View Full Version : Punching a few holes on Tyvek of my tent footprint:
A few times I have been woken up in the morning sleeping in a pool of water in my tent soaking everything on floor because the rain has found its way to collect between the Tyvek footprint and the floor of my tent and since the floor is normally not as water proof as the Tyvek the tent floor gives up and starts to ooze water inside the tent. Now I know that if I set up my tent perfect it should not happen but mostly it happens when the forecast says no rain and I keep the rain cover somehow semi open and then the rain comes and accumulates after a few hours inside my tent while I am sleeping deeply .
To avoid this problem I am thinking about punching a few holes * maybe 4 in my tyvek footprint to help the water goes down to ground and stop creating a shallow pool of water on my Tyvek.
What do you think about it?
How do you avoid this water problem?
MuddyWaters
02-13-2017, 17:35
I think you need a refresher year as a 10 yr old boyscout.
The most useful place for groundcloth in rain...is inside tent under your stuff. Thats where it keeps you dry. Outside, it does exactly what you cite. Your better off with no footprint, than one that traps water under you
Site selection is everything. Nice soft duff that water seeps into and totally dry tent bottom even in all night downpour
Secondmouse
02-13-2017, 17:43
your boat leaks so you want to punch a few holes in the bottom to let the water out?..
people that do use a groundsheet under the floor have it smaller (by a couple of inches or so) than the floor itself.
your boat leaks so you want to punch a few holes in the bottom to let the water out?..
Tyvek is not there to keep the water off my tent floor. It is there mostly to keep my tent floor scratch free.
people that do use a groundsheet under the floor have it smaller (by a couple of inches or so) than the floor itself.
It is smaller than my tent footprint .
Time to waterproof the tent floor
thom
saltysack
02-13-2017, 20:25
Muddy summed it up.....ditch the footprint....no need...
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The footprint protects the tent floor from abrasion. Tyvek is not "waterproof" and especially after some wear (like when you wash it a few times to make it soft) it will easily wet through.
The footprint protects the tent floor from abrasion. Tyvek is not "waterproof" and especially after some wear (like when you wash it a few times to make it soft) it will easily wet through.
My experince with Tyvek has been different.I find it quite waterproof even after 3 cycles of washing in Machine and 700 miles use.
My experince with Tyvek has been different.I find it quite waterproof even after 3 cycles of washing in Machine and 700 miles use.
Then you need a new tent.
In the beginning you made an unintelligible description of leaving the tent open and waking up in a puddle. Is that about right?
Did the rain enter from above?
I'm so confused. I'm glad that I own watertight tents and make sure that they are secure before falling asleep.
Explain how you sleep through rain falling on a tent. The first or second drop wake me up.
Wayne
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Then you need a new tent.
In the beginning you made an unintelligible description of leaving the tent open and waking up in a puddle. Is that about right?
Did the rain enter from above?
I'm so confused. I'm glad that I own watertight tents and make sure that they are secure before falling asleep.
Explain how you sleep through rain falling on a tent. The first or second drop wake me up.
Wayne
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I have a fairly new Lightheart Solong 6( 60 nights use) and it is seam sealed. It works just fine including the tent floor.
What happens if water drips down the tent walls and finds its way between the tyvek and the tent floor? ( not because the tyvek is bigger than tent floor but because of lazy tent setup or not finding a perfect place for optimum tent set up. The tyvek acts like a pool of water and after hours the water oozes through the tent floor inside. I don't wake up when it rains because where I live it rains frequently during the night(Ontario) and I can sleep thru anything after a long hike . The job of being alert is my dog's and if he barks I wake up immediately.
For whatever reason (not tent's fault) I have had couple of nights that water found its way into the space between the tyvek and my tent floor and then inside my tent . It does not wake me up because I am sleeping on top of a 4 inch high Thermarest Xtherm and It keeps me from feeling wet during the night.
cmoulder
02-14-2017, 00:22
Next time you're home and it's all dried out and clean, inspect the floor against a strong backlight to find any holes and fix them with SilNet and some silnylon patches. I repaired a Stephenson 2RS like this and it was good as new. One time there was enough water under it to almost float my air mat with me on it (hasty site selection, under duress!) and it didn't leak! :)
saltysack
02-14-2017, 00:27
I have a fairly new Lightheart Solong 6( 60 nights use) and it is seam sealed. It works just fine including the tent floor.
What happens if water drips down the tent walls and finds its way between the tyvek and the tent floor? ( not because the tyvek is bigger than tent floor but because of lazy tent setup or not finding a perfect place for optimum tent set up. The tyvek acts like a pool of water and after hours the water oozes through the tent floor inside. I don't wake up when it rains because where I live it rains frequently during the night(Ontario) and I can sleep thru anything after a long hike . The job of being alert is my dog's and if he barks I wake up immediately.
For whatever reason (not tent's fault) I have had couple of nights that water found its way into the space between the tyvek and my tent floor and then inside my tent . It does not wake me up because I am sleeping on top of a 4 inch high Thermarest Xtherm and It keeps me from feeling wet during the night.
I also have a solong6.....I've never used a ground sheet and never had any water get inside...the tyvek is creating the problem...just ditch it! If you wear out the floor have Judy repair or replace the floor.....simple solution. I've used mine in various ground conditions and yet to have any issues...great tent....I'll be in the Everglades with mine next month....thank god its skeeter proof!!!
Is there any possibility that you have the tent closed up so tightly that the puddle is from condensation exacerbated by the rain?
Maybe you have a defective floor? It happens. Nobody's fault.
Wayne
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My experince with Tyvek has been different.I find it quite waterproof even after 3 cycles of washing in Machine and 700 miles use.
Define "quite waterproof". For a fabric to be considered waterproof the general standard is that it will resist moisture penetration by a column of water 1,000mm high.
The weight of your body creates static pressure on the layers of Tyvek Housewrap and tent floor forcing moisture through the semi-permeable barrier.
Gambit McCrae
02-14-2017, 09:50
Time to waterproof the tent floor
thom
My trail/ tent experience is only 2500 miles vs most guys on here that are reeeaaaaal close to a full life time of experience..:-? - theres a mean joke in there somewhere.
Anyways, I have not used a ground clothe since the boy scouts. before I lay my tent down, I clear the area of all debri. so..if there is nothing to damage my tent, and my bathtub floor is water proof, then no need for a ground clothe.
Define "quite waterproof". For a fabric to be considered waterproof the general standard is that it will resist moisture penetration by a column of water 1,000mm high.
The weight of your body creates static pressure on the layers of Tyvek Housewrap and tent floor forcing moisture through the semi-permeable barrier.
Here is some statistics about Tyvek on internet:
http://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7137/how-resistant-to-water-is-tyvek-in-practice
My Tyvek is Homewrap type so it is around 2000 mm waterproof before the wash.
Starchild
02-14-2017, 10:33
I have never used a a tent footprint, and after the AT thru and other uses backpacking have not seen the need to. The only time it did get punctured was a cuben fiber tent floor, never with sil-nylon. So easily and permanently patched with a quarter sized piece of CF tape - far better and lighter than carrying a separate footprint. Tent floors, even silnylon, are repairable and the repair is lighter than the groundsheet, but it doesn't happen often.
Having the tent floor against the ground itself will typically give you the best drainage of all and driest situation. that is worth something in terms of not having wet gear and puddles of water inside the tent. Often even after a heavy rain the ground under the tent is totally dry.
But if you are determined to use it, and it is for abrasion purposes only, you may consider bug netting instead of tyvec. Even though it is not as strong, it does offer excellent drainage and is pretty tough and does offer some level of abrasion resistance and should be lighter weight and pack smaller than tyvec.
If you don't think bug netting is strong enough for a floor check out the reviews and comments on the z-pack hexamid which uses exactly that, and there are many comments to that effect, people wondering if it's strong enough and actual usage saying yes.
Time Zone
02-14-2017, 11:09
Site selection is everything. Nice soft duff that water seeps into and totally dry tent bottom even in all night downpour
I agree, yet have you noticed that one of the "LNT Principles" (camp on durable surface) is in conflict with that? Sorry if this is a thread hijack, but while I agree with most LNT stuff, some the standards are debatable at best. One of the worst things about them is that they are sometimes presented as unquestionable (and inviolable). I suppose that further expounding upon the point merits a different thread - probably one that already exists. Nevertheless, I really agree with you, few things seem less appealing that a packed down, scalloped tent area that is sure to gather water in rain.
colorado_rob
02-14-2017, 11:19
I have never used a a tent footprint, and after the AT thru and other uses backpacking have not seen the need to. The only time it did get punctured was a cuben fiber tent floor, never with sil-nylon. So easily and permanently patched with a quarter sized piece of CF tape - far better and lighter than carrying a separate footprint. Tent floors, even silnylon, are repairable and the repair is lighter than the groundsheet, but it doesn't happen often.
Having the tent floor against the ground itself will typically give you the best drainage of all and driest situation. that is worth something in terms of not having wet gear and puddles of water inside the tent. Often even after a heavy rain the ground under the tent is totally dry.All of this.
But if you are determined to use it, and it is for abrasion purposes only, you may consider bug netting instead of tyvec. Even though it is not as strong, it does offer excellent drainage and is pretty tough and does offer some level of abrasion resistance and should be lighter weight and pack smaller than tyvec.
If you don't think bug netting is strong enough for a floor check out the reviews and comments on the z-pack hexamid which uses exactly that, and there are many comments to that effect, people wondering if it's strong enough and actual usage saying yes.Great idea using this bug netting as a supplement for those that just can't stand not having additional "protection" for their conventional tent floors! I was wondering why my flimsy polycrYo sheet never wore out, sitting on top of my zpacks tent bug net flooring, now it kinda makes sense, that bug netting really does provide decent protection. Consider doing this ye folks who just have to have a ground sheet under their expensive tents.
(full disclosure, my wife is one of these folks, she keeps insisting we put something under our new expensive BA copper spur tent... I might just break down and buy a piece of bug netting, zpacks sells theirs in 63" widths, $8 bucks a linear yard, 2 yards would weigh 2.5 ounces, I'd cut it down to maybe 42# wide by 6' long, I calculate that at 1.63 ounces; would this be a good Valentine's day present for her ?????)
Here is some statistics about Tyvek on internet:
http://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/7137/how-resistant-to-water-is-tyvek-in-practice
My Tyvek is Homewrap type so it is around 2000 mm waterproof before the wash.
According to Judy, your tent floor has a hydrostatic head rating of 3,500 mm.
Somethin ain't right.
Wayne
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MuddyWaters
02-15-2017, 00:10
I agree, yet have you noticed that one of the "LNT Principles" (camp on durable surface) is in conflict with that? Sorry if this is a thread hijack, but while I agree with most LNT stuff, some the standards are debatable at best. One of the worst things about them is that they are sometimes presented as unquestionable (and inviolable). I suppose that further expounding upon the point merits a different thread - probably one that already exists. Nevertheless, I really agree with you, few things seem less appealing that a packed down, scalloped tent area that is sure to gather water in rain.
Forest duff is loose leaf litter and peaty soil under tree canopy. Perfectly OK in dispersed camping imo. You would never know someone was there, and does no damage to anything. Repeated use in high use area would be different.
Durable surfaces is mostly intended simply to not be plants and grass, ie living vegetation that is easily damaged. Out west this usually means sand and rocks, or pre-existing campsite. Lots of people are attracted to nice soft short grass areas near water in the sierra. That vegetation is easily killed.
interesting thoughts. I've read and heard the idea before about putting the sheet inside for waterproofing
But like others I have historically used ground sheets for protecting the tent a little. In my thinking the biggest benefit is in keeping it cleaner... when I break camp in the morning the bottom may be wet but it's not wet and dirty....and I figure it's the dirty fabric that will leak first. Otherwise I like the bug netting idea.
Regardless...As I move into lighter weight thinking, i can imagine I'll be ditching the whole thing soon enough.
Starchild
02-15-2017, 12:07
Forest duff is loose leaf litter and peaty soil under tree canopy. Perfectly OK in dispersed camping imo. You would never know someone was there, and does no damage to anything. Repeated use in high use area would be different.
Durable surfaces is mostly intended simply to not be plants and grass, ie living vegetation that is easily damaged. Out west this usually means sand and rocks, or pre-existing campsite. Lots of people are attracted to nice soft short grass areas near water in the sierra. That vegetation is easily killed.
LNT has a fluff the duff campaign to encourage people to move the duff around to make it look undistrubed.
LNT has a fluff the duff campaign to encourage people to move the duff around to make it look undistrubed.
I don't recall any campsite on the AT where I had to pitch my tent on dirt. There was always leaves or pine needles on the ground, so getting the ground side dirty just isn't an issue.
daddytwosticks
02-15-2017, 17:09
I don't recall any campsite on the AT where I had to pitch my tent on dirt. There was always leaves or pine needles on the ground, so getting the ground side dirty just isn't an issue.
You must have avoided pitching your tent around shelters. Most of the earth is pretty bare and trampled around shelters, at least in my experience. :)
rocketsocks
02-15-2017, 17:47
Oh my gawd, just punch the damn holes :D
LNT has a fluff the duff campaign to encourage people to move the duff around to make it look undistrubed.
"The Horror"
I look for places that have been used so I don't spread the used look around. Besides, in a mixed spruce pine aspen forest the duff is constantly replenished.
Perhaps the LNT faithful don't get out enough.
Wayne
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THREAD DRIFT!
OP, how's your tent floor?
Wayne
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THREAD DRIFT!
OP, how's your tent floor?
Wayne
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My tent floor says hi to everybody.
Back on track. Sorry about that.
Have you spoken to Judy? She might have some insight on the problem.
Wayne
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Back on track. Sorry about that.
Have you spoken to Judy? She might have some insight on the problem.
Wayne
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I did not talk to Judy but found two tiny holes on the floor and fixed it. They are not visible unless you use the light to find them. Still I may carry my Tyvek on PCT at least up to Kennedy Meadow because I use an inflatable thermarest Xtherm pad and the desert section is not too kind to inflatable pads .
Glad you found the possible culprits. Good luck.
Wayne
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Time Zone
02-17-2017, 10:34
Great idea using this bug netting as a supplement for those that just can't stand not having additional "protection" for their conventional tent floors! I was wondering why my flimsy polycrYo sheet never wore out, sitting on top of my zpacks tent bug net flooring, now it kinda makes sense, that bug netting really does provide decent protection. Consider doing this ye folks who just have to have a ground sheet under their expensive tents.
Maybe the polycryo wouldn't have worn out anyway. It doesn't strike me as the kind of thing that wears out from abrasion (not easily anyway), but from punctures.
[I agree, the bug net material may still be a good idea as a substitute].
ImAfraidOfBears
02-17-2017, 11:55
I did not talk to Judy but found two tiny holes on the floor and fixed it. They are not visible unless you use the light to find them. Still I may carry my Tyvek on PCT at least up to Kennedy Meadow because I use an inflatable thermarest Xtherm pad and the desert section is not too kind to inflatable pads .
The desert is very kind to inflatable pads, you must be thinking of forested areas.
Unless you pitch your tent directly on a cactus.
I am wondering about Cowboy camping , What people use under their mattress in case of cowboy camping if they don't carry a footprint such as Tyvek?
colorado_rob
02-17-2017, 13:09
I am wondering about Cowboy camping , What people use under their mattress in case of cowboy camping if they don't carry a footprint such as Tyvek?The tent body, which includes the tent floor, just lay it out flat, lie down and go to sleep. I prefer this over the tent fly, because I prioritize saving wear/tear on that critical piece.
I did not talk to Judy but found two tiny holes on the floor and fixed it. They are not visible unless you use the light to find them.
NOOO! Leave the holes, they let the water out!
NOOO! Leave the holes, they let the water out!
If I don't use Tyvek in rainy nights you DO have a valid point.
bamboo bob
02-17-2017, 17:23
Tyvek is not there to keep the water off my tent floor. It is there mostly to keep my tent floor scratch free.
Yes. better to ward off sharp pointy things.
Find where the water is entering the tent. Check corner/apex seams and the seams where the netting abuts the silny. Check guy out pts! It may not be the floor but if a dog inside the tent is the habit floor can abrade or wear thin. All seams are likely culprits. If dog is inside tent in future perhaps a tent interior floor sheet would help. Regular pools of water on interior floor from condensation seem questionable even for Ontario.
Do as Cmoulder said checking floor for small holes with a light. Also: Set tent up. Place up on blocks, 2x4's etc. Fill with water. See where it leaks. Might have to re WP the entire floor.
With the Tyvek it certainly is not WP forever. However, you may not need perfect site selection with a tent that is functionally WP. On a projected rain day find a site with a slight slope. On the uphill sides roll the Tyvek creating a water barrier on the edge just under the outer edge of the tent floor.
Even if you did have water get under your tent but above the Tyvek a WP tent shouldn't leak unless you're really apply pressure on a tent floor that needs to be re WPed anyhow. Even with the cheapest tents my nephews have used setting up in depressions with a ground sheet with water getting between teh Tyvek and silny tent floor I can go inside the tent and feel the tent floor acting like a waterbed with no water getting in. Find the place where the tent is leaking. That is the primary objective.
Good to hear from you Kookork.
ScareBear
02-18-2017, 05:27
What am I missing here?
Is your tent floor not waterproof?
Because if your tent floor is waterproof, how is the water getting in?
Have you used your tent in the rain WITHOUT the ground cloth?