View Full Version : Status of MTR for summer 2017 is on hold.
HooKooDooKu
01-17-2017, 00:49
For those planning a 2017 JMT hike...
From the Yahoo JMT news group, there is word that The Edison Co is planning on draining Florence Lake this summer.
MTR is currently not taking any reservations until they can learn more from a meeting scheduled later this month.
saltysack
01-17-2017, 07:17
You mean vvr?
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HooKooDooKu
01-17-2017, 12:43
No, that's not what the Yahoo message says.
Subject:
Status of Muir Trail Ranch for summer of 2017 is on hold temporarily due to planned draining of Florence Lake
Msg:
I just got an email from Muir Trail Ranch's owners. "The Edison Co is planning on draining Florence Lake this summer to work on the dam. They're scheduling a meeting with us sometime this month to give us more information.
We're not taking any reservations until we have more data.We just can't guarantee anything at the moment"
Note that it is 'Florence Lake' NOT 'Lake Thomas A Edison' being drained.
Without Florence Lake outside business to MTR would be very challenging. You normally take a boat to the far side of Florence to get to MTR.
HooKooDooKu
01-17-2017, 15:41
MTR also ferries the resupplies across the lake. So in a worst case senario, MTR won't be available for resupplies this year. (That's one of the outstanding questions posed to the person apparently in contact with MTR).
Given the snow load so far, draining a lake in the Sierras might be challenging.
Wayne
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Realistically, what is the impact of not using MTR as a resupply location? Inconvenience? Hardship? JMT hike killer?
I'm curious in case this reduces the JMT hiker numbers.
Wayne
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saltysack
01-17-2017, 19:36
No, that's not what the Yahoo message says.
Subject:
Msg:
Note that it is 'Florence Lake' NOT 'Lake Thomas A Edison' being drained.
My bad....I suffer from CRS....
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saltysack
01-17-2017, 19:44
20 miles more miles with out resupply to Whitney....speed up, carry more or a pita resupply....when I go again I'll skip mgr and check our vvr anyway.....
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imscotty
01-17-2017, 20:03
Realistically, what is the impact of not using MTR as a resupply location? Inconvenience? Hardship? JMT hike killer?
I'm curious in case this reduces the JMT hiker numbers.
Wayne
For an older, slower hiker like me, I would consider it an inconvenience. Leaving MTR my bear canister was packed to the max and I had the first day's meals outside. The last two days of that section to Whitney the rations were pretty lean. An extra twenty miles (from VVR) would make the food rationing even tighter.
I think this limitation will encourage some hikers to 'cheat' on the bear canister requirements.
If I was doing this section without MTR, I would consider a resupply at Onion Valley, but this option seems inconvenient to me compared to MTR. The Mount Williamson Hotel in Independence offers a shuttle, resupply and lodging package deal that may interest some. Here is the link...
http://mtwilliamsonmotel.com/resupply/
HooKooDooKu
01-17-2017, 22:24
Any resupply after MTR is expensive... it either cost you lots of money or lots of time. 20 miles extra without a resupply can require as much as two additional days of supplies for the average hiker. I too left MTR with a Bearikade Expedition fully loaded (and there is no legal canister that is larger).
There's no way I could have added two more days of supplies to my cannister... it would have meant ponying up the cost or going really lean those last 12 days for me.
MuddyWaters
01-17-2017, 22:36
Le post deux
MuddyWaters
01-17-2017, 22:38
I wouldnt use mtr if did it again.
As was I had 3 days food left when got to wp, and I had some short days due to rain.
Easily could have made it from vvr, or even reds meadow for that matter.
Lots of daylight, just use it
Vvr is the shizzle too. Great food and people. 3 meals, shower, bed, laundry, and left feeling like a million bucks.
Thanks all.
I don't need to go up Whitney. If that shortens the distance and food required, so much the better.
There also seems to be a pair of contrary experiences. Something to think about. Oh, and cut off Whitney and go north.
Wayne
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MuddyWaters
01-18-2017, 22:26
Thanks all.
I don't need to go up Whitney. If that shortens the distance and food required, so much the better.
There also seems to be a pair of contrary experiences. Something to think about. Oh, and cut off Whitney and go north.
Wayne
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People that struggle with the distance do so by choice.
Choice to carry a lot of weight
Choice to hike limited hours per day
Most people getting supplies packed in..dont want to carry food wt, they are carrying too much other crap...by choice.
I saw people done for day at 2 pm, or not starting till after 9 am
With a few xceptions due to altitude, its easier hiking than AT, probably 25% more miles possible on average.
So if do low average 12 mpd on AT, 15 is about what to expect on jmt.
At that pace...vvr is 9 days. But dont need breakfast day leaving vvr, or dinner getting to wp, so really 8.5 days food. Which fits in a bearikade expedition. With day 1 out, it fits in weekender.
If run short..can always hike out for resupply.
Thank you! I really appreciate your insight.
Wayne
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Realistically, what is the impact of not using MTR as a resupply location? Inconvenience? Hardship? JMT hike killer?
I'm curious in case this reduces the JMT hiker numbers.
Wayne
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I would use MTR over VVR every time. MTR is more convenient and a day later into a SoBo hike in the area with the longest carry. I wouldn't do VVR again, I found it to be an inconvient money trap.
I would use MTR over VVR every time. MTR is more convenient and a day later into a SoBo hike in the area with the longest carry. I wouldn't do VVR again, I found it to be an inconvient money trap.
Yeah, it is a bit of a money trap, but it was fun and the folks are real nice. Besides, the hike out via the Bear Creek Trail if FANTASTIC, lots of swimming opportunities.
HooKooDooKu
01-19-2017, 16:58
MTR is currently indicating they will find a way to deal with resupply buckets.
http://www.muirtrailranch.com/resupply.html
There you go. Entrepreneurs find a way to stay in business.
Well done Y'all!
Wayne
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MuddyWaters
01-19-2017, 21:39
I would use MTR over VVR every time. MTR is more convenient and a day later into a SoBo hike in the area with the longest carry. I wouldn't do VVR again, I found it to be an inconvient money trap.
Mtr better located for final stretch no doubt.
But its hard to agree vvr to be inconvenient when the ferry is running.
Money..yeah stuff costs in middle of no where. But food is very good typically. . Camping and tents are cheap, laundry is a couple dollars . Dinner, bkfast, lunch, laundry, private room, few snacks, and I dropped $210 in the 18 hrs I was there. Loved every $ of it too:).
Actually, I dropped $310, but not counting a night I reserved and paid in advance for, but walked away from. Simply didnt feel like I needed more rest, was ready to keep going. Gave room to someone else for free.
August W.
01-20-2017, 21:17
Heard yesterday that MTR has announced they will be providing resupply service again this year.
jacob_springsteen
01-21-2017, 00:41
There is the Mono Hot Springs PO but it is a ways away from the JMT ( hence you'd lose a day just getting there and hiking back):
http://www.monohotsprings.com/post-office/
Any resupply after MTR is expensive... it either cost you lots of money or lots of time...
Compared to what the AT or PCT resupply options? Those trails don't represent the norm for resupply options everywhere. The oodles of over analyzed near(5 miles or less) and on the AT resupply options are one of the factors that make resupply on the AT one of the most convenient LD trails to readily resupply and food supplement. Ask those who have been around extensively hiking in N. America. The AT's resupply options should not be considered as the standard for resupply capability to which other hikes are compared. ATers have it overwhelmingly convenient for resupplying.
Expensive resupply is also a relative term. Resupplying for stores in the well road(and rail?) connected grocery stores, Wally Worlds, gas stations, CG's, etc on the east coast doesn't involve the extensiveness of costs to have remote resupply locations continually stocked such as MTR and VVR do in the Sierra. For example, neither MTR or VVR have semi tractor trailer trucks of food that ship to their remote locations. Proprietors of these locations do shipping leg work themselves in pick ups, by boat, and by stock.
I would use MTR over VVR every time. MTR is more convenient and a day later into a SoBo hike in the area with the longest carry. I wouldn't do VVR again, I found it to be an inconvient money trap.
Relative again. VVR has a one free night to JMT and PCT thru-hikers at their location for a limited number. Easy and convenient to mail a box to VVR for a $25 handling, shipping, and SAFE BEAR PROOF storage cost that proprietors have to handle themselves in their own vehicles from many miles away, usually Fresno, and driven down a long low speed somewhat sketchy road. This is different for sending resupply boxes that can be directly mailed and delivered to locations via USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, etc. It's easy to mail a box here, get a LARGE FRESH FOOD cooked meal, shower, and laundry done and be on your way with as little as $40-45 TOTAL which includes the $25 shipping&handling of a resupply box. I've done it repeatedly in the last 10 yrs. Expecting all resupply locations on every trail or on every hike to handle free, with much inconvenience and some additional cost and time resources, is being unexpectedly hiker entitled. Stay off the phone and internet, abstain from much alcohol, rummage freely with some personal restraint through the often hiker barrels with free food, and the cost at VVR doesn't have to exorbitant.
You say VVR is a money trap. Have you ever stayed or tried to stay at MTR and eat to compare costs? I doubt it!!!:-? FWIW, MTR has always costs me more to mail a bucket and stay, IF IF there's availability to stay than VVR!!!
Another option is to mail a box to the Mono Springs PO down the road from VVR. While there check out Mono Hot Springs(small fee) and be on your way by hitching back to VVR(ferry or catch the trail around the back side of Lake Edison) or hitching back to the Bear Cr Tr. which again, as said, makes little sense unless you're a JMT purist, to hike up, over, and back down Bear Mt.
Hikes and trails don't exist equally as far as each one's personal resupply or otherwise convenience and ease of comfort. Adapt logistics and your hike rather than expecting otherwise which is very common for ATers and many east coasters. :rolleyes:
Going over Bear Mt is a somewhat major PUD without a long distance view which is easy to bypass on the Bear Creek Tr to either VVR or Mono Hot Springs. The road that services both is lightly used but never have more than 2 cars gone by without easily receiving rides. The road to VVR is a dead end road so everyone driving in the direction you're walking is very likely going to or right by where you want to go. Take either the Edison Lake Ferry from VVR or hike back to the JMT spur with a hearty rec to take the ferry ride rather than hike around the far side of Lake Edison. IMHO, the ferry(small pontoon or row boat) adds to the JMT hiking/thru-hiking experiences.
As Lyle said the Bear Cr Tr is a nice alternate with some large holdover breeder trout, a great sound of running water, and some nice small swimming holes.
I disagree with Jacob Springsteen that you have to "lose a day" employing Mono Hot Springs PO IF you use the Bear Cr Tr or aren't puritanical. FWIW, this is the scenic Sierra so no day is lost in the truest John Muir sense of the word. The thing gained is a greater Sierra experience. WOW, what NOT a lost! WHY do you want to hike the Sierra? To say you lived up to a supposedly heightened man made notion of some SMALL named segment of Sierra trails called the JMT? :-?
MTR also ferries the resupplies across the lake. So in a worst case senario, MTR won't be available for resupplies this year. (That's one of the outstanding questions posed to the person apparently in contact with MTR).
Unless MTR has recently reduced their resupply bucket shipping, handling, and SAFE Bear storage fee it has been $50 in the past. What makes MTR attractive for some is it's closeness to the JMT proper and the ignorance that which some choose to impose on others as to options. IF this yrs resupply buckets can't be ferried across Florence Lake this yr I would expect the resupply fee to be increased as MTR is also serviced by, and would have to, by stock making the MTR proprietors cost higher to ship in buckets.
MuddyWaters
01-21-2017, 21:21
Unless you get extremely lucky and get an open spot at mtr, (which wont happen), you have to make 2 night non refundable reservation at $300 , 6 + mo in advance...before you get jmt permit.....to do anything more than pick food up at MTR. If u want any real food, or a break. Or hot shower..VVR is the only game in town anymore. 10 yrs ago you could luck into a spot at MTR.
And honestly..trail to mtr is a 0.9 mile downhill horsetrail paved with baseball sized rocks. It sucks. Down and up. But 95% take the other route out sobo and skip several miles.
If you need it to avoid packed in resupply, use it. 95% do (guess).
I reckon if folks can manage to resupply at the Benchmark Ranch, then the MTR, VVR, MHS scenario should be a piece of cake.
Wayne
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Illusions about VVR being a money pit is often thrown around on sites like WhiteBlaze and elsewhere largely by east coast hikers familiar with the east coast's regional well documented most easy most anal-yzed resupply logistics that are regurgitated unsubstantiated fodder AND DEFINITELY so compared to MTR. VVR comparatively is a MUCH less financially costlier option if you are mailing a box/bucket, staying for the night(s), and/or availing oneself of several other services which MTR doesn't all allow one to do unless staying with a reservation or after making one. For example, try doing laundry or showering/bathing at MTR without a reservation. The services and goods available to those just picking up a resupply bucket at MTR are much curtailed compared to VVR.
Not down on MTR. But let's be fair in our comparisons and opinions.
MuddyWaters
01-21-2017, 22:03
If others are waiting, and they probably will be with current numbers, mtr also gives you the bums rush. Its not an oasis to relax, eat, and casually pack your cannister in the shade. It can be a bit of a zoo. Many there are discovering they cant fit but 5 days food into rented cannister, and they have 10. The others are grabbing stuff from buckets like kids at christmas. They will flat tell you..time to go, move, let these new people sit down.
If you have to work to pack cannister like most, dont plan on it working as well as at home.
Another JMT resupply option that few JMTers could avail themselves of is Parchers Resort at JMT SOBO mile 135 over Bishop Pass through Dusy Basin near South Lake one mile north off the Bishop Pass TH. The Resort holds boxes for $25 and has gradually increased backpacking food offering sold on premises over the yrs. For a JMT SOBOer willing to buy or mail at TM at mile 24 located on trail and not requiring a heavy food haul on the ascent out of YV and/or who is willing to make another quick supplement or full resupply at Red's Meadow Store the food haul carried to Mile 135 is broken up with much lighter wt food hauls. The only longer hike out is reduced to the one to Parchers which is a VERY SCENIC hike over Bishop Pass and throughs Dusy Basin. It has an awesome view out across LeConte Canyon along the ascent up to Dusy basin. Take 100 miles + 10 more for the hike back to teh JMT for really only one full resupply at the end of a SOBO when altitude acclimated and hiker strong. OVERALL this can make for not only a more scenic JMT thru-hike but perhaps a speedier one. :-?
For one capable of pulling off low 20 MPD JMT avgs this could mean only one full resupply.
If others are waiting, and they probably will be with current numbers, mtr also gives you the bums rush. Its not an oasis to relax, eat, and casually pack your cannister in the shade. It can be a bit of a zoo. Many there are discovering they cant fit but 5 days food into rented cannister, and they have 10. The others are grabbing stuff from buckets like kids at christmas. They will flat tell you..time to go, move, let these new people sit down.
If you have to work to pack cannister like most, dont plan on it working as well as at home.
MTR caters FIRST to those with paid reservations. The service offering of resupply bucket options and a place to MAYBE eat at the meal area with UTMOST concern to paying guests is the standard MTR practice. It is NOT a hang out and sprawl your pack explosion or resupply all over.
That's 100 mile total food going SOBO from Parchers Resort.
http://parchersresort.net
Parchers offers showers and a decent B'fast and dinner. Hiker rates apply and aren't all that bad if sharing a cabin/room. Parchers caters to many fisherman.
MuddyWaters
01-21-2017, 22:22
MTR caters FIRST to those with paid reservations. The service offering of resupply bucket options and a place to MAYBE eat at the meal area with UTMOST concern to paying guests is the standard MTR practice. It is NOT a hang out and sprawl your pack explosion or resupply all over.
Id say they ONLY cater to their paying customers, and are a bit brusk (out of necessity) with the people picking up resupply. Your paying for resupply pickup, not a place to hang out and relax, and they make it clear. They have tent and benches set up, and if you are early in morning, maybe no issue with few others there. Show up when busy, they will make it clear.
The old woman getting buckets when I showed up took a liking to me and we chatted a bit. Believe it or not, it seemed to have something to do with being covered up for sun exposure. Looking like you knew what you were doing. Like you belonged out there. She did not like the young kids wearing shorts and sunscreen.
Don't resupply. Problem solved.
Wayne
Ps:
Why should I cross New Mexico, Colorado and Utah in order to subject myself to so much grief and aggravation? Hey. Really?
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gwschenk
01-26-2017, 11:10
Unless you get extremely lucky and get an open spot at mtr, (which wont happen)... 10 yrs ago you could luck into a spot at MTR.
In 2013 we showed up at MTR and got a tent cabin, no problem. We had a great stay there. We had a nice stay at VVR as well, despite no ferry that year. Ugh! We camped for free, showered washed clothes and got a free beer. Don't worry though, they more than made up for the free beer.
Those places are expensive, but as has been pointed out, very remote.
Anyone who thinks that MTR & VVR are expensive, price a stay at Lake O'Hara or one of the catered "huts" in the White mountains. It costs a lot of money to run a business way back in the woods.
Wayne
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1Greywolf
01-27-2017, 11:14
Great info. Did I miss it in the posts? Does anyone know the reason for draining Florence Lake?
Thanks
HooKooDooKu
01-27-2017, 14:03
Great info. Did I miss it in the posts? Does anyone know the reason for draining Florence Lake?
Thanks
I don't think I ever ran across anything that said exactly, but I can only imagine it has something to do with work on the lake's dam.