View Full Version : Hidden pond, how many people is too many people?
Don't get me wrong, love seeing people out enjoying the wilderness but a recent weekend backcountry trip out to Hidden Pond really tuned me off with regards to how many people were out there. With at least two scout groups and other multi-people camps there were at least 50 people camping. Most of them in close proximity to Hidden Pond. I've camped at Hopkins Prairie , completely full, and there were less people.
For this trip, I camped over by Crooked Springs and only myself and a small group camped by this much larger spring-fed water source. 50 human waste factories camping so close to these special wilderness places really bugs me. I went on a day hike the next day and saw numerous unburied human waste piles and toilet paper, it was disgusting. Why are there not limits at these places? Honestly group camps need to be in group-specfic camp areas. The scouts had pitched tents nearly completely across the spur trail heading back to Crooked Springs. That's too much. The Forest service should limit groups to no more than six at these spots. Save Hidden Pond.
How do you propose to accomplish that?
Is it a shame? Yes. And scouts to boot!
It's just that people will congregate and will be ignorant no matter what.
Best practice? Move on. Anything else is a waste of energy.
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MtDoraDave
01-26-2017, 08:14
More regulations? Who pays to enforce the regulations?
If you feel strongly about it, figure out a way to educate the campers about hygiene in the bush. I once saw a bumper sticker that said "Think globally, act locally"
MtDoraDave
01-26-2017, 08:21
More regulations? Who pays to enforce the regulations?
If you feel strongly about it, figure out a way to educate the campers about hygiene in the bush. I once saw a bumper sticker that said "Think globally, act locally"
Possible solution would be to somehow convince the Forestry service to allow signs throughout the trail, but especially at camping sites, promoting Leave No Trace - but also offering tips such as burying your poo at least 100 feet from any water source, not leaving "wipes" behind as they don't decompose like t.p., pack it in - pack it out, etc, with a slogan on the sign saying something along the lines of "Leave it pristine so others can enjoy it, too"
Need to convince the kids! How to make it attractive to bury poo? A cell phone game/app? Seriously.
Points for LNT practices and the winner gets ???
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saltysack
01-26-2017, 11:12
I would think scouts would know better....
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I think when scouting organizations are found violating LNT or camping in large groups the organization should be fined...and fined out of existence if necessary. They fail to serve their purpose when they are teaching kids the wrong habits.
Sandy of PA
01-26-2017, 12:19
Become a LNT instructor for the Scouts. If it bugs you, be the change you wish to see.
Scouts won't know or do better than adults they want to emulate.
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Old Hiker
01-26-2017, 14:45
So, starting with post #5, it became the SCOUTS' fault about the unburied human waste ??? The other "multi-people" groups get a pass ??
I'd bet that the Scouts not only knew better, but when they left, their camping spot was BETTER than when they got there. My Troop ALWAYS did that.
life scout
01-26-2017, 17:05
Hidden pond has enough space for 100 campers. I think you got unlucky on you timing here. My guess is you were at hidden pond MLK weekend. The knowledge of how to care for our land needs to be properly passed to the next generation. You might have a bigger impact/influence by volunteering to teach LNT and hiking/camping etiquette to the scouts in your area. They are the next stewards of our land.
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Traveler
01-27-2017, 08:06
Become a LNT instructor for the Scouts. If it bugs you, be the change you wish to see.
+1 - perfect.
CELTIC BUCK
01-27-2017, 08:19
You assume it was the Scouts at fault but you also say there were about 50 people. Sounds like you have an axe to Grind, how about facts not more anti Scout nonsense.
I would think scouts would know better....
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Know better about what? The OP states that at least two scout groups were there, not that they did anything wrong.
Seems to me the OP is upset because there were more people at the campsite than he wanted.
Some sensitive ones here. No ax to grind with the scouts at all and am certainly not blaming them for all of the waste I saw. As for as the LNT suggestions, it would be awesome to "teach" these things. However, due to time constraints, I am limited to teaching by example. While I do not mess with human waste I do pick up trash left by others (empty bar wrappers, etc. ) and haul it out. What do you do?
Hidden pond has enough space for 100 campers. I think you got unlucky on you timing here. My guess is you were at hidden pond MLK weekend. The knowledge of how to care for our land needs to be properly passed to the next generation. You might have a bigger impact/influence by volunteering to teach LNT and hiking/camping etiquette to the scouts in your area. They are the next stewards of our land.
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Shouldn't current scout leaders teach these practices? Again, not blaming the scouts for everything I saw. I do not think large-group camping, in the backcountry, is teaching proper use of this resource.
Sandy of PA
01-27-2017, 12:12
I have actually gotten out my trowel and buried stuff that others had left.
I have done that for one I found on a trip in NC but there were at least a dozen that I saw. May have to start bringing an Army shovel out there.
Some sensitive ones here. No ax to grind with the scouts at all and am certainly not blaming them for all of the waste I saw. As for as the LNT suggestions, it would be awesome to "teach" these things. However, due to time constraints, I am limited to teaching by example. While I do not mess with human waste I do pick up trash left by others (empty bar wrappers, etc. ) and haul it out. What do you do?
BSA does teach and require LNT http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/TeachingLeaveNoTrace.aspx
And the reason why some of us are sensitive is because we volunteer with BSA and we see a certain few on WB (not you OP) who consistently bash the organization.
I certainly wasn't "bashing" the organization. I was in the scouts. My only beef is with the size of the groups and the impact on this site. Three deep breaths, take them.
Traveler
01-28-2017, 05:46
Good advice, let us know how that worked.