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View Full Version : Bear Cannister Vs Bagging



bkristynicole
01-17-2017, 17:49
I have only ever bear bagged, and haven't really had any issues... But I have read that the ATC is recommending carrying a bear cannister due to the increased frequency of bears being attracted to human food... I can onlyl imagine this might be due to poor bagging practices...

Any thoughts on bringing a bear cannister vs just bagging?

Deadeye
01-17-2017, 20:52
I'm one of the few WB members that use a bear can. I spend a lot of time in the Adirondacks where canisters are required, so I got used to it, and actually like it. I figure sooner or later they will be required more places than not, so I'm just ahead of the game. Keeps your food dry and whole, and it weighs about one day's worth of food - not that big a deal.

josh_ATL
01-17-2017, 21:18
I've heard through the grapevine that the stretches of trail that recommend/require bear cans are usually just popular spots on the trail that everyone visits frequently. (ie. Blood Mountain) It's intended to keep people from camping in certain areas to reduce impact on the sites. Most hikers would prefer not to carry a bear can, so they camp right before the section of trail that requires one, then hike through the section the following day so the bear can isn't necessary.

I put all my food in a OPKSAK TrailProof bag and then in a dry bag. This works both for hanging a bear bag, and the more frequently used but somewhat unpopular method of just tossing your food bag it in the bottom of your pack. I've never had any issues using this method, at least on the AT. I don't usually hang a bear bag, unless there are convenient cables near where I'm camping.

I would 100% of the time recommend bagging over a carrying a bear can.

The Cleaner
01-17-2017, 22:00
I talked to the USFS Wilderness Ranger at Shining Rock Wilderness about a year ago.One thing many hikers do is improper disposal of uneaten camp food.Many throw food into fire pits and even if it burns pretty good,bears can smell this and will dig into fire pits making a mess.Anyone ever tried a new Mountain House meal and found it too bad to eat? Well some just scatter this over in the weeds behind their camp.Might as well just hang out and feed the bears.Only 2 ways to get rid of camp food.Eat it or pack it out.Fire pits are not trash cans for hikers to toss whatever into thinking that hikers behind them will have a fire and burn it. In the last few years the number of hikers starting a NOBO thru hike in GA is way up and many shelters are seeing very large groups which just compounds the problem as many still can't figure out what LNT is about.

HooKooDooKu
01-17-2017, 22:17
While I know there are those that say they simply sleep with your food, but if the choice is properly hanging your food or use a bear canister, a canister is much simpler, especially if you use one like the Bearikade that uses coin operated twist locks (the Bear Vault is designed somewhat like a safety cap on a pill bottle by comparison, and can be much more difficult to operate when it is cold).

MuddyWaters
01-17-2017, 22:51
Only drawback to cannister is weight.
Aside from that theres no comparison, they rock. Simple.

rafe
01-18-2017, 00:27
Only drawback to cannister is weight.
Aside from that theres no comparison, they rock. Simple.

Agree. Most likely will be required at some point in the future. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Engine
01-18-2017, 07:11
I know the recommended practice for cannister use is to leave it laying well away from the tent in a depression so it doesn't roll away. From my experience out west spots like that would usually be easy find, but on the AT it could be harder. How are people using them? Just laying them away from the tent, or are they hanging them as well?

jjozgrunt
01-18-2017, 08:01
I'll just use a food bag, as I have no use for a canister after the walk. Obviously if it was a requirement I would have one.

Malto
01-18-2017, 08:22
I know the recommended practice for cannister use is to leave it laying well away from the tent in a depression so it doesn't roll away. From my experience out west spots like that would usually be easy find, but on the AT it could be harder. How are people using them? Just laying them away from the tent, or are they hanging them as well?

No, you don't hang a canister or an ursack.

and to the OP.... there are options beyond proper hanging and canisters.
1) sleep with the food. This is what a large number of people do including myself. It is based on the assumption that bears will not challenge you for possession of your food. (this is why don't bears attack walking hikers for their food)
2) Ursack. Lighter and more pack friendly. It's a bit more work than a canister but less than a hang. Bear won't get food but you could have some prechewed food.
3) a crappy hang which is what the majority of hanging. If you go this route then learn how to hang properly. The PCT method is what I recommend. IMHO this is the worst route to go. You have lost possession of your food and made it accessible. Bad news for both your food and the bear.

Sandy of PA
01-18-2017, 09:38
I just put mine away from the tent, but still within view so I can scare anything that tries to mess with it. In over 2000 miles, it has never been touched.

Deadeye
01-18-2017, 10:20
I know the recommended practice for cannister use is to leave it laying well away from the tent in a depression so it doesn't roll away. From my experience out west spots like that would usually be easy find, but on the AT it could be harder. How are people using them? Just laying them away from the tent, or are they hanging them as well?

It's easy to find spots to leave the can - there are almost always downed trees around to create an area where it won't roll away if a bear works on it. You definitely do not hang the can, or leave it in a carrying bag that some people use... that's like putting handle on it so the bear can run off with it (he still won't get in, but you'll have a hard time finding it). I've left my can in many places, including caching food drops for a week or more, and it's never been touched.

Water Rat
01-18-2017, 10:42
I have only ever bear bagged, and haven't really had any issues... But I have read that the ATC is recommending carrying a bear cannister due to the increased frequency of bears being attracted to human food... I can onlyl imagine this might be due to poor bagging practices...

Any thoughts on bringing a bear cannister vs just bagging?

Between the instances of human stupidity, the increased number of hikers on the trail, and the increased number of bear interactions, I do have to say this recommendation does not surprise me. It is possible they are just trying to get ahead of potential problems by recommending a canister.

I think the likely decreased natural food sources (due to fire) might also cause the bears to be more curious about the smell of food bags this year.

It might also be harder to find a "safe" limb to hang the food bag from in the areas impacted by the fires.

AfterParty
01-18-2017, 12:53
I may just get one. There are a few areas I'd enventually need one anyways the bearakade sp is kinda pricey. But I like it best outta what I have seen. I will hang till I make up mind

josh_ATL
01-18-2017, 22:21
[QUOTE=Malto;2120179]No, you don't hang a canister or an ursack.

1) sleep with the food. This is what a large number of people do including myself. It is based on the assumption that bears will not challenge you for possession of your food. (this is why don't bears attack walking hikers for their food)

I'm all about this option...unless there are easily accessible cables nearby. I keep my food in a LokSak scentproof bag, in my food dry bag, in my pack, in my tent. I've never had a problem with a bear, much less mouse, racoon or other critter. At first you'll see everyone hanging bear bags, and then little by little, they'll start getting lazy about it, and by the time you hit Virginia most people are sleeping with their food in their tents. Believe me, after a month or two of hiking, hanging a bear bag will be the last thing you'll want to do when you get into camp completely exhausted. That being said, you should still be aware of what the consequences could be when you sleep with your food.

egilbe
01-19-2017, 01:07
Mice tend to chew holes in food bags, tents or packs to get at food in a tent. A couple sleepless nights spent killing mice climbing on me and I decided food goes outside.

Tundracamper
01-19-2017, 10:08
Just curious, are canisters smell-proof? I know the bear can't get into them, but can they smell thru them? I would think even if not there would be some residual smell on the outside from a person handling it, etc. I know animals have remarkable senses of smell.

Tundracamper
01-19-2017, 10:10
[QUOTE=Malto;2120179]. Believe me, after a month or two of hiking, hanging a bear bag will be the last thing you'll want to do when you get into camp completely exhausted. That being said, you should still be aware of what the consequences could be when you sleep with your food.

Yep, if the bear decides he wants it, it will be the last thing you do - ever.

Deadeye
01-19-2017, 11:33
Just curious, are canisters smell-proof?

Nope. Some folks use odor-barrier bags inside them.

Malto
01-19-2017, 13:48
[QUOTE=josh_ATL;2120393]

Yep, if the bear decides he wants it, it will be the last thing you do - ever.

Yeah, I didn't say that! Interesting that a quote could get messed up :)

to to your point..... and a bear decides he wants it when your walking then same thing. Neither have happened frequently at all.

Tundracamper
01-19-2017, 21:58
[QUOTE=Tundracamper;2120485]

Yeah, I didn't say that! Interesting that a quote could get messed up :)

to to your point..... and a bear decides he wants it when your walking then same thing. Neither have happened frequently at all.

But, I would much rather see a bear coming at me down the trail than wake up when he's breathing on my face. No?

Jameson
01-19-2017, 23:50
Does anyone currently using a canister really like a certain brand and size? I have always used a bear bag and just wonder how well they fit in packs?

JustFun
01-28-2017, 21:00
I have a full size BearVault canister (model BV500) that I use. It weighs in at 3 lb 3 oz and holds about 11.5 liters. It fits in an Osprey Exos 48.

I tried bear bagging on the AT and it was great for the shelters where there was a bear pole. But where I had to find a suitable tree and actually throw a rope over a branch at a correct height from the ground as well as correct distance from the trunk, I found my success at bear bagging to be too unreliable.

Good luck!

ScareBear
01-28-2017, 21:09
I have a full size BearVault canister (model BV500) that I use. It weighs in at 3 lb 3 oz and holds about 11.5 liters. It fits in an Osprey Exos 48.

I tried bear bagging on the AT and it was great for the shelters where there was a bear pole. But where I had to find a suitable tree and actually throw a rope over a branch at a correct height from the ground as well as correct distance from the trunk, I found my success at bear bagging to be too unreliable.

Good luck!

Never had that happen. I've had to walk more than 200 or 300 meters off-trail before finding the right hang though...YMMV, I guess...

When I have to do a hang like that, I just count steps from the tent on the way out with a general compass heading and then retrace and get the dead-on heading so the next morning I've got a darn good idea exactly where in the forest the hang is...yeah, it sucks to go get it in the dark and rain the next morning to retrieve it and have a good brekkie, but I can't stand the weight of a bear can and still don't want the food anywhere near the tent, even in a can..

MuddyWaters
01-28-2017, 21:17
Does anyone currently using a canister really like a certain brand and size? I have always used a bear bag and just wonder how well they fit in packs?

Yep
Bearikade weekender
Because its the lightest (32 oz) that big enough for about a week, and approved by yosemite, seki, etc. For those that dabble out west or have aspirations too, which u should. $290 + shipping.

Holds value well because light and $$$, and can resell for virtually what paid. Mainly because ca residents have to pay sales tax for new ones.

P-N
02-13-2017, 21:19
I'm using a Bearikade Weekender for my 2017 SOBO Thru hike. On my 2009 Thru turned section hike at Harpers Ferry I hung my food. In 2009 it got really old at the end of the day looking for a suitable tree plus there were the times another hiker came along and tried to use the same limb but just wound up snarling both our lines. I took a three day test hike with the Bearikade on the AT last September and found out I loved it. As others have said it keeps your food dry and away from bears. I would add that it makes a great camp stool/table. Something else I like is it keeps my food safe from all critters not just bears. Mice were my biggest worry in 2009 for getting into my food. Sleep with your food bag and you not only get a hole chewed in your food bag but in your tent as well. No thanks! Then there are squirrels, raccoons, possums, porcupines, coyotes etc. In 2009 I wouldn't have considered hiking with a bearcan but in the years before that I wouldn't have hiked with trekking poles, now you won't catch me without either. Those who think the recommendation for cans has more to do with incompetent newbies than it does with bears should read the bear closure reports at campsites and shelters for last year as well as hiker trail journals. I saw mention of several bears coming into a camp at dinner time and in one instance it took several campers three tries to finally discourage the bears. In NY I read of a couple of thru hikers coming into a shelter area at dinner time and they scared off a bear stealing a pack from a tent while the owner was at the shelter eating. The AT Conservancy site in August 2016 listed 3 AT shelters closed and 4 others with cautions due to bear activity. This was between Daleville, VA and Springer. A good food bag hang will take care of these problems as will a bearcan. You know my choice.

MuddyWaters
02-13-2017, 22:17
As others have said it keeps your food dry and away from bears. I would add that it makes a great camp stool/table. Something else I like is it keeps my food safe from all critters not just bears.

Only keeps it dry if you leave it upside down, and not in a puddle.
The lid does have an O-ring, but the lid bends very easy to where aforementioned O-ring doesnt do squat. Just cramming food in and forcing lid closed with a little pressure bends the lid a hair, and it will never bend back completely in one plane to seal against o-ring again. If it ever did well to start with that is.

Deadeye
02-13-2017, 22:25
Only keeps it dry if you leave it upside down, and not in a puddle.
The lid does have an O-ring, but the lid bends very easy to where aforementioned O-ring doesnt do squat. Just cramming food in and forcing lid closed with a little pressure bends the lid a hair, and it will never bend back completely in one plane to seal against o-ring again. If it ever did well to start with that is.

I don't know which particular can you're referring to, but this is not an issue with BearVault brand... quite watertight in any position.

MuddyWaters
02-13-2017, 22:34
I don't know which particular can you're referring to, but this is not an issue with BearVault brand... quite watertight in any position.

Bearikade.

BearVault has its own set of issues, such as being extremely difficult to open sometimes with pressure or temperature changes, if the threads arent greased a little.

Sandy of PA
02-14-2017, 09:40
I learned real quick to line my Bearicade weekender with a bag, and turn it upside down. I had one fourth of an inch of water in the bottom after a overnight storm. Yes, I too carry a bearcan!

blw2
02-15-2017, 12:52
ok, so cans will help protect against rodents too right?
and the previous poster even mentioned the dangers of food in the tent resulting in rodents opening a hole in said tent to get at it...
so here's a question...
if the food is in a can, and in the tent..... don't the rodents still smell it and try to get at it?
i mean it's not like they can tell from outside the tent that it's in a can and then with their little rat brains decide it's not worth the trouble....

and for the plastic cans.... don't they just chew right through them?

JustFun
02-15-2017, 13:01
**snip**
so here's a question...
if the food is in a can, and in the tent..... don't the rodents still smell it and try to get at it?
i mean it's not like they can tell from outside the tent that it's in a can and then with their little rat brains decide it's not worth the trouble....

and for the plastic cans.... don't they just chew right through them?

Just FYI - correct use of the bear canister is to place it away from your tent. As you pointed out, animals can still smell the food in the can. If it's away from your tent, they can play with it, try to get in it and then give up and go away without harming your tent.

Deadeye
02-15-2017, 15:20
No, rodents can't chew through the cans... they are essentially oversized nalgene bottles and are tougher than the average bear/mouse/racoon and most aliens, too.

MuddyWaters
02-15-2017, 17:18
Ive seen pics of bearvaults that rodents did damage to lid.
Given enough time, i would think rodents could get thru the plastic if they can start on a sharp edge or corner.

Hosh
02-15-2017, 23:57
Yep
Bearikade weekender
Because its the lightest (32 oz) that big enough for about a week, and approved by yosemite, seki, etc. For those that dabble out west or have aspirations too, which u should. $290 + shipping.

Holds value well because light and $$$, and can resell for virtually what paid. Mainly because ca residents have to pay sales tax for new ones.

A BV500 weights 41 ounces, holds 7 days of food and can easy be opened with a knife blade, credit card or stick. Hard to fathom spending an extra $200+ dollars to save 9 ounces.

MuddyWaters
02-16-2017, 01:50
Hard to fathom spending an extra $200+ dollars to save 9 ounces.

Plenty do.
Mainly because they can resell, and net same or less loss than cheaper cannister.


But 200/9= $22/oz. When people get basewt down under 8- 10, they can spend $30-50/oz saved on cuben fiber or $$$ down, so 22/oz is really a deal sometimes...along that line o thinkin.

The bv is known to get sticky and hard to turn sometimes. Separate issue from bending tab locks. Ive heard of people not being able to open theirs until it warmed up. Dirty threads and differential contraction of lid and body locked the lid in place when cold so couldnt turn.

Whiskey_Richard
02-16-2017, 09:01
The carbon fiber weekender is 31.1oz according to their website so that's a savings of 9.9 oz getting darn close to a pound at that point. I'm personally going to rent one and leave my camp chair behind to offset the weight.

http://www.wild-ideas.net/custom-bearikades/

G-FOURce
02-16-2017, 12:54
No, you don't hang a canister or an ursack.

and to the OP.... there are options beyond proper hanging and canisters.

1) sleep with the food. This is what a large number of people do including myself.It is based on the assumption that bears will not challenge you for possession of your food. (this is why don't bears attack walking hikers for their food)
2) Ursack. Lighter and more pack friendly. It's a bit more work than a canister but less than a hang. Bear won't get food but you could have some prechewed food.
3) a crappy hang which is what the majority of hanging. If you go this route then learn how to hang properly. The PCT method is what I recommend. IMHO this is the worst route to go. You have lost possession of your food and made it accessible. Bad news for both your food and the bear.

Point 1) For me personally, that is an assumption I wouldn't want to test, which sleeping with the food seems to be doing. In the event that a bear comes near enough to where I am camped that it can smell the edibles that I have been carrying, then I'd rather the bear spend its time trying to get at my food bag that is properly hung and is a safe distance away from where I am sleeping than to have the bear follow the scent to my tent and have me as the lone deterrent b/w it and my food bag. I know there are arguments on both sides of this fence, so now we all know on which side I reside. My opinion is that sleeping with your food will never be a problem until it is, and when it becomes a problem it becomes one of such magnitude that I don't want it. :-)

Point 3) I agree that improperly hung food is a likely cause for food-related issues with bears. I also agree that the PCT method, when utilized correctly, is the best method for hanging food if that's your preferred method for storing food at camp. If my choices are to sleep with my food or to hang it properly at a reasonable distance from where I am slumbering then I respectfully disagree that hanging is the worst route to go and I will hang it every time.