Bear repelent option??

[IroquoisArcher]

Hi everyone. New here and more of a do-it-yourselfer but lurking and trying to find out more.
This is just a "wanting to know but not planning on doing it" question.
Years ago I read somewhere that instead of using pepper spray as a ber deterent that an option was using the 20' hornet/wasp spray. Reasons were something like longer range and being able to aim better (probably a negative?) where pepper spray tended to be a closer range and possibility of blowing back into yourself and basically doing its work on you.
Like said not planning on using it but just something always wondered about.

[Engine]

Hi everyone. New here and more of a do-it-yourselfer but lurking and trying to find out more.
This is just a "wanting to know but not planning on doing it" question.
Years ago I read somewhere that instead of using pepper spray as a ber deterent that an option was using the 20' hornet/wasp spray. Reasons were something like longer range and being able to aim better (probably a negative?) where pepper spray tended to be a closer range and possibility of blowing back into yourself and basically doing its work on you.
Like said not planning on using it but just something always wondered about. Pepper spray has been tested and proven effective, anything else would be a gamble. But if you're talking about the AT, there is no need for bear spray.

[MuddyWaters]

Interesting
head up to glacier national park, or yellowstone, and give it a try
report back

bear spray makes a cloud, to compensate for lack of accuracy. It is also doesnt do permanent damage to bear

can you spray a charging grizzly in his eyes or up his nose with a stream?

Ill just say it , stupid idea all the way around.

[ScareBear]

It's not meant to be a funny video...but....you've gotta see it to believe it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asaj-hN-pSM

[ScareBear]

And, the absolutely funniest video on bears, humans, bear spray and...kayaks....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnx4M293oU

[Five Tango]

I believe the Hornet Spray is really a deterrent for human attack as I read somewhere that it works on people.It says on the can of Bear Spray that it causes blindness in humans.Therefore you would be subject to civil suit for using a chemical inconsistent with its recommended use.However,you might be able to plead that you thought a person was really The Green Hornet and get off on an insanity plea.:banana

[FreeGoldRush]

Hi everyone. New here and more of a do-it-yourselfer but lurking and trying to find out more.
This is just a "wanting to know but not planning on doing it" question.
Years ago I read somewhere that instead of using pepper spray as a ber deterent that an option was using the 20' hornet/wasp spray. Reasons were something like longer range and being able to aim better (probably a negative?) where pepper spray tended to be a closer range and possibility of blowing back into yourself and basically doing its work on you.
Like said not planning on using it but just something always wondered about.

Treat this like you would any other hiking related concern: Find examples where people used this technique to their advantage. If you cannot find any examples then be very careful in assuming you will be the first. This is also a good way to consider food options, gear options, or whether or not discharging a firearm on the trail will create a benefit for you.

I'm just going to make a wild guess that carrying a can of hornet spray will earn you an interesting trail name and nothing more.

[IroquoisArcher]

Guess just wondering questions shouldn't be asked.
Just in case you're wondering no I wasn't planning on carrying anything like that or pepper spray...don't see how you'd be able to get it out in time anyways. Yes I've camped overnight in the Beartooth-Absarorika wilderness and also nearby around Bozeman, MT and never had any thought of bear attacks even though we did get a 400 pounder (during hunting season) plus camp down near Lock Haven and have pics. on our game cameras 50 yards away while we're sleeping outside, and one of them being a mama with 4 cubs.
So like had said was just something had read or heard about in some magazine guess it was and just always wondered if it had any merit, if anyone had ever heard of it.

[GoldenBear]

http://articles.extension.org/pages/70030/6-reasons-why-wasp-spray-is-not-a-substitute-for-pepper-spray

Executive summary: pepper spray is an irritant at a level designed to convince a bear to stop moving towards you, wasp spray is a neuro-toxin at a level designed to kill wasps. Against a charging bear, the latter will have little or no effect.

One more thing to consider: you can use wasp spray to hit a nest eight meters away because the nest is standing still. If you shoot a small stream of a liquid at a MOVING target, and that target moves a few centimeters away from where you were aiming the stream, then the liquid you streamed is completely worthless for protection. The whole POINT of wide dispersal in bear sprays is that you generally CAN'T aim accurately when a grizzly is charging you.

[Time Zone]

But if you're talking about the AT, there is no need for bear spray.

Bradley Veeder says hello.

[Engine]

Bradley Veeder says hello.
And just exactly how would bear spray have helped his situation? If you would like to test it by discharging a can of bear spray inside your tent I would be more than happy to sit by and watch.

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[gpburdelljr]

Just learn karate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU

[Time Zone]

And just exactly how would bear spray have helped his situation? If you would like to test it by discharging a can of bear spray inside your tent I would be more than happy to sit by and watch.

Happy, eh?

IMO your question is not very relevant, because it focuses on a prior attack, and does not generalize factors that might be more relevant in a future attack. Even then, consider the particulars of this attack - the tent got shredded (spraying would not be in a fully enclosed space); the bear returned (opportunity to be o/s tent and spray bear then); and, does it matter so much if you get some capsacin exposure if by doing so, you can get the bear to stop attacking and leave?

My overall point is that the AT is not a bear attack-free zone, and it might have done him some good to have it at that time. I was merely disagreeing with your second assertion. [Your first one, regarding anything but bear spray, such as wasp spray, I agree with.] I carry bear spray in bear country, even though historically, attacks have been rare. There are some indications that they are getting a bit less rare, and some reasons to suspect this trend will continue. One facet of HYOH is that you can choose your level of assumed risk. You can go without a compass and map on the AT, and usually you won't need them. Some people say they don't purify their water. etc.

[Engine]

Happy, eh?

IMO your question is not very relevant, because it focuses on a prior attack, and does not generalize factors that might be more relevant in a future attack. Even then, consider the particulars of this attack - the tent got shredded (spraying would not be in a fully enclosed space); the bear returned (opportunity to be o/s tent and spray bear then); and, does it matter so much if you get some capsacin exposure if by doing so, you can get the bear to stop attacking and leave?

My overall point is that the AT is not a bear attack-free zone, and it might have done him some good to have it at that time. I was merely disagreeing with your second assertion. [Your first one, regarding anything but bear spray, such as wasp spray, I agree with.] I carry bear spray in bear country, even though historically, attacks have been rare. There are some indications that they are getting a bit less rare, and some reasons to suspect this trend will continue. One facet of HYOH is that you can choose your level of assumed risk. You can go without a compass and map on the AT, and usually you won't need them. Some people say they don't purify their water. etc.
My response was perfectly relevant to your example. But moving on, given that the odds of an attack by a human far outweigh the odds of a bear attack, should we all carry concealed?

Show me one documented case where bear spray alleviated a bear related problem on the AT.

When I'm hiking Yellowstone, you bet I carry spray. But I have had literally dozens of encounters with black bears in the east and they have all been a positive and appreciated experience.

Could something bad occur? Of course, but I'm hundreds of times more likely to die in a car accident driving to the trailhead, than to even be scratched by a bear...

Fear mongering only perpetuates the misunderstanding among new hikers.

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[Christoph]

I would think the range (specifically) of the hornet/wasp spray might be too great. I would much rather a shorter distance cloud than a long distance spray purely for the fact that if the bear is bluff charging, you might just p!ss him off to the point of no return.

[Traillium]

When I'm hiking Yellowstone, you bet I carry spray. But I have had literally dozens of encounters with black bears in the east and they have all been a positive and appreciated experience.

Could something bad occur? Of course, but I'm hundreds of times more likely to die in a car accident driving to the trailhead, than to even be scratched by a bear...


+1

Thanks, Engine!

[Feral Bill]

It may be that Hornet spray would cause permanent injury to a bear, creating an especially dangerous beast. Lose-lose.

[orthofingers]

Bear deterrent, human deterrent . . . Bring along an old C-melody saxophone on your hike.

[devoidapop]

Kind of seems cruel, ineffective, and bound for disaster. If you accidentally spray yourself or partner with pepper spray it sucks, but it washes out. Bug spray requires immediate medical attention.

[MtDoraDave]

No.
Read the can of wasp spray, it says something like -it is a violation of FEDERAL law to use this product other than directed.
.
So, not only is it bad for the reasons already mentioned, but you'll be charged with a felony after you get mauled by a pissed off bear that may be blinded for life...
Just yell at them.


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[Traveler]

Pepper spray has been tested and proven effective, anything else would be a gamble. But if you're talking about the AT, there is no need for bear spray.

Speaking in absolutes is a bit of a gamble. Bear spray has proven rather effective to stop unwanted bear approaches, regardless where it is used. Its rather like a pistol, some people want to carry a gun to feel safe, others carry bear spray to feel safe. For me, I try to hike with people who can't run quite as fast.

While I would agree that its not likely bear spray will be needed on the AT, saying it will never be needed leaves no room for the exceptions.

[Engine]

Speaking in absolutes is a bit of a gamble. Bear spray has proven rather effective to stop unwanted bear approaches, regardless where it is used. Its rather like a pistol, some people want to carry a gun to feel safe, others carry bear spray to feel safe. For me, I try to hike with people who can't run quite as fast.

While I would agree that its not likely bear spray will be needed on the AT, saying it will never be needed leaves no room for the exceptions.

You are abolutely correct in that an incident could occur, but when given the odds as I alluded to in a later post, carrying bear spray in unwarranted. If the rate of problem bear encounters were to rise along the AT corridor, I might change my stance. As the odds of encountering a problem rise, we tend to make more effort to avoid it, or protect ourselves from it. I wear a seatbelt in the car, a lifejacket on the boat (especially if I'm not operating the vessel), and I carry concealed when walking the streets. But modes of transportation and exposure to some members of society are far more likely to end badly than seeing a bear. Which is something we should all view qs a gift, not something to be feared. If we had grizzlies in the east, that would change my thinking...I know it does when I'm in their territory out west.

[Traveler]

You are abolutely correct in that an incident could occur, but when given the odds as I alluded to in a later post, carrying bear spray in unwarranted. If the rate of problem bear encounters were to rise along the AT corridor, I might change my stance. As the odds of encountering a problem rise, we tend to make more effort to avoid it, or protect ourselves from it. I wear a seatbelt in the car, a lifejacket on the boat (especially if I'm not operating the vessel), and I carry concealed when walking the streets. But modes of transportation and exposure to some members of society are far more likely to end badly than seeing a bear. Which is something we should all view qs a gift, not something to be feared. If we had grizzlies in the east, that would change my thinking...I know it does when I'm in their territory out west.

I can appreciate what you are saying, especially when comparing the eastern mountains with the west and the populations of Brown and Grizzly bears. That said, the numbers of bear encounters in the east are increasing and have been for a while. And while most of these encounters are not what I would consider dangerous, all have the potential to be just that depending on the circumstances. I think my point was more that the words, all, always, and never are perhaps the three most difficult words in the English language to defend.

I don't know of a useful risk comparative that can be useful here. Using auto or boat safety measures that have become law doesn't really stack up well. And interactive human encounters are uncountable over a week period of time. It really comes down to what makes one feel safe. Your risk tolerance is low with people so you carry a gun to address that. Some people have a low risk tolerance for bears and will carry spray to address that. Both are unlikely to be needed, neither can be easily dismissed when it comes to personal preferences.

[Engine]

... Your risk tolerance is low with people so you carry a gun to address that. Some people have a low risk tolerance for bears and will carry spray to address that. Both are unlikely to be needed, neither can be easily dismissed when it comes to personal preferences. I like the way you explained that, it puts your stance into better perspective for me. It appears my initial statement regarding not needing to carry bear spray would be better stated as "I don't feel the need to carry bear spray".

[saltysack]

And your worried about a lil bear.....Video: Large gator crosses Lakeland nature path
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/video-very-large-gator-crosses-lakeland-nature-path/484842041


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[swisscross]

And your worried about a lil bear.....Video: Large gator crosses Lakeland nature path
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/video-very-large-gator-crosses-lakeland-nature-path/484842041


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Alligator taste good!
That is a bunch of dinners.


Grizzlies sometimes need a little more convincing that their little brothers.
Seen some videos where multiple bursts were required to deter a grizzly. Any one know how a black bear reacts and would a small can, like key ring self protection, would suffice?

[Hosh]

And your worried about a lil bear.....Video: Large gator crosses Lakeland nature path
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/video-very-large-gator-crosses-lakeland-nature-path/484842041


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Let the discussion begin, is .45ACP big enough in gator country

Looks like it could swallow a Smart Car

[saltysack]

Let the discussion begin, is .45ACP big enough in gator country

Looks like it could swallow a Smart Car

I usually carry a 40cal Glock 27 on my Sup with lil clear nail polish around primer and lead to keep water out just in case(in a pelican box).....truly gators are like bears they aren't a real concern.........MOST of the time but warrant respect and distance when possible...they sure look smaller in the water....the old saying is that for every inch between it's nostrils to its eyes is 1' of body length.....that video sure looks 15' + too me.


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[saltysack]

Forgot...the gun not for the gators but the drunk rednecks on the air boats....


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[onecamper]

Consider bringing a dog.. :)

[GoldenBear]

> Consider bringing a dog

If you do, ABSOLUTELY keep it on a leash at ALL TIMES!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/22/he-might-look-small-but-he-did-something-awesome-to-save-his-owner-from-a-much-bigger-animal/

The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries told TheBlaze in an emailed statement that if the dog had been leashed in the first place, it might never have needed to defend its owner.
“After disturbing a family of bears, the dog chased after and began attacking the cubs,” the statement read. “As a result the sow charged at the man and focused her defense of cubs on him. ..."
The dog did NOT save the man from a bear attack, the unleashed dog almost got the man killed!

[saltysack]

> Consider bringing a dog

If you do, ABSOLUTELY keep it on a leash at ALL TIMES!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/22/he-might-look-small-but-he-did-something-awesome-to-save-his-owner-from-a-much-bigger-animal/

The dog did NOT save the man from a bear attack, the unleashed dog almost got the man killed!

Thought he was talking about to feed the gator.... [emoji38]sorry for the drift...


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[hikehunter]

THINGS YOU NEED TO MAKE A BEAR SPRAY AT HOME BEFORE YOU HIKE.


1. One gallon of 180 proof Jack Daniels (any label)
2. The hiker that "knows it all" you know the one that thinks he has all the answers.
3. That hiker that "snores" at the shelter; He may have been in the shelter 8 miles back, but you could still hear him.
4. The hiker that never shuts up, and talks all the time.
5. The A-hole driver that throws a half used cigerette at you when you are trying to hitch a ride.
6. The hikers that have no clue about LNT.
7. The hiker that asks if you could carry some items to the next town that have no use on the trail, but they want to send them home, as they cost a lot.
8. The hiker between you and the bear.


*add other items you feel may make it more effective.