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nsherry61
12-12-2016, 15:11
It's time again for me to start fiddling with my footwear and trying to tune it for winter use, and I'm looking for insight and ideas.

Currently, my choice of winter footwear system benefits from (is actually dependent on) vapor barrier socks.
Currently, my vapor barrier of choice is plastic bags, some of which work pretty well and some of which fail.

The biggest problem with plastic bags, once you figure out which ones fit and don't tear, is keeping them up (not sliding down).

My questions to all of you experienced experimenters out there:
1) What bags or commercial socks or other things have you found that work well as VBL socks?
2) What techniques, if any, have you found that help keep your VBL socks operating well?

Finally, my immediate, current, experiment is making some custom socks out of storm window shrink-wrap material cut, taped, and shrunk into shape for my overly large feet. . . no results yet.

Has anybody tried anything like this? Thoughts?

Engine
12-12-2016, 15:20
Sealskinz socks are usually enough for me, even with trail runners in wet, cold melting snow. But, they are somewhat breathable so they're not really a VBL sock. I carry a few bread bags just in case the socks aren't enough, but I've never had to use them.

Leo L.
12-12-2016, 15:48
I use square socks with good success.
Take a reasonable strong plastic, for foot size 9 cut two square pieces of 500x500mm (20x20inch), spread out flat in front of you so that one corner is pointing towards you, place one foot centered on the piece, then flap the corner opposite of you over your toes, flap the right corner over your forefoot, then the left corner (or vice versa), then slip into your shoe. Help the rear corner flap coming up your heel a bit. The foot will slide into the shoe soft and easy. The plasic will fold neatly around your foot and will provide an almost perfectly waterproof liner.
Cut several pieces and carry as spare. Very easy to make, very cheap.

Dogwood
12-12-2016, 16:43
use a rubber band around your Wonder brand bag VBL sock liners to keep them up.

During winter I like a WP breathable stretchy crew height sock like a light wt or insulated HANZ sock. http://www.hanzusa.com/waterproofsocks One of the few socks that fit so comfortably given my high instep high volume WIDE forefoot Squatch like feet.

Sealskins make a comparable sock I also like for winter slush, wet, icy, snowy, snowpack included backpacking.

Both stay in place not sagging or bunching too.

On overnighters I take along a separate thick merino sock pr so I have two pr in the kit. Sucks having cold wet feet night and day on a multi day winter hike. Winter is not a time to just contend with wet feet and grit it out as I might do in summer.

Dogwood
12-12-2016, 16:44
As Engine said they are not true VBL socks.

Cheyou
12-12-2016, 17:10
I use Gore bike wear socks over a light pair. If I step in water I feel the cold around my foot . Today was low 30° wet and slushee glad I had them.

Thom

saltysack
12-12-2016, 17:28
Sealskinz socks are usually enough for me, even with trail runners in wet, cold melting snow. But, they are somewhat breathable so they're not really a VBL sock. I carry a few bread bags just in case the socks aren't enough, but I've never had to use them.

Bread bags make good rain mittens also over gloves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T.S.Kobzol
12-12-2016, 17:49
I use VB but only at the extreme lows of temperature forecast. I wonder why you consider VB as your default choice for winter hiking and not insulated winter boots?

moldy
12-12-2016, 17:52
Waterproof socks are like the Emperor's new clothes. Mythology.

nsherry61
12-12-2016, 19:59
I use VB but only at the extreme lows of temperature forecast. I wonder why you consider VB as your default choice for winter hiking and not insulated winter boots?
I use VB on my feet instead of insulated boots (at least when it is below 20*F or so) because I can keep my feet warm down to -15*F in trail running shoes, which are way more fun to hike, climb, and snowshoe in than heavy and clunky insulated boots. My trail runners along with my sock system are about the same warmth as my ski boots without VB and less than 1/2 the weight.

FWIW, my sock system is a very thin synthetic sock next to skin, then VB lines, then heavier insulating sock, then another waterproof layer (or Gortex shoes), then the shoe, then gaiter (generally short gaiters). Pretty standard stuff and highly effective.

ScareBear
12-12-2016, 20:14
I just can't picture myself in trail runners with snowshoes at 15 below zero F...I've honestly never seen that...

ScareBear
12-12-2016, 20:22
I don't know what ski boots you've been wearing, but I wear a liner sock only in mine and my feet still sweat at zero F...other than my Kamik's(snowmobile proven at -27F and 86.7MPH for a windchill of -78F), my ski boots are my warmest boots!

And, other than at altitude out west, where do you snowshoe at 15 below zero? That's some International Falls stuff right there........

T.S.Kobzol
12-12-2016, 20:28
Cool. You got it figured out. Cheers :)

MuddyWaters
12-12-2016, 20:43
I don't know what ski boots you've been wearing, but I wear a liner sock only in mine and my feet still sweat at zero F...other than my Kamik's(snowmobile proven at -27F and 86.7MPH for a windchill of -78F), my ski boots are my warmest boots!

And, other than at altitude out west, where do you snowshoe at 15 below zero? That's some International Falls stuff right there........

Same here, liner sock only in ski boots. Custom fit.

Kfried
12-12-2016, 21:57
I really like vapor barrier clothing and socks. Rbh designs makes terrific calf-high socks that are very comfortable. Have used them for winter hiking and camping. Much nicer than sleeping with your boots and, in the morning, it's really nice to put on boots that aren't frozen.

i also own the socks from Stephenson-warmlite which are much cheaper, fit less well and aren't sewn very well - they work.

the http://www.rbhdesigns.com/product/15154/vaprthrm-nts-jacket.htm is great too. This is my go to item for winter camping, hiking, skiing as its super comfortable and has loads of venting options.

here's a pick crossing kidney pond with katahdin in the background (wearing the shirt for trekking):

nsherry61
12-12-2016, 23:16
I just can't picture myself in trail runners with snowshoes at 15 below zero F...I've honestly never seen that...
This picture is under my tarp snow camping at about 0*F after snowshoeing in for a few hours in the Oregon Cascades. Had 3' of fresh powder making it a long slow trudge. I was surprise at how well my feet did, especially with low gaiters. But, with the snowshoes effectively pre-drilling the dry snow, my feet did great.

37421

I did this same thing again (with much less snow) at -15*F in Kettle Moraine State Forest in Wisconsin two winters ago. Yes, I did the trip specifically to play with my cold weather setup during a cold snap. -15*F was pushing it as my feet did start of get chilled when I stopped moving such that standing around camp needed to be limited. I would look into insulated shoes or boots if I was planning to be out for very long in weather colder than -15*F.

Also, last winter I climbed in the White Mountains quite a bit (Mounts Washington, Monroe, Moosilauke, Lincoln and Lafayette) mostly with microspikes (not snowshoes) in my Merrel Moab GTX low-top shoes with low gaiters and the inner VB only since the shoes are waterproof. But, it never got colder than about 0*F and 30-35 mph winds, and the winds didn't effect my feet to much.


I don't know what ski boots you've been wearing, but I wear a liner sock only in mine and my feet still sweat at zero F...other than my Kamik's(snowmobile proven at -27F and 86.7MPH for a windchill of -78F), my ski boots are my warmest boots! . . .
Sorry I wasn't a bit more clear on this. My ski boots are leather Fisher backcountry ski boots, not plastic boots. If I recall, they have a combination of Thinsulate and wool pile for insulation, and they are also good to slightly below zero (without VB socks), but get cold standing around, similar to my trail runners combined with my previously stated sock system.

nsherry61
12-12-2016, 23:38
. . . I wear a liner sock only in mine and my feet still sweat at zero F . . .
That brings me to a key point in discussing why trail runners in the winter can work so effectively. There is no reason to wear footwear so warm that your feet are sweating if you can wear lighter and less expensive footwear that keeps your feet warm enough. On an icy, rocky climb with a friend this last weekend, my lighter, more flexible shoes allowed me to maintain much better ground control than he did in his newer heavier insulated boots. Thus, while he had two or three falls, I had none.

Anyway, we're drifting. I really want more good VBL sock ideas and input on this thread.

QiWiz
12-13-2016, 12:44
When using bags for VBL, I have found that oven roaster bags (the smaller ones for roasting a chicken rather than the larger turkey roasting bags) are quite durable as compared to others I have tried. I almost always have at least one pair in my kit, so that if my hiking shoes get wet, I can put on dry socks, then the bags, then the shoes and keep my feet fairly dry in camp. I don't pack camp shoes. This is not really using them as a VBL, which would require 2 pairs of bags under and over socks. I don't tend to do this very often.

QiWiz
12-13-2016, 12:45
Forgot to mention that if it's really cold, the down booties go into my kit. Best Christmas present ever.

Mags
12-13-2016, 14:19
Another vote for oven or bread bags.

I call it "BagTex"

rocketsocks
12-13-2016, 17:05
Long umbrella bags found at the entrances of many establishments work well as knee highs.

Bowzman7
12-13-2016, 21:07
Armorskin liners