Backpack with wheels to just pull

[AlpineKevin]

So I threw this idea out there in a PTC thread but now that I think I'm serious about it I'm going to make it's own thread.

As a thru-hiker on the PTC I noticed that it looks like a good portion of the trail is just dirt trail (and in some cases even flat dirt road like next to the aqueduct). So it occurred to me that instead of carrying 30+ pounds of gear/water why not just carry absolutely no weight at all and have it roll behind you. So here is what I'm thinking.

Buy an external frame back pack. Solder two lawn mower wheels on the top of it. And then on the removal hip belt just attach a leash on either side. That way when you want to carry it the wheels are just sitting over your head without you even being aware of them, but when you don't want to carry 30 pounds and would rather just walk with no weight then you can set it down, remove the hip belt and just walk with it behind you.

Look at this Kelty external backpack and see what I'm talking about. It would require not much work at all to turn it into something you can just pull for thousands of miles instead of carry. It could save the hiking life of someone with bad knees too.

https://kelty.com/yukon-48/

[Maineiac64]

Carry 20 lbs instead.

[AlpineKevin]

After looking at some narrow parts of the trail I think the best option would be 1 single tire from a riding lawnmower. The tire is wide enough to not have stability issues with a single tire. I'm looking at putting it on maybe a Kelty Tioga 5500. So simple.

[Engine]

After looking at some narrow parts of the trail I think the best option would be 1 single tire from a riding lawnmower. The tire is wide enough to not have stability issues with a single tire. I'm looking at putting it on maybe a Kelty Tioga 5500. So simple. If you set it up like a travois with a single low pressure tire and a well padded waist belt, it would probably work. I'm not certain the pros would outweigh the cons though. The PCT is a well graded trail for it's majority, but there are areas in which this idea would probably be unsuitable. I also wonder about trail degradation...would it cause damage to the trail that simply hiking it doesn't? In my area of Florida, we hate when mountain bike riders use the hiking trails because it can really tear the trail up. Not the same thing I know, but food for thought.

[fiddlehead]

I think it's an idea you should try.
They do it in Australia.
I would use more like bicycle wheels than lawn mower wheels though.

But, you dont' have to carry that much water (if your smart)
I've hiked the PCT and never carried more than 3 litres of water.

But keep thinking of new ways to move your gear.
That's an open mind.

[rafe]

Some young fella I met on the GAP last spring was carrying his belongings crudely lashed to a standard issue Craftsman hand truck. He was about 50 miles into a supposed cross-country walk (American Discovery Trail). I kept my thoughts to myself but it didn't look like it was working too well for him.

[full conditions]

Some federal wilderness areas (I'm thinking of Boundary Waters specifically) have banned the use of wheeled vehicles of any sort - so it may be worth your while to check the legalities of your project - lots of wilderness areas on the PCT.

[rickb]

Google up Karl Bushby (Goliath).

He found (and may still be finding) such an approach useful on his multi-year hike around the world.

Not so good for the stretch through the Darrien Gap or Berring Sea but I think it did work in much of North America.

[AlpineKevin]

The PCT is a well graded trail for it's majority, but there are areas in which this idea would probably be unsuitable.

That's when you throw the pack back on. I'm talking about a backpack you can also roll behind you, not a stroller. If it gets rocky, snowy, whatever, you just throw the pack back on with the 1 pound wheel above your head you don't even know is there.


I also wonder about trail degradation...would it cause damage to the trail that simply hiking it doesn't? In my area of Florida, we hate when mountain bike riders use the hiking trails because it can really tear the trail up. Not the same thing I know, but food for thought.

A single wheel rolling across the dirt with 30 pounds on it I would think tears into the trail less than 200 pound hikers with 30 pound packs. Not too mention mules, horses, and llamas,

[saltysack]

Someone already built a contraption just like you speak off. They tried to raise money to market and sell haven't heard anything more on it...just carry less....it's called backpacking not dragging for a reason....[emoji38]

Ps if you have tons of $$ simply hire a Sherpa!


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[AlpineKevin]

I would use more like bicycle wheels than lawn mower wheels though.


And have a bicycle wheel hanging above your head while you hike with the pack on? A bicycle wheel is way more intrusive than it needs to be. Plus bicycle wheels are thin and big for humans. We are talking a 30 pound pack on a thin wilderness trail, not on a bike trail. A single tire from a riding lawnmower would be perfect. It is tough as hell, low to the ground, wide so no stability problems and still small enough so it can sit over your pack while you have your pack on.

[garlic08]

Wherever mountain bikes and other wheeled vehicles are prohibited, so is a wheeled travois. Officially, wheels are prohibited on the PCT, and the AT as well.

I met a European attempting to pull a vehicle like that on the CDT in New Mexico. It did not work out well for him. The extra weight of the wheel and axle system were prohibitive in the many rough trackless areas he had to carry it. And he ignorantly left an illegal wheel track across the Gila Wilderness. He was not aware of the US laws. And then the thing broke after about 500 miles of rocky desert.

[AlpineKevin]

it's called backpacking not dragging for a reason....[emoji38]


It's called rolling not dragging for a reason. I suppose we should go back to using rope for climbing harnesses then too? What are you doing with a smart phone with apps on it, it's called the wilderness for a reason? What are you doing with an emergency Spot device, it's called adventure for a reason? What are you doing with light weight space age fabrics for gear, this is called earth for a reason? Shall I go on? Anybody who uses any backpack under 10 pounds is cheating, thats not real backpacking. A backpack should weigh at least 10 pounds like in the old days. Anyone who tries to make things easier and smarter should just stick to the tour buses. Right?

[AlpineKevin]

Wherever mountain bikes and other wheeled vehicles are prohibited, so is a wheeled travois. Officially, wheels are prohibited on the PCT, and the AT as well.


A backpack with a single unobtrusive wheel on it is not a wheeled vehicle. And "mechanical vehicles" are prohibited. I've been to court several times. I'd have no problem taking this one to court.

[AlpineKevin]

Google up Karl Bushby (Goliath).
.

Nope. Not like I'm talking about at all. I pulled him up and that is a damn cart. You guys are totally not getting what I'm saying with descriptions of "vehicles" and "handcarts" and mechanical devices. Not getting it at all.

[Tipi Walter]

George Meegan already beat you to it---He hiked from Argentina to the top of Alaska using a rolling cart---between 1977-83. 19,000 miles.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/03_Meegan_Starting_Out.jpg

[AlpineKevin]

^^^ Ok that's more in line with what I'm thinking. That is still just a roller cart and not a hybrid backpack with a single wheel. But that is closely to the footprint I'm talking about. Not a damn bicycle, cart, or vehicle.

[GoldenBear]

Massachusetts has clearly stated its regulations on use of the A.T.
http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dcr/massparks/region-west/appalachian-trail.html
Prohibited: Motorized and wheeled vehicles, horses and alcoholic beveragesNote that the laws is explicit that NEITHER motorized or wheeled vehicles are permitted on the The Tail. Good luck insisting that a conveyance with wheels is not a wheeled vehicle.

[ScareBear]

Good luck with your ill-conceived rube goldberg project, you'll be miserable. Get back to me when youv'e got it to work for 15 miles and apply for the patent.

Late to the parade.....

https://gearjunkie.com/mule-backpack

[ScareBear]

It's called rolling not dragging for a reason. I suppose we should go back to using rope for climbing harnesses then too? What are you doing with a smart phone with apps on it, it's called the wilderness for a reason? What are you doing with an emergency Spot device, it's called adventure for a reason? What are you doing with light weight space age fabrics for gear, this is called earth for a reason? Shall I go on? Anybody who uses any backpack under 10 pounds is cheating, thats not real backpacking. A backpack should weigh at least 10 pounds like in the old days. Anyone who tries to make things easier and smarter should just stick to the tour buses. Right?

What are you blathering about? My first harness I made and tied myself. Out of rope. It's called a "Swiss Seat".

And, what is it about NO WHEELED VEHICLES OF ANY KIND OR PROPULSION ARE ALLOWED ON THE AT AND PCT that you fail to comprehend?

Wilderness doesn't mean no cellphone. It means no mechanical devices are allowed to touch nature. Like in the Nanthala Wilderness, do you know how trail maintainers have to saw through a five foot diameter oak tree that fell across the AT? With a chainsaw? Nope. Forbidden. Even for trail maintainers. Crosscut Sawyer to the rescue. Wilderness means no machines. A cell phone is not a machine. A SPOT is not a machine. No bikes means no unicycles. No unicycles means no monowheeled backpack.

[AlpineKevin]

Late to the parade.....

https://gearjunkie.com/mule-backpack

That thing is huge and hauling 200 pounds. I'm talking about a BACKPACK with A WHEEL ON IT. That's it. Not complicated. Take an external frame backpack and throw one small wheel on it (not a car wheel, not a bike wheel, not even a go kart wheel, a backpack wheel). That is it. It is not trying to haul 6 months of stuff or weapons or a recliner, it's just for 40 pounds at most. That's it.

[Deadeye]

It's been invented already:

http://dixonrollerpack.com/

[orthofingers]

I think it's a cool idea. I say, "go for it."

I can't imagine anyone would but, if they did give you grief about it being a wheeled vehicle, you could just swing it up on your back. If people can hike with rubber chickens, teddy bears or soccer balls hanging off their backpacks, why not a wheel.

I'm old enough to remember in the early 1980s when I first saw those small suitcases in airports with two wheels on the bottom and an extendable pull handle so you could roll them through airports. They were pricey at first but, what a genius idea! They're so common and inexpensive today that I'm sure people who don't remember CARRYING suitcases everywhere, think that wheeled suitcases always existed.

Who knows, maybe if you start making these uniwheeled backpacks and they catch on, a decade from now everyone will talk about the "old days" before backpacks had wheels. What would Grandma Gatewood think?

[4eyedbuzzard]

On a more serious and non-attacking note, some thoughts:

Sleds are used a lot on snow to move large loads as they reduce sliding friction. A wheel addresses a similar problem on dry land. A single narrow (less rolling friction) wheel+tire with an Aluminum, Titanium, or Carbon Fiber yoke that attaches to your waist and/or shoulders would likely be the best design. Even so, you will likely be adding 2 to 3 lbs for a lightweight wheel and tire plus the weight of the yoke and frame (perhaps 2 to 3 lbs?) Two wheels will fight each other and get caught on uneven terrain (note that wheelbarrows are much easier to maneuver on uneven terrain. You will also want to pull it behind you on uphills, and conversely have it in front of you on downhills, so you need to design the yoke to accomplish that. A wheel with a diameter any more than the width of your shoulders will prove cumbersome when being carried, and the greatest gains on decreasing friction/rolling resistance come by increasing wheel diameter.

On the AT you will simply carry this extra weight more than half the time due to terrain, and you might just as well mail it home once you hit northern MA - never mind, make that PA. You'll also need a patch kit and an abundant supply of patches and a pump (add more weight).

You also have rules on wheeled vehicles to contend with as others mentioned. Forget YOUR definition of what is and isn't a wheeled vehicle. If an authority figure - ranger, police, etc. believes it violates the provisions of what is deemed a footpath, you will be required to stop using it and carry it. And perhaps get a summons. Now, if you can somehow figure out an ADA provision to allow it, you may be in business on the graded and groomed sections of the trail where it MIGHT work. But again, it's going to be viewed very suspiciously. In the end, the added weight and other concerns just don't justify pulling a cart on a mountain trail. You simply don't have a need to carry that much weight where a wheeled carrying device is justified.

[Ender]

All, a gentle reminder to keep it civil. Insults are not acceptable.

Also, as pointed out, using a wheeled vehicle on the PCT is illegal, and a wheeled backpack falls into that category. As a friend and fellow hiker once said to me, "On the PCT, for reals, no wheels." But there are plenty of trails where a setup like this is allowed.

Again though, keep it civil. Remember, we're all on the same side here... people who just want to get out into the outdoors. Keep that in mind before hitting the Post button.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I would add that, if due to a medical condition or disability, I would think such a device would likely be allowed (especially under ADA), but still not really feasible for a lot of the AT due to terrain. If it would help someone who couldn't otherwise get out and hike the trail, I don't have an issue with it. It just seems that with the weight penalty and the difficult (or impossible) use on steep/rocky/uneven terrain, it's a solution in search of a problem for those who can carry a traditional pack.

[MuddyWaters]

Small wheels dont roll well in dirt, rocks, etc. Trail isnt smooth, its bumpy with embedded rocks, or its loose sand

Legalities aside, dumb idea

Theres a reason lazy people everywhere arent dragging packs where legal. And its not because no one knows about wheels..

[saltysack]

[emoji106]


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[DuneElliot]

Some federal wilderness areas (I'm thinking of Boundary Waters specifically) have banned the use of wheeled vehicles of any sort - so it may be worth your while to check the legalities of your project - lots of wilderness areas on the PCT.

This^^^ Any area designated wilderness under the Wilderness Act prohibits the use of any wheeled vehicle in order to keep these areas as pristine as possible; no carts, no bikes, no wheelbarrows!

[Slo-go'en]

As noted, the roller pack has already been invented. Legality aside, you'd be stuck at the first switchback trying to make that 180 degree turn. The only place something like that would be practical is on a long road walk, like the ADT.

I once saw a young woman dragging a wheeled suitcase out of the woods on the AT in Virginia on a Sunday morning. Apparently a group of kids had a party not too far into the woods that Saturday night.

[burger]

On another practical note, that thing will not work at all in snow. And you're going to be hiking in snow at some point on the PCT. This year you'll have a ton of snow. But even in a normal year, it would be pretty much useless for a lot of the Sierra.

And on a legal note, if you make it to the JMT without getting a ticket or worse for your illegal cart, it's a sure bet that you will run into a wilderness ranger (you pass multiple ranger stations on the trail). And when that happens, you and your wheeled pack will be politely escorted to the nearest trailhead. You could switch to a regular pack for the Sierra, but do you really want to have your first section of hiking with an actual pack be the hardest part of the trail?

Illegal. Impractical. Don't bother.

[Malto]

I had a conversation last year with a potential PCT regarding this exact idea. He thought it was a great idea, I thought it was worthy of my signature line. I think what is missed here is what a device would be like in real life. Real life has blowdowns, log crossings, stream crossings, snow fields, narrow trail, steep areas, rocky areas etc. You would be constantly engaging and disengaging the wheeled based on terrain and then burdened with extra pounds in the areas where the wheel is disengaged. Also, in order to have a wheel engaged on both uphill struggle and downhills the wheel would have to be highly adjustable. IMHO a better approach is to get your pack weight down to a level where it is rarely noticed. BY the way, it was the picture of me with the rolling suitcase that started the discussion on the other thread. That was Scout's suitcase that I used in that picture, certainly not something that was even remotely practical.

[DuneElliot]

I had a conversation last year with a potential PCT regarding this exact idea. He thought it was a great idea, I thought it was worthy of my signature line. I think what is missed here is what a device would be like in real life. Real life has blowdowns, log crossings, stream crossings, snow fields, narrow trail, steep areas, rocky areas etc. You would be constantly engaging and disengaging the wheeled based on terrain and then burdened with extra pounds in the areas where the wheel is disengaged. Also, in order to have a wheel engaged on both uphill struggle and downhills the wheel would have to be highly adjustable. IMHO a better approach is to get your pack weight down to a level where it is rarely noticed. BY the way, it was the picture of me with the rolling suitcase that started the discussion on the other thread. That was Scout's suitcase that I used in that picture, certainly not something that was even remotely practical.

With this in mind the idea would be suited to the round-the-world type of backpackers, but not for hiking, on trail kind of backpackers

[jefals]

On another practical note, that thing will not work at all in snow. And you're going to be hiking in snow at some point on the PCT. This year you'll have a ton of snow. But even in a normal year, it would be pretty much useless for a lot of the Sierra.


That's when you replace the wheel with a ski

[Maineiac64]

In fairness to the OP, most of the world's great inventions have been built by people that faced enormous skepticism and disbelief in either the practicality or possibility. These people forged ahead and did it anyway and did the convincing. Maybe it could work, looks like many people have tried it in various forms that rely solely on the wheel so maybe being able to sometimes carry it as a pack would overcome that limitation. The equipment now available to provide pretty low weight backpacking options seems like it limits the practicality. I think it would be just easier and less hassle to carry a pack but ymmv.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Just a thought about the "absolutely no wheels" thing: not actually true. Because of the ADA, anyone with a disability who requires the use of a wheeled vehicle is absolutely entitled to use said vehicle on federal lands. You may have noticed how the new privies in GSMNP are wheelchair accessible? It may seem ridiculous to say that the trails need to be accessible to wheelchairs, manual or automated, but that's the law.

Now, I realize this is off-topic and the real question is whether the wheel-optional pack is a good idea. I think it's a great idea! Create it with or without the rah-rahs of your audience. I'm sure people poo-pooed the velcro idea before it became the mainstream wonder that it is.

[Bronk]

While this may be easier over flat or downward sloping terrain, it seems to me these kinds of vehicles would put the burden of most of the weight on your shoulders instead of your hips when going uphill...which to me would make the think miserable...I'd rather carry 50 pounds on my hips than try to drag 40lbs up a hill with a wheel.

[DuneElliot]

Just a thought about the "absolutely no wheels" thing: not actually true. Because of the ADA, anyone with a disability who requires the use of a wheeled vehicle is absolutely entitled to use said vehicle on federal lands. You may have noticed how the new privies in GSMNP are wheelchair accessible? It may seem ridiculous to say that the trails need to be accessible to wheelchairs, manual or automated, but that's the law.

Now, I realize this is off-topic and the real question is whether the wheel-optional pack is a good idea. I think it's a great idea! Create it with or without the rah-rahs of your audience. I'm sure people poo-pooed the velcro idea before it became the mainstream wonder that it is.

This is the only exception, although most places where this would apply would be inaccessible to wheel chairs or similar wheeled aids anyway.

[rafe]

Disregarding legalities... there certainly are stretches of AT where the right kind of wheel might work. And other stretches where a wheel would be worse than useless. Sometimes "it's just walking". Other times, it's considerably more than that.

[RockDoc]

Not a lawyer but I would think that laws (ADA) will protect you if you have physical pain or injury that prevents carrying a backpack. This would allow you to drag a wheeled cart in wilderness areas that are posted no mechanized vehicles. You are adjusting for a personal disability. Period.

You wouldn't (legally) argue against a blind or low vision person using a guide dog, anywhere they wish to go.

[Kookork]

To OP:Thinking outside the box is what you are doing. Go for it if it gives you a sense of satisfaction. Surely people have been thinking about what you want to do before and some have come with some prototype or after prototype but yours might address the issue better , who knows.

Do I think it would be any real help for you on PCT in long run? No.

Can you start a civil discussion with authorities in the middle of the trail that what you are dragging behind is not a wheeled vehicle? sure but you are not gonna win the discussion( or argument). If they say it is illegal then it is illegal until proven otherwise in court or somewhere similar.

If I were you, I would go to a DIY forum to ask for help or suggestions. Not that people here can't help, we have great innovative mind here on Whiteblaze but a DIY forum is more specific for your need.

Is there such a thing like a DIY forum out there? I don't know but in a world that we have forum for "God knows what" and "whatchamacallit" then DIY forum is probably there.

[devoidapop]

I think finding the right wheel and tire will be a challenge. With varying terrain, how much traction will you need? If you think about car tires, a small and narrow sedan tire gets great mph but won't grip in snow or sand. A knobby jeep tire grips well but mph is terrible.

Whatever you come up with, please document the maiden voyage.

[ScareBear]

Not a lawyer but I would think that laws (ADA) will protect you if you have physical pain or injury that prevents carrying a backpack. This would allow you to drag a wheeled cart in wilderness areas that are posted no mechanized vehicles. You are adjusting for a personal disability. Period.

You wouldn't (legally) argue against a blind or low vision person using a guide dog, anywhere they wish to go.

The dog is allowed in a wilderness area, and can carry your pack, or drag it. But I don't think on a wheeled cart. However, if you need a wheelchair, even a motorized one, you CAN try it out in the wilderness. However, you can't force the NPS to build any accommodation in the wilderness for your wheelchair. Or your blindness. Or any other disability. You are on your own. All you get is your dog and/or your wheelchair. Your dog doesn't get a wheelchair. Or a cart. I don't think....

YMMV....

[Traveler]

Not a lawyer but I would think that laws (ADA) will protect you if you have physical pain or injury that prevents carrying a backpack. This would allow you to drag a wheeled cart in wilderness areas that are posted no mechanized vehicles. You are adjusting for a personal disability. Period.

You wouldn't (legally) argue against a blind or low vision person using a guide dog, anywhere they wish to go.

That might be appropriate were the OP to have some kind of disability, which they do not claim. The ADA would not have an opinion regarding the use of wheeled devices to lessen pack weight, as the OP goal was expressly stated.

Federal Wilderness areas specifically prohibit mechanical devices, which include a variety of things including wheeled transportation, which this device would neatly fit into the category. I'm sure there are some uses for it here and there on the long distance trails, I'm equally sure there would be more time spent messing around between carrying and set-up/tear-down than it would be worth.

[cmoulder]

It is not difficult at all to get pack weight down to 25lbs max, which includes 5 days food and a liter or 2 of water.

Reducing weight is an entirely realistic and achievable objective. Using a wheeled pack is practically and legally not going to happen. And laughably unnecessary at 25 lbs.

Maybe concentrate on the easily obtainable and not the impossible? ;)

[orthofingers]

I walk in a town-owned forest everyday where there are a few trails with some significant elevation gain/loss. . . . kind of a mental meditation walk. There is a sign at the entrance saying no motorized vehicles and no bicycles. I rarely see another person there but occasionally see erosion evidence of ATV or bicycle use.

Although, it would likely be futile to argue with an authority figure about what is or isn't a "wheeled" vehicle, I believe the intent of the rule is to prevent degradation of the trail. A powered wheel (whether the power comes from a human or a motor) has a tendency to tear up the trail surface and cause erosion. Even a bicycle coasting down a dirt trail can cause rutting when it takes a corner or skids from the brakes being applied. I think a rubber tire, passively being rolled along, at a walking pace, would cause less trail degradation than the footprints left by backpackers. (In a nerdy way, it would interesting to see if footprints left in the trail surface by a 180 lb. person carrying a 30-40 lb. backpack would be any less significant than the same person where some of the backpack weight was borne by the wheel.)

Some backcountry rules make more sense to me than others, i.e. a cooking stove with a shutoff valve vs a fancee feest type stove or 2 inch trees straps vs 1" straps but, I can't see how a backpack convertible into a rolling backpack would bother either the trail surface or anything/anyone else. (unless the wheel squeaked with each revolution.)

[Traillium]

Since we're allowed to think creatively, how about going diametrically opposite to wheels? How about a Helium-inflated bladder attached inside the top of your backpack?
Totally silly, I'll admit …
But could it work? How big a Helium 'balloon/bladder' would be required to lighten one's backpack by, say, half?

… I can see it in my mind's eye: "Pardon me, Ranger, sir, but have you seen my empty pack floating across on the other side of this canyon? I forgot to tie it to the ground before I took my bear can out for supper …"

[4eyedbuzzard]

Since we're allowed to think creatively, how about going diametrically opposite to wheels? How about a Helium-inflated bladder attached inside the top of your backpack?
Totally silly, I'll admit …
But could it work? How big a Helium 'balloon/bladder' would be required to lighten one's backpack by, say, half?

… I can see it in my mind's eye: "Pardon me, Ranger, sir, but have you seen my empty pack floating across on the other side of this canyon? I forgot to tie it to the ground before I took my bear can out for supper …"Since you asked https://www.stevespanglerscience.com/blog/2009/10/17/balloon-boy-helium-physics-science/

Theoretically, it would require a 7+ foot diameter helium filled balloon to lift 11.5 lbs, and a 9+ foot diameter one to lift 24.5 lbs. The "+'s" are to compensate for a few pounds of lift needed to lift the weight of the balloons themselves.

[rocketsocks]

I'd sure hate to take a spill with that contraption attached to me, kinda limits your rock hoppin' choices.

[RockDoc]

I'm trying to be open minded about options, as I age with back problems but a deep love for wilderness.
I'm surprised at the negativity to options for people with such problems. In fact, I believe that back problems could qualify as a legal disability, therefore being covered under ADA.

[saltysack]

This is the only exception, although most places where this would apply would be inaccessible to wheel chairs or similar wheeled aids anyway.

O yea? I have a younger brother who is a para from a car accident...he sent me this....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/df2684fa7d95d90d6b92e211b1864f4c.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sarcasm the elf]

O yea? I have a younger brother who is a para from a car accident...he sent me this....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/df2684fa7d95d90d6b92e211b1864f4c.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's badass!

[ggreaves]

The dixon roller pack is available as well as the mule. As scarebear says, you wouldn't be able to use it on the AT, but they exist...

http://dixonrollerpack.com/3327.html

[Odd Man Out]

I'm getting 7 feet, 7 inch diameter balloon to give 15 lbs of lift but you then have to subtract for mass of the balloon for the net benefit. Lift would also be lower if the helium is pressurized by the balloon. If there is a head wind, wind resistance will probably push you backward.

Now if you a hydrogen filled balloon you get the same lift from a much smaller balloon (about half the volume). Plus you could probably rig up a stove to run on burning the hydrogen so you wouldn't have to carry fuel.

[Odd Man Out]

I'm getting 7 feet, 7 inch diameter balloon to give 15 lbs of lift but you then have to subtract for mass of the balloon for the net benefit. Lift would also be lower if the helium is pressurized by the balloon. If there is a head wind, wind resistance will probably push you backward.

Now if you a hydrogen filled balloon you get the same lift from a much smaller balloon (about half the volume). Plus you could probably rig up a stove to run on burning the hydrogen so you wouldn't have to carry fuel...........

38181

[Oventoasted]

I'm getting 7 feet, 7 inch diameter balloon to give 15 lbs of lift but you then have to subtract for mass of the balloon for the net benefit. Lift would also be lower if the helium is pressurized by the balloon. If there is a head wind, wind resistance will probably push you backward.

Now if you a hydrogen filled balloon you get the same lift from a much smaller balloon (about half the volume). Plus you could probably rig up a stove to run on burning the hydrogen so you wouldn't have to carry fuel.

best. idea. ever!! Need to find me some hydrogen!

[jackwagon]

The quote below comes from here: http://www.ncd.gov/publications/1992/December1992#1

In 1990 Congress passed the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA). The ADA specifically addresses the issue of wilderness access in Section 507(c):

(1) In General--Congress reaffirms that nothing in the Wilderness Act is to be construed as prohibiting the use of a wheelchair in a wilderness area by an individual whose disability requires use of a wheelchair, and consistent with the Wilderness Act no agency is required to provide any form of special treatment or accommodation, or to construct any facilities or modify any conditions of lands within a wilderness area to facilitate such use.
(2) Definition--For the purposes of paragraph (1), the term wheelchair means a device designed solely for use by a mobility-impaired person for locomotion, that is suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area.

[rocketsocks]

best. idea. ever!! Need to find me some hydrogen!its everywhere, same place you get your days water, bring extra fuel or batteries.

[rocketsocks]

O yea? I have a younger brother who is a para from a car accident...he sent me this....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/df2684fa7d95d90d6b92e211b1864f4c.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalki like it! needs goggles and a scarf.

[Traillium]

Since you asked https://www.stevespanglerscience.com/blog/2009/10/17/balloon-boy-helium-physics-science/

Theoretically, it would require a 7+ foot diameter helium filled balloon to lift 11.5 lbs, and a 9+ foot diameter one to lift 24.5 lbs. The "+'s" are to compensate for a few pounds of lift needed to lift the weight of the balloons themselves.


Thanks for the speedy precise answer. I knew somebody would prick my balloon. I'm deflated …

[ScareBear]

I'm getting 7 feet, 7 inch diameter balloon to give 15 lbs of lift but you then have to subtract for mass of the balloon for the net benefit. Lift would also be lower if the helium is pressurized by the balloon. If there is a head wind, wind resistance will probably push you backward.

Now if you a hydrogen filled balloon you get the same lift from a much smaller balloon (about half the volume). Plus you could probably rig up a stove to run on burning the hydrogen so you wouldn't have to carry fuel.

Toting a big latex ball of explosive gas in the woods...what could go wrong?

Two words.....Graf.....Zeppelin.....

Oh, the humanity....

[ScareBear]

O yea? I have a younger brother who is a para from a car accident...he sent me this....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/df2684fa7d95d90d6b92e211b1864f4c.jpg


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And, I immediately thought of....Bloom County....the new one with Cutter John's new chair...

http://sdcomicartgallery.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BloomCounty_mini.jpg

[DuneElliot]

O yea? I have a younger brother who is a para from a car accident...he sent me this....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/df2684fa7d95d90d6b92e211b1864f4c.jpg


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I was not trying to be offensive but there are many wilderness areas he would not be able to get that to just due to nature of the specific trail because of rocks or river crossings etc. The Solitude Loop trail I did last year had a few places an off-road wheel chair like that might be able to access, but there were a lot more that would difficult for even the most experienced mountain bikers with a single track to take on.

[AfterParty]

Look up disc golf carts

[AlpineKevin]

Toting a big latex ball of explosive gas in the woods...what could go wrong?

Two words.....Graf.....Zeppelin.....

Oh, the humanity....

Helium is a noble gas. Meaning it is completely inert. Meaning non-reactive. Meaning it will not combust or do anything else.

[ScareBear]

I'm getting 7 feet, 7 inch diameter balloon to give 15 lbs of lift but you then have to subtract for mass of the balloon for the net benefit. Lift would also be lower if the helium is pressurized by the balloon. If there is a head wind, wind resistance will probably push you backward.

Now if you a hydrogen filled balloon you get the same lift from a much smaller balloon (about half the volume). Plus you could probably rig up a stove to run on burning the hydrogen so you wouldn't have to carry fuel.

Hey AlpineKevin, maybe you should read the thread instead of trying to pick a fight with me, S.E.A.L. boy...

[saltysack]

I was not trying to be offensive but there are many wilderness areas he would not be able to get that to just due to nature of the specific trail because of rocks or river crossings etc. The Solitude Loop trail I did last year had a few places an off-road wheel chair like that might be able to access, but there were a lot more that would difficult for even the most experienced mountain bikers with a single track to take on.

I totally agree.....just thought was pretty cool....no way could make switch backs etc...I could see rolling down the mountain on that for sure......


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[Feral Bill]

I'm getting 7 feet, 7 inch diameter balloon to give 15 lbs of lift but you then have to subtract for mass of the balloon for the net benefit. Lift would also be lower if the helium is pressurized by the balloon. If there is a head wind, wind resistance will probably push you backward.

Now if you a hydrogen filled balloon you get the same lift from a much smaller balloon (about half the volume). Plus you could probably rig up a stove to run on burning the hydrogen so you wouldn't have to carry fuel. Hydrogen is only 15% less dense than helium. That mattered in an airship, as it was all usable lift, but pointless on this scale. And yes, I know your post is for humorous effect.

[Feral Bill]

Toting a big latex ball of explosive gas in the woods...what could go wrong?

Two words.....Graf.....Zeppelin.....

Oh, the humanity.... Wrong Zeppelin, you mean the Hindenberg.

[Feral Bill]

I see no benefit to a wheel. A comfortable pack is no issue on the flat, and going up hill you do at least as much work with wheels. More if you wheel rig has a significant weight penalty, as it surely would.

[Smithereens]

Here's a bit of info. Did you know that a wheel cannot climb (roll over) a vertical object that is more than 1/3 of it's height? So that 3" diameter wheel will only "roll" over objects 1" or less in height. Anything taller and the wheel is forced to stop turning and must be drug over. That's why off road vehicles, including bicycles, run on large diameter tires.

And stability problems... you have never used a wheelbarrow on a construction site, have you? Single wheel and rough terrain are always a bad combo.


Makes me wonder if you are imagining trails to be utterly smooth and well groomed. They ain't! Many places around here (including the AT) are difficult enough just to walk, forget about dragging 30 + lbs up and down the mountains.

The best part of this is your getting angry when others point out the obvious.:banana



And have a bicycle wheel hanging above your head while you hike with the pack on? A bicycle wheel is way more intrusive than it needs to be. Plus bicycle wheels are thin and big for humans. We are talking a 30 pound pack on a thin wilderness trail, not on a bike trail. A single tire from a riding lawnmower would be perfect. It is tough as hell, low to the ground, wide so no stability problems and still small enough so it can sit over your pack while you have your pack on.

[cmoulder]

Sometimes when people claim to be seeking information they are really seeking (or, in this case, demanding) validation. ;)

To which the only response that will satisfy them is "Sounds like a great idea — try it and let us know how it goes!!"

[ScareBear]

Sometimes when people claim to be seeking information they are really seeking (or, in this case, demanding) validation. ;)

To which the only response that will satisfy them is "Sounds like a great idea — try it and let us know how it goes!!"

Post pics...

[z96Cobra]

Legal issue of wheel solved...

38229

[saltysack]

Legal issue of wheel solved...

38229

[emoji23]


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[dzierzak]

Legal issue of wheel solved...

38229

Close, but no cigar...

NOUN


a circular object that revolves on an axle and is fixed below a vehicle or other object to enable it to move easily over the ground.
synonyms: disk (http://www.bing.com/search?q=define+disk) · hoop (http://www.bing.com/search?q=define+hoop) · ring (http://www.bing.com/search?q=define+ring) · circle (http://www.bing.com/search?q=define+circle)

[middle to middle]

Think like a Navy Seal, hire a helicopter service to drop our pack to you when you stop !

[middle to middle]

Actually the thought came from an Army Ranger. They probably have a lot more travel fast and light ideas.

[RangerZ]

Actually the thought came from an Army Ranger. They probably have a lot more travel fast and light ideas.

Travel light and freeze at night. I don't need to practice that any more. RLTW.

[Turk6177]

I ran into a guy on the JMT with a very odd pack. He told me he and his brother started out with a metal box and a one wheeled rickshaw type towing device. They ran into a ranger who told them no wheeled vehicles were allowed on the trails. They had to get rid of the cart and strap the metal box to themselves. I recall also one time in the bottom of the Grand Canyon, I saw a guy carrying his mountain bike on the Kaibab trail. He was mountain biking the Arizona Trail (a 3 use trail--horses, bikes and hikers). He was not allowed to use the bike in the Grand Canyon on the trails.

[Grunt]

Lots of people have replied and I didn't read them all, but I had the same thought years ago but after section hiking about half the trail I would humbly say it would be extremely impracticable. Way too much rock hopping and some of the descents would be crazy. So many "blow-downs"... for me the extra work would be a killer....someone mentioned going lighter and make sure your pack is a comfortable one... that's still good advice.