Your First Undestructable Pair Of Hiking Boots (Lightweight, High Friction) [Archive]

higuy111

01-18-2017, 15:58

Hello,

Few months ago I started taking hiking quite seriously and now I am becoming the best hiker in the world.

My health and superpowers improved significantly - that's one of the benefits. Right now I can walk at least 2 miles without the risk of running out of mana.

Although, I couldn't help noticing that my footwear does not hold my super feet the way it should and it does not like my new hiking habits. So after destroying a second cheap pair of boots I decided it's time to invest in a decent pair of proper super ultra hiking boots.

Main requirements: durable, lightweight, comfortable, powerful and under 400 dollars.

After some research and trying out some boots in local stores I am being torn between two choices: KEEN Men’s Targhee II Hiking Shoes and Merrell Men’s Moab Ventilator Hiking Shoes you can see them HERE: http://readytohike.com/best-hiking-shoes-for-men-lightweight/

I really liked the feel and the amount of ultraness of both, although, the option 2 seems a bit more comfortable, but I heard that option 1 tends to be more durable aka powerful.:confused:

I would be grateful if you could share your opinion. Which one would you choose and recommend?

Thank you

Gambit McCrae

01-18-2017, 16:25

After reading this...twice...You sir picked a perfect screen name.

Greenlight

01-18-2017, 16:34

I have first-foot (similar to first-hand) experience with the Merrill Moab Ventilator mids. I absolutely love them. Never had a blister. Though I've always hiked in them paired with Superfeet green insoles and merino socks. I've hiked these puppies hard, on all kinds of trails in all kinds of weather. My my feet have stayed warm, they dry quickly for boots, and they're my go-to footwear.

Hello,

Few months ago I started taking hiking quite seriously and now I am becoming the best hiker in the world.

My health and superpowers improved significantly - that's one of the benefits. Right now I can walk at least 2 miles without the risk of running out of mana.

Although, I couldn't help noticing that my footwear does not hold my super feet the way it should and it does not like my new hiking habits. So after destroying a second cheap pair of boots I decided it's time to invest in a decent pair of proper super ultra hiking boots.

Main requirements: durable, lightweight, comfortable, powerful and under 400 dollars.

After some research and trying out some boots in local stores I am being torn between two choices: KEEN Men’s Targhee II Hiking Shoes and Merrell Men’s Moab Ventilator Hiking Shoes you can see them HERE: http://readytohike.com/best-hiking-shoes-for-men-lightweight/

I really liked the feel and the amount of ultraness of both, although, the option 2 seems a bit more comfortable, but I heard that option 1 tends to be more durable aka powerful.:confused:

I would be grateful if you could share your opinion. Which one would you choose and recommend?

Thank you

higuy111

01-18-2017, 16:35

Thank you sir!

After reading this...twice...You sir picked a perfect screen name.

Greenlight

01-18-2017, 16:38

BTW those 332.75 miles in my signature line? 300 of them were hiked in my Merrill's, along with that much more (and then some) walking around my town, mostly on asphalt. And they've still got some life in them. I don't count my "walking" miles in my sig line total, because if there isn't a pack on my back, I don't consider myself to be hiking. One reason I'm sort of disenfranchised with my local hiking club. They mostly walk in malls, on paved bike trails, etc. They aren't hikers, they're walkers. :)

higuy111

01-18-2017, 16:39

That is the exact kind of stuff I need! 1 Points goes to...

Could you tell me, how it feels hiking with these? Just like walking on clouds or a bit lighter?

I have first-foot (similar to first-hand) experience with the Merrill Moab Ventilator mids. I absolutely love them. Never had a blister. Though I've always hiked in them paired with Superfeet green insoles and merino socks. I've hiked these puppies hard, on all kinds of trails in all kinds of weather. My my feet have stayed warm, they dry quickly for boots, and they're my go-to footwear.

DuneElliot

01-18-2017, 16:41

I answered this over on SB.com (same Screen Name). Pick the pair that fits the best and is the most comfortable...durability isn't going to help when your feet are hurting!

higuy111

01-18-2017, 16:41

Thank you! That is a strong argument for Merrills. Do you prefer rocky terrains or more "asphalty" terrains?

BTW those 332.75 miles in my signature line? 300 of them were hiked in my Merrill's, along with that much more (and then some) walking around my town, mostly on asphalt. And they've still got some life in them. I don't count my "walking" miles in my sig line total, because if there isn't a pack on my back, I don't consider myself to be hiking. One reason I'm sort of disenfranchised with my local hiking club. They mostly walk in malls, on paved bike trails, etc. They aren't hikers, they're walkers. :)

higuy111

01-18-2017, 16:43

Thank you :) I believe, that if there's a possibility to choose durability AND comfort, I'd like to do that.

I answered this over on SB.com (same Screen Name). Pick the pair that fits the best and is the most comfortable...durability isn't going to help when your feet are hurting!

Greenlight

01-18-2017, 16:45

I haven't had the experience of walking on clouds with anything other than those gel type Dr. Scholl's insoles I tried stuffing in my work boots back when I worked in the auto industry and had a really bad case of plantar faciitis (sp). I didn't much like the feeling of walking on clouds. It's too unstable. What I will say is that with the Merrill's, I didn't even think about my feet. Which is what you want. Except for some rocky portions of the AT in Western Maryland, (and I haven't talked to anyone who has been able to side-step that particular type of AT torture, especially in PA) they have simply performed near flawlessly. That is a lot to say when you're carrying 35 lbs on your back and going even 10 - 12 miles per day. I can't speak beyond that number because I haven't hiked much more mileage than that per day. I will this year, but I don't know yet. I'll probably continue to hike with this setup for footwear because I know it and I like it.

That is the exact kind of stuff I need! 1 Points goes to...

Could you tell me, how it feels hiking with these? Just like walking on clouds or a bit lighter?

higuy111

01-18-2017, 17:01

Thank you! That's a really detailed reply. That's what I had in mind, NOT THINKING ABOUT FEET. That's great!

I haven't had the experience of walking on clouds with anything other than those gel type Dr. Scholl's insoles I tried stuffing in my work boots back when I worked in the auto industry and had a really bad case of plantar faciitis (sp). I didn't much like the feeling of walking on clouds. It's too unstable. What I will say is that with the Merrill's, I didn't even think about my feet. Which is what you want. Except for some rocky portions of the AT in Western Maryland, (and I haven't talked to anyone who has been able to side-step that particular type of AT torture, especially in PA) they have simply performed near flawlessly. That is a lot to say when you're carrying 35 lbs on your back and going even 10 - 12 miles per day. I can't speak beyond that number because I haven't hiked much more mileage than that per day. I will this year, but I don't know yet. I'll probably continue to hike with this setup for footwear because I know it and I like it.

Decibel

01-18-2017, 17:19

Check out Oboz Sawtooth's. Their insoles are better than Superfeet. Great trail shoes. I'm on my second pair of the Sawtooths and just brought the Bridger mids.

LongBlaze2019

01-18-2017, 19:07

I have two pair of Rocky's that I hike in. A pair of SV5 trail runners and a pair of SV5 mid boots. Both are super light weight and very durable.

Sent from my N9519 using Tapatalk

egilbe

01-18-2017, 19:22

I have a pair of Moab Ventilators. For hiking, I don't like them so much. Hurt my feet. If I dont wear them for hours on end, they are fine. They've been relegated to my arounf town shoes. I have a pair of Oboz Bridger mids that work really well for fall and Winter hiking. Too hot for Summer. Leather gets wet and heavy. My preferred Three season hiking shoe has become my Salomon XDA3's. Feet stay cooler, its OK if they get wet, they dry out fairly quickly, much quicker than the merrel moabs, for sure.

Im fairly certain I'm going to stick with Salomon trail runners anytime I'm not worried about slush or snow.

Slo-go'en

01-18-2017, 22:08

higuy111

01-19-2017, 03:35

Hi, Thank you for reply! What do you mean by SV5? I tried to search on google but didn't find anything.

I have two pair of Rocky's that I hike in. A pair of SV5 trail runners and a pair of SV5 mid boots. Both are super light weight and very durable.

Sent from my N9519 using Tapatalk

higuy111

01-19-2017, 03:37

Are they purely synthetic?

I have a pair of Moab Ventilators. For hiking, I don't like them so much. Hurt my feet. If I dont wear them for hours on end, they are fine. They've been relegated to my arounf town shoes. I have a pair of Oboz Bridger mids that work really well for fall and Winter hiking. Too hot for Summer. Leather gets wet and heavy. My preferred Three season hiking shoe has become my Salomon XDA3's. Feet stay cooler, its OK if they get wet, they dry out fairly quickly, much quicker than the merrel moabs, for sure.

Im fairly certain I'm going to stick with Salomon trail runners anytime I'm not worried about slush or snow.

higuy111

01-19-2017, 03:38

I really like the idea of having TOUGH boots... But maybe it's more practical to have lighter hiking shoes?

No modern boot lasts more then about 500 miles on the AT. Pennsylvania's rocks really chew up boots. The only indestructible boots I've owned are all Leather Limmer boots, but they weigh nearly 3 pounds a piece!

egilbe

01-19-2017, 06:00

Are they purely synthetic?

Mostly, yes. They aren't designed to get wet and dry out.

sethd513

01-19-2017, 06:27

Moab mid ventilators or gtx will last. Last year I started wearing la sportiva trail runners and could see how burly the Moab's really were. I wear north face chilkat 400 when winter camping and every time I pull them out of the closet I wish Merrell made something comparable to it with a removable liner based around the Moab.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MtDoraDave

01-19-2017, 08:25

Try them both on in a good outfitter shop. Walk around the store with your backpack (fully loaded) for a while with each boot. If you find a toe rubbing or any sort of discomfort, eliminate that boot as a possibility.

I was told that fit / comfort is paramount in not getting blisters. Second is keeping your feet dry. It doesn't matter how many people swear by this boot brand or that boot brand.

Buy what fits YOUR feet.

For my feet, the Keen Targhee 2 mid fit the best. 500 miles on them before the first blister - and it was from my feet being wet and the seam of my sock twisted around the side of my big toe.
Delamination is an issue with Keens, so either replace them when they start to come apart or keep a tube of shoo goo around to glue them back together.
I have been impressed with their grip on everything but ice.

Traveler

01-19-2017, 08:35

To the OP, over time I have used the three major types of footwear, high top leather boots (Asolo, Vasque), high top synthetic boots (Merrill, Vasque), low cut trail shoes (Moab Ventilator among others), and trail runners (Solomon and New Balance). For most all of this footwear I have walked terrain similar to what one would find along the AT with some exceptions for the Asolo 520 boots that have been in some pretty extreme neighborhoods and continue to surprise me with their durability.

Long ago I started logging every hike on a spreadsheet even if its just a mile off the road to see something. I note the date, weather conditions, time, duration of the walk, footwear, pack, food, and assorted other things that I have an interest in keeping track of. That way I can literally track the life of my gear (in this instance footwear) pretty much from the time it comes out of the box to the moment they lose their mojo signaling replacement.

My experience with footwear is I will get from 1,600 to 2,000 miles out of high top leather boots, about 800 miles out of the high top synthetic boots, about 400 - 500 miles out of the trail shoes, and about 300 - 400 miles (really stretching it) out of the trail runners. I would say most of those I talk to and have seen post in this forum fall inside these ranges overall, with a few exceptions here and there of a few miles less or more, some with creative use of duct tape and zip ties.

Given the mileage one can reasonably expect from footgear, replacment of footwear on a long distance hike is pretty common, which will require some budgeting. Using the rough scale above you can get a pretty good idea of what is likely going to be needed for each type of boot/shoe.

Like Slo-go'en points out, if indestructible is what you are looking for, you will need to look at the high end of the high top leather boot market, which can carry price tags from about $350 to over $700 a pair, much more if you go into a custom made boot. These are much heavier than synthetic high tops and/or shoes and require some care along the way, but are more likely to go the full AT distance than anything else. Heavy boots are not everyone's favorite, ultra-lighters have strong issues with them for example. So, presuming you don't want to get into higher end leather boots of about 4 to 6 lbs a pair, I would use the following to base budgeting on:

Mid-level hightop hiking boots (synthetic) range greatly in their longevity, but as a general rule will run out of walk at about the 800 mile area. That translates to two replacement pairs necessary to complete the AT if started with a pair having about 400 miles on them. Prices on these mid-level boots run from $130 to $200 a pair, so I would budget about $150.00 for each replacement pair and $150 for the starting pair, for a total budget of $450.00 from first to last step.

Trail shoes will probably need to be replaced about every 500 miles, which translates to starting a thru with a new pair and purchasing three more pairs along the way (presuming each pair lasts the full 500 miles which is a gamble). Prices on these range from $70 or so on sale to about $100 a pair, so I would budget at the higher end at 4- pairs for a total of $400.00.

Trail runners will probably need to be replaced every 300 miles (400 if you want to stretch them to the point of discomfort). That translates to about 6 pairs total if you start with a new pair. Pricing on these range from about $70.00 (dirt cheap and look it too) to about $175.00 a pair, so I would use a budget figure of about $130.00 per pair and budget about $780.00.

These are pretty rough budget numbers and may be a little low given the rigors of a long distance hike and damaging terrain and weather conditions that can tear up footgear, never mind the potential for replacement after 50 miles and you find the shoe doesn't work for you and another pair is needed.. However, it should give you an idea of what to expect.

Good luck!

LongBlaze2019

01-19-2017, 09:34

Hi, Thank you for reply! What do you mean by SV5? I tried to search on google but didn't find anything.
Sorry it was supposed to be S2V lol
Not sure what happened.

Sent from my N9519 using Tapatalk

Leo L.

01-19-2017, 10:06

...
My experience with footwear is I will get from 1,600 to 2,000 miles out of high top leather boots, about 800 miles out of the high top synthetic boots, about 400 - 500 miles out of the trail shoes, and about 300 - 400 miles (really stretching it) out of the trail runners.
...
Thank you for sharing your experience, while I don't have any concrete numbers myself I still would fully agree with your statistics.

I had come a long way from old-style leather hiking boots to trail shoes to trail runners and now I'm back towards high-top leather boots, mainly because I dislike the short lifespan of trail runners.
Only difference to your numbers I find in the prices, while we here in Austria have to pay a lot more than you do for the worldwide known Salomons etc., I am lucky enough to have a small very traditional manufacturer of leather boots here in the vicinity, where I can get most models for the same price as Salomons.

Feral Bill

01-19-2017, 15:44

Had a pair of Keens blow a seem while hiking in Oregon a few years ago. Comfy, but I don't trust them. I'm in Altras now, and much prefer them in every way, probably because the fit my feet so well.

gollwoods

01-19-2017, 16:55

Get some Hanwag boots

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

higuy111

01-19-2017, 17:02

So they are only for a dry weather?

Mostly, yes. They aren't designed to get wet and dry out.

higuy111

01-19-2017, 17:06

But north face chilkat 400 wouldn't be suitable for hot weather I believe?

Moab mid ventilators or gtx will last. Last year I started wearing la sportiva trail runners and could see how burly the Moab's really were. I wear north face chilkat 400 when winter camping and every time I pull them out of the closet I wish Merrell made something comparable to it with a removable liner based around the Moab.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

higuy111

01-19-2017, 17:10

But I've noticed that there is a tendency in stores to tell you that the shoes are going to "stretch" after some time and it's normal to feel a bit of rubbing. Are you saying that's not entirely true?

Try them both on in a good outfitter shop. Walk around the store with your backpack (fully loaded) for a while with each boot. If you find a toe rubbing or any sort of discomfort, eliminate that boot as a possibility.

I was told that fit / comfort is paramount in not getting blisters. Second is keeping your feet dry. It doesn't matter how many people swear by this boot brand or that boot brand.

Buy what fits YOUR feet.

For my feet, the Keen Targhee 2 mid fit the best. 500 miles on them before the first blister - and it was from my feet being wet and the seam of my sock twisted around the side of my big toe.
Delamination is an issue with Keens, so either replace them when they start to come apart or keep a tube of shoo goo around to glue them back together.
I have been impressed with their grip on everything but ice.

rboles

01-19-2017, 17:20

I suggest Salomon XA Pro 3D trail running shoes. The fit all your main requirements and have served me well on all my section hikes. My foot is narrow, however, so these fit perfectly. May not worker for wider feet.

higuy111

01-19-2017, 17:22

Thank you Traveler,

That's really detailed.

I never thought that it could be that expensive to get ready for AT..

May I ask, do you still have your first pair of hiking boots?

To the OP, over time I have used the three major types of footwear, high top leather boots (Asolo, Vasque), high top synthetic boots (Merrill, Vasque), low cut trail shoes (Moab Ventilator among others), and trail runners (Solomon and New Balance). For most all of this footwear I have walked terrain similar to what one would find along the AT with some exceptions for the Asolo 520 boots that have been in some pretty extreme neighborhoods and continue to surprise me with their durability.

Long ago I started logging every hike on a spreadsheet even if its just a mile off the road to see something. I note the date, weather conditions, time, duration of the walk, footwear, pack, food, and assorted other things that I have an interest in keeping track of. That way I can literally track the life of my gear (in this instance footwear) pretty much from the time it comes out of the box to the moment they lose their mojo signaling replacement.

My experience with footwear is I will get from 1,600 to 2,000 miles out of high top leather boots, about 800 miles out of the high top synthetic boots, about 400 - 500 miles out of the trail shoes, and about 300 - 400 miles (really stretching it) out of the trail runners. I would say most of those I talk to and have seen post in this forum fall inside these ranges overall, with a few exceptions here and there of a few miles less or more, some with creative use of duct tape and zip ties.

Given the mileage one can reasonably expect from footgear, replacment of footwear on a long distance hike is pretty common, which will require some budgeting. Using the rough scale above you can get a pretty good idea of what is likely going to be needed for each type of boot/shoe.

Like Slo-go'en points out, if indestructible is what you are looking for, you will need to look at the high end of the high top leather boot market, which can carry price tags from about $350 to over $700 a pair, much more if you go into a custom made boot. These are much heavier than synthetic high tops and/or shoes and require some care along the way, but are more likely to go the full AT distance than anything else. Heavy boots are not everyone's favorite, ultra-lighters have strong issues with them for example. So, presuming you don't want to get into higher end leather boots of about 4 to 6 lbs a pair, I would use the following to base budgeting on:

Mid-level hightop hiking boots (synthetic) range greatly in their longevity, but as a general rule will run out of walk at about the 800 mile area. That translates to two replacement pairs necessary to complete the AT if started with a pair having about 400 miles on them. Prices on these mid-level boots run from $130 to $200 a pair, so I would budget about $150.00 for each replacement pair and $150 for the starting pair, for a total budget of $450.00 from first to last step.

Trail shoes will probably need to be replaced about every 500 miles, which translates to starting a thru with a new pair and purchasing three more pairs along the way (presuming each pair lasts the full 500 miles which is a gamble). Prices on these range from $70 or so on sale to about $100 a pair, so I would budget at the higher end at 4- pairs for a total of $400.00.

Trail runners will probably need to be replaced every 300 miles (400 if you want to stretch them to the point of discomfort). That translates to about 6 pairs total if you start with a new pair. Pricing on these range from about $70.00 (dirt cheap and look it too) to about $175.00 a pair, so I would use a budget figure of about $130.00 per pair and budget about $780.00.

These are pretty rough budget numbers and may be a little low given the rigors of a long distance hike and damaging terrain and weather conditions that can tear up footgear, never mind the potential for replacement after 50 miles and you find the shoe doesn't work for you and another pair is needed.. However, it should give you an idea of what to expect.

Good luck!

poolskaterx

01-19-2017, 18:34

I have a quiver of shoes for hiking; some very durable and some really light weight and a bunch in between. Good luck with your search, this is what I can tell you:

My Merrells (low tops) are super comfy for "day to day" use but a little too squishy hiking for me... kinda wide.

Northface (low tops) *3rd pair, pretty light and great fit with a decent "shank" for rocky terrain but this is my 3rd pair and usually only use them for day hikes

Lasportiva (mids) insanely light, so comfortable. I wanna wear thees almost everyday during the week. Not what I would use again on super rocky terrain as the sole does not have a very structured shank so foot placement on sharp edged rocks is not so good but doable if careful

Saloman (low tops) eh, a little too narrow for me and not real light; bought em on a whim as they were on sale for super cheap... Not my preference

LaSportiva Omega GTX (high tops) Love em, awesome support but my second heaviest boot. Support galore, near bomber build, fit my feet great.

Asolo 520 (high tops) *3rd pair but I barely wear this pair since finding lighter boots. Bomber, bomber, bomber and you will feel the strength of this all leather boot with each step... it feels like you have ankle weights on after finding a lighter boot.

Just because 100 people say "yadda" boot is the best does not mean that is the one for your foot or hiking style. Find what is comfortable for you with your usual pack weight and enjoy... they are gonna wear out.

37958

sethd513

01-19-2017, 20:25

But north face chilkat 400 wouldn't be suitable for hot weather I believe?

Absolutely not haha. I just like the size and cut of my moabs. Wish Merrell made a boot that was as warm because I'd buy it for winter. Check Amazon and sierra trading post. You could get Merrells fairly cheap. They aren't all the same though. I'd never hike out of the moabs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MtDoraDave

01-20-2017, 08:14

But I've noticed that there is a tendency in stores to tell you that the shoes are going to "stretch" after some time and it's normal to feel a bit of rubbing. Are you saying that's not entirely true?

Yes.
Here's what many stores wont tell you. After hiking up and down mountains, your feet will grow or swell, making snug boots even tighter.
A bit of rubbing in the store will be a blister on the trail. A blister makes for a miserable trip.

My last section hike I did, 85ish miles in VA, I wore my trusty Nike's on the drive up, hiked all week in my boots, then put the Nike's on for the drive home. They were downright uncomfortably tight on the way home.

So while it's possible a boot will stretch with your foot, if there's a rub on your little toe in the store, how much is that going to hurt when your feet grow or swell?

On an overnight trip here in FL, a woman showed up in camp with blisters on her feet... "Everyone says these Merrill's are great shoes..." Yeah, well, they're not so great for YOUR feet.

My hiking partner spent over $200 on a pair of Solomon boots. Less than 10 miles into his first overnight hike with them, blisters. The next week he bought another pair of boots... $250 Lowa's.

You can get hundreds of such stories if you wish.

Traveler

01-20-2017, 08:28

Thank you Traveler,

That's really detailed.

I never thought that it could be that expensive to get ready for AT..

May I ask, do you still have your first pair of hiking boots?

My first pair of hiking boots were purchased in 1967, so no. I only hang on to the last worn pair and pitch the older ones. Once the boot/shoe looses its mojo (I define this as loss of its ability to grip surfaces predictably) I no longer take them out into the woods but they are handy for doing various things in the yard.

Hikingjim

01-20-2017, 10:09

I have used moabs for about 7 years (with some trail runner and boots for winter mixed in).
I have gone through about 6 pairs.
I agree with the 500 miles or so. When they start to degrade they aren't ideal but have a bit of life left in them, and I shift them to being biking/town/light hiking shoes (usually with a new in sole though)

I use them because the fit is fantastic for me, and contrary to some, I can do 13 hour days and NEVER

Hikingjim

01-20-2017, 10:10

I somehow posted that early by mistake.Was saying:

I use them because the fit is fantastic for me, and contrary to some, I can do 13 hour days and NEVER get sore feet in these (20-25lb pack typically)

Secondmouse

01-20-2017, 12:31

But I've noticed that there is a tendency in stores to tell you that the shoes are going to "stretch" after some time and it's normal to feel a bit of rubbing. Are you saying that's not entirely true?

no, if anything, your feet will swell...

I grew up being told I needed "sturdy" leather hiking boots to protect my ankles and to lace them tight to "stabilize" my feet. at the end of the day my feet would throb and looked like they'd been through the mill. not to mention my legs would feel like lead...

I transitioned to mostly low hiking "shoes" in a size, or TWO, larger than my normal street shoes and I barely tighten the laces; I can easily slip them off without untying. the change was wonderful but the leather (Nubuck) retains water and they don't dry off very quickly.

now I'm looking at using trail runners, something that's completely synthetic and mesh. I'm wearing a pair of Hoka One One Stinson3 Trail Runners and they are literally the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn.

they are less than a pound for the pair. the sole is big and puffy so it takes a bit of getting used to walking in them but for someone who battles plantar fasciitis, the comfort is amazing!..

rafe

01-20-2017, 12:48

No modern boot lasts more then about 500 miles on the AT. Pennsylvania's rocks really chew up boots. The only indestructible boots I've owned are all Leather Limmer boots, but they weigh nearly 3 pounds a piece!

This. Modern fabric boots are cheap and comfy but not durable. Back in the old days we wore heavy leather boots (eg. Limmers) and our feet suffered for it.

Somewhere in the middle were lightweight leather boots (eg. Fabiano Trionics) but by the time I realized how fine and unique they were, they were out of production.

Conclusion: durability in modern boots is a lost cause. Go for what's cheap and comfortable, expect to replace them after a few hundred miles. There's really no "breaking in" required. Not like the old days.

peakbagger

01-20-2017, 14:46

I am very limited on shoe size as I wear a size 13 EEEE . Luckily New Balance makes several models in that width. They generally fit well once I replace the insoles with heat moldable Montrails inserts. I too had custom Limmers years ago and wore through one set of soles in about 3 years as I used them a lot in the whites (my backyard). I had ankle issues for as long as I used heavy boots. I switched to trail runners when they first came out about 20 years ago with one of the original New Balance 801ATs they were "the footwear" to use on the AT for about two seasons and pretty well established that trail runners were a good match for thru hikers. Sadly New Balance rarely keep the same models every year so they would come up with new AT model every year or so. Some were good some were bad. The overall trend was lighter weight construction and durability has suffered. I used to wear out soles, now I wear out uppers. In the last 5 or 6 years, the New Balance trail runners have switched over to service ultra trail runners, super light but the trade off is lousy durability. New Balance does still make some good light weight trailshoes that are durable but the you cant go by the 800 series anymore. If you look around on their website look for shoes with AT soles and that usually gets you close.

With respect to heavy boots and ankle issues, its sound completely counterintuitive that low cut boots would be better than high cut heavy boots but in my and several others experience its the truth. Tall heavy boots transfer the loads away from the muscular in the foot and load up the ankle when on uneven terrain. Using low cut shoes the bottom of the foot matches the angle of the terrain and most important this musculature gets developed. With my low cut trail runners, I may roll an foot on occasion but its just momentary "on cr*p" and I keep hiking. When I used to roll a foot with heavy boots I would be limping for a week.

By the way, I always keep a new pair in reserve. I don't break them in they really don't need it. I have taken new pairs to go hiking and backpacking at Baxter Stare Park in maine and they have no issue.

Limmer does make mid and lightweight version of their boots. They are still much heavier than train runners but are far more durable. They dont make my width so I haven't tried them.

DuneElliot

01-20-2017, 15:47

With respect to heavy boots and ankle issues, its sound completely counterintuitive that low cut boots would be better than high cut heavy boots but in my and several others experience its the truth. Tall heavy boots transfer the loads away from the muscular in the foot and load up the ankle when on uneven terrain. Using low cut shoes the bottom of the foot matches the angle of the terrain and most important this musculature gets developed. With my low cut trail runners, I may roll an foot on occasion but its just momentary "on cr*p" and I keep hiking. When I used to roll a foot with heavy boots I would be limping for a week.

Ankles are made to move in all directions and while a bad roll can be painful and dangerous, in general that is the way our legs are supposed to work. If the ankle can't roll as it is supposed to when it needs to that movement can transfer up the leg and force the knee to bend in a way it shouldn't, or put extra stress on other ligaments and muscles that shouldn't be bearing that kind of unusual movement.

peakbagger

01-20-2017, 16:28

Talk to any doctor who works with skiers, as the boots got stiffer and taller the forces shifted upwards creating different injuries higher up like knees. Folks used to break legs now they blow out knees.

BobTheBuilder

01-20-2017, 16:53

As the best shoe tester in the world, I used to hike in the exact same Merrills, but now am hiking in the exact same Keens. The Keens are a little more comfortable for me because the toe box is a little wider. That's it. I could hike in reasonable comfort on the AT with both.

higuy111

01-21-2017, 06:27

Thank you for a very detailed reply! I understand about having boots as lightweight as possible. Although, it's still awesome to have a pair of tough leather boots isn't it?

I have a quiver of shoes for hiking; some very durable and some really light weight and a bunch in between. Good luck with your search, this is what I can tell you:

My Merrells (low tops) are super comfy for "day to day" use but a little too squishy hiking for me... kinda wide.

Northface (low tops) *3rd pair, pretty light and great fit with a decent "shank" for rocky terrain but this is my 3rd pair and usually only use them for day hikes

Lasportiva (mids) insanely light, so comfortable. I wanna wear thees almost everyday during the week. Not what I would use again on super rocky terrain as the sole does not have a very structured shank so foot placement on sharp edged rocks is not so good but doable if careful

Saloman (low tops) eh, a little too narrow for me and not real light; bought em on a whim as they were on sale for super cheap... Not my preference

LaSportiva Omega GTX (high tops) Love em, awesome support but my second heaviest boot. Support galore, near bomber build, fit my feet great.

Asolo 520 (high tops) *3rd pair but I barely wear this pair since finding lighter boots. Bomber, bomber, bomber and you will feel the strength of this all leather boot with each step... it feels like you have ankle weights on after finding a lighter boot.

Just because 100 people say "yadda" boot is the best does not mean that is the one for your foot or hiking style. Find what is comfortable for you with your usual pack weight and enjoy... they are gonna wear out.

37958

Traveler

01-21-2017, 06:37

Thank you for a very detailed reply! I understand about having boots as lightweight as possible. Although, it's still awesome to have a pair of tough leather boots isn't it?

For me its a good idea to have a pair of tough leather boots. A lot of people have different footwear for different conditions as you can see from the thread so far. I use my heavy leather boots for winter hiking conditions (below 20 degrees and/or if ice or snow is present where I may have to use snowshoes or traction devices), bushwhacking, and hikes that take me above timberline into rock, talus, and scree. For other seasons and types of terrain I will typically shift to a lower shoe or runner.

LongBlaze2019

01-21-2017, 09:18

I do have a pair of thicker leather boots that I hike in during the spring. Especially late spring when the Copperheads get really thick. The rest of the year it's either my S2V trail runners or my S2V boots.

Sent from my N9519 using Tapatalk

Engine

01-21-2017, 09:24

Ankles are made to move in all directions and while a bad roll can be painful and dangerous, in general that is the way our legs are supposed to work. If the ankle can't roll as it is supposed to when it needs to that movement can transfer up the leg and force the knee to bend in a way it shouldn't, or put extra stress on other ligaments and muscles that shouldn't be bearing that kind of unusual movement. This is very true. I was hiking behind my wife the other day and I watched her ankle roll significantly a few times. It was significant enough I mentioned it to her because I know it would have been painful to me and she replied that she didn't notice it. Flexible ankles are a blessing I guess...

PhoenixFire

01-21-2017, 10:08

I could not agree with this statement more. Excellent chosen name.

Feral Bill

01-21-2017, 15:19

[QUOTE=... it's still awesome to have a pair of tough leather boots isn't it?[/QUOTE] As long as they are not on your feet:).

ggreaves

01-21-2017, 17:19

I have the Salomon 4D GTX, which I really like. However, if you're serious about combating potential blisters, I'd stay away from anything with Goretex. If you get boots or shoes that breathe properly (and anything that's waterproof will NOT breathe in spite of what you've had drilled into your head by marketers), any moisture inside the boot will be driven out by the heat inside. Goretex, or any waterproof barrier, also acts as a vapor barrier and will keep hot feet wet and that will allow blisters to form more easily. This would be my boot of choice... Same fit and performance as the regular 4D's but without the Goretex so your feet will breathe and stay drier over time.

https://www.us-elitegear.com/salomon-forces-quest-4d

George

01-21-2017, 23:11

Traveler

01-22-2017, 08:36

basic problem with "tough / durable / supportive " boots

the sole is stiff and flexes considerably less than the foot

this causes the heel of the foot to "work / rub " against the heel of the boot - almost universally resulting in blisters

30 yrs ago when most hikers did 7-10 mi days this caused less issues - now 15 - 20 mi days are more common

(the skin can repair itself better after 10,000 "rubs" per day than 20,000)

light running shoes flex with the foot from day 1 (no break in) but have a dramatically shorter life - as little as 250 mi

choose your compromise

Chafing blisters are indeed "universal" to all boots and shoes, not just heavier leather boots. Some of the worst heel blisters I have experienced have come from trail shoes and runners.

The cure is to reduce or eliminate blister potential is in the selection process, what type of sock(s) should be worn with with each type of footgear, and how to lace footgear appropriately to control foot movement. 30 years ago I was doing 15+ miles per day in heavy boots, which is not a new phenomenon brought on by makers of light shoes.

I do use trail shoes and runners along with the heavier leather boots, they each have unique functions and are used based on many factors including terrain, weather, and load estimations. Using footwear is a lot like learning how to use any other bit of gear or equipment one has with them.

DuneElliot

01-22-2017, 10:10

Chafing blisters are indeed "universal" to all boots and shoes, not just heavier leather boots.

That issue is not all encompassing and does not apply across the board. With the right trail runners (Salomon Speedcross) I have never had a blister in all the miles I have spend hiking and backpacking.

MuddyWaters

01-22-2017, 12:07

Chafing blisters are indeed "universal" to all boots and shoes, not just heavier leather boots. Some of the worst heel blisters I have experienced have come from trail shoes and runners.
.

Nope.
Blisters are due to many factors
But at reasonable distances feet can condition to on daily basis, they are 100% preventable.

.

I was told that fit / comfort is paramount in not getting blisters. Second is keeping your feet dry.

Maybe...skin is softer when waterlogged. But having hiked multiple days straight with feet wet all day, and never having blister, this is also not totally true, although it can be a serious issue in some circumstances. More applicable to ultra marathon runners, than hiking imo.

I ran 5.5 miles a couple days ago , in rain, feet perfectly happy, no blisters.

Good fit is #1
Can you ever have good fit with thick sock? Nope. Thin tight weave.
Wide toebox so toes dont rub on anything, including each other. The toes move with every step
Snug heel that locks shoe into place
Breatheable mesh shoe. You should feel the wind blow. Nice and cool.
Insole and shoe that works with your feet. Inside should be flat. Many are tilted to help build in arch support.
Light pack, trim body
Clean socks. Thin. Cool. Breezy.

Blisters are tearing of skin away from meat. Pressure. Due to excessive weight, wt carried, repetitions, or friction from poor fit all work against you. Skin doesnt get tougher when you gain 50 lb....

What works at 10 mpd, might not at 20
What works at. 20 lb pack, may not at 40

Many have proven, well fitting breatheable shoes and light wt is all needed fo 20-30 mpd hiking, with no blisters. But the circus of liners, thick socks, boots, goretex , lubricants still continues. Someones doing something right, and someones apparently not. You CAN learn from people that hike thousands of miles per year , if you try.

Secondmouse

01-22-2017, 12:56

I agree with the statement that a stiff sole will cause more back-of-the-heel friction than one more flexible.

my first "real" hiking boot was the Vasque Hiker II. other boots derived from Mountaineering boots and actually had a steel or otherwise hardened shank, made for standing in sling ladders. you could feel these move up and down your heel with every step and were guaranteed heel blisters...

for the OP, if you want to try a more supportive and durable shoe that I have found very comfortable and surprisingly affordable is the HiTec Altitude. the come either Water Proof or not.

I got a pair yeeeeears ago and use them for everything, even daily wear and they are still serviceable. they don't look so good now but I still use them as my grass cutting boots and they're still comfortable...

higuy111

01-23-2017, 16:43

Hi! Is that a new info? I never heard about it...

Ankles are made to move in all directions and while a bad roll can be painful and dangerous, in general that is the way our legs are supposed to work. If the ankle can't roll as it is supposed to when it needs to that movement can transfer up the leg and force the knee to bend in a way it shouldn't, or put extra stress on other ligaments and muscles that shouldn't be bearing that kind of unusual movement.

DuneElliot

01-23-2017, 16:49

Hi! Is that a new info? I never heard about it...

Well think about it...ankles move 360*, knees don't. If your ankle doesn't roll the way it needs to due to the preventative structure of a stiff boot, something else has to give and that something is often not designed to move in that direction. This is not an argument for or against boots, but a thought about how the body works.

Rabbi

01-23-2017, 19:37

I hike in boots. Danners no less! The horror!!!

You are the only one that is going to be standing in your boots or shoes. You are the only one that will know what works for you. At the end of the day, if you got as far as you wanted and intended to go while walking, it's a good day and you made the right decision in footwear.

Wear whatever trips your trigger.

higuy111

01-24-2017, 05:53

May I ask, why is it that now longer hikes are more common that 30 years ago?

basic problem with "tough / durable / supportive " boots

the sole is stiff and flexes considerably less than the foot

this causes the heel of the foot to "work / rub " against the heel of the boot - almost universally resulting in blisters

30 yrs ago when most hikers did 7-10 mi days this caused less issues - now 15 - 20 mi days are more common

(the skin can repair itself better after 10,000 "rubs" per day than 20,000)

light running shoes flex with the foot from day 1 (no break in) but have a dramatically shorter life - as little as 250 mi

choose your compromise

higuy111

01-24-2017, 05:56

Well, then ankle support makes no sense... Isn't it possible to strengthen ankles so they wouldn't need support? Or is it still safer to have ankle support, even though knees are in danger?

That's really interesting info, thank you :)

Well think about it...ankles move 360*, knees don't. If your ankle doesn't roll the way it needs to due to the preventative structure of a stiff boot, something else has to give and that something is often not designed to move in that direction. This is not an argument for or against boots, but a thought about how the body works.

higuy111

01-24-2017, 05:57

Thanks for the tip :) You know, it's really interesting to read different opinions. Makes me think :D

I hike in boots. Danners no less! The horror!!!

You are the only one that is going to be standing in your boots or shoes. You are the only one that will know what works for you. At the end of the day, if you got as far as you wanted and intended to go while walking, it's a good day and you made the right decision in footwear.

Wear whatever trips your trigger.

cmoulder

01-24-2017, 06:58

Thanks for the tip :) You know, it's really interesting to read different opinions. Makes me think :D

A pound of experience is worth more than a ton of advice.

Time to go hike. Lots of great hiking in PA. Get some shoes/boots/trailrunners/whatever and head up to Pine Creek Gorge... smooth trails by PA standards. ;)

MtDoraDave

01-24-2017, 08:20

Traveler

01-24-2017, 08:28

Why do people hike further today than they did 30 years ago?

Probably lighter equipment. 10 or 15 lbs removed from your back and 2 lbs removed from your feet saves a lot of energy per step... (be careful, there are engineers on this site who may just break that down into energy per step with formulas you have no hope in understanding!!!! )

I am not sure everyone is hiking further today than 30 years ago, certainly some who are doing long distance walks are. More miles per day may be an issue of conditioning, under the more you do it the better you get doctrine. Conditioning coupled with gear suitable to the level of conditioning is probably a legitimate connection but may not be the driving factor.

Likely a combination of things, with available recreational time being near the top of the list that was not as high in the 80s. The issue of gear being lighter is probably part of it along with it being its far more accessible to not only buy but the costs itself with internet and big box retailers that did not exist 30 years ago.