Prioritizing gear changes

[TX Aggie]

Good morning everyone!

First off, an admission: I'm a recovering heavy hauler addict. I recently returned to (pleasure) hiking after a multi-year hiatus, and during that time equipment has changed....drastically. So much so that a year ago I doubted people who said you can get everything you need into a sub 40lb ruck......I mean pack.

Yes, I'm former military, so the thought of a 40 lb hiking backpack already sounds ultralight to me. But now that I'm getting older and re-evaluating my hiking, I realize this UL trend may be looking into. So now I'm at a crossroads wondering where to start. I have 2 main issues: finances (don't we all) and daughters who have discovered backpacking as well.

So now I basically need 2 setups: a "heavy" setup for when I'm hiking with them, and a solo setup. The heavy I'm OK with for now, because most of my solo stuff I can mix into as I buy it. It's the solo gear I need to concentrate on. So I need some general guidance as to best sequence of getting my new setup, especially as it pertains to the Big Three.

My current setup:
Pack: CFP-90 Military winter pack, 90L, 8lbs
Bag: Army Sleep system, smallest bag is 40* at about 2 lbs (full system good for sub zero is 7lbs)
(Notice a pattern?)
Tent: 3-person Eureka, 7lbs

My solo goals:
Get big 3 down to 10-15
Considering quilt/hammock vs tent
Prefer durability vs absolute lightest weight, especially with pack.
Because of the kids, most of my solos will be long weekends. No thrus planned in the foreseeable future.

The quilt idea recently caught my attention, so I'd greatly appreciate any advice on quilts vs bags.

So basically, where is the best place to start and what factors lead from one transition to the next? I can afford to do all 3 at once, it will likely be over the next year.

Thanks for any advice and help. I've learned a lot of new info from just the short time I've been reading the group.




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[ScareBear]

Good morning everyone!

First off, an admission: I'm a recovering heavy hauler addict. I recently returned to (pleasure) hiking after a multi-year hiatus, and during that time equipment has changed....drastically. So much so that a year ago I doubted people who said you can get everything you need into a sub 40lb ruck......I mean pack.

Yes, I'm former military, so the thought of a 40 lb hiking backpack already sounds ultralight to me. But now that I'm getting older and re-evaluating my hiking, I realize this UL trend may be looking into. So now I'm at a crossroads wondering where to start. I have 2 main issues: finances (don't we all) and daughters who have discovered backpacking as well.

So now I basically need 2 setups: a "heavy" setup for when I'm hiking with them, and a solo setup. The heavy I'm OK with for now, because most of my solo stuff I can mix into as I buy it. It's the solo gear I need to concentrate on. So I need some general guidance as to best sequence of getting my new setup, especially as it pertains to the Big Three.

My current setup:
Pack: CFP-90 Military winter pack, 90L, 8lbs
Bag: Army Sleep system, smallest bag is 40* at about 2 lbs (full system good for sub zero is 7lbs)
(Notice a pattern?)
Tent: 3-person Eureka, 7lbs

My solo goals:
Get big 3 down to 10-15
Considering quilt/hammock vs tent
Prefer durability vs absolute lightest weight, especially with pack.
Because of the kids, most of my solos will be long weekends. No thrus planned in the foreseeable future.

The quilt idea recently caught my attention, so I'd greatly appreciate any advice on quilts vs bags.

So basically, where is the best place to start and what factors lead from one transition to the next? I can afford to do all 3 at once, it will likely be over the next year.

Thanks for any advice and help. I've learned a lot of new info from just the short time I've been reading the group.




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You don't mention how many folks you need to sleep in your "heavy" set up.

As long as your daughters can carry their packs, you don't need two rigs.

It goes without saying that just about anything, even super cheap gear, is going to be a weight improvement over your antique gear.

Looking at price on larger backpacks...the Granite Gear Crown VC60 comes to mind. Under 200 bucks, barely over 2 pounds. If you need/want something larger than a 60L pack, you might as well bump up to a 85L Granite Gear Nimbus Trace Access...$250 bucks and 4.5 pounds.

Tents....need to know how many you need to sleep.....

Bags....just take a look at Montbell.us as a starting point for high-quality, low weight, reasonably priced down bags.

Pads...you should be able to get a good pad with R3.2 to R4.4 between 1.3 pounds and 1.8 pounds for around 100 bucks if you shop carefully...take a look at Klymit Static V Lite Insulated or this Big Agnes Air Core...on sale it's only 70 bucks, R4.1, 1 pound 4 ounces... https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/117868/big-agnes-air-core-insulated-sleeping-pad-regular

[4eyedbuzzard]

Well, you have to get the weight of the stuff that you put in your pack down before you can go to a lighter pack with less suspension/carrying ability - so as usual, you get all your gear first, then the pack to carry it.

In your case, the 2 lbs for the 40°F sleeping bag is okay for summer trips (but not shoulder seasons), but the 7 lb tent has to go first. Look to go sub 3lbs for a 2 person tent at reasonable cost. You can get lighter, as in sub 2lb , but the prices start going up exponentially with weight reduction as you get into cuben fabric, etc. Also, some 3 person tents aren't that bad weight wise these days, and you may well want to go that route with daughters in tow. Suggestions - Big Agnes Copper Spur, Lightheart Gear, MSR, etc. Make sure you investigate tent sizes thoroughly - many two man tents are 1 1/2, many 3's are 2's, etc. For an adult with smaller children, most 3's will fit 3, etc. The other option is to gear for your own solo needs and have a separate tent for your daughters.

Sleeping bags - you get what you pay for. Even though I don't own the following setup (I'm "stuck" with my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag for the immediate time anyway) if I had it to do all over again I'd go with a set of two quilts for versatility Probably a 40° and a 20° - read this https://support.enlightenedequipment.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002770588-Quilt-Layering

Sleeping pad - Hard to go wrong with either a Neoair or Klymit or Synmat.

If considering a hammock, others will hopefully comment on how to approach assembling this option. I've tried, and just have trouble getting used to sleeping in mid air.

[Malto]

I would focus on three things in this order.
1) pare down all the other stuff you haven't listed. There is likely pounds of unneeded stuff.
2) get a good bag or quilt. Likely one of the biggest investments but one that will last a long time if done right. If you are looking at quilts then you have to factor in the entire sleep system at least when looking at your end point.
3) shelter. If you are going solo on some trips then you can buy (or make) a lightweight shelter. IMHO less is more. I would play around a bit with some prototype shelters, for example, a blue tarp to see if a lightweight tarp works for you. The key is playing around to learn your style so that you can buy or build something that works without doing a lot of multiple gear purchases. Worry about group camping later or just use what you currently have.

I wouldn't buy anything else especially a pack until these three things are done. Only then will you be able to see what else can be optimized and then your pack requirements will be obvious. When I went through this I would have never believed going in where I would end up in the end. I didn't start out quite as heavy as you but I did have an ALICE pack with the required three carabiners and Kabar knife. I have settled on a gear set with a base weight of about 8 lbs. and have upset roughly the same gear for the last seven years.

[TX Aggie]

You don't mention how many folks you need to sleep in your "heavy" set up.

As long as your daughters can carry their packs, you don't need two rigs.

It goes without saying that just about anything, even super cheap gear, is going to be a weight improvement over your antique gear.

Looking at price on larger backpacks...the Granite Gear Crown VC60 comes to mind. Under 200 bucks, barely over 2 pounds. If you need/want something larger than a 60L pack, you might as well bump up to a 85L Granite Gear Nimbus Trace Access...$250 bucks and 4.5 pounds.

Tents....need to know how many you need to sleep.....

Bags....just take a look at Montbell.us as a starting point for high-quality, low weight, reasonably priced down bags.

Pads...you should be able to get a good pad with R3.2 to R4.4 between 1.3 pounds and 1.8 pounds for around 100 bucks if you shop carefully...take a look at Klymit Static V Lite Insulated or this Big Agnes Air Core...on sale it's only 70 bucks, R4.1, 1 pound 4 ounces... https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/117868/big-agnes-air-core-insulated-sleeping-pad-regular

My daughters can carry their own sleeping gear, personal water, and a portion of the food. My oldest is fairly capable, but the youngest (11) is pretty small for her age at only 50lbs soaking wet. She does fine with the hiking itself, I just don't want her carrying anything over 10 lbs on mountain trails.

For the tent, just need a solo, but also looking at the hammock option. I have a decent one for when I'm with the girls.

Thanks for the advice on Montbell, I'll look them up.

Pad: I didn't list it, but I do have a Therm-a-rest self-inflating. A little on the heavy side as far as pads go (1.5-2 lbs I think). But it works for now.


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[Pastor Bryon]

I hike with my daughter. Over the past year we switched from an entry level pack to a Gregory with a much improved suspension system. I found that she could carry an extra 3-5 pounds just from the new pack. May not sound huge, but that was 3-5 pounds I didn't have to carry now, so everybody wins. It also is big enough that she could solo hike with it down the road no problem. As you consider gear for them, I would say a good backpack is a necessity, almost the first purchase to make. A poor pack leads to a poor experience.

FWIW, my wonderful mother in law paid for several things for my kids to use. Sure, she loves me, but she loves the grandkids more, and she'll buy them stuff. Birthdays, Christmas, or just asking. Her doing that freed me up to get what I wanted sooner.

[TX Aggie]

Well, you have to get the weight of the stuff that you put in your pack down before you can go to a lighter pack with less suspension/carrying ability - so as usual, you get all your gear first, then the pack to carry it.

In your case, the 2 lbs for the 40°F sleeping bag is okay for summer trips (but not shoulder seasons), but the 7 lb tent has to go first. Look to go sub 3lbs for a 2 person tent at reasonable cost. You can get lighter, as in sub 2lb , but the prices start going up exponentially with weight reduction as you get into cuben fabric, etc. Also, some 3 person tents aren't that bad weight wise these days, and you may well want to go that route with daughters in tow. Suggestions - Big Agnes Copper Spur, Lightheart Gear, MSR, etc. Make sure you investigate tent sizes thoroughly - many two man tents are 1 1/2, many 3's are 2's, etc. For an adult with smaller children, most 3's will fit 3, etc. The other option is to gear for your own solo needs and have a separate tent for your daughters.

Sleeping bags - you get what you pay for. Even though I don't own the following setup (I'm "stuck" with my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag for the immediate time anyway) if I had it to do all over again I'd go with a set of two quilts for versatility Probably a 40° and a 20° - read this https://support.enlightenedequipment.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002770588-Quilt-Layering

Sleeping pad - Hard to go wrong with either a Neoair or Klymit or Synmat.

If considering a hammock, others will hopefully comment on how to approach assembling this option. I've tried, and just have trouble getting used to sleeping in mid air.

Thank you, that's the framework I was hoping to hear. I've been looking at the BA tents and like what I've seen. The quilt layering technique is exactly how the current bag I have works, but obviously much lighter, probably 1/3 the weight. I have a decent pad, my main problem with it is it'ss self-inflating so a little heavy for a pad and doesn't compact as much.

Thanks for the insight.


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[TX Aggie]

I would focus on three things in this order.
1) pare down all the other stuff you haven't listed. There is likely pounds of unneeded stuff.
2) get a good bag or quilt. Likely one of the biggest investments but one that will last a long time if done right. If you are looking at quilts then you have to factor in the entire sleep system at least when looking at your end point.
3) shelter. If you are going solo on some trips then you can buy (or make) a lightweight shelter. IMHO less is more. I would play around a bit with some prototype shelters, for example, a blue tarp to see if a lightweight tarp works for you. The key is playing around to learn your style so that you can buy or build something that works without doing a lot of multiple gear purchases. Worry about group camping later or just use what you currently have.

I wouldn't buy anything else especially a pack until these three things are done. Only then will you be able to see what else can be optimized and then your pack requirements will be obvious. When I went through this I would have never believed going in where I would end up in the end. I didn't start out quite as heavy as you but I did have an ALICE pack with the required three carabiners and Kabar knife. I have settled on a gear set with a base weight of about 8 lbs. and have upset roughly the same gear for the last seven years.

Good advice. Most of the basics I bought this past year getting ready to hike with my daughters, so all of my current cooking and first aid setups are for three people and an overly protective dad (former CLS as well, so my first aid kit looks like a trauma bag!) I can easily pair down my cooking pot, first aid, and extras as I go as they are relatively inexpensive.
At first my initial reaction to tarp tenting was "I'm out now, I don't feel like sleeping in the mud anymore." But in all honesty, of its crappy weather I'm probably not going out anyhow, so maybe I'll take another look at that. It's not like it's any worse than shelter halves.

Thanks again.


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[TX Aggie]

I hike with my daughter. Over the past year we switched from an entry level pack to a Gregory with a much improved suspension system. I found that she could carry an extra 3-5 pounds just from the new pack. May not sound huge, but that was 3-5 pounds I didn't have to carry now, so everybody wins. It also is big enough that she could solo hike with it down the road no problem. As you consider gear for them, I would say a good backpack is a necessity, almost the first purchase to make. A poor pack leads to a poor experience.

FWIW, my wonderful mother in law paid for several things for my kids to use. Sure, she loves me, but she loves the grandkids more, and she'll buy them stuff. Birthdays, Christmas, or just asking. Her doing that freed me up to get what I wanted sooner.

Thanks for the chuckle, I actually have a very good MIL as well. She helps in ways other than our hiking habit, but as you said even that help frees up a few extra dollars for hiking.

Good packs for them were actually my primary big expenditures for last year, which is why I was stuck with my older gear. And I agree, having the right pack for them made it much easier and enjoyable. They could probably both handle more weight this year as we divide things up, I just wanted to start them off light so they wouldn't get discouraged.


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[poolskaterx]

I suggest like others have. Get your pack last. I know it is tempting to get one right away as you can save so much weight but know that your new light weight gear will generally be smaller and more compact than your old gear affording you to get a smaller pack. Before goin light I used a 65L Osprey pack and had it crammed to the extreme with stuff lashed onto the out side. I now have more comforts when I go out and easily fit ALL of my gear into a much smaller 52L pack and still have extra room for more gear... I don't cxompress my sleeping bag anymore so it takes up the extra volume of my pack,lol! Have fun gearing up!!!

[poolskaterx]

p.s. I use the xtherm as I am a cold sleeper; I love it

[Kalaallit]

100% get a quilt. Even if you don't get a hammock (they aren't for everyone), quilts represent a significant weight savings compared to sleeping bags of the same temp rating. An Arrowhead Equipment White Cloud top quilt comes in at 1 pound 10 ounces for the 25 degree version for just $170, equivalent in weight and performance to a down bag that could cost $300 or more. Plus, since the quilt is synthetic, it will stay warmer in wet conditions. A Hammock Gear Burrow 20 costs $250 due to the cost of the 850fp down, but weighs just 1 pound 2 ounces, unmatched among sleeping bags for weight and cost.

[TX Aggie]

100% get a quilt. Even if you don't get a hammock (they aren't for everyone), quilts represent a significant weight savings compared to sleeping bags of the same temp rating. An Arrowhead Equipment White Cloud top quilt comes in at 1 pound 10 ounces for the 25 degree version for just $170, equivalent in weight and performance to a down bag that could cost $300 or more. Plus, since the quilt is synthetic, it will stay warmer in wet conditions. A Hammock Gear Burrow 20 costs $250 due to the cost of the 850fp down, but weighs just 1 pound 2 ounces, unmatched among sleeping bags for weight and cost.

Thanks, I'm starting to lean that direction. I'm a fairly warm sleeper, s I think I'm going to start off with the Costco Franken-quilt to see how I like it this summer, then I can upgrade if it feels right to me.

[TX Aggie]

I suggest like others have. Get your pack last. I know it is tempting to get one right away as you can save so much weight but know that your new light weight gear will generally be smaller and more compact than your old gear affording you to get a smaller pack. Before goin light I used a 65L Osprey pack and had it crammed to the extreme with stuff lashed onto the out side. I now have more comforts when I go out and easily fit ALL of my gear into a much smaller 52L pack and still have extra room for more gear... I don't cxompress my sleeping bag anymore so it takes up the extra volume of my pack,lol! Have fun gearing up!!!

Thanks, that generally seems the consensus. And you're right, it's awfully tempting to get the pack first.