View Full Version : Sleeping bag/pad Pack-Mounting
bladnik26
01-30-2017, 13:26
I have an Osprey Exos 48 that I have been training with for months and was planning on using for my upcoming 2017 NOBO thru-hike, but once I got all my gear together, I began to realize my minimalist pack-size mentality could be a problem. My sleeping pad is a ThermaRest ProLite Plus, and rolls up shorter than 12", so it cannot be held to the bottom of the pack with the given cords. My question then, is what is the best way of externally mounting my sleeping bag, a Kelty Tuck 22, to the bottom of my pack? Bungees? Accessory straps? How? Onto what? Thanks for your input, and happy trails!
Time Zone
01-30-2017, 13:39
Couple thoughts:
- isn't it conventional wisdom that an inflatable pad should be inside the pack anyway?
- could you fold your sleeping bag into fourths and then roll it up in a groundsheet so that it's a longer, thinner cylinder instead of the more keg-shaped stuff sack it comes with? And then that could be cinched to the underside of your Osprey pack.
HooKooDooKu
01-30-2017, 13:40
One option would be to roll up the ProLite Plus without folding it in half first. That would make rolling up the sleeping pad go a lot quicker.
But of course that might leave you with needing to either find/make a new stuff sack to help protect the sleeping pad, or risk it not being in a protective sack/sleeve.
Ok, you're on the AT and you're nnth bound. You get up in the AM, cram all your gear into your pack and you're off.
When during that hour and a half is our average hiker going to take the time and trouble to neatly pack everything ... not happening.
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Ashepabst
01-30-2017, 14:02
neither should be on the outside of your pack.
booney_1
01-30-2017, 14:09
I would advise you to go to REI and ask them for help.
My rough advice...get a bigger stuff sack, so when the sleeping bag is in it, it can be squished and reshaped.
Put sleeping bag on back of back and secure with two straps that are attached diagonally to the loops on this pack. Let these straps "squish" sleeping bag down.
Don't use bungees...the pack will bounces a lot and bungees tend to let things fall off.
Put your sleeping pad inside. It is fairly "delicate" and you don't want to puncture it.
nsherry61
01-30-2017, 14:27
As HooKooDooKu suggested, rolling your pad without folding it in half first is the obvious solution. I would discourage packing your sleeping bag outside since getting it wet is more of an issue and it won't hold it's shape and pack well that way, whereas your pad should do fine even without a stuff sack. There is great paranoia about packing an inflatable on the outside of your pack, but that's what we all did for years with the original ThermaRest mattresses that rolled up pretty much like your Prolite if you don't fold it in half first.
Then, if you want to be extra careful to avoid punctures on the outside of your pack, don't put it on the bottom, put it on the top horizontally under the cover flap (or brain if you're using it) or alternatively, run some elastic cord crisscross across the front of the pack (what I call the back of the pack since it is facing behind you) and just tuck the rolled up or folded up pad vertically on the front (back) of the pack.
Funny thing, I don't have pictures if my packs packed in these various ways, just of a few friends packs that don't have pads strapped to them. So, I stole some images of the internet to help picture what I'm talking about, albeit with zlite pads instead of a wide-rolled prolite.
Like this
38079
or like this
38078
Traveler
01-30-2017, 14:32
Agreed with the use of bungees for this not being a good idea. Straps are best in my view, providing a very tight bite on your gear and won't release until you want them to even in very wet environments.
ScareBear
01-30-2017, 15:47
I must be missing something here. How big is that sleeping bag? I'm fine tuning my Klymit 35L airframe pack for summer use and so far have no problem with the bag(Montbell SuperSpiralDown#3-30degree) and the inflatable sleeping pad(REI Stratus) fitting in the main compartment of the pack. Out of the big three(tent, bag, pad) it is your tent and poles that should go outside your pack, IMHO. Right now I can fit my tent body and fly(FlyCreekUL3!) in the main body as well, if its only a two night trip and I sub my Sawyer for my FirstNeedXLElite. If it were July or August, I'd ditch the Montbell for a 7 ounce liner or a 9 ounce SOL bivy bag and with the Sawyer probably have enough food for 4 days/3nights. Get a Cuben Fibre bag for your tent body and use some 2mm guy line to zig-zag strap the bag to your pack back(IIRC it has the loops...), if you don't have room in that pack...
daddytwosticks
01-30-2017, 16:10
I also have an Exos 48 with a WM megalite and a regular size TAR prolite. I am crammed for real estate when I go out for more than three days. My sleeping bag and pad ride inside the pack body. My shelter (MSR Hubba NX-1) is what's attached to the bottom of the pack. Everything else rides inside or in the pack's brain. :)
nsherry61
01-30-2017, 17:02
. . . My shelter (MSR Hubba NX-1) is what's attached to the bottom of the pack. . .
If attaching something as heavy as a tent (even if 3 lbs) to the outside of your bag, your load will likely carry better if you attach it to or under the lid, on the top of your pack to move you center of gravity off your butt and higher onto your back. But then, try it out and see what works best for you.
saltysack
01-30-2017, 17:46
Isn't 48 a top loader? Ditch stuff sacks for all cloths, bag etc..1 compactor bag utilizes space more efficiently...or as others said put pad under brain as thats how my son carries his bulky syn bag and ccf pad.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170130/90e1f3564ee2bc5f337eae2d6b13b9eb.jpg
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If I was u I would get a bag that packs smaller.
Thom
Slo-go'en
01-30-2017, 18:53
Get a bigger pack.
ScareBear
01-30-2017, 19:09
NSherry's 2nd(bottom) photo is how I would rig a Cuben stuff sack with your tent/fly body. Poles too if they won't fit in a side pocket. This keeps the pack more stable than loading weight above the shoulder straps, IMHO...YMMV...
Secondmouse
01-30-2017, 20:22
I have an Osprey Exos 48 that I have been training with for months and was planning on using for my upcoming 2017 NOBO thru-hike, but once I got all my gear together, I began to realize my minimalist pack-size mentality could be a problem. My sleeping pad is a ThermaRest ProLite Plus, and rolls up shorter than 12", so it cannot be held to the bottom of the pack with the given cords. My question then, is what is the best way of externally mounting my sleeping bag, a Kelty Tuck 22, to the bottom of my pack? Bungees? Accessory straps? How? Onto what? Thanks for your input, and happy trails!
hahahahaha, this is exactly what I was talking about in another thread. I see people with all kinds of crap hanging outside their bags because they feed into the small-bag dialogue.
piece of advice - small bags are for experienced user that have their method down to an art. use a bag that can easily carry everything you need and save the small bag until you change something that allows you to use it...
saltysack
01-30-2017, 20:51
No reason why a 48l plus mesh outer pockets isn't enough space...you really need to evaluate what your carrying!
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cmoulder
01-30-2017, 21:11
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. Packs such as the Exos 48 are designed for UL or at least very lightweight kit with 80-90% fitting inside the pack and very little on the outside, and definitely not stuff dangling from the pack. A 3lb synthetic sleeping bag alone will throw the whole scheme out of balance, so the choices are 1) get a bigger pack that fits the gear or 2) get with the program and develop a UL — or at least very lightweight — gear list appropriate for the Exos.
Secondmouse
01-31-2017, 13:02
No reason why a 48l plus mesh outer pockets isn't enough space...you really need to evaluate what your carrying!
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there's plenty of reason why someone can't fit everything in a 50L pack, not everyone has been doing this for years or has a budget that makes a shop owner's eyes sparkle...
saltysack
01-31-2017, 13:24
Key word is "everything "= too much CRAP...Less is better.....it's not hard to take less...but agree you learn after you get tired of carrying useless stuff that's not needed!!!!
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[QUOTE=Secondmouse;2123684]there's plenty of reason why someone can't fit everything in a 50L pack, not everyone has been doing this for years or has a budget that makes a shop owner's eyes sparkle
Gear first pack last . it's more expensive to start with a pack and buy the correct kit for pack size. So the op has a choice new pack or new kit.
Time Zone
01-31-2017, 13:39
there's plenty of reason why someone can't fit everything in a 50L pack, not everyone has been doing this for years or has a budget that makes a shop owner's eyes sparkle...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
What happened to "hike your own hike"?
Less is not always better, unless your sole concern is minimizing weight.
Choosing how much to carry involves tradeoffs - weight, money, comfort, convenience, durability, wear & tear on body and pack, pace, etc.
cmoulder
01-31-2017, 13:41
there's plenty of reason why someone can't fit everything in a 50L pack, not everyone has been doing this for years or has a budget that makes a shop owner's eyes sparkle...
...which is why it's best to get a bigger pack and not try to cram heavyweight gear into a too-small pack and have all manner of stuff dangling from the outside. And also make the agonizing discovery that a UL pack's suspension is very uncomfortable carrying over 25 lbs.
A big pack can carry a small load but a small pack can't carry a big load. Hence the age-old advice to buy the pack last when going UL.
Secondmouse
01-31-2017, 17:37
Key word is "everything "= too much CRAP...Less is better.....it's not hard to take less...but agree you learn after you get tired of carrying useless stuff that's not needed!!!!
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did I type too fast for you? :D
I'll say it again - "not everyone has been doing this for years".
give the kid a break...
Secondmouse
01-31-2017, 17:38
[QUOTE=Secondmouse;2123684]there's plenty of reason why someone can't fit everything in a 50L pack, not everyone has been doing this for years or has a budget that makes a shop owner's eyes sparkle
Gear first pack last . it's more expensive to start with a pack and buy the correct kit for pack size. So the op has a choice new pack or new kit.
exactly...
Secondmouse
01-31-2017, 17:39
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
What happened to "hike your own hike"?
Less is not always better, unless your sole concern is minimizing weight.
Choosing how much to carry involves tradeoffs - weight, money, comfort, convenience, durability, wear & tear on body and pack, pace, etc.
exactly...
Secondmouse
01-31-2017, 17:39
...which is why it's best to get a bigger pack and not try to cram heavyweight gear into a too-small pack and have all manner of stuff dangling from the outside. And also make the agonizing discovery that a UL pack's suspension is very uncomfortable carrying over 25 lbs.
A big pack can carry a small load but a small pack can't carry a big load. Hence the age-old advice to buy the pack last when going UL.
I'm sensing a pattern here...
:D
saltysack
01-31-2017, 17:42
did I type too fast for you? :D
I'll say it again - "not everyone has been doing this for years".
give the kid a break...
Not Intended to bust anyone's balls....he can carry what ever he wants.....packing your fears is true.......live and learn......offering my worthless opinion...
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ScareBear
01-31-2017, 21:49
Not worthless and entirely correct, IMHO...so there!
Secondmouse
01-31-2017, 22:57
Not Intended to bust anyone's balls....he can carry what ever he wants.....packing your fears is true.......live and learn......offering my worthless opinion...
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no I was just busting your balls. but I remember trying to figure out how to make everything fit so I can empathize a bit with the OP.
it's true, we do pack our fears, or at least our inexperience. go back and read the first post. he will, as you say, live and learn, but that takes time. just telling someone to take less won't give them the confidence or knowledge to make that work on the trail.
anyway, sorry. I was trying to be humorous and it didn't come off right. I wasn't trying to be disagreeable...
cmoulder
02-01-2017, 01:23
live and learn, but that takes time. just telling someone to take less won't give them the confidence or knowledge to make that work on the trail.
Quite accurate, and IMO the quickest path to success is taking a bunch of short trips, starting off with simple overnighters not too far from the trailhead (Safety!) and in good weather, and then gradually extending the distances, number of nights out and weather extremes as experience is gained. I still do these short trips when testing new kit or experimenting with new techniques.... this is totally independent of how much stuff you choose to take into the woods.
bladnik26
02-01-2017, 19:40
As a followup:
bladnik26
02-01-2017, 19:41
I have purchased an Osprey Atmos AG 65L pack arriving tomorrow, and I hope to go on a solid shakedown hike with it before heading to Amicalola Falls SP.
I'll add my rule of thumb for packing: nothing goes on the outside that I can't afford to lose. Pretty much shelter and bed falls into that category. You can either make room inside your pack for your important, expensive stuff, or you can get a bigger pack.
your decision.
The Cleaner
02-01-2017, 22:28
Here's what I've been using for a year or so.Got mine from Steep & Cheap.I strap it on top of my external frame pack along with my TarpTent.I can fit a BV500 inside of my pack.Clothes in the bottom and sleeping bag attached to frame under the clothes. http://www.barrabes.world/therm_a_rest-universal-stuffsack-26-l/p-63498?idvariedad=252090&opt=d&utm_source=Google.eeuu&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_campaign=producto&gclid=CIaT35Ot8NECFYs7gQod1JUAtA
RollTide
02-02-2017, 00:20
I'm thinking this is on topic, but don't flame me if it's off the reservation. Striving for UL & have the Solplex tent paired with the Arc Blast pack. Plenty of room inside the pack to place the tent, but because that pack is basically a gigantic "dry bag" wouldn't it be best to just crumble up the Solplex into the front pouch?
If there is any condensation, it's just going to get trapped inside the pack all day if the tent is packed inside. So should I just always pack that tent on the outside of the pack? It's only a pound.
cmoulder
02-02-2017, 08:45
I'm thinking this is on topic, but don't flame me if it's off the reservation. Striving for UL & have the Solplex tent paired with the Arc Blast pack. Plenty of room inside the pack to place the tent, but because that pack is basically a gigantic "dry bag" wouldn't it be best to just crumble up the Solplex into the front pouch?
If there is any condensation, it's just going to get trapped inside the pack all day if the tent is packed inside. So should I just always pack that tent on the outside of the pack? It's only a pound.
Nothing horribly wrong with this, although if you keep hats/gloves/windshells in that pocket the Solplex will make them harder to access because cuben fiber, despite its low weight, does not compress nearly as well as silnylon and will take up the entire pocket. Also, abrasion is the #1 enemy of cuben and is therefore one of the few things for which a stuff sack is probably a good idea, even for ardent UL advocates. Maybe keep it in the stuff sack on the outside of the pack so that it is easily accessible for drying later in the day, maybe for a lunch stop? The nice thing about cuben is that it dries very quickly with a small amount of sun and a bit of a breeze.
saltysack
02-02-2017, 09:17
Nothing horribly wrong with this, although if you keep hats/gloves/windshells in that pocket the Solplex will make them harder to access because cuben fiber, despite its low weight, does not compress nearly as well as silnylon and will take up the entire pocket. Also, abrasion is the #1 enemy of cuben and is therefore one of the few things for which a stuff sack is probably a good idea, even for ardent UL advocates. Maybe keep it in the stuff sack on the outside of the pack so that it is easily accessible for drying later in the day, maybe for a lunch stop? The nice thing about cuben is that it dries very quickly with a small amount of sun and a bit of a breeze.
Just what I was thinking....in my frameless pack I've found the cuben Duomid fills the voids much better when simply placed inside a plastic grocery bag at top inside pack...i.e. Bottom is compactor bag w all dry items, then food bag then shelter. The long narrow stuff sack doesn't carry as well but I'm alittle concerned with cuben rubbing inside pack as plastic bag offers lil protection. Cuben food bag got hole after my cook pot rubbed it even inside mesh pouch....
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Secondmouse
02-02-2017, 12:32
I have purchased an Osprey Atmos AG 65L pack arriving tomorrow, and I hope to go on a solid shakedown hike with it before heading to Amicalola Falls SP.
good solid pack. a little heavy for a thru but this will definitely get you started and this is how we learn. congratulations...
ZombieDust66
02-03-2017, 12:38
I have an Osprey Exos 48 that I have been training with for months and was planning on using for my upcoming 2017 NOBO thru-hike, but once I got all my gear together, I began to realize my minimalist pack-size mentality could be a problem. My sleeping pad is a ThermaRest ProLite Plus, and rolls up shorter than 12", so it cannot be held to the bottom of the pack with the given cords. My question then, is what is the best way of externally mounting my sleeping bag, a Kelty Tuck 22, to the bottom of my pack? Bungees? Accessory straps? How? Onto what? Thanks for your input, and happy trails!
I have this pack also. I don't call myself UL, but more of a minimalist.
My 2 cents.
1. You should be able to use the Exos 48 for your summer gear, but you will need to get creative for your winter gear. You can have the 48 sent to you during the warmer months.
2. I'd definitely keep my sleeping bag in the pack.
3. I have no problem carrying my inflatable sleeping in the outer mesh compartment, but I usually wrap it my foot print or rain gear.
4. If I run out of room in my pack, I'll take some food out of my food bag and put it in a big Ziploc and carry that in the mesh or strap it down.
*Full disclosure- I don't carry a stove or pot and usually just have 4 days worth of food and no more that 2 liters of water.
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I have an Osprey Exos 48 that I have been training with for months and was planning on using for my upcoming 2017 NOBO thru-hike, but once I got all my gear together, I began to realize my minimalist pack-size mentality could be a problem. My sleeping pad is a ThermaRest ProLite Plus, and rolls up shorter than 12", so it cannot be held to the bottom of the pack with the given cords. My question then, is what is the best way of externally mounting my sleeping bag, a Kelty Tuck 22, to the bottom of my pack? Bungees? Accessory straps? How? Onto what? Thanks for your input, and happy trails!
I don't see the Osprey Exos 48 as a minimalist pack size. i don't see that pack being your larger issue. I see the synthetic Kelty Tuck 22* at 3 lbs (for up to 6' users) for that temp rating and 8"x13" packed size being more of the issue.
To each their own but I like sleeping bags stored inside my pack not outside and NOT hanging off the bottom of a pack which interferes with my stride. In this case if you stored the sleeping pad vertically via some UL cinch straps outside the pack making sure to thread one of the cinch straps through the included ProLite Plus stuff sack cord height med height on the back and used a compression sack to get that sleeping bag volume down a bit I'd go that route instead.
Disadvantage to this is possible hole in the inflatable ProLite Plus but the Plus is a bit beefier than say the Neo Air Xlite and the stuff sack, attaching up med-high on the back of the pack(as opposed to letting it dangle from the lower axe/trekking pole/gear loops or tying lower to pack) and with a little care to not just throw your pack onto the ground on it's shovel pocket/back side should be just fine.
If you still are adamant about the sleeping pad outside hanging from the lower Exos loops you could put cinch straps around the pad and then attach to the strap to the loops. This will likely result in a lower hanging sleeping pad.
People firmly attach gear to some extent safely onto the outside of their packs regularly including sleeping bags and sleeping pads including inflatable sleeping pads. In retrospect might be a good learning experience to get your food and water volume dialed down. :)
Tipi Walter although having a humongous wt and volume load, and doing short mileage days, does it regularly. Depends on how you hike and you're willingness to make adaptations- things work for yourself.
Just noticed nsherry's pics. there ya go.
Isn't 48 a top loader? Ditch stuff sacks for all cloths, bag etc..1 compactor bag utilizes space more efficiently...or as others said put pad under brain as thats how my son carries his bulky syn bag and ccf pad.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170130/90e1f3564ee2bc5f337eae2d6b13b9eb.jpg
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Who's that brat? Wasn't he running around looking for a little lost yappy JRT cashing a bear? :)
Apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Looks just like his dad. Poor boy having to grow up looking like that. Maybe, he'll grow out of those looks? :D
Good looking kid like his dad. Mother must be good looking too. That's a kid having a good time...with his DAD taking the time to invest in his son. NICE Salty! WOW, something normal and showing consideration for familty. Every pic of you too Salty you have that look of contentment this is where I want to be doing this thing in the moment sane not escaped from the psycho ward or chain gang look. :D
Just Tom
02-03-2017, 17:10
I have an Osprey Exos 48 that I have been training with for months and was planning on using for my upcoming 2017 NOBO thru-hike, but once I got all my gear together, I began to realize my minimalist pack-size mentality could be a problem. My sleeping pad is a ThermaRest ProLite Plus, and rolls up shorter than 12", so it cannot be held to the bottom of the pack with the given cords. My question then, is what is the best way of externally mounting my sleeping bag, a Kelty Tuck 22, to the bottom of my pack? Bungees? Accessory straps? How? Onto what? Thanks for your input, and happy trails!
Late to the party on this one but:
1. Granite Gear makes a "Tough Sack" stuff sack specifcally designed for a thermarest rolled without folding in half first, if you even need to carry it on the outside.
2. Try this out (in whatever pack you use). Fully deflate the pad. Place in the backpack first like a large tube or barrel, and then expand it to take up the whole inside circumference of the bag. Now pack into that void.
G-FOURce
02-03-2017, 19:10
For my weekend trips I hump an Atmos 50 with warm clothes, sleeping bag, Jetboil, UL2 platinum, SLX, ZLite, food, and miscellaneous items and I have LOTS of extra room. Note: ZLite goes on the outside. I just grabbed an Ohm 2.0 and its huge for my weekenders. A 48L Exos seems like it should handle a week's carry if your gear is appropriate and you're packing right.
saltysack
02-03-2017, 20:55
Who's that brat? Wasn't he running around looking for a little lost yappy JRT cashing a bear? :)
Apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Looks just like his dad. Poor boy having to grow up looking like that. Maybe, he'll grow out of those looks? :D
Good looking kid like his dad. Mother must be good looking too. That's a kid having a good time...with his DAD taking the time to invest in his son. NICE Salty! WOW, something normal and showing consideration for familty. Every pic of you too Salty you have that look of contentment this is where I want to be doing this thing in the moment sane not escaped from the psycho ward or chain gang look. :D
Haaaaa!!! LMAO....https://vimeo.com/202477544
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saltysack
02-03-2017, 21:47
Who's that brat? Wasn't he running around looking for a little lost yappy JRT cashing a bear? :)
Apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Looks just like his dad. Poor boy having to grow up looking like that. Maybe, he'll grow out of those looks? :D
Good looking kid like his dad. Mother must be good looking too. That's a kid having a good time...with his DAD taking the time to invest in his son. NICE Salty! WOW, something normal and showing consideration for familty. Every pic of you too Salty you have that look of contentment this is where I want to be doing this thing in the moment sane not escaped from the psycho ward or chain gang look. :D
DW
Yea mom is a looker.....he gets his looks from her!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170204/ff5204d3d4ebf50a6b9b9fa0ab58b23d.jpg
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With Boo Boo baby honey pie hanging around just back from a wally world Hamm's beer run looking sa durn wighteous you tah must never weave da trailer.
Did she steel'er dat chair from Archie Bunker?
Son has the same smile as you with that same facial expression. Son(and JRT) look like they are having a riot. Bet the kid gives out before the dog. ;)
saltysack
02-06-2017, 09:58
With Boo Boo baby honey pie hanging around just back from a wally world Hamm's beer run looking sa durn wighteous you tah must never weave da trailer.
Did she steel'er dat chair from Archie Bunker?
Son has the same smile as you with that same facial expression. Son(and JRT) look like they are having a riot. Bet the kid gives out before the dog. ;)
[emoji38]....actually found a pic from a trip last year with the wife....going UL!!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/3998c9d75745631ce71e656d91f4e25f.jpg
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Sandy of PA
02-06-2017, 17:43
My husband saw that picture and wanted to go buy that REI pack for our next walk in the woods, naughty boy!
saltysack
02-06-2017, 22:02
My husband saw that picture and wanted to go buy that REI pack for our next walk in the woods, naughty boy!
[emoji23]
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I'm hungry.
That's taking UL to the next level.
I have a big 2 p tent. You look a little chilly. :D
If someone came out with a hiker girl calendar like that date function on my watch would suddenly see much less use.
Why, why hasn't it been done yet... hiker girl calendar...signed...with a lipstick kiss on every month's hiker pic, with added UL powdered bonus red wine packet...while supplies last?
saltysack
02-07-2017, 10:30
I'm hungry.
That's taking UL to the next level.
I have a big 2 p tent. You look a little chilly. :D
This your tent? Ha u wish!!!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170207/09d8073b494867c21b5564fc2064c992.jpg
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cmoulder
02-07-2017, 10:35
Wow, which tent is that?? :)
saltysack
02-07-2017, 10:46
Wow, which tent is that?? :)
Looks like a Marmot! I'd gladly carry that heavy tent for her!!!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170207/7568fe08ab295292d0790b0602854b13.jpg
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I have in the past taken my inflatable, lined the inside of my bag with it, then stuffed my sleeping bag in second filling up the bottom of my pack. A Prolite should fit, fine this way in a 48L bag. This gets rid of two stuff sacks, it makes loading easier in the morning and setting up at night. If anything goes on the outside of my pack it is my tent, tarp and or poles.
Always have liked Marmots.
Please stop now. The kid is watching. :D
Sex in a Tent is a good read for folks to open up their minds to the idea of getting intimate in the outdoors. Leave it casually laying(no pun intended) around the house for the SO to browse pre trip. Bet she looks at it. Might surprise you is she's more creatively open to experiencing romance outdoors if we take some hints to fulfill our partner's desires.
saltysack
02-10-2017, 08:03
Always have liked Marmots.
Please stop now. The kid is watching. :D
Sex in a Tent is a good read for folks to open up their minds to the idea of getting intimate in the outdoors. Leave it casually laying(no pun intended) around the house for the SO to browse pre trip. Bet she looks at it. Might surprise you is she's more creatively open to experiencing romance outdoors if we take some hints to fulfill our partner's desires.
I guess the term "more head room applies". I knew I bought the DUO MID for a reason!!!![emoji23]