Plane crash in GSMNP.....

[saltysack]

Jacksonville-area plane missing near Great Smoky Mountains
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jacksonville-plane-missing-near-great-smoky-mountains/479126205


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[Venchka]

We were in Asheville Monday. Definitely VFR conditions well below 3,000'.
Terrible news.
Wayne


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[MuddyWaters]

Shame.
Its "missing" on Monday night and they began searching pretty quick, so seems they are confident it crashed.
Cant help but wonder conditions, pilot experience, was pilot IFR rated, altitude it was last at on radar, was it on approach, did it have contact with Gatlinburg airport, etc.

Flying small planes around mountains can be hazardous, This is reinforced in flight training for private pilots. Downdrafts can exceed your rate of climb and you fly right into them.

[saltysack]

Emergency locator signal detected from missing Lawtey plane in Tennessee mountains
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/emergency-locator-signal-detected-from-missing-lawtey-plane-in-tennessee-mountains/479239705


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[TJ aka Teej]

No survivors in plane crash near Great Smoky Mountains

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jacksonville-plane-missing-near-great-smoky-mountains/479126205

[saltysack]

Sad.....


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[MuddyWaters]

No survivors in plane crash near Great Smoky Mountains

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jacksonville-plane-missing-near-great-smoky-mountains/479126205

As plane was found 1.5 hrs ago, they obviously released these last reports delayed notifying family first of course.

Very very sad.

[dervari]

Get-there-itis can be fatal. Another fellow aviator lost. :(

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[Gritty]

"Get-there-itis can be fatal"

And we know "Get-there-itis" was a factor in this accident, how?

[Engine]

"Get-there-itis can be fatal"

And we know "Get-there-itis" was a factor in this accident, how?

We don't, but the odds are high. Pilots die all too frequently when they push on into weather which stretches or exceeds their abilities, or the performance parameters of their aircraft. In the end, the FAA report will read "pilot error" on this, like it does almost every other incident.

As for the pilot being instrument rated, it would be good to know if he was current, and how much time he had logged in actual IMC, not just under the hood.

My flight instructor said something about weather-related crashes that has always stuck with me. "The funeral usually happens just a few days after the crash, and it's almost always a beautiful sunny day for the mourners."

[MuddyWaters]

Pilot received his private license April 2014.

Its possible something else happened, but probably never know.

Its most likely that in poor visibility, being ignorant of the topography, pilot simply failed to maintain necessary altitude and flew into mountain ridge. Most other emergency situations would include some transmissions.

[Traveler]

"Get-there-itis can be fatal"

And we know "Get-there-itis" was a factor in this accident, how?

We don't know much about the accident yet. There can more than a single cause for these events as well, with a main "cause" identified along with several "contributing factors". We don't know the departure point or destination airport, what the weather conditions were, what kind of rating the pilot had and what equipment was in the aircraft, or if there was a catastrophic failure of the engine, flight controls or surfaces (birdstrike or cable break), electrical system, or an incapacitation of the pilot from a heart attack or other medical issue.

I agree that too many times pilots make the fateful decision to continue flight into IMC conditions or depart into them to reach a destination and something bad happens. However we really don't know enough about this to make any assumptions. NTSB and FAA should have a preliminary report on the incident fairly quickly, but it can be up to a year for the final report, especially if there is evidence of catastrophic nature.

Tragic nonetheless, regardless what the determination is.

[Gritty]

"However we really don't know enough about this to make any assumptions"

Exactly! Hence my question; "And we know "Get-there-itis" was a factor in this accident, how?", directed to Dervari who inferred it was "get-there-itis".

[saltysack]

Pilot of crashed plane did not have proper license for low-visibility flight
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/pilot-of-crashed-plane-did-not-have-proper-license-for-low-visibility-flight/479455815


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[MuddyWaters]

Pilot of crashed plane did not have proper license for low-visibility flight
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/pilot-of-crashed-plane-did-not-have-proper-license-for-low-visibility-flight/479455815


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Pretty much what I guessed. If there was an IFR flight plan they would have had more info to give press. Plane also wasnt in position for instrument approach to gatlinburg airport.

Ive read dozens of similar cases in NTSB reports that used to be mailed to me when I was flying. A guy actually did same thing with plane from air service I used to rent from once.

It happens frequently unfortunately. Everyone spends a little time under hood learning. Gives some false sense of security.

Usually people get disoriented, get vertigo. At that moment on average they have 60 seconds to live. Dont trust instruments because they show things they have never seen before. Pulling up increases airspeed because they are upside down but dont know it. Artificial horizon is upside down, they fugure its broken. . They hit ground inverted at high speed.

Gut wrenching thing is dude killed two other people that trusted him...including his son.

[ScareBear]

Pilot of crashed plane did not have proper license for low-visibility flight
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/pilot-of-crashed-plane-did-not-have-proper-license-for-low-visibility-flight/479455815


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Yeah, VFR license...crossing the mountains in bad weather looking for an airfield. Ya gotta just swallow the spoonful of crap ya just fed yourself and climb to 1000' AGL, contact tower, ask for a heading out of the weather, keep your speed up, pray you don't ice up, and force yourself to stare at the instruments that matter and fly straight and level until VFR conditions resume. Don't stare out the window into the white/grey/black nothing and suffer fatal spatial disorientation(ala JFK,Jr.). Hopefully you return to your regularly scheduled VFR within your fuel range. The fact that you flew into that crap is solely and uniquely your own sad doing. And, it happens all the freaking time. Or some other silly mistake that was wholly preventable. The list for commercial airliners is almost endless. You can only imagine the ingenuity private pilots come up with to hasten their demise....

[ScareBear]

Here's what VFR flown into IFR with resulting spatial disorientation sounds like, in real life, in real time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3QU8J8YJIc

Hard to believe the guy halted the rolling right-side-up...that's usually a death roll or an inverted ending...err....landing...

Squawking 7700 is a given, but here it was just to keep others out of VFR guy's way! But ya gotta love the quickie hand-off to Chicago ATC, just as soon as they thought VFR guy could pull a frq change off!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3QU8J8YJIc

[swisscross]

Yeah, VFR license...crossing the mountains in bad weather looking for an airfield. Ya gotta just swallow the spoonful of crap ya just fed yourself and climb to 1000' AGL, contact tower, ask for a heading out of the weather, keep your speed up, pray you don't ice up, and force yourself to stare at the instruments that matter and fly straight and level until VFR conditions resume. Don't stare out the window into the white/grey/black nothing and suffer fatal spatial disorientation(ala JFK,Jr.). Hopefully you return to your regularly scheduled VFR within your fuel range. The fact that you flew into that crap is solely and uniquely your own sad doing. And, it happens all the freaking time. Or some other silly mistake that was wholly preventable. The list for commercial airliners is almost endless. You can only imagine the ingenuity private pilots come up with to hasten their demise....

Are you a licensed pilot? Ya?

[Traveler]

Yeah, VFR license...crossing the mountains in bad weather looking for an airfield. Ya gotta just swallow the spoonful of crap ya just fed yourself and climb to 1000' AGL, contact tower, ask for a heading out of the weather, keep your speed up, pray you don't ice up, and force yourself to stare at the instruments that matter and fly straight and level until VFR conditions resume. Don't stare out the window into the white/grey/black nothing and suffer fatal spatial disorientation(ala JFK,Jr.). Hopefully you return to your regularly scheduled VFR within your fuel range. The fact that you flew into that crap is solely and uniquely your own sad doing. And, it happens all the freaking time. Or some other silly mistake that was wholly preventable. The list for commercial airliners is almost endless. You can only imagine the ingenuity private pilots come up with to hasten their demise....

Except.... when there is no tower to call as is the case in Gatlinburg, which presumes Gatlinburg was the destination to begin with. If it wasn't, it might be an indication there was an equipment problem, electrical failure that terminated communication and/or instruments (this may be a factor if the reporting is accurate so far), or other issue evolving in flight that required the pilot to land quickly.

Theres a lot we don't know yet and while continued VFR flight into IMC is not uncommon and may be the chief issue here, it's still early for conjecture on cause and effect despite the opinion that private pilots are trying to kill themselves with inventive zeal. One can say the same things about hikers/backpackers as we see similar types of circumstances that result in fatalities rates in the activity.

All this brings to mind an old adage that can apply to hiking/mountaineering as we have seen over the recent past:

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to even a greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."

[ScareBear]

Except.... when there is no tower to call as is the case in Gatlinburg, which presumes Gatlinburg was the destination to begin with. If it wasn't, it might be an indication there was an equipment problem, electrical failure that terminated communication and/or instruments (this may be a factor if the reporting is accurate so far), or other issue evolving in flight that required the pilot to land quickly.

Theres a lot we don't know yet and while continued VFR flight into IMC is not uncommon and may be the chief issue here, it's still early for conjecture on cause and effect despite the opinion that private pilots are trying to kill themselves with inventive zeal. One can say the same things about hikers/backpackers as we see similar types of circumstances that result in fatalities rates in the activity.

All this brings to mind an old adage that can apply to hiking/mountaineering as we have seen over the recent past:

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to even a greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."

You would be in contact with Knoxville ATC(TYS). TYS is 22nm W from GKT. The minute you flew into IMC, if you thought an immediate 180 was not advised, you could have declared emergency and squawked 7700 and requested radar vectoring to TYS and aborted any further attempt at GKT. If TYS was IFR then you would just keep getting vectored into VFR conditions. Presumably. All you'd need is 6000msl, level flight and ability to fly by instruments for a while...

But, yeah its a little early for Monday morning QB'ing. And, I fully agree that risk-taking in both hiking and flying is making something that isn't dangerous stupidly dangerous....

[MuddyWaters]

Crash was at 5400 ft

Dude was ignorant of terrain if he was in control, thats main ridgeline elevation. He didnt bump into a 3000 ft foothill.

Most likely he thought he could descend into good vis. But was simply unaware of terrain. Probably thought was past the mountains, but Id be surprised at anyone flying without mapping gps today. Thats greatly simplified flying VFR, at least you cant get lost anymore.... dont have to obsessively stay found with maps and dead reckoning naviation..which is really stressful. Flying that way was no fun.

[ScareBear]

Crash was at 5400 ft

Dude was ignorant of terrain if he was in control, thats main ridgeline elevation. He didnt bump into a 3000 ft foothill.

Most likely he thought he could descend into good vis. But was simply unaware of terrain. Probably thought was past the mountains, but Id be surprised at anyone flying without mapping gps today. Thats greatly simplified flying VFR, at least you cant get lost anymore.... dont have to obsessively stay found with maps and dead reckoning naviation..which is really stressful. Flying that way was no fun.

Could have been something as silly as failure to correctly set altimeter...oops...CFIT...happens all the time...even to commercial aircraft!

[Traveler]

Crash was at 5400 ft

Dude was ignorant of terrain if he was in control, thats main ridgeline elevation. He didnt bump into a 3000 ft foothill.

Most likely he thought he could descend into good vis. But was simply unaware of terrain. Probably thought was past the mountains, but Id be surprised at anyone flying without mapping gps today. Thats greatly simplified flying VFR, at least you cant get lost anymore.... dont have to obsessively stay found with maps and dead reckoning naviation..which is stressful.

If he was in control and at what level of control is probably the chief question. Second to that are: what was the weather at the planned destination, weather at Gatlinburg at the time of the incident (overcast and ceiling, fog, broken, layered, etc), and what was visibility at 6,500 to 9,500 feet prior to descent. If VFR on top, why would he have descended into the soup if Gatlinburg wasn't the destination, it may mean there was a larger problem at hand and control of the aircraft was rapidly degrading.

To the GPS issue, if the plane had lost electrical power a radio and panel powered GPS system could be rendered useless, which is why charts are still made. You do, however make an excellent case for maps to back up GPS which are not a question of if they will fail, but when. A quiet thought for those who wander about in unfamiliar forests.

Lots no one knows yet and I don't rule out lack of knowledge/preparation for the flight was the first link of a few that led to this ending. The preliminary report will have some information that will be useful to lessen speculation with some facts.

[MuddyWaters]

If he was in control and at what level of control is probably the chief question. Second to that are: what was the weather at the planned destination, weather at Gatlinburg at the time of the incident (overcast and ceiling, fog, broken, layered, etc), and what was visibility at 6,500 to 9,500 feet prior to descent. If VFR on top, why would he have descended into the soup if Gatlinburg wasn't the destination, it may mean there was a larger problem at hand and control of the aircraft was rapidly degrading.

To the GPS issue, if the plane had lost electrical power a radio and panel powered GPS system could be rendered useless, which is why charts are still made. You do, however make an excellent case for maps to back up GPS which are not a question of if they will fail, but when. A quiet thought for those who wander about in unfamiliar forests.

Lots no one knows yet and I don't rule out lack of knowledge/preparation for the flight was the first link of a few that led to this ending. The preliminary report will have some information that will be useful to lessen speculation with some facts.

Gatlinburg was the destination. Rain and foggy weather generally. So likely there was a ceiling fairly low and had to descend thru cloud to get under it.
In any case...he obviously didnt see the mountain range at 5400.

Possibly the presence of girlfriend and son worked against him being willing to ask Knoxville ATC for assistance. Ego.

[rocketsocks]

Regardless of the findings, broken cable, avionics failure, this flight was doomed from the start and what's more his family was doomed, the guy should have never been flying in conditions he wasn't rated for...the record will show pilot error. Very sad.

[Engine]

Crash was at 5400 ft

Dude was ignorant of terrain if he was in control, thats main ridgeline elevation. He didnt bump into a 3000 ft foothill.

Most likely he thought he could descend into good vis. But was simply unaware of terrain. Probably thought was past the mountains, but Id be surprised at anyone flying without mapping gps today. Thats greatly simplified flying VFR, at least you cant get lost anymore.... dont have to obsessively stay found with maps and dead reckoning naviation..which is really stressful. Flying that way was no fun.

Amen to that! About 5 years ago I flew 10 hours roundtrip from central Florida to Dahlonega and back in a C150, 3 1/2 hours of which was under the hood. I was completely exhausted by the end of the day. Damn that old 150 was slow, but it forced you to build time.

[dervari]

"However we really don't know enough about this to make any assumptions"

Exactly! Hence my question; "And we know "Get-there-itis" was a factor in this accident, how?", directed to Dervari who inferred it was "get-there-itis".

It's based on knowledge of many accidents in IMC. I have a morbid curiosity and generally when an accident occurs in IMC conditions GTI usually plays at least a part in it. Inexperienced instrument rated pilot thinks they can navigate and take off in low ceiling because they don't want to wait it out is a prime example.

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[dervari]

Pilot of crashed plane did not have proper license for low-visibility flight
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/pilot-of-crashed-plane-did-not-have-proper-license-for-low-visibility-flight/479455815


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Get-There-Itis. Not willing to wait for IMC conditions to clear before departing.

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[dervari]

Or not willing to 180 if he hit IMC en route.

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[ScareBear]

Or unable to execute a 180. Spatial disorientation can happen very quickly. There are other reasons a 180 isn't always the right choice...especially if you can maintain straight and level...too many variables to conclude a 180 was the right call or if it would have helped/hurt...

[saltysack]

Mom: Boy killed in plane crash was 'gift from God'
https://goo.gl/AXnFU8


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[The Solemates]

Where was this crash? We were in the park when this happened. It was absolutely terrible weather that night.we wondered if we'd make it out ok.

[pilgrimskywheel]

Holy smokes! I thought this was a hiking forum, and I discover I've actually been chatting with a squadron of the tactical air wing at the Top Gun school! You guys can be my wingman anytime! I used to be a pilot too. I worked at a lumber yard. My job was to pick up the wood in the front and pilot in the back.

Here I thought "armchair quarterbacking" dead hikers had drifted far afield - now you're second guessing airplane pilots that happen to crash in the Smokies? Classic!

Anybody want to chat about the light speed capabilities of the Millennium Falcon?

[ralph23]

Thank you pilgrimskywheel! The amount of arm chair quarterbacking on this thread and the hiker that perished in Mass. is overwhelming! Here is an actual quote (on the "what happened to hyoh") by 4eyedbuzzard who was confronted with the fact that we don't know what really happened due to how recent the events are-

"Often there never is a full accounting of what transpired as the victims are the only ones who know. As a result both casual onlookers (most of us at WB) AND the rescuers AND even the medical examiners have to ultimately make some assumptions/educated guesses as to what happened."

So basically, let's just make up a bunch of stuff about people who have perished because they can't tell us anything. Then we will flame them for trying something epic that, in hindsight, clearly wasn't a great idea.

[Traveler]

Thank you pilgrimskywheel! The amount of arm chair quarterbacking on this thread and the hiker that perished in Mass. is overwhelming! Here is an actual quote (on the "what happened to hyoh") by 4eyedbuzzard who was confronted with the fact that we don't know what really happened due to how recent the events are-

"Often there never is a full accounting of what transpired as the victims are the only ones who know. As a result both casual onlookers (most of us at WB) AND the rescuers AND even the medical examiners have to ultimately make some assumptions/educated guesses as to what happened."

So basically, let's just make up a bunch of stuff about people who have perished because they can't tell us anything. Then we will flame them for trying something epic that, in hindsight, clearly wasn't a great idea.


While I would agree with respect to lone hikers who perish and do not leave much of a tale behind, in aviation its rare not to have an investigation that resolves a lot of questions common to general aviation and pilots. The preliminary aircraft accident report should be on the NTSB website in another few days. its a shame there is not a centralized place where SAR/R operations can file reports on those who are rescued or recovered to learn what we can from these events.

Accidents, especially ones that appear preventable in maritime, aviation, and back country communities attract attention. Rightly so, as we can learn a lot from these events. Each incident typically adds something to the body of knowledge even if they do not offer much evidence of what exactly happened. There can be a lot of assumptions made of course, but this forum is not much different than anywhere else people with similar interests gather and discuss these events.

I doubt attempts to end conversation about these types of incidents will do much to curb them. If one is sensitive to them, perhaps the best alternative is to move past them when they pop up.

[pilgrimskywheel]

My position remains the same however. You know how I avoid dying in the crash of a small single engine plane piloted by a private pilot? I won't get in one. Period. See: John F. Kennedy Jr. (And me and the Mrs. are both US Army Paratroopers - she's got more jumps and foreign wings than me!) I avoid freezing to death in the mountains the same way. I won't go there. Period. "Epic" stories end with "And they lived happily ever after." Not with the main characters funeral.

[Traveler]

My position remains the same however. You know how I avoid dying in the crash of a small single engine plane piloted by a private pilot? I won't get in one. Period. See: John F. Kennedy Jr. (And me and the Mrs. are both US Army Paratroopers - she's got more jumps and foreign wings than me!) I avoid freezing to death in the mountains the same way. I won't go there. Period. "Epic" stories end with "And they lived happily ever after." Not with the main characters funeral.

One has to work within their limitations I suppose.

[Uncle Joe]

We weren't born with wings. So crafting machines to turn us into birds is fraught with danger. In the end, it kinda comes down to that. Even our best attempts to copy nature typically fail.

[pilgrimskywheel]

One has to work within their limitations I suppose.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_VrFV5r8cs0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pilgrimskywheel]

https://youtu.be/_VrFV5r8cs0

Okay, bear with me I'm learning.

[Shooting Star]

Backpacking, flying and extreme sports all require good judgement, situational awareness
and knowing just how far you can push your situation; so learning what we can from these
mishaps makes what we do safer. A good book to read that is heavy on "accident theory"
and how to work through bad situations is "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales.


While I would agree with respect to lone hikers who perish and do not leave much of a tale behind, in aviation its rare not to have an investigation that resolves a lot of questions common to general aviation and pilots. The preliminary aircraft accident report should be on the NTSB website in another few days. its a shame there is not a centralized place where SAR/R operations can file reports on those who are rescued or recovered to learn what we can from these events.

Accidents, especially ones that appear preventable in maritime, aviation, and back country communities attract attention. Rightly so, as we can learn a lot from these events. Each incident typically adds something to the body of knowledge even if they do not offer much evidence of what exactly happened. There can be a lot of assumptions made of course, but this forum is not much different than anywhere else people with similar interests gather and discuss these events.

I doubt attempts to end conversation about these types of incidents will do much to curb them. If one is sensitive to them, perhaps the best alternative is to move past them when they pop up.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Holy smokes! I thought this was a hiking forum, and I discover I've actually been chatting with a squadron of the tactical air wing at the Top Gun school! You guys can be my wingman anytime! I used to be a pilot too. I worked at a lumber yard. My job was to pick up the wood in the front and pilot in the back.

Here I thought "armchair quarterbacking" dead hikers had drifted far afield - now you're second guessing airplane pilots that happen to crash in the Smokies? Classic!

Anybody want to chat about the light speed capabilities of the Millennium Falcon?Some of the members here are also pilots. They know about such stuff. Most of the comments here have been pretty much what anyone with piloting experience would speculate as to what happened. And that is known technically as CFIT - Controlled Flight into Terrain. Which means that the Pilot in Command pretty much just flew the plane into the side of the mountain. Often, it's due to spacial disorientation in poor visibility, and sometimes because they begin a decent too early not knowing that the mountain is between them and the runway. Often, as is likely in this case, because there is a relatively inexperienced pilot that isn't instrument rated flying into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions).


Thank you pilgrimskywheel! The amount of arm chair quarterbacking on this thread and the hiker that perished in Mass. is overwhelming! Here is an actual quote (on the "what happened to hyoh") by 4eyedbuzzard who was confronted with the fact that we don't know what really happened due to how recent the events are-

"Often there never is a full accounting of what transpired as the victims are the only ones who know. As a result both casual onlookers (most of us at WB) AND the rescuers AND even the medical examiners have to ultimately make some assumptions/educated guesses as to what happened."

So basically, let's just make up a bunch of stuff about people who have perished because they can't tell us anything. Then we will flame them for trying something epic that, in hindsight, clearly wasn't a great idea.

I think you somewhat misunderstood the nature of my post from the other thread. People WILL discuss tragedies in order to try and figure out what happened. It's in our nature to understand behaviors and events in order to avoid similar fates. It always involves speculation. And even after all the facts are in, there are often many missing pieces that can only be filled in by educated speculation.


While I would agree with respect to lone hikers who perish and do not leave much of a tale behind, in aviation its rare not to have an investigation that resolves a lot of questions common to general aviation and pilots. The preliminary aircraft accident report should be on the NTSB website in another few days. its a shame there is not a centralized place where SAR/R operations can file reports on those who are rescued or recovered to learn what we can from these events.

Accidents, especially ones that appear preventable in maritime, aviation, and back country communities attract attention. Rightly so, as we can learn a lot from these events. Each incident typically adds something to the body of knowledge even if they do not offer much evidence of what exactly happened. There can be a lot of assumptions made of course, but this forum is not much different than anywhere else people with similar interests gather and discuss these events.

I doubt attempts to end conversation about these types of incidents will do much to curb them. If one is sensitive to them, perhaps the best alternative is to move past them when they pop up.Yeah, I agree. While it is sad, and tragic, it's going to be discussed. From reports currently available, the aircraft was a Cessna 182H, N1839X, original airworthiness certificate issued in 1964 (the year the aircraft was built). Pilot was licensed in April 2014. Not a lot of hours possible there and no instrument rating. Local pilots discussing this incident on other websites believe that at the time conditions were IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions), perhaps VFR up top above 6000'. Some discussion that he was using FF (Flight Following) with last RADAR contact out of McGee Tyson Tower. Data from McGhee Tyson and the aircraft's ELT was used in the recovery effort. Most speculation as to cause, by experienced pilots in the area, is CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain). Crash site was reportedly less than 100 feet below the ridge.

[ScareBear]

100 feet below the ridge in IFR and CFIT....sounds like he failed to set altimeter properly and thought he had it cleared. Happens all the time....

I doubt that he was being radar vectored by Knoxville ATC, they wouldn't have agreed to vector him until he had sufficient vertical separation between he and the ridge...they've flown a plane into an object before, you know....
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2012/10/plane-crashes-on-bluff-mountain.html

[pilgrimskywheel]

Some of the members here are also pilots. They know about such stuff. Most of the comments here have been pretty much what anyone with piloting experience would speculate as to what happened. And that is known technically as CFIT - Controlled Flight into Terrain. Which means that the Pilot in Command pretty much just flew the plane into the side of the mountain. Often, it's due to spacial disorientation in poor visibility, and sometimes because they begin a decent too early not knowing that the mountain is between them and the runway.

Yeah dude I get that, but some of the members on here are auto mechanics, or motorcyclists - I happen to be a wonderful cook with a tremendous singing voice. What's all that got to do with hiking again?

Did you know that Han Solo figured out how to get the Millennium Falcon thru a deflector shield by coming out of lightspeed AFTER passing through it? Well, that's some pretty fancy flying lemme tell ya - although he too nearly crashed into a mountain while doing it.

Come on - I know it's a long ways to March 1st but seriously? How many of you cats are ACTUALLY pilots? Like the kind with a license and a plane and hours and fly and I don't mean on a simulator on your computer? Not that it really matters but like SB says I'm calling you out - let's see the hands!

Keyword: HIKING

[Traveler]

Yeah dude I get that, but some of the members on here are auto mechanics, or motorcyclists - I happen to be a wonderful cook with a tremendous singing voice. What's all that got to do with hiking again?

Did you know that Han Solo figured out how to get the Millennium Falcon thru a deflector shield by coming out of lightspeed AFTER passing through it? Well, that's some pretty fancy flying lemme tell ya - although he too nearly crashed into a mountain while doing it.

Come on - I know it's a long ways to March 1st but seriously? How many of you cats are ACTUALLY pilots? Like the kind with a license and a plane and hours and fly and I don't mean on a simulator on your computer? Not that it really matters but like SB says I'm calling you out - let's see the hands!

Keyword: HIKING

Perhaps I can help your confusion with information to replace it.

The aviation accident discussed here is germane to hiking as it took place in GSMNP and there were hikers out who heard/saw evidence of the accident. Note there is no discussion thread of the small jet that went into Lake Erie. This is akin to forest fires along the AT this fall, there were many others that existed which did not occur near trails and not discussed. While these events are not about hiking per se, they do at times impact hiking. They impact trails, people on them, and planned schedules. Hence they are germane to hiking.

Perhaps more directly to your complaint and more importantly overall, aviation has a surprising number of parallels with hiking. Planning, preparation, navigation, problem solving with limited resources, resource management, and emergency response being the major ones. If you note the discussion, a lot of it has a direct relationship with hiking incidents. Substitute pilot with hiker, charts with maps, possible navigation errors with wrong turns and you may see the commonalities more clearly.

To you're last paragraph, I fly GA aircraft and have for years, as have most of those you see in this thread that are using aviation nomenclature properly. I have owned tree airplanes, hold a Private Pilots license with tailwheel, high performance/complex aircraft, and multi-engine endorsements.

Keyword: "Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever" Robert Heinlein (famous sci-fi author and influence for George Lucas)

[4eyedbuzzard]

Yeah dude I get that, but some of the members on here are auto mechanics, or motorcyclists - I happen to be a wonderful cook with a tremendous singing voice. What's all that got to do with hiking again?

Did you know that Han Solo figured out how to get the Millennium Falcon thru a deflector shield by coming out of lightspeed AFTER passing through it? Well, that's some pretty fancy flying lemme tell ya - although he too nearly crashed into a mountain while doing it.

Come on - I know it's a long ways to March 1st but seriously? How many of you cats are ACTUALLY pilots? Like the kind with a license and a plane and hours and fly and I don't mean on a simulator on your computer? Not that it really matters but like SB says I'm calling you out - let's see the hands!

Keyword: HIKINGI think it's of interest, as noted in other posts, because of where it happened and that some of us have an aviation background. And keeping with the tragic tone, just as you might find a thread where someone got food poisoning on a hike interesting due to your cooking background, and where you might participate in discussing the incident. People have divergent interests - we're not one dimensional beings.

And seriously, it's not like someone is actually forcing you to click your mouse on this thread. I promise I won't criticize your participation in threads that I might feel don't belong on WB.

[saltysack]

NTSB releases preliminary report on Smoky Mountain plane crash
https://goo.gl/XKzGOI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pilgrimskywheel]

I think it's of interest, as noted in other posts, because of where it happened and that some of us have an aviation background. And keeping with the tragic tone, just as you might find a thread where someone got food poisoning on a hike interesting due to your cooking background, and where you might participate in discussing the incident. People have divergent interests - we're not one dimensional beings.

And seriously, it's not like someone is actually forcing you to click your mouse on this thread. I promise I won't criticize your participation in threads that I might feel don't belong on WB.

You are correct sir. I stand corrected. Apologies. Pilgrim

[pilgrimskywheel]

Perhaps I can help your confusion with information to replace it.

The aviation accident discussed here is germane to hiking as it took place in GSMNP and there were hikers out who heard/saw evidence of the accident. Note there is no discussion thread of the small jet that went into Lake Erie. This is akin to forest fires along the AT this fall, there were many others that existed which did not occur near trails and not discussed. While these events are not about hiking per se, they do at times impact hiking. They impact trails, people on them, and planned schedules. Hence they are germane to hiking.

Perhaps more directly to your complaint and more importantly overall, aviation has a surprising number of parallels with hiking. Planning, preparation, navigation, problem solving with limited resources, resource management, and emergency response being the major ones. If you note the discussion, a lot of it has a direct relationship with hiking incidents. Substitute pilot with hiker, charts with maps, possible navigation errors with wrong turns and you may see the commonalities more clearly.

To you're last paragraph, I fly GA aircraft and have for years, as have most of those you see in this thread that are using aviation nomenclature properly. I have owned tree airplanes, hold a Private Pilots license with tailwheel, high performance/complex aircraft, and multi-engine endorsements.

Keyword: "Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever" Robert Heinlein (famous sci-fi author and influence for George Lucas)

Thanks for setting me straight there. Interesting and educational. Very sad case here. I just read the newest info. Tragic.

[ScareBear]

NTSB releases preliminary report on Smoky Mountain plane crash
https://goo.gl/XKzGOI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ought to be plenty of Knoxville ATC audio on this incident...

[ScareBear]

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/12/missing-plane.html