Current North Face Quality

[StillMoving]

Is the current quality of North Face products worth the money?

I've read at least one comment here that in recent years the quality has dropped.

I have 2 older NF fleece jackets. While I don't use them for backpacking I just use one for (to keep it short) around town, the other for sitting around the campfire, truck camping, etc.

My dad is in his 80s and wanted one, so I ordered him one. 3 things immediately stood out:

1. The fleece seemed thinner and cheesier - tough to qualify that one.
2. The nylon abrasion patches were thinner.
3. The new one has a ribbed nylon-elastic cuff ...Boo hiss...while mine has a small rope-elastic deal.

Over the years I've had 2 NF bags and they were great. My last backpacking trip most everything I had was stolen, so I'm in the market to replace things.

Guess the reality is I'm mostly interested in current bag quality but all info is welcome.

Thanks.

And I'm hoping since I can't edit my posts that I have the paragraph thing figured out. In Preview mode it looks good, but in the past the paragraphs disappear when I hit Submit.

[martinb]

From what I've heard it hit or miss. Depends on which foreign plant made it.

[OutdoorsygirlNH]

Got a replacement jacket for my old NF fleece that I have had for years and finally zipper could not be repaired. It was not as good as quality as my old one. Fleece was skimpy and it just is not as warm as my old one.

http://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/MoosejawMB/10094636x1108461_vSpin?$product1000$

[scrabbler]

Its kind of a tricky question. Materials and technology have changed over the years too. The one that seems lighter today might actually be warmer than the thicker one from years ago, just based on materials and advances. Zippers may be thinner. Comparing NF to competitors is more relevant.

[StillMoving]

Got a replacement jacket for my old NF fleece that I have had for years and finally zipper could not be repaired. It was not as good as quality as my old one. Fleece was skimpy and it just is not as warm as my old one.
Bummer. I always hate when good products change their manufacturing plan to quantity-over-quality.

I just checked all zips old vs. new:

The locking teeth may be a tiny bit smaller on the new, all the metal zip pulls are different shaped but not necessarily worse - who knows?, the metal thing that locks the teeth together on the main closure seems to be a bit smaller on the new also.

Thanks.

[StillMoving]

Its kind of a tricky question. Materials and technology have changed over the years too. The one that seems lighter today might actually be warmer than the thicker one from years ago, just based on materials and advances. Zippers may be thinner. Comparing NF to competitors is more relevant.
That's a really good point.

I've never been a gear expert...guess I just got lucky and found what worked without too much drama or wasted money. The military gave me good stuff so I had a good place to start.

I need to get close to being an expert though as I need to replace things and want to try the AT in '18.

Matter of fact this weekend I'm going out to truck camp and will use my old MSS as the forecast claims a low of 32F and humidity 55%...although it's usually a bit colder where I'll be.

Thanks.

[The Solemates]

of course its not worth it. a $10 fleece at goodwill is just as warm as a north face expensive one. all depends on the density of the fabric. there are plenty of cheap fleeces with adequate density.

[StillMoving]

of course its not worth it. a $10 fleece at goodwill is just as warm as a north face expensive one. all depends on the density of the fabric. there are plenty of cheap fleeces with adequate density.
Makes sense to me.

[bigcranky]

For sleeping bags, in my personal humble opinion TNF is right in the middle of the pack for quality at a general purpose outfitter like REI. Not the worst, but not high end.

[StillMoving]

Thanks big and frankly I'm glad to hear it. I really liked my 2 previous TNF bags.

FWIW I've been a member of REI since 1977...or 79. They've always said 77 but other day she said 79. I love it when they say something like, "Wow, you joined before my dad was born."

Where's my walker...

[Venchka]

For sleeping bags, in my personal humble opinion TNF is right in the middle of the pack for quality at a general purpose outfitter like REI. Not the worst, but not high end.

Year before last I was in the market for a Rocky Mountain 3 season bag. The 15 degree The North Face Hightail 3s was the #2 bag on my short list. The bag was discontinued. The replacement was unacceptable to me. On an impulse I bought the last one from Moosejaw for 25% off. Long story short, I kept it 3 days and returned it for a refund. Suffice to say they had skimped everywhere possible.
A darn shame. My first 2 backpacking tents came from The North Face and I would welcome both of them back.
Wayne


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[fastfoxengineering]

For the money TNF products sell for, I'd rather spend my money on gear from some of the great cottage backpacking manufacturers.

Their stuff isn't bad, I just get imo better engineered products for the same price point from cottage shops.

[fastfoxengineering]

I should add...

I own some north face clothing. Fleece pull overs and more casual wear. I've been very happy with it.

I would never ever pay full price for these items and got them heavily discounted on local clearance racks.

I have a really comfortable pull over thick fleece that I paid $25 for brand new on a clearance rack. The MSRP was like $120. I wouldn't even try it on for that price.

[saltysack]

Only gear I currently own from TNF is my sons tigger sleeping bag. Great 20* kids bag but it's several years old and not made anymore. Personally I prefer cottage mfg gear for hiking with exception of a few larger mainstream companies such as......montbell, patagoochie etc....


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[StillMoving]

Thanks folks.

Based on what I've read here and info from other folks, I'll not purchase more TNF gear. The 2 fleece jackets I have work good for what I use them for: around town and around the campfire. For doing anything physical they're terrible, and I carried one in a pack in a long time.

I understand the cottage industry thing, and frankly I'd much rather support them than Big Biz. But...I'm not familiar with who's making great and stuff and who'd making junk.

As I said earlier this is mostly about bags. Seems price is inversely proportional to weight, and think what I'm going to do is buy a high quality/best quality bag that'll keep me down to the coldest I'll encounter on the AT, then I'll sleep on top of it with a liner during the hot times...and just carry that bag the entire way. For now, I'm not interested in mailing stuff home, then having it returned later...plus to do that I'd have to enlist friends and I hate putting folks out.

I have a ton of logistic questions and hate to start a thread for each one...seems the search function gets me close to my answer...but not quite.

[hobbs]

Your thinking the right way and asking good questions..On the AT your either hiking long miles or short 10's and eating then getting in your bag to warm up and sleep..Your right put the money in a good bag or Quilt...I have a Western Mountaineering and probably the best bag I ever owned..Second comes a NF back in the 80's as a teen...But yeah I see what your getting at. Biggest thing whats your comfort range when sleeping...

[StillMoving]

Thanks hobbs.


Biggest thing whats your comfort range when sleeping...
I sleep warm, but I'm paranoid.

About 100 yrs ago a warm dry sleeping bag and dry thermals, socks, and hat might have - probably according to some folks - saved my life when snowshoe backpacking I fell threw the snow into a steep sided creek.

I'll search later but I need to try and find the extreme temp range of the AT during a 6-7 month stretch...and buy a bag/liner combo that'll keep me warm.

[HeartFire]

Got a replacement jacket for my old NF fleece that I have had for years and finally zipper could not be repaired. It was not as good as quality as my old one. Fleece was skimpy and it just is not as warm as my old one.



Zippers can ALWAYS be replaced! You just need a good dressmaker

[StillMoving]

I wouldn't buy the new NF Denali jacket...like I ordered for my dad.

Just discovered the stupid thing doesn't have pit zips like my 2 older ones do (I think they're Denali but not sure). He's in his 80s and just wearing it around town so it won't matter but to me that rules it out as a backpacking item.

[Just Bill]

The Denali was at one point the second best piece of outdoor clothing you could own... after the TNF Mountain Guide Jacket. There are many of both still going.

Those days are long gone. If nothing else this is who owns it now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF_Corporation

VF corp owns 30+ brands and basically makes almost every daypack you'll ever see at a sporting goods store... TNF, Eastpack, JanSport, Eagle Creek... all the same damn conglomerate made in the same factories.

If buying clothing- I'd rather put the money into Patagonia. Although they don't make a Denali like fleece; similar price points but much better use of the money you give them.

Otherwise... most fleece is fleece and all made at MaldenMills/Polartec.

Columbia has gone up in cost but used to be a nice middle ground and made a few decent Denali knock offs over the years.

[bigcranky]

I'll search later but I need to try and find the extreme temp range of the AT during a 6-7 month stretch...and buy a bag/liner combo that'll keep me warm.


I dunno, I expect the extreme low will be in Feb in Maine or the Whites, which will lead you into buying a -40 bag, and you'll be found dead inside the bag in June in PA when the low temp is 79 and you've literally sweated to death. :)

If you can be warm enough down to maybe 10-F that's generally fine for an normal nobo AT thru-hike.

[StillMoving]

Those days are long gone. If nothing else this is who owns it now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF_Corporation
Thanks for all the info.

It's always a bummer to watch a company/companies put quantity above quality.

[StillMoving]

I dunno, I expect the extreme low will be in Feb in Maine or the Whites, which will lead you into buying a -40 bag, and you'll be found dead inside the bag in June in PA when the low temp is 79 and you've literally sweated to death. :)

If you can be warm enough down to maybe 10-F that's generally fine for an normal nobo AT thru-hike.

HAHA! Like a hot pocket in the microwave.

Thanks.

[Hikingjim]

I generally do not find their stuff is worth it. I have a couple NF items, but they were heavily discounted
I find it to be pretty good stuff, priced as though it's top of the line.

[Offshore]

TNF is odd - there are still some some good items at the high end, but they were at the forefront of the "hiker chic" fad and basically became a consumer brand. The jackets and daypacks have basically become suburban uniforms.

[nsherry61]

I'm kinda at a loss here. What is really the issue . . .

Most, at least semi-reputable, companies make some better stuff and some not-so-good stuff, TNF included. Most good stuff costs more money that we want to pay because their designers, marketers, and manufacturers want to make a living too.

Buy the stuff you like and quit bitching about how what one company or another has done to product you loved in the past isn't to your liking any more. Sure, it would be nice, in some ways, if nothing changed. But companies change, engineers get new ideas that you may or may not like better than before.

Also, to all you penny-pinchers and dollar-whiners, the reason the cloths have gotten cheaper is to hold a precious price point that can't be held in a healthy growing economy without reducing costs. If people bought decent stuff at increasing and profitable (for the designers and manufacturers and distributors) prices, the quality would not drop. Instead, the companies would be pushing the quality and design envelope to win your business instead of the price point and style.

So please, don't wine about price and reduced quality in the same sentence, you're being a sniveling whiner without a leg to stand on.

Vote with your pocketbook!

Again, why get wrapped up in a brand? Buy the gear that does what you want regardless of brand. You might just discover the next great brand than other's haven't noticed yet, but will in the future. Then, you can join the next Chouinard's Army and become a total outdoor geek.

I'm sitting here wearing a Walmart $9.99 fleece pullover that is one of my most worn pieces of shoulder season gear, and has been for several years, because it works and it's fun to wear stupid cheap stuff that works really well. But, my gear room is also full of all kinds of top-of-the-line gear in pieces that cost a lot of money to get the function I want . . . fleece just isn't something that has to cost money to work well . . . even if I really do like Power-Fleece for its warmth per weight along and comfort.

[Sarcasm the elf]

It's always a bummer to watch a company/companies put quantity above quality.

Not too much of a bummer in the case of North Face. Doug Tompkins, the founder took his money, moved to South America and started one of the largest land conservation efforts ever run by private citizens. I'd say that has far more value than the brand ever could.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Tompkins

[Sarcasm the elf]

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying North Face's increase in popularity, even if the stuff isn't a quite as good. The more that's out there, the more I find it in thrift stores. My go to "beater" puffy jacket is a big North Face down coat that was purchased for less than $50 at a consignment shop. I use that on 90% of my winter trips and leave my more expensive down for the rare trip that I really need something warmer.

[StillMoving]

Not too much of a bummer in the case of North Face. Doug Tompkins, the founder took his money, moved to South America and started one of the largest land conservation efforts ever run by private citizens. I'd say that has far more value than the brand ever could.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Tompkins

Gotta give the guy props for all he did.

[StillMoving]

I'm kinda at a loss here. What is really the issue . . .

The real issue?

1. My money doesn't grow on a tree in the back yard, so I need to get the best value for each dollar I spend.

2. In years gone by I used North Face stuff with great satisfaction.

3. By no stretch could I be considered an expert in the gear world. Through being given gear, advice from my local REI and just plain dumb luck things worked out well over the years.

4. Couple years back on my last hike, my pack was stolen. As I said this is mostly about a new bag as I need a new one, but all info is good.

5. So North Face is what I'm familiar with and what I defaulted to.

6. I've read here and elsewhere that North Face's quality has dropped, and I need to make sure their stuff is - or isn't - of sufficient quality...as related to a specific item before I guy it.

I understand the entire market thing. But to be honest about it, I don't care. What I do care is that 15 yrs ago I bought this product and the other day I bought another one. And that new one doesn't meet the same quality standards as the other one. And that's worth discussing.

Anyway...good info there nsherry61.

Signed, just a sniveling whiner. :banana

[ScareBear]

Kenyon is cheap and identical fleece...

[StillMoving]

Kenyon is cheap and identical fleece...

Thanks.

Looks like they make military stuff also...I guess: http://www.kenyonconsumer.com/store/home.php?cat=17