View Full Version : Doping on the trail?
HelveticHiker
02-05-2017, 08:07
Right now, I'm wondering, what to pack in my first aid kit. What about pain killers?
Do you pack pain killers and if yes, what brand and when do you take it? Only if you are in real pain, or you start taking it even for sore muscles and hurting feet? Or are you taking it even in advance to prevent pain? And is this already considerd doping? Not that WADA cares, but I still wonder...
garlic08
02-05-2017, 08:20
I have a different point of view than many and do not pack pain killers. I never take over-the-counter pain killers if I hurt when I'm hiking. Hiking is optional--if it hurts, I do it differently--slow down, carry less, use poles, wear different shoes--I've done all those during my long hiking career to remain pain- and drug-free. The meds are kind of scary to me.
MuddyWaters
02-05-2017, 08:28
Ibuprofen and a few oxycodone
These arent to alleviate daily aches, they are to help get you to next town if injured. Without having to call someone to rescue you.
High fever
Toothache
Sprained ankle
Stress fracture
Kidney stone
Tendonitis/itb
Etc
Theres people that carry 3 ibuprofen. After walking 40 miles with severe tendonitis /ITB once, and similar with a tibial stress fracture, I carry 8 per day, for every day between longest resupply.
Vitamin I, or in my case vitamin M (Motrin) is my friend. I take 2 at lunch break and 2 at end of day hiking when putting in the miles. I take 81 mg. of aspirin daily and carry a few Tylenol.
Christoph
02-05-2017, 08:41
I carry a few Ibuprofen (which I never used on the trail oddly enough) and Doan's back pain meds for my lower back that likes to slip out of place once in a while (really thankful I never had to use that either).
I carry a dozen or so of Ibuprofen. I use them mostly to alleviate hip pain/muscle soreness so I can sleep at night, otherwise the pain keeps me awake. The few nights I actually needed them, they were a godsend. But, mostly I dont need them after a few days on the trail. I do what garlic does.
I prefer Naproxen over Ibuprofen and carry a 4-5 day supply for the same reasons mentioned by MuddyWaters above. Normally I don't ever use them, but after spraining an ankle in GSMNP and having to hike a very painful 2 days back to the trail head years ago, I carry them now. As for OTC meds, Immodium is probably much more important the analgesics.
LoneStranger
02-05-2017, 09:25
... As for OTC meds, Immodium is probably much more important the analgesics.
I have carried both in my FAK for years and have had to replace them annually as they are rarely used. Seemed sort of silly, but I kept doing it. On a four day December trek in the Whites I discovered that my six year old had dosed me with an intestinal bug before I left home as it kicked in on my third night out. Boy was I glad I'd kept those drugs up to date! Fever and diarrhea are enough trouble during the regular season but can kill you fast in true Winter conditions. Can't imagine how that hike out, let alone the three hour drive home, would have gone if I hadn't had the loperamide along.
colorado_rob
02-05-2017, 09:57
Good for those who can hike relatively pain free without the use of any anti-inflammatory "boost", I envy you. My wife, essentially my same age (60) can. I suffer from some ankle and knee use-issues, and a standard dose around mid-day of Vitamin I makes my afternoons much more enjoyable. I sometimes use Naproxen (single tablet), figuring mixing it up a bit might be better, who knows, I see no difference between the two.
Relatively recently, for a chronic Achilles tendonitis issue, my doc suggest taking a Turmeric supplement and I actually noticed some improvement, surprisingly to me. On this year's AT hike, I'm going to experiment a bit trying to rely only on that, though I doubt that will be sufficient. Maybe I can cut the dose of Vitamin-I using the turmeric.
We also always carry a supply of Imodium, and even a few tablets of both Cipro and Vicodin, which we always carry for big mountaineering expeditions, and out of habit carry for regular hiking. I've seen Cipro "save the day" on such expeditions, and arguably Vicodin "saved me" on a climb one time, I fell and broke a rib up high on a mountain, and might have had to be evac'd. Vicodin enabled me to hike down on my own. My doc trusts me implicitly and scripts out these two drugs when we go on serious stuff.
bigcranky
02-05-2017, 10:01
Good for those who can hike relatively pain free without the use of any anti-inflammatory "boost", I envy you. My wife, essentially my same age (60) can.
Yeah, my wife can hike without any pain or pain meds, I am not so lucky. I generally use Aleve as I only need to worry about two pills a day.
For this sort of medication, long term use really does require a medical consult. A thru hike would be long term.
...My doc trusts me implicitly and scripts out these two drugs when we go on serious stuff. Same here, we just got a script for Doxycycline in case of Lyme or one of my wife's annual ear infections which might arise on the thru-hike. It's gotten to the point where he asks me what I need on the rare occasions I see him.
Celebrix for inflammation everyday Tramadol for pain three times a day every day that's to get up and move on any day. When hiking I add a knee brace and Vit I twice a day and if needed Vicodin 5/300 and if things get real bad I have a Medrol dose pack and some Oxycontin to help me if I need to get off trail. Why? gout, plantar fiscitis, arthritis, and degenerative disc disease, these can make for some painful days on the trail. I have damaged lungs and corneas but they require no meds just some artificial tears and slow uphill climbs.
ScareBear
02-05-2017, 11:20
Ibuprofen, for certain. It is an anti-inflammatory and the trail inflames me. Well, it inflames my connective tissue. Vitamin I is excellent at helping that. It doesn't matter what or how I hike, with the RA/PA going on anything causes inflammation....
Immodium as well. Take two with the first rumblings and one more and that usually stop it...
7.5/325 hydrododone/tylenol for the end of the day pain...
Carisoprodol for back pain...
Believe it or not, that's it. Except for max dose of atorvastatin for FHC...not too bad for an old guy!!!!
Slo-go'en
02-05-2017, 12:24
I use plain old aspirin. I find taking it early in the day before I start to hurt is better then later in the day after I start to hurt. By taking it early, I don't hurt as much later. I typically use it most early in the hike then tapper off to little or none later on after I get back into shape after sitting around for most of the winter.
Of course, us older hikers then to use the pain killers a bit more then the youngsters and middle aged hikers.
HelveticHiker
02-05-2017, 13:08
Wow, great, thank you very much for all you answers, your advices and some quite impressive medical experiences. I'm not planing on taking pain killers regularly but I will now definitly pack some "Vitamin I" (funny :), I've never heard the expression so far...) as some of you wrote, it can help you make it through the day when the pain kicks in - or of course in case of injury.
Ibuprofen is common, so common of an abused trail drug that some joking refer to it as a vitamin, a needed substance.
I have a different point of view than many and do not pack pain killers. I never take over-the-counter pain killers if I hurt when I'm hiking. Hiking is optional--if it hurts, I do it differently--slow down, carry less, use poles, wear different shoes--I've done all those during my long hiking career to remain pain- and drug-free. The meds are kind of scary to me.
This^^^. Although I will include some naproxen(Alleve) in a FAK which I don't abuse - use regularly as a needed relied upon drug.
Inflammation is the source of many types of pain. Anti inflammatory diets and lifestyle choices to address causes is the approach I'd rather take than habitually masking symptoms with drugs.
colorado_rob
02-05-2017, 15:20
This^^^. Although I will include some naproxen(Alleve) in a FAK which I don't abuse - use regularly as a needed relied upon drug.
Inflammation is the source of many types of pain. Anti inflammatory diets and lifestyle choices to address causes is the approach I'd rather take than habitually masking symptoms with drugs.
Ibuprofen doesn't just mask inflammation, it reduces it. Again, good for you to those that can hike long distance without it, some of us are not that fortunate. I've been on anti inflammatory diet for years, noticing no difference, but it's a healthier diet anyway, so what the heck. Except beer. Maybe quit that??? Nah, na-ga-da !
Micro beers are a key component to the anti inflammatory diet. They keep me from getting inflamed at my family. :D
Odd Man Out
02-05-2017, 15:43
I also do not take pain killers as a rule. I take baby Aspirin for my heart. I have tried pain killers at bed time if the aches are keeping me from sleeping, but I can't say they helped. Never v used during the day.
Aside of some alc for the fun of it, I never put any drug into my body, unless I'm in bed really ill.
I'm trying to get some local herbs that I can use to ease some smaller medical issues, with some success.
There is a old believing, that for every issue you might develope, the cure is right there, you just have to look carefully.
One evening while collecting firewood a massive thorn poked deep into my ball of thumb and gave me quite some pain.
Durig the afternoon I happened to have picked some herbs I knew would give me a delicious tea (distant relative of Camomilla it was), so I applied a good bunch of to this sore spot, fixing it with some tape.
Soon the pain was gone and next day a huge blister full of pus had developed, from which the thorn slipped out on slight pressure.
I'm always eager to learn more about herbs and the use of.
ScareBear
02-05-2017, 16:18
This^^^. Although I will include some naproxen(Alleve) in a FAK which I don't abuse - use regularly as a needed relied upon drug.
Inflammation is the source of many types of pain. Anti inflammatory diets and lifestyle choices to address causes is the approach I'd rather take than habitually masking symptoms with drugs.
Again with the diet and lifestyle. Dude, get real. My Rheumatoid Arthritis/Psoriatic Arthritis is an autoimmune disease that is the root cause of my inflammation. DISEASE. Not a lifestyle choice. Not a diet choice. And, I didn't bring it on myself by a poor diet or poor lifestyle choices in my past. But, thanks for once again showing your lack of empathy and an understanding of the human condition. No, not everyone will be all better again by eating right and not drinking alcohol...FFS!!!
Masking symptoms...yeah...when you cannot treat or cure the underlying disease what the FREAK else do you propose to do? Sit and suffer in your all-natural dogma? Good grief....
evyck da fleet
02-06-2017, 08:25
I think I have a few packets of ibuprofen in my first aid kit. They are probably expired. I think I took one once a few days after being stung by a bee on the JMT. Usually my response to pain is rest. A day or two off in town and/ or low mileage is my preference to masking the pain. I've taken up to four days in a row off to get better. But I'm younger than most of the people on here listing their daily dosage so maybe age and health play a factor.
jjozgrunt
02-06-2017, 09:07
I wanted to check out this thread as I thought it was either about what people use and where to buy make me happy drugs, or to detail some funny stories about dopes you'd met on the trail. But no, it's about neither it's an actual real discussion on pain killers. Oh and a healthy lifestyle, uuughhh!
My 2 bobs worth. Vitamin I in case you get a bit of swelling with pain, something stronger if you really get injured and multiple beers in town to mask any injuries or pain. The beers also help with shyness, masks insecurities and slows down the fast hikers the next day. Warning!!! Excessive beer can also lead to being obnoxious, serious head pain, nausea and technicolor yawns.
I also take a multi vitamin every day to keep the wife happy, not really required if you drink beer (a steak sandwich in every pot).
colorado_rob
02-06-2017, 09:33
Again with the diet and lifestyle. Dude, get real. My Rheumatoid Arthritis/Psoriatic Arthritis is an autoimmune disease that is the root cause of my inflammation. DISEASE. Not a lifestyle choice. Not a diet choice. And, I didn't bring it on myself by a poor diet or poor lifestyle choices in my past. But, thanks for once again showing your lack of empathy and an understanding of the human condition. No, not everyone will be all better again by eating right and not drinking alcohol...FFS!!!
Masking symptoms...yeah...when you cannot treat or cure the underlying disease what the FREAK else do you propose to do? Sit and suffer in your all-natural dogma? Good grief....I somewhat feel your pain Scarebear, having had a lot of active and debilitating RA in my own family, and in fact having the markers in my own blood, but I don't find Dogwoods post quite that obnoxious, I see it more of a post about how diet and other conscious choices can help a bit with on-trail aches and pains, though as I said below, he is wrong about the masking thing.
Looking back since I've tried to follow an anti-inflammatory diet, I do believe this does help a bit. My trouble is following such a diet while on the trail vs. "real life" where it is easier. This thread has prompted me to try to pre-think this a bit more with our upcoming AT hike repeat, meaning trying to eat a bit better this time.
Still, there is no way I'll enjoy long distance hiking these days without modest Ibuprofen (or Naproxen) intake.
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with anyone on here, but I seriously doubt if hardly anyone on WB who promotes complete non-drug solutions to pain has anywhere near the total miles I have on my ankles/knees. I've been continually hiking and backpacking (and climbing mountains) since I was about 10, 50 years ago, but much more significantly, I ran seriously for about 35 years (age 15-50), and very seriously, like 100+ miles a week in training for a good part of that. This amount of running wears out body parts for most.
Traffic Jam
02-06-2017, 09:53
It's good to be prepared. Once, I forgot to pack anything and had a flare-up of an old groin injury...limped with every step. But I had brought Snacktime's trail magic bag and discovered it had Ibuprofen. It saved my hike.
I carry a stronger med as well for the same reason as muddy waters...so I can get myself off the trail if needed.
Starchild
02-06-2017, 10:21
My AT thru hiking first aid kit, which was not a kit in one place, but first aid items were:
1 About 10 or so ibuprofen, rarely took them
2 Vaseline for friction reduction (blisters/chafing), also 'chap stick' use and minor cuts/scrapes, also fire accelerant if needed which I didn't.
3 Duct tape, used as bandage particularly on feet for blisters, once for major chaffing beyond what vaseline could do.
4 tweezers for tick removal but never needed this
5 use of some plants some which I carried when I found them, such as jewel weed (touch me not) for minor skin irritation (also use it as a soap for bathing/cleaning), also moss for stopping bleeding/ compression, pine sap as antibacterial and some others.
6 Bandana used as compression to relieve shin splints, later got a bandage that I wrapped around that spot.
7 Ginger tablets and also Ginger root, natural anti-inflamatory, used this for the first 200-300 miles till I didn't need it anymore.
Tipi Walter
02-06-2017, 10:36
If I took meds for every ache and pain I had while out backpacking I'd look like those before and after meth guys on google. I may take a single ibuprofen once every 3 years for whatever reason. I do carry stronger stuff (it's a 5 year old prescription---probably useless) in case I develop a severe toothache (known to happen) or fall and snap my arm or get mauled by a chipmunk---otherwise all my skeletal and muscular and tendons and ligament pains (easy to get with a 90 lb pack) come and go and all have up to this time been "walked out".
Meaning---Sure my ankle hurts, or my knee is throbbing, or my right calf is seriously fubared CAN'T GO ON!!! MUST POP A PILL!!! Naw, I just keep moving and walk it out and dangit in a couple days the pain is gone. Reminds me of a jingle: Brush your teeth with sani-flush, you don't even need a brush. All you do is wipe it on, one two three your teeth are gone. Ha ha ha.
Traffic Jam
02-06-2017, 10:51
If I took meds for every ache and pain I had while out backpacking I'd look like those before and after meth guys on google. I may take a single ibuprofen once every 3 years for whatever reason. I do carry stronger stuff (it's a 5 year old prescription---probably useless) in case I develop a severe toothache (known to happen) or fall and snap my arm or get mauled by a chipmunk---otherwise all my skeletal and muscular and tendons and ligament pains (easy to get with a 90 lb pack) come and go and all have up to this time been "walked out".
Meaning---Sure my ankle hurts, or my knee is throbbing, or my right calf is seriously fubared CAN'T GO ON!!! MUST POP A PILL!!! Naw, I just keep moving and walk it out and dangit in a couple days the pain is gone. Reminds me of a jingle: Brush your teeth with sani-flush, you don't even need a brush. All you do is wipe it on, one two three your teeth are gone. Ha ha ha.
yeah, but some people don't have the luxury of time that you do. Three days of pain for those who only get three days on the trail really sucks.
Have you ever had a grade 3 muscle tear? We're not talking average soreness. FWIW, I gave birth more than once without pain medicine. I ain't a wimp. :)
4eyedbuzzard
02-06-2017, 10:51
... I do carry stronger stuff (it's a 5 year old prescription---probably useless) in case I develop a severe toothache (known to happen) or fall and snap my arm or get mauled by a chipmunk---otherwise all my skeletal and muscular and tendons and ligament pains (easy to get with a 90 lb pack) come and go and all have up to this time been "walked out"...That oxy/hydro/codeine is probably still just fine. Now, the aspirin on the other hand... Read this article http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/08/news/la-heb-expired-drugs-still-work-study-20121008
Like it or not, ignore it if we will, our choices have consequences. Sowing and reaping, cause and effect...
Everything doesn't just fall out of the sky on us, to us. We have a hand in what we experience.
Traffic Jam
02-06-2017, 13:28
Like it or not, ignore it if we will, our choices have consequences. Sowing and reaping, cause and effect...
Everything doesn't just fall out of the sky on us, to us. We have a hand in what we experience.
That is narrow minded. Health problems aren't always caused by poor choices.
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123113-Doping-on-the-trail/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dogwood https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123113-Doping-on-the-trail/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123113-Doping-on-the-trail/showthread.php?p=2125455#post2125455)
Like it or not, ignore it if we will, our choices have consequences. Sowing and reaping, cause and effect...
Everything doesn't just fall out of the sky on us, to us. We have a hand in what we experience.
That is narrow minded. Health problems aren't always caused by poor choices.
We have a hand in how and what we experience in life. Our behavior has consequences proactively and going forward. Diet and lifestyle decisions play a key component role in our well being. Worldwide well trained well educated health care practitioners offer this "narrow minded" advice to patients. NEVER said they are the ONLY components of our well being which might be what's being mistakenly assumed!
Even genetics don't fully determine our destiny. Genetic determinism or biological determinism dogma which is a belief an idea a theory as an absolute is a flawed outdated concept that has been scientifically advanced although the public largely still holds onto this concept as an absolute. What we do can determine how genes, to some extent, are expressed.
"For so many years we believed that DNA was responsible not only for our physicalcharacteristics, but for our emotions and behaviors, as well. This concept allows for a specific“predestination”, and people blamed everything that ever happened to them on their geneticinheritance, completely disregarding the role of the environment, the power of their ownmind and the responsibility that they have regarding their own state of health, both physicaland mental. There are new basic concepts of biology ...."
"Of course there are disorders, such as Huntington chorea or Cystic fibrosis that are due to afaulty gene. However, single gene disorders affect less than 2% of the population. Diabetes,High blood pressure and cancer, are they the result of our “genetic fate” only? Or can we becontributing something to bring them closer? It seems more and more appropriate to say thatthese diseases are not the result of a single gene, but of complex interactions among multiplegenes and environmental factors. "
http://www.averyswellness.ca/BIE%20History%20and%20Research%20-%20Feb3%202012.pdf
DuneElliot
02-06-2017, 14:59
I carry a little bag of Ibuprofen for an occasional headache or for any occasion where it might be the difference between hiking out or needing rescue. I can't take strong pain meds (make me puke) nor Aleve (sodium allergy). I also carrry imodium, and I'll take a couple of benedryl or Nyquil for the first couple of nights out to help me sleep. I'll also carry some baby aspirin for my dogs.
I've never taken meds for much else in my life so don't take it on the trail. I can generally deal with pain pretty well, and if the pain becomes too much then I should be off the trail.
Traffic Jam
02-06-2017, 15:06
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123113-Doping-on-the-trail/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dogwood https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123113-Doping-on-the-trail/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/123113-Doping-on-the-trail/showthread.php?p=2125455#post2125455)
Like it or not, ignore it if we will, our choices have consequences. Sowing and reaping, cause and effect...
Everything doesn't just fall out of the sky on us, to us. We have a hand in what we experience.
That is narrow minded. Health problems aren't always caused by poor choices.
We have a hand in how and what we experience in life. Our behavior has consequences proactively and going forward. Diet and lifestyle decisions play a key component role in our well being. Worldwide well trained well educated health care practitioners offer this "narrow minded" advice to patients. NEVER said they are the ONLY components of our well being which might be what's being mistakenly assumed!
Even genetics don't fully determine our destiny. Genetic determinism or biological determinism dogma which is a belief an idea a theory as an absolute is a flawed outdated concept that has been scientifically advanced although the public largely still holds onto this concept as an absolute. What we do can determine how genes, to some extent, are expressed.
"For so many years we believed that DNA was responsible not only for our physicalcharacteristics, but for our emotions and behaviors, as well. This concept allows for a specific“predestination”, and people blamed everything that ever happened to them on their geneticinheritance, completely disregarding the role of the environment, the power of their ownmind and the responsibility that they have regarding their own state of health, both physicaland mental. There are new basic concepts of biology ...."
"Of course there are disorders, such as Huntington chorea or Cystic fibrosis that are due to afaulty gene. However, single gene disorders affect less than 2% of the population. Diabetes,High blood pressure and cancer, are they the result of our “genetic fate” only? Or can we becontributing something to bring them closer? It seems more and more appropriate to say thatthese diseases are not the result of a single gene, but of complex interactions among multiplegenes and environmental factors. "
http://www.averyswellness.ca/BIE%20History%20and%20Research%20-%20Feb3%202012.pdf
Of course genetics are not absolutes, but neither is lifestyle. Telling people with unavoidable medical conditions to suck it up, that they reap what they sow, is ridiculous.
ScareBear
02-06-2017, 15:07
Like it or not, ignore it if we will, our choices have consequences. Sowing and reaping, cause and effect...
Everything doesn't just fall out of the sky on us, to us. We have a hand in what we experience.
Of, FFS. And sometimes our DNA has the ONLY hand in what we experience, when it comes to diseases. Now your dogma is offensive. You are victim blaming. Somehow, I did something to cause the FHC? I guess I did. I was born. You see, dogma-dude, FHC is a inherited GENETIC disorder. So, how am I going to live without statins? All natural? Yeah. Right. The current research shows that RA/PA is likely inherited as well. Care to educate me as to how I brought either malady upon myself, other than by being born?
Oh....wait...so my dad sowed and I reaped the benefit and that is the cause and effect? Is that how it works in Dogma-ville?
colorado_rob
02-06-2017, 15:20
Oh....wait...so my dad sowed and I reaped the benefit and that is the cause and effect? Is that how it works in Dogma-ville? Face it SB, DW is being a total butthead on this thread, why argue with him/(her?) any further? In the immortal word of Robert A. Heinlein: "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig".
Yes there are components - various factors - that contribute to well being. Absolutely! :D I'm NOT saying just suck it up. Just the contrary. I'm saying DO NOT just throw up your hands ignoring your actions...at any stage. There's action, accountability, and responsibility for our own well being...our decisions....at any stage. There's a often repeated theme here that one shouldn't be personally responsible for the life they experience or that others experience as a result. Did you miss this part, "We have a hand in how and what we experience in life. Our behavior has consequences proactively and going forward? NEVER said they(diet and lifestyle!!!) are the ONLY(absolute) components of our well being which might be what's being mistakenly assumed!"
...And sometimes our DNA has the ONLY hand in what we experience, when it comes to diseases...
Must have not read what's in my post which happens regularly. I'll requite again since you missed it the first time.
"Of course there are disorders, such as Huntington chorea or Cystic fibrosis that are due to faulty gene. However, single gene disorders affect less than 2% of the population. Diabetes,High blood pressure and cancer, are they the result of our “genetic fate” only? Or can we becontributing something to bring them closer? It seems more and more appropriate to say thatthese diseases are not the result of a single gene, but of complex interactions among multiplegenes and environmental factors.
Don't confuse dogma with scientific advancement.
Not sorry if personal accountability...at whatever stage in ones existence... for what one experiences offends you as it is you who are taking offense not intended.
SkeeterPee
02-06-2017, 15:55
I carry Tylenol, Ibuprofen and Nabumetone. The last I have not needed, but I occasionally through my back out and those are a long acting nsaid (prescription) that take some of the pain away so I can at least sleep.
Tipi Walter
02-06-2017, 16:29
Face it SB, DW is being a total butthead on this thread, why argue with him/(her?) any further? In the immortal word of Robert A. Heinlein: "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig".
Reminds me of the advice my Dad gave me in high school: "Look, you're wasting your life with too much wine, women and song." So I quit singing.
rocketsocks
02-06-2017, 16:49
Better hiking through pharmacology...if I didn't dope I'd never be able to don a pack.
Another Kevin
02-07-2017, 00:36
What pills are in my medical kit? I carry more stuff than is typical, because I also wind up helping out other people. I'm a pretty fair jackleg medic.
200 mg ibuprofen tablets - enough that I can go a couple of days at the prescription dose of 600 mg qid. I've only once or twice actually dosed that level on the trail, and that was for serious injury (serious as in go from the trailhead to the ER - but I needed to get to the trailhead!) Normally, my rule is, if I need it to sleep, I go ahead. If I need it to hike, I need to adjust my style, or get off the trail and heal up.
About 8 7.5/325 hydrocodone/acetaminophen tablets to use in case of severe pain. I've never needed them Out There, but I'm sure I will someday.
A five-day course of Cipro - against the possibility of shigellosis or some other bacterial dysentery. I carry these only on long roadless sections. I've only ever once started it, after treating a foot wound in conditions where I knew I'd be getting my feet wet repeatedly in filthy water.
Bismuth subsalicylate tablets, 262 mg - again against the possibility of severe diarrhoea. Again, I carry these only on long roadless sections. NOT TO BE TAKEN WITH NSAIDS, ESPECIALLY ASPIRIN.
20 mg famotidine tablets - two per day. Even in town I take one with supper, but when I'm carrying a heavy pack and eating trail food, I may need another in the morning. (I've had chronic gastritis for about twenty years, a surgical complication, and simply need medication to tame it.)
25 mg diphenhydramine HCl - a few, to be taken (25-50 mg q6-8hr) in case of allergic reactions, as an antinauseal, or as a sleeping pill. The famotidine potentiates it, so I dose them carefully if taking them together. (On the other hand, if someone is having asthma or an anaphylactoid reaction, I'll hit it with all I've got - 50 mg of diphenhydramine and 20 mg of famotidine q6hr, plus epinephrine if the patient carries it.)
2 mg loperamide - 4 tablets. Taken only as a last resort - for instance, if I need to ride on a bus or something when suffering from diarrhoea. Otherwise, "better out than in."
I probably ought to carry the salts for oral rehydration therapy, and zinc gluconate, but I really begrudge the weight, since it's about an ounce per litre and several litres per day during a GI episode. I almost always have rice in my food bag, so I could at least brew up a couple of litres of rice water if I have to.
To continue with topical meds:
The smallest tube I can find of triple-antibiotic ointment.
The smallest tube I can find of cyanoacrylate cement. (Superglue often works better than sutures! Also for gear repairs.)
An old-school film can or little pill bottle with some Boudreaux Butt Paste. (Very strong zinc oxide ointment - for monkey butt, but could also be used to make an emergency tooth filling)
A tube of Gurney Goo (on me, it works better than Body Glide).
On the long roadless sections, a tiny vial of clove oil (Eugenol) - for topical anaesthesia while debriding an injury or to make zinc oxide eugenol for a temporary tooth filling.
With all the pills in little plastic envelopes, wrapped up in a pill bottle, it's not a big package at all. That, plus my gauze pads, Band-Aids and Ace wrap, all fit in a stuff sack a little smaller than a soda can. Also in that sack are a few alcohol swabs (which seem to get used mostly for cleaning eyeglasses), a tick key, a paperclip (I have had to burn through a nail on the trail to relieve pressure from bleeding in the nail bed), a card with duct tape wrapped on it and a needle taped inside a fold, a couple of adhesive patches for my sleeping pad, a couple of zip ties, the spare batteries for my headlamp, and in season, a couple of screws, nuts and washers in case my snowshoes lose a rivet.
That little kit, plus stuff from the rest of my pack (such as my Leatherman tool), equip me to do quite a lot of emergency gear repairs or field medicine.
I'm always eager to hear how I might improve my preparedness.
gracebowen
02-07-2017, 11:15
Another kevin if you have a dollar store near you many first aid kits have tiny packets of antibiotic. The ER even gave me a few packets once.
Traffic Jam
02-08-2017, 18:58
Yes there are components - various factors - that contribute to well being. Absolutely! :D I'm NOT saying just suck it up. Just the contrary. I'm saying DO NOT just throw up your hands ignoring your actions...at any stage. There's action, accountability, and responsibility for our own well being...our decisions....at any stage. There's a often repeated theme here that one shouldn't be personally responsible for the life they experience or that others experience as a result. Did you miss this part, "We have a hand in how and what we experience in life. Our behavior has consequences proactively and going forward? NEVER said they(diet and lifestyle!!!) are the ONLY(absolute) components of our well being which might be what's being mistakenly assumed!"
Gotcha and totally agree. :)
Again with the diet and lifestyle. Dude, get real. My Rheumatoid Arthritis/Psoriatic Arthritis is an autoimmune disease that is the root cause of my inflammation. DISEASE. Not a lifestyle choice. Not a diet choice. And, I didn't bring it on myself by a poor diet or poor lifestyle choices in my past. But, thanks for once again showing your lack of empathy and an understanding of the human condition. No, not everyone will be all better again by eating right and not drinking alcohol...FFS!!!
Masking symptoms...yeah...when you cannot treat or cure the underlying disease what the FREAK else do you propose to do? Sit and suffer in your all-natural dogma? Good grief....
Don't confuse my ability to understand your condition and feelings, to be able to see things from your perspective, being empathetic, with disagreeing with or questioning them. Nor should anyone else.
Diseases often, most often, have lifestyle causational components. Even IF you disagree with this :confused:, which would be disagreeing with medical science, what you experience going forward can, and likely will, be affected by diet and lifestyle choices. This can be likened to a form of treatment. Yes or No?
PLEASE consider where this belief comes from: "Masking symptoms...yeah...when you cannot treat or cure the underlying disease - (autoimmune disease) what the FREAK else do you propose to do?" This is a GREAT question but with profound assumptions! That belief about autoimmune disease not being able to be treated or reversed or possibly cured not all in medicine adhere! That's a conventional medicine scientific dogmatic approach. Change the assumptions the quality of the answers change. PLEASE consider what IF this disease could be treated or reversed. You haven't been exposed to this approach though because of the medical educational approach your health care practitioners learned was something different.
If you want to consider other medicinal system approaches, observations, results, and beliefs I urge you to read through these not overly lengthy articles from MDs:
http://www.amymyersmd.com/2016/03/conventional-medicine-autoimmune/
http://drhyman.com/blog/2010/07/30/how-to-stop-attacking-yourself-9-steps-to-heal-autoimmune-disease/
I've personally seen the positive results in two family members once suffering from autoimmune disease. My father, who suffered for years with diagnosed Rheumatoid arthritis caused by an autoimmune disorder was one of them. Both, after gaining some additional different opinions from Integrative Medicinal Practitioners, MD's trained to treat the WHOLE PERSON, taking into advice a wider spectrum of medical approaches, while not ignoring the best of western medicine, have led symptom and medication free lives for many yrs. My cousin has been off immune system depressing pharmaceutical meds(drugs!) for more than 10 yrs and my father, who was said by some MDs would always have Rheumatoid Arthritis, no longer is diagnosed with it.
I sincerely hope you read and at least consider this information in context.
Wish you well.
StubbleJumper
02-08-2017, 21:18
+1 for Immodium. If you find yourself 10 or 15 miles from the nearest road crossing and you get the *****s, you will be happy to have spent 1 or 2 grams of weight on Immodium. I have carried it for years and never needed it. But nearly every year in town, I get the *****s at some point. When I am blowing air on the throne, I give thanks that it's not happening on a beautiful thu-hike.
I too sometimes take ibuprophin, but much less than I used to.
Not only does it contribute to heart attacks and a-fib (Basic & Clinical Pharmacology & Toxicology, online, April 25, 2014; ttp://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d3450.long) but it also can "counteract the heart-healthy effects of low-dose aspirin" (Thrombosis and Haemostasis, online, Dec. 13, 2012). That's a double hit.
(info from Peoplespharmacy.com)
I took lots of ibuprofin at times. Not sure why folks are so opposed to it. I fell a few times and got a bit swollen. Vitamin I made everything ok. Never got off the trail. Some things that will slow you down in real life can't slow you down on the trail.
I also took a few Perkocets with me from a surgery. I figured that there could be a scenario where I would be glad to have them. Well, I fell in the 100M. A nice soft fall. When I put my hand out to push myself up I placed it on a small branch which then flipped up and hit me in the eye. That night the pain was unbearable. Took a perk and don't regret having them. Was fine by the time I got to Katahdin. If do another long distance hike you can bet I'll have a few more of these with me.
TX Aggie
03-11-2017, 20:30
It's not always a just matter of pain. Ibuprofen is great at combating general inflammation. A little inflammation is fine, is a trigger to start the healing process. But extended inflammation hinders healing.
Keep some ibuprofen on hand even for small aches that last more than 2-3 days.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TexasBob
03-12-2017, 11:42
Here are the drugs I carry on the trail:
15 Ibuprofen 200mg - I take one or two each night
4 Immodium
4 Benedryl
2 zantac
vaseline sealed in a drinking straw - use for skin irritation, burns etc. or as a fire starter
1 0.9g antibiotic ointment packet
1 0.9g hydrocortisone packet
If you don't like drugs, don't take them. If someone believes in alternative medicine, don't argue with them because you won't change their mind. It is a belief system that involves more than science. Invite them to go hiking instead and be friends who agree to disagree.
TX Aggie
03-12-2017, 14:08
If you don't like drugs, don't take them. If someone believes in alternative medicine, don't argue with them because you won't change their mind. It is a believe system that involves more than science. Invite them to go hiking instead and be friends who agree to disagree.
+1 hike your hike, and enjoy with others.
Poor digestion/digestive disorders(linked to diets high in fatty foods -lifestyle choices), poor diet(sugar, trans fats - lifestyle choices), and insulin resistance(significantly correlated with obesity in Type 2/adult onset Diabetics - highly correlated with lifestyle choices) are leading causes of inflammation. All are rampant issues in the west/U.S.
Many pharmaceutical drugs are marketed specifically to people who will not change their behavior. Easier to take a magic bullet pill is often the preferred mindset.
I don't expect many fan points for pointing this out.
Not pushing alternative medicine. All science - all medicine - is inextricably intertwined with belief systems. But not pushing drugs to mask symptoms, which inflammation commonly is, either. Would certainly think it reasonable to address causes of inflammation rather than just mask ongoing symptoms when it could be in one's power to do so.
http://health.facty.com/ailments/inflammation/10-causes-of-inflammation/
SufiLodge
03-15-2017, 18:18
Right now, I'm wondering, what to pack in my first aid kit. What about pain killers?
Do you pack pain killers and if yes, what brand and when do you take it? Only if you are in real pain, or you start taking it even for sore muscles and hurting feet? Or are you taking it even in advance to prevent pain? And is this already considerd doping? Not that WADA cares, but I still wonder...
Hey what is good enough for the Olympian Michael Phelps should be good enough for hikers. We are offering expert cupping therapy along the trail in Troutdale Virginia. It cleans the body of dead blood cells and toxins and provides a huge boost of energy by oxygenating the entire body. Sort of like flushing your cars radiator. Special discounts for hikers and we also provide a sliding scale. Give it a try, you will not be sorry. http://www.TraditionalCupping.com
ScareBear
03-15-2017, 18:21
Hey what is good enough for the Olympian Michael Phelps should be good enough for hikers. We are offering expert cupping therapy along the trail in Troutdale Virginia. It cleans the body of dead blood cells and toxins and provides a huge boost of energy by oxygenating the entire body. Sort of like flushing your cars radiator. Special discounts for hikers and we also provide a sliding scale. Give it a try, you will not be sorry. http://www.TraditionalCupping.com
Do you need a license to cup?
SufiLodge
03-15-2017, 18:23
Very true. Most natural medicines take a bit longer but do not come with the many adverse side effects that molecularity altered pharma drugs have. They rob shamans and medicine men of their knowledge and then alter the drugs to be able to profit off of them.
SufiLodge
03-15-2017, 18:27
Similar to a Jewish Mohel in circumcision procedure who can walk into any hospital and effectively perform a surgery on an infant. We also use a religious exemption and adhere to much higher standards. All healing comes from God Almighty and the cleaner a person is the better conduit for that healing can take place. This is something forgotten in the medical field with a total emphasis on intelect and nothing on spiritual purity. More and more studies are proving the effects our negative and positive energy has on others. I am the leading expert in this field and have an Ijaaz to both practice and teach. A much higher standard than most of these frauds learning off the Internet and claiming an expertise.
SufiLodge
03-15-2017, 18:31
Similar to a Jewish Mohel in a circumcision procedure - who can walk into any hospital and effectively perform a surgery on an infant. We also use a religious exemption and adhere to much higher standards than certification provides. All healing comes from God Almighty and the cleaner a person is the better conduit for that healing can take place. This is something forgotten in the medical field with a total emphasis on intellect and nothing on spiritual purity. More and more studies are proving the effects our negative and positive energy has on others. I am the leading expert in this field and have an Ijaaza to both practice and teach. A much higher standard than most of these frauds learning off the Internet and claiming an expertise. We really are the best and are focused on serving others. It is a miracle cure for many illnesses simply allowing the body to be clean and heal itself.
38582
SufiLodge
03-15-2017, 18:40
Much of this can be attributed to the Glysophates in wheat and other staples. Believe it or not the elite wish to eliminate 90% of the population now and are using several means to cull the populations. Most desease today is in fact intentional. They have their robots now, they no longer need slaves.
ScareBear
03-15-2017, 19:13
Ooooooooh...a global elite conspiracy theorist.
Yeah, I am just dying to stay somewhere and be treated by someone who believes the "elite" are out to cull the populations and eliminate 90 percent of the population from the face of this Earth....
I, and many others, look forward to trusting our safety and health to somebody who holds such...paranoid delusions...
Not a good business model, shaman dude.....
LongBlaze2019
03-15-2017, 19:18
Much of this can be attributed to the Glysophates in wheat and other staples. Believe it or not the elite wish to eliminate 90% of the population now and are using several means to cull the populations. Most desease today is in fact intentional. They have their robots now, they no longer need slaves.
[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]
I needed a good laugh! Thanks!
Odd Man Out
03-15-2017, 20:03
Better add some aluminum foil to my medicine kit so I can build a Faraday cage cap to protect myself from microwave brain scanners.
Tuckahoe
03-15-2017, 21:00
Much of this can be attributed to the Glysophates in wheat and other staples. Believe it or not the elite wish to eliminate 90% of the population now and are using several means to cull the populations. Most desease today is in fact intentional. They have their robots now, they no longer need slaves.
That's some grade "A" *** right there.
SufiLodge, are you intentionally trying to stir up the tribe? Do you know what can of worms and ridicule you are opening yourself up to?
rocketsocks
03-15-2017, 21:23
That's some grade "A" *** right there. :D now that's, funny!
rocketsocks
03-15-2017, 21:25
SufiLodge, are you intentionally trying to stir up the tribe? Do you know what can of worms and ridicule you are opening yourself up to?Right! Sounds like somthin' I'd say. :D
MuddyWaters
03-15-2017, 21:29
Someones doping right now.....
Much of this can be attributed to the Glysophates in wheat and other staples. Believe it or not the elite wish to eliminate 90% of the population now and are using several means to cull the populations. Most desease today is in fact intentional. They have their robots now, they no longer need slaves.
Ill have some of what he's having please.
StubbleJumper
03-16-2017, 17:17
Much of this can be attributed to the Glysophates in wheat and other staples. Believe it or not the elite wish to eliminate 90% of the population now and are using several means to cull the populations. Most desease today is in fact intentional. They have their robots now, they no longer need slaves.
Ignoring how generally crazy your statement is, you could at least adhere to the facts. Glyphosate is an excellent non-selective herbicide, but it is not used on wheat. It is used on soybeans, canola and corn. Beyond correcting that factual error, the rest of what you wrote is too crazy to merit any comment.
DownEaster
03-16-2017, 17:37
I'll attempt to return to topic.
I carry daily multivitamin/multimineral pills, in an attempt to help make up for poor diet.
I've usually got some mint Tums or Rolaids, consumed more as a calcium supplement/breath mint combo because I know there will be a new roll in my next resupply. These are good for occasional indigestion, too.
Yes, I carry a supply of Vitamin I. That's to reduce inflammation and keep my abused body parts from doing further damage to themselves. I'd prefer an ice pack for my knees/ankles/whatever, but most times ibuprofen is all I have available.
I take one regular strength aspirin every other day. That was the dosage in the original study which showed long-term heart health benefits, so I know it's effective. I see no reason to pay 3x as much per tablet for 1/3 the dose to take a pill daily. That supply means I've got extra NSAID pills on hand in an emergency situation.
I carry Imodium also, but have never needed it (yet). However, avoiding dehydration while you're also sweating profusely is worth the tiny weight of precaution.
I react strongly to urushiol (poison ivy), and don't always see the trees (bushes) for admiring the forest, so I carry some diphenhydramine (generic Benadryl) capsules. Also a tube of 1% cortisone cream.
Finally, I carry a few extra-strength acetaminophen tablets. I find that one of these is generally the right answer to the occasional headache, which would otherwise distract me from things like watching my footing. The added bonus is that acetaminophen can be combined with NSAIDs in the case of severe pain (such as from a broken bone). I haven't ever needed to take such a drug combo on the trail (or off), but it's good to be prepared.
LongBlaze2019
03-16-2017, 21:12
I'll attempt to return to topic.
I carry daily multivitamin/multimineral pills, in an attempt to help make up for poor diet.
I've usually got some mint Tums or Rolaids, consumed more as a calcium supplement/breath mint combo because I know there will be a new roll in my next resupply. These are good for occasional indigestion, too.
Yes, I carry a supply of Vitamin I. That's to reduce inflammation and keep my abused body parts from doing further damage to themselves. I'd prefer an ice pack for my knees/ankles/whatever, but most times ibuprofen is all I have available.
I take one regular strength aspirin every other day. That was the dosage in the original study which showed long-term heart health benefits, so I know it's effective. I see no reason to pay 3x as much per tablet for 1/3 the dose to take a pill daily. That supply means I've got extra NSAID pills on hand in an emergency situation.
I carry Imodium also, but have never needed it (yet). However, avoiding dehydration while you're also sweating profusely is worth the tiny weight of precaution.
I react strongly to urushiol (poison ivy), and don't always see the trees (bushes) for admiring the forest, so I carry some diphenhydramine (generic Benadryl) capsules. Also a tube of 1% cortisone cream.
Finally, I carry a few extra-strength acetaminophen tablets. I find that one of these is generally the right answer to the occasional headache, which would otherwise distract me from things like watching my footing. The added bonus is that acetaminophen can be combined with NSAIDs in the case of severe pain (such as from a broken bone). I haven't ever needed to take such a drug combo on the trail (or off), but it's good to be prepared.
Just when I get my tinfoil hat done we get back on topic.
Ignoring how generally crazy your statement is, you could at least adhere to the facts. Glyphosate is an excellent non-selective herbicide, but it is not used on wheat. It is used on soybeans, canola and corn. Beyond correcting that factual error, the rest of what you wrote is too crazy to merit any comment.
That's very much incorrect. Round Up is used on wheat even though wheat is not currently a GMO. Even though there is no Round Up(glyphosphate) Ready GMO wheat it is still very common to apply Round Up to wheat just prior to harvest to desiccate it making it easier to harvest. You may be confusing GMO staples like soy, rapeseed(canola), and corn with non GMO wheat, that to best of my knowledge, has not yet been approved as a GMO. But that does not mean Round UP is only used on those Round Up Ready GMO's.
SurfiLodge is correct in saying wheat and many other staples have Round Up applied to them. It is not just GM crops either. The use of Round Up has sky rocketed in the last 25 yrs. It stands to reason now more than ever we are consuming more Round UP.
StubbleJumper
03-17-2017, 19:22
That's very much incorrect. Round Up is used on wheat even though wheat is not currently a GMO. Even though there is no Round Up(glyphosphate) Ready GMO wheat it is still very common to apply Round Up to wheat just prior to harvest to desiccate it making it easier to harvest. You may be confusing GMO staples like soy, rapeseed(canola), and corn with non GMO wheat, that to best of my knowledge, has not yet been approved as a GMO. But that does not mean Round UP is only used on those Round Up Ready GMO's.
SurfiLodge is correct in saying wheat and many other staples have Round Up applied to them. It is not just GM crops either. The use of Round Up has sky rocketed in the last 25 yrs. It stands to reason now more than ever we are consuming more Round UP.
Dogwood,
I respect your views on most things related to hiking, but on the subject of food or agriculture we must depart. A quick check on snopes and an actual visit to a wheat producing region would tell you that the usage of glyphosate on wheat is nonsense. It's virtually non-existent, and even when it's done, there are rules for how far in advance of harvest dessication must be done, which minimizes risk to consumers. Better to bring up real risks in real life.
http://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/roundupwheat.asp
SJ