Carabiner question?

[mikewagus]

I'm new to hammock camping and would like to know, what is the minimum Kn rating for hanging a hammock with carabiners? I have a Yukon Otfitters XL with mosquito net and will be using it while backpacking sections of the AT. No suspension system came with the hammock. I'm looking at buying Ultimate straps and light weight carabiners to replace the one's that came with the hammock. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Oventoasted]

well from what ive been told and read just 1 Kn is able to support myself in a static hang. 1 Kn being ~224 lbs of falling force. since im not diving into my hammock im sure it would be fine. Im using two Petzl Spirit carabiners for my hammock since they are somewhat light and my work gives them out for free. :)

[MuddyWaters]

I dont hammock, but you can get 20 kn biners that are ~1oz for only a few $. Dont know what you expect to gain by less.

[colorado_rob]

I dont hammock, but you can get 20 kn biners that are ~1oz for only a few $. Dont know what you expect to gain by less.Yeah, careful of your physics there OP... at typical hammock hang angles (the angle of the support line from horizontal), the force on carabiners can be multiplied many times over. Picture a perfectly horizontal line at each end holding up your hammock... what would be the force on each line? This is a quiz....

I'm not a hanger, but I have set up a few trying to become one, my mentor just uses these standard 1-oz 22+kn jobs, like the BD "oz" biner, the "oz" means 1 ounce.

[Starchild]

Just remember that the load on the carabiners is greater than the load in the hammock itself.

​http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-hang-calculator/

[HooKooDooKu]

I suspect that any carabiner specifically listed for climbing will suffice.

[MuddyWaters]

i think at 30 degrees suspension angle the force on the biner will be same as the wt suspended
At 5 degrees, its about 10x, so dont pitch hammock drum tight and horizontal would be logic


we tried an experiment in physics in high school moving a car with a rope tied between it and a tree,
theoretically you could multiply forces dramatically by pushing on center of rope
in reality the rope stretched too much to do much good, except to move it a hair

Me and rest of mud-loving 4x4 driving dumba$$es were dissapointed we hadnt discovered nirvana of winchless self-recovery.

[rocketsocks]

I'm new to hammock camping and would like to know, what is the minimum Kn rating for hanging a hammock with carabiners? I have a Yukon Otfitters XL with mosquito net and will be using it while backpacking sections of the AT. No suspension system came with the hammock. I'm looking at buying Ultimate straps and light weight carabiners to replace the one's that came with the hammock. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Look into a "Marlin spike"

[Secondmouse]

I'm new to hammock camping and would like to know, what is the minimum Kn rating for hanging a hammock with carabiners? I have a Yukon Otfitters XL with mosquito net and will be using it while backpacking sections of the AT. No suspension system came with the hammock. I'm looking at buying Ultimate straps and light weight carabiners to replace the one's that came with the hammock. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I have always believed that 5 times body weight is a good minimum for hammock support. since a kN roughly equals 225lbs, the absolute minimum would be 4kN. but a better question was asked above - why fool with it since you can get a climbing rated biner for less than $6?

the favorite Camp Nano 22 holds weighs 22grams, holds 21 kN. the Metolius Mini 2 weighs 1 gr more, holds 1kN more, is a little smaller, and costs a little less. both are good...

[Deacon]

i think at 30 degrees suspension angle the force on the biner will be same as the wt suspended
At 5 degrees, its about 10x, so dont pitch hammock drum tight and horizontal would be logic

This is exactly right. In the hammocking world, 30 degrees is the goal of any hang. You can even buy line levels (to attach to your suspension) that are offset at 30 degrees.

Keeping this in mind, you can then select adequate biners.

[Venchka]

In the world of heavy lifting, shackles (not unlike carabiners) have a working load limit of 5 times their breaking strength.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MuddyWaters]

In the world of heavy lifting, shackles (not unlike carabiners) have a working load limit of 5 times their breaking strength.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You want to rearrange some words?

[Venchka]

Yes. I was on my way to do it when I saw that once again you demonstrated your knowledge of everything in the universe.
Breaking strength is 5 times the WLL.
Cut me some slack. I retired in March.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eggymane]

The first thing to give out on a hammock will always be the carabiners, assuming you are using material made for hammocks like parachute nylon or such and hang lines. The carabiners are your weak point. I generally use the biners that come with the hammock, but most any rock climbing biner will suffice.

[AfterParty]

I think I'm using some 12kn

[Secondmouse]

The first thing to give out on a hammock will always be the carabiners, assuming you are using material made for hammocks like parachute nylon or such and hang lines. The carabiners are your weak point. I generally use the biners that come with the hammock, but most any rock climbing biner will suffice.

the first thing to give out on a hammock will always be the weakest part. you could have a 5000lb carabiner but you're only as safe as your hammock rating, or your tree straps, etc.

weight ratings generally reflect static weight. getting in and out and moving around in a hammock introduces dynamic forces that could increase the load above the rated strength.

to be safe, use gear with multiples of safety factor above your anticipated load...

[Feral Bill]

Yeah, careful of your physics there OP... at typical hammock hang angles (the angle of the support line from horizontal), the force on carabiners can be multiplied many times over. Picture a perfectly horizontal line at each end holding up your hammock... what would be the force on each line? This is a quiz....

I'm not a hanger, but I have set up a few trying to become one, my mentor just uses these standard 1-oz 22+kn jobs, like the BD "oz" biner, the "oz" means 1 ounce. Quiz answer: Infinitely large, if absolutely horizontal.

[u.w.]

How much you weigh makes a difference. If you're 'bout 220-ish pounds or less, then...

In kiloNewtons, 4.45 kiloNewtons, which is 1000.4 lbs... we'll round up and call it 4.5kN - Call that yer minimum.

More won't hurt, but 4.5kN will work. A few folks sell 'biners that are rated at or around that 1,000Lb mark FWIW...

Can you hang from something rated for less?? Yes, you most definitely can.
Is it a good idea to do so?? Most would say "No", but to each their own of course...

If you position your carabiner to either side of center, on the tree you're using - the webbing that wraps around the tree will be taking up some portion of the load you and your hammock will be putting on it [the carabiner].

u.w.

[HooKooDooKu]

After a few minutes of researching, this is what I've generally found:

"Hammock" carabiners will be rated at about 10kN-12kN, weigh as little as 20g/ea., and cost about $10/pair.

Wire gate "Climbing" carabiners will be rated at about 20kN-24kN and weigh about 25g-30g and cost about $6-$9/ea.
The lightest appears to be the Edelrid 19G: rated at 20kN, weighs 19.5g, costs about $10/ea.
The next lightest appears to be the Metolius FS Mini: weights 23g and costs about $6/ea.

Every "Climbing" carabiner I could find was rated at >=20kN with the exception of the basic Black Diamond Oval carabiner: 18Kn and weighs 60g.

[Rain Man]

First off, these issues are discussed and analyzed at length on WB's sister site, HammockForums.net. I recommend it highly for hammockers, experienced or wannabees.


well from what ive been told and read just 1 Kn is able to support myself in a static hang. 1 Kn being ~224 lbs of falling force. since im not diving into my hammock im sure it would be fine.

I believe you are leaving out the physics and other obvious considerations. Remember, weight ratings on gear and ropes are determined at 90 degrees from horizontal, in other words, straight up and down, whereas hammocks are not hung that way, thus comparing the two as if both were apples is ... incorrect.


I'm new to hammock camping and would like to know, what is the minimum Kn rating for hanging a hammock with carabiners? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

For professional riggers, 10-to-1 is a common safety margin. If lifting a ton where human safety is involved, the weakest link in the rig has to be rated at at least ten tons. For some applications, 5-to-1 might be adequate.

My suggestion is you ditch the whole idea of carrying unnecessary and heavy pieces of gear. Simply us plain tree straps, learn to "tie" a Marlin spike hitch (infinitely adjustable), and use "whoopie slings" (also infinitely adjustable).


I have always believed that 5 times body weight is a good minimum for hammock support... - why fool with it since you can get a climbing rated biner for less than $6?

True, why have the attitude of "the cheaper, the better" when it's your spine hanging above roots and rocks. Hopefully, you can make use of the hammocker adage is "never hang higher nor over anything you are not willing to fall on." But that's not always possible.


weight ratings generally reflect static weight. ... to be safe, use gear with multiples of safety factor above your anticipated load...

Not just static, but also at no angle whatsoever. Think of a lever producing leverage. Physics of angles, lengths, and etc. can DRAMATICALLY change the effective weight (force) acting on each piece of a hammock system. So, if I don't want to fool with understanding the math, I at least will have enough trust to rely on a reasonable margin of safety that smarter, more experienced folks have determined for me.

One more thing, small (even tiny) carabiners also cause increased stress that weakens a rope/cord that twists and turns over it.

So, you have angles (leverage), dynamic rather than static forces, and knots/splices/gear that weaken the rating of the rope/cord. LOTS of stuff going on. It sure ain't just "I weigh 200, so a 250 rated piece of gear is good."

HammockForums.net has threads on failures, so it does happen.

Apologies if I sound preachy, but in a past life, my wife and I were cavers and did some "vertical" caving, meaning we repelled into caves and had to "prussik" back up those ropes. Safety is a more exciting concern when you're hanging mid-air 100' above a pile of boulders, than when I'm hanging my hammock less than 2' above a bed of forest duff. :)

[Theosus]

37487
There are many options besides carabiners. Most hammock hangers using whoopie slings use lines capable of supporting up to around 1500 pounds. Any carabiner that will hold that sort of static load will work but will be heavy. Dutch Hooks will work too. I use Dutchware whoopie hooks (above) as my support for both my whoopie sling on the hammock, and as an underquilt attach point. But there are other options like the Marlin Spike Hitch. I used it a few times, with a 4 inch "tent pole repair tube" (basically an aluminum tube you slip over a broken tent pole), but I've since switched everything I have to the whoopies and whoopie hooks, so one set of straps works my hammocks and my hammock chair.

[AfterParty]

I just hook one on the end of my tree strap and have whoopies and toggles. Its easier to feed the end of the tree strap through a biner then trying to get it through itself when I'm cold. And I have a cb if I need one.

[Secondmouse]

I just hook one on the end of my tree strap and have whoopies and toggles. Its easier to feed the end of the tree strap through a biner then trying to get it through itself when I'm cold. And I have a cb if I need one.

yes, it's somewhat easier to just clip the carabiner over the strap after it's been passed around the tree.

but what really sold me on it, as opposed to passing the strap through the sewn loop, is adjusting the height of the strap on the tree once it's all set up, particularly if there are branches in the way...