paw during a hike. Just doctor the foot and throw the sock on (with Duct tape to hold it) and the pooch can hike out on its own. My dogs will not wear the booties, but they have tolerated the sock bandage on hikes. The sooner you catch paw issues, the sooner they heal.

[AfterParty]

I recommend high protein food for something like this. I have had pointing dogs my whole life they are made to run and when hunting season comes around I always up their protein when they will be working hard. 10+ miles a day walking is not easy on a dog. And they will benefit from a high protein food guessing it would be higher in calories as well. There are some places along the trail that you will have to help your dog. I would try to see a couple vets along the way as well just to be sure everything's a OK. I have no issues with dogs but I would say you really need to break the barking habit.

[saltysack]

I hike with my jrt frequently on the southern AT and recently took him to Colorado to do the collegiate loop. Be prepared....when you bring the dog it's now his hike......I've never had any issues doing higher mpd until the last trip to Co. I had to carry him out on the fourth day as he started limping. luckily he's only 20lbs. I don't think you'll need booties but do recommend mushers secret. My pups paws are conditioned on asphalt and never had any issues on trail with his pads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Slo-go'en]

Nothing worse then a barking dog. If he barks when seeing someone that can be perceived as aggressive behavior and if he barks at any unknown sound during the night, that is just plain annoying. Your not going to make friends that way.

Well, you got just over a year to work on that problem and to think about if this really is a good idea. Sounds like you have some camping experience with the dog, do plenty of it next summer. Do at least a week long trip. That will improve your chances, but the reality is that they are still pretty small. And starting in late winter makes it even more of a challenge.

[MuddyWaters]

Thank you, I have taken different laws into consideration and before we leave I will have a list of each area where she will need to be leashed and where she will need to go off trail.


On most of the trail your dog is required to be on a leash.
Check nfs and state lands regulations.

Very few follow this, because they are typical douchebags that want to do what they want when no ones around to enforce.

[Sarcasm the elf]

On most of the trail your dog is required to be on a leash.
Check nfs and state lands regulations.

Very few follow this, because they are typical douchebags that want to do what they want when no ones around to enforce.

The majority of the A.T. Allows dogs offleash. Per the ATC:

Leashes are required on more than 40 percent of the A.T.,"

That said I generally agree that most dogs I encounter lack proper off leash training and really should be on leash for the sake of both themselves and others. I'd be generous if I said that one in twenty dogs I've encountered on the A.T. were bombproof offleash.

[MuddyWaters]

Not that anyone has ever done it, but on much land like nfs you required to pack out your dogs poo as well, to avoid transmitting your doggy diseases and parasites to wildlife. Nobody does this, because no one there to write a ticket.

[adam12]

I would like to share some of the research I have been doing because I also plan on bringing my Border Collie/Aussie dog with me.
I rescued this breed because of my love for taking a dog hiking with me. At 8 weeks she was enrolled in obedience training and has had many classes from 8 weeks to 8 months old. I plan on leashing Peaches because I don't trust any dog to not chase after a deer or other animal that we might kick up. I have a longer leash then 6 foot and plan on a around the waist attachment. I will be using Mushers Wax on her paws due to the fact she hates the booties. I am bringing along pet liquid bandages, pet tape, etc for first aid. She will carry her own pack which she has been training to wear (we are 2 years out so I haven't put weight into it yet).

This then brings me to nutrition. She will be using Orijen dog food, honest kitchen, and to supplement her diet turbo pup bars.

I have a 2 man tent instead of a 1 man tent because we will be tent camping to not interfere with others at a shelter. She will have her own sleeping pad. In the summer she will have a cooling vest. I also plan on getting her regular vet checks during the hike when we are in towns that have vets.

Now keeping in mind Peaches only weighs 40 pounds that means she can only carry 8 lbs of equipment. Who you ask needs to carry the rest?? Yes you are right me. I have planned my maildrops and town stays that allow pets. I realize all this adds up to alot of extra money.

These are just a few of the logistics that you need to think about and be mentally prepared.

[TylerJ76]

I'm a dog lover, I love my dog more than anything in the world.

That being said, when I on the trail, I am firm believer that you should have your dog on a leash, at all times...no matter what.

Also if in 3 years I get stuck with someone who is thru hiking with a barking dog, I would be pissed.

[rhjanes]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but get a copy of "Blind Courage" by Bill Irwin. Bill was blind and hiked with "Orient", his German Shepard dog guide. It is a good read and he mentions some trials for Orient, what he did to indoctrinate to the trail (remember, dog guides are trained to STOP their owner at trip hazzards....guess what the woods are full of). How often he visited vets for check ups while on the trail.....

[Dogwood]

Nothing worse then a barking dog. If he barks when seeing someone that can be perceived as aggressive behavior and if he barks at any unknown sound during the night, that is just plain annoying. Your not going to make friends that way.

Well, you got just over a year to work on that problem and to think about if this really is a good idea. Sounds like you have some camping experience with the dog, do plenty of it next summer. Do at least a week long trip. That will improve your chances, but the reality is that they are still pretty small. And starting in late winter makes it even more of a challenge.


Dogs with working and herding instincts like Border Collies like the Op's mix are particularly alert to sights/minute movements and sounds/minute sounds which could be problematic in the night. Attempting to sleep around others could be a problem not only for herself but the dog and others. Training her dog to not hard alert from common wood's and people sounds seems reasonable to consider.

[LIhikers]

My wife and I do short sections of the AT each summer and bring our dog.
We've learned, from experience, that an unexplained limp can be a sign that a dog has Lyme Disease.
Best of luck on your hike, happy trails.