Smoky mountain 4 day trip ideas in early march??

[smoovoperator]

Alright, so i have been looking over my map of the smokies, and am trying to string together a 4 day trip in early march. Problem is, I am a bit overwhelmed with all of the trails, and areas to backpack in. We can do 12-15 miles a day. So now, I am reaching out. Any ideas folks? I am willing to use shuttles if need be. With that said, what are some good shuttles?? Thanks in advance!

[Engine]

Early March in the Smokies can be very nice or it can be brutally cold with deep snow and high winds. Be prepared for any weather possibility and don't try to pack too light.

With that in mind, unless you're looking for a snowy adventure, I would avoid the high ridgeline. The weather is too fickle and the shelters will be full of thru-hikers. A shuttle makes the entire Lakeshore trail very doable and you can add some side trips up Hazel, Eagle, and Forney Creeks which are all nice trails.

Another option, which is a trip my son and I did many years ago is this:

Park at the Lakeshore trailhead on Lakeview Drive out of Bryson City.
Follow the Lakeshore (also the Benton MacKaye trail) about 3 miles to the Bear Creek trail
Take the Bear Creek trail to the Cold Spring Gap trail and follow that to the Hazel Creek trail
Take the Hazel Creek trail to the Lakeshore trail and then take that back to the trailhead. (multiple creek crossings along this stretch of Hazel Creek)
The total trip distance is around 40 miles with easy trail the second 1/2.

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A fishing license and some poles are worth having, there is some decent shoreline fishing along the Fontana Lake.

I recommend spending some time around campsite #86, even if you don't actually sleep there. There are remains of an old settlement there and it's kind of cool to explore. Since there will be no leaves, you'll have decent views along much of this route far more often than you would a few months later.

There are some abandoned antique cars along the Lakeshore trail. The history in this area is fascinating and also a little sad.

If there has been a lot of rain or snowmelt, many of these creeks become impassable, use caution.

As far as shuttles go, I always used the Hike Inn. If your chosen route requires a shuttle and it's on the west side of the park, this is a good choice. I believe Jeff passed away earlier this year, but Nancy is still there and from what I've heard she's doing business as usual. Just call in advance (828) 479-3677 .

[brswan]

Here's the trip my buddy and I took. Be warned tho, the hike to clingmans dome was brutal.

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[TNhiker]

likewise was also going to suggest the hazel creek area...

plan on spending some time exploring the history of that area...

theres lots.....

also, yes, jeff from hike inn passed earlier this year and yes, i also recommend them.......

they also have a motel that you can stay at if need be......

[HooKooDooKu]

The loop Engine points out was the 1st thing that came to mind. It's a loop on my ToDo list that I hope to get done this spring. However, I would change it to include a hike out the Bone Valley trail. At the end is what is considered the most remote homestead still standing in the park (plus I'm working on joining the 900 Miler Club for people who have hike every official back country trail.).

I wanted to offer a 4-day loop suggestion that would include hiking by Abrams Falls and up to Gregory Bald. But I can only make that work as either a 3 day hike, or you spend a day just walking the looping trails out that way to add a day.

Given your criteria, I can't recommend brswan's loop. I think the daily mileage is too short.
I've never hiked UP Forney Ridge, but I have hiked up Forney Creek several times. While definitely an uphill climb, I've done Forney Creek starting from 71, 70, and 69. All three options are doable as a final day.
An alternative to brswan's idea is to hike down Noland Divide and Noland Creek and up Forney Creek. You can access Noland Divide from Clingman's Dome Parking Lot by hiking up to the dome and then follow the AT towards New Found Gap. When the trail reaches the moutain gap where it's about level with the road, you can then follow the road back towards Clingman's Dome for 3/4 mile to pickup Noland Divide. While I'd have to double check the mileage, my 1st thought at camp sites might include 62, 67, 69. What is not obvious from the map is that Noland Creek goes under Lakeview Drive (tall bridge) and past it a few tenths of a mile. There is then a trail intersection on the left (as seen walking South on Noland Creek) that will take you to a trail head on Lakeview Drive. It's then about a 3/4 mile walk along Lakeview until it dead-ends. Also be forewarned that Forney Creek has about 5 major water crossings that will likely be knee to thigh deep between campsites 70 and 68.

[TNhiker]

Also---if ya do engine's route----take the side trail to high rocks....

[smoovoperator]

Man, this has been wonderful! Rhank you everyone for the ideas, and even route maps. That is very helpful. I might push the trip out a bit further into march, after menrion of unpredictable weather.also, thank you for the hikeinn reference for a shuttle. The hazel creek area sounds very promising, especially considering the historical aspect of the area. I will look into the the engine route as well. Has forney creek even been impassable during any of your trips? What do yall do in that case?

[Gambit McCrae]

Fontana to Davenport Gap.
A walk in the woods (865) 436-8283 (javascript:void(0))

or

Standing bear 4255 Green Corner Rd, Hartford, TN 37753Phone (https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=604&q=standing+bear+farm/hostel+phone&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LWT9c3LInPqCo0tdDSz0620k_Oz8lJTS7JzM_Tz87LL89JTUlP jS9IzEvNKdbPSCyOL8jIz0u1ApMA_oT2y0AAAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiP3onWgIjRAhXHOCYKHd7XCxwQ6BMIlgEwFA): (423) 487-0014 (javascript:void(0))

both provide shuttles

[HooKooDooKu]

I might push the trip out a bit further into march, after menrion of unpredictable weather
Weather is unpredictable every month. I have been told by workers at LeConte Lodge that the lodge has seen snow fall every month of the year but July and August. I've been to LeConte in April where a recent snow fall had not yet melted along the sides of the trail above Alum Cave.

So the simple fact is the later in the year you plan the trip, the greater the likely hood of warmer weather. After all, from a climate perspective, April is about 10º warmer than March. But that's just the average. Any give week in April could be colder than any given week in March.


Has forney creek even been impassable during any of your trips? What do yall do in that case?
One of my trips DOWN Forney Creek was just after a period of heavy rains. When I told a ranger that I had a 10yo with me, he advised against taking the trail at that time. The only reason I proceeded was because it was at the start of my trip and I was going down hill. So if I encountered a crossing I didn't feel comfortable getting a 10yo across, I could always just turn around... retreat to CS68 until I could exit the park the next day.
What I encountered was water that was far too deep and treacherous (white foamy) right where the trail intersected the creek. But I saw this as a challenge (could I get us across this creek without feeling like I was putting ourselves at risk). In each case, we were able to follow the creek up or down stream 100' or so until we could find an area of gentle flow that would allow us to safely cross. The water was up to my crotch, and up to my son's waist. But we were able to cross it in each case such that I never felt at risk. However, I must admit that I started to grow tired of the "challenge" by the 4th crossing.

So I would suspect that you will only find Forney Creek impassible if there has just been a heavy rain and the swollen creek hasn't had a chance to recede.
If you should find the creek too dangerous to cross, your only options are to either exit the park at Lake View road, or climb Forney Ridge.
Jonas Creek trail won't do you any good because it too has about 4 major water crossing that are only a little easier than Forney Creek.

[Rain Man]

Except for when I thru-hiked the Park in April '05, all my trips have been 2 or 3 day hikes. Did three this June, in fact, in preparation for a 2-week AT hike in Maine.

I did Forney Creek -> Forney Ridge as a 3-day loop hike, including travel time. The 4,000' climb up Forney Ridge the last day was a long slog, yes, but not really brutal as the footpath was good and switch-backed. This could easily be converted into a 4-day hike by altering the route or adding a spur to Fontana Lake, or going back up to the AT on a different set of trails from a trail junction. You do start and finish at elevation by starting at Clingmans Dome as we did.

I also did Maddron Bald up to the AT, then down Snake Den Ridge (if I recall correctly, have done two different circuits there). Again, easy to alternate the route to make a loop back down to Cosby Campground to make it 4-days. However, the north end of the Park had shelter and campsite closures due to bear activity, so check with the backcountry ranger reservation office (865-436-1297) for updates and good information.

Another hike we did started at Elkmont Campground and went up Little River to Goshen Prong and on up to the AT and Clingsman Dome. However, you could easily turn this into a 4-day loop as there are several trail junctions along the way. If I recall, this was about a 3,800' climb for us.

I've also hiked from Cades Cove Campground up the Anthony Creek Trail up to Bote Mountain Trail up to the AT and out at Clingmans Dome. Again there are so many trail junctions, it'd be easy to make this into a 4-day loop. The GSMNP is like a spaghetti bowl of trails. If you want to stay off the ridge, that should be fairly easy almost anywhere. Same for making a loop and avoiding a shuttle.

I'd recommend considering simply calling the backcountry ranger reservation office and speaking with them. You get an actual, knowledgeable ranger. I've found them genuinely happy to help responsible backpackers.

Besides bear activity issues, if any, you'll want to find out about trail closures due to the recent devastating wildfires.

I have online photo albums of all the hikes I mentioned. If you'd like links directly to them, just let me know.

Except for Forney, I don't know much about the east side of the Park.

By the way, not to challenge you, but doing 12-15 mile days in the GSMNP, with its big climbs, can be ... their own challenge.

[TNhiker]

Besides bear activity issues, if any, you'll want to find out about trail closures due to the recent devastating wildfires.




most of the damage due to fires is in the bullhead/chimney tops/sugarlands area...

its pretty confined in the whole scheme of things----as in----many many many acres of the park didnt get touched at all by fire...

but, definitely check for bear closures....

[TNhiker]

By the way, not to challenge you, but doing 12-15 mile days in the GSMNP, with its big climbs, can be ... their own challenge.




and yes----someone had to say this.....

dont take the park lightly..........

it has beaten many a good man and woman down.....


also-----you may want to reduce mileage just to enjoy the park...

hazel creek has a ton of history that is well worth exploring....

[HooKooDooKu]

By the way, not to challenge you, but doing 12-15 mile days in the GSMNP, with its big climbs, can be ... their own challenge.
I'm not a particularly athletic person, but I am used to hiking the hills of GSMNP.

I've been able to manage 12-13 mpd in GSMNP, and that includes doing 3,000' to 4,000' days.
Some examples of what I've been able to accomplish in one day:
Climb Forney Creek from CS71 to Clingman's Dome parking lot (me and my pre-teen boys).
Laurel Creek Rd to Spence Field and down to Hazel Creek.
Tremont Rd to Silers Bald shelter.
Cosby Campground to Laural Gap shelter.
BC30 to Mt Collins Shelter (me and my pre-teen boys).
Cades Cove Campground to Mollies Ridge Shelter (me and my pre-teen boys).

I don't list these to brag... because I've experienced much more accomplished hikers in GSMNP than me. Instead, I list them as examples of what I think someone with a decent amount of hiking experience should be able to accomplish.

With even the worst GSMNP has to throw at you, I would estimate that most experienced back packers should be able to handle 10-12mpd.
If you're not experienced with mountain hills, you might want to back that down to 10mpd.
But if you are a beginner, then I would back that down to no more than 8mpd.

[HooKooDooKu]

I've hiked and like many of the loops Rain Man has suggested. But I haven't listed them because I thought them to either be too short for a 4 day trip, or they included staying at very high elevations.

If you can provide any more feedback on what you think you can accomplish, and whether you're willing to spend the night at the upper elevations, I'll look to see if there is anything else I can suggest.

For anyone else that would like to plan a GSMNP trip of their own, I'm happy to share the Google Earth resources I've collected so far:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4ryizyehpuYTHhIMWhLUjZ0TEk/view?usp=sharing
The amount of data is initially overwhelming, so the Google Drive Preview is overwhelming. You'll need to download it an open the file in Google Earth.
Start by turning everything off (unchecking the GSMNP folder). Then check only the 'Trails' and 'Campsites' sub-folders.
When you want to see what the distance is between train intersections, or intersections and campsites (a figure the back country maps lack), check the 'Distances' sub-folder.

The data started from what can be found at http://tnlandforms.us/
However, over time, I'm trying to correct trail locations when satellite images make it clear enough to see where the trails are really located.
I've added roads, as sometimes a short road walk is all that is takes to make a loop without calling for a shuttle.
I've added some trails and land forms of my own.

If you open the sub-folders, you can see where I've tried to organize the data.
Items under a 'Closed' folder can mean it's either officially closed (like some campsites), or the trails have simply been removed from the backcountry trail map.

It's a work-in-progress, so I can't guarantee the accuracy of anything... I continue to find mistakes from time to time.
If you use this data, I only ask that you let me know of any corrections you find that need to be made, or if you make any additions (there's lots of unmaintained trails out there), forward a copy so I can include it in my data.

[rmitchell]

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on plans that include Clingman's Dome as part of a loop, but the road doesn't open until April 1.

[HooKooDooKu]

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on plans that include Clingman's Dome as part of a loop, but the road doesn't open until April 1.

That is the official opening day. But in recent years, they have opened the road early, weather permitting. When it is closed, it is only closed to vehicle traffic.

[smoovoperator]

Looks like I should be making a call, and research before my trip, to get road, and trail info. I have no problem cutting the mileage down, as advised, sit to elevation. It would give me more time to take in the views, and more time at camp. Yeah, i think one or two "challenging" creek crossings wouldn't be so bad, but can understand how that would be daunting with more and more crossings.i am glad to hear a lot of the park wasn't to touched by the fire, that was one of my next questions. Thanks, hookoodooku. I wouldn't mind staying at elevation, if it wasn't too terribly exposed. I really just want to get out to the smilies, and experience their trails. I live in KY, only 3hrs away, and am sad to say i haven't made it out there to backpack yet. But, intend on changing that next year. I don't really have any particular points of interest I would like to see, i just want to get out there.

[HooKooDooKu]

3 Hours away???

Forget about a 4 day trip for now... get to know GSMNP by taking several 2 night trips instead.

Take an occasional Friday off from work, get up extra early, and leave the house by about 5:00am. That will give you plenty of time to drive to the park AND get your 1st day's hike in. You'll get all day Saturday in the park, and pretty much all day Sunday (as you use the time between sunset and bed time to drive home).

I do this all the time from 5-6 hours away and have tons to 2 night suggestions.

So to get things started, here's a suggestion from the last hike a did this fall in the Smokies: Old Settlers Trail and Grapyard Ridge Trail, staying at campsites #33 and #32. The elevation never goes above 3,000', and there are enough hills to give you a taste of GSMNP without a single huge 3,000' elevation climb in one day.

1. The thing you do is park at the 2nd parking lot in the Cherokee Orchard Loop. Get A-Walk-In-The-Woods or AAA Hiker Services to shuttle you to Maddron Bald Trail. Start up Maddron Bald and take the 1st right onto Old Settlers Trail and camp at #33.
2. The 2nd day continue to the Greenbrier area where you come out on Ramsey Prong Road. Turn right onto the road and walk about 0.2 miles where you will cross a 2nd road bridge and the trailhead for Grapeyard Ridge is on the right. Continue towards site #32 (but where you turn a corner and see an old steam tractor in the creek, get your water there to save you from a long walk to water from the camp site). The campsite is located on a spur trail about 1/4 mile beyond the tractor.
3. The 3rd day, continue to Roaring Fork Road. When you reach the road, turn left and hike about 100 yards to the trail head for Baskins Creek Trail. Baskins' Creek includes an optional 1/4 mile spur trail to a water fall. After a steep climb back upto Roaring Fork Road, turn right and follow the road for about 1/4 mile to get back to your car.
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And because I recently did this hike, I've still got an elevation profile I obtained from Google Earth. By pasting a pair of screen shots together, I've got the location of the two camp sites marked in the elevation profile (note while you hike the trail East to West, the elevation profile must be read Left to Right).
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[Pilgrim7]

I do a 4 Day Winter trip each year. Here is my route from last year.
Day 1:
· Park at Newfound Gap and shuttle to Trail HeadI-40
· Light hike to Davenport Gap Shelter (Mile 235.9)
· This allows for an easy terrain and equipment acclimation.
Day 2:
· 13.7 miles to Tricorner Knob Shelter (Mile222.2)
· Pretty moderate hike
Day 3:
· 12.1 miles to Ice Water Springs Shelter (Mile210.1)
· Moderate hike
Day 4:
· 3 miles to Newfound Gap Parking area
· Easy hike (lots of tourist traffic)

The good thing about March is a less chance of Rain. Snow is fine, but winter rain is bad.
I use this site to plan a trip every year.
(http://tnlandforms.us/at/googleat.php?lat=39.8&lon=-77.48&scale=6)
There are 5 shelters between I-40 and Newfound Gap.
I use “a walk in the woods” as my shuttle service.
God Bless
Happy Trails