Packs and water

[penny b]

ok I went and got fitted for a pack today and really got a good idea what I want in my pack as of what i want for different features but .... I tried on a 50L but seems small to be able to fit everything for up to 5-7 days on the trail. I am also new to this hiking adventures so my question would be is a 50L workable or should I go 60-65L size pack?

Also looking into different water filtration systems ... what works best for you ? I know what works for one may not be best for another but i would love some feed back here . I was thinking the gravity so i can set up camp and all while filtering but then also thought of the ones we squeeze so not have to wait .

[la.lindsey]

My pack is a 55l pack. Most of the time it is not near capacity. In winter, with two sleeping pads and somehow 7 pairs of socks and micro spikes and a book and a whole bunch of other crap...yeah, things got pretty full (40 days, generally 5 days between resupply). But unless you buy a lot of bulky gear, most of the time, 50L will be just fine.

That said, I hiked with a guy who had a 70L pack and STILL had things tied to the outside, so, you know, know thyself.


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[la.lindsey]

And re: water: I have gone from sawyer mini in line to mini with bottles to no filter to a full size sawyer to no filter to chlorine tabs to no filter.

Just pick one, you'll probably change your mind later. I'd start cheap.


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[penny b]

i still need to get all my gear and want to just take what i need and not so much " I might need this .... " and figure out how what a actual lay out in a pack should look like or general as everyone is different.

Thank you :)

[Sarcasm the elf]

If you only plan to own on pack, get the 65L. Just remember that you don't have to fill it up the whole way.

[penny b]

i still need to get all my gear and want to just take what i need and not so much " I might need this .... " and figure out how what a actual lay out in a pack should look like or general as everyone is different. any feed back on the antigravity feature ?

Thank you :)

[DuneElliot]

I can fit enough into my 50L SMD Fusion for 6 days. It's tight but it can be done, but your gear is going to determine whether it will work for you. I have very light-weight gear that packs down small.

But as Elf says, if you are only going to have one pack and you don't have the rest of your gear 65L would be a good way to go. You can always leave your quilt/sleeping bag unstuffed at the bottom to fill the space.

[HooKooDooKu]

Also looking into different water filtration systems ... what works best for you ? I know what works for one may not be best for another but i would love some feed back here . I was thinking the gravity so i can set up camp and all while filtering but then also thought of the ones we squeeze so not have to wait .
Get the Sawyer Mini, and with a few accessories, you can do it either way.

What I did was to get an Evernew Water Carry, a Platypus Hoser, and (optionally) some food-grade silicone tubing (actually, I repurposed the tubing from my old MSR Sweetwater Filter).

Use the Evernew as your 'dirty water' bag because the threads properly fit the Sawyer (Platypus uses a custom thread pitch, so you can only screw the two together by about 3/4 of a turn... not a tight fitting that is prone to leaking). Use a hole punch to cut a perfect circle in the margins of the Evernew bag. Loop a piece of cord thru the hole so that you will be able to hang the bag.

Use the Platypus Hoser as your 'clean water' bag. Simply remove the bite valve and you can (with a little effort) slide the open end of the hose over the output nipple of the Sawyer Mini. Better yet, replace the tubing with the silicone tubing. The silicone tubing should be lighter, and coils up easier for storage (the hose that comes with the Platypus is thick and stiff to aid in use with backpack hydration pouches). It will be easier to get the tubing on the barb fitting if you lubricate it with a water-based 'personal lubricant'... (cleans easily by rinsing the inside of the tubing with water).

[Slo-go'en]

No, get the big Sawyer, it's well worth the little extra money and size. Most people find the mini is too slow and clogs too fast. Of course, you can use either as a squeeze or gravity feed. Since I don't use bladders (and you need two of them for gravity feed) I just use the squeeze filter when I don't think I should drink the water direct from the source, which I do most of the time (drink direct from the source that is).

60-65L packs are a good average size for a 3 season AT thru hike. An experience hiker who is comfortable with minimalist and ultra light gear can get away with 45-50L, especially in the summer months when you need a bit less to stay comfortable, but for the average hiker 50L is too small. Of course, it also depends a bit on how big a person you are as that will to some extent affect the size of some of the stuff you need.

[DuneElliot]

I'd take the Squeeze over the Mini, but either works for use as an inline, squeeze or gravity filter. I use the connector rings so I can attach my Smartwater bottle to the bottom of my Squeeze and if I'm feeling lazy I can hang my Evernew bag, attach the filter, attach the bottle and let gravity do it's work.

[ScareBear]

Granite Gear VC Crown 60 should be all the pack you need for the AT, both size and weight wise...see if you can try one on...

[map man]

I have gotten my base weight down to between eleven and twelve pounds for spring or fall hiking -- not ultralight but definitely light by the standards of what I see people carrying on the trails I hike -- and I use a 63 liter pack (the ULA Ohm 2.0) and wouldn't want to go any smaller. Since you say you are "new to these hiking adventures" I would not try to go smaller than the 60-65 liter range you mention.

[Engine]

If you only plan to own on pack, get the 65L. Just remember that you don't have to fill it up the whole way. +1 on this. I carried a GG Vapor Trail for a number of years and that thing had an enormous bag which I never filled 70% to capacity...but it was there if I needed it.

[Time Zone]

How big you are as a person can make a difference too. A person 6'1" and 180 lbs is going to need more space for clothes, sleeping bag & pad (long vs. regular), food, and maybe even tent, than someone 5'6" and 120 lbs. Just a 10% difference in height could translate to 33% difference in volume. In fact, volume and weight are probably more closely related, so a 50% difference between those two is possible. Granted, not everything in the pack would need to be larger (stove, compass, first aid kit) but a good chunk of it proportions upward to some degree. So one person's 55L pack may easily be another's 70L pack, without the latter person packing any more "fears" than the former.

[bigcranky]

Get the big Sawyer, it is well worth the extra ounce - the flow rate is significantly faster. We used a Mini on a month long hike for two people and fought it the whole way.

55 liters should be enough for modern lightweight gear. If you're carrying traditional gear (4 lb tent, 4 lb synthetic bag, etc.) then it's not large enough.

[Tipi Walter]

I'd go with the bigger pack as 7 days of food comes to around 14 lbs---and you may want to throw in a cantaloupe or a head of cabbage or even . . . . a . . . . watermelon. Maybe a book you could read and burn. Or some extra clothing for a future winter trip.

As far as a water filter, well, I'm partial to a pump filter which enables you to pull up water from tiny seep pools without stirring up sediment and silt---which will clog your Sawyers. In our last significant drought I needed my Hiker filter to gather clean water from tiny pools---not easily done with a Sawyer---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2016-Trips-171/Four-Trails-of-the-Apocalypse/i-rbhwcGT/0/XL/P1000041-XL.jpg
Here's a typical seep pool you may have to get water out of during dry times. With careful placement a pump filter will extract clean water whereas a dipping cup for the Sawyer will stir up all sorts of mud.

[HooKooDooKu]

I'd go with the bigger pack as 7 days of food comes to around 14 lbs---and you may want to throw in a cantaloupe or a head of cabbage or even . . . . a . . . . watermelon. Maybe a book you could read and burn. Or some extra clothing for a future winter trip.

As far as a water filter, well, I'm partial to a pump filter which enables you to pull up water from tiny seep pools without stirring up sediment and silt---which will clog your Sawyers. In our last significant drought I needed my Hiker filter to gather clean water from tiny pools---not easily done with a Sawyer---
[Picture]
Here's a typical seep pool you may have to get water out of during dry times. With careful placement a pump filter will extract clean water whereas a dipping cup for the Sawyer will stir up all sorts of mud.
I must admit that this was something that kept me from transitioning from a pump to the Sawyer.

But now that I've been using a Sawyer for a couple of years, I've found that I've done OK. There have been times when a pump would have made things easier and faster, and I can't disparage anyone who prefers that method over another. But over all, the reduction in weight (and not having to pump because I use it in gravity mode) has made the transition over-all worth it to me.

[blw2]

side question,
why is the sawyer so much more popular than the platytpus? It seems to be more popular anyway....

[blw2]

and on the pack question.... I'm certainly a novice, not having backpacked in years.... but here's my thoughts ion this, as I'm gearing up to get back into it. Curious about your comments on this idea...
I tend to be a pack rat and over pack.... not just backpacking, but tailgate camping, or even general travel too. I have struggled to get everything into my current pack for little weekend scout troop type plop camping camp outs, and as I am looking to upgrade my pack with something better and lighter, my thought is to not buy too big. The more space I have the more likely I might be to carry something I can live without.... I like the idea of having a little extra space but I'm really being guarded as I'm researching about not getting too big.

[DuneElliot]

side question,
why is the sawyer so much more popular than the platytpus? It seems to be more popular anyway....

Looking at Amazon the filter part of Platypus is more expensive, and it is an inline gravity filter whereas the Sawyer can be used as an inline filter (either gravity or for use with bladders), attached to the top of a bottle for direct filtering as you drink AND can be used as a squeeze filter, plus it can be attached to any bottle/soft bag with standard threads. The Platypus bags are non-standard threads. It's just more versatile.

[Time Zone]

and on the pack question.... I'm certainly a novice, not having backpacked in years.... but here's my thoughts ion this, as I'm gearing up to get back into it. Curious about your comments on this idea...
I tend to be a pack rat and over pack.... not just backpacking, but tailgate camping, or even general travel too. I have struggled to get everything into my current pack for little weekend scout troop type plop camping camp outs, and as I am looking to upgrade my pack with something better and lighter, my thought is to not buy too big. The more space I have the more likely I might be to carry something I can live without.... I like the idea of having a little extra space but I'm really being guarded as I'm researching about not getting too big.

Best advice I've seen is to make notes after each trip, and note what you didn't use, what you did use but could be replaced with something lighter, and what you did use that can't be replaced (due to budget constraints, say). Obviously consider leaving behind what you didn't use, unless it's something "safety-net" related like first aid. [Even then you might be able to economize. For instance, I had a tube of antibiotic ointment. I didn't need a whole tube! But I wanted to carry some. After a couple months I found a small container into which I could put a few dabs.]

You shouldn't try to cover every contingency, but at some point you have to draw the line. That line may depend in part on how far you're hiking, time of year, weather, terrain, remoteness, solo vs. with a friend vs. with a group, etc.

I'm still very much a work in progress in this regard, but I have a checklist in a spreadsheet to help me pack, so I know the weights of nearly everything and the volume of a lot of things. Each time I pack I think about all the negotiable things, and I try to strike a balance. If you go out often enough you'll get a feel for it. My objective function is not minimizing my weight. My objective function is to maximize fun, and if I can enjoy myself more with less stuff, I'll carry less. If having a few more unnecessary items will increase my enjoyment overall, even accounting for the extra effort in carrying them, I will carry them. Sometimes this means a stove kit, sometimes it means no stove kit. Sometimes a book, sometimes no book.

Just keep going out - and keep track of what you take, what you needed, what you didn't need were glad to have anyway, and what you don't feel like carrying next time because it was both unnecessary and its presence in your bag went unappreciated.

[HooKooDooKu]

side question,
why is the sawyer so much more popular than the platytpus? It seems to be more popular anyway....
Cost - Weight - Flexability

COST:
The Platypus filter alone cost more that twice the cost of a Sawyer Mini.
The cheapest Platypus kit is more than twice the price of the most expensive Sawyer Squeeze kit.

WEIGHT:
Relatively speaking, the Platypus weights much more than the Sawyer. The GravityWorks kit is about 12oz, where as the Sawyer Squeeze kit is only about 7oz.

FLEXABILITY:
Because the Sawyer is so much cheaper, you buy the Sawyer and then all the parts to go with it to build just the kit you want and still come in at less than you would spend for the GravityWorks.
That means rather than only getting to choose between the 4L or 2L system of the GravityWorks, you can buy a Sawyer (Mini or Squeeze) and then add parts in just the size YOU need.

For example, the Evernew Water Carry that properly screws on the input side of the Sawyer comes in 600ml, 900ml, 1.5L and 2.0L sizes.
(As others have stated, Platypus uses a custom thread pitch, so while the diameter of the platypus will fit the Sawyer, you won't be able to screw it down with about a 3/4 turn leaving the Platypus prone to leaking.)

The output from the Sawyer can be done the same way as the GravityWorks. If you use the Mini, just simply slide a piece of tubing over the output nipple. If you use the Squeeze, use the Inline Adapter kit (some versions of the Squeeze appear to come with this kit) to turn the pop-cap into a nipple tubing can be attached to. If you want the output to flow directly into a bag, simple get a bag that has tubing attached. You can use Platypus Hoser for that, or Evernew has a 'Hydration Tube' kit that looks like it can be used for the same purpose. (I personally like using the Evernew for a dirty water bag and Platypus for a clean water bag, nearly impossible to get the two mixed up).

If you want to use one of those wide mouth Platypus Reservoir as your dirty water bag, the Inline Adapter kit includes a nipple that screws onto the dirty side of the Squeeze.

[gbolt]

Agree with HooKoodooku. Would also add that you can buy modified parts and tubing to create the same gravity filter as Platypus for a lot less $. Versitility that is specific to your style or each trip is nice.

[globetruck]

side question,
why is the sawyer so much more popular than the platytpus? It seems to be more popular anyway....

I'm a platypus gravityworks user but I'm probably in the minority. I rigged up the gravityworks to connect directly to my hydration reservoir. But it seems that internal reservoirs aren't as popular as externally carried smart water bottles. 5 years ago it was Gatorade bottles. 10 years ago it was 32oz Nalgene bottles. Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the gram weenies can brag about smaller packs if they strap more stuff to the outside.

Bottom line: get something that matches your personal style and budget. But realize that as you gain more experience, your needs may change.

[Maineiac64]

and on the pack question.... I'm certainly a novice, not having backpacked in years.... but here's my thoughts ion this, as I'm gearing up to get back into it. Curious about your comments on this idea...
I tend to be a pack rat and over pack.... not just backpacking, but tailgate camping, or even general travel too. I have struggled to get everything into my current pack for little weekend scout troop type plop camping camp outs, and as I am looking to upgrade my pack with something better and lighter, my thought is to not buy too big. The more space I have the more likely I might be to carry something I can live without.... I like the idea of having a little extra space but I'm really being guarded as I'm researching about not getting too big.

don't underestimate the value of going light and tight. Seriously consider the expert options in packs, bags, pads, and shelter. It doesn't take long for overall carry weight to get up there if you keep saying its only a few oz more.

[LongBlaze2019]

I think it's been summed up pretty good already but you need to go out and hike and figure out what you NEED, what you WANT, and what you can live without. I use a Sawyer and a 50 litter pack but I've been hiking for years and know what gear I will need for the time of year and have gotten pretty good at packing it.

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[Secondmouse]

ok I went and got fitted for a pack today and really got a good idea what I want in my pack as of what i want for different features but .... I tried on a 50L but seems small to be able to fit everything for up to 5-7 days on the trail. I am also new to this hiking adventures so my question would be is a 50L workable or should I go 60-65L size pack?

Also looking into different water filtration systems ... what works best for you ? I know what works for one may not be best for another but i would love some feed back here . I was thinking the gravity so i can set up camp and all while filtering but then also thought of the ones we squeeze so not have to wait .

I think a 50L pack is for experienced people who have their system down to a science. I saw a lot of smaller packs with a bunch of crap hanging off the outside of them.

the budget favorite is Sawyer filter. I had the mini quit on me the last day of my Pinhoti hike and had to boil my water so now I carry the point one. good flow just by gravity so I don't have to squeeze my bag...

[LongBlaze2019]

I tend to pack a little heavier for shorter trips because I'm not hiking as many miles. My pack list gets smaller for longer trips though lol

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[nsherry61]

. . . 60-65L packs are a good average size for a 3 season AT thru hike. . .
Actually, "average" on the AT in 2016 was apparently 50L for backpacks. Average on the PCT was 60L. On both trails, the Osprey Exos was the most popular and the most loved by their users . . . not the sense one gets from reading White Blaze, which is far more cottage market focused than most of the people on the trail.

That all being said, this thread seems to be pretty spot on in my opinion.
Bigger is less likely to be a problem and will be less frustrating until you get your kit tuned over several trips, not just from internet research. Bigger is also more likely to be replaced in the near future as you tune your kit.

I used my day packs the most (18, 22 or 28 L), and even use them on some mid-summer minimalist overnights.
My 3-season 5 days or less, solo backpack is most often my Gregory Fury 40 L pack. Simple, light and plenty big enough.
My 3 or more days with my wife, or winter multi-day pack is my Osprey Exos 48, up to about 5 days or so of winter back-country, then I switch to my Gregory Z55 for a little extra space and comfort for over 30 lb loads.

I'd love to get a Crown Vic 60 or similar pack for winter because of the extra space, lighter weight than my Gregory, and closer fit to my back for better balance and control on my skis.

My lack of cottage industry gear is more an indicator of my various industry connections along my cheap, lazy, impatient buying habits than it is any lack of interest or appreciation for many of the great cottage products out there. . . it's time and experience in the woods, learning what general practices and approaches work best for you, that makes for great trips more than exactly the right gear. Save your time and money for getting outdoors in preference to getting exactly the right gear.

[Secondmouse]

Actually, "average" on the AT in 2016 was apparently 50L for backpacks. Average on the PCT was 60L. On both trails, the Osprey Exos was the most popular and the most loved by their users . . . not the sense one gets from reading White Blaze, which is far more cottage market focused than most of the people on the trail.

That all being said, this thread seems to be pretty spot on in my opinion.
Bigger is less likely to be a problem and will be less frustrating until you get your kit tuned over several trips, not just from internet research. Bigger is also more likely to be replaced in the near future as you tune your kit.

I used my day packs the most (18, 22 or 28 L), and even use them on some mid-summer minimalist overnights.
My 3-season 5 days or less, solo backpack is most often my Gregory Fury 40 L pack. Simple, light and plenty big enough.
My 3 or more days with my wife, or winter multi-day pack is my Osprey Exos 48, up to about 5 days or so of winter back-country, then I switch to my Gregory Z55 for a little extra space and comfort for over 30 lb loads.

I'd love to get a Crown Vic 60 or similar pack for winter because of the extra space, lighter weight than my Gregory, and closer fit to my back for better balance and control on my skis.

My lack of cottage industry gear is more an indicator of my various industry connections along my cheap, lazy, impatient buying habits than it is any lack of interest or appreciation for many of the great cottage products out there. . . it's time and experience in the woods, learning what general practices and approaches work best for you, that makes for great trips more than exactly the right gear. Save your time and money for getting outdoors in preference to getting exactly the right gear.

yeah, I saw a lot of the Exos 48L packs with all kinds of crap strapped to the outside. this was in June/July thru NC, TN, VA so a few of these guys had been on the trail long enough to have things sorted out.

personally, I'd rather have things within my pack and the 3 exterior pockets, than attached at random to the outside. they're usually in their own pouch or attachment system which adds weight and can affect balance and dynamics.

choosing the larger Exos 58 makes sense to me, especially when the listed weight of the 58 is only 1.6oz more than the same size 48. that's not much for 10 extra liters. I have roll top dry sacks that weigh more than that...

[martinb]

My main pack is a 65L Osprey. I usually hike without the fanny top section, only use it for winter trips. It's good to have some expansion capability.

[Thinspace]

Granite Gear VC Crown 60 should be all the pack you need for the AT, both size and weight wise...see if you can try one on...

I bought one and I love it! Very comfortable and easily fits everything I need. Weighs in at I think 2.2 lb. There are lighter packs but I settled on this one with no regrets.

[DuneElliot]

yeah, I saw a lot of the Exos 48L packs with all kinds of crap strapped to the outside. this was in June/July thru NC, TN, VA so a few of these guys had been on the trail long enough to have things sorted out.

personally, I'd rather have things within my pack and the 3 exterior pockets, than attached at random to the outside. they're usually in their own pouch or attachment system which adds weight and can affect balance and dynamics.

choosing the larger Exos 58 makes sense to me, especially when the listed weight of the 58 is only 1.6oz more than the same size 48. that's not much for 10 extra liters. I have roll top dry sacks that weigh more than that...

I hate having anything on the outside of my pack. Even the few things I do have outside of the main compartment are in the various pockets. The only thing I have attached to the outside via straps is my sit pad/dog bed(s).

[saltysack]

I'll bring back Monday


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[saltysack]

I'll bring back Monday


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Ooops was tying a text....


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[saltysack]

I assume people aren't talking about gear in outside pockets...i love having items in outside pocket for easy access i.e.
Rain shell
Wind shell
Rain skirt
Wind pants
Hygiene/first aid/TP

Much prefer outside


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[DuneElliot]

I assume people aren't talking about gear in outside pockets...i love having items in outside pocket for easy access i.e.
Rain shell
Wind shell
Rain skirt
Wind pants
Hygiene/first aid/TP

Much prefer outside


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I certainly wasn't...I was referring to stuff hanging on the outside. Each pocket has a dedicated use for things I use throughout the day

[HooKooDooKu]

... I had the mini quit on me the last day of my Pinhoti hike and had to boil my water...
I must say... I'm still trying to figure the Sawyer Mini out.
Stories like the above don't seem to be rare, and even in this thread, many have stated they prefer the Squeese over the Mini because of better flow.

My history of the Mini is very few problems.
I generally buy a new one at the start of they year. My typical trips are two night hikes in GSMNP where I back flush the filter with tap water when I get home (where the water here in the Birmingham area is VERY hard, lots of dissolved minerals). I generally don't notice flow issues with the Mini as I go thru the hiking season... I generally just set it up in gravity mode and can filter 2L in about 4 minutes without even having to prime the system.

But then on the flip side, I did a JMT thru hike last summer with a brand new Mini. I made sure to back flush with filtered water at least every-other day. But towards the end of the trip, I noticed a significant slowdown in flow, and even back flushing everyday after that point didn't seem to improve things.

It would be nice if there was some way of figuring out how to make the Mini more reliable. I like it over the Squeeze for its size.

[Secondmouse]

I hate having anything on the outside of my pack. Even the few things I do have outside of the main compartment are in the various pockets. The only thing I have attached to the outside via straps is my sit pad/dog bed(s).

I attach a rolled up piece of CCF that I use for a sit pad and my crocs to the outside. everthing else goes inside or in exterior pocket.

[Secondmouse]

I must say... I'm still trying to figure the Sawyer Mini out.
Stories like the above don't seem to be rare, and even in this thread, many have stated they prefer the Squeese over the Mini because of better flow.

My history of the Mini is very few problems.
I generally buy a new one at the start of they year. My typical trips are two night hikes in GSMNP where I back flush the filter with tap water when I get home (where the water here in the Birmingham area is VERY hard, lots of dissolved minerals). I generally don't notice flow issues with the Mini as I go thru the hiking season... I generally just set it up in gravity mode and can filter 2L in about 4 minutes without even having to prime the system.

But then on the flip side, I did a JMT thru hike last summer with a brand new Mini. I made sure to back flush with filtered water at least every-other day. But towards the end of the trip, I noticed a significant slowdown in flow, and even back flushing everyday after that point didn't seem to improve things.

It would be nice if there was some way of figuring out how to make the Mini more reliable. I like it over the Squeeze for its size.

this was kind of weird. it had only been used 3 or 4 days at that point and woke up one morning and nothing would go through it and no it didn't freeze. I found it in my pack getting ready for another trip a couple weeks later and it worked fine. I still didn't trust it and have been very happy with the increased flow of the Point One (Squeeze) filter...

[NOBO2017]

I'm loving some of this info! I have a 70L pack which has been fabulous for flying around the world. I've been contemplating buying a new, smaller pack, or sticking with the one I've got for our thru this season. It looks like, as usual, it's different strokes for different folks. I think I'll stick with what I've got, at least for the time being.