Defibrilators and backpacks?

[IroquoisArcher]

Just wondering what you guys with pacemakers and defibrilators do with your shoulder straps (if it's in your shoulder area)? Put more padding on the strap or haven't had the original strap effect it any? Just curious (and yes I have one but have only used knapsacks for local stuff).

[egilbe]

Most of the weight should be on your hips, not your shoulders.

[Offshore]

As egilbe says, most of the weight should be borne by your hips and not your shoulders. The shoulder straps really just stabilize the pack and keep it from pivoting backwards over the hip belt. You'll need to pay particular attention to getting a pack properly fit (I'd bring your actual gear and not rely on the beanbag weights the retailers use). You should also learn how to load your pack so that the center of gravity is as close to your back as possible to keep the load on the hip belt. I'd look at the Osprey and Gregory lines. They are often the subject of scorn here as they are not ultralight, but they carry extremely well.

[gpburdelljr]

I think the OP wants replies from backpackers that actually have pacemakers, or defibrillators.

[Offshore]

I think the OP wants replies from backpackers that actually have pacemakers, or defibrillators.

And I think this board already has moderators, but thanks for the input. From his post, the OP is concerned with the shoulder straps on a backpack affecting an implanted device, but stated he only has experience with daypacks. The fact that daypacks carry weight on the shoulders and backpacks carry weight in the hips is an important distinction of which the OP may not be aware. (I also didn't see any replies in this thread that would preclude anyone with similar implanted medical devices from adding their experience to the discussion.) OP may not may not have a problem with a backpack, but that is really a question best discussed with his cardiologist, isn't it?

[IroquoisArcher]

TY for the replies. Guess maybe I phrased it wrong but was primarily interested in those who actually have an implanted device in their shoulder area. Yes I said knapsacks, mainly getting trail cameras out, so know the weight isn't anywhere else but the shoulders basically. The backpacking/camping I've done is limited and have had a few packs on with light loads that guess should have mentioned but usually this was only for a brief walk to a location. I know the hips support the majority of the weight but the question again was more to if those with implants in their shoulder put extra padding or what. I basically only wear a lapbelt while driving just due to the fact that the pressure is noticable if wearing summer clothes. Carrying a heavier pack is again what I wanted to hear from those who do experience it. Sorry for not phrasing it right and do appreciate people not knowing exactly my experience or what I was looking for but offering good advice. I just don't want this thread to get into debating back and forth.

[IroquoisArcher]

Sorry, didn't include this but yes have talked to my cardiologist who says hiking/backpacking would be a big help stamina wise. Never thought to ask about this at the time plus they don't do this so are unaware of it.

[Dogwood]

Most of the weight should be on your hips, not your shoulders.

YUP, particularly for you're situation Iroquois Archer. But read on...


As egilbe says, most of the weight should be borne by your hips and not your shoulders. The shoulder straps really just stabilize the pack and keep it from pivoting backwards over the hip belt. You'll need to pay particular attention to getting a pack properly fit (I'd bring your actual gear and not rely on the beanbag weights the retailers use). You should also learn how to load your pack so that the center of gravity is as close to your back as possible to keep the load on the hip belt...


...From his post, the OP is concerned with the shoulder straps on a backpack affecting an implanted device, but stated he only has experience with daypacks. The fact that daypacks carry weight on the shoulders and backpacks carry weight in the hips is an important distinction of which the OP may not be aware. (I also didn't see any replies in this thread that would preclude anyone with similar implanted medical devices from adding their experience to the discussion.) OP may not may not have a problem with a backpack, but that is really a question best discussed with his cardiologist, isn't it?

Let's all be nice. We're all adding to the thread.

Great distinctions made by OffShore between day hike loads, typical day hike packs, and multi-day backpacks and loads. While certainly agreeing to keep the cardiologists in the loop some associated backpacker experiences should be on the table too.

I'll add, if I'm allowed, :) as one with a medical implanted device - a mechanical mitral valve, having thru hiked the AT two yrs after the open heart surgery(split my chest muscles open like pork ribs on a bar-b-cue spit), having experienced being hit as a pedestrian walking his bike across the highway by a speeding car going 75 MPH three months before that AT thru hike start, and having just done my first week end long backpack since experiencing a broken clavicle(golfball size bone node now on my right shoulder) not only should the wt be on the hips and you have a properly fitted pack and, of course, aim for reducing your load volume and kit wt!, but properly know how to adjust the pack. Play with the shoulder straps for comfortable fit by placing wider or narrower on the tops of the shoulders, adjusting the shoulder strap adjustment buckles/triglides/etc to tighten or loosen the shoulder harness and adjust the length of the sternum strap for more comfortable fit both in horizontal length and up and down vertically along the shoulder harness webbing or webbing track(as some packs have like Osprey). The shoulder harness and sternum strap adjusted correctly WITH the majority of the UL kit I usually have firmly on hips is much more comfortable not only from a cardiology concern but also respiratory(I'm not depressing the lungs so I can get a full inhale/exhale which helps more easily oxygenating the body) and improves musculoskeletal form(I'm not slumping my shoulders far forward which throws body alignment off that affects back, hips, knees, feet, etc). I see a good many, including myself at one time, until I was taught otherwise that my sternum strap was too tight or too low depressing my lungs not in the right vertical alignment and having too rigidly overly tightened shoulder straps. The overly tightened shoulder harness and sometimes sternum strap occurs because the load isn't properly resting on the hips where it belongs especially important as the load wt increases AND even more so with cardiovascular conditions. I find a good test of the load wt being on my hips and centered close to my center of gravity close to my body is after adjusting everything totally loosening the shoulder harness and sternum straps. The backpack SHOULD be resting on my hips not sliding below them or drastically falling away from the small of the back. After doing this the shoulder harness should still have its range of loose play not tighten back up telling me the load is too much on my shoulders.

Good hiking form plays a factor in how well one feels on trail, what endurance one has. True for everyone but perhaps more so with a pacemaker/defibrillator. Practice backpacking with a somewhat erect but slightly forward stance not taking massively long strides until more experienced and on flatter terrain. Practice it off trail on flat terrain. At times on trail, since my posture wasn't optimal off trail in my youth, it carried over to slumping forward too much. I largely rid myself of that by sometimes backpacking with my hands on my hips which tends to bring the shoulders up and back and intently aiming to keep my chin vertical(keeps me more alert, easier to breathe, and assertive as well!) and flexing my shoulder blades backwards. I regularly stretch and crack my back both on and off trail It's AMAZING how much better I feel and breathe when I have the correct posture and musculoskeletal alignment like immediately after a chiropractor visit!!! Practice having the load on the hips! Practice establishing a rhythm. Then bring it onto the trail knowing to adjust for terrain differences ie; shorter less riser height stride length ascending, decrease riser height and add intermediate steps descending, don't pound down the trail!. I was an idiot on the PCT NOT doing this as often as I should which almost permanently took me off the thru-hike and as a NEWB younger runner and high impact aerobics class attendee. It carried over to my on hard court tennis career. Think light. Think go with flow. Go with your momentum. Watch someone like Andrew Skurka who flows FAST! Consider trekking pole use not to substitute for these techniques but to enhance them! That's what Andrew does or many of the regular hikers using trekking poles especially some of those within the faster LD community. Note you're doing your hike not someone else's. It doesn't matter how fast or slow someone else goes. Be mindful of doing your hike according to your abilities.

Backpacking is NOT just walking! Better work on it as a regular and longer duration backpacker.

FWIW, I've met a guesstimating 25 or so backpackers, some LD thru-hikers, joyfully and safely with pacemakers, defibrillators, cardiovascular medical implant devices, and three I recall having heart transplants.

You're in good company. :D

"...talked to my cardiologist who says hiking/backpacking would be a big help stamina wise." This is what I was told and several of those 25 pointedly told me their doctors also said it to them. Definitely work with the MD's on this though.

[billreillyjr]

I have both and it didn't make any difference,wore my pack the same before and after.

[IroquoisArcher]

Thanks Dogwood. Is more what I was looking for. (not trying to one up you but have had open heart 3X, 1976, 1990 and 2000 and agree that sucks having the sternum split open) and have a mechanical atrial and mitral valve...suckers are loud if sleeping with mouth open!). Currently have been looking at packs and that's why have been asking about a few on here but had never given reason/condition, my bad. Currently researching the Granite Gear Lutsen 55l medium size (I'm 135# and just over 5'6"...58 also...insert sad face here, lol. IMeasuring the back as have seen on here am a smidge over 16" and the med. pack looked to me like was the proper size plus the adj if needed would allow some leeway. It is the 2016 model, new, and had questioned and it had the adj. back and hip sections (guess this would be another question if this is good or not but of course placed in a different section). Do have trekking poles ( also tend to slump over) planning on using. Know the AT is out for long distances so planning on some short hikes on different trails around here in PA as maybe 2-3 days but close so if find difficult can get picked up so not to overdo. Later on as fe4el comfortable want to up it to maybe 4 days at a time and then come home to catch up on stuff and then later do this again. Plan on parts of the AT over several (5 or more) years and still may never complete it but hey have to dream some. Thanks billrileyjr. That too is something I was hoping to see. I knew again about the hips carrying most of the weight and the packing knew the short local hikes would allow to learn better how to do it. Only major time back packed was back in the early 80's into the Absaroorika Beartooth Wilderness for only a couple days on a hunting trip. Packed out a 100# bear hide up and over the mountains and that was a cheap external pack and way before having the defibrilator so was a totally different situation. Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Traillium]

YUP, particularly for you're situation Iroquois Archer. But read on...





Let's all be nice. We're all adding to the thread.

Great distinctions made by OffShore between day hike loads, typical day hike packs, and multi-day backpacks and loads. While certainly agreeing to keep the cardiologists in the loop some associated backpacker experiences should be on the table too.

I'll add, if I'm allowed, :) as one with a medical implanted device - a mechanical mitral valve, having thru hiked the AT two yrs after the open heart surgery(split my chest muscles open like pork ribs on a bar-b-cue spit), having experienced being hit as a pedestrian walking his bike across the highway by a speeding car going 75 MPH three months before that AT thru hike start, and having just done my first week end long backpack since experiencing a broken clavicle(golfball size bone node now on my right shoulder) not only should the wt be on the hips and you have a properly fitted pack and, of course, aim for reducing your load volume and kit wt!, but properly know how to adjust the pack. Play with the shoulder straps for comfortable fit by placing wider or narrower on the tops of the shoulders, adjusting the shoulder strap adjustment buckles/triglides/etc to tighten or loosen the shoulder harness and adjust the length of the sternum strap for more comfortable fit both in horizontal length and up and down vertically along the shoulder harness webbing or webbing track(as some packs have like Osprey). The shoulder harness and sternum strap adjusted correctly WITH the majority of the UL kit I usually have firmly on hips is much more comfortable not only from a cardiology concern but also respiratory(I'm not depressing the lungs so I can get a full inhale/exhale which helps more easily oxygenating the body) and improves musculoskeletal form(I'm not slumping my shoulders far forward which throws body alignment off that affects back, hips, knees, feet, etc). I see a good many, including myself at one time, until I was taught otherwise that my sternum strap was too tight or too low depressing my lungs not in the right vertical alignment and having too rigidly overly tightened shoulder straps. The overly tightened shoulder harness and sometimes sternum strap occurs because the load isn't properly resting on the hips where it belongs especially important as the load wt increases AND even more so with cardiovascular conditions. I find a good test of the load wt being on my hips and centered close to my center of gravity close to my body is after adjusting everything totally loosening the shoulder harness and sternum straps. The backpack SHOULD be resting on my hips not sliding below them or drastically falling away from the small of the back. After doing this the shoulder harness should still have its range of loose play not tighten back up telling me the load is too much on my shoulders.

Good hiking form plays a factor in how well one feels on trail, what endurance one has. True for everyone but perhaps more so with a pacemaker/defibrillator. Practice backpacking with a somewhat erect but slightly forward stance not taking massively long strides until more experienced and on flatter terrain. Practice it off trail on flat terrain. At times on trail, since my posture wasn't optimal off trail in my youth, it carried over to slumping forward too much. I largely rid myself of that by sometimes backpacking with my hands on my hips which tends to bring the shoulders up and back and intently aiming to keep my chin vertical(keeps me more alert, easier to breathe, and assertive as well!) and flexing my shoulder blades backwards. I regularly stretch and crack my back both on and off trail It's AMAZING how much better I feel and breathe when I have the correct posture and musculoskeletal alignment like immediately after a chiropractor visit!!! Practice having the load on the hips! Practice establishing a rhythm. Then bring it onto the trail knowing to adjust for terrain differences ie; shorter less riser height stride length ascending, decrease riser height and add intermediate steps descending, don't pound down the trail!. I was an idiot on the PCT NOT doing this as often as I should which almost permanently took me off the thru-hike and as a NEWB younger runner and high impact aerobics class attendee. It carried over to my on hard court tennis career. Think light. Think go with flow. Go with your momentum. Watch someone like Andrew Skurka who flows FAST! Consider trekking pole use not to substitute for these techniques but to enhance them! That's what Andrew does or many of the regular hikers using trekking poles especially some of those within the faster LD community. Note you're doing your hike not someone else's. It doesn't matter how fast or slow someone else goes. Be mindful of doing your hike according to your abilities.

Backpacking is NOT just walking! Better work on it as a regular and longer duration backpacker.

FWIW, I've met a guesstimating 25 or so backpackers, some LD thru-hikers, joyfully and safely with pacemakers, defibrillators, cardiovascular medical implant devices, and three I recall having heart transplants.

You're in good company. :D

"...talked to my cardiologist who says hiking/backpacking would be a big help stamina wise." This is what I was told and several of those 25 pointedly told me their doctors also said it to them. Definitely work with the MD's on this though.

Great insights, sir!

[ScareBear]

Thanks Dogwood. Is more what I was looking for. (not trying to one up you but have had open heart 3X, 1976, 1990 and 2000 and agree that sucks having the sternum split open) and have a mechanical atrial and mitral valve...suckers are loud if sleeping with mouth open!). Currently have been looking at packs and that's why have been asking about a few on here but had never given reason/condition, my bad. Currently researching the Granite Gear Lutsen 55l medium size (I'm 135# and just over 5'6"...58 also...insert sad face here, lol. IMeasuring the back as have seen on here am a smidge over 16" and the med. pack looked to me like was the proper size plus the adj if needed would allow some leeway. It is the 2016 model, new, and had questioned and it had the adj. back and hip sections (guess this would be another question if this is good or not but of course placed in a different section). Do have trekking poles ( also tend to slump over) planning on using. Know the AT is out for long distances so planning on some short hikes on different trails around here in PA as maybe 2-3 days but close so if find difficult can get picked up so not to overdo. Later on as fe4el comfortable want to up it to maybe 4 days at a time and then come home to catch up on stuff and then later do this again. Plan on parts of the AT over several (5 or more) years and still may never complete it but hey have to dream some. Thanks billrileyjr. That too is something I was hoping to see. I knew again about the hips carrying most of the weight and the packing knew the short local hikes would allow to learn better how to do it. Only major time back packed was back in the early 80's into the Absaroorika Beartooth Wilderness for only a couple days on a hunting trip. Packed out a 100# bear hide up and over the mountains and that was a cheap external pack and way before having the defibrilator so was a totally different situation. Thanks again for the suggestions.

Congrats on having a plan for your dream that is reasonable for both your experience and your health.

Only you will be able to tell whether LD hiking on the AT is for you. I don't think I would suggest immersion therapy with your first hike being in the mountains of GA/NC/TN or NH/ME, though! However, I do think you will be able to find your limits fairly quickly with the plan you have, and then you will be able to determine what your heart is/isn't capable of. Obviously you already are aware that if you weren't in great shape physically before the valves...then it is a real uphill battle to obtain good conditioning, especially at our age.

If I had a defib diverter device implanted, I would have to think long and hard about WILDERNESS backpacking or hiking in precarious positions/locations...the device is there for a reason, and it's not a fun one. When it goes BANG three times in a row...it is trouble and trouble on the AT, no phone service and 5 miles from a trail head and maybe an hour or two, minimum to an E/R might mean a very very bad outcome. Even when it goes off once, you must immediately notify your doctor for further instructions...

Look, I'm not the harbinger of doom or anything. I am a realist. For example, thousands of tourists fly to Jamaica every year with serious medical conditions and expect things to be fine if they need emergency care. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only decent trauma or advanced life support is on PR, a flight away. Most have to be air evac'd to Miami, over two hours away. And, that is once you are airborne. The sad fact is that most tourists to JA that have a severe medical event requiring immediate medical intervention(including fatal allergic reactions) never even make it to the airport...treat the AT the same way. A thru-hiker recently got frostbite and probably hypothermia and had to be ambulanced to the ER from Top of Georgia hostel. The ride was 1.5 hours from TOG....now picture if you weren't at a trail head, your defib is going off, you are dizzy and weak and can't walk...how does this end well?????

I have medical conditions as well(doesn't everyone?) and as I've aged, I have had to adjust my outdoor lifestyle experience to deal with both medical conditions and the aging process. That's life....sorry....

Anyway, I do think you have the right idea about easing into it and being realistic about what you can achieve. Now, as far as packs...this is the one time I am going to say NO to ultralite. Get something that is ultra comfortable and can carry all the load easily on your hips. REI is essentially an Osprey and Gregory store these days, with it's own Flash packs thrown in. But, for you, that's a great thing! You can try on three of the most comfortable load-capable packs right there in the store!!!

Good luck with your endeavor!!!

[IroquoisArcher]

Thanks ScareBear (trying to scare me with your response? lol). Yes when the defib. goes off it hurts, mine is like someone swinging a bat from the inside as hard as they can. Mine is programed that if it beats 179bpm for 12 consecutive beats then it hits me. Only ever been hit 2X in a row. Puts the heart rate immediately down to 65 bpm or so so yes it fatigues you real quick. Yep that is why easing into this. Thanks for feeling this is better way to do it as really am learning alot on here (Dogwoods response was good and insightful). Yeah figured the UL backpack wasn't the way to go and also figured go bigger (55) instead of smaller on the pack. No REI around here close by that I've seen but do have a local Field & Streamthat has a bigger camping section then any of the other places around here. Have been asking questions in there plus then searching on here plus Backpacker mainly on the packs, where the Granite Gear Lusten saw and trying to research. F&S unfortunately isn't someplace I really feel is "expert" enough. Salesperson was saying the Kelty 50 was the best selling pack (was basically the most expensive one he had) and hadn't even mentioned sizing but that it was the one his wife used and was comfortable. Anywho am appreciating the comments so thanks everyone.