View Full Version : News misrepresenting facts
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 09:41
What do you all know about the McDonald's hot coffee case and how do you feel about it?
After I get some responses I will post more.
What do you all know about the McDonald's hot coffee case and how do you feel about it?
After I get some responses I will post more.
What has your post got to do about hiking?
TylerJ76
12-08-2016, 10:28
Weird post is weird...
Nothing to do with hiking but I'll take the bait:
The news media didn't misrepresent anything in this case...they just didn't spend the time going into all the background. When McDonalds got into the coffee wars with other food chains they upped the temperature to have the hottest freshest available. There were quite a few injuries from this. So much so that other food chains dropped the temperature of their coffee due to customers getting burned. McDonalds knew about this but continued with the high temperature. Finally someone got burned and fought back. McDonalds lowered the temperature to something reasonable.
As a side note- this is exactly how the "free market" without government regulation is supposed to work. The government didn't come in and mandate a certain temperature for coffee. Instead the people fought back against a corporation doing something silly and provoked a change. Too bad this poor lady became the symbol for our failed justice system, when in fact she is the picture perfect example of how our nation works when the government doesn't step in with regulations.
A pretty good documentary was made about this case and I recently watched it on Netflix. The women's injuries were pretty severe.
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 10:45
This post will make more sense later I promise. I will even tie it to the trail.
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 10:49
At the time it happened the news reported that she burned herself with hot coffee and wad suing McDonalds. They later reported the jury award.
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 10:51
When I first did this assignment in law class thats all I knew. My initial thoughts were the case was stupid. Coffee is hot. It can burn you. I thought the monetary aeard was obscenely high.
Sarcasm the elf
12-08-2016, 10:54
This post will make more sense later I promise. I will even tie it to the trail.
I know of a youth group hiker on the A.T. who accidently poured an entire cup of boiling water down the leg of another young hiker in the group while trying to make oatmeal. Does that count as tying it back? :D
I remember years ago watching some young reporter "LIVE on the scene!" at a reservoir a few minutes from my house. As an example of how HEAVY the recent rain was, the reporter was vigorously warning us all that the water was RUSHING UP AND OVER THE DAM.
The dam in question was a common spillway.... spilling water out of the reservoir like it does all day every day...
37355
I have found that most media sources tend to be a bit sensationalistic in an attempt to get your attention. And most commonly when they are talking about something you have knowledge about, you will shake your head as they get it all wrong. Granted, being in the media requires you to be conversant in many many subjects, but the outright factual errors get a bit annoying.
Puddlefish
12-08-2016, 12:33
Bring in the hiking angle, or close this thread please.
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 12:38
Patience Puddlefish. Patience.
Sarcasm the elf
12-08-2016, 12:42
Nothing to do with hiking but I'll take the bait:
The news media didn't misrepresent anything in this case...they just didn't spend the time going into all the background. When McDonalds got into the coffee wars with other food chains they upped the temperature to have the hottest freshest available. There were quite a few injuries from this. So much so that other food chains dropped the temperature of their coffee due to customers getting burned. McDonalds knew about this but continued with the high temperature. Finally someone got burned and fought back. McDonalds lowered the temperature to something reasonable.
Depending what newssource you read there was quite a bit of intentional distortion.
To add to what you wrote:
McDonalds was brewing their coffee at close to boiling as a cost savings measure because it reduced the amount of coffee beans needed.
The woman sufferend third degree burns, was hospitalized for eight days, underwent skin grafts, and received medical treatment for two years as a result of the accident.
The woman initially asked McDonalds to cover only her medical costs of approximately $20,000, but they refused and offered her an insultingly low amount.
When she finally sued them, the jury awarded her damages that were equivalent to one-two days's worth of coffee the company's sales as punative damages in addition to a smaller amount to cover actual costs and attorneys fees. This is the the multi-million dollar amount that the media widely reported.
McDonalds appealed and had the damage amount greatly reduced. The woman never received millions of dollars. The final settlement was reached privately and the amount is not publicly known.
No word on whether she used the money to hike the A.T.
bigcranky
12-08-2016, 12:57
I know of a youth group hiker on the A.T. who accidently poured an entire cup of boiling water down the leg of another young hiker in the group while trying to make oatmeal. Does that count as tying it back? :D
I did this to my wife at the summit of Mt Rogers, while making hot tea on a cold winter day. Poured boiling water all over her hand. Oops. Luckily there was a foot of snow on the ground and she packed snow all over the hand within a couple of seconds, and she wasn't burned at all.
Made me MUCH more careful with stoves and boiling water.
Puddlefish
12-08-2016, 12:59
Patience Puddlefish. Patience.
I have strong political opinions, I love debating, I could write a thesis on this topic. I'd be happy to address it on another site, and tell you exactly what you are and what you aren't considering. Instead, you put forth a clickbaiting topic, that I fully suspect will be a thinly veiled excuse for you to spout your opinion at a captive audience who will politely refrain from arguing about politics on a backpacking website. I hate this kind of weasely BS.
MuddyWaters
12-08-2016, 13:11
Always check the lid on hot coffee you get handed to you.
All drinks actually
But especially hot coffee
Innumerable times Ive received lids on so poorly they popped right off
sometimes its been just poor cheap cup/lid design that doesnt work well,
sometimes its a damaged cup rim, or split edge of lid
sometimes its operator error by the einstein working the counter or window
Ive had them pop off while being handed to me, by the person squeezing sides of cup
If the first thing you do isnt check the fit of the lid, your just waiting to burn your lap
And you wont be getting $2 million dollars either
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 13:18
https://www.ttla.com/index.cfm?pg=McDonaldsCoffeeCaseFacts
When the case was making the news not all of the facts were reported.
McDonalds knew the coffee could cause serious injury. There were over 700 prior cases some involving employees spilling coffee on customers including children. Their coffee was so hot it could cause third degree burns in less than 10 seconds.
The news didnt report that as far as I remember.
Now to make it applicable to hiking.
The fires and the teens charged. Some are already rushing to harsh judgment. What isnt the news telling us? Whats going to be revealed later?
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 13:19
Oh and the cup was defective.
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 13:21
I remember years ago watching some young reporter "LIVE on the scene!" at a reservoir a few minutes from my house. As an example of how HEAVY the recent rain was, the reporter was vigorously warning us all that the water was RUSHING UP AND OVER THE DAM.
The dam in question was a common spillway.... spilling water out of the reservoir like it does all day every day...
37355
I have found that most media sources tend to be a bit sensationalistic in an attempt to get your attention. And most commonly when they are talking about something you have knowledge about, you will shake your head as they get it all wrong. Granted, being in the media requires you to be conversant in many many subjects, but the outright factual errors get a bit annoying.
And then theres this. You cant always take everything you hear on the news at face value.
Macdonalds at the time had already recieved several hundred complaints on the temp of their coffee. They ignored it.
Puddlefish
12-08-2016, 13:23
https://www.ttla.com/index.cfm?pg=McDonaldsCoffeeCaseFacts
When the case was making the news not all of the facts were reported.
McDonalds knew the coffee could cause serious injury. There were over 700 prior cases some involving employees spilling coffee on customers including children. Their coffee was so hot it could cause third degree burns in less than 10 seconds.
The news didnt report that as far as I remember.
Now to make it applicable to hiking.
The fires and the teens charged. Some are already rushing to harsh judgment. What isnt the news telling us? Whats going to be revealed later?
Apples and oranges. Privacy laws pertaining to minors and the press in one circumstance. Criminal vs. civil proceedings. Corporate vs. community. Worst analogy ever. These are purely political questions having zero to do with hiking.
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 13:23
Always check the lid on hot coffee you get handed to you.
All drinks actually
But especially hot coffee
Innumerable times Ive received lids on so poorly they popped right off
sometimes its been just poor cheap cup/lid design that doesnt work well,
sometimes its a damaged cup rim, or split edge of lid
sometimes its operator error by the einstein working the counter or window
Ive had them pop off while being handed to me, by the person squeezing sides of cup
If the first thing you do isnt check the fit of the lid, your just waiting to burn your lap
And you wont be getting $2 million dollars either
Even if the company knew it was serving coffee so hot a spill would cause a third degree burn in less than 10 seconds. And the company knew the cup was defective.
Slo-go'en
12-08-2016, 13:40
Even if the company knew it was serving coffee so hot a spill would cause a third degree burn in less than 10 seconds. And the company knew the cup was defective.
Which is why government regulations are important, as industry does not do responsible things without them. We would not have safe food, water, clean air, safe cars, safe consumer products, safe working conditions and a host of other things which protect people from corporate greed without regulations. Maybe if there was a government regulation about the temperature of coffee served, the McDonalds incident would not have occurred.
TylerJ76
12-08-2016, 14:01
Even if the company knew it was serving coffee so hot a spill would cause a third degree burn in less than 10 seconds. And the company knew the cup was defective.
What is your angle here??
gracebowen
12-08-2016, 14:11
The news didnt report these facts. Yes i picked a hot yopic case and am showing that the news didnt tell the whole story.
I dont take the news at face value because I know they sometimes leave out important details.
What is the news not reporting about the fires on the trail? Maybe nothing. Maybe something.
Unless we are talking about the McDonald's on the PCT, this has jack to do with hiking.
Not even tangentially.
Start a blog.