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View Full Version : Anyone regret moving to pyramid or tarp from tent etc?



saltysack
11-30-2016, 10:58
Looking at buying a MLD cuben duomid for mainly solo use with small dog to save weight but also have enough room for my son......I typically don't hike during buggy seasons so to keep weight down thinking polycro floor only. When you add inner net weight jumps within few oz of where I'm now. In order to justify the new purchase I have to part with the beloved solong6......want to make sure it's a wise choice....I guess I could always add inner down the road if necessary....worst case.....thoughts...


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garlic08
11-30-2016, 11:29
I tried a tarp for some time, but discovered, like you surmised, if you need to carry a groundcloth and some bug netting, there's very little difference in weight. The kicker for me was the PCT in So Cal, when I woke up once with an ant infestation, and another time looking at a scorpion.

I just sleep better in the Tarptent. I don't use a groundcloth with my Tarptent. The Tarptent was affordable, so for me cost wasn't an issue either.

Tipi Walter
11-30-2016, 11:29
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/images/2016duomid.jpg

Here is a pic of the MLD Duomid. I lived in a very similar Chouinard Pyramid for a couple years back in 1985-86 and it looked like the following---

http://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0611/27/vtg-80s-chouinard-pyramid-tipi-tent_1_63c1a323a993a45681d5d6582f2b2c15.jpg
This is not my pic because sadly I did not carry a camera for most of my trips in the 1980s---so the pic comes from the Interwad.

As you can see both shelters are amazingly similar despite their 34 year age difference. Am I still using a tipi-type single wall tent? No, I'm back to a tent. Why?

** Small tipi tents offer very little actual sleeping and living room despite their size, due to the center pole and the angled sidewalls. (Especially the very angled sidewalls on the Duomid). (A bigger tipi offers much more living space except now its footprint is huge). Being a single wall much condensation on occasion would coat the inside and guess what? My sleeping bag footbox always touched the wet inner fabric. The center pole eats up most of the prime real estate (even though you can cant the pole off to the side which weakens the overall structure in a storm).

** These pyramids were designed (by Chouinard) to be used on mountain expeditions in the SNOW---whereby you place snow all around the outside perimeter to keep out both the wind and spindrift---blowing snow. Problem is using these tipis without snow in windstorms. Guess what happens? The leading bottom edge billows up like an umbrella putting tremendous stress on the stake out points. I spend one night atop an open NC bald in my Chouinard and spend all night holding the shelter down with my hands on the perimeter edges to keep the thing from blowing away. Not good.

** These shelters have all the problems of all single walls that don't have a floor---Wind gusts, ground water (you will get ground water on occasion), poor ventilation and consequent condensation etc. The only good thing about these kind of tents is they look excellent from a distance. Who doesn't love the sight of a tipi??

https://photos.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-NWRV4sb/0/XL/love%20knob%20tttt-XL.jpg
This pic was taken on my "tipi ridge" (Beaverdam Ridge in North Carolina, Watauga County) back in 1987 and close to where I lived in my little tipi for several years.

Hosh
11-30-2016, 12:04
Looking at buying a MLD cuben duomid for mainly solo use with small dog to save weight but also have enough room for my son......I typically don't hike during buggy seasons so to keep weight down thinking polycro floor only. When you add inner net weight jumps within few oz of where I'm now. In order to justify the new purchase I have to part with the beloved solong6......want to make sure it's a wise choice....I guess I could always add inner down the road if necessary....worst case.....thoughts...


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Here's some derivative design in both sil and cuben you might want to consider.

http://www.bearpawwd.com/

A local front range company in Fort Colllins.

MuddyWaters
11-30-2016, 12:25
I have two 2p tents and solo and twin cuben shelters.
Ive never had a problem sharing 2p tent with my son because we split it. Even when 11 he carried the fly and poles. When do that, it really doesnt make much difference and the tent is more secure in bad weather for 2 when one is a kid that thrashes around.

Weve spooned thru several tstorms in hex twin to stay away from splashback. I can tell you my son would rather split the 2p tent. Hes less concerned with gear wt than me. But hes also the one to tell me we have too much food

Taking independent shelters is option for us now as well.

When solo, Ive stuck with my cuben deschutes the last yr+. No regrets, but I have options still. I like versatility of tarp and bivy or inner.

jimmyjam
11-30-2016, 12:34
I like the flexibility of bring able to vary the height of the pitch with a tarp. I use a Inner net or bivy with it. Also gives you the option of sleeping in your bivy or net inner when in a shelter for mice protection. At first I thought a bivy would be too confining but it really frees up a lot room under the tarp for everything else and you just get inside the bivy to sleep.

Lyle
11-30-2016, 12:47
I bounce around, but for the past few years I've been using a Hexamid Solo+ Tarp and I've no plans to change for three season use. I currently own this tarp, a Speer hammock tarp, a Gossemer Gear The One (original design), a SMD Wild Oasis, and a Big Agnus Fly Creek UL1 to choose from. I also have an OLD Sierra Designs Flashlight and an even older Sierra Designs Starflight. If I regretted going from a tent to a tarp, I would just go back, but it's hard to beat 7 oz for your shelter!

Malto
11-30-2016, 14:26
I went from a tarp tent to a tarp to finally a mid. I will not be going back. There are several advantages that I have found with a mid.
1) They can handle weather than any similarly weighted (or even 2x) shelters.
2) versatile. You can pitch them high or low depending on conditions. I built my mid to allow me to drop the height while still laying down.
3) gives you a very flexible SYSTEM when combined with bug net or bivy. With these pieces you can mix and match with the trip or even based on the weather that night. I rarely have to use my mid, I generally will cowboy camp.
4) quick setup. Because of 3 -above I sometime have to set up VERY quickly. It doesn't get much quicker than a mid.

depending on your hiking locations you may find a net inner a requirement. As well a bivy combined with a quilt works well out west, in shoulder season as well as winter. This also eliminates the need for a ground sheet and it provided bug protection with either a bivy or net inner. I use the net inner to allow me to sleep without die of heat in a bivy in the eastern summers.

Studlintsean
11-30-2016, 14:37
Is the reason you are getting the CF version strictly due to the weight savings? I have also considered upgrading from a Silnylon Duomid to a CF version but the current Silnylon Duomid is listed at 18 oz which is only 4 oz more than the CF version. I believe it was listed at 22 oz when I bought mine. Have you considered other pros/ cons of Silnylon vs CF also? More cusrious than anything. I sure would love a white .75 CF Duomid and might have to pull the trigger in the near future.

Lyle
11-30-2016, 15:13
A few other reasons to switch to CF from Silnylon: 1) CF is more water proof, 2) CF does not absorb any water, so does not gain as much weight when wet, 3) CF does not stretch, so pitch remains taught throughout the night, and 4) CF is more easily and securely patched with duct tape.

Dogwood
11-30-2016, 17:16
No regrets adding mids into my backpacking/winter sports shelter quiver - hammocks, bivies, tarps/tarp Systems, mids/mid Systems and a mountaineering tent. IMHO, mids/mid Systems are perhaps the most versatile do it all shelter available.

Moving to tarps and mids(or for that matter bivies or cowboy camping) from tents was just another puzzle to figure out which I embrace as it helps keep me sharp, dynamic, and widens the skills set. Did I initially get wet or have snow blowing on me, yes, sometimes, but just like anything when you want to advance you apply yourself so you develop and you figure stuff out.

And even though I'm phrasing things as I moved to tarps and mids that is really not the case. They are just additional shelter options that I've included with tents still being a valid option for some situations. Sometimes a pneumatic jack hammer is required. Sometimes a sledge hammer is required. Sometimes a Jeweler's Hammer is the best hammer for the task. Same with shelters.

I'm of Malto's mindset. I like customizing my shelters to tweak to lower wt and for different functions as conditions dictate. I mostly cowboy camp. When I do want the extra interior space for a dog(med sized breed - chocolate lab) or want to spread gear out(winter or when really wet) or possibly cook under a shelter out of the elements I take the Duomid in .75 cf. It's quickly becoming my goto winter and foul weather shelter and when I want to squeeze in a dog or small additional person.

You have a small dog - JRT - and a small person to add so the Duomid should work although if you anticipate having you, your son, and JRT all together often you might consider a short side entrance mid like the Locus Hapi ctf3 since it helps control traffic patterns better with so many paws and feet using the shelter and makes a more efficient use of protected space when the door is open; nice to have in very wet weather or when the snow is swirling.

What I do with the Duomid when I'm doubling up with another person is leave the persons sleeping gear who's sleeping near the door bunched up in the protective front corner until time for laying down. This way paws and feet are not stepping on or attempting to step over the front person's sleeping gear/sleeping bag.

There absolutely is flexibility of mid tarp height and area of floor space. You can tweak those within a range as desired.

If you can get your head around the seemingly odd shape, in more open spaces where there's basically unlimited campsite area like in Great Britain/TGO Challenge the MLD Trail Star in silny in the hand of a proficient tarper has great potential for use as you describe as well. It's a very versatile shelter. Watch some vids. Those folks impress me with how versatile the Trail Star can be.

hikeandbike5
12-01-2016, 00:26
my sil flat tarp was like 1/10th the cost of my cf mid.

saltysack
12-01-2016, 12:02
Thx guys for all the insight......
I've always liked the characteristics of cuben for a shelter but not a pack......I've always liked the look of a mid but have never used one. As several have said I think for most of my use it should be a good fit solo with a small dog. I think I'll keep my beloved solong6 for buggy weather or with my 10 year old and use the 14oz duomid for colder non buggy weather with a large poly ground sheet....thx again...


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MuddyWaters
12-01-2016, 13:05
Cuben has definite life, it doesnt last forever in terms if waterproofness. I think you? Had issues with cuben foodbag leaks?

I have about 90 nights on a 0.51 hexamid....its fine.
Rumored to expect leaks at 250 or so.

Im fine with that. Some might not be. For them, theres always sillynylon

Dogwood
12-01-2016, 13:28
The people making CF packs are now using hybrid Dyneema Composite(Cuben fiber renamed) rather than just a heavier wt CF similar to what's used in shelter construction. Different traits. Different results than in the past. Better durability, better seam strength, and less fraying. Don't see as many of those old non hybrid CF backpacks around in good used condition. Makes me think back about all the non hybrid CF marketing hype surrounding it's use in backpacks. Saw many times users boasting about their crazy UL CF backpacks at the start of a long hike chatting it up how their pack was 3 oz lighter than anything else out there. Many of the same users by the time they reached the Cali/OR border had made several repairs to their packs often with 2+ oz duct tape to hold their packs together.

saltysack
12-01-2016, 22:03
The rate I'm going 250 nights would last me a lifetime! I hope to change this if i can retire by 55! 13 more years!!! The only Cuben item I currently use is a Zpacks food bag that I've had several years...the few holes it has is from my SP600 being inside it and rubbing....Cuben doesn't seem to handle abrasion nearly as well as other material in my opinion. In a shelter I don't see an issue with this as the other qualities far out weigh this...I'm sure the newer versions of cuben are probably better also.


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