View Full Version : Do I Really Need a Pack Liner?
Steppin'Wolf
01-25-2017, 19:05
I have a Osprey Exos 58 (without the brain) as my pack. I like it a lot. My setup is that I am using waterproof stuff sacks for my sleep system, clothes, etc. I also have my pack lined with a trash compactor bag. I have nothing on the outside of my pack that needs to stay dry. My question is: "Do I really need a pack liner?"
Thanks for your input/advice.
ScareBear
01-25-2017, 19:09
You already have one...
But, if you are asking if a liner dry bag is HELPFUL, my answer is YES, certainly more so than a compactor bag. A liner dry bag will let you "solidify" your gear into one "unit" that won't shift, rattle and roll while hiking/climbing. I use the Sea to Summit eVent dry sack. 20L for my 35L pack and 35L for my 62L pack...
Puddlefish
01-25-2017, 19:17
I started my hike with a new Exos 48, it was waterproof, and I probably didn't need the compactor bag. Although, on rainy days, I'd stuff a wet bandana, or semi muddy camp shoes between the pack wall and compactor bag full of gear.
I did use the compactor bag with a little nozzle to inflate my sleeping pad, and also used it to cover my feet when some high winds were tossing some rain into the tent sideways.
My pack was stuffed so tight, there was nothing to shake rattle or roll. Overall, it was well worth bringing.
lwhikerchris
01-25-2017, 19:52
No, you don't need it; it gets in the way. Do you have a pack cover?
Rain Man
01-25-2017, 20:00
Do you mean pack cover? I never use one of those, except a blaze orange one during hunting season. A trash compactor bag is the way to go IMHO.
kayak karl
01-25-2017, 21:14
Trash bag for liner and Packa for cover. It's the water proof stuff sacks I think are a waste.
MuddyWaters
01-25-2017, 21:18
Whats your definition of "need"?
No, dont need it
Its the best thing to keep your gear dry however
Might find you.....appreciate it
Steppin'Wolf
01-25-2017, 23:40
Sorry, I meant pack cover. Now knowing that, do you all think I need one?
Christoph
01-25-2017, 23:51
I wouldn't think so. I used the compactor bag and not once did anything get wet that I didn't want to. I only have the cheapo stuff sacks from Walmart for my bag, clothes, and extras.
Feral Bill
01-26-2017, 00:22
I've been backpacking for almost 50 years. Never had a pack cover. Used a poncho. Never had a problem. I now use a Packa, mostly to keep me dry.
Do you mean pack cover? I never use one of those, except a blaze orange one during hunting season. A trash compactor bag is the way to go IMHO.
+1 This is the best solution.
ScareBear
01-26-2017, 07:08
A pack cover is a viable option for extended periods of rain. It isn't so much keeping the inside of the pack dry(you should never, ever, ever, ever rely on a pack cover to accomplish THAT), as it is keeping the fabric of the pack from absorbing water and....weighing you down. Also, wet fabric tends to stretch...
Finally, a pack cover in freezing rain or snow is nice to keep the zippers from freezing...YMMV....
Traveler
01-26-2017, 08:32
A pack cover is a viable option for extended periods of rain. It isn't so much keeping the inside of the pack dry(you should never, ever, ever, ever rely on a pack cover to accomplish THAT), as it is keeping the fabric of the pack from absorbing water and....weighing you down. Also, wet fabric tends to stretch...
Finally, a pack cover in freezing rain or snow is nice to keep the zippers from freezing...YMMV....
+1 on this. I use pack covers fairly routinely for these reasons. If you have an Osprey or other pack that provides a breathable space between the pack an you back, a cover tends to work better to keep the pack itself dry (or as dry as possible). The heavy trash compactor bag (unscented) are invaluable in keeping things dry you don't want to get wet like down wear, sleeping bags, and clothing.
kayak karl
01-26-2017, 08:59
the reason I went with Packs was that it was rain gear, wind gear, foot cover on hammock, pack cover and even carried water in it up from stream. makes a nice pillow also.
kayak karl
01-26-2017, 09:01
the reason I went with Packa was that it was rain gear, wind gear, foot cover on hammock, pack cover and even carried water in it up from stream. makes a nice pillow also.
Tipi Walter
01-26-2017, 09:54
A pack cover is a viable option for extended periods of rain. It isn't so much keeping the inside of the pack dry(you should never, ever, ever, ever rely on a pack cover to accomplish THAT), as it is keeping the fabric of the pack from absorbing water and....weighing you down. Also, wet fabric tends to stretch...
Finally, a pack cover in freezing rain or snow is nice to keep the zippers from freezing...YMMV....
Exactly this. You hit all the points. My pack cover keeps the fabric of my pack from getting soaked . . . and heavier. Plus, it's vital in the winter to keep the pack fabric from freezing solid at night (after it gets wet during the day w/o a cover) and Oh---frozen zippers suck!! Like boots, packs when wet will freeze solid thru the night in cold temps, causing the straps to not work and the zippers to be useless.
colorado_rob
01-26-2017, 10:17
Just my own method, seems to work great, never had an important piece of gear get wet in roughly 50 years of backpacking: I do use a pack cover as a "first line" of defense, keeps maybe 90% of the rain off my pack and gear, and like others have said, it's nice to keep the pack itself mostly dry. If I had a cuben fiber pack, I'd reconsider. But my pack cover, a zpacks cuben item, weighs about 1.4 ounces or so, worth the weight to me for this first line.
Then I also use a 2.5-3 ounce pack liner, the good old trash compactor bag. I find the original bags a tad tall for my pack and gear, so I cut off 4-6" or so. Only those things vital to stay absolutely dry go into this bag; sleeping bag and clothes. Above that in my pack goes my stove, food bag and a mostly-waterproof, zipped ditty bag with everything else. In a major rain day, this ditty bag might get a tad damp on the outside from pack cover leakage, but the contents stay dry. PAck cover leakage comes from your back region, so I try to keep this ditty bag far from my back. I don't care if my food bag gets wet, nor my stove/cup/spoon/fuel canister.
Again, just my proven (to me) method, adopted a couple decades ago and tweeked to what I said above.
saltysack
01-26-2017, 10:25
Exactly this. You hit all the points. My pack cover keeps the fabric of my pack from getting soaked . . . and heavier. Plus, it's vital in the winter to keep the pack fabric from freezing solid at night (after it gets wet during the day w/o a cover) and Oh---frozen zippers suck!! Like boots, packs when wet will freeze solid thru the night in cold temps, causing the straps to not work and the zippers to be useless.
Tipi u could shave lil weight...just use the hilleberg fly to cover that small pack off yours....we know your a gram weenie![emoji38]
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Tipi Walter
01-26-2017, 13:08
Tipi u could shave lil weight...just use the hilleberg fly to cover that small pack off yours....we know your a gram weenie![emoji38]
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Heck I use the entire tent as both a body condom and a rain jacket and also a pack cover---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Warriors-Passage/i-nPdwPg3/0/L/390163_10150422133014094_500604093_8485210_347645_ n-L.jpg
QuietStorm
01-26-2017, 13:15
What do people who use a pack cover do when you have a sleeping pad you need to attach to the outside of your pack? Cut small slits for the straps?
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Traveler
01-26-2017, 13:30
What do people who use a pack cover do when you have a sleeping pad you need to attach to the outside of your pack? Cut small slits for the straps?
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Depends on which pack I have. My larger pack most everything fits inside it. If a smaller pack, I will get a larger pack cover so it covers things that lash onto the outside of the pack.
Tipi Walter
01-26-2017, 13:31
What do people who use a pack cover do when you have a sleeping pad you need to attach to the outside of your pack? Cut small slits for the straps?
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Get a larger pack cover. My pack cover can go from 7,000 cu in down to 3,000 cu in---and this pic shows my Thermy sleeping pad visible on the side in its own waterproof stuff sack---but there's also a tent strapped on the back and other things like crocs. (This is for an 18 day winter trip with 45 lbs of food/fuel and winter clothing etc).
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Cranbrook-School-Backpacking/i-M2gv2mq/0/L/DSC00072-L.jpg
saltysack
01-26-2017, 14:02
Heck I use the entire tent as both a body condom and a rain jacket and also a pack cover---
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Warriors-Passage/i-nPdwPg3/0/L/390163_10150422133014094_500604093_8485210_347645_ n-L.jpg
Glad your practicing safe back packing![emoji3]
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Tipi Walter
01-26-2017, 14:25
Glad your practicing safe back packing![emoji3]
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Other than self-insemination I think I'm safe---although caution is needed when seeing the approach of distant dayhikers . . . .they have a nasty bite and can leave welts.
ScareBear
01-26-2017, 14:53
Other than self-insemination I think I'm safe---although caution is needed when seeing the approach of distant dayhikers . . . .they have a nasty bite and can leave welts.
They're just jealous of your gigantic.....backpack....just sayin...
QuietStorm
01-26-2017, 15:31
Get a larger pack cover. My pack cover can go from 7,000 cu in down to 3,000 cu in---and this pic shows my Thermy sleeping pad visible on the side in its own waterproof stuff sack---but there's also a tent strapped on the back and other things like crocs. (This is for an 18 day winter trip with 45 lbs of food/fuel and winter clothing etc).
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Cranbrook-School-Backpacking/i-M2gv2mq/0/L/DSC00072-L.jpg
And shorts! I have an Osprey Aether 70 and typically strap my Thermarest Z Lite Sol to the outside bottom using the two sleeping pad straps. I have a large pack cover but am not picturing getting it over the pad when it's in that position. Will try seeing if I can strap it to the side and fit the cover over it.
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Bianchi Veloce
01-27-2017, 04:18
the reason I went with Packa was that it was rain gear, wind gear, foot cover on hammock, pack cover and even carried water in it up from stream. makes a nice pillow also.
Me too, Brother. I'm a Packa Man.
Time Zone
01-27-2017, 08:56
And shorts!
I know! Maybe he was dipping his toe into ultralight backpacking.
:D
lwhikerchris
01-27-2017, 12:37
Cuben pack cover is the way to go and cuben sacks for inside to keep your stuff dry. You will want this when you have 10 days straight of rain.
Some people do the full poncho/pack cover, which seems to be a good idea.
ldsailor
01-27-2017, 13:17
What do people who use a pack cover do when you have a sleeping pad you need to attach to the outside of your pack? Cut small slits for the straps?
I have an Osprey Atmos 65 backpack. I bought their extra large backpack cover. It fits the backpack with a tent attached to the outside. I could probably hang a few other things off the outside and still have the cover fit. The cover has strings that you can tighten around the pack to make it fit snug so no excess material flapping in the wind.
I use a turkey size oven bag for clothes, quilt and anything else I don't want to get wet. For me protecting everything is not necessary since it doesn't matter if the cook kit is wet.
In-properly sized or fitted pack covers can accumulate water on their interior, so it is still important to keep critical items separate in a waterproof bag.
I agree with Karl that stuff sacks are not necessary, small items can be placed in zip locks. The organizational effectiveness of stuff sacks is lost once you leave your living room.
Using a pack cover for frozen zippers seems rational, but most modern UL packs have few zippers.
Tipi's 7000ci pack cover also serves as a hot tub, assuming you're willing to spend the time to heat 40 gallons of water.
saltysack
01-27-2017, 15:06
I use a turkey size oven bag for clothes, quilt and anything else I don't want to get wet. For me protecting everything is not necessary since it doesn't matter if the cook kit is wet.
In-properly sized or fitted pack covers can accumulate water on their interior, so it is still important to keep critical items separate in a waterproof bag.
I agree with Karl that stuff sacks are not necessary, small items can be placed in zip locks. The organizational effectiveness of stuff sacks is lost once you leave your living room.
Using a pack cover for frozen zippers seems rational, but most modern UL packs have few zippers.
Tipi's 7000ci pack cover also serves as a hot tub, assuming you're willing to spend the time to heat 40 gallons of water.
My last trusty white compactor bag finally sprung a leak after a few years...I always fill with water before a long trip to check for holes. Muddy also mentioned turkey bag as working well and lil lighter than compactor...what does the box look like as I've never noticed a turkey bag at the store....obviously they're their just never noticed...
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saltysack
01-27-2017, 15:08
I use a turkey size oven bag for clothes, quilt and anything else I don't want to get wet. For me protecting everything is not necessary since it doesn't matter if the cook kit is wet.
In-properly sized or fitted pack covers can accumulate water on their interior, so it is still important to keep critical items separate in a waterproof bag.
I agree with Karl that stuff sacks are not necessary, small items can be placed in zip locks. The organizational effectiveness of stuff sacks is lost once you leave your living room.
Using a pack cover for frozen zippers seems rational, but most modern UL packs have few zippers.
Tipi's 7000ci pack cover also serves as a hot tub, assuming you're willing to spend the time to heat 40 gallons of water.
Good point about zippers.......only zippers my packs have is on the waist belt pockets I which a pack cover doesn't help...I've never used a pack cover....
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plexusbritt
01-27-2017, 16:45
I'm in the camp of those who use a poncho. It covers the whole thing including myself and it is well ventilated so I don't find that I sweat. But, for those light showers where it actually feels good to get rained on, as a backup I have my clothes in a gallon sized ziplock bag and my sleeping bag in a dry sack.
Yes, I am extravagant with my two extra bags but, they serve dual purpose ;) sleeping bag sack becomes my pillow and the ziplock has ended up being used in several ways on the trail.
My last trusty white compactor bag finally sprung a leak after a few years...I always fill with water before a long trip to check for holes. Muddy also mentioned turkey bag as working well and lil lighter than compactor...what does the box look like as I've never noticed a turkey bag at the store....obviously they're their just never noticed...
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My grocery carries these, http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/oven-bags/ by the zip locks.
saltysack
01-27-2017, 19:10
My grocery carries these, http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/oven-bags/ by the zip locks.
Perfect I'll try them
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I have used a Packa over a GG Gorilla with Zlite. I used shock chord to strap the Zlite on vertically (over big outside mesh pocket) instead of horizontally across the top. That worked.
I only use the Packa in colder weather. In late spring/summer/early fall I either go with a Precip or Houdini jacket and no pack cover. I use CF dry bag for my quilt and extra clothes (if I brought any). I have not hiked in days of rain but I've been in several downpours in which I got soaked and I've also hiked in the high summer in VA and have been completely soaked from head to toe in sweat to the point of saturating my pack, but the quilt in the CF bag and the food in the CF food bag were dry. That was actually a really good lesson in why it's just sorta a waste of time for me to try to keep the pack dry in summer.