View Full Version : Z Packs Bear Bag vs. S2S 13L Ultra Sil Bag
I was all set with my ZPacks CF Bear Bag Kit and have used it for short weekend trips for over two years. However, I am reading and hearing more and more that it will struggle to hold enough food for 7 to 10 day's and also has issues with the Biner ripping the loop from the bag due to weight issues. This does not mean that the bag itself is week or not durable.
I have also seen many people that are using a 13L Sea to Summit Stuff Sac as a Food Bag and are raving about it's carrying capacity while still being lightweight.
As I can repurpose the CF Bear Bag for Clothing, I really would like to hear views and preferences of others. Which is better and why? Also, which model of the S2S?
(PS. I don't need to hear about Outdoor research however, I own a 10L and while very Waterproof, it is to heavy to compare to the Zpacks.)
Thanks for your opinions!
MuddyWaters
02-15-2017, 22:35
Seein as how zpacks is 12.5L, 13L wont gain you much.
Now the 20L S2S would gain you a bunch
Reasons I likes me zpacks foodbag:
1. Not a floppy sack, has enough body to stay open and support itself
2. Likes the drawcord top and mini biner combo
3. Not round, shaped to fit better in pack, doesnt create wasted space
4. Not round, things pack better inside it
5. Easily repairable with tape if needed
6. Dont get no lighter
7. Not slippery fabric
I ditched my zpacks bear bag about 500 miles into my thru hike. The seams started giving out and it had a lot of holes in it. Ended up with an ultralight dry bag that worked great. Don't have it in front of me but I believe it is an OR ultralight model. Really wasn't that much heavier and was much bigger. Also much easier to hang as the beaner that came with the zpacks was junk and the bag came down a few times. Not just mine either. I saw a few zpacks bags come down when the beaner broke. With the dry bag you just clip it and then tie your line right to it. Talked to the zpacks guys at trail days about it and they shrugged. Maybe it is better now? I'm pretty sure they put a better clip on the sack.
Trail Ponderer
02-15-2017, 23:43
I bought the zpacks bear bag kit last year in a attempt to lighten up. The biner was a piece of junk. Never stayed closed. I think it bent on me. I didn't like the cord much (too thin) especially when pulling up about 6 days of food. The bag and the throw sack was fine. I will test it again on a Spring section hike but may just go back to my old REI stuff sack/biner/paracord option. I packed it on my second section last year cause I wasn't sure about the zpacks system.
I seen many S2S on the trail and liked what I saw but have no personal use with it.
MuddyWaters
02-16-2017, 02:15
The gate on the mini-biner can bend to side possibly when pct hanging heavy bags. The tiny biner is not indestructible, the wt attempts to bend it across the stick when hanging. Careless or rough use(letting bag wt drop onto stick with force) could impart high enough loads to cause it to bend open, and foodbag to drop later. After more than 1000 miles I have no complaints. I dont expect cuben to stay waterproof, or last forever. Works fine treated with care, like most UL gear, but need to pay attention to weaknesses.
soumodeler
02-16-2017, 07:38
Never had an issue with my ZPacks bear bag kit. It is ultralight gear, so you must treat it with more care than regular gear, but it is not a hassle.
the line is plenty strong enough to hoist 5+ days of food without worry. The biner, while small, has never bent in hundreds of miles of use. I hang PCT style when no cables are available and like muddy said, gently lower the bag. I carry a second biner to close the bag when overstuffed with food. Put it thru the middle loops at the opening and I can carry 5+ days of food.
Again, I don't expect it to last forever, but I do like it. Has held up well over the last 500 or so miles I have carried it.
Your post will bring out all the zpacks fan boys and girls. Almost any bag will do .
Thom
ScareBear
02-16-2017, 10:37
Your post will bring out all the zpacks fan boys and girls. Almost any bag will do .
Thom
+1
I started out years and years ago with a nylon gym bag that I used as bear bag. Used cheap white nylon braid rope from the hardware store. It did have a 'biner, though....
Truthfully....I only graduated to paracord 25 years ago....
Now, it is an STS dry bag, Lawson slickline and the same darn rock...
colorado_rob
02-16-2017, 10:58
Your post will bring out all the zpacks fan boys and girls. Almost any bag will do .
ThomI'm a huge zpacks fan, EXCEPT their cuben bags. I bought a few of different sizes, and because they were expensive, darn it, I use them. But I'm not a fan. Flimsy, I hate the draw cord, they are not particularly waterproof, I prefer my GG sacks, all told about 2 ounces heavier for 3-4 of them.
I am a huge fan of the S2S 13L bag, used one for an entire AT and probably an equal number of total miles of backpacking beside that, still going strong! When it finally wears out, I'll buy another.
G-FOURce
02-16-2017, 12:36
I, also, am a fan of the S2S Ultra-Sil bags. I have been using one for my food back for more than a year and have never had an issue with it at all. Never. The fabric is less prone to abrasion than cuben and the craftsmanship is great - I can put a week's worth of food in it and have no issues with seam integrity.
I like the convenience of buying prepared, freeze dried meals from REI and I have found that using 4mil food-safe, heavy-gauge zip locks to repackage them in advance of my trips is better b/c they'll roll up much smaller than the sharp, rigid foil bags that those meals are packaged in which means I can fit more of them into a smaller food bag. I roll up my 4mil zipped meals, put those in an OpSack, and put that in an odor-barrier bag which goes in the S2S food bag. I use the tiny Ti 'biner that came with my S2S Ti long spoon to secure the food bag to my bear-bag line and I have never had a problem with it, either. Voila.
Cubans best purpose to me is a shelter material. If you want to go very light and have extra cash for it.
thom
soumodeler
02-16-2017, 16:14
Your post will bring out all the zpacks fan boys and girls. Almost any bag will do .
Thom
Any post about ZPacks gear will bring out the haters as well... :D
Its an opinion, not everyone is going to agree with your views.
Any bag will work...
It says almost any bag !!! I have a zpacks tarp. It's great . Cuban is not always the best material for things IMO Cubans best purpose is shelter material. Hater very funny
S2S ultra-sil bags are great for food. I used one on the AT and PCT. After well over 4,000 miles, some of the seam taping finally came undone (though the stitching never gave out), and the bag had a few holes from hungry mice. I bought a new one for the CDT, and that bag is over 3,000 miles now, too, and still looks almost new. The PCT/AT bag is totally usable other than the holes, and to this day, I bring it on trips where I expect mice to be a problem.
The only drawback that I can see is that the bags aren't fully waterproof. If you hang your bag outside a shelter in the rain, some water might get in. This doesn't bother me, since I just keep a wet food bag outside my pack liner.
I've gotten up to 7 days of food (@ over 4,000 calories per day) in the 13-L bag. If you are planning to go for 10 days between resupply you might want to go for 20 L. The weight difference is pretty negligible iirc.
(BTW, where are you going that you need to carry 7-10 days of food? Don't carry more weight than you need to! Go to town instead!)
MuddyWaters
02-16-2017, 18:40
Your post will bring out all the zpacks fan boys and girls. Almost any bag will do .
Thom
Will do...maybe
As easy.....no
For instance, long, skinny, cylindrical bags suck. Hard to get anything out of without dumping whole thing. MLD makes such a cuben bag......it sucks. Zpacks shape is the big benefit, moreso than being cuben. But if you aint used one enough to experience that, you cant understand...so you dont
Will do...maybe
As easy.....no
For instance, long, skinny, cylindrical bags suck. Hard to get anything out of without dumping whole thing. MLD makes such a cuben bag......it sucks. Zpacks shape is the big benefit, moreso than being cuben. But if you aint used one enough to experience that, you cant understand...so you dont
Ha ha it's a bag you put food in and hang in a tree .
thom
blue indian
02-17-2017, 09:03
Will do...maybe
As easy.....no
For instance, long, skinny, cylindrical bags suck. Hard to get anything out of without dumping whole thing. MLD makes such a cuben bag......it sucks. Zpacks shape is the big benefit, moreso than being cuben. But if you aint used one enough to experience that, you cant understand...so you dont
Agreed man. The shape of the bag makes all the difference.
My ultrasil bag failed on a 200 mile section hike last year. Bought a zpacks bag at trail daze and havent looked back
saltysack
02-17-2017, 12:07
I'm no fan boy but have had the zpacks roll top food bag and the ul beener for about 5 years with no complaints..I've patched a few abrasions and have a little rust on the beener clip as I've used in salt water...still works fine...All that said it's only been hung probably less than 20 times....mostly been a pillow...those ul beeners are same ones most all cottage mfg sell....light and durable is a tough combo to achieve...
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Turk6177
02-17-2017, 12:15
Trail urban legend, but possibly true, supposedly rodents have to work a little harder biting through cuben fiber than silnylon. I had carabiner issues, but that is generally from pulling the bag up PCT method at a certain angle allowing the rope to cross the gate of the beaner. If you pull from the bottom, or are cognizant of where the rope is sitting on the beaner as you hoist it, you will be fine. You can always get a light weight climbing beaner that has some side gate strength to remedy this issue.
Maybe that urban legend is a bit true until you get to Maine and those little red squirrels show up. Those little bastards chewed holes in everything and are aggressive as heck. During the 100 mile I was sleeping with my foodbag under my head so I would wake up if they started chewing. My hiking partners had holes in their tent, pack and foodbag. They even had to eat the ramen that those little things got into.
eblanche
03-14-2017, 16:55
I'm not a fanboy and the only zpacks stuff I have are stuff sacks/dry bags and cord. I purchased a blast food bag kit in January of 2014 and used it fairly extensively over the next almost three years before it was sadly stolen by a bear south of bear mountain this past October as I finished my through hike.
The bag simply lasted way longer than I figured it would. Yes, it was still completely waterproof as the bear ran away with it. Admittedly, I did not hang my bag very much and I never had any issues with the tiny biner. I love the cord and can only complain about how thin it is when hanging heavy loads (sacrifice for lighter cord). I was able to stuff about 6 days of food in there at times but could sometimes only get 5. Your results may vary. Like mentioned, the shape fits much better than round bags for my ohm 2.0, burn, and other packs. The rock bag works but I don't think it is very durable. I guess it depends on the crap you put inside of it...(try not to use sharp stones).
I've never hung a bear bag in my life as I don't live in a bear country. I was gonna use plumb line instead of para cord. Unsure of the breaking strain. If that fails the weight test, then to get a strong abrasion resistant fishing line. The idea is to attach a small carabiner clip that easily fastens onto my knife, and toss it over a branch. In theory it makes sense but.... The bag is an 20L S2S compression sack with 3 days food, although in essence I'll only be hanging 2 days worth after the last meal of the day. Obviously it can take more food when required. Alternatively I can use a Zpaks bag that my sleeping bag came in and was designed for, but after reading above notes it might be better served storing other things.
Sometimes thin line cuts through the bark on the limb .
Thom
Saprogenic
03-14-2017, 19:29
I like how waterproof the cuben is over the woven nylon dry bags. I too noticed it's hard to fit 6 days of food in there, plus once filled, it doesn't fit the arc blast too well. It's a narrow fit in the pack and felt it could be wider and overall larger. I contacted zpacks, the food bag was apparently designed when the packs were smaller. He was willing to update the food bag for me, it's now wider and taller. I think it'll be on the site soon.
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/3/7/1/4/5/img_6299.jpg
Saprogenic
03-14-2017, 19:31
Oh and these fit inside them perfectly....
https://smile.amazon.com/BaseCamp-F232320-Odor-Barrier-Bags-X-Large/dp/B00GHFSMES/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1489534243&sr=8-3&keywords=odor+proof+bag
MuddyWaters
03-14-2017, 21:33
I like how waterproof the cuben is over the woven nylon dry bags. I too noticed it's hard to fit 6 days of food in there, plus once filled, it doesn't fit the arc blast too well. It's a narrow fit in the pack and felt it could be wider and overall larger. I contacted zpacks, the food bag was apparently designed when the packs were smaller. He was willing to update the food bag for me, it's now wider and taller. I think it'll be on the site soon.
https://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/3/7/1/4/5/img_6299.jpg
Joe used to make custom in good old days. Ive got two different sizes. One was made to fit ULA circuit.
ScareBear
03-14-2017, 21:36
I'm not a fanboy and the only zpacks stuff I have are stuff sacks/dry bags and cord. I purchased a blast food bag kit in January of 2014 and used it fairly extensively over the next almost three years before it was sadly stolen by a bear south of bear mountain this past October as I finished my through hike.
Oh......stop. Another irony meter shattered. Is it a full moon?
fastfoxengineering
03-14-2017, 21:52
I bought my first food bag about 5 seasons ago. A s2s 20L ultrasil dry bag. It had probably a thru hikes amount of miles and nights with it. It held up great aside from a couple holes that were my fault. I dropped the bag about 10 feet ontoo a sharp stick. It had about 14 lbs of food in it.
I never patched the hole and surprisingly it didn't get any worse.
I liked the orange color.
I did not like it's shape. Especially when full. If you needed something at the bottom it was just easier to dump it out.
It didn't pack well when full due to its long cylindrical shape.
Most of the time I just pushed the air out and twisted it up when packing it in my bag.
It developed a hiker food bag funk. Im sure they all do though.
I got my money's worth. But the experience with that bag guided me to selecting my current food bag. A zpacks.
Ill change my mind again when this one wears out. Which is gonna be a while because I have tons of cuben repair tape.
Hoping to get 5,000 miles out of it. Im almost certain I could have gotten that out of the s2s but I mistreated it. I did salvage a nice piece of silnylon off of it though. Probably make stake sack out of it
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fastfoxengineering
03-14-2017, 21:58
I should add I only retired my s2s cause I had an extra $50 in my PayPal account and wanted to splurge on some new gear. Not a necessity at all.
I knew I wanted a zpacks bag. It just took two years and a few beers to persuade me to click checkout on their website.
Overall been very pleased with it. The cuben feels bombproof. Moreso than the ultrasil..Time will tell.
I vote the shape of the bag is more important in real world use than the material, cuben vs silnylon.
I use a plastic #2 nite ize sbiner for my bear bagging needs.
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