What Stove?

[Greenmountainguy]

Here it is, as simply as I can state it: what stove would you recommend for a distance hiker that does not expect mail drops?
I once, decades ago used the first MSR white gas stove and it is still going strong, The fuel issue however advocates against it, I do not want to carry huge quantities of fuel and I doubt small amounts can be bought en route.
I have an MSR multi-fuel, but the issues above still obtain.
A canister stove, like an MSR Pocket Rocket. The light weight intrigues, but the fuel canisters are expensive and I would think, hard to find in small town stores. The weight savings would also seem dubious given the weight of the canisters and the need to pack extras and empties as well.
I have a Sierra ZZip stove I have played with but never taken long distance. I am put off by the mess and the inability to quickly make a beverage and get going in the morning.
Some version of the Solo stove (actually a Forfar Stove) that also allows an alcohol option. I could use the alcohol for a quick beverage and alcohol is easy to find everywhere.
I am leaning toward the last since I can use twigs at night, do not have to worry about a battery dying and can fall back on alcohol.
What do you think? For what it is worth, I do not ever want to carry more than 5 days food. That is pushing my 30 lbs. limit pretty good.
Thoughts?
Thanks

[Starchild]

Since this is the AT forum, I will assume the AT, both canisters and alcohol are heavily used on a thru hike. Esbit is coming on strong and should be considered also, but calling ahead to assure availability up trail is wise. White gas is, well a heavy novelty, wood stoves are basically alcohol or esbit stoves that can burn wood when the mood strikes you (ok a bit harsh, but wood requires a backup, but can save weight).

Short summary:

Canisters, they last a very long time, even the smallest one, if they don't you are using them wrong. This allows a degree of freedom, being able to bypass looking for fuel for weeks at a time. Hiker boxes will give you a resupply at times as well. No need to carry more than one at a time, no need to carry anything larger than the smallest canister, but if you find yourself carrying more than one small canister at a time consider another fuel source. Some can get used to the shake test to feel how much fuel is left, others never get the knack (they are the ones that leave 70% full canisters in the hiker boxes and travel with more than one). No problem getting canisters on the AT.

Alcohol, fuel inefficient, but can be lighter due to the stove and fuel container weight. Either way you will need to get a good stove setup, and do some measurements to see if you have a decent stove for your pot and also the wind. Fuel available along the AT, however it is often another step (going to another store) and you will need to refill often. Additionally, in practice, many AT thru hikers end up carrying extra alcohol fuel (weight) due to how it is sold (heet bottles), and it is not as big a weight saving if you do that.

Esbit, has a odor that some finds unpleasant and it does cause soot on your pot, needs a good ignition source as it is sometimes stubborn to ignite, fuel is not as available, but you can mail yourself extra esbit from the trail. Some have trouble boiling water with it (though it is their inefficient setup which causes that). Perhaps the lightest stove option.

[orthofingers]

"A distance hiker that does not expect mail drops"

"do not ever want to carry more than 5 days food"

Does that mean you will resupply at least every 5 days?

Canister stove= ok weight (BRS 3000 or something lightweight), loud, quick to boil, adjustable flame, gotta pack the empty canisters $-$$

jetboil or similar= heavy, loud, very quick and efficient, gotta pack the empty canisters $$$

alconol= fancee feest, trangia, or similar, light, quiet, longer to boil, windscreen mandatory, no shutoff valve, a bit of fiddle factor, $

It depends on when and where you hike . . . extreme cold = alcohol and canister not so good, white gas or multi fuel better, some areas require shutoff valve.

[ScareBear]

I've thought about going to an alcohol stove, as all I use a stove for on the AT is boiling water. There does seem to be some weight savings over a canister stove, but the trade-off is a longer time to boil, liquid fuel, more wind protection needed. There are a myriad of different stoves. Zelph, a poster here on WB is a manufacturer/retailer. The Trangia burner is a time-proven unit, but you will need a burner stand. Since there is a Lowe's not too far away, I am going to get some carbon felt and try a few cat food can designs. It seems the best of the units can boil two cups of water in around 5-6 minutes. Which, is perfectly acceptable for me, as 2.5 cups is the most I boil at any one time. YMMV.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Trangia-Spirit-Burner-with-Screwcap/dp/B000AR7970

However, I do think I prefer my canister stove, for all-around usefulness and speed of boil. Options there vary greatly as well. I'm a fan of the Optimus CruxLite. My former TrailPartner(tm) swears by a 10 buck Chinese knock-off of the MSR Pocket Rocket you can find on amazon. If you do a lot of cold-weather(below 15F) camping, you may want to look into a remote inverted canister stove...almost everywhere near the AT that you can find alcohol, you can find canisters. And, vice versa...just sayin..

[nsherry61]

There are many threads in these forums looking at net weight carried for canister vs. alcohol. If you haven't read over some of them, they are worth a look.

Here is one I started a while back . . . (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/121609-Stove-Thoughts-amp-Comparisons?highlight=)

[Venchka]

Number of thru hikers = Number of stove+fuel opinions.
Wayne


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[Engine]

Started out with the original remote fueled Coleman Peak 1 model in the 80's, then moved to an MSR Whisperlite for a few years. After that I briefly tried the MSR Dragonfly, but it woke people up in the next county in the morning...ridiculously loud. We went straight to a homeade alcohol stove after that and have never had an issue. I am currently using a Caldera Cone with a Zelph Starlyte stove, it's very fuel efficient and light.

I always felt like the disadvantages outweighed the advantages for wood fueled stoves. It rains a lot in the east and having to deal with soaked fuel, or carry some to keep it dry is a pain. In addition, the soot from cooking gets all over everything if you aren't extra careful.

The other day I read a post somewhere on WB where someone mentioned they only actually cooked about 600 calories a day and the rest were eaten cold. That really hit home because it mirrors our habits. We will heat up water for coffee and occasionally oatmeal in the morning, but otherwise it's cold food all day until dinner and then the stove run for about 6-7 minutes prior to the pot going into the cozy. That means I'm actually using the stove for 0.4% of the day...not worth stressing over.

[Hikingjim]

I find a pocket rocket is simple and does the trick quickly. Easy to find fuel
Your last option could also work

[KDogg]

My thru hiking partners and I all used canister stoves. They work great and are super easy to work with. I started with a snow peak and switched to a jetboil for the speed of boil and the minimal fuel use. Didn't really save a lot of real time but it fell in with my routine well and did extend canister use. I cooked every day, 3x a day. Maybe not the norm but it worked well for me. Canisters weren't a problem in 2016 except in PA. All the stores were out for about three resupplies. I completely ran out of fuel and even had a few days where I didn't cook. Walmart has cheap esbit stoves and I used one of those for a few days before getting a new canister. I never saw anybody else use esbit the entire time I was hiking. It worked but I wouldn't use it again unless I had to. The stove and leftover cakes of fuel went into the hiker box as soon as it could. For me a small canister would last about a week and a half.

[garlic08]

...The other day I read a post somewhere on WB where someone mentioned they only actually cooked about 600 calories a day and the rest were eaten cold. That really hit home because it mirrors our habits. We will heat up water for coffee and occasionally oatmeal in the morning, but otherwise it's cold food all day until dinner and then the stove run for about 6-7 minutes prior to the pot going into the cozy. That means I'm actually using the stove for 0.4% of the day...not worth stressing over.

I saw that post too and liked it. Another wise trekker once told me to always carry enough food that can be eaten without cooking on a stove, just in case of stove failure. Examples are instant mashed potatoes, Ramen noodles, rolled oats, couscous.

To the OP, read this (http://www.pmags.com/stove-comparison-real-world-use). It covers the issues (including even post-9/11 air travel) very well, and is well-written.

[Don H]

I recommend the MSR Pocket Rocket or similar stove. I found I could get almost two weeks out of a small canister using it to heat 2 cups water for dinner each evening. A Snow Peake 600ml single wall mug, foil lid and a plastic spoon completes my cook kit.

Canisters can be found at various supply points along the trail. The AT Guide also shows who sells them.

[Turk6177]

I started with an MSR pocket rocket and then got into alcohol stoves, first my own fancy feast stove and then Zelph's super cat can stove. If you are going to be alone, the alcohol stove is fine (and I may one day use it on my attempted thru hike), however, if you are with anyone who has a canister stove, you are going to be jealous of their fast boil times and simple use. Honestly, for the minimal weight difference, I think the canister stove with a titanium pot may be the better way to go. I use a snow peak pot and my MSR pocket rocket. I am sure there are multiple other areas where you can cut the weight to make up for the difference. I can not answer to the question of how available they are on a thru hike, however I would assume that the market will deliver what is desired, so as canister stoves become more popular, so will theiavailability of the canisters.

[Greenmountainguy]

Many thanks to all. Most of you echo thoughts of my own (BTW I looked for other threads on the subject and failed to find them). Many, many thanks.
Alcohol: I have made maybe 18 or so of the creatures, some higher tech than others, but the light weight is offset by fuel which is half as efficient as white gas. It therefore cancels out the weight advantage pretty rapidly.
Wood: I love the idea and think that I can get past the wet fuel issue, but the fiddle factor is extreme. With dry fuel, it would by like 12 minutes before I was heating tea or cocoa water. I think I would basically be down to one hot meal a day. Unless I use alcohol with it in the morning, a hot drink would pretty much delay leaving by more than half an hour. Maybe more. I think I would have to forego lunchtime soup.
White gas: I had one before I shaved regularly and have accumulated a pile of them over the years, many from tag sales, which is telling in itself. I think the stove and fuel bottle can hardly be carried much less than a pound. My reading tells me that I would need two ounces for each meal. That means I would need maybe a pint for that ten days and still maybe run out before I am done.
Canister stoves: win out on most counts and I think I am leaning in this direction. They can now be had in absurdly light weight models (like 2 ounces!) and if a canister can last me a week, than, that may decide it. After all, I could go to cold food for a few days if necessary. I am contemplating a ten day journey this summer which will be mighty heavy if I have to carry 20+ lbs. of food, plus stove, plus fuel. Resupply might be possible mid way, but I know the area and I doubt the availability of canisters without miles of walking off route. Food would be available if I am not picky on menu or closeness to the trail, but knowing the area, it might be a 10 mile walk in each direction before I could be confident of a canister.
I guess I just decided to pack a canister stove, maybe with a wind screen that in push I could burn twigs in. I have the wind screen.
While I love the idea of a wood stove, I have used them enough to know about the soot and the fiddle factor. When exhausted, I can imagine how bad the fiddle will be. I think I will pick one up, $21 on Amazon and try it in my front yard before a final decision is made, but the logic of the thing seems persuasive.
Thank you all abundantly. If you have more thoughts, keep them coming.

[Traillium]

I'm using a Caldera Cone (TiTri, w 900mL SnowPeak pot) that allows me to use wood when suitable, carry a few Esbit for emergencies, and rely on alcohol for those times when I won't/can't use wood.
Lightweight, small, highly adaptable. And because I use mainly wood, remarkably light over the longest haul.
(Soot? Manageable for me, especially the more care I take with wood choice.)

[Greenmountainguy]

I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero, the less efficient fuel pretty much means at least four ounces per day if you do a hot beverage and hot cereal for breakfast and a one-pot meal with beverage for dinner. That means 28 oz. a week unless you want to do less cooking. A wood/alcohol stove weights 12 oz. and petroleum + cotton balls less than 1 oz. So, you are a pound to the good in one week.
Obviously these figures are open to interpretation and indeed contradiction, but the reasoning is sound never less.
Canister stove: 2 to 3.5 oz. with up to an 8 oz. canister for one week and a bit more. Some people get as much as a week + out of a 4 oz. canister, which makes it better yet.
White/liquid gas: 16 oz. for the stove and bottle (maybe up to 4 oz. more than this with the bottle) plus 14 oz. for fuel for a simple diet. So, like 30 oz. for the same period.
Esbit: forget it for multiple reasons. You know them.
The winner is canister with the runner up the alcohol/wood stove. Canister wins for lack of fiddle and mess. Wood wins for cheapness of operation.
I think I will go with canister.

[Traillium]

With a Trangia, I took 50mL/2oz per day. Caldera Cone TiTri uses half that.
That doesn't account for the wood-burning possibilities with the TiTri.
Just saying …

[Last Call]

pocket rocket......done....

[trailmercury]

I will be attempting a Thru in 2017
Cone and Ti-Tri for me...I will try to burn wood when time and feasibility permit, alcohol mainly, esbit probably some but way less than the other two
maybe a silly question, are the canisters recyclable everywhere?
Just thinking along the lines of carbon footprint and LNT...
burnt up ashes spead around inconspicuously are probably good for the soil micro-ecosystem, correct?
I have to admit, there is a "cool" factor in rocking the Tri-Ti and that hum of canisters is a deterrant for me...
HYOH

[Venchka]

Started out with the original remote fueled Coleman Peak 1 model in the 80's, then moved to an MSR Whisperlite for a few years. After that I briefly tried the MSR Dragonfly, but it woke people up in the next county in the morning...ridiculously loud. We went straight to a homeade alcohol stove after that and have never had an issue. I am currently using a Caldera Cone with a Zelph Starlyte stove, it's very fuel efficient and light.

I always felt like the disadvantages outweighed the advantages for wood fueled stoves. It rains a lot in the east and having to deal with soaked fuel, or carry some to keep it dry is a pain. In addition, the soot from cooking gets all over everything if you aren't extra careful.

The other day I read a post somewhere on WB where someone mentioned they only actually cooked about 600 calories a day and the rest were eaten cold. That really hit home because it mirrors our habits. We will heat up water for coffee and occasionally oatmeal in the morning, but otherwise it's cold food all day until dinner and then the stove run for about 6-7 minutes prior to the pot going into the cozy. That means I'm actually using the stove for 0.4% of the day...not worth stressing over.

Do you still have the Coleman Peak 1? Does it work? Would you care to sell it?
Thanks.
Wayne


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[Engine]

Do you still have the Coleman Peak 1? Does it work? Would you care to sell it?
Thanks.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately no, as much as I loved that old stove, it got temperamental and nearly incinerated itself along with the old dry picnic table it was sitting on in the smokies back in the late 90's.

[Siestita]

"I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero, the less efficient fuel pretty much means at least four ounces per day if you do a hot beverage and hot cereal for breakfast and a one-pot meal with beverage for dinner. That means 28 oz. a week unless you want to do less cooking." greenmountainguy


As an alcohol stove user I find your estimate of 4 fluid oz. of fuel alcohol per day, to support personal cooking style, very credible.

I use a very primitive alcohol stove set up, just an empty cat food can with no wick, no punched holes, and no other enhancements, a wire pot support, and a light windscreen. I prepare two hot beverages and one hot meal (typically Knorrs/formerly Liptons) per day. I use slightly less than 3 fluid ounces of alcohol to accomplish that each day. If I additionally cooked a breakfast of old fashioned (not instant) oatmeal per day, as you greenmountainguy apparently do, that would probably raise my daily fuel usage to about 4 fluid ounces.

But, you may be overstating the alcohol weight needed for your seven days and nights of back country cooking. Don't confuse alcohol's volume (fluid ounces) with its weight. One fluid ounce of water conveniently also weighs one ounce. But, fuel alcohol is 20% lighter than water. So, each fluid ounce of alcohol only weighs .8 ounce. Instead of needing to carry 28 ounces of fuel (by weight) for your hypothetical 7 breakfasts and 7 dinners, you would actually only be hauling 22 1/2 ounces.

Also, I limit my trips to no more than 6 nights/7 hiking days between resupplies. Some other posters may act similarly. Canister stoves are neat toys and convenient to use--I've owned three of them. But, I suspect that many three season hikers (unless perhaps also cooking for a partner or group), could save weight by switching from butane to alcohol.

[Starchild]

"I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero,...






Try a tea light candle holder, the foil ones. 4 of them still weight nothing on my scale that measures in grams. Can also be used with a jetboil pot as a backup directly (just place it over the tealight stove once ignited, the pot will be elevated enough due to the heat exchanger of the Jetboil),if the canisters can't be found. However they are somewhat delicate and may be broken by the time you need them, but if you have a way to protect them it is a stove that weighs nothing - even four of them.


Esbit is another stove that weighs nothing, some people use rocks as the pot stand, others tent stakes.

[Starchild]

...

maybe a silly question, are the canisters recyclable everywhere?...

If they are empty and punctured they can be recycled with metals, there is a tool made for that, or a can opener or a rock will work to puncture them.



Just thinking along the lines of carbon footprint and LNT...
burnt up ashes spead around inconspicuously are probably good for the soil micro-ecosystem, correct?
I have to admit, there is a "cool" factor in rocking the Tri-Ti and that hum of canisters is a deterrant for me...
HYOH



Generally good, LNT would suggest carrying a stove and fuel over gathering wood for fires, but not a biggie.


And use the stove that suits you, I get a comforting reassurance with that hum - I know it's working, and like the no fiddle factor, as after a long day hiking I don't want to wait. But I can understand the quiet methods too and there is some level of attractiveness to that also. HYOH and all

[garlic08]

I just did a rapid calculation. If you count a very lightweight alcohol stove as weighing zero, the less efficient fuel pretty much means at least four ounces per day if you do a hot beverage and hot cereal for breakfast and a one-pot meal with beverage for dinner. That means 28 oz. a week unless you want to do less cooking....

Yes, it's well known that alcohol stove users have to do much less cooking than that to make it work. If you use more than an ounce per day, alcohol is probably not your fuel.

When my wife and I hiked the PCT together, when we carried an alky stove (eventually went stoveless on that trip and stayed that way), we used about one ounce per day for two of us. We never carried more than a six ounces of fuel weight. That was for one one-pot dinner per day. We used a pot cozy to conserve heat and finish cooking. We never actually boiled water, due the delta H required to do that (chem class was good for something!). (And it was because of that minimal stove use that we realized we didn't really need a stove at all, and then everything got easier for us.)

[QiWiz]

My own choice would be a wood burning stove with either an Esbit or alcohol backup option. Esbit is harder to find off trail, so alcohol might be the best backup fuel for your needs. This assumes that the area you are hiking in allows a contained twig fire. There are areas in the west that prohibit this. Would be fine on AT.

There are a variety of wood burning options out there. If twigs are damp and a fire harder to start and maintain, a stove with excellent chimney ventilation works best IMO. Shameless promo: This is why the FireFly stove is designed to have a huge chimney effect when bottom lit. Dry twigs can be top lit, reducing smokiness, but this is much more difficult to do with wet/damp fuel without a lot of fuel prep.

[Venchka]

Unfortunately no, as much as I loved that old stove, it got temperamental and nearly incinerated itself along with the old dry picnic table it was sitting on in the smokies back in the late 90's.
I'm afraid mine might do the same which is why I asked. Thanks.
Svea 123 & Primus Multi-Fuel at the ready.
Wayne

[Greenlight]

I'm sticking with my JetBoil. I'm not a gram weenie but I only take what I need. I need my JetBoil. If I was to go a different route it would be toward UL with a homemade alcohol stove, appropriate pot, and a Caldera cone. If JetBoil comes out with a titanium setup, I might eventually bite, but I'm happy with the one I have.

[jeffmeh]

Unfortunately no, as much as I loved that old stove, it got temperamental and nearly incinerated itself along with the old dry picnic table it was sitting on in the smokies back in the late 90's.

I retired a Coleman Peak 1 for much the same reason. I believe I still have an old Optimus 8R that I haven't fired up in years. The MSR Whisperlite is superior in all respects, IMO. Still a great stove for a group, or for deep winter, when I care much less about weight anyway.

[peakbagger]

Pocket Rocket with heat shield. I would get 14 days heating water in the AM and then supper which was usually a Lipton meal (bring to boil, then simmer a few minutes and then wrap the pot up and let it sit). If you don't have a heat shield and like to sit out in breeze to cook cut that canister life in half.

[Gambit McCrae]

The fancee feast has not let me down yet

[Starchild]

I'm sticking with my JetBoil. I'm not a gram weenie but I only take what I need. I need my JetBoil. If I was to go a different route it would be toward UL with a homemade alcohol stove, appropriate pot, and a Caldera cone. If JetBoil comes out with a titanium setup, I might eventually bite, but I'm happy with the one I have.

Jetboil did have Ti setup, weight is 9.4 oz (basic setup, no stand), and with a fuel canister comes in at under 1lb (about 12.5 oz with a empty fuel canister). It had a problem as the heat exchanger (called a flux ring) was still made of Aluminum, the dissimilar metals were welded together but the stress of heating them caused the weld to eventually fail.

At first Jetboil had a notation on the sleeve that you could boil/heat water on high, or cook on low or melt snow on low flame. It was later revised to be for heating and boiling water only and on high flame. I had both types, the second one also added a bit more weight due to a heavier sleeve.

The reputation I heard is that Jetboil would not stand behind their Ti product and if the flux ring separated you were SOL and they would claim you ran the stove without anything in the pot. Many reports of normal usage and jetboil claiming it was used improperly and denying the warranty claim circulated on the internet including here.

I still have my Jetboil Ti which I used on my AT thru, I believe you can still get the Ti stove or pot if you look for them, but they will be through non-official channels such as ebay. It's a great pot, but not sure I would go for it again due to that issue which always is in the back of my mind.

Jetboil's venture into Ti pots, and light weight, seemed to take a turn away from that, the Mini-mo signaled Jetboils return to convenience and where they feel content to stay.

[CarlZ993]

All stove systems can work for you - white gas, canister (upright or remote-style), integrated stove systems (i.e. MSR Reactors, JetBoil, etc), alcohol, solid fuel, etc. Some are faster than others. Some are more fuel efficient. Some are lighter. But none are 'All of the above.'

On my AT hike in 2013, I saw mainly upright canister stoves (PocketRocket-style) and alcohol stoves. I used Zelph's Fancee Feast stove & was pleased with it for the most part. Much slower than canister or integrated stove systems.

If I were to do it again, I'd use an upright canister stove that had a fuel regulator (fuel flow was constant to the stove with dropping fuel pressure in the canister). I'd take my Soto Windmaster stove. It fits that mold and is the most wind resistant upright canister stove I've seen.

Good luck in your search for a stove system!

[Greenmountainguy]

Do you still have the Coleman Peak 1? Does it work? Would you care to sell it?
Thanks.
Wayne


A lot of people liked them, but they never did have good reviews. As I recall, the tank was huge enough for like a week of modest cooking for one. I guess that made it desirable.

[Greenmountainguy]

I retired a Coleman Peak 1 for much the same reason. I believe I still have an old Optimus 8R that I haven't fired up in years. The MSR Whisperlite is superior in all respects, IMO. Still a great stove for a group, or for deep winter, when I care much less about weight anyway.
I carried an 8R for years despite some dubious reviews. I mostly like it because of the stability. It never gave trouble lighting, although the boil time may have been mediocre.

[Greenmountainguy]

I started with an MSR pocket rocket and then got into alcohol stoves, first my own fancy feast stove and then Zelph's super cat can stove. If you are going to be alone, the alcohol stove is fine (and I may one day use it on my attempted thru hike), however, if you are with anyone who has a canister stove, you are going to be jealous of their fast boil times and simple use. Honestly, for the minimal weight difference, I think the canister stove with a titanium pot may be the better way to go. I use a snow peak pot and my MSR pocket rocket. I am sure there are multiple other areas where you can cut the weight to make up for the difference. I can not answer to the question of how available they are on a thru hike, however I would assume that the market will deliver what is desired, so as canister stoves become more popular, so will theiavailability of the canisters.

This is pretty much what has decided me. As much as I love the idea of a wood stove, the lack of fiddle time and the rapid start to boil time of a canister has pretty much sold me. Before posting I failed to do the math, an error which I have corrected.
The MSR line (or at least the ones I have) do not draw even for weight for a very long time as I calculate it, at least for three season use. I do not go out in winter.
Alcohol stove are attractive for the features folk have mentioned, and I thank the poster for making sense of the difference in weight between alcohol and water. The weight is attractive. I own a Trangia clone and I like it, although I have not cooked with it extensively. I hesitate because of the rather slower boil time.
Wood: I love tinkering with the stoves and although I have not taken them out for more than a day hike, they appeal, but sadly the weight does not balance for a considerable time out. The battery stove Sierra/ZZip has a bigger deficit due to the battery, not huge but present.
Canister: has become my choice in the cold light of day. I could have saved you all the trouble of responding had I merely sat down with a pad and pen, as I eventually did. I have used the stoves in the long-ago and found them sound, although expensive to operate. There is no denying the speed of lighting, speed of cooking and generally convenience of everything except small town supply. That fact recedes when I contemplate the cold reality of my inability to do more than a total of five days out. Most years I am not able to do that.
So, my fantasies of a very long distance thru hike recede into the background of grim reality. Up to five days, the canister wins. I just have to figure out my consumption and whether or not I can get by with the 4 oz. size canister.
Thank you all.

[Greenmountainguy]

Canister:..... I have used the stoves in the long-ago and found them sound, although expensive to operate. There is no denying the speed of lighting, speed of cooking and generally convenience of everything except small town supply. Up to five days, the canister wins. I just have to figure out my consumption and whether or not I can get by with the 4 oz. size canister.
Thank you all.
When I was much younger the financial hit of the canisters was significant and it loomed large in my consciousness. Now, realistically, it just does not matter when amortized out over a few days even. The stoves are cheap, as cheap as $7 from China and like $20 from the US.
Forget thru-hiking for the moment, just getting to the trail head and home, even in your car is realistically the biggest hit in a 3 to 5 day hike. You eat whether at home or on the trail, so you are basically even there. Your main expenditure is fuel for the stove, so how big is a $5 cartridge. Even in my distress circumstances it really is nill.

[Venchka]

A lot of people liked them, but they never did have good reviews. As I recall, the tank was huge enough for like a week of modest cooking for one. I guess that made it desirable.

The fuel bottle that came with my Peak 1 holds 15 ounces of white gas. Not exactly huge compared to the 29 ounce capacity of the fuel bottle I use with my Primus stove. Somewhere I read online that 1.5 ounces per day is a conservative estimate of white gas consumption. Looks like I could cook more food than I can carry.
Wayne


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[Hosh]

You might try an experiment to see what actual usage will be. I set up 1 liter h2o @ 50* in my 50* garage and then weight the canister before and after. For solo, I use about 10 grams per boil or less than 1oz per day assuming 2 hot meals.

I would think white gas would be more efficient not withstanding the fuel consumed while dinking around priming the stove.

[Turk6177]

I get 13 boils out of the smaller canister, if that helps.


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[Hosh]

That's about 8 grams per boil (liter?). Guessing your location, AZ has higher ambient and h20 temps. My experience was done with a SP Giga, now using BRS3000 so I so re-do

[Greenmountainguy]

I get 13 boils out of the smaller canister, if that helps.


How much water per boil? I would figure maybe for one person a pint to a pint and a half in the morning depending on menu and appetite (large hot beverage and decent sized hot cereal, alternative a bagel and scrambled egg or similar).,
For dinner a hot beverage again and a one pot meal, bring to a boil, let sit in a cozy. It might take two or three steps depending on what you are cooking, the long cooking ingredients first, then medium, and short cooking like cous cous last. Up to a liter total for dinner, even for two I guess.
So maybe a liter and a half for dinner for two big eaters, one liter for most of us solitary. The rest of the meal would be snacks and cold dessert.
Would the 4 oz. canister get me through 3 to 4 days with a menu like this?
Thanks.

[Venchka]

How much water per boil? I would figure maybe for one person a pint to a pint and a half in the morning depending on menu and appetite (large hot beverage and decent sized hot cereal, alternative a bagel and scrambled egg or similar).,
For dinner a hot beverage again and a one pot meal, bring to a boil, let sit in a cozy. It might take two or three steps depending on what you are cooking, the long cooking ingredients first, then medium, and short cooking like cous cous last. Up to a liter total for dinner, even for two I guess.
So maybe a liter and a half for dinner for two big eaters, one liter for most of us solitary. The rest of the meal would be snacks and cold dessert.
Would the 4 oz. canister get me through 3 to 4 days with a menu like this?
Thanks.

If you believe anything that you read on the internet, some folks claim 1-2 weeks from a small canister. I wouldn't know. Walmart only sells the middle and large size canisters and quart or gallon size white gas.
Wayne


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[Feral Bill]

I'm afraid mine might do the same which is why I asked. Thanks.
Svea 123 & Primus Multi-Fuel at the ready.
Wayne With a Svea, why would you need anything else, unless you are melting a lot of snow?

[Venchka]

With a Svea, why would you need anything else, unless you are melting a lot of snow?

I flew from Abu Dhabi to Vancouver and needed a stove and a new headset for my Gary Fisher bike. I found a bike shop next door to an outdoor shop. I bought the Peak 1 while the bike was being fixed. The 123 was at home.
No doubt I should use the Svea 123 and put the rest on the shelf.
Pondering.
Wayne


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[Hosh]

How much water per boil? I would figure maybe for one person a pint to a pint and a half in the morning depending on menu and appetite (large hot beverage and decent sized hot cereal, alternative a bagel and scrambled egg or similar).,
For dinner a hot beverage again and a one pot meal, bring to a boil, let sit in a cozy. It might take two or three steps depending on what you are cooking, the long cooking ingredients first, then medium, and short cooking like cous cous last. Up to a liter total for dinner, even for two I guess.
So maybe a liter and a half for dinner for two big eaters, one liter for most of us solitary. The rest of the meal would be snacks and cold dessert.
Would the 4 oz. canister get me through 3 to 4 days with a menu like this?
Thanks.

For me, 1 liter (4 cups) will cook my food (FBC w/cozy) and do 1 hot beverage. Approximately .5 liter for each. For this I figure 10 grams per meal. When with my wife and/or daughters I plan 13 grams per person per meal. If I need to simmer to fully rehydrate (tuna casserole) I will add 1-2 grams per meal.

I usually carry a 230 gram canister, mid size, camp above 9500' using a windscreen on a SP Giga at a low setting. I think canister stoves are more fuel efficient at a lower setting and for the alcohol stove users, I like listening to the sound longer.

A good way to get a grip on how your cooking style will consume fuel, measure each new canister, write weight (grams) on outside, use it, count liters, re-weight it and remark at home. Record cooking process, # people, environmental conditions etc. YMMV, but it should be pretty close.

[Greenmountainguy]

If you believe anything that you read on the internet, some folks claim 1-2 weeks from a small canister. I wouldn't know. Walmart only sells the middle and large size canisters and quart or gallon size white gas...


Yes, of course people throw out wild ideas and wild estimates which may not correspond with real world usage. For example, this past fall I boiled a large 1+ liter pot of soup and simmered on the stove (rather than a cozy) and used about 2 fluid oz. of white gas. I did this knowing I had an abundance of fuel and would be out in a few hours.
I think I could, if solitary and VERY conservative with fuel consumption (maybe no hot lunch, limited hot breakfast - bagel and drink or oatmeal and drink) I suspect I could easily get by with a small canister for the 11 meals that a week would be. (Assuming again, very conservative use with a cozy and no slow simmering.)
But...here it comes, how real is this consumption realistically with perhaps two people, one of whom occasionally wants a hot lunch or an extra hot beverage before bed? How about if one of them likes their food really hot, i.e. no "cozy simmering" but real simmering on the stove.
I guess without extensive testing, I will end up with a mid-size canister for maybe 3 or 4 days, with two people, Obviously then a small canister would work for the same amount of time with just me. I guess if I run out a day or two short of trail end, I could do a small twig fire to heat a beverage.

[Turk6177]

My 13 boils is on the AT not in AZ. It is a rough estimate. I usually boil a little over two cups per sitting depending on whether or not I am having a hot drink. It isn't exact science, but if you are using an MSR pocket rocket without a wind screen and you have boiled over two cups of water 13 times, consider any more boils you get a gift.


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[Greenmountainguy]

If you believe anything that you read on the internet, some folks claim 1-2 weeks from a small canister...


Yes, exactly, this is why I am spending so much time on the issue. It is possible depending on time and company that soup might be on the menu for lunch. Estimates of consumption vary WILDLY, One estimate has the large cartridge boiling 17 liters of water. My limited experience with cartridge stoves says this is probably impossible, at least with the old Bluet that I used. Running out of fuel would be sucky if you count on cooking, but packing an extra canister negates the weight advantages of a canister stove.

[ScareBear]

Yes, exactly, this is why I am spending so much time on the issue. It is possible depending on time and company that soup might be on the menu for lunch. Estimates of consumption vary WILDLY, One estimate has the large cartridge boiling 17 liters of water. My limited experience with cartridge stoves says this is probably impossible, at least with the old Bluet that I used. Running out of fuel would be sucky if you count on cooking, but packing an extra canister negates the weight advantages of a canister stove.

My Optimus CruxLite with a MSR Titan Kettle will use between 9 and 10 grams of fuel to boil 2.5 cups of water. This is at 72 degrees ambient, wind 0, wind screen in place, lid off, and 50 degrees water temperature. This will yield around 10 boils max for a 110g canister.

Of course, YMMV....

[Venchka]

My Optimus CruxLite with a MSR Titan Kettle will use between 9 and 10 grams of fuel to boil 2.5 cups of water. This is at 72 degrees ambient, wind 0, wind screen in place, lid off, and 50 degrees water temperature. This will yield around 10 boils max for a 110g canister.

Of course, YMMV....

I have a Primus Himalaya MFS that uses about the same amount of fuel, either white gas or canister.
Adventures in Stoving has figures for canisters and white gas that are slightly more conservative and probably better for trip planning with a bit of extra fuel for "what if" situations.
Wayne


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[msupple]

I did 600 miles on the AT a few years back and exclusively used a wood stove with no backup. I can only recall once or twice eating a cold dinner basically attributed to my own laziness of not wanting to deal with wet wood. My stove weighed in at 5 ounces and I never carried fuel. I personally found the routine of gathering wood to be relaxing and in reality only took a couple of minutes. My stove of choice at the time was the Bushbuddy. I liked the idea that I would never have to worry about finding fuel or running out of it. As an added bonus I always enjoyed having a mini campfire right next to my hammock after a good meal. Soot was never a problem as the fire is contained inside the BB and it doesn't have to be taken apart. It nested perfectly in my pot along with my bic and spoon. Wood burning's not for everyone. especially those in a hurry but the benefits outweighed the negatives for me. I could boil my water in about 5-6 minutes after the fire was started. I could gather the wood and light the fire in about ten minutes. My second choice would be a Pocket Rocket or something similar.

[lwhikerchris]

Alcohol all the way. It's cheap, quick, efficient, and no problems in the rain. Alcohol is multi-use as well and you can and will find it all over the place. People will even give it to you.

[Secondmouse]

Number of thru hikers = Number of stove+fuel opinions.
Wayne


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that's wrong...

[Secondmouse]

I find a pocket rocket is simple and does the trick quickly. Easy to find fuel
Your last option could also work

are you the Hiking Jim that has the Adventures in Stoving website?..

[Secondmouse]

depending on the efficiency of your canister stove, you can get a 1:2 ratio of grams of fuel to ounces of water...

[Thinspace]

Do you still have the Coleman Peak 1? Does it work? Would you care to sell it?
Thanks.
Wayne


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You can find them on EBAY

[Venchka]

I prefer not to visit eBay.
In this case I might make an exception.
Thanks.
Wayne


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[Mags]

Eh..doesn't matter on the AT assuming you are doing typical thru-hiker glop de jure boil and cook type meals. [1]

Toss a coin for alcohol vs canister. Pick one and you'll be fine.


[1] Unless there is an open flame ban such as last year.

[Turk6177]

I wouldn't sweat it too much. You will figure out how much fuel you are using after a canister is gone. You always have the option of using a wood fire if you run out of fuel so it won't be. Too Lang before you can get fuel again.


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[orthofingers]

[QUOTE=Greenmountainguy;2117773
Would the 4 oz. canister get me through 3 to 4 days with a menu like this?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

like someone said earlier, you often don't need to bring your water up to boiling temps. Ya can't really drink a hot beverage at 212 degrees F so why heat the water all the way to boiling. I suppose some freezer bag meals require boiling water or close to it but if you can get away with getting the water somewhere between warm and hot, you can save significantly on fuel, be it canister, alcohol, white gas or wood.

[Traillium]

like someone said earlier, you often don't need to bring your water up to boiling temps. Ya can't really drink a hot beverage at 212 degrees F so why heat the water all the way to boiling. I suppose some freezer bag meals require boiling water or close to it but if you can get away with getting the water somewhere between warm and hot, you can save significantly on fuel, be it canister, alcohol, white gas or wood.

+1 for sure!

[Cheyou]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/104621/#884545

thom

[Traillium]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/104621/#884545

Impressive simplicity!

[MtDoraDave]

like someone said earlier, you often don't need to bring your water up to boiling temps. Ya can't really drink a hot beverage at 212 degrees F so why heat the water all the way to boiling. I suppose some freezer bag meals require boiling water or close to it but if you can get away with getting the water somewhere between warm and hot, you can save significantly on fuel, be it canister, alcohol, white gas or wood.

Years ago, while car camping, I attempted this (due to impatience). I saw the water was steaming, and decided it was hot enough for instant whatever I was about to eat or drink. Turns out that water "steams" at pretty low temperatures when it's cold out. (I know it's not steam, but vapor or something, so lets don't turn this into an engineering thread) The water was barely lukewarm, and I had to start over.

So yes, assuming the water is filtered or treated, it doesn't have to come to a complete boil for most of our cooking needs, but when the water starts out in the mid 30 degree range, and the ambient temperature is in the mid 30 degree range, determining how long it takes to almost boil water will be trial and error.
With alcohol, use 1/2 oz or whatever. With a canister, use a stopwatch or timer?

This practice may be fun or a challenge to be fuel-frugal... but it sort of reminds me of turning off the water heater during the day to save electricity. I'd rather just carry enough fuel to do the job than try to be miserly about it. Different strokes for different folks; hyoh.

[QuietStorm]

Have and use both an Esbit and Pocket Rocket. Esbit needs a wind screen most of the time but usually easy to light and very light to carry and fit in my food bag.


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[Secondmouse]

I wouldn't sweat it too much. You will figure out how much fuel you are using after a canister is gone. You always have the option of using a wood fire if you run out of fuel so it won't be. Too Lang before you can get fuel again.


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or could run some tests to find out how much fuel his stove uses. 10gr of fuel is a safe estimate that gives a little leeway for outside circumstances. that's 10-11, 16oz boils/small canister.

my stove is a little more efficient than that (7-8gr/boil) and as said, I don't always need to bring the water to a boil, but there is wind and I usually want more than 16oz to eat and drink.

I feel confident a 110gr canister will last me 4-5 days and I keep a couple of the 14gr Esbit tabs in my cook bag just in case...

[Secondmouse]

Years ago, while car camping, I attempted this (due to impatience). I saw the water was steaming, and decided it was hot enough for instant whatever I was about to eat or drink. Turns out that water "steams" at pretty low temperatures when it's cold out. (I know it's not steam, but vapor or something, so lets don't turn this into an engineering thread) The water was barely lukewarm, and I had to start over.

So yes, assuming the water is filtered or treated, it doesn't have to come to a complete boil for most of our cooking needs, but when the water starts out in the mid 30 degree range, and the ambient temperature is in the mid 30 degree range, determining how long it takes to almost boil water will be trial and error.
With alcohol, use 1/2 oz or whatever. With a canister, use a stopwatch or timer?

This practice may be fun or a challenge to be fuel-frugal... but it sort of reminds me of turning off the water heater during the day to save electricity. I'd rather just carry enough fuel to do the job than try to be miserly about it. Different strokes for different folks; hyoh.

here's an easy way to extimate water temp - check to see if it's shrimp eyes (155-165), crab eyes (165-175), fish eyes (175-185), string or pearls (185-200), or DRAGON EYES! (200-212, full rolling boil)

http://teamasters.org/five-stages-of-bringing-water-to-a-boil/

[rocketsocks]

here's an easy way to extimate water temp - check to see if it's shrimp eyes (155-165), crab eyes (165-175), fish eyes (175-185), string or pearls (185-200), or DRAGON EYES! (200-212, full rolling boil)

http://teamasters.org/five-stages-of-bringing-water-to-a-boil/I like that!

[fastfoxengineering]

Honestly, I think more and more people are going to no cook methods because of stove/fuel logistics. It can be kinda of annoying running out of fuel. However, even foods that require hot water can usually be soaked or eating dry. I prefer alcohol over canister. But I keep moving more and more towards no cook meals for LD hiking. However, every so often... I really enjoy a hot drink in the trail. Those ultralight cook kits, around three ounces with a titanium pot are sounding more and more my style. A roughly 450ml mug and esbit or alcohol stove and a jar to soak stuff in sounds perfect for me for a thru hike. I could even just carry a 2oz titanium mug. And use a fire to heat up some water. However an ounce for an esbit setup sounds more convenient

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[Secondmouse]

Honestly, I think more and more people are going to no cook methods because of stove/fuel logistics. It can be kinda of annoying running out of fuel. However, even foods that require hot water can usually be soaked or eating dry. I prefer alcohol over canister. But I keep moving more and more towards no cook meals for LD hiking. However, every so often... I really enjoy a hot drink in the trail. Those ultralight cook kits, around three ounces with a titanium pot are sounding more and more my style. A roughly 450ml mug and esbit or alcohol stove and a jar to soak stuff in sounds perfect for me for a thru hike. I could even just carry a 2oz titanium mug. And use a fire to heat up some water. However an ounce for an esbit setup sounds more convenient

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my Toaks 900ml pot and Fancee Feast stove together only weigh 4.5oz.

1/2 ounce for a cut down LMF Ti spoon, 1oz for the 8fl oz fuel bottle plus whatever weight of alcohol you tote. not all that much...

[ScareBear]

Honestly, I think more and more people are going to no cook methods because of stove/fuel logistics. It can be kinda of annoying running out of fuel. However, even foods that require hot water can usually be soaked or eating dry. I prefer alcohol over canister. But I keep moving more and more towards no cook meals for LD hiking. However, every so often... I really enjoy a hot drink in the trail. Those ultralight cook kits, around three ounces with a titanium pot are sounding more and more my style. A roughly 450ml mug and esbit or alcohol stove and a jar to soak stuff in sounds perfect for me for a thru hike. I could even just carry a 2oz titanium mug. And use a fire to heat up some water. However an ounce for an esbit setup sounds more convenient

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Two words...

Crotch

Pot

http://gossamergear.com/wp/stoveless-camping-crotch-pot

[Secondmouse]

Two words...

Crotch

Pot

http://gossamergear.com/wp/stoveless-camping-crotch-pot

now there's a real appetizing thought!

and it's so tempting to change out the P for an R that discussions on this become more and more entertaining...

[country99]

my svea stove, bought in 1975, 42 years ago, works as good now as it did the day it was new. back then, that was the stove to have for backpacking. i think thats what I'm taking this year on my thru. a little heavy by todays standards, but it was fine back then. plus, if the wood is wet, just use a little fuel to get the fire started....

[Venchka]

my svea stove, bought in 1975, 42 years ago, works as good now as it did the day it was new. back then, that was the stove to have for backpacking. i think thats what I'm taking this year on my thru. a little heavy by todays standards, but it was fine back then. plus, if the wood is wet, just use a little fuel to get the fire started....

Mine is about that age, give or take a year. Ordered it from the REI catalog. According to internet information, the stove will boil water twice a day with 1 1/2 ounces of fuel.
Definitely a case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Wayne


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[bamboo bob]

Since one actually cooks so few calories I go stoveless. In the summer especially I find it's easy, lighter, no muss no fuss.

[Greenmountainguy]

I did 600 miles on the AT a few years back and exclusively used a wood stove with no backup. I can only recall once or twice eating a cold dinner basically attributed to my own laziness of not wanting to deal with wet wood. My stove weighed in at 5 ounces and I never carried fuel. I personally found the routine of gathering wood to be relaxing and in reality only took a couple of minutes. My stove of choice at the time was the Bushbuddy. I liked the idea that I would never have to worry about finding fuel or running out of it. As an added bonus I always enjoyed having a mini campfire right next to my hammock after a good meal. Soot was never a problem as the fire is contained inside the BB ... It nested perfectly in my pot... Wood burning's not for everyone.... I could boil my water in about 5-6 minutes after the fire was started. I could gather the wood and light the fire in about ten minutes. My second choice would be a Pocket Rocket or something similar.

Well, this is exactly what I have been wondering about. I really like the idea behind wood stoves. My battery powered ZZip/Sierra is not terribly light however and I do not currently use a commercial version of a Bush Buddy (that may change soon after I find work). I have played with my own versions of a smoke recycling stove such as the BB, but every model I have made (admittedly I have only used stainless) has been so heavy as to negate the weight savings. Yet...not having to ever worry or wonder about fuel is so terribly seductive. Many models of wood burner now have what I thought I had invented...an insert that burns alcohol. Since you pretty much need some kind of priming fluid/gel, that would seem to solve the problem. Carry a smallish bottle of alcohol and you are good if you are in a hurry or there is nothing but wet wood (I have seen rain everyday for a week just in the past year...that could put a crimp on everything). Liquid alcohol could serve as both primer and fuel.
For two to four day jaunts, the question is harder. The cartridge stoves have a good weight/cook ratio, although I am not sanguine about the heavy canisters. I guess the final judgment is simple: I will look at my menu and before making a judgment on a stove, simply weigh my pack without stove and judge accordingly.

[MtDoraDave]

Well, this is exactly what I have been wondering about. I really like the idea behind wood stoves. My battery powered ZZip/Sierra is not terribly light however and I do not currently use a commercial version of a Bush Buddy (that may change soon after I find work). I have played with my own versions of a smoke recycling stove such as the BB, but every model I have made (admittedly I have only used stainless) has been so heavy as to negate the weight savings. Yet...not having to ever worry or wonder about fuel is so terribly seductive. Many models of wood burner now have what I thought I had invented...an insert that burns alcohol. Since you pretty much need some kind of priming fluid/gel, that would seem to solve the problem. Carry a smallish bottle of alcohol and you are good if you are in a hurry or there is nothing but wet wood (I have seen rain everyday for a week just in the past year...that could put a crimp on everything). Liquid alcohol could serve as both primer and fuel.
For two to four day jaunts, the question is harder. The cartridge stoves have a good weight/cook ratio, although I am not sanguine about the heavy canisters. I guess the final judgment is simple: I will look at my menu and before making a judgment on a stove, simply weigh my pack without stove and judge accordingly.

Based on weight alone?



If you like the bush buddy/ solo stove, have you seen the link somewhere around here for the http://www.nomadicstovecompany.com/ ?

To me, it appears to be a solo stove with less weight. For the lighter models, it looks too delicate for me, but the heaviest one is still only 6.4 ounces. Lighter than the competition.

[Greenmountainguy]

Based on weight alone?

If you like the bush buddy/ solo stove, have you seen the link somewhere around here for the http://www.nomadicstovecompany.com/ ?

To me, it appears to be a solo stove with less weight. For the lighter models, it looks too delicate for me, but the heaviest one is still only 6.4 ounces. Lighter than the competition.
Well, I made a really tough model of a wood burner using a stainless steel Thermos bottle for material, but no matter how cunning I was in engineering, it is still too heavy. There are Chinese imports that sell on eBay and Amazon that are on the smallish side, but look good. They may be fragile.
Weight alone? Hmm... Well I suppose the menu I have already chosen will be a big factor too. I like the convenience of a canister but cringe at the weight of the cans. Still they are lighter than gasoline for jaunts up to maybe 3 or 4 nights, which is the most that I do. Still, the lack of need for fuel in a wood/alcohol stove is seductive. I guess I pick by the jaunt.

[Greenmountainguy]

Since one actually cooks so few calories I go stoveless. In the summer especially I find it's easy, lighter, no muss no fuss.
And no coffee, no tea, no hot chocolate no hot soup at a day's end.

[Greenmountainguy]

my svea stove, bought in 1975, 42 years ago, works as good now as it did the day it was new. back then, that was the stove to have for backpacking. i think thats what I'm taking this year on my thru. a little heavy by todays standards, but it was fine back then. plus, if the wood is wet, just use a little fuel to get the fire started....
I own in my collection the GI version of a Svea 123, I think it is called something like GS ! and has the advantage of burning automotive fuel if necessary. It is, however a bit heavier.

[CHILL_TX]

When factoring in actual weight of fuel, not JUST stove and fuel container, I don't feel there is much weight savings with alcohol. There would have to be a serious weight savings for me to give up the convenience of a canister stove.

I feel like the trend to go stove-less has a lot to do with so many people getting tired of cooking on their alcohol stove. For me, a hot meal can really be a mood booster after a long day.

[ggreaves]

If I were to do it again, I'd use an upright canister stove that had a fuel regulator (fuel flow was constant to the stove with dropping fuel pressure in the canister). I'd take my Soto Windmaster stove. It fits that mold and is the most wind resistant upright canister stove I've seen.

+1 on the regulator. It makes a huge difference in fuel economy and you can get the last dregs out of every canister. I have an MSR reactor. It's a little heavy but it'll boil water fast in high winds when most stoves won't boil at all. The stove and pot weigh almost 15 oz which is a little heavy but it's the fastest stove there is. And it is the most fuel efficient stove out there. Jetboil fans should try the MSR windburner. It's got the same radiant burner tech as the Reactor and it's windproof. I've heard great things about the Soto as well.

[Rhughesnc]

Thank you all for sharing your experience. I have both. The Esbit alcohol/solid fuel combo, great for overnight. For longer hikes, the canister just seemed to make more sense.

[Greenmountainguy]

I have obtained and tried (in town) a Chinese wood/alcohol stove. It works very well indeed and is well constructed of stainless, with carefully rolled edges and great engineering, but... This is a really big but the thing weighs 13 ounces. One online writer estimates that the savings in fuel does not equalize for something like 50 or 55 meals. That kills it for me on mostly weekend jaunts. I suppose it might be fun to play with though on some easy weekend trips.

[Greenmountainguy]

The fuel bottle that came with my Peak 1 holds 15 ounces of white gas. Not exactly huge compared to the 29 ounce capacity of the fuel bottle I use with my Primus stove. Somewhere I read online that 1.5 ounces per day is a conservative estimate of white gas consumption. Looks like I could cook more food than I can carry.

But that Peak I still has a big capacity when compared to my old 8R which had like an 8 ounce fuel tank.

[zelph]

Oh the value of "quiet" Shug has tried many a stove and zeroed in on one for his goto:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKAFAsPfC4s

[Rex Clifton]

Oh the value of "quiet" Shug has tried many a stove and zeroed in on one for his goto:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKAFAsPfC4s
Shug's not the be-all and end-all. He uses an imusa mug with the goofy handle attached! Good pot, but hacksaw off the handle and wrap with a fiberglass wick for crisesakes! For me, a white box style stove is better than the Fancy Feast.

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[zelph]

Shug's not the be-all and end-all. He uses an imusa mug with the goofy handle attached! Good pot, but hacksaw off the handle and wrap with a fiberglass wick for crisesakes! For me, a white box style stove is better than the Fancy Feast.

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That's too funny :-) Cut the handle off and add 3 times the weight by adding heavy fiberglass. ;-) And to top that off, one wrap of fiberglass will do ziltch for making it insulated so you can pick it up. Too funny!!! LOL

[Crossup]

I prefer a gas stove in general and of course like all choices there are aspects that are less than perfect. One of them with gas is its difficult to know precisely how much cook time you have for a given amount of fuel. Sure you will dial it in with experience but that isn't much help when you'd like to use the stove more than planned, or if its really windy increasing cook time etc.
So my answer to that is to have a backup stove and given that one can of course carry an extra cannister to cover the scenerios above, to me a back up stove has to have some advantage over doing that. One way is a biomass stove that weighs a fraction of the weight of a fuel cannister. There are a couple stoves that fit that bill, two that appeal to me are the Bushbox Ultralight and Qiwiz's Firefly. No doubt there are others too but both of these are under 3oz.

I chose the Bushbox because its triangular, that allows it to function as a windshield for my D-power burner(or other 3 leg units), it holds a Trangia alcohol(or others around that size) stove, Esbit or any solid fuel and of course burn biomass.
I also like that it has no need for wire supports or other fiddly trivets etc. for any size of cup, pot or different stoves or fuel types- it has 5 parts that snap together, none of which are of a size that would be easy to loose. Using all 5 parts its is incredibly rigid and stiff, and leaving off the small pot trivet its still up to any thing a camper would put on it.

Having two stoves has other advantages as well- I can heat water for a shower(yes I do that without going to town) while making dinner(I do my MH in a pot rather than pouch- that way I can use part of a 2.5 serving pack as well as mix them(chili and spagetti, yum)), make tea or coffee/chocolate with a meal or my favorite make MH raspberrrys and cookie crumb desert. And while I have not done it yet, the wood stove is well suited to grill a steak vs messing up your burner with drippings, its as easy as wrapping a frozen steak in some foam insulation and eating that as the first meal out. Again, with two stoves I can have potatoes with it, both ready at the same time.

The only potential issues I see with the Bushbox is the metal is VERY thin so one needs to be careful assembling it to not get a cut- thats only going to happen if your not paying attention or have had wet softened hands from a day hiking in the rain

[Rex Clifton]

That's too funny :-) Cut the handle off and add 3 times the weight by adding heavy fiberglass. ;-) And to top that off, one wrap of fiberglass will do ziltch for making it insulated so you can pick it up. Too funny!!! LOL
Almost as funny as charging $20 for a cat food can.

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[jjozgrunt]

here's an easy way to extimate water temp - check to see if it's shrimp eyes (155-165), crab eyes (165-175), fish eyes (175-185), string or pearls (185-200), or DRAGON EYES! (200-212, full rolling boil) http://teamasters.org/five-stages-of-bringing-water-to-a-boil/

So now I need to carry a shrimp, crab, fish some pearls and a dragon eye with me. Judging how hot the water is is getting heavy and after 5 months will be pretty smelly.

[cmoulder]

Perhaps take one stove and have a twig fire as your backup?

40862

Or, if using canister and a BRS-3000T, carry a .9 oz 'repair kit' in the form of another BRS-3000T. :)

(Prolly mentioned previously but I didn't want to read thru the whole thing again.)

[zelph]

Almost as funny as charging $20 for a cat food can.

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Who dat? Who dat?

[biloute]

For those of you who might be interested (and I apologize if someone’s mentioned this, but I haven’t read through all the multiple pages yet) I was in contact today with MSR about upgrading my stove. Apparently it’s possible to upgrade a Whisperlite International with the stamped legs (not wire legs) with a conversion to the Whisperlite Universal. This would allow you flexibility to carry the bottle of fuel (white gas, kerosene, or gasoline) or use the stove with a canister. It’s only $35 plus shipping one way in the US and Canada. They do the conversion and send it back to you. You’d have to contact a representative to inquire if you’re in any other country.

[Greenlight]

Caldera cone ti-tri with a starlight burner. It can use alcohol, esbit, or biomass. One of my best hiking purchases. Expensive? Yup. Worth every penny.


Here it is, as simply as I can state it: what stove would you recommend for a distance hiker that does not expect mail drops?
I once, decades ago used the first MSR white gas stove and it is still going strong, The fuel issue however advocates against it, I do not want to carry huge quantities of fuel and I doubt small amounts can be bought en route.
I have an MSR multi-fuel, but the issues above still obtain.
A canister stove, like an MSR Pocket Rocket. The light weight intrigues, but the fuel canisters are expensive and I would think, hard to find in small town stores. The weight savings would also seem dubious given the weight of the canisters and the need to pack extras and empties as well.
I have a Sierra ZZip stove I have played with but never taken long distance. I am put off by the mess and the inability to quickly make a beverage and get going in the morning.
Some version of the Solo stove (actually a Forfar Stove) that also allows an alcohol option. I could use the alcohol for a quick beverage and alcohol is easy to find everywhere.
I am leaning toward the last since I can use twigs at night, do not have to worry about a battery dying and can fall back on alcohol.
What do you think? For what it is worth, I do not ever want to carry more than 5 days food. That is pushing my 30 lbs. limit pretty good.
Thoughts?
Thanks

[1azarus]

41071This is clearly a conversation that should take place around a campfire.