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sethd513
01-21-2017, 08:20
I'm looking for a frameless pack with about 50-55 liters. I'm leaning toward the cdt as it would be my 6th bag from them and they are bomb proof. It seems like building a zpacks zero bag that is comparable is twice the cost and only a few oz lighter. Is there any advice out there for people in the same situation


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Cheyou
01-21-2017, 08:55
You can't order a zero now they are redesigning it. The CDT is a great bag if you are under 18lbs total weight .

Thom

MtDoraDave
01-21-2017, 09:06
Have you looked into the hyperlite packs?

https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/3400-windrider.html

sethd513
01-21-2017, 09:30
You can't order a zero now they are redesigning it. The CDT is a great bag if you are under 18lbs total weight .

Thom

Do you know what they are doing to the zero and how long it's unavailable? My total weight for the intended use of this bag with food for my wife and I in my ohm is 17lbs with our duplex and ground sheet. It would be much less with a tarp or bivy depending. Also I might start making her carry some food since her bag has pretty much just sleep stuff in this case.


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sethd513
01-21-2017, 09:34
Have you looked into the hyperlite packs?

https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/3400-windrider.html

I have and every time I see them on the trail I really like them and want one but the weight to cost ratio on this pack is going to be the deciding factor I think. I don't have any dyneema gear in the closet and I feel like a Cuban pack would have me worried if the trail got dense and tight.


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Rain Man
01-21-2017, 09:35
... my 6th bag from them and they are bomb proof. ...

You're 28 and have gone through 6 bags from one manufacturer? Somehow, that doesn't seem evidence of bombproof to these eyes as I read this. What am I missing?

ScareBear
01-21-2017, 10:05
At 24 ounces, you are getting what you are paying for...ultralite and ultra-low load capability(18lbs...1 gallon of water is 8.4 pounds...). I guess this works for you, but limits your pack selection possibilities....ZPacks ArcHaul GridStop...better weight capacity same pack weight...or MLD Exodus, if you are stuck on superlite frameless packs...same weight limit issues as the CDT, but it weighs a half-pound less, neither are Cuben Fibre but both are some kind of Dyneema weave...

It's just me, but for the weight, comfort and capacity, I'd be going with the ZPacks ArcHaul GridStop...in fact, I will be shortly!

Cheyou
01-21-2017, 10:50
Zimmerbuilt has great stuff.

Thom

johnspenn
01-21-2017, 11:02
You can still get the SMD Fusion 50L, previous model, for $100 last I checked. Close in weight to the CDT but the structure makes it able to carry a much heavier load comfortably.

I recently bought a used CDT, took it on a day hike of 8ish miles and purposely overloaded it. I'd guesstimate about 22-25 lbs of gear and water. I didn't have any issues with comfort. YMMV

Cheyou
01-21-2017, 11:29
Have no idea what zpacks is doing . My base weight with the CDT was less then 10lbs for 3 season multi day hike . if your base weight is more then 10lbs I would not use a frameless pack. I have zpacks stuff but have not drank the cool aid with their framed packs.

Thom

q-tip
01-21-2017, 12:04
Granite Gear Crown VC , 60 l, 34 oz, $200, Best pack for the wt/$ out there.

ScareBear
01-21-2017, 12:18
Granite Gear Crown VC , 60 l, 34 oz, $200, Best pack for the wt/$ out there.

On sale for $160 right now...

sethd513
01-21-2017, 12:52
You're 28 and have gone through 6 bags from one manufacturer? Somehow, that doesn't seem evidence of bombproof to these eyes as I read this. What am I missing?

No my wife and I each have a catalyst for winter. We each started with ohms for 3 season. Last year I wanted to get a smaller lighter bag and got the fast pack. She loves the fit and can't even feel it on her back. It's a pinch to small for me if I'm solo


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sethd513
01-21-2017, 12:54
Rain man. No my wife and I each have a catalyst for winter. We each started with ohms for 3 season. Last year I wanted to get a smaller lighter bag and got the fast pack. She loves the fit and can't even feel it on her back. It's a pinch to small for me if I'm solo


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sethd513
01-21-2017, 13:03
At 24 ounces, you are getting what you are paying for...ultralite and ultra-low load capability(18lbs...1 gallon of water is 8.4 pounds...). I guess this works for you, but limits your pack selection possibilities....ZPacks ArcHaul GridStop...better weight capacity same pack weight...or MLD Exodus, if you are stuck on superlite frameless packs...same weight limit issues as the CDT, but it weighs a half-pound less, neither are Cuben Fibre but both are some kind of Dyneema weave...

It's just me, but for the weight, comfort and capacity, I'd be going with the ZPacks ArcHaul GridStop...in fact, I will be shortly!

I'm planning on removing everything as I do with all my ula bags with the cdt. Also I was looking at it in yellow without the grid stop. Hopefully putting me at 18oz. I understand though how these packs have their limitations. Thanks for all the input so far everyone.


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sethd513
01-21-2017, 13:06
Scarebear. I'm planning on removing everything as I do with all my ula bags with the cdt. Also I was looking at it in yellow without the grid stop. Hopefully putting me at 18oz. I understand though how these packs have their limitations. Thanks for all the input so far everyone.


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Patrickjd9
01-21-2017, 16:49
You're 28 and have gone through 6 bags from one manufacturer? Somehow, that doesn't seem evidence of bombproof to these eyes as I read this. What am I missing?

I've been backpacking for 35 years, and am shopping for overnight pack number 3. This is probably an unfair comparison as #1 is a Kelty frame pack that I could take off the wall and use tomorrow if I actually needed that much space.

sethd513
01-21-2017, 17:21
I've been backpacking for 35 years, and am shopping for overnight pack number 3. This is probably an unfair comparison as #1 is a Kelty frame pack that I could take off the wall and use tomorrow if I actually needed that much space.

Im this is way with everything. Thank you.


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Patrickjd9
01-21-2017, 18:26
Granite Gear Crown VC , 60 l, 34 oz, $200, Best pack for the wt/$ out there.
There's supposed to be an update to this pack for the spring. If it's out in time for my spring section hikes, I'll probably buy one.

http://journal.granitegear.com/2016/09/crown2-wins-best-in-show-at-summer-outdoor-retailer-2016/

egilbe
01-21-2017, 18:38
You can still get the SMD Fusion 50L, previous model, for $100 last I checked. Close in weight to the CDT but the structure makes it able to carry a much heavier load comfortably.

I recently bought a used CDT, took it on a day hike of 8ish miles and purposely overloaded it. I'd guesstimate about 22-25 lbs of gear and water. I didn't have any issues with comfort. YMMV

Fusion 50 is a 40 liter pack.

saltysack
01-21-2017, 19:18
I've only loaded my new MLD prophet and worn around house with about 18-20 lbs Its more comfortable than my circuit or gorilla. Again this is first impression wearing for less than an hour...very impressed with its comfort....Very well made! Although I've been very pleased with all three. Rons shoulder strap pads are awesome!


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AfterParty
01-21-2017, 19:44
I just got the hmg southwest and love it and its quite durable in black. I still need to test it but seems quite strong.

johnspenn
01-21-2017, 20:12
Fusion 50 is a 40 liter pack.

I haven't tried to measure it. I can say I took it on a three day AT trip, carried all my gear, food for two, and some of my wife's gear (she was having knee trouble) and it all fit. 35ish lbs and carried like a dream.

ScareBear
01-21-2017, 20:17
I think he means the main bag is 40L. That's pretty standard on a 50L bag, me thinks...

Engine
01-22-2017, 06:50
At 24 ounces, you are getting what you are paying for...ultralite and ultra-low load capability(18lbs...1 gallon of water is 8.4 pounds...). I guess this works for you, but limits your pack selection possibilities....ZPacks ArcHaul GridStop...better weight capacity same pack weight...or MLD Exodus, if you are stuck on superlite frameless packs...same weight limit issues as the CDT, but it weighs a half-pound less, neither are Cuben Fibre but both are some kind of Dyneema weave...

It's just me, but for the weight, comfort and capacity, I'd be going with the ZPacks ArcHaul GridStop...in fact, I will be shortly!

+1

I have the Arc Haul in dyneema. It's super tough, and I forget I'm wearing it with 22-24 pounds in it.

ScareBear
01-22-2017, 10:13
Talk about forgetting about wearing a pack...yesterday my daughter and I did a 6 mile loop that is about as challenging as it gets around here and I was wearing the Klymit35. Once I had the air frame dialed in, I completely forgot I had it on until the end. No adjustments once underway. 13 pounds wet. I am still trying to get this thing dialed in for a two or three nighter on the AT, summer only. I think I can do it. Probably max weight for that will be 20 pounds wet with 3L and food...may have to hang a Nalgene canteen or MSD dromo on the pack for that trick...

Secondmouse
01-22-2017, 13:25
Fusion 50 is a 40 liter pack.

somewhat true...

it is a 50 liter pack but it effectively/realistically works like a 40. the roll-top cuts into the computed volume and the pockets are really tiny. the 65L is similar in this regard. my son's 50 liter Kelty Redwing will hold about as much.

excellent packs for the $/lb, as long as you're aware of the sizing...

egilbe
01-22-2017, 16:13
The outside pockets on my old style fusion 50 and 65 are almost useless. Its the major reason why they were redesigned. But, for ~ $100, they are hard to beat nd they do ride comfortably.

Secondmouse
01-22-2017, 16:56
The outside pockets on my old style fusion 50 and 65 are almost useless. Its the major reason why they were redesigned. But, for ~ $100, they are hard to beat nd they do ride comfortably.

true. true. you know it's a bad design when your side pocket can hold a 20oz bottle of water, and a flattened roll of TP OR a Sawyer mini water filter and collapsible bag, but not all three...

cmoulder
01-23-2017, 11:28
The outside pockets on my old style fusion 50 and 65 are almost useless. Its the major reason why they were redesigned. But, for ~ $100, they are hard to beat nd they do ride comfortably.

Glad to hear about the redesign, however no matter how attractive the price I'm not going to buy something that has an annoying issue with a very basic feature such as a water bottle pocket, which is going to bug the crap out of me many times each and every day. Certainly not as big an issue for those who use water bladders or shoulder strap holders, granted.

JC13
01-23-2017, 12:01
I've had no issues with 2 1-ltr smartwater bottles and tent poles in one side and 2 1-ltr smartwaters in the other on the 2014 fusion 50.

ScareBear
01-23-2017, 12:05
Glad to hear about the redesign, however no matter how attractive the price I'm not going to buy something that has an annoying issue with a very basic feature such as a water bottle pocket, which is going to bug the crap out of me many times each and every day. Certainly not as big an issue for those who use water bladders or shoulder strap holders, granted.

The biggest hydration related thing I carry in a side pocket is a 500ml water bottle with an electrolyte solution. Almost always use a bladder, on top of all other gear in the pack or hung on the back dromo-style. The things I DO carry in the side pocket need to work with the pack, but are narrow...tent pole sack, z-pad seat, etc...

I've yet to find a pack that I can grab a water bottle out of a side pocket while wearing the pack, fully loaded, and be able to put it back in said pocket. Without loosening anything or shifting the pack. YMMV...

cmoulder
01-23-2017, 12:41
I've yet to find a pack that I can grab a water bottle out of a side pocket while wearing the pack, fully loaded, and be able to put it back in said pocket. Without loosening anything or shifting the pack. YMMV...

I do that all the time with Arc Blast/Haul using 32oz Gatorade bottles, and last weekend with a Zero (also with 32oz Gatorade).

Secondmouse
01-23-2017, 13:17
The biggest hydration related thing I carry in a side pocket is a 500ml water bottle with an electrolyte solution. Almost always use a bladder, on top of all other gear in the pack or hung on the back dromo-style. The things I DO carry in the side pocket need to work with the pack, but are narrow...tent pole sack, z-pad seat, etc...

I've yet to find a pack that I can grab a water bottle out of a side pocket while wearing the pack, fully loaded, and be able to put it back in said pocket. Without loosening anything or shifting the pack. YMMV...

yes, it's next to impossible to replace a bottle in the pockets of the old version SMD 65L pack while moving.

In one pocket I keep my Sawyer filter and 64oz collapsible bag and a full 20oz bottle for drink mixing but that's only for when stopped. I rely on a bladder more with this pack...

sethd513
01-23-2017, 13:24
I do that all the time with Arc Blast/Haul using 32oz Gatorade bottles, and last weekend with a Zero (also with 32oz Gatorade).[/COLOR]

I'm half thinking I should just get a bag from their bargin bin as it will be the same size just a little more comfortable if my weight it high. Same price and I don't have to wait till march


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cmoulder
01-23-2017, 14:42
Also register at LightweightHiker (https://lwhiker.com/used-gear-search) and set an alert or check in regularly, and perhaps also ebay and other gear listings

.
I'm half thinking I should just get a bag from their bargin bin as it will be the same size just a little more comfortable if my weight it high. Same price and I don't have to wait till march


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ScareBear
01-23-2017, 14:53
yes, it's next to impossible to replace a bottle in the pockets of the old version SMD 65L pack while moving.

In one pocket I keep my Sawyer filter and 64oz collapsible bag and a full 20oz bottle for drink mixing but that's only for when stopped. I rely on a bladder more with this pack...

As an aside, but relevant, I think I have the Klymit 35L ready for summer on the AT. Everything fit inside that needed to be inside, but I will hang a MSR dromo off the back. In the left side pocket fit the tent poles and the 500ml electrolyte bottle, the other side pocket got the Zpad seat. Looks like it will come in at 11 pounds dry, no food....not too shabby for a 35L pack!!!

Secondmouse
01-24-2017, 02:23
As an aside, but relevant, I think I have the Klymit 35L ready for summer on the AT. Everything fit inside that needed to be inside, but I will hang a MSR dromo off the back. In the left side pocket fit the tent poles and the 500ml electrolyte bottle, the other side pocket got the Zpad seat. Looks like it will come in at 11 pounds dry, no food....not too shabby for a 35L pack!!!

you mean the Motion 35 with the air frame? good luck, that's going to be tight...

ScareBear
01-24-2017, 04:56
you mean the Motion 35 with the air frame? good luck, that's going to be tight...

Yep. Got it done. 45 degree bag, 3.2R air mat, cook kit(stove, kettle, canister, windscreen, lighter, Ti spoon), FirstNeed purifier, first aid kit(clotting powder, surgi pads, duct tape, meds, sew kit, space blanket), camp kit(head lamp, phone, battery pack, journal/pen, wetfire, matches, toothbrush, baking soda), sleep clothes(tshirt, boxer briefs, liner socks), cuben fibre food bag w/ 50' slickline....and here's the kicker....the body and fly to my BA FlyCreekUL3, all on the inside!!!! Everything but the purifier and the bear bag go inside a 20L eVent dry bag. On the outside are the tent poles/stakes in one side pocket and a 500L water bottle and Zpad seat in the other side pocket. The outside zipper pocket holds my MH rain jacket and Marmot Precip pants along with my Gerber Dime. I rigged a 3L Camelback bladder to the lower part of the outside using some shock cord and push clip I had lying around. Dry without food, but all gear and pack, comes in at 14.8 pounds. Keep in mind that I am using this rig for no longer than 3 nights in the summer(June-September) on the AT. I could shave a good 1.5 to 2 pounds with a one-person tent, but that's not really on the short list of new gear desires right now...

The pack seems balanced just fine. With food and 3L water, max load should 22 to 24 pounds. Completely doable weight with this pack...

I omitted a rain cover from the weight calculation...my bad...will have to get a cuben from Z...

Secondmouse
01-24-2017, 11:54
Yep. Got it done. 45 degree bag, 3.2R air mat, cook kit(stove, kettle, canister, windscreen, lighter, Ti spoon), FirstNeed purifier, first aid kit(clotting powder, surgi pads, duct tape, meds, sew kit, space blanket), camp kit(head lamp, phone, battery pack, journal/pen, wetfire, matches, toothbrush, baking soda), sleep clothes(tshirt, boxer briefs, liner socks), cuben fibre food bag w/ 50' slickline....and here's the kicker....the body and fly to my BA FlyCreekUL3, all on the inside!!!! Everything but the purifier and the bear bag go inside a 20L eVent dry bag. On the outside are the tent poles/stakes in one side pocket and a 500L water bottle and Zpad seat in the other side pocket. The outside zipper pocket holds my MH rain jacket and Marmot Precip pants along with my Gerber Dime. I rigged a 3L Camelback bladder to the lower part of the outside using some shock cord and push clip I had lying around. Dry without food, but all gear and pack, comes in at 14.8 pounds. Keep in mind that I am using this rig for no longer than 3 nights in the summer(June-September) on the AT. I could shave a good 1.5 to 2 pounds with a one-person tent, but that's not really on the short list of new gear desires right now...

The pack seems balanced just fine. With food and 3L water, max load should 22 to 24 pounds. Completely doable weight with this pack...

I omitted a rain cover from the weight calculation...my bad...will have to get a cuben from Z...

that's pretty impressive. how much do you inflate the air bladder?..

ScareBear
01-24-2017, 12:08
I find it has to be partially inflated prior to beginning packing. That is to make sure the air frame fills up all its allotted space and isn't bound up. I'd say that is about 20 to 25 percent? Then after loading probably another 50 percent? I am guessing at 75 percent of the total capacity with this load and packing configuration...

Once the compression straps are cinched down tight, there isn't a lot of movement or noise. Very tidy...

ScareBear
01-24-2017, 12:14
If I left out the rain gear and went with a poncho I'd save another pound or so...

Secondmouse
01-26-2017, 04:04
If I left out the rain gear and went with a poncho I'd save another pound or so...

I'm 50-50 with the poncho. a rain jacket for cooler weather but a poncho that goes over me and my pack for the summer.

another benefit of the poncho is I can place it over the end of my hammock as a wind/water break if it's coming in from that direction...