View Full Version : Free AT maps
Does anyone know of any "Free as in Speech" (or even free as in beer, come to think of it) AT map source? Or a good alternative to shelling out the ~$168+ for the set via www.atctrailstore.org? I've heard one poster mention Delorme Gazetteer maps, but these go for about $20 a pop (by state). Are state road maps worth carrying (ie detailed enough to be useful --cut to useful proportions, or course). I am scouring E-Bay and the such for my immediate need but my bigger question is:
1) Are there any maps available somewhere for the price of the paper they are printed on, by some federal service, or by some charitable publisher?
2) Has anyone got a clever trick to share on some other map source to save money?
Oh yeah, shoulder surfings not what I have in mind ;-)
The first thing I would do is browse this page:
http://www.fred.net/kathy/at/maps.html
A few useful AT maps online:
http://www.nps.gov/applications/parks/appa/ppMaps/ATmap%2Epdf
The official NPS AT map is here:
http://www.rhodesmill.org/thefox/maps.html
National Park Service maps here:
http://www.nps.gov/applications/hafe/hfc/carto.cfm
Print them out and cut them down to size.
I would recommend visiting a university or research library Map Room. Depending on the policy of the library, some might allow you to copy maps. Even w/o color, in B&W, many of these have been very useful.
The Map Librarian at my school library not only located the maps I wanted for me, she even copied them for me and (!) cut the margins off with one of those sliding paper cutters! I did my homework and left with the maps I needed. Your mileage may vary.
They even had a copy of the NPS AT map I referenced above...I cut it down and into manageable sections for the hike.
One more thing: my business is maps, and they're not cheap to produce. I'm one of the people that provides the data that is processed to create the hardcopy map that gets printed. It's a bit unrealistic for a hiker to think he's going to get good-quality maps for free, but I would also check eBay for some of the maps you mentioned, or try to get recent copies from former thru-hikers.
minnesotasmith
01-22-2006, 09:02
It has lousy resolution. Its scale is inconvenient, and the maps are hard to read, almost as if they were run on a color copier that was running out of toner. The Gazeteer is mainly just a version of state topographic maps, like they have in the far right corner on the wall at the Amicalola ranger station, only difficult to read and not much use to a hiker IMO.
Yes, the ATC Maps are expensive. Too expensive, I think. But I wouldn't worry about getting them.
Even though I do cartography for a living, I've never understood why any AT hiker would think he needs a complete set of official, full color glossy maps.
I would try the library first. Then used maps, slightly out of date, from other hikers (perhaps eBay).
I doubt quad maps and topo maps are very useful to a thru-hiker. I think the average hiker understands contour and elevation but map scales are a different story altogether. When I see experienced hikers consulting maps, it's for mileage, boundaries of state and national parks, how far to nearest services and roads, &c. You don't need maps for that...just use the Databook.
I forgot this important map:
http://www.monmouth.com/~johno/A%20Large%20Detailed%20Map%20of%20the%20Appalachia n%20Trail.htm
Also, when I said "Databook" above, I meant The Companion. I also meant to add that it's crazy not to take maps with you, and that topo maps become very important if you're going to do any exploring.
Hope that helps.
topo zone is $1 per map, you create the map. these are the ones that i use in the river guide book that i publish. they are very similar to those generated by the National Geographic topo program.
Kerosene
01-22-2006, 11:43
...I do cartography for a living...I'm jealous! I've loved maps since I was a little kid. I majored in computer science but got a second major in geography since it was so much fun. I considered trying to make a career out of it, but back in the late '70s it seemed like the only jobs you could get were with the government.
gargamel
01-22-2006, 12:08
You might take a look at Delorme Topo 5.0 (http://www.delorme.com/topousa/default.asp). The software covering the east of the USA is available for under 50 $. You can't compare those maps with the printed versions if you want to have small scaled ones (i.e. 1:62.500) which show every detail, but they are good to get an impression of the terrain. Uploading waypoint data (i.e. AT shelters) is pretty simple and some of the features like 3-D view and creating profiles are really fun to play with.
Any particular reason you need maps?
check out the mapdanas over at anti-gravity gear. there are four at $12.95 each.
http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/index.php?cPath=1_4
Off-topic, but I thought I'd answer and keep it brief.
...got a second major in geography since it was so much fun. I considered trying to make a career out of it, but back in the late '70s it seemed like the only jobs you could get were with the government.
Not any more! GIS (Graphical Information Systems) is exploding now. And it's not a fad, either. All sorts of spatial data can now be visualized and manipulated in databases for all sorts of applications that you can imagine.
A good example of how this changes the way things work is public utilities management (environmental management would another one).
If a transformer blew, a pipe broke, or some other utility infrastructure failed in the bad old days (e.g. up until around now) a township or county technician would show up to pinpoint the problem using a map that would be either very old or very outdated. Then you had to determine what it was named if the stamp or whatever was destroyed.
With GIS, the location or name of the structure/utility/geographical feature is not in question, which allows for some interesting management and visualisation options by dropping layers, masking, &c.
Any particular reason you need maps?
To determine lat./long./elev. Oh, sorry, this was a rhetorical question? :D
Don't take my word for it; I'm a newbie here. But Baltimore Jack says the same thing: you'd be crazy not to take maps if you go out in the wilderness. Far be it from me to suggest how other folks should hike.
How else are you gonna know where you really are? You gonna ask the chipmunks which way is true north?
Thanks for all the help, everyone. Lobster, I'd really like to have the maps because I get lost really often (I'm kind of like "Chicken John" in Bill Br****n's book!) Don't get me wrong I'm sure I could navigate the trail just with the blazes and my compass with no problem, but I really enjoy exploring and getting a little lost in the woods sometimes. I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for years if I hike the entire AT and not explore even a little. (to me it seems unsafe to blue blaze with no map at all, am I wrong here?)
Wyclif thanks for all the great links. After clicking on the PDFs available via the NPS website I realized where AntiGravity gets their images for the MapDana. I've already bought the first one in the set of four. I realized that it might serve as a replacement to the Data Book, but it won't work as a map for any blue blazing. The MapDana is a great idea but of it's 27 x 27 inch profile, only 7 1/2 x 19 of it is actually map. I was figuring maybe someday they'd give 3 (side-by-side) full length "strips" of map per bandana, but apparently that kind of detail isn't available from their source (nps).
I was thinking maybe somebody published something as a free (or "at cost") service to hikers, perhaps on that course newspaper paper, you generally see on free newsletters, etc.
General, I will most defintely check out topo zone, that looks like a great service. I'll read through the Thru Hiker's Companion again to check out a couple of spots that look like they'll beg for exploration. (any suggestions?).
PS: just as a final question, do "free" maps exist at all? I mean, sort of as in the way that "free" software exists. I don't mean "doesn't cost anything", I mean "without strict copyright restraints". I've never seen topo or quad maps floating around from state or federal sources, though presumably they would be. --Sorry I don't mean to bore anyone with all these questions, everyone here is just so knowledgeable and helpful, I don't want to miss my chance to finally get a definitive answer to a question I've been wondering for so long.
totempole99
01-22-2006, 16:16
Wyclif mentioned going to a university or research library, I think this is an excellent suggestion. I've looked at other topo maps from my school, not specifically AT, and they had them. You also may want to try your local city/county library. Mine has the maps from Springer through the Smokies.
Well, as BJ one posted, it's irresponsible to hike without maps.
Now, looking around at maps for various maps, such as biking maps and road maps, it's not unusual to pay $5 to $10 for a single map. The 2,174 mile long AT covers several maps, so I'd say that the cost for a set is reasonable. Just the cost of doing a thru-hike.
Jack Tarlin
01-22-2006, 17:40
Peaks is right. They're a bargain. And when you consider they might save someone's life, they're priceless.
Two things to keep in mind: It's pretty easy to find a hiker from last year who doesn't want his anymore and will sell tham at a discount. And if you keep them in good shape, then YOU can, in turn, sell them to someone else at the end of your trip.
There are ways to obtain maps without spending a lot of money. Or you can buy them new, which also benefits the ATC and the local Trail Clubs that produce the maps.
But to go without them soloely because of the expense involved is not wise. If you're gonna cut some corners money-wise, either before your trip or during it, there are better corners to cut.
Well, as BJ one posted, it's irresponsible to hike without maps.
Now, looking around at maps for various maps, such as biking maps and road maps, it's not unusual to pay $5 to $10 for a single map. The 2,174 mile long AT covers several maps, so I'd say that the cost for a set is reasonable. Just the cost of doing a thru-hike.
The more I look around, the more I agree. It looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet on this one.
I did go to our county library and they do have quads that cover our whole state (20 cents per 8x14 photocopy). But nothing for any other state. Even if I locate a reasonable portion of the trail at one location, 20cents per page is gonna do me in anyways! Not to mention I won't know which areas will be useful to have maps printed up for, and which ones aren't worth the while.
I've been convinced! The maps aren't cheap, but there still a great value. I've pretty much given up on finding them used this time of year, but I'll shell out the cash for a new set. Like Jack said, ATC benefits and I should be glad I have the opportunity to contribute (at least that's what I gotta tell myself when handing over 200 bucks for some maps).
Wyclif, I've definitely heard what you said about not needing them. But I get lost pretty easy without them, and I don't want to constantly be a burden to others. Also I don't want to feel chained to the trail, if something else looks like a fun distraction.
Oh yeah... General, you mentioned:
topo zone is $1 per map, you create the map. these are the ones that i use in the river guide book that i publish. they are very similar to those generated by the National Geographic topo program.
Do you have to get special permission to reprint for distribution?
i was talking to my mom the other day about the price of a full set of maps for the AT and she told me that if you're a member of Triple A you can get maps for free and that i could just ask some of my relatives to get the maps for me.
Has anyone tried this for getting maps of the AT?
i was talking to my mom the other day about the price of a full set of maps for the AT and she told me that if you're a member of Triple A you can get maps for free and that i could just ask some of my relatives to get the maps for me.
Has anyone tried this for getting maps of the AT?
One of the benefits of membership in AAA is free road maps. Not a good substitute for trail maps.
Likewise, I wouldn't advise substituting topo maps for AT trail maps. The topo maps are usually out of date. They seldom show the current relocations.
AAA maps are road maps, not trail maps.
Topo maps will show the trail, all of them. They won't be labeled either. You will be scratching your head trying to figure out what is what. Also, the level of detail can be distracting. Topo maps are showing the physical part of the land (trees, swamps, trails, roads, elevations). The trail maps are for the TRAIL.
thanks peaks & rhjanes, i knew that seemed to easy of a solution. [:
ImaStegasaurus
01-24-2006, 11:49
you dont need a map, just bum a gander at your shelter mates'
cause you most likely will not use your map for finding the trail. unless you're blind, in which case what are you gonna do with a map?
god doamn cheapo. jk
hammock engineer
01-24-2006, 12:27
you dont need a map, just bum a gander at your shelter mates'
cause you most likely will not use your map for finding the trail. unless you're blind, in which case what are you gonna do with a map?
god doamn cheapo. jk
I think this ranks up with borrowing other people's gear so you do not have to carry the weight.
If you are going to do this, please do not look in my direction.
irritable_badger
01-29-2006, 14:20
I've done a bit of back country hiking where maps are a requriement (i.e. no trail) but is there really a use for them on the AT? After hiking a bit of the AT around Fontana I think it would be really, really hard to get lost, isn't that what a trail is for anyway? I always carry a compass just in case but maps on a trail... I would really appreciate some more input here as I can think of better uses for my money than maps of a trail but if they really are useful I don't mind spending it. Can anyone give real examples of their use on the AT. Does anyone know (or heard) of anyone who actually used them to get out of a "lost" situation on the AT?
Jack Tarlin
01-29-2006, 14:42
What good is a compass without a map? All a compass can tell you is which WAY you're heading; it won't tell you if you're heading uphill or down; towards civilization or away from it; towards a road or water or away from it, etc. For info like this, you need a map.
There are all sorts of threads here on Whiteblaze where this is debated; do a search under "Maps" and you'll find all sorts of stuff on the subject.
And yes, people do get lost while hiking th A.T.
Here are some other uses of maps, other than being a great help if you're lost:
*They'll show you where roads are, and when you cross a road or dirt track, the map will tell you where it goes.
*They'll show water sources (and where those sources lead, as well)
*They'll show elevation, so you'll know what the terrain is like.
*If you have to get out of the woods in an emergency situation, they can be invaluable. Without maps, you either bushwhack blind, which can create a WORSE emergency, or you can backtrack to the last road....or keep hiking on the Trail til the next one. With maps, you have all sorts of options and will be in a position to make more informed decisions about what to do.
*They will be invaluable if you have to help find someone who's lost or injured; if you have to leave someone behind, the map will give you a good idea of where you are. If you've left the trail for a search-and-rescue, the map will help you find your way back.
*Maps will help you plan your hiking day....the elevation profiles will give a good idea of what each day's hike will be like. Without maps, you've no idea.
These are just a few things maps are good for. To answer your question, yeah, I've twice used maps to help find lost hikers, and once used them to find an alternnate way to evacuate a badly injured hiker. We got her to a hospital HOURS earlier than she would've otherwise got there, and this would not have been possible without having a map to tell us the most efficient way to get her out of the woods.
*There are all sorts of ways to save money; I don't think skipping maps is the way to go.
irritable_badger
01-29-2006, 14:47
Fantastic reply. I just wanted to hear that someone had actually used AT maps in a critical situation. If it happens to one person it is possible for another. Off to order maps.
Jack Tarlin
01-29-2006, 15:09
Thanx for the kind words.
I just thought of another time....a few years back in Maine, there had been incredible rain and all sorts of flooding. Streams were literally unfordable, and on one occasion, we had to bushwhack quite aways til we could find a way to get around an uncrossable stream. Without maps, this would have been flatly impossible, and there would've been an excellent chance we'd have gotten lost as a result. You really DON'T want to get lost in the woods in central Maine! Some people that do are never found.
The thing about emergencies, Badger, is that nobody ever really EXPECTS them. Like, nobody PLANS to get lost or hurt. It just kind of sneaks up on you. That's why when it does, having maps can give you a powerful edge.
Is it possible to thru-hike without 'em? Absolutely, and every year there are plenty of folks who do just that. I simply don't think it's a very good idea. On ALL of my trips, for one thing or another, they've come in really handy.
Incidentally, if you haven't seen it yet, in the "Articles" section of Whiteblaze is a great piece by Weathercarrot on hiking with a budget. If you're looking to save some money and cut some corners on expenses, you might find this article useful.