View Full Version : Camp soap
skinnbones
12-30-2016, 22:51
Watched a YouTube video where this guy claims that one of the popular items to find in hiker boxes is the bottle of camp soap. He said don't bring camp soap, because its not needed. My question is this, what do you use to clean your pots with after cooking? This soap is only a few ounces and can be used for other tasks as well. I don't understand this person view about camp soap.
gpburdelljr
12-30-2016, 22:57
If nothing else, use it to wash your hands. A lot of hikers get sick eating food handled by hands that aren't clean.
PS: I'm sure some will chime in and say soap isn't necessary. They are the same ones that never treat their water.
Sarcasm the elf
12-30-2016, 22:59
There are a growing number of hikers that claim they don't need soap. As far as I'm concerned it's gross. There are also a growing number of norovirus outbreaks on the trail. I don't think it's coincidence.
The trick is to only bring a small amount of soap, even the smallest bottle at the store is usually 4oz, which is a bit excessive if you're going light. Personally I fill a 1oz container (a repurposed hand sanitizer container works well) with Dr. Bronners (https://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/PEPPERMINT/OLPE04.html) soap which is both natural and biodegradable. Most washing only takes a few drops, so even the small bottle I bring can last a few weeks.
MuddyWaters
12-30-2016, 22:59
95% of time only thing i use soap for is my hands normally
I rarely need to wash pot or ziplock or mh bag.
Couple drops per day is all it takes. 1/2 oz lasts month
Sarcasm the elf
12-30-2016, 23:03
PS: I'm sure some will chime in and say soap isn't necessary. They are the same ones that never treat their water.
If I had to choose, I'd sooner stop filtering my water than I would stop washing my hands with soap on trail. It is quite probable that more disease on trail is spread as a result of bad hygiene than bad water.
gpburdelljr
12-30-2016, 23:08
If I had to choose, I'd sooner stop filtering my water than I would stop washing my hands with soap on trail. It is quite probable that more disease on trail is spread as a result of bad hygiene than bad water.
A friend of mine got hepatitis as a kid from drinking out of a stream in the North Georgia mountains. I'm going to keep washing my hands, and treating my water.
Sarcasm the elf
12-30-2016, 23:14
A friend of mine got hepatitis as a kid from drinking out of a stream in the North Georgia mountains. I'm going to keep washing my hands, and treating my water.
Don't get me wrong I encourage you to do both, I was just pointing out that often people make a big deal about treating their water while ignoring other basic hygiene practices.
nsherry61
12-30-2016, 23:18
If nothing else, use it to wash your hands. A lot of hikers get sick eating food handled by hands that aren't clean.
PS: I'm sure some will chime in and say soap isn't necessary. They are the same ones that never treat their water.
Hey now, I rarely treat my water, but I carry a small bottle of camp soap specifically to wash my hands. Who cares about the pots, cloths, or most of the rest of your body - go swimming. You can clean your pot with your tongue, or some warm water and/or sand or whatever.
scrabbler
12-30-2016, 23:23
Sounds like a very inexperienced hiker. Link?
garlic08
12-30-2016, 23:28
I carry a small scrap of motel bar soap, a fraction of an ounce. I've heard that effective handwashing is mostly accomplished with time and friction, not soap. Soap helps remove oil and grease, it's not antibiotic. Pot washing on the trail has never been a big priority--lick, scrape, rub.
AfterParty
12-30-2016, 23:31
I am all for having some soap. Some people are nastier then others its just a fact. But if I'm gonna be nasty I want to do it with some essence of my values. Health to include hygiene and deit.
haven't used soap on trail to clean out a solo cook pot in more than a decade. meals are made heating water and adding food. easily washed out with water away from water source possibly wiped with a small micro fiber ditty cloth. clean sand, fir needles, small pebbles etc from a stream make great scrubbers. once in town when staying overnight I wash with cap full of straight bleach or H2O2. Do the same with a 2 L Platypus water reservoir and water bottle making sure to clean screw threads.
When leading a group or sharing cookware I will take a 1-2 oz bottle of Dr Bronners or dish soap and held a scrubby.
At the end of solo trips H20 is added to pot that food was in, swirled around, and drunk.
nsherry61
12-30-2016, 23:38
. . . I've heard that effective handwashing is mostly accomplished with time and friction, not soap. Soap helps remove oil and grease, it's not antibiotic. . .
As an environmental microbiologist, soap plays a significant role in breaking the bonds between bacteria and your skin (or other surfaces), very much like soap breaks the bonds between oil/grease and your skin (or other surfaces). Some soaps are antibiotic, and in most cases I would argue that they do more harm than good. A good washing, with soap (not a quick dip and drip), is an amazingly effective practice.
rocketsocks
12-30-2016, 23:49
As an environmental microbiologist, soap plays a significant role in breaking the bonds between bacteria and your skin (or other surfaces), very much like soap breaks the bonds between oil/grease and your skin (or other surfaces). Some soaps are antibiotic, and in most cases I would argue that they do more harm than good. A good washing, with soap (not a quick dip and drip), is an amazingly effective practice.
Had a doctor tell to use soap...hot water when treating and carin for a family member who had a wound, he emphasized the hot/warm water part.
saltysack
12-30-2016, 23:49
Small repurposed .5 oz visine bottle with Dr.B goes along way....
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As an environmental microbiologist, soap plays a significant role in breaking the bonds between bacteria and your skin (or other surfaces), very much like soap breaks the bonds between oil/grease and your skin (or other surfaces). Some soaps are antibiotic, and in most cases I would argue that they do more harm than good. A good washing, with soap (not a quick dip and drip), is an amazingly effective practice.
From what I understand water in itself has antibacterial properties so is an antibacterial agent?
Sarcasm the elf
12-31-2016, 00:05
Small repurposed .5 oz visine bottle with Dr.B goes along way....
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Just make sure to label that bottle clearly. :D:eek:
nsherry61
12-31-2016, 00:36
From what I understand water in itself has antibacterial properties so is an antibacterial agent?
I would say resoundingly NO.
Yes, washing with just water, especially hot water as suggested above by rocketsocks, will reduce bacteria, but it does so by rinsing them away, not killing them. Water dilutes stuff and can wash it away. Hot water breaks down more bonding and thus can wash stuff away even better. Soap, by design breaks down even more bonding and enables even more stuff to be washed away even better. Vigorous scrubbing breaks the bonds mechanically while hot water and soap break them more chemically and/or thermodynamicly if you will.
Generally, in my experience, the term antibacterial is more synonymous with antibiotic or "toxic" to bacteria. Water is NOT toxic to bacteria.
saltysack
12-31-2016, 11:00
Just make sure to label that bottle clearly. :D:eek:
[emoji38]yea you really don't want to brush your teeth with visine! Remember putting that in someone's drink back in high school.....not pretty! Would be a back country nightmare for sure....[emoji100][emoji90]
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Toolumpy
12-31-2016, 11:43
I carry hand sanitizer for hands and same for dishes if needed, just rinse well.
Turk6177
12-31-2016, 13:32
There are a growing number of hikers that claim they don't need soap. As far as I'm concerned it's gross. There are also a growing number of norovirus outbreaks on the trail. I don't think it's coincidence.
The trick is to only bring a small amount of soap, even the smallest bottle at the store is usually 4oz, which is a bit excessive if you're going light. Personally I fill a 1oz container (a repurposed hand sanitizer container works well) with Dr. Bronners (https://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/PEPPERMINT/OLPE04.html) soap which is both natural and biodegradable. Most washing only takes a few drops, so even the small bottle I bring can last a few weeks.
I also bring Dr. Bronners, but does anyone know if it is strong enough to kill all the stomach bug viruses that are out there? In addition to boiling water, I use it for my cook pot, spoon, knife and along with hand sanitizer, I use it to clean my hands. I am, however, curious if it has the same germ and virus killing properties as camp soap.
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Slo-go'en
12-31-2016, 13:49
I carry a small bar of soap and some shampoo for the occasions when a shower is available but soap isn't.
Sarcasm the elf
12-31-2016, 14:01
I also bring Dr. Bronners, but does anyone know if it is strong enough to kill all the stomach bug viruses that are out there? In addition to boiling water, I use it for my cook pot, spoon, knife and along with hand sanitizer, I use it to clean my hands. I am, however, curious if it has the same germ and virus killing properties as camp soap.
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Normal soap (bar soap, dish soap, Dr. bronners, camp suds, etc.) does not kill bacteria or viruses. Its purpose is to break up the bond that they have to your skin so that they can be washed away with the rinse water. Even soap that is advertised as " antibacterial" does not kill bacteria when used for normal hand washing (most of these claims of being "antibacterial" contain fine print that the soap needs to be used full strenth for fifteen minutes to kill bacteria.)
The only type of soap that reliably kills bacteria and viruses are types of antimicrobial soaps such as the ones that are commonly found in hospital and surgical settings.
Slo-go'en
12-31-2016, 14:02
I also bring Dr. Bronners, but does anyone know if it is strong enough to kill all the stomach bug viruses that are out there? In addition to boiling water, I use it for my cook pot, spoon, knife and along with hand sanitizer, I use it to clean my hands. I am, however, curious if it has the same germ and virus killing properties as camp soap.
None of that kills virus. Hand sanitizer only kills bacteria. It does nothing to kill the things which might make you sick. By using hand sanitizer, your killing off 99.9% of "germs", but that allows the 0.1% left to multiply unchecked and encourage resistant bacteria to grow which might be more hazardous then the 99.9% you killed off.
Washing or otherwise keeping your pots and cooking stuff clean prevents mold from growing, which could cause a tummy ack. Given the type of food most hikers eat on the trail, getting sick from bad food is unlikely. Your more likely to get sick from eating a bad salad in town.
Odd Man Out
12-31-2016, 14:12
A mini bar of soap for me too. I use Ivory because it is just plain soap (thus biodegradable and unscented). Use for washing hands and face. Pot doesn't need washing. Everything in it gets sanitized by boiling. I think getting the unscented is important.
DuneElliot
12-31-2016, 18:34
I don't bring soap but I do bring hand sanitizer. I don't cook in my pot and just heat water for FBC.
You need one or the other; soap or hand sanitizer. The key with both is to keep it away from water sources.
I would say resoundingly NO.
Yes, washing with just water, especially hot water as suggested above by rocketsocks, will reduce bacteria, but it does so by rinsing them away, not killing them. Water dilutes stuff and can wash it away. Hot water breaks down more bonding and thus can wash stuff away even better. Soap, by design breaks down even more bonding and enables even more stuff to be washed away even better. Vigorous scrubbing breaks the bonds mechanically while hot water and soap break them more chemically and/or thermodynamicly if you will.
Generally, in my experience, the term antibacterial is more synonymous with antibiotic or "toxic" to bacteria. Water is NOT toxic to bacteria.
Gotcha. TU. I ask because in many countries around the world numerous data analyzed studies clearly conclude washing hands with plain old uncontaminated water clearly reduces bacterial infection. The conclusion I take away is that removing bacteria with water rather than killing bacteria is a step in itself in the right direction. Vigorously washing with soap, even non advertised as "anti bacterial", removes more bacteria. In your career the stakes are higher which is similar to hospital, infectious disease laboratory, and food service arenas.
I was reading some recent FDA conclusions banning 19 of the most common found chemicals in antibacterial soaps and even went so far to officially go on record stating, "there's no data demonstrating that over-the-counter antibacterial soaps are better at preventing illness than washing with plain soap and water" and "Consumers don't need to use antibacterial soaps, and some of them may even be dangerous."
“Consumers may think antibacterial washes are more effective at preventing the spread of germs, but we have no scientific evidence that they are any better than plain soap and water,” said Dr. Janet Woodcock, director of the FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, in an agency press release (http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm517478.htm). “In fact, some data suggests that antibacterial ingredients may do more harm than good over the long-term.”
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm378393.htm
http://qz.com/773202/fda-antibacterial-soap-ban-triclosan/
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/02/492394717/fda-bans-19-chemicals-used-in-antibacterial-soaps
Old Hiker
12-31-2016, 21:10
https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Camp-Soap-Cleaner-sheets/dp/B003EMAFO2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1483232926&sr=8-2&keywords=soap+sheets
The OP stated, "Watched a YouTube video where this guy claims that one of the popular items to find in hiker boxes is the bottle of camp soap. He said don't bring camp soap, because its not needed". I watched the same video. That "guy" claimed the soap was not necessary because he stated that he an most everyone he saw on the trail used "liberal" and "frequent" amounts of Antibacterial Gel. I have this hooked to my pack and use it before water breaks, fill ups, meal prep and of course after privy parties. The guy actually held up a fairly good size bottle of Camp Suds; not the smaller Dr. Bronner bottles. The guy also was a "stoveless" hiker/dry eater and gets most calories from town eating not on the trail. So pot cleaning wasn't discussed. However, many hikers are just boiling water and if actually having food in the pot; most scrape the pot, add a little water and drink it clean. I keep planning to get Dr. Bronner's but have yet to do so. My main thought was for laundry and hostel showers in town more than on the trail itself. However, I found this guys insight to be very helpful in determining my personal hiking choices.
rocketsocks
12-31-2016, 21:29
I have zero problem with my peas touching my mash potatoes or if a dried fruit falls on the ground, but I'll be damned if I'm making a cup of coffee with swirls of chili mac floating in it...it's soap and scour for me.
I carry hand sanitizer for hands and same for dishes if needed, just rinse well.
Do yourself a favor. Google this forum on the subject of hand sanitizer and viruses.
As for Dr. Bronners soap, buy the 5 ounce bar. Cut it into 1 ounce pieces. Be clean.
Sometimes you might get lucky and find the liquid Dr. Bronners in a 2 ounce size in the travel section of Bed, Bath & Beyond or equal.
Wayne
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I carry hand sanitizer for hands and same for dishes if needed, just rinse well.
Never mind. Dogwood beat me to it with his customary thoroughness.
Wayne
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Many of the handwashing agents we were provided with for use in the ambulance contained some pretty nasty ingredients, and the wipes we had for cleaning equipment expressly stated "Do not allow contact with skin". The need for such strong chemical antimicrobial agents has ocurred due to our foolish and improper use of milder agents and oral antibiotics over the past 20-30 years. We are creating superbugs which require chemical agents so strong, we risk our own health by secondary exposure to them
https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Camp-Soap-Cleaner-sheets/dp/B003EMAFO2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1483232926&sr=8-2&keywords=soap+sheets
These sheets are impractical for the trail, at least along the east coast where the climate is damp. I tried using these on my LT thru and found the sheet become slick and matted together just from humidity. The sheets stuck together in a mass on the first day.
I'm sure they would work great at home though.
MuddyWaters
01-01-2017, 09:46
I'm sure they would work great at home though.
No, no they dont
Basically just a stupid gimmick
Soap that must remain in non humid environment
And that cant be touched with damp hands
Brilliant
Wife put some in stocking at xmas once, wasnt even suitable for car camping with scouts or use at hunting camp. Totally worthless crap.
YMMV of course.
Treker45
01-01-2017, 10:22
When I take my hiking group and teach them the basics..........filter/treat your water and wash - basic for helping ensuring you can complete the hike and stay healthy I carry Dr B works good, although I don't brush with it:eek:
Just use bar soap. It's lighter and last longer . oh and DONT PEE ON YOUR HANDS !
thom