Evazote foam for slippery surfaces

[G-FOURce]

So, I have read that Evazote foam (the material in Gossamer Gear's ThinLight pad) does well as an anchoring layer between a silnylon floor to keep your sleep pad from sliding all over the place. Does anyone have any actual, first-hand experience with this combination? If so, what has your experience been specific to the issue of using this material to keeping your sleeping pad in place? I have a Katabatic Gear Bristlecone bivy and the SMD Serenity net tent and both floors utilize the ridiculously slippery silnylon. I want to solve for this problem so I can quit schlepping in my BA Fly Creek UL1 and use either of these shelter solutions with a ZPacks Hexamid tarp to further reduce my base weight.

Thanks!

[MuddyWaters]

I dont have a problem in serenity with xlite, at all
Only a couple inches possible either way due to narrow width. My raingear is normally under pad too. Use a wide pad and it has no room to move. The xlite surface is tackier than say a prolite, and less prone to slip. My prolites have grip dots textured bottom., that was a f in horrible concept by some idiot at cascade. What it did was reduce suface contact and make pads slide worse , imo.

Evazote is grippy. Its frustrating to use for structure inside pu coated frameless pack because it dont want to slide in. Ive used it under xlite on cuben, but cubens not slippery really. I think it still will slide some on sil. The sitpad i use for legs does , its gg nitelite. Buts its different than the thinlite. Thinlite doesnt hold shspe, has open pore surface. The nitelite has closed pore surface and rubbery feel and holds rolled shape.

[G-FOURce]

I dont have a problem in serenity with xlite, at all
Only a couple inches possible either way due to narrow width. My raingear is normally under pad too. Use a wide pad and it has no room to move. The xlite surface is tackier than say a prolite, and less prone to slip. My prolites have grip dots textured bottom., that was a f in horrible concept by some idiot at cascade. What it did was reduce suface contact and make pads slide worse , imo.

Evazote is grippy. Its frustrating to use for structure inside pu coated frameless pack because it dont want to slide in. Ive used it under xlite on cuben, but cubens not slippery really. I think it still will slide some on sil. The sitpad i use for legs does , its gg nitelite. Buts its different than the thinlite. Thinlite doesnt hold shspe, has open pore surface. The nitelite has closed pore surface and rubbery feel and holds rolled shape.

Thanks, Muddy! A little more for you...

If it helps, I use one of the Big Agnes systems bags (the ones with the integrated pad sleeve) so the bag itself would actually be in contact with the floor surface, not the pad (I omitted that originally b/c I thought it was immaterial to the conversation, though now I'm thinking it may be material <-- no pun intended). I haven't actually tried my bag/pad combo in the Serenity yet, but the floor material feels almost identical to the floor of my Bristlecone and I've tried the bag/pad in there and it's slicker than snot on a doorknob.

I am trying to find a suitable material that will grab and hold my bag and the floor simultaneously so that I'm not sliding all over hell 'n creation (I toss/turn a lot during sleep) so that I don't end up pushing up against a wall, contorting the shape of the shelter, wetting my bag and/or compromising the shelter seams. If the ThinLight or NightLight materials will work for me then the weight penalty is minimal and I find them a better solution b/c I don't want patches of silicone scattered about that will attract and hold dirt. Which of the two materials do you think would work better for my application?

Personal Observation: One downside to GG is that I am not a fan of retailers who won't speak directly to their customers (GG only allows contact via email). I was able to find their phone number, even though they don't list one on their website, but it goes directly to a voicemail system that refers you to their website. It does allow you to leave a message, but I opted not to do since they clearly are attempting to avoid speaking with their customers. If anyone knows of a source for a solution that is more customer-oriented then please let me know that, too. I am not taking a hardline stance against GG, but if they have competition out there who don't put up a barrier b/w themselves and their customers then I'd prefer to explore that option. Just my preference, folks... Not bashing GG gear or what they provide.

[MuddyWaters]

No matter what, if not on flat ground you will slide, end up against mesh.

[G-FOURce]

No matter what, if not on flat ground you will slide, end up against mesh.

I understand that, Muddy, but my bag slides a lot even on the carpet in my den! :-) I rarely sleep on steep grades when I backpack, or even moderate grades, so I am just looking for a suitable solution for reasonably level ground. I'm starting to think there is none...

[Dogwood]

So, I have read that Evazote foam (the material in Gossamer Gear's ThinLight pad) does well as an anchoring layer between a silnylon floor to keep your sleep pad from sliding all over the place. Does anyone have any actual, first-hand experience with this combination? If so, what has your experience been specific to the issue of using this material to keeping your sleeping pad in place? I have a Katabatic Gear Bristlecone bivy and the SMD Serenity net tent and both floors utilize the ridiculously slippery silnylon. I want to solve for this problem so I can quit schlepping in my BA Fly Creek UL1 and use either of these shelter solutions with a ZPacks Hexamid tarp to further reduce my base weight.

Thanks!

Have you ever had a rain or snow event using the Bristlecone Bivy inside the Serenity net tent with it's 8" high bathtub surround? :-?

If you have the Hex tarp without the mesh floor than I'd say yes get one of GG CCF pads or similar possibly in the 1/8 - 1/4 " or one longer at that thickness sold by others more than 59 1/4" as this will address you sliding around and also could be your ground sheet. Saving wt was mentioned as one of your aims.

I've used both those GG thickness pads over a silny floor as well as several other CCF pads and they do help slipping off particularly in the 1/4" thickness or thicker which has less tendency to bunch up than the 1/8" CCF pads. BUT, whenever I use a CCF pad it's not primarily to keep from slipping around. It's added insulation to a inflatable pad combination and/or possibly to add protection from deflation of the inflatable pad or I'm possibly using just a single CCF pad as my only sleeping pad. The latter might be something to explore to keep things simpler if sleeping comfort, warmth, and volume of the CCF pad is acceptable.

You did not mention what your sleep pad was. I use a bivy and tarp a lot. It's my goto shelter preference. I find with the MLD Superlight and Ti Goat WR bivies w/ silny floors placing a Neo Air X Lite inside the bivy keeps me from sliding around as much. I'm a toss and turner side to side sleeper. In a MLD Superlight bivy w/ a cuben floor I took the $ hit but saved wt and very nicely, as Muddy Waters said, the cuben fiber bottom is not as slippery. Putting the inflatable inside the bivy also helps heat the air up inside and lessens heat loss which has a greater warmth factor for an inflatable pad.

Lastly, although I've always found ways not to have to do this, get some McNetts Seam Grip and place 6-8 SMALL flattish dabs on the inside silny floor of a tent that can help. BUT still if you have the silny bottom bivy outside a pad like atop a Neo Air you may slide off the top of the inflatable. Read further why I think that happens and possible solutions.

And, FWIW, although I assume you are referring to something like a inflatable Neo Air as your sleep pad, sleep pads with waffle like/small diamond shaped cambers, wavy/V shaped, or pleats parallel(long ways) on the top I tend to slip off of less AND can do a good job of capturing and heating up air. The Neo Air XLite, despite it's current UL popularity, isn't the only light wt/UL inflatable pad option. Might look at some of the Klymit X frame type pads when coupled with something like a 1/8 CCF foam pad which can offer some worthy different sleeping pad approaches at possibly similar or LESS wt for the combo then some of the NeoXLite perpendicular pleat approaches. Same with Big Agnes Core/Q Core inflatable or Exped mat designs. Cascade Designs has it Evolute series too. All these designs don't have the deep pleats that are perpendicular to your sleeping direction as the Neo Air Xlite/XTherm series which are also rather thick inflatables that lends itself to a teetering on a pedestal type feeling where toss and turners/side sleepers like myself can slip off. *Reducing how much the NeoAir is inflated helps me stay more centered on the inflatable pad and can result in less slipping around.

Also, might consider a wider inflatable that in itself would offer greater friction of surface area AND possibly more wiggle room while still staying on the inflatable. FWIW, although I initially thought it insane to risk permanently destroying such a pricy pad, a wide width Neo Air Xlite at 25" x 77" can be reduced in length. The 25" wider version possibly shortened to better address your height, sleeping position, and reduce pad wt inside the 26" Serenity net tent might be a good option to lessen the sliding around. There are several vids on line to demonstrate how to do it.

Now, you have some added options to consider. :)

[Dogwood]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-2-1-2-in-x-60-ft-Value-Roll-of-Rug-Gripper-Anti-Slip-Tape-for-Small-Indoor-Rugs-50-582/204067753?gclid=CjwKEAiA-rfDBRDeyOybg8jd2U4SJAAoE5XqrlNdYfVg00V_dYVASgCYi7r p-X6yWdatRdnf2Eli5xoCRuDw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


One side is sticky, which you'd stick to the bottom of you Bristlecone Bivy and/or BA bag with the sleeve, the other side is just grippy. Three or four 20-24" long strips attached to the undersides two up near your torso, one near your hips or knees, and one by the feet. It also comes in wider and longer full sheets in the flooring department to hold carpet runners in place.

[MuddyWaters]

You could put spare gear on sides of pad too to limit.

If ground isnt flat i usually sleep sideways to the mild slope direction and put tips of shoes under pad edge to elevate it and stop my torso from going downhill . Keeps me out of net too....mostly. I cant stand sleeping with elevated head or feet.

[Miguelon]

I cut down the evolite foam to use as a sit pad. Folding it over and over again accordion style, it has some give to it. Thus I'm testing it out as a sit pad and as the stuffing for my pillow.

Miguelon

[G-FOURce]

Have you ever had a rain or snow event using the Bristlecone Bivy inside the Serenity net tent with it's 8" high bathtub surround? :-?

If you have the Hex tarp without the mesh floor than I'd say yes get one of GG CCF pads or similar possibly in the 1/8 - 1/4 " or one longer at that thickness sold by others more than 59 1/4" as this will address you sliding around and also could be your ground sheet. Saving wt was mentioned as one of your aims.

I've used both those GG thickness pads over a silny floor as well as several other CCF pads and they do help slipping off particularly in the 1/4" thickness or thicker which has less tendency to bunch up than the 1/8" CCF pads. BUT, whenever I use a CCF pad it's not primarily to keep from slipping around. It's added insulation to a inflatable pad combination and/or possibly to add protection from deflation of the inflatable pad or I'm possibly using just a single CCF pad as my only sleeping pad. The latter might be something to explore to keep things simpler if sleeping comfort, warmth, and volume of the CCF pad is acceptable.

You did not mention what your sleep pad was. I use a bivy and tarp a lot. It's my goto shelter preference. I find with the MLD Superlight and Ti Goat WR bivies w/ silny floors placing a Neo Air X Lite inside the bivy keeps me from sliding around as much. I'm a toss and turner side to side sleeper. In a MLD Superlight bivy w/ a cuben floor I took the $ hit but saved wt and very nicely, as Muddy Waters said, the cuben fiber bottom is not as slippery. Putting the inflatable inside the bivy also helps heat the air up inside and lessens heat loss which has a greater warmth factor for an inflatable pad.

Lastly, although I've always found ways not to have to do this, get some McNetts Seam Grip and place 6-8 SMALL flattish dabs on the inside silny floor of a tent that can help. BUT still if you have the silny bottom bivy outside a pad like atop a Neo Air you may slide off the top of the inflatable. Read further why I think that happens and possible solutions.

And, FWIW, although I assume you are referring to something like a inflatable Neo Air as your sleep pad, sleep pads with waffle like/small diamond shaped cambers, wavy/V shaped, or pleats parallel(long ways) on the top I tend to slip off of less AND can do a good job of capturing and heating up air. The Neo Air XLite, despite it's current UL popularity, isn't the only light wt/UL inflatable pad option. Might look at some of the Klymit X frame type pads when coupled with something like a 1/8 CCF foam pad which can offer some worthy different sleeping pad approaches at possibly similar or LESS wt for the combo then some of the NeoXLite perpendicular pleat approaches. Same with Big Agnes Core/Q Core inflatable or Exped mat designs. Cascade Designs has it Evolute series too. All these designs don't have the deep pleats that are perpendicular to your sleeping direction as the Neo Air Xlite/XTherm series which are also rather thick inflatables that lends itself to a teetering on a pedestal type feeling where toss and turners/side sleepers like myself can slip off. *Reducing how much the NeoAir is inflated helps me stay more centered on the inflatable pad and can result in less slipping around.

Also, might consider a wider inflatable that in itself would offer greater friction of surface area AND possibly more wiggle room while still staying on the inflatable. FWIW, although I initially thought it insane to risk permanently destroying such a pricy pad, a wide width Neo Air Xlite at 25" x 77" can be reduced in length. The 25" wider version possibly shortened to better address your height, sleeping position, and reduce pad wt inside the 26" Serenity net tent might be a good option to lessen the sliding around. There are several vids on line to demonstrate how to do it.

Now, you have some added options to consider. :)

Thanks for the response, Dogwood. Here is more information based on your comments that I've highlighted in bold font.

> I would never use the Bristlecone in concert with the Serenity - I would only use one or the other. The silnylon of the bivy against the silnylon of the net tent seems like a recipe for a nightmare of a slip-and-slide
> My Hexamid does not have mesh - it's just the tarp
> I don't need more insulation b/c I use a Z-Lite on top of my insulated air mattress. I am only seeking an anchor layer b/w my sleeping bag and shelter floor to stop from sliding all over the place
> My pad is a Big Agnes Q-Core SLX
> I agree that cuben is less slippery, but that point is moot since I am trying to solve for the floor material in the two specific shelters I already own
> I am not considering a wider inflatable for two reasons: 1) the air mattress itself won't be in contact with the ground; 2) my bag's integrated pad sleeve only accepts 20" wide pads

I went ahead and ordered a ThinLight from GG. For $18 it's worth a shot...

[G-FOURce]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-2-1-2-in-x-60-ft-Value-Roll-of-Rug-Gripper-Anti-Slip-Tape-for-Small-Indoor-Rugs-50-582/204067753?gclid=CjwKEAiA-rfDBRDeyOybg8jd2U4SJAAoE5XqrlNdYfVg00V_dYVASgCYi7r p-X6yWdatRdnf2Eli5xoCRuDw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


One side is sticky, which you'd stick to the bottom of you Bristlecone Bivy and/or BA bag with the sleeve, the other side is just grippy. Three or four 20-24" long strips attached to the undersides two up near your torso, one near your hips or knees, and one by the feet. It also comes in wider and longer full sheets in the flooring department to hold carpet runners in place.

If the ThinLight doesn't hold well enough on its own, I may try adding a few strips of this to it for extra grip. Thanks.