I'm becoming a gram weenie

[QuietStorm]

Just packed up for a weekend section hike and somehow the damn thing weighs in at 32 lbs. I have a synthetic +5 sleeping bag that weighs 4 lbs. Just bought an EE Revelation quilt (Im a hanger). Replacing stuff sacks with one Zpacks pack liner. Love my Osprey Aether 70 and want to keep it even though it weighs 4.4. My HH hammock weighs about 2. The Snugpack UQ weighs 2.9. I replaced the stock HH rain fly with a Hennessy hex fly but that weighs 1.8. Down throw to put in between the UQ and hammock. One set of warm sleeping clothes. Down jacket. Micro spikes. 2 L of water. 2 days of food. Light Esbit stove. God knows how I got to 32 lbs. I can't wait for winter to be over so I can lighten the load.


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[rocketsocks]

Just packed up for a weekend section hike and somehow the damn thing weighs in at 32 lbs. I have a synthetic +5 sleeping bag that weighs 4 lbs. Just bought an EE Revelation quilt (Im a hanger). Replacing stuff sacks with one Zpacks pack liner. Love my Osprey Aether 70 and want to keep it even though it weighs 4.4. My HH hammock weighs about 2. The Snugpack UQ weighs 2.9. I replaced the stock HH rain fly with a Hennessy hex fly but that weighs 1.8. Down throw to put in between the UQ and hammock. One set of warm sleeping clothes. Down jacket. Micro spikes. 2 L of water. 2 days of food. Light Esbit stove. God knows how I got to 32 lbs. I can't wait for winter to be over so I can lighten the load.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkif it's any consolation your about 14 lbs. lighter than the average outfit from about 35 years ago, just by virtue of materials sold.

[ekeverette]

that amount of weight man up and do....... take slow if have to. I do and i'm old fart

[Maineiac64]

You cant have that pack and call yourself a gram weenie, go ahead and get an arc haul.

[QuietStorm]

You cant have that pack and call yourself a gram weenie, go ahead and get an arc haul.

Thank you. It fits me extremely well but I can imagine upgrading in a year or so.


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[QuietStorm]

that amount of weight man up and do....... take slow if have to. I do and i'm old fart

I typically carry 30 lbs. and hike about 2 mph for 7-8 hours. I guess I was hoping for sub-30 or even sub-25. It's hard in winter with all the extra gear. Looking forward to the warmer weather.


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[ekeverette]

I see your point being winter, but if your in half decent shape...... you can do between 4 or 5 lbs.... you can do it dude!!

[poolskaterx]

...welcome to the rabbit hole;)

[QuietStorm]

Just ditched the heavy synthetic bag. I have warm clothes, Klymit pad, fleece bag liner, down quilt, and under quilt. Should be fine...we hope. Now under 30 lbs.


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[Sandy of PA]

If you have an underquilt, what is the klymit pad for?

[QuietStorm]

Additional insulation and insurance in case I have to go to ground.


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[cmoulder]

If you want to become a real gram weenie the first step is to manage the "just in case" impulses. The easiest way to save weight is to not carry it in the first place.

For an overnight trip or a 2-night trip with a fairly solid weather forecast and some knowledge of the area you're going to be backpacking, make a decision whether you're going to be hanging or tenting/tarping and stick with it.

Esbit in the winter is an interesting choice.

[nsherry61]

Just packed up for a weekend section hike and somehow the damn thing weighs in at 32 lbs.
I have a synthetic +5 sleeping bag that weighs 4 lbs. Just bought an EE Revelation quilt (Im a hanger). Replacing stuff sacks with one Zpacks pack liner. Love my Osprey Aether 70 and want to keep it even though it weighs 4.4. My HH hammock weighs about 2. The Snugpack UQ weighs 2.9. I replaced the stock HH rain fly with a Hennessy hex fly but that weighs 1.8. Down throw to put in between the UQ and hammock. One set of warm sleeping clothes. Down jacket. Micro spikes. 2 L of water. 2 days of food. Light Esbit stove. God knows how I got to 32 lbs. I can't wait for winter to be over so I can lighten the load.

+5 synthetic bag at 4 lbs is 1.5 - 2 lbs more than you need to carry if you use a cooler down bag and supplement with your down jacket.

Is the EE quilt in addition to the bag or instead? If in addition, it's complete overkill.

As noted elsewhere, yeah, the Aether may be a great pack and the best one to carry for you. But there a lots of great packs out there at 1/2 the weight so you could start thinking, at least a little, like a gram weenie, which clearly you aren't even close to.

Hammocks are comfy, but 2+2.9+1.8+(down throw?), geez, I can carry my 4 season mountain tent and a beer for that kind of weight!!! If you can't get your shelter system down into the three pound range, you aren't allowed to even hint at the concept of "gram weenie".

Ditch the sleeping cloths. They are just silly vanity, except maybe sleeping socks and sleeping hat.

An Esbit stove as part of this kit (to save weight?) is just silly. Carry a real stove in winter.

But mostly, go out with whatever you have and have fun and learn what works for you so you can tell the rest of us opinionated prats to go jump in a lake.

[hyperslug]

Back in the day we used to backpack with 60 pounds of ultralight gear. :)

[scrabbler]

That's not an unreasonable weight for winter. Why stress about it? It's a weekend trip, not a month long mileage fest. Enjoy yourself. I say bring even more goodies.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Back in the day we used to backpack with 60 pounds of ultralight gear. :)

I miss those days, but my hips joints don't.

[cmoulder]

There are gram weenies and then there are by-gawd gram weenies. :)

I consider myself a garden-variety gram weenie.

On a recent 2-night trip where it was in the teens each night, I was completely comfortable and well fed carrying a TPW of 17.2 lbs with food, fuel and 1 quart of water (and of course it fluctuated slightly up or down depending upon clothing being worn). I did not need nor carry microspikes, but if I had that would have added 1.16 lb (527g, including carrying pouch). If I had needed snowshoes that would have added 2.53 lb (1150g). If it had been a little colder (down to 0°F, maybe -5°F) I would have added down pants at 0.84lb (379g). This additional stuff would have brought the TWP to 21.5 lb. This goes up a bit to about 23 lbs if I am also carrying an ice axe (Camp Corsa) and stove/fuel for melting snow for 2 people.

Back when I were a young lad with all the latest gear I would have carried close to 50 lbs of stuff for the same trip. Yes, gear in general has gotten lighter but it is entirely possible to go lighter yet and still be comfortable and safe. And any time I can carry 10-15 lbs less than the next guy, I'll take it.

However, if you want to become a certified gram weenie you've got to get a good scale for weighing small stuff (digital scale with at least 1g resolution) and a hanging scale to weigh the total pack... just adding up the numbers from a spreadsheet doesn't work because it's all too easy to 'sneak in' items that aren't on your list. I use GearGrams for keeping track of gear weight, and there are other free spreadsheets for the same purpose.

[MuddyWaters]

However, if you want to become a certified gram weenie you've got to get a good scale for weighing small stuff (digital scale with at least 1g resolution) and a hanging scale to weigh the total pack... just adding up the numbers from a spreadsheet doesn't work because it's all too easy to 'sneak in' items that aren't on your list. I use GearGrams for keeping track of gear weight, and there are other free spreadsheets for the same purpose.


Its pretty easy to know exactly what you put in your pack....if someone chooses not to control it...thats an individual thing. Not like it matters anyway. gear list is a tool to help you reduce pack weight and control it. If someone thinks its a competition...they are a fool.

Aside from my own, Ive never seen a complete gear list. Most are laughably lacking. Mine includes every last extra ziplock, rubber band, garbage ziplock, map, ibuprofen tablet, safety pin, etc. I have no idea why anyone would use some stupid site like geargrams either, dont know how to use excel. lotus 123, or a free spreadsheet like open office? Perhaps its where newbies learn what they need....by looking at others lists.

[Patrickjd9]

I got the shock QuietStorm did last spring, when I stopped to weigh my pack (after putting it together in a rush) on the way out of the house for a 3-night trip and came up at 42 pounds.

After taking up a picnic table at a highway rest area on I-81 for half an hour, I lightened it by 6 pounds simply by tossing stuff out of the pack and into the back of my car. Looking back, I could easily have tossed out a couple of pounds by cutting food.

I've been using the Lighter Pack website with a food scale and a luggage scale and weighed all my stuff over the winter. Got under 22 pounds plus food and water for a 2-night spring hike without replacing any gear, and am under 20 with a couple of small replacements.

I was hoping to get to 16 pounds, but right now, I think the money may be better spent on new boots. Mine are too big since I've lost weight (yes, this happens), and I can get 12 ounces off my feet pretty easily.

[Mr. Bumpy]

Love my Osprey Aether 70 and want to keep it even though it weighs 4.4.

My Aether 70 has been my long time pack and I love it even though mine weighed right at 5lbs. Then last fall I did the FT with a new ULA Catalyst starting at about 35 lbs which for me is good considering nearly a weeks worth of food and water. I still had a little bit of volume left over and the ULA could have handled at least five more pounds easily, so I've since given away the Aether. There is a lot of extra weight in the Aether with the overbuilt adjustable suspension and crazy big space. I'll never be ultra light, nor do I want to, but this change out seemed like a fair swap out that saved nearly 2lbs.

[cmoulder]

I'll never be ultra light, nor do I want to, but this change out seemed like a fair swap out that saved nearly 2lbs.

That's some dangerous logic there... next thing is to look for lighter options elsewhere, and lickety-split just like that you're on the superhighway to UL hell. :)

[Dogwood]

It shouldn't be surprising to you that loading up a 70 L pack lands you in the 30+ lb category. Consider you are using a 5 lb pack alone.. How much does your 2 days food weigh? If you really were a gram weenie you'd know. Add another 4.4 lbs for teh 2 L go H2O. That's about 9 1/2 lbs alone with the backpack and water. Add in the food wt and the three items total are more than 1/3 the total wt of your haul. Not surprising.

[Mr. Bumpy]

That's some dangerous logic there... next thing is to look for lighter options elsewhere, and lickety-split just like that you're on the superhighway to UL hell. :)

Nah. I just look at it like I'm just keeping up with the aging process. Maybe one day I will age down to a 25lb pack including 1W worth of food :)

[QuietStorm]

Back from my section hike. Thank you all for the advice. It's a process and a learning curve. I did take the synthetic bag but probably would have been ok without it. Temps got down to 27 at night but no wind. Waiting for my Revelation quilt to arrive in time for my next hike in two weeks. Am seriously considering looking at a ULA Circuit or something similar. Also learned that I've been taking too much water. Bad habit left over from the dry summer. Springs are running extremely well in PA right now.


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[Dogwood]

So refreshing to see you're open to at least considering advice and noticing you're development. :)

[QuietStorm]

Just bought a ULA Circuit and have reduced my base weight by 7 pounds.


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[Maineiac64]

Just bought a ULA Circuit and have reduced my base weight by 7 pounds.


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congratulations, you're a gram weenie. That's a good drop in base weight.

I also just ordered an EE quilt too, looking forward to getting it.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Hammocks are comfy, but 2+2.9+1.8+(down throw?), geez, I can carry my 4 season mountain tent and a beer for that kind of weight!!! If you can't get your shelter system down into the three pound range, you aren't allowed to even hint at the concept of "gram weenie".


This is the sole reason I haven't broken down and bought a hammock. Hammock, straps, tarp, underquilt, topquilt...at around 7-8 lbs? A TT DR, 20 deg bag and pad for me come in at a hair over 6 lbs.

[QuietStorm]

My shelter system--awitched to ENO single Nest. DIY down UQ. Hennessy Hex Fly tarp--is down to 3.36 lbs.


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[QuietStorm]

The top quilt is 21.88 oz.


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[Deacon]

The top quilt is 21.88 oz.


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Only gram weenies calculate weight to a hundredth of an ounce. [emoji3]

[4eyedbuzzard]

The top quilt is 21.88 oz.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat were your gps coordinates and what was the relative humidity? Because, yeah, we need to know all that to account for moisture weight and gravitational differences. :-? :rolleyes:

[nsherry61]

What were your gps coordinates and what was the relative humidity? Because, yeah, we need to know all that to account for moisture weight and gravitational differences. :-? :rolleyes:
Damn Buzzard, you beat me to it.

My nerd was coming out and I was about to type a similar response about moisture when your reply scrolled onto the screen.
I'd be willing to bet typical moisture content variability in a quilt might vary by as much as 1/2 oz or more.

And, from a yahoo answers post:
1 pound standard mass at top of Mt. Everest = 0.995657 pounds weight.
At the Dead sea, it would = 0.999238 pounds weight.

The difference is about 0.0036 pounds weight = 0.057 oz = 1.62 grams

[SouthMark]

When comparing tent systems with hammock systems, if you include the underquilt in the hammock system you must also include the pad in the tent system.


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[LongBlaze2019]

Back in the day we used to backpack with 60 pounds of ultralight gear. :)
I remember watching a documentary on the AT around 23 or 24 years ago and this guy was bragging that with food and water his pack weight was around 46 pounds and his hiking partners were envious of his light weight pack! [emoji23] [emoji23]

[Maineiac64]

I remember watching a documentary on the AT around 23 or 24 years ago and this guy was bragging that with food and water his pack weight was around 46 pounds and his hiking partners were envious of his light weight pack! [emoji23] [emoji23]

It wont be too long that we'll be able to have our drone drop off our gear/beer when we are ready to camp.

[LongBlaze2019]

It wont be too long that we'll be able to have our drone drop off our gear/beer when we are ready to camp.
That'll be the day!!

[QuietStorm]

Tried out lighter pack and geargrams. I really like geargrams. It's a standalone app. The gear library allows you to list everything you have and then pick what you plan to use for each hike. It creates a checklist. I've weighed everything, including my car key and Ziplock bags. I've reduced my base weight now by 8 pounds. There is still work to do and winter adds weight, but it's been a useful process. Can't wait to get out again this coming weekend with a lighter load.


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[cmoulder]

Tried out lighter pack and geargrams. I really like geargrams. It's a standalone app. The gear library allows you to list everything you have and then pick what you plan to use for each hike. It creates a checklist. I've weighed everything, including my car key and Ziplock bags. I've reduced my base weight now by 8 pounds. There is still work to do and winter adds weight, but it's been a useful process. Can't wait to get out again this coming weekend with a lighter load.


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For some more UL gear ideas and general UL philosophy, check out Mike Clelland's Ultralight Backpackin' Tips (https://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpackin-Tips-Inexpensive-Lightweight/dp/0762763841). Easy to find other good LW and UL books on Amazon such as Skurka's Ultimate Hiker's gear guide, etc.

Once you discover how liberating it is to carry a light pack, there's no going back, lol. :)

[poolskaterx]

It is fun to see your progress; take all the ribbing in from the others with a smile and keep posting with your experience going lighter... or even when you add something back (blasphemy,lol!)

[QuietStorm]

It is fun to see your progress; take all the ribbing in from the others with a smile and keep posting with your experience going lighter... or even when you add something back (blasphemy,lol!)

Thank you. It's a lot of fun actually. I'm a gear junkie and a planning nerd so I welcome any excuse to revisit my approach.


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[One Half]

I remember watching a documentary on the AT around 23 or 24 years ago and this guy was bragging that with food and water his pack weight was around 46 pounds and his hiking partners were envious of his light weight pack! [emoji23] [emoji23]

My husband and I have been part of those conversations! LOL

[QuietStorm]

I've just finished packing for this weekend's hiking and my total pack weight, including food and 1 liter of water is 21 pounds. Yeah baby.


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[cmoulder]

Wow, you've come a long way fast! :)

IMO just keep the distance goals modest at first with the primary objective being to test and become familiar with your new kit.

Welcome to the dark side... looking forward to your trip report, for sure! Have fun out there. :sun

[QuietStorm]

The trip went very well. Maiden voyage for the ULA Circuit and EE Revelation and both acquitted themselves well. Still making adjustments to the ULA to find that sweet spot for my right hip bone but otherwise the lighter weight allowed me to keep hiking. I stopped far less than before. The Roller Coaster was fun although a bit less so yesterday in the steady rain and strong winds.


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[nsherry61]

The trip went . . .
Congratulations! I love the sense of getting my gear and techniques dialed in and using them.

[cmoulder]

the lighter weight allowed me to keep hiking. I stopped far less than before

And that's the crux of it. :)

That, and not dreading hills any more, lol.

Congratulations on your successful start!

[Deacon]

Damn Buzzard, you beat me to it.

My nerd was coming out and I was about to type a similar response about moisture when your reply scrolled onto the screen.
I'd be willing to bet typical moisture content variability in a quilt might vary by as much as 1/2 oz or more.

And, from a yahoo answers post:
1 pound standard mass at top of Mt. Everest = 0.995657 pounds weight.
At the Dead sea, it would = 0.999238 pounds weight.

The difference is about 0.0036 pounds weight = 0.057 oz = 1.62 grams

Well, it's comforting to know that with each step taken uphill, your pack is getting lighter. [emoji3]

[Maineiac64]

Remember too that because of gravity time also moves faster up on Everest if you want to take that into account.

[cmoulder]

Remember too that because of gravity time also moves faster up on Everest if you want to take that into account.

But as someone once theorized, it's relative. :D

[RockDoc]

If you mess up your big 3 (bag, tent, and pack), there's little hope for a light pack. It's possible for each to be sub kilo, so that's 6-7 lbs. Add gear and food (don't carry water unless you need to) and you can stay under 20 lbs pretty easily. This is a fair-weather, lucky-guy kit (assumes nothing bad will happen).

For winter or harsh conditions (or unlucky guy), I would consider more and heavier gear, especially a heavier tent if storms are expected, or if you are spending 15 hrs/night in the tent.

[colorado_rob]

If you mess up your big 3 (bag, tent, and pack), there's little hope for a light pack. It's possible for each to be sub kilo, so that's 6-7 lbs. Add gear and food (don't carry water unless you need to) and you can stay under 20 lbs pretty easily. This is a fair-weather, lucky-guy kit (assumes nothing bad will happen).Sorry, not true at all (the last sentence). First of all, you can be sub POUND for each of the big three and be fully equipped. Alas, I'm at 1lb flat (tent), 1lb-5oz (20 degree bag) and 1lb-10oz (pack with a small frame), total 3lb-15 oz, not quite sub-pound. With the rest of my UL gear, I'm fully equipped and do not in any way rely on either weather or being "lucky". And I'm nothing special when it comes to UL hiking.

Myths abound, and are perpetuated, as in this example.

[cmoulder]

For winter or harsh conditions (or unlucky guy), I would consider more and heavier gear, especially a heavier tent if storms are expected, or if you are spending 15 hrs/night in the tent.

I'm glad there are so many people who think like this. It means I've got the winter woods to myself and my 18 lb pack. ;)

Sunrise this morning at my campsite: 38248

[poolskaterx]

Congratulations! It is quite a lovely moment when you see how good your new choices work out. Looking forward to hearing about more of your adventures.