View Full Version : Need opinions on food for 5 day trip
nowak1981
02-22-2017, 12:55
Im planning a trip to Zion to do the Trans-Zion trek. Im fairly new to backpacking. Most of my previous experience was using MRE's as food. I was use to them, I knew what they were and I was comfortable with them. The freeze dried stuff im still not comfortable with.
Which brings me here. After carrying over 16lbs of food on my last 5 day trip, I decided to serious put some effort into lightening my load, including my food. I've been able to read quite a bit since I started and I think i have a good understanding of whats needed, but I was hoping for some feedback and possibly some suggestions I haven't already seen.
This is a spreadsheet I've been working on for sometime, my meal plan. Its not perfect just yet, I need to rearrange some things and replace a few items.
Total Weight Pounds-- Day 2 --Day 3-- Day 4 --Day 5
5.82 --4.27 --3.02 --1.77 --0.45 -- This is how much wieght is left after each day Pounds
93.11
Day 1-- Calories-- Protein -- Ounces-- Cal Per Oz
Breakfast
Gatorade 20oz -- 140 Cal -- 0 Pro -- 20 Oz-- 7.00 CPOz -- Store Bought - Drink at start
Brown Sugar Cinamon Poptarts --420 Cal --4 Pro -- 3.55 Oz-- 118.31CPOz -- Equals 2 individual Pastries
Snack
Raisinets -- 190 Cal-- 2 Pro-- 1.58 Oz --120.25CPOz-- 1 Serving
Lunch
Gatorade Packet -- 130 Cal-- 0 Pro-- 1.23 Oz-- 105.69CPOz -- 1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
1 Flour Tortilla-- 140 Cal -- 4 Pro -- 1.8 Oz-- 77.78CPOz -- 1 Serving
3 Big Cheddar Cheese Slices-- 270 Cal -- 15 Pro-- 2.4Oz-- 112.50CPOz -- 3 Servings
21 Pepperoni Slices -- 210 Cal -- 7.5 Pro -- 1.43 Oz-- 146.85CPOz-- 1.5 Servings
Snacks
Teddy Grahams -- 195 Cal-- 3 Pro -- 1.5 Oz-- 130.00CPOz -- 1.5 servings
Dinner
Uncle Ben's Ready Rice Pilaf-- 420 Cal -- 10 Pro -- 9 Oz-- 46.67CPOz --
Gatorade Packet -- 130 Cal-- 0 Pro -- 1.23 Oz-- 105.69CPOz -- 1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Snack
Goldfish Pouch -- 130 Cal-- 5 Pro -- 1 Oz-- 130.00CPOz --
Total -- 2375 Cal --50.5 Pro --24.72 -- 1.55 Total Weight Pounds
Day 2 -- Calories-- Protein -- oz --Cal Per Oz
Breakfast --
Gatorade Packet -- 130 Cal-- 0 Pro -- 1.23Oz-- 105.69CPOz-- 1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Teddy Grahams -- 195 Cal -- 3 Pro-- 1.5Oz-- 130.00CPOz-- 1.5 servings
Snacks
Chewy Strawberry Yogurt Bars --150 Cal --2 Pro -- 1.23Oz --121.95CPOz
Lunch
Gatorade Packet --130 Cal --0 Pro-- 1.23-- 105.69CPOz-- 1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
1 Flour Tortilla -- 140 Cal-- 4 Pro-- 1.8Oz-- 77.78CPOz-- 1 Serving
3 Big Cheddar Cheese Slices-- 270 Cal-- 15 Pro -- 2.4Oz-- 112.50CPOz-- 3 Servings
21 Pepperoni Slices-- 210 Cal-- 7.5 Pro-- 1.43-- 146.85CPOz -- 1.5 Servings
Snacks
Austin Animal Crackers --230 Cal 4 Pro 2Oz 115.00CPOz One package
Dinner
Ichiban Ramen --460 Cal --10 Pro --3.1Oz --148.39CPOz --Per Package
Olive Oil --90 Cal --0 Pro --0.35Oz --257.14CPOz --.5 oz Packet
Goldfish Pouch --130 Cal --5 Pro --1Oz --130.00CPOz --1 Package
Gatorade packet --130 Cal --0 Pro --1.23Oz --105.69CPOz --1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Snack
Raisinets --190 Cal --2 Pro --1.58Oz --120.25CPOz
Total --2455 Cal --52.5 Pro --20.08 --1.26 Total Weight
Day 3 --Calories --Protein --oz --Cal Per Oz
Breakfast
Gatorade Packet --130 Cal --0 Pro --1.23Oz --105.69CPOz --1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Brown Sugar Cinnamon Poptart --420 Cal --4 Pro --3.55Oz --118.31CPOz
Snack
Chex Mix --210 Cal --4 Pro --1.75Oz --120.00CPOz --1 Package
Lunch
MRE Peanut Butter --266 Cal --10 Pro --1.65Oz --161.21CPOz
MRE Crackers --183 Cal --4 Pro --1.65Oz --110.91CPOz
Raisins --90 Cal --1 Pro --1 Oz --90.00 CPOz --1 Small Box
Gatorade Packet --130 Cal --0 Pro --1.23Oz --105.69CPOz --1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Snack
Peanut M&M's --250 Cal --5 Pro --1.74Oz --143.68CPOz --One Package
Dinner
Pasta --300 Cal --10.5 Pro --3 Oz --100.00CPOz --1.5 Servings
Parmesean --40 Cal --4 Pro --0.08Oz --500.00CPOz --2 Servings
Olive Oil --45 Cal --0 Pro --0.35Oz --128.57CPOz --1/2 serving
Gatorade Packet --130 Cal --0 Pro --1.23Oz --105.69CPOz --1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Snack
Teddy Grahams --195 Cal --3 Pro --1.5Oz --130.00CPOz
Total --2389 Cal --45.5Pro --19.96 Oz --1.25 Total Weight Pounds
Day 4 --Calories --Protein --oz-- Cal Per Oz
Breakfast
Gatorade Packet --130 Cal --0 Pro -- 1.23 Oz --105.69CPOz --1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Austin Animal Crackers --230 Cal --4 Pro -- 2 Oz --115.00CPOz --
Snack
MRE Pound Cake --297 Cal --4 Pro -- 2.9 Oz 102.41CPOz
Lunch
Gatorade packet 130 Cal -- 0 Pro-- 1.23 Oz-- 105.69CPOz -- 1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
MRE Peanut Butter 266 Cal -- 10 Pro-- 1.65 Oz-- 161.21CPOz --
MRE Crackers 183 Cal-- 4 Pro-- 1.65 Oz --110.91CPOz --
Raisins 90 Cal -- 1 Pro-- 1 Oz-- 90.00CPOz -- 1 Small box
Snack
Land O Lakes Cheddar Snack-- 90 Cal -- 5 Pro-- 1.05 Oz-- 85.71CPOz -- Individual snack size
Chomps Beef Stick-- 100 Cal -- 9 Pro-- 1.2 Oz-- 83.33CPOz --
Dinner
Ichiban Ramen -- 460 Cal -- 10 Pro-- 3.1 Oz-- 148.39CPOz -- Per Package
Olive Oil-- 90 Cal -- 0 Pro-- 0.35 Oz-- 257.14CPOz -- .5 oz Packet, 1 serving
Goldfish Pouch -- 130 Cal -- 5 Pro-- 1 Oz --130.00CPOz -- 1 package
Gatorade packet -- 130 Cal -- 0 Pro-- 1.23 Oz-- 105.69CPOz -- 1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Snack
Raisinets --190 Cal --2 Pro --1.58 Oz --120.25CPOz --1 Serving
Total --2516 Cal --54 Pro --21.17 Oz --1.32 Total Weight Pounds
Day 5 --Calories --Protein --oz --Cal Per Oz
Breakfast
Gatorade Packet --130 Cal --0 Pro --1.23 Oz --105.69CPOz --1 Packet Powder, Drink with meal, Hike empty
Teddy Grahams --195 Cal --3 Pro --1.5 Oz --130.00CPOz --1.5 servings
Snack
Goldfish Pouch --130 Cal --5 Pro --1 Oz --130.00CPOz --1 package
Total --455 Cal --8 Pro --3.73 Oz --0.23 Total Weight
Extra Meal
Ichiban Ramen --460 Cal --10 Pro --3.1 Oz --148.39CPOz --Per Package
Olive Oil --90 Cal --0 Pro --0.35 Oz --257.14CPOz --.5 oz Packet
Total --550 Cal --10 Pro --3.45 Oz --0.22 Total Weight
Here are a few items I have tried and didnt approve of.
Knorr pasta sides -
Oatmeal
Cliff bars - Pro bars - Even tried making my own
any nuts other then peanuts
Tuna
Tortilla's I can barely tolerate the ones in my pepperoni rolls
Freeze dried Meals
Instant white rice with precooked bacon and olive oil
Tanka or Jack Links Jerky, I like Jerky but need a better source
Most cheese - Cheddar, Colby, and mozzarella are all i can tolerate on their own
Foods I'm Considering
Bacon Jerky - Good but leaves after taste
Mashed potatoes with olive oil - Bland, couldnt find dried corn , Cal per ounce was low
Hot cocoa - Not hot on the idea - Just want to pack and go in the morning
Dried Rice Side - assuming I can cook in a pot - jetboil Minimo
babybel cheese - Low cal per oz
Mild Cheddar cheese and crackers - not sure if I can take kraft or if it has to be specialty
Summer Sausge with above - not sure what I can take
Liptons extra noodle dried soup - low calories
I dont want to cook in the morning or in the afternoon, I dont care for breaks more then 5m or so. Probably training. I'm not a specialty food eater, Im from the midwest. Its hard to find foods that meet my flavor palette, every time I go to the grocery store I go up and down the isles and try find something I can tolerate on the trail that doesnt weight a lot. I've already lost close to 10 pounds of food weight which is huge, but I think i can do better. Its roughly 2400 cal per day with 50ish grams of protein per day, beyond that I dont know squat. Im 5'8" 205 lbs, and I dont mind losing a few. I actually hope to be below 200 before I start. I feel like this is a lot of food and it could be that its not as dense and a lot of the food some of the hardcore hikers are taking.
I appreciate any and all opinions!
I want to improve, I want to learn and I hope you guys can help me do that! Thanks!
That's quite a book you wrote.
I agree with much of what you said about trying to eat what others say you should eat. Knorr Sides and Tuna top my list of foods I avoid.
Try Backcountrypost.com for good information on Zion and all of Utah. Good luck! Try Korean Ramen. Not cheap but tasty.
Wayne
your brain is telling you one thing but your body will tell you quite another
nowak1981
02-22-2017, 14:19
your brain is telling you one thing but your body will tell you quite another
I learned that on my last trip, I really like dried cranberries so I took a bunch with me, I tried to eat them on the second day and couldnt stand them. Its weird. Thats why I have all the variety
TX Aggie
02-22-2017, 14:32
From a fellow MRE convert, welcome to the club. If you're like me, everyone gave you the deer in the headlight look when you said your ultralight setup was 35-40 lbs.
I'm still learning the trail food as well, so I'm mainly going to see what others suggest, but I will say this: don't give up on the freeze dried meals just yet. I've ounce several of the Mountain House to be very close to MRE's in taste. You just have to supply your own Tabasco. I've also found jerky to be a great choice.
I typically like the cliff bars and nuts, so I can't help you there, but another option might be some of the flat breads like pitas and the like instead of tortillas if you can handle them. I'm also a big fan of the babel cheese, but on the trail I've found the Land of Lakes individual packs (or equivalent) a little easier because of carrying the wax coverings after you've eaten the cheese.
I'll let others chime in and see what else I can learn from them.
16 lb of food for a 5 day? Bet that's more wt in the consumable category than your Big 4 gear category. Prime example of why consumable wt is one of my hot button topics and why it needs to be given much greater consideration in wt saving. Good for you to know it too Nowak.
What's your timeframe for the traverse? I've done it twice but food and water wt was determined by things like season I did them.
Immediately some things arise are problems.
1) If you're going at it for long hrs 12-14 hrs with 5 min breaks 2400 cals isn't going to cut it energizing you being mindful that even though calories and cal/oz ratios are critical to your well being and goals it's also about nutrients which is a much wider appropriate nutritional and well being perspective.
2) 2400 cal/day intake with 50ish grams of protein has your diet consisting of 2000 cals from protein. That's got to be a mistake! Your way overloaded on total calories coming from protein particularly as you're looking to save food wt. Perhaps a better ratio is about 55% total calories from carbs, being mostly complex carbs not simple sugars or huge intakes of salt, 35% from fat, GOOD fats, and 15% from protein. I think this will have better nourished, have you increasing daily total caloric intake, AND lowering the food wt for the 5 day.
...I want to improve, I want to learn and I hope you guys can help me do that! Thanks!
nowak1981, I hope this may be helpful.
Search this site:
https://thru-hiker.com/articles/pack_light_eat_right.php
I believe there is great info here to help you decide what foods you will need, to feed your body, and help it recover.
Most people worry more about protein, when they should be concentrating on healthy and nutritious fats, as well as the timing of their intake of certain nutrients.
Good luck in the planning.
2) 2400 cal/day intake with 50ish grams of protein has your diet consisting of 2000 cals from protein. That's got to be a mistake! Your way overloaded on total calories coming from protein particularly as you're looking to save food wt. Perhaps a better ratio is about 55% total calories from carbs, being mostly complex carbs not simple sugars or huge intakes of salt, 35% from fat, GOOD fats, and 15% from protein. I think this will have better nourished, have you increasing daily total caloric intake, AND lowering the food wt for the 5 day.
Isn't 50 grams of protein only 200 calories? Pretty sure you added a zero in there.
Yeah. I certainly did. Thx for checking me on that. ;)
Krave Jerky. Beef, turkey and pork. 3.25 ounce packages last a couple days.
I must be weird. I like most of the Mountain House meals that I have found at Walmart. The Good: Beef Stew, Beef Stroganoff, Chili Mac, Sweet and Sour Pork, Lasagna, Breakfast Skillet, Scrambled Eggs and Bacon-cut back water a little.
The Bad and the Ugly: Chicken and Rice-all rice, no chicken. Biscuits and gravy-YUCK!
Cliff Bars: I like the originals. I scored two boxes of 12 on sale at Walmart yesterday.
The Cliff Builders Bars with 20 grams of protein are TOTALLY AWFUL! The consistency and taste of a brick.
Kind Plus and Larabars are very good and good for you.
Heresy Alert: I don't eat Snickers. I do like M&M Peanut or Almond.
I've never met a nut I didn't like.
I loaded up my food bag last September for a planned 7 day trip in Colorado. It weighed about 6 1/2 pounds, bag and all. Over half of the food could be eaten without benefit of a stove. I got back to the car in the afternoon of day 4. I probably had at least half of the food left over. I was never hungry. Maybe I don't need an "average" ration of food.
Experiment! Everyone is different.
Wayne
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It looks like your food is about 50% sugar. Sure, a lot of people run on sugar (with the associated dental and metabolic problems, eventually). This guarantees that you will always be hungry after each massive insulin crash. This is why you think you need so much food, you are conditioned to insulin crashes. This is also why you are overweight.
You could carry less food (2 lbs/day), have more nutrient density, and less hunger if you upped the protein to 100 g/day and upped the fat content while reducing the damaging carbs. You are on the right track with the pepperoni and olive oil, at least. Think cheese, nuts, jerky... Even eggs and avocados are easy to carry and extremely satisfying and nutritious. You will lose weight because you will start burning your own fat (not so much eating carbs).
BobTheBuilder
02-22-2017, 15:29
Looks like you've thought this through pretty well. I'm a fan of Poptarts for breakfast, too. I started salivating while reading the list.
You might try packaged cheese and crackers or peanut butter and crackers as a lunch option, but most of what you have listed shows up in my pack, too. I do like Starbucks Via powdered coffee as well.
nowak1981
02-22-2017, 19:47
Isn't 50 grams of protein only 200 calories? Pretty sure you added a zero in there.
You'll have to explain this a little more, The post you quoted also confused me a little as well. It went a little over my head
When I looked for food, I mainly focused on Calories and Protein and weight. I didnt know what else to look at. I found a lot of varied info on Calories and barely any on Protein.
I really wanted to take the Land o lakes cheddar snacks but they are like 80cal per oz. When it comes to the Mountain house meals, the only one I might even be remotely interested in, is beef stew. The MRE peanut butter and crackers have more calories and protein then any other PB and crackers I've found. Maybe Im just understanding the nutrition wrong.
I plan on doing the trip in mid June, The first time I went I completed my goal which was 80% of the trek solo. Lee Pass to the Main Canyon. It was in Late May. All the springs were open. The second time I took my brother, who was suppose to be in better shape then me. We ended up dropping out on the third day at Lava Point, I was sad =(. We went in September so water was more scarce, we did a water cache just after hop valley on the 2nd day but he insisted on carrying almost 15 liters of water between the two of us.
The calorie and Protein numbers are just what I get off of the packaging. And Im hoping, as this being my third attempt, that hiking will last 8-9 hours, the 2nd day might be closer to 10. Im carrying a much lighter load, and I know where Im going, (I got lost a few times my first trek). So outside of snacking and some picture taking, I should make some good time.
and thank you Jrwiesz for the link, I took a quick peek at it, definitely an interesting read. Thanks!
Going by 2 lbs. per day, I always had too much food left over. So nowadays it's more like 1 to 1.5 lbs. per day.
The serious hunger usually doesn't kick in on the first day or two
TX Aggie
02-22-2017, 20:46
Oh, I missed one thing that I LOVE while doing any endurance activity:
Chia seeds. They have a great balance of complex carbs and Omega 3 fats to keep you going all day. Just mix into your water bottle (not a hydration bladder though)
Seriously, the things work. You can take along packets of Honey or agave if you need a little taste and extra boost.
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You'll have to explain this a little more, The post you quoted also confused me a little as well. It went a little over my head
When I looked for food, I mainly focused on Calories and Protein and weight. I didnt know what else to look at. I found a lot of varied info on Calories and barely any on Protein.
I really wanted to take the Land o lakes cheddar snacks but they are like 80cal per oz.
I plan on doing the trip in mid June, The first time I went I completed my goal which was 80% of the trek solo. Lee Pass to the Main Canyon. It was in Late May. All the springs were open. The second time I took my brother, who was suppose to be in better shape then me. We ended up dropping out on the third day at Lava Point, I was sad =(. We went in September so water was more scarce, we did a water cache just after hop valley on the 2nd day but he insisted on carrying almost 15 liters of water between the two of us.
The calorie and Protein numbers are just what I get off of the packaging. And Im hoping, as this being my third attempt, that hiking will last 8-9 hours, the 2nd day might be closer to 10. Im carrying a much lighter load, and I know where Im going, (I got lost a few times my first trek). So outside of snacking and some picture taking, I should make some good time...
You are hiking during prime water availability, know where you are going, and know the springs. I know the route too. There is no need in mid June with better water logistics to haul 15 L - 33 lbs of water - for two people doing 8-9 hrs a day. 3 L going solo was the biggest haul and that was during a different significantly drier season ONLY one time during that entire Zion traverse because I was dry camping cowboy camping in no man's land as far as water. That's a far cry from 7.5 L during high water availability times! HUGE wt hit you were taking hauling nearly 15 L for two last time. I strongly suspect the unnecessary water wt played a role in you not finishing.
Throw more "good" fat and fiber into the food mix while, as RocDoc said, lose the necessary abundance of added sugar wt which can do what he said. Added unnecessary sugar calories, hence food substance wt, are vacant nutritional calories overall that can cause energy and a host of other possible eating habit issues. By drinking more and with the increase in fiber you'll feel fuller which translates to less food bingeing from energy roller coasting. Paying greater consideration to choosing nutritionally dense and able to be densely packed snack foods and overall meals high in not only cal/oz ratios but also nutrients with an eye towards lower added sugar content - the snacking foods - that are easy to eat on the go as your approach is is key one of the keys to losing the food wt while sustaining your trail health and energy well being.
Remember even in less desirable cal/oz or nutrient dense foods you can always amend to tweak both upwards.
R U repackaging all your foods? Packaging wt and packaged volume can demand extra package wt and possibly lifting you to require a larger volume hence heavier wt backpack. Rem,ever, going lighter can be attached from multiple fronts. Again, choose foods that densely pack.
Going by 2 lbs. per day, I always had too much food left over. So nowadays it's more like 1 to 1.5 lbs. per day.
The serious hunger usually doesn't kick in on the first day or two
I'm a clueless (sorry Kevin) weekender - 5 day backpacker so I don't have the long trail time. My planning weight for food is 1.2-1.5 lb/day weighed in the food bag with spoon, salt and pepper, EVOO, etc.
I fell down the dehydrating rabbit hole and am careful to try for a protein/fat/carb balance (my chef daughter thought that she'd never hear me talk like this). Most of all I carry what I like.
I sometimes carry a (heavy) MRE entrée for the first night because they're getting old. Same daughter stripped the candy, etc out of them in her younger years.
Isn't 50 grams of protein only 200 calories? Pretty sure you added a zero in there.
Yeah. I certainly did. Thx for checking me on that. ;)
Tighten up Dude! LOL!
Grinning.
nowak1981:
Dogwood will go over everyone's head if we don't pay attention.
The Old School Rule of Thumb is 2 pounds of prepared food per day. Nobody is more Old School than me. My food bag is closer to 1 pound per day at the moment.
However, dried, dehydrated, freeze dried food is not measured in pounds for your 2 pounds per day. You can't eat 2 pounds of dry weight freeze dried food. That's when you start looking at calories.
Some folks make spreadsheets. Bah! Humbug! Says me.
I just make a daily pile with what I figure I can eat in a day. Nido-Instant Breakfast-Pea Protein-Coffee concoction for breakfast. M&Ms, jerky, bars, Ginger Chews, fruit, cheese for nibbles all day. Mountain House dinner & any leftover nibbles or maybe another Breakfast Concoction in the evening. K.I.S.S.
Good luck!
Wayne'
TX Aggie
02-22-2017, 21:30
You'll have to explain this a little more, The post you quoted also confused me a little as well. It went a little over my head
When I looked for food, I mainly focused on Calories and Protein and weight. I didnt know what else to look at. I found a lot of varied info on Calories and barely any on Protein.
I really wanted to take the Land o lakes cheddar snacks but they are like 80cal per oz. When it comes to the Mountain house meals, the only one I might even be remotely interested in, is beef stew. The MRE peanut butter and crackers have more calories and protein then any other PB and crackers I've found. Maybe Im just understanding the nutrition wrong.
I plan on doing the trip in mid June, The first time I went I completed my goal which was 80% of the trek solo. Lee Pass to the Main Canyon. It was in Late May. All the springs were open. The second time I took my brother, who was suppose to be in better shape then me. We ended up dropping out on the third day at Lava Point, I was sad =(. We went in September so water was more scarce, we did a water cache just after hop valley on the 2nd day but he insisted on carrying almost 15 liters of water between the two of us.
The calorie and Protein numbers are just what I get off of the packaging. And Im hoping, as this being my third attempt, that hiking will last 8-9 hours, the 2nd day might be closer to 10. Im carrying a much lighter load, and I know where Im going, (I got lost a few times my first trek). So outside of snacking and some picture taking, I should make some good time.
and thank you Jrwiesz for the link, I took a quick peek at it, definitely an interesting read. Thanks!
I'll see if I can find some good nutrition links for you, I've forgotten where I learned a lot of my info over the years. But if you want to get into the down and dirty of calories and macronutrients ratio targets, we can go that route.
Here's the basics:
3 main macros:
Carbs (further divided by sugars and fibers), 4 calories/g
Protein, 4 cal/g
Fat (further divided monounsaturated, polyunsaturated, saturated, trans. Stay away from trans!), 9 cal/g
Whatever you determine as your caloric intake, on a hike I shoot for 30-40% carbs, 30% protein, 30-40% fats. Protein isn't as important while you're hiking, you mainly want enough so your body doesn't try and scavenge your muscles for fuel.
The fats, try to stay as much with unsaturated, just because they burn more efficiently. Carbs, try not to overdo it on sugar or fiber. Sugar carbs burn off too quickly and don't give you sustained energy, fiber carbs don't get absorbed.
It's because of these factors that nuts/ trail mixes are pretty much staples of hiking. The same goes for why I like chia seeds.
I'm fairly new to the forum, but I've researched diets quite a bit. Feel free to PM me if you'd like. I'm no expert, but I know what helped me and my wife go from overweight to fairly fit, and my wife is even running 5k's now.
As for meal choices on the trail, keep listening to these guys, they've got the hiking end of it down pretty good.
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garlic08
02-22-2017, 21:53
I'm in with the two pounds per day club, and at about 125 cal/oz that gives me about 4000 cal/day (unless I'm doing that in Dogwood math--I guess I don't have a monopoly on that kind of mistake). That's plenty for a tough five day trek.
I pack no processed sugar--whole grain (rolled oats), lots of nuts and nut butters, some bread (tortillas, salty crackers), cheese, dried fruit, Fig Newtons (well, a little processed sugar).
I've never analyzed protein content, but it feels like enough with the oats and nuts (I'm vegetarian). I hiked the AT in 106 days with little weight loss, and I returned to my job as a firefighter with minor loss of strength.
I told you That has got to be a mistake. :p:D
I'll still stand by my 55% carbs, mostly complex, 35% fat, "good fats", and 15% protein break down of total daily calories and saying 2400 calories may not be enough per day if wanting to maintain body wt. Depends on where you're at starting the 5 day.
TX Aggie
02-23-2017, 00:08
I told you That has got to be a mistake. :p:D
I'll still stand by my 55% carbs, mostly complex, 35% fat, "good fats", and 15% protein break down of total daily calories and saying 2400 calories may not be enough per day if wanting to maintain body wt. Depends on where you're at starting the 5 day.
Sounds like a very reasonable ratio.
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My 10 cents worth in brevity: If you carry too much food you're gonna be too tired to eat it. Drinking your calories is much easier. Two USN energy hydration drinks provide more than 1100 kj's if you drink 2 liters of water a day. Solids: the usual suspects like rolled oats, walnuts/pecan nuts, hard boiled sweets, salty crisps, crackers, pasta, spaghetti, noodles, shiitake mushrooms, instant soup is the way forward. (add soup and mushrooms to noodles/pasta/spaghetti and your calorie count increases dramatically) Too much coconut stuff can make you live in the bushes. Fatty stuff is best for cold conditions. Apparently after 10 days without meat your body perspires less. In days of old when German mountain climbers dominated the peaks they lived on barley soup. Lunch is continuous and begins directly after breakfast and ends shortly before supper. Supper can begin at anytime near a water source which will make your life much easier. All said and done, when the body is under stress it sometimes behaves like a pregnant women with unusual cravings that makes dietitians cringe.
garlic08
02-23-2017, 09:11
My 10 cents worth in brevity: If you carry too much food you're gonna be too tired to eat it. Drinking your calories is much easier. Two USN energy hydration drinks provide more than 1100 kj's if you drink 2 liters of water a day. Solids: the usual suspects like rolled oats, walnuts/pecan nuts, hard boiled sweets, salty crisps, crackers, pasta, spaghetti, noodles, shiitake mushrooms, instant soup is the way forward. (add soup and mushrooms to noodles/pasta/spaghetti and your calorie count increases dramatically) Too much coconut stuff can make you live in the bushes. Fatty stuff is best for cold conditions. Apparently after 10 days without meat your body perspires less. In days of old when German mountain climbers dominated the peaks they lived on barley soup. Lunch is continuous and begins directly after breakfast and ends shortly before supper. Supper can begin at anytime near a water source which will make your life much easier. All said and done, when the body is under stress it sometimes behaves like a pregnant women with unusual cravings that makes dietitians cringe.
I think we need more South Africans here--well said.
Five day trip, nobody's going to starve to death or die of malnutrition. You can eat what you want, or what you're willing to carry.
Expected temperatures should figure in your provisioning. In cold I crave chocolate and sweets. In heat I crave salty foods and am more concerned about hydration than about food.
Consider the mix of "snackables" vs. stuff that has to be cooked. When I backpack, I get by on one hot meal a day, sometimes not even that. The rest is handfuls of whatever, at random but frequent intervals throughout the day.
Can't go too far wrong with cheese, nuts, seeds, dried fruit, dark chocolate. For the omnivorous, there's also jerky, summer sausage, pepperoni, tuna, sardines, etc.
Foods I don't carry: protein powder, butter, oil, bread, anything in hard (glass, metal) containers needing secure caps/lids. That's just me. Everything travels in, at most, a ziploc or maybe double-ziploc'ed.
TX Aggie
02-23-2017, 10:03
What are the preferred fruits to take along? I can easily see apples, pears, maybe bananas. How about grapes and berries, can these be carries for a day or two without making a homemade jelly in your pack?
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illabelle
02-23-2017, 10:50
What are the preferred fruits to take along? I can easily see apples, pears, maybe bananas. How about grapes and berries, can these be carries for a day or two without making a homemade jelly in your pack?
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I've carried apples and oranges for a few days with good results. I carried bananas one time with so-so results. Personally I wouldn't attempt to carry grapes and berries without a hard-sided container. You could maybe put them in a cooking pot, or an unused wide-mouth water bottle. Or you could just go ahead and pick up some strawberry jam.
Fruit: Too many good dried fruits on store shelves to worry about fresh for more than overnight.
I was in Walmart this week. On one shelf I saw: bananas, apricots, apples, pears, peaches, blueberries, cherries, prunes, dates and probably a few more I forgot. Every nut and seed imaginable was on an adjacent shelf.
Look and Ye shall find.
Wayne
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nowak1981
02-24-2017, 18:14
Remember even in less desirable cal/oz or nutrient dense foods you can always amend to tweak both upwards.
R U repackaging all your foods? Packaging wt and packaged volume can demand extra package wt and possibly lifting you to require a larger volume hence heavier wt backpack. Rem,ever, going lighter can be attached from multiple fronts. Again, choose foods that densely pack.
I am repackaging quite a bit of food, a lot of it is already in the light weight individual serving packs anyway.
The current weight for the food on the first page is just under 6 lbs for 5 days, I agree that I could probably ditch some of the sugar for something a bit more healthy. I have a pretty narrow flavor palette, I wasnt raised on a lot of variety so a lot of the more nutritious items arent very tasty to me. I like mild cheddar cheese, I could take more of that and some crackers. maybe some summer sausage or pepperoni and ditch the Chex mix.
I've tried some dried pineapple and mango, I thought it was terrible. We do have that isle of nuts and berries as well, I may try some different fruits. Nuts are kind of the same boat, Almonds and macadamias are definitely off the list, I like peanuts and sunflower seeds in small quantities. I might be able to make at least one snack out of it, better then teddy grahams right?
Im actually considering hot chocolate and milk powder. I dont like to putz around in the morning though, just pack and go, but its probably better then a poptart. I will keep a couple a bags of gold fish for the ramen, they go pretty well together.
.
Its a lot to take in. I've read over these posts quite a few times and some of it still hasnt sunk in. Its gonna take a while to figure out where I need to be and what kinds of food I can be happy with.
A couple questions. It sounds like If im interested in losing some of the weight I can stay around the 2400 cal mark if not, I should be looking closer to 3k? What is a good limit on sugars?
I appreciate all the help!
Don't like oatmeal? Breakfast for me can be a 1/2 cup quick oats, a handful of dried fruit, chia seeds, nido powdered milk, walnuts or almonds and a packet of starbucks via in my cup. Stir with boiling water and eat with my spoon.
Krave jerkies are good. Hunger usually improves my selection of delectables.
Coucous? Pasta?
AfterParty
02-24-2017, 19:53
I like packet gormet meals I tried a package deal and most were better then MREs
Trader Joes has a decent diversity of dried fruits, nuts, and seeds to consider. I like their Dried Flattened Banana, Dried Blueberries, Dried No sugar added roasted coconut flake, Dried Peaches, and Salt and Pepper or Honey Sesame Cashews.
Sahale Pomegranate Vanilla Cashews are great Pricey but it's only a five day so it's just something to consider possibly as a treat rather than a staple.
Bare and Brothers have tasty Dried Apple Chip varieties.
You might consider dried mango comes in different versions. I think the no sugar added versions are plenty sweet enough just like roasted coconut flake(Not shredded stuff). You can get chile Lime, softer or chewier, etc Try whatever suits your fancy, At least dried fruits with no sugar added is the naturally occurring amounts and fructose from the fruit. Even so Dried fruits often can be high in sugar.
StealthHikerBoy
02-25-2017, 08:30
I've done this hike ... starting in Kolob. It is a great hike and you'll love it. If you go eastward the trail just gets better and better the entire time.
If you are worried about weight, it is really easy to set up a cache or two. The trail crosses an easily accessible road (with pit toilets) a couple of times before you get into Zion Canyon. If I had to do it again, I probably would have cached some water at these crossings, as the water source the second day in was downstream from some cattle grazing areas and I didn't want to take water there. I remember the trail being pretty dry from these road crossings all the way to Zion Canyon.
I got shuttled by the Zion Adventure company and they would have stopped at the cache sites if I asked them to.
Greenlight
02-25-2017, 12:05
When you're hiking, fat is fat. You're going to burn it all. There is no such thing as good fat or bad fat when you're as active as you'll be on the trail. Your ratios look pretty spot on. I was glancing down through nowak's list and my mind was busting in saying, "you might slather those poptarts with peanut butter" and "why don't you just eat a Snickers bar instead of piddling around with Teddy Grahams?" "When in doubt, more calories."
There's no shame in honey buns and cosmic brownies when you're burning them right off and they're not going to belly fat. With all that said, I'm still an advocate of healthy eating. I eat a lot of salads, fruit, vegetables, greens, mushrooms, onions, beans, peppers, etc. But when you are burning 6000 calories per day, you have to keep stuffing calories calories calories down your gullet. An apple isn't going to give you the energy that a honey bun will.
16 lb of food for a 5 day? Bet that's more wt in the consumable category than your Big 4 gear category. Prime example of why consumable wt is one of my hot button topics and why it needs to be given much greater consideration in wt saving. Good for you to know it too Nowak.
What's your timeframe for the traverse? I've done it twice but food and water wt was determined by things like season I did them.
Immediately some things arise are problems.
1) If you're going at it for long hrs 12-14 hrs with 5 min breaks 2400 cals isn't going to cut it energizing you being mindful that even though calories and cal/oz ratios are critical to your well being and goals it's also about nutrients which is a much wider appropriate nutritional and well being perspective.
2) 2400 cal/day intake with 50ish grams of protein has your diet consisting of 2000 cals from protein. That's got to be a mistake! Your way overloaded on total calories coming from protein particularly as you're looking to save food wt. Perhaps a better ratio is about 55% total calories from carbs, being mostly complex carbs not simple sugars or huge intakes of salt, 35% from fat, GOOD fats, and 15% from protein. I think this will have better nourished, have you increasing daily total caloric intake, AND lowering the food wt for the 5 day.
When you're hiking, fat is fat. You're going to burn it all. There is no such thing as good fat or bad fat when you're as active as you'll be on the trail... "When in doubt, more calories."...
I cringe at opinions like this. Yet, it's common among some in various hiking communities.
It is not what Michael Colgan from the Colgan Institute and a long list of nutritionists and MD's that I could ever post here conclude. Michael Colgan is one the world's most highly touted nutritionists having worked with more elite athletes including Olympic, Professional, like Lee Haney, Triathletes, and so many other categories of performance and well being oriented people and sports programs that could be listed here. He has worked for and personally with several friends and family members. The notion that just because one is so actively consuming calories one can eat anything they want including "bad fats" and nutritionally denuded "junk food" and it's all "burning off" with no consequences should be solidly debunked and avoided...IF you're interested in well being.
As important as calories and cal/oz ratios are they are not the be all end all of food, nutrition, performance, or energy efficiency even within the realm of high daily calorie usage activities such as backpacking. Even in elite athletic performance workouts and events such as those training for and competing in the Olympics, Iron Man Triathlons, professional strength competitions, and professional endurance sports where daily caloric needs can be as high as 10,000 cals + no one, as far as I know, is guzzling hydrogenated oils - trans fats - from margarine or as are often found as an ingredient in many junk foods such as "oh not so honey honey buns."
http://www.performanceworkouts.com/workouts_articles_fatedge.shtml
Please read Human Destruction of Essential Fats, Trans Fats are Deadly, and Use Only Unprocessed Oils if you do no other reading or researching of bad fats, such as hydrogenated oils.
Folks may also want to review Nutritionist and hiker Brenda Braaten's thru-hiker diet recommendations to avoid high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated oils. She did a nice study of LD hiker nutritional needs.
Greenlight
02-26-2017, 08:39
Thanks for the effort you put into responding, Dogwood. Yeah, I get you on the hydrogenated oils bit, but my point isn't as subtle as yours. Again, I stated that I eat healthy when I can, and when I'm not hiking. But it isn't so much that a thru-hiker can eat whatever they want, it is that they are often left with few alternatives but to eat what is available. I'm focusing more on energy. I could have gone further and talked about eating the right thing at the right time, but didn't. Braaten's work is partially what I refer to in my op:
If the best way to boost your muscles’ glycogen stores during a thru-hike is to make sure you are carrying and eating enough fat, then an ideal thru-hiker diet would eliminate all of those pesky carbs, and include the highest fat food available, right?
Not so fast, says Dr. Braaten: “The body will prefer to use protein to rebuild muscle, but it will prefer to use carbs to refuel muscles.” A hiker’s body will start to replenish its glycogen stores within the muscles 30 minutes after each meal. “We’re not growing muscles, we’re feeding muscles,” says Dr. Braaten. When you’re resting, your body is busy replenishing the starch stores within your muscles. This means that the ideal hiker food, one that balances a high-carb (to refuel your muscles), high-fat (to burn as pure energy as you hike) load, really is that bane of the frontcountry: junk food. High-fat and high-sugar foods, even processed ones, turn out to be great fuel sources, ones your body will rapidly transform into energy. But making sure that you’re not overly emphasizing fat over carbs, or vice versa turns out to be an important factor in maintaining energy levels: “Junk food is great, but it needs to be balanced junk food,” says Dr. Braaten.
I cringe at opinions like this. Yet, it's common among some in various hiking communities.
It is not what Michael Colgan from the Colgan Institute and a long list of nutritionists and MD's that I could ever post here conclude. Michael Colgan is one the world's most highly touted nutritionists having worked with more elite athletes including Olympic, Professional, like Lee Haney, Triathletes, and so many other categories of performance and well being oriented people and sports programs that could be listed here. He has worked for and personally with several friends and family members. The notion that just because one is so actively consuming calories one can eat anything they want including "bad fats" and nutritionally denuded "junk food" and it's all "burning off" with no consequences should be solidly debunked and avoided...IF you're interested in well being.
As important as calories and cal/oz ratios are they are not the be all end all of food, nutrition, performance, or energy efficiency even within the realm of high daily calorie usage activities such as backpacking. Even in elite athletic performance workouts and events such as those training for and competing in the Olympics, Iron Man Triathlons, professional strength competitions, and professional endurance sports where daily caloric needs can be as high as 10,000 cals + no one, as far as I know, is guzzling hydrogenated oils - trans fats - from margarine or as are often found as an ingredient in many junk foods such as "oh not so honey honey buns."
http://www.performanceworkouts.com/workouts_articles_fatedge.shtml
Please read Human Destruction of Essential Fats, Trans Fats are Deadly, and Use Only Unprocessed Oils if you do no other reading or researching of bad fats, such as hydrogenated oils.
Folks may also want to review Nutritionist and hiker Brenda Braaten's thru-hiker diet recommendations to avoid high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated oils. She did a nice study of LD hiker nutritional needs.
whyamihere
02-26-2017, 16:37
I cringe at opinions like this. Yet, it's common among some in various hiking communities.
It is not what Michael Colgan from the Colgan Institute and a long list of nutritionists and MD's that I could ever post here conclude. Michael Colgan is one the world's most highly touted nutritionists having worked with more elite athletes including Olympic, Professional, like Lee Haney, Triathletes, and so many other categories of performance and well being oriented people and sports programs that could be listed here. He has worked for and personally with several friends and family members. The notion that just because one is so actively consuming calories one can eat anything they want including "bad fats" and nutritionally denuded "junk food" and it's all "burning off" with no consequences should be solidly debunked and avoided...IF you're interested in well being.
As important as calories and cal/oz ratios are they are not the be all end all of food, nutrition, performance, or energy efficiency even within the realm of high daily calorie usage activities such as backpacking. Even in elite athletic performance workouts and events such as those training for and competing in the Olympics, Iron Man Triathlons, professional strength competitions, and professional endurance sports where daily caloric needs can be as high as 10,000 cals + no one, as far as I know, is guzzling hydrogenated oils - trans fats - from margarine or as are often found as an ingredient in many junk foods such as "oh not so honey honey buns."
http://www.performanceworkouts.com/workouts_articles_fatedge.shtml
Please read Human Destruction of Essential Fats, Trans Fats are Deadly, and Use Only Unprocessed Oils if you do no other reading or researching of bad fats, such as hydrogenated oils.
Folks may also want to review Nutritionist and hiker Brenda Braaten's thru-hiker diet recommendations to avoid high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated oils. She did a nice study of LD hiker nutritional needs.
That's a great article Dogwood, thanks.
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Thank you Greenlight for taking the time too...that's the second time I came at you about food and you made the effort to at least take what was offered in context whether you agree, disagree, or are at a wait and lets's see about some aspects position. I like so much for the give and take, having a discussion where we're willing to hear each other out fully, rather than talking at each other. That was a great excerpt from Brenda Braaten's site. It lets me know where you're coming from and lends support to your post. YEAH. It wasn't that hard either. Ahhhh. :)
nowak1981
02-28-2017, 19:09
I went to Trader Joes and Whole foods yesterday. I went through the nuts and fruits isles, but I didnt find much appetizing. I picked up a few pieces of natural pineapple. They were ok, I could eat them if I really had too. I found some Natural Strawberries which I havent tried yet, and some natural strawberry rhubarb pieces which didnt really appeal to me either.
The nuts sections had your typical variety, none of which I cared for. I do, however, like peanuts and sunflower seeds. I figured I can make a mix with those, some m&m's, raisins and some Orange flavored Cranberries I found at Whole foods. I've made this mix before not sure how I forgot about it.
I also picked up a block of mild cheddar cheese, not sure about it though. I havent tried it yet, but I'm not interested in bringing an additional knife to cut it and having to stop for a long period of time to do it. Also not sure how it will fare in the top of the pack if I will need to get to it constantly. I am considering Land O' Lakes Mild or Medium Cheddar Snacks. They are individually wrapped and I can keep a few in my cargo pocket away from body heat and readily accessible.
I've also been looking for some kind of Summer Sausage or Deer sausage, maybe even a salami. Kind of in the same boat here too. Since Im not gonna be out for a long period of time, I wonder if can I precut this and wrap it up. I suppose I could stick with pepperoni's, but a nice deer sausage would be awesome.
Also, does anyone have any suggestions for regular red pasta sauce? I dont need much, a mayo packet size or 2 would be plenty.
I appreciate all the help
If you hike far enough and fast enough you might decide that you can & will eat anything.
I'm picky about a few things, Tuna & Knoor Sides, but most of the time I'm like Mikey "He will eat anything."
You can cut up cheese at home and place a few pieces in Ziplock Snack bags. Cabot Alpine Cheddar is a white cheddar (yes, they make white) and very mild.
I'm not wild about summer sausage or salami, but I enjoy the Hormel Real Bacon Bits or precooked bacon and breakfast sausage.
Good luck with your diet.
Wayne
H I T C H
02-28-2017, 20:37
Nowak it looks like your total protein is around 10% and it is weighted so as there is not much protein in your breakfasts.
I am curious if this is intentional.
I like to have a moderate amount of protein in my breakfasts.
I am usually hungry in the morning, and I think that it satiated me.
Hitch
swjohnsey
02-28-2017, 21:30
You ought to be able to get by on 2lb/day around 3,000 calories. Aim for 100 calories/oz. Fat is your friend, 9 calories/gram compared to 4/gram for carbs and protein.
swisscross
02-28-2017, 21:50
It is only 5 days. Eat what you know you like.
No matter what you choose you most likely will only lose a couple of lbs at best.
I actually do not very hungry for the first few days. You will more than likely come home with extra food.
don't over think this.
have a great hike.
I am taking my family to Zion this summer. Oh how I wish I was camping!